By Doug “Uncola” Lynn via TheBurningPlatform.com
Over the weekend, I was where I needed to pass some time and thought an early afternoon matinee would do the trick. Although I was not overly enthused to see any of the films currently showing, I chose to see “Unplanned“. Mainly because the title seemed apropos just then and the movie’s starting time fit my schedule. Moreover, it looked to be a political film about the controversial subject of abortion and was, in fact, based on a true story.
The tale told of the life and times of Abby Johnson, a headstrong young lady from Texas who became one of the youngest Planned Parenthood clinic directors in the United States. She resigned in 2009 after seeing a fetus at 13 weeks gestation recoil in pain during an ultrasound-guided vacuum aspiration abortion.
The film portrayed the abortion industry, as exactly that, an industry whereby Planned Parenthood profited most from procedures terminating pregnancies; even to the point of demanding quotas from its clinics. Furthermore, distinct and contrasting parallels were drawn between those who believed they were advocating on behalf of women’s rights with those who believed life began at conception.
In fact, the ideological boundaries in the film were literally, and figuratively, defined by an iron-barred fence standing just beyond the Planned Parenthood clinic doors in Bryan, Texas; a line of separation, as it were, between the near-medieval Mengele-like procedures inside and the loud protestations and prayers of the pro-life activists standing on the outside.
Here are five insights gleaned from the film:
1.) Our worldview is determined by what we think we see
In a recent article regarding “movies in the mind”, I wrote the following:
In every circumstance, our personal perceptions of identity are derived from the stories we tell ourselves. Of course, some of the narration may have originated from external sources but the feedback loops don’t become part our identity until we accept them readily into our ongoing internal dialogue…
Stories can bind or tear apart. They can soothe or roil individual relations, families, societies, and nations….
The stories in our heads play as movies in our minds; even to the point of framing our very identities.
And nowhere was this more evidently displayed than in the movie “Unplanned”, which was based upon Abby Johnson’s book of the same name about real people and events. Both her parents and husband did not approve of her career choice, primarily, because they believed babies were ordained by God in the womb. Actually, during the film, the audience saw Johnson’s family attending church together while hearing the pastor quote the Bible’s Psalm 139:13 as follows:
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
At that time, Abby didn’t see that conception (pun intended). Instead, like most women’s rights advocates, she saw a fetus as merely a lump of cells, like a tumor sewn together by chance, with no value and feeling no pain when removed from the uterus.
Seeing is believing, and once we accept what we think we see, then that frame of reference becomes another allegorical bar in the metaphorical iron fence that defines, and defends, our worldview.
Decades before Donald Trump ever took the political stage, way before weapons of mass destruction or the stained-blue dress – abortion has divided America in two. It’s because people on both sides of the proverbial fence are seeing, and therefore believing, separate ideas.
Did God create humanity or did we evolve from the muck? Is a fetus a human baby or an exponentially accelerating mass of corpuscles? Whatever one sees will determine a specific ranking of internalized priorities and, in turn, also regulate each priority’s merit, or importance, or value.
2.) Our values derive from our worldview
Ethics are foundational to organizing society, just as morals are to a group or community, and as values define relationships. Each contain intrinsic principles paired to a scale. If values are determined, and ranked, by what individuals consider as most important – then these, most certainly, are sorted according to the stories we see in our heads; by our worldview.
Consider, as an example, the principle of honesty. If any accord is to be attained on honesty between individuals, then each party must value facts over falsehoods. This means they place a higher preference for truth above lies and, in so doing, the accord between the individuals would be determined as follows:
BEST: Both parties placing a higher priority on honesty/facts/truth
WORSE: One party placing a higher priority on honesty/facts/truth
WORST: Both parties placing a low priority on honesty/facts/truth
Between individuals, this scale of accord would determine the harmony of relationships; which, in turn, would translate into a moral code for a group or community, and, ultimately, a code of ethics for organizing society. Framed another way, the failures of accord in values might be identified as mistakes or insults or aggressions between individuals which could be perceived as crimes within the moral code of a given group and, even, the origins for warfare at the societal level.
All of which begins with value judgments determined by worldview.
In the film “Unplanned”, there are individuals who value what they perceive as children’s lives over convenience and others who value personal freedom over what they perceive as clumped-together cells.
For those who value life as something divinely-ordained, what God has clumped-together, let no man place asunder. If God is in charge, then the practical decision would be to set aside convenience and express one’s faith by trusting the divine plan; thus allowing the spirit of providence to turn the lemons of unplanned pregnancies into the lemonade of blessings in this life for the child, its mother, and/or the adoptive parents.
However, for those placing individual volition over unexpected tumors, the undeniable hassles of prenatal and neonatal aggravations, as well as the inconvenience of parental obligations – make abortions just plain more pragmatic. A little cash and, after a few hours at the clinic, life goes on. Certainly, for those peering through the fence and seeing a random universe, efficient practically represents the highest of ideals, does it not?
In any event, for those standing on either side of the figurative fence in the abortion debate: The end justifies the means.
3.) There are two sides to every story
—-SPOILERS AHEAD—-
In the narrative of her life, Abby Johnson revealed she had two abortions prior to volunteering at Planned Parenthood. One during college after a fling with the wrong guy and another after she married the same wrong guy against her parents wishes. Fortunately, for her, she later met the right guy who loved her unequivocally despite his disapproval of abortion in general and, specifically, his wife’s involvement with Planned Parenthood.
Now this guy was a real gem. He was patient, loving, God-fearing, and good for Abby. When she later became pregnant, the clinic director at the time expressed concerns a baby might interfere with Abby’s career and casually suggested that Abby should let the clinic “take care of it”. But Abby wanted to have the child. After all, she had a home now, a great husband, and her career. It was the right time.
Of course, the cold-as-ice clinic director’s instincts turned out to be valid as motherhood did, ultimately, affect Abby’s worldview. So much so, that later in the film, after Abby’s conversion from clinic director to pro-life advocate, she stood outside of the fence at the clinic and persuaded a young girl to keep her baby. Abby explained to the confused girl that she was once the clinic director there and what would happen once the young woman walked through the doors. First, the staff would do an ultrasound but they wouldn’t show it to the girl because they didn’t want to her to see her baby. The reason for the ultrasound was to measure the head of the baby so the staff could use the measurements in order to set the price for the procedure.
Naturally, that information would be enough to deter the faintest of hearts and the girl quickly exited the clinic grounds. Just then, the viewers saw the actress playing Abby smiling gratefully as the girl behind her, now on the other side of the fence, hurriedly drove away.
For those who are pro-life, it was, no doubt, a profound and touching scene. Yet, for those remaining inside the fence, they would judge Abby a hypocrite. After all, she benefitted from the convenience of two abortions which allowed her the opportunity to get her life settled before the birth of her daughter. Yet, through persuasion, Abby denied that same convenience and opportunity to the confused young girl who then hastily retreated from the clinic grounds.
Undoubtedly, some viewers will wonder if Abby Johnson HAD given birth to her two aborted children, would she have finished college? Would her current and wonderful husband have been as interested in Abby had she been tugging two tykes in tow? Or knowing she gave them up for adoption?
Surely, in the minds of the “Unplanned” movie’s audience, the answers to those hypothetical questions will be determined by #’s 1 and 2 above.
4.) People have an infinite ability to rationalize anything
In psychoanalytical theory, “rationalization” is a cognitive defense mechanism against guilt. Or, for any parents who might be reading this, they may prefer the word “excuse”; although this blogger calls it “tortured logic” instead.
Generally, it tends to occur as follows:
Someone says: “I know this is wrong, or, at the very least, not right, but…” – and whatever comes next will be the (take your pick) rationalization, excuse, or tortured logic.
In “Unplanned”, Abby realizes while on the way to get her first abortion, she could not tell her Mom. Perhaps she’s even doing her mother a favor by not telling her. But, in the aftermath of a very unpleasant experience at the clinic where she terminated her first pregnancy, Abby commented in the film’s narration something similar to as follows (paraphrased): “Never do anything that you can’t tell your mom.”
Later, upon realizing she was pregnant for the second time, Abby opted for what she was told would be the “more private” option of terminating her pregnancy – by taking pills. She followed the clinic instructions, lay down on her bed at home, and mentally prepared herself for some mild discomfort. In this blogger’s opinion, what transpired onscreen next surpassed the “shower scene” in Alfred Hitchcock’s “Psycho”.
Yet, in spite of the devastatingly horrible experiences in terminating her two pregnancies, Abby later promoted the same procedures to other women; even lying at times and pressuring pre-teen and teen girls to have abortions. She did this while telling herself, and her family, it was all for the greater good.
In watching the events of “Unplanned” unreel, the rationalizations did, indeed, seem unreal, and I found myself considering, once again, the 1960s obedience experiments of social psychologist Stanley Milgram, including a 2017 article I wrote (in part) on Milgram entitled: “The ‘Experimenter’: Understanding Why Shit Happens and How Conformity Kills”. The closing lines of this article were as follows:
To understand the future we must look to the past. History repeats, thus, ignorance is no excuse. Multiple illustrations over the last century demonstrate how it often became fashionable for people to blindly submit to authority, or conform to group influence, instead of accepting the evidence of their own minds. This is, after all, how shit happens.
In his experiments, Milgram wanted to research how mass murder could be institutionalized; like manufacturing appliances. He described what he called an “Agentic State” whereby people become alienated from their own actions once they submit to authority. He also identified the “Agentic Mind”, which values obedience over common sense and/or compassion.
In “Unplanned”, the women were perpetually gullible – including those seeking abortions who blindly accepted what they were told in spite of their instincts; those who were never offered or cared to explore other options; those on the clinic staff who, after a day of terminating pregnancies, held a joyous baby shower for Abby after the doors were locked, and Abby herself who lied to her own daughter about the bloodstains on mom’s tennis shoes.
Overall, the film was a great reminder regarding the power of rationalization.
They did what they had to do. They believed the greater good was being served. They were told it was all okay.
5.) The Banality of Practicality is Progressive
It was interesting to hear Planned Parenthood’s biggest benefactors named in the film as “Soros, Gates, and Buffet”. Of course these “philanthropists” can take credit aiding and abetting the lifestyle choices and convenience of young women, while, at the same time, slowing the population growth of an entire generation of useless eaters.
It’s a no-brainer. One person’s eugenics is another’s pragmatism, right?
Yet, just as the film revealed Abby Johnson’s progression from a volunteer greeter, to pregnancy counselor, to a full-blown abortion advocate – so, too, have we witnessed the advancement play out on the societal stage. From “The Pill” to morning-after pills, from early-term to late-term abortions, and, finally, to post-birth procedures. The practicality marches onward and with all the excitement and deliberation of another day at the office.
In other words, we’ve transitioned from girls desperately and dangerously self-mutilating with coat hangers in gas-station bathrooms, to doctors positioning vacuum-attached cannulas via ultrasound and saying (like shown in the film) “Beam me up, Scotty” as wombs are emptied. In years prior, the fetal waste was eliminated in blue plastic drums but, now, the body parts are sold for purposes of medical research and advancement.
Obviously, there’s been a progression. But toward what end? History proves that perceived practicality is often birthed upon slippery slopes.
Ultimately, however, who decides?
Conclusion
Overall, in the experience of this blogger, Christian films have often had a “campy” presentation, with weak scripts and poor acting. Unless, that is, they are developed by the likes of Mel Gibson or other seasoned film producers and directors overseeing Hollywood-sized budgets. But “Unplanned” is, for the most part, a well-made film. I said “for the most part” because the legal denouement and courthouse drama at the end seemed somewhat contrived; elevating the “cheese” factor considerably – which is not to say it didn’t happen that way.
Regardless, the film currently has a whopping 94% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes and this is, quite likely, because the film plays to directly its base. Critics haven’t been kind to the movie, however, and television networks have refused to run ads for the film due to “its sensitive nature”. Several major music labels including Disney, Universal Music, Sony/ATV and Round Hill Music refused to license “mainstream music” for the film as well.
It will be interesting to see if word-of-mouth will give “Unplanned” legs over the next several weeks, or if the “wholesome” demographic will avoid the film; just as some Christian radio channels have refused to air ads for the movie because of its R rating.
In the meantime, Planned Parenthood released the following statement about “Unplanned”:
The claims in this film are simply false. Planned Parenthood is proud to provide expert, high-quality health care to our patients, including safe and legal abortion, in a safe and compassionate environment. The movie promotes many falsehoods including most importantly, distortions and incorrect depictions about healthcare.
Accordingly, in the city where I saw the film, Planned Parenthood purchased billboards, as well, that said: “Abortion is healthcare.”
Only time will tell if Planned Parenthood’s seemingly defensive assertions will withstand this film; because global social movements have been started over less. Paradoxically, the Planned Parenthood clinic in Bryan–College Station, Texas where Abby Johnson worked is now the headquarters for “40 Days for Life”, an international pro-life advocacy group.
To be sure, there are those who will claim Abby Johnson’s conversion, her book, and movie, eventuated as the result of prayer.
Others, however, will say:
It’s important that abortion remain safe and legal for women.
Certainly, those standing on either side of the fence in the abortion debate will remain divided by #’s 1 and 2 above.
Excellent article. Abortion is the greatest genocide to inflict humanity, making the atrocities committed by Mao, Stalin, and Hitler look pale.
Almost 900,000 abortions in the USA in 2018. Yet we “need” to catch and release a million illegals into the country because of our “declining” birthrates… Chip
You are catching on, Chipper. I’ve been saying for quite a while that the so-called white genocide is self-inflicted.
Please don’t inflict humanity on us.
I was making a joke. Ordinarily, I would just have corrected him with – afflict. Morons.
For those who do not think that life begins at conception, I will say that without conception there is no life. Now figure that one out.
At conception, the fetus now has the all the genetic material that makes it a human. All it now needs is food, water, and shelter – things you will need for the rest of your life.
Someone told me they weren’t really alive because they can’t survive on their own.
When I said the same thing was true for his 8 year old daughter, he had to agree that his daughter wasn’t really alive. I can’t wrap my head around that logic.
That’s the power of rationalization right there. But the spell is broken when it becomes personal; like the proverbial shoe placed on the other foot.
You can’t have an honest discussion about the issue without first establishing the foundational truth about why abortion exists. It exists because women now have complete agency in our society and have been granted political equality with men.
Women exist primarily in an emotive state whereby their decisions are not reliant on logic and reason as the first order, but on how they feel about the decisions they make. It’s why so many of them wound up pregnant to begin with; because they were incapable of using the required logic to prevent pregnancy. And by extension abortion was always sold as justified because it’s necessity was built around the lies of rape, incest and threat to the health of the mother. Everyone with even a glimmer of human intelligence understands that those fig leaves have never been the bulk of abortions, but the tiniest of fractions. If those were the reasons behind the move for legalization it would have been included in the language of the law, but that wasn’t the case. And behind it all is the mythology of the nurturing nature of women which is largely a complete fiction. More American lives have ended at the hands of women in the past 50 years than in all the violent crimes and military actions of men and no one whispers so much as a word of this truth. The complete silencing or obfuscation of truth is the basis for everything that followed. The fruit of the poisoned tree is something women have always been central in promulgating.
In every single argument or justification put forth in order to support this practice there is a a foundation of lies required to maintain the illusion. If Planned Parenthood were in the parenthood planning business, they’d spend far more of their time and efforts in actually helping plan families none of which would exist without children.
Sadly the purpose of abortion as much as it appears to be about murder of fetuses is in fact a softening of the ground for the following steps in a totalitarian state; the mass murder of political and social enemies of The State. We’re now entering that phase of history.
Buckle up.
“It’s why so many of them wound up pregnant to begin with; because they were incapable of using the required logic to prevent pregnancy.”
Logic rarely prevents pregnancy, but penises staying in pants sometimes helps as well.
Of course, the path humanity is on has a whole new set of guide posts. Penises and vaginas are interchangeable with rectums… it is all the same to a she bitch he woman.
Has “She Bitch He Woman” been mined for its meme-orabilia?
Are you making the claim that women are incapable of keeping penises out of their vagina? Even the most unimaginative people can figure out a solution that doesn’t have that outcome as a requirement.
Women either have agency or they do not. They either make the decisions about what they want to do with their own body or they do not. There is precisely one way in which a women can become pregnant and that requires an egg- inside their uterus- to become fertilized by sperm. That’s the logic part.
My comment earlier stemmed from a discussion my husband and I had regarding parental techniques in the olden days of yore. My briefing was strange, given by my father due to the extenuating circumstance of my older sister coming up pregnant and not wanting to get married. Since I was three years younger, it seemed logical to explain to me why I was becoming an aunt before I became a sister-in-law. I was nobody’s fool, but those kind of situations were rare in the 1970s in the community in which I was reared. People who got pregnant got married and tried to stay that way, or so it seemed.
My husband said his father told him to keep it in his pants until he got married. I asked Poppa Grooch about that one time… he laughed and admitted he and “Ma” moved in together while he was still in the US Marines in Florida. I was shocked.
My mother was the daughter of a sharecropper and his second-cousin, whom I called Granny Fannie. Mom was the middle daughter of five daughters and she had six brothers, one of whom died of polio when he was 14. Polio was and is a terrible disease. Someone should have eradicated it while they had the chance, if they actually had such a chance.
So, my Granny Fannie, who married her second cousin Elsie when they were fourteen years old had eleven children that lived beyond childbirth. I will warn you that I do, indeed, have a photo with them all in Sunday best dress with my mother and her younger sisters in dresses made of old flour sacks, barefoot.
I adored Granny Fannie, who lived on some sort of survivor’s pension LBJ discovered widows like her were “ENTITLED” to in this country. Everyone called any kind of government check “The Welfare” in those days and was ashamed of getting it. So, we tried to hide the fact that my grandmother qualified for the little book of food stamps that arrived each month in the mail along with her government check, which I would take to the bank for her if it arrived while I was visiting. In the summertime, I was allowed to walk “uptown” to the post office to get her mail and go to the grocery store. If the envelope contained a book of food stamps, I was allowed to open the envelope and buy myself a soda and a candy bar using one of the funny money paper dollars. The “one” dollar notes were especially valuable because the change returned was in real silver, nickel and copper coinage.
She also got big blocks of government cheese that everyone loved and now you can’t find anywhere. Any thing that resembles it has some sort of “cheese food products” in it and a warning that it might actually contain whey or milk. But that is how I digress and why I must not.
Granny Fannie, whose hair was old lady blue when I met her was the kind of old lady one laughs at and loves to be around when the adults are out of the room. She rolled her eyes and spoke truth to children. I expected a frank response when I asked her why so many kids. Eleven seemed a bit too many to my 12-year-old mind, since I was the youngest of four children recently introduced to the idea that a woman had a right to CHOOSE.
Granny had one of those aluminum frame kitchen tables and chairs that sat in the middle of the kitchen between the refrigerator and the stove. We were sitting there having biscuits and gravy and sausage and bacon and eggs and probably a few pancakes, as well, because the family needed some food to give them energy to do all the work required to feed the family.
Breakfast was a real meal once upon a time, not a couple of poptarts in a package. It was treated like a family meal. No matter what, when Granny tapped the breakfast bell signalling it was time to give thanks, and everyone shut up and bowed their heads. And one of the kids might be asked to actually say the blessing, so you’d better have an idea of what you were thankful for and mention it if asked.
After prayers that morning, I asked her why she’d had so many kids.
Without missing a beat, she said she’d gotten married at 14 and had three kids before she got up the nerve to ask the midwife exactly what was causing it.
“But, Granny! You had eight more kids after that!”
Granny grinned and leaned toward me over the corner of the table, signaling she was about to say something she thought was funny and my mother would not want to hear. It is a secret, the signal said silently, just between me and you.
“Well, me and your Grandpa Elsie liked doing it and didn’t want to stop.”
She was a hoot. I adored her. She died my senior year of high school. 1980.
My maternal grandparents descended from Irish immigrants. There seemed to be a need to have as many children as they could have as quickly as possible to help with the chores and the other children. I don’t think either of them would have considered abortion to be logical, even though it might have been practical.
My husband’s parents were of Italian immigrant neighborhoods. They always got married if someone got pregnant. Most of them stayed that way.
My remark about penises and vaginas being interchangeable was a reaction to a disgusting story I heard on the radio during my recent last road trip ever. Someone is petitioning to give hormones to their seven-year-old child and turn him into the girl he wants to become. He is seven. WTF? The ability to mutilate and destroy one’s child should end at some point, shouldn’t it?
I apologize for not replying earlier but I didn’t want to post and expect to edit because I’ve discovered sometimes I have the “edit” button when I post and sometimes I do not. I didn’t want to leave another semi-coherent comment stranded like a dangling participle. Hopefully, this one will come together and I can edit it for a minute or two and clean it up.
Out here in the suburbs of the sticks we have a veterinarian lady who makes house calls. She came to help me with a little nanny goat who needed some on sight care. She also petted my big dogs for a few minutes and suggested a couple things for the hip problems. She showed up a half hour early while I was trying to write this comment. I hope I have managed to make this into a reasonable response, but if not, at least I know I tried.
[I really do need to consolidate the various email accounts I have and get rid of the ones I don’t want to use. That is why the ghost is still in the machine and why I sometimes lose track of what I’m trying to say.]
Simon, the pig of a goat I sent to live with Boer goats has managed to impregnate a couple of them. He must have stood on a tree stump. Life will indeed find a way and so will a horny old goat who should have gotten banded when they had the chance.
Good to know the breast reduction has not affected D-Squared intellectual abilities.
You are one of the better writers on this site. You posts always draw me in even when you’re off your meds.
farmer,
which one do you mean is off their meds,dd or ec?
D-Squared is off her rocker. I’m a stable genius.
Does DD stand for deliriously distracted?
It’s actually a good story. A real-life petticoat junction kind of tale. Maggie had that kind of upbringing and those stories ought to be more frequent. Unfortunately, she goes off her meds from time to time and rambles on about less important things like AWACs.
Her cousin is pretty hot.
I almost went and dug up an old picture of me, at 14, knee deep in a bog with a catfish in hand because my father said if I would get in there and catch that fish he would take my picture.
Almost. I’m still praying for those miracles. Still shutting up and still not being bitchy.
I have not yet finished the piece so do not want to read or comment further. I have a lame goat I must tend… there is a limit to what I could possibly expect a helpmeet to have to do in spite of that better or worse vow.
Could you give a longer answer?
No. The ghost is back in the machine.
I do appreciate the nod, farmer, but a lot happened and while there were meds involved for a long time and a lot of really surreal visitations, I do see clearer now but have determined it is best I stay in first person most of the time.
I’m one of those people who can get lost quite easily on the way to the house that jack built. Fortunately, I married well. As you seemed to have done.
Sure makes life a hell of a lot easier than the alternatives.
If my hardworking husband fell off one of the branches he has cleared this year I’d be dead. And if he did not.want.to do it he could be a wealthy widower with a nice log home. No One would know.
Umm, there is this thing called rape, it results in the woman being unable to keep a penis out of her vagina.
Rape is a crime. And we already addressed the issue by pointing out it is a statistical anomaly rather than the rule. 32K rape related pregnancies vs. 1.3 million abortions annually. And the proper response to that is to take the morning after pill at the same time you report the rape, so the odds of even needing an abortion would drop close to zero.
And I’d be perfectly happy with a mandatory death penalty for rapists, so we could probably get those numbers down significantly.
But this is the kind of mental gymnastics that one must do every single time this topic is addressed when the much greater horror is a society feeling completely comfortable with ending the lives of millions upon millions of viable fetuses that are the result of a women’s choice to do what she wants with her body.
My 11 year old had a keen observation. He heard a pro abortion argument that refered to the fetus as “a collection of cells”. “But that’s what we are,” he said.
He’s right, you know.
It’s a collection of cells which, for quite a while, can’t live independently of their “host”.
Again, all the time on TBP people complain about freeloaders, and yet… 😉
I read a finely written piece of scientific material written by one of the Bio Science department head at OU back in my day, which was after Barry Switzer was ridden out on a rail for getting caught doing what we all knew they do even before Brian Bosworth sold T-shirts emblazened with I HATE THE BOZ on them at Sooner away games. So about Dr. Thompson who was the Genetics class professor who assigned the essay about the blastula stage of the embryo. That research led me to one of the most brilliant minds I encountered in Genetics. His thinking was that hard science just exists and that it does not need value judgments limiting its use and application. For a time, I looked at the topic through his viewpoint to earn an “A” and learn something worth knowing. I did, but won’t discuss it here because we all know why folks get banned for talking about DNA and the facts related to Watson and Crick’s discovery.
So, he responded to my questions with long written comments on my essays I treasure still. It is a gift to a writer to have a fine writer take a moment and put an actual pen to paper. And when it is a brilliant mind with no agenda other than to see what I could come up with to entertain him, he really read my papers and let me know he’d done so as a “reward.” (I wanted the A to get that albatross of a GPA from my freshman year at pony keg u up past a 3.0. I didn’t need Brownie points, nor did I need to maintain more than a C average to keep my GI scholarship.) The professor knew I was not going to be applying to medical school or the nursing college, which included most of the other students in the lecture hall. On the day of the MSATS, there were five of us there. I was a journalism student, the other four were not ready to take the MSATS yet. The other 150 students came in the next day looking like they’d all been rode hard and put away wet.
He was a man of few words He gave a dry lecture on what he expected in the five page and no more essays he assigned in the syllabus. He explained how to write to impress him. His lectures were useful and interesting, but only if you’d done the assigned reading. Which, of course, any idiot could do back in the day before reading was fundamental with capital FUN.
He suggested writing exactly what we wanted to say to him on the final exam in a way that would suggest we learned something of value from him. Then, he said, take out all the words that do not need to be there. Five pages with at least a 250 word summary paragraph at the end. He assigned one of those each week, along with a quiz on Fridays and the usual mid-term and final, which I managed to avoid with a 92.8% final grade. It was a really difficult class but it was the weeding out class for the OU Medical School wanna-be doctors, nurses and medical professionals. There was a waiting list for the class but Dr. Thompson let me into his class because I was a veteran and an older student and even though I didn’t have the background and he expected me to drop out after the first week or so I didn’t and he respected that.
I remember one thing he said to me in his office regarding the ethics of manipulating DNA in the womb. He said, “As a scientist I want to know if a thing can be done and then the best method to do it established by research and data. That is what the medical community needs to know. Whether a thing SHOULD be done is up to the social scientists and the politicians.”
I don’t know if he was right but I do know what he meant. I got one of the few “real” A grades. He had an interesting curve that had to do with the standard deviation of the class. I was an Outlier.
To the ‘mygirl’ posting here…Um, whoever you are….you aren’t me so…GFY
Dad: The mill’s closed. There’s no more work. We’re destitute. I’ve got no option but to sell you all for scientific experiments.
[The children protest and cry]
Dad: That’s the way it is my loves. Blame the Catholic Church for not letting me wear one of those little rubber things. Oh, they’ve done some wonderful things in their time. They preserved the might and majesty, even the mystery, of the Church of Rome, the sanctity of the sacrament, and the indivisible oneness of the Trinity. But if they’d let me wear one of those little rubber things on the end of my cock, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are now….
DAD: So, you see my problem, little ones: I can’t keep you all here any longer.
GIRL: Speak up!
DAD: I can’t keep you all here any longer! God has blessed us so much, I can’t afford to feed you anymore.
NIGEL: Couldn’t you have your balls cut off?
DAD: Hohh, it’s not as simple as that, Nigel. God knows all! He’d see through such a cheap trick. What we do to ourselves, we do to Him.
GIRL: You could have had them pulled off in an accident.
CHILDREN: [talking]
DAD: No. No, children. I know you’re trying to help, but, believe me,…
CHILDREN: Ohh…
DAD: …me mind’s made up. I’ve given this long and careful thought, and it has to be medical experiments for the lot of you.
CHILDREN: Ohh. Oh. Oh…
Rectum? It nearly killed him.
If you are referring to my mention of the rectum, above, I was making reference to a comment from a he woman she bitch that the front hole and the back hole were equal in sexual accommodation.
I don’t really believe they are equal. I think it is unsanitary and disgusting.
i agree anon, especially when she’s on the rag–
GV, I’m confoosed. Do you have a wife (beard)?
I would add that alot of men also cheerleaded for abortions. They didn’t want to be fathers, they hooked up and didn’t bother with protection either often times. My father wanted me aborted, but my mother at age 19 just out of HS refused over and over again. Her parents backed her up as staunch religious folks and said they would support her and the baby (me) regardless of what happened. Her emotional attachment to her future baby is what kept me alive. If it was for practicality reasons, having me made no real sense, the relationship with my father was a high-school sweetheart deal that was already flaming out when I was in the womb.
So although I agree that women in general, the hardcore feminist types have pushed abortion, a goodly amount of young men looked the other way, or actively pushed for abortions. I know of many cases from family/people I’ve met where the man wanted the woman to have an abortion, but the woman refused. I do agree that people are desensitized to murder more and more, and devaluing life has gone on for a long time. It’s why I can’t stand the false moralizing about ‘climate change’ and all that other BS, meanwhile they are for murdering babies, fully grown, not just fetuses.
It doesn’t matter. The law is written so that women are given 100% control over the choice. I don’t know of a single instance of a man preventing a women from obtaining an abortion against their will.
If men have ZERO agency in the decision making process, bringing them up is red herring. Men made the mistake when they voted for women’s suffrage. They should have included children while they were at it, it couldn’t have caused any more damage.
HSF = Logic. Sorry DD.
True, legally men have no choice and not true power. But men in relationships with the woman have influence for sure, depending on the strength of the relationship likely alot of influence on what the woman does. The legal system certainly doesn’t support that, but its not as if all woman who consider abortion are jumping to do it, many likely would choose life if they felt supported. I was speaking of men actively pushing woman who might not otherwise get an abortion, or who was waffling about it. I’m confident lots of casual hookups that resulted in conception have young men attached to them that wanted nothing to do with having a kid. There is/was social pressure men can produce to attempt to make an abortion happen. Probably less social power to prevent an abortion, but if there is a relationship there and the man makes a strong case that they will stay with the woman and be a father to the child, it likely will hedge woman to consider skipping the abortion.
There certainly is influence/power outside the laws. But you are correct if a woman is dead set on killing off her baby, men have no real power. My guess though is that more men have given money, supported, or used social pressure to have woman choose abortions than the likely small number who were powerless in trying to stop one.
Indeed. Think of all the mistresses of powerful men.. That’s the historical backdrop to the modern abortion trade: those who could pay to make awkward problems go away.
I don’t disagree with you HSF, just wondering about what your wife might think about your opinion on the suffrage thing.
My wife doesn’t like the way not voting feels, but she knows enough about womun to know, deep down, that women shouldn’t vote.
I share my opinions with my wife, she knows. She agrees with me based on the logic I’ve used to get to my premise, but she’s also a woman and she “feels” like women should have the vote, which only proves my point, much to her chagrin. I can tell you that she hates it when it comes up at cocktail parties.
When I re-read my posts I sound like such an asshole. If I’m mistaken or someone can prove to me using logic and reason that I am wrong, I’ll change my opinion. And when I do spout off it is always in terms of generalities rather than exceptions. There are women out there, I am certain, who smarter than I and who would do a better job of reasoning these things out, but I haven’t come across one yet.
Does abortion make the world a better place? Are we better off for it, or do the losses offset the gains? Are we better people for aborting the unborn or does it devalue our humanity?
Why do you think that Twitter banned their account, or why no advertisers would allow this film to buy commercial advertisements?
Those questions aren’t difficult for me to answer, but in our current culture, no one even asks them. And that should tell you everything you need to know about it.
When God cut off the dick the brains slipped out.
What happened to your brains, Foolery?
“When I re-read my posts I sound like such an asshole”
That happens to me, too. Usually in response to something I said, not something I wrote.
Anybody who revisits their comments, for whatever reason, can find a flaw or four. Either in factual inaccuracies, critical cynicism, poor word selection, or sounding off from a pedestal with the braying of an ass.
Speaking of ass, I had mine handed to me not too far back in a commentary exchange. I slinked away, and longed for a delete button.
Once we press Send, it’s out there, baby.
Your ass is exposed to the masses, and plenty of old school cops walking this beat with a strap, ready and willing to do some verbal whippin. And, most everyone has a whoops now and then.
Pick your ass back up, and get back in there. Tomorrow’s another day.
Another one brings a slew of other topics in which to chime.
Why do I get the feeling ‘yote’s gonna come blazing in, with another smart ass comment?
It’s how he rolls. That’s all.
THERE he is. My buddy.
With anudder music video that fits.
When that song came out, I was then, and still am now, the old dude the hep cats made fun of, for getting the lyrics wrong.
Thought it was Hoo! Bad Ass!
Then heard it was Whoop! There It Is!
Might be an ebonics thing here, but plenty of white singers that garble their lyrics, too.
Here’s one. “Married an L.A. gal and brought her to this small town. Now she’s Small Town, just like me.”
whatever.
Let the music do the talking.
You are thinking about a different tune. This one says – I’ll whoop dat ass.
No, you don’t sound like an asshole at all. You sound logical. That said, as to the suffrage discussion with my wife, that discussion will need a good leaving alone. She is 85% red pilled, but don’t think I am going to get there on the last 15%. I consider myself lucky and blessed to have a wife where the both of us are so on board with each other. Of course I bring up the moon landings and, well, …….
You’re not Ralph, and she’s not Alice, are you?
Kramden?
One of these days…
Not
“When I re-read my posts I sound like such an asshole. ”
Yes, but not always.
“Does abortion make the world a better place?”
Better for whom?
“Are we better off for it”
Who is “we”?
What is the “value” of humanity? Sounds like something one might quantify.. if so, how might you quantify it? To whom does the Value of Humanity accrue?
I dislike many aspects of moral relativism as it pertains to social cohesion, but (having trained as a biologist) it’s impossible for me to view any living creature as acting from a place of “morality” rather than self-interest.
Is it “moral”, “immoral”, or “amoral” for a wasp to lay eggs inside a caterpillar such that its larvae eat the caterpillar alive from the inside out? That is the world we are given to live in, not another.
I know why the Twitter folks wanted to suppress the film: power. It’s all about power. There is nothing that isn’t about power.
It makes us no different than those who sacrificed their babies to Molech. Satan loves it when we kill our babies – its demonic and evil. America will be dealt with and it won’t be pretty.
Seems we’ve forgotten where is it says “Thou shall not kill??” Then again few know what even means or where it came from.
I know where “thou shalt not kill” comes from. And I also know that the folks I’m most likely to end do not read that book, they read another.
One that says it’s ok to lie to people who do not read their book.
One that says it’s ok to kill people who do not read their book, rape their women, raise their captured children to read their book, and rape them (as children) too; a book that excuses even more barbarity that the one that says “Thou shalt not kill”.
If humanity has a meaning, it has to be that people should live their own lives, not lives someone else has chosen for them. And if that takes killing the people that read that OTHER book –
when they come to lie, rape and murder –
then I will, without delay, hesitation or remorse. Humanity needs defenders more than it needs apologists – who would not survive to apologize long around THEM.
Women’s suffrage being a mistake is an opinion I wouldn’t offer out loud, in public, anywhere. If my wife knew how I really felt…..She already accuses me of being a life-like version of Fred Flintstone. Little does she know……
I’ve been reading about this topic some on 4chan. It seems so controversial, at first. How barbaric! How caveman-esque! But when you start to dig into the logic of it, it begins to make more and more sense.
we’ll never take away women’s suffrage w/o using force since men would be outvoted,and
massive amounts of bitterness would linger 4 generations–
i believe that possibly one of these 2 modifications to voting might help & would possibly pass,though it’s not likely–
we could only allow women the vote if they are married w/children & over 30,or we could simply allow only one vote per address–
only allowing one vote per address would also eliminate multi generational voting from the same address where the home is filled w/members of the fsa–it’s very common to have multiple generations of welfare recipients in one home–a couple of years back i had 2 sisters,one of ’ems adult daughter & her boyfriend,an adult niece,& a friend of the family all living in the same house,and all eligible to vote–
I’m willing to give up my right to vote if I no longer have to pay taxes. Otherwise, it’s a hell of a thing to codify women’s second class status into law while still making them pay for the same government that doesn’t operate with their consent.
Taxation without representation seems like something that might be worthy of a war…
I’m with you, Lulu. Not interested in paying for Bernie’s F-35s.
chubby & lulu,and all those who upvoted you,
if you believe that you shouldn’t have to pay taxes if you can’t vote,does that mean you agree w/the current push by the dems to lower the voting age to 16,or should minors not have to pay taxes on their earnings?
I don’t agree with lowering the voting age. I don’t necessarily think minors should have to pay taxes on their earnings, but the trick here is how to separate a minor’s earnings from the parents’.
This just sounds like sour grapes. You told me in the past “life isn’t fair”. Now you want things to go “your” way… Well, maybe that’s just not ever going to be in the cards. Women will always have their “witchy” ways of trying to avoid/terminate pregnancies, for as long as they can become pregnant. Because most women—strangely enough—just don’t want to end up like a Duggar, in broken health, with 2o kids, but without the media millions.
Count me as one woman who has stopped voting altogether! This is not my eternal home. Thank God!
Women shouldn’t have been given the right to vote? Dear God, what is with you? Have you converted to Islam? You sound like a self-righteous Imam. Next comes the burqua and then comes the lash if they offend Allah. Your arrogance is astonishing and your capacity for overgeneralization is off the charts
It’s astonishing how you ignore women like Madame Curie or Elizabeth Cady Stanton or Elizabeth the 1st or Elizabeth Blackwell or Vigee Le Brun or Rosa Bonheur or Dorothy Hodgkin or a host of other women who helped change the world. They should never have been allowed an education, they should have been kept ignorant and barefoot and pregnant.
Thank God the world has moved on from your type of narrow minded bigotry.
You are ignoring pre-modern, non-surgical, family “planning” practices which have been a part of humanity for ever. They not only include herbal abortifacients but also simple exposure, which is likely still practiced to this day. A woman goes out into the bush to give birth, and may or may not return with a child.
I won’t go into the unsavory practices of orphanages, workhouses and other abusive regimes of the industrial era, ongoing to this day, which might make abortion seem the least gruesome of options. Italian surnames like “Esposito” (exposed) tell the tale of a kid handed over to be raised by the Church (oh, Joy!).
Infanticide has little to do with “a totalitarian state” since this is something that’s been practiced in tribal settings since time immemorial. Rather, a totalitarian state desires ultimate control over women’s bodies (over the bodies of all its constituents).. whether that means denying access to birth control as Xtian fundamentalists would do, or limiting women to one child like in China.
Women controlling their own fertility has always been a battleground. Men want control over women’s fertility for clear reasons which I freely acknowledge: beyond the desire to procreate, the desire to know that the children they are raising are their own (more the case in modern-ish, patriarchal/monotheistic cultures versus some much-older tribal anything-goes “it takes a village” cultures), in order not to “waste” resources on offspring who are not genetically related.
—
HSF, another aspect you may not be considering is that humans are animals. Since you like to draw analogies from the world of livestock, what does it tell you when animals eat their young or abandon them? They don’t live in a political or spiritual world, but a material one, so there must be material reasons for this behavior.
It’s my understanding that animals will sacrifice their young when they perceive hardship. That the hardship may be relative is neither here nor there.. it’s still a hard-wired instinct, imo. A parent who can’t provide for its young without getting into deep existential trouble can live to reproduce another day if unencumbered in the short term. When you have a society which holds out no hope for gainful employment for most of its citizens, the fact that some have abortions in the face of that, or devolve into drugs and suicide, is really just a symptom of overpopulation stress, not a separate fount of problems.
Exactly. Abortion is of the flesh and not the spirit.
Yeah sorry, but if you’re gonna try the “well, killing of babies was done in ancient times” tripe, then are you also suggesting that child sacrifices should also be done? Bc that horrible practice has been around since antiquity as well…. but come to think of it, isnt that what abortion is, to some degree? The modern form of Baal worship?? Some things never change….
I don’t say anything about “should”. I just try to be observant of what is, and what has been.
BS, you are trying to use “what has been” as a justification for today’s butchery, and you are evading the question: is child sacrifice also ok??
HSF’s moralizing never paid attention to Romania and Decree 770. He probably isn’t even aware of that historical tidbit…Ceausceau forced women to have children, as many as possible, regardless of whether or not they could care for or feed them. The children often ended up in orphanages…wards of the state, hideous places where they languished in cribs and often starved…
Nope, HSF lives in a fairy tale world where men are all seeing and beneficent and all abortions are evil and every child is wanted and loved and all the women are brood mares and servants to men and treated as classless because they are inferior and stupid.
Abortion has existed for centuries, from actual uterine scraping to herbs taken to induce abortion. The back alley abortions and the many deaths that happened as a result of those actions are not a joke nor are they fabrications. Catholic women in Ireland were some of the poorest females around. Denied access to birth control, denied access to safe abortions, they were generally reduced to penury because their large families weren’t capable of filling all the empty mouths. Go read up on that history if you want some eye opening.
Up until the sixties a single woman who found herself pregnant was shunned and ostracized by society. If her family could afford it, she was sent off to birth the baby and then said child was put up for adoption. Women were their husband’s property, wife beating was acceptable up to a point to keep her ‘in line’ and she was required to submit to her husband’s advances. What you see with Islam today was very much how women were treated in Western Society up until the late forties and early fifties. They didn’t wear the veil but men were in charge of the little ladies and any man who let his wife get away with too much freedom was a regarded as a pussy-whipped wimp.
Back then a woman could have gotten pregnant as a result of her own carelessness or else because she chose to copulate with the wrong man. Abortion wasn’t birth control back then, it could very easily have resulted in the woman’s death.
No, it was the creation of birth control pills that opened Pandora’s box. Women were freed from the fear and worry of an unwanted pregnancy and. more importantly, they were allowed the freedom to explore their sexual proclivities without repercussions just like men were able to.
The Woman’s Movement was justified. The tragedy was that it morphed into a violent and virulent form of organized hatred of men. My mother was not allowed to have a checking account of her own without my father’s permission, and this was post WWII America. The issue facing us today isn’t abortion per se, no, what’s at stake is now the acceptance that a fetus is not a person and can be destroyed at any point in the gestational development including after birth.
I dislike the idea but having a safe abortion available up to the first trimester is not always a bad thing. After that time, abortion becomes murder unless the child is so hideously deformed that aborting it would be a kindness.
. When the embryo becomes a fetus then abortion should be outlawed. Treating abortion as birth control, harvesting fetal ‘parts’ and then selling them is grotesque and beyond evil.
“”My mother was not allowed to have a checking account of her own without my father’s permission, and this was post WWII America. “
In the 90’s, I actually pitched the idea to the wife for her and I to have 2 separate accounts to deposit a couple hundred bucks a month into for whatever we wanted … straight down the middle … The joint account would be for household expenses and SAVINGS … and “my money” would have gone to SAVINGS too cause I don’t want or need any of the extras.
She didn’t buy it … The old adage for chicks … My money is my money …. His money is our money.
Happily married over 25 years!
“When the embryo becomes a fetus then abortion should be outlawed…” No, a human becomes a unique individual when the egg becomes fertilized. THAT is the logical starting point for human life. Any other temporal or developmental definition for personhood & rights is arbitrary, rhetorically/emotionally driven, and not based on science.
Dan ya beat me to it…
“…when the embryo becomes a fetus…”
Well folks, it looks like mygirl has it all figured out.
Everyone can go home now..
Cloaked in her principled stance of non-aggression.
Assured that not one single soul could be harmed…
She has a plan where nobody gets hurt..
unless they are hideously deformed.
Umm. Which mygirl you referencing here?
The imposter is hiding behind my moniker again…comeon little sissy, be brave and quit hiding. You know you want to …
Women exist primarily in an emotive state whereby their decisions are not reliant on logic and reason as the first order, but on how they feel about the decisions they make.
Over generalize much? Talk about a total and complete line of bullshit. What arrogance, what supercilious and petty overgeneralizations are these. This line of thinking is getting most tiresome. It seems that the prevailing idea here on TBP is that women are stupid, hysterically emotional and incapable of rational thought without the brave and moral guidance of majestic and noble males, all of whom comment here. Let us not examine the noble males who impregnated the woman and then ran off, leaving her to bear the brunt of the responsibilty for caring for a child…nope, it is all on the female and not one of you lot has addressed that aspect of things because it doesn’t suit your false and pathetic belief that you’re somehow smarter than women.
I call hypocrisy on you and all of your ilk, you wear blinkers, ignore reality of who and why gets abortions. Do you lot of hypocrites think it’s ok for a twelve year old to carry a full term pregnancy? Do you believe a raped women should carry the product of rape to term? Of course you do, you speak from a position of arrogance and false superiority, you have no compassion, you are the pharisees, the Cotton Mathers, the ones who cast the first stones because, of course, you are masculine and somehow superior because you have a dick?
Newsflash, you aren’t nearly as intelligent as you think you. Are your wives and daughters simpering and overly emotional idiots like you say all women are? They are women after all….
She Bitch He Woman…
Was Pat Schroeder one? I think she’s responsible for most of our problems. I consider her to be the first skank whore in Congress, selling out military principles to social justice long ago.
Seriously, if you are on the trail of who is responsible for turning women into men… this is one of the glass breakers.
Seriously, some glass ceilings are there for a reason.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-11-15-tm-21153-story.html
“Pat Schroeder [is] responsible for most of our problems.”
Hmmm.
Let me quality that… the women of NOW and the first lady libbers in Congress brought about a lot of this mess by trying to pass the ERA back in the day. What is ironic? I believe if the Equal Rights Amendment had passed, the she bitch he women would have demanded exemption from the draft BECAUSE of childbirth.
It is the loophole through which I stepped off the flying status wagon.
I have been on both sides of the fence. Back in my twenties, I paid for two abortions to two different women.
At that time, my only fear was that my partying lifestyle would have to end if I had tots to care for. Those pregnancies weren’t convenient to me, like a mosquito flying into my ear while trying to sleep at night. One of those women “seemed” to be okay with the decision, and we soon drifted apart. The other one loved me and wanted to have my baby. I responded, immediately after her abortion, by rewarding her for her decision with a lovely breakfast.
That was probably her worst breakfast ever.
Do as thou wilt.
Fast forward to the present. Due to my changing worldview due to my trusting Christ as my Lord and savior and having some knowledge of the character of God through the KJV, I now consider abortion as murder. It strikes me odd that in while abortion is now LEGAL (but is it LAWFUL?), if a person murders a pregnant woman, the perp will be charged with killing both the mother and the baby. An unborn child is not going to be born a rabbit or a squirrel. It will become a human being, totally innocent. Abortion activists will say they are supporting the rights of a woman. What about the rights of the most innocent human, who cannot speak for themselves?
27 years ago I was recently divorced with three children. I met my current wife and we had a relationship that developed slowly. She literally carried me financially as I had lost a job and was paying massive child support payments. I went back to school while working 3 crappy jobs and graduated as she provided this support. We stayed together for the next 12 years as friends.
In 2001 on the 4th of July she surprised me by telling me she was pregnant. At that point in time I was in no way wanting another child due to my previous experience. As we talked she said she would consider an abortion if that was what I really wanted as she very much loved me. She also said she understood what I felt and she would prefer to keep my child as her own with no strings attached. We were not yet married. No child support, college support ETC. She carried our child to term and a son was born.
Two years later I married this wonderful woman. Still no strings attached. Over the years I have been able to provide guidance to my son, coach little league baseball and football with him, take him flying, scuba certification together, teaching him to ride a motorcycle and skydiving when he was 15. These have been the most wonderful years of my life and the gift of father/son he gave me can never be repaid.
We have been very happily married for nearly 15 years now and my son is due to graduate high school this May. 3.8 GPA and accepted into a fine trade school program. Turned out to be quite the young man.
I struggle and come to tears as I write this with the thought that at one time I considered giving all this joy up due to my selfish nature (GOD forgive me). I am so happy she said what she said when she said it. God gave a gift to a broken man in the form of a lovely wife and son and I will be forever grateful for that.
“As we talked she said she would consider an abortion if that was what I really wanted as she very much loved me. ”
I can tell you that conversation plays out over and over before the decision is made. When the decision is to abort, the relationship invariably fails. I do not have the stats but they are quite high.
I have made some terrible decisions in my life but her words stating that she would not do anything to rake me over the coals should things not work out made all the difference. She very much wanted MY child either together or apart and told me just that. Made no difference to her but she really wanted us to do it together I think. I’m so happy I didn’t push the question. Would have been the absolute WORST decision of my life. I can’t even begin to explain the joy I’ve been blessed with. Thank GOD!!
It may seem counter-intuitive, but that’s a story you should share with your son. There’s an important life lesson in there he may never encounter otherwise.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thank you HS. I’ve thought about it but I’m not sure how he would take the fact that I ever even considered that option. I suppose I could ask for his forgiveness. I’d really like to tell him and sometimes do the joy he has given me. But never like that. You are a very astute man and any advice would be greatly appreciated!
As an aside – My wife was adopted.
So was mine.
As was my father. Thankfully.
Jaycee and HSF, gonna butt-in here . . . Jaycee, IF (not meant to be contradictory, but follow my logic) your life with your son, and his with you, is stable, loving, and positive . . . that is, if you love your son and he KNOWS that you do by your consistent behaviour, then 1) he already knows the truth, and 2) . . . you will cry your eyes out when you speak it, and if he has EVER doubted how you really feel (cuz kids question sometimes, just trying to figure out this screwed-up world), he will never question again. So, I AGREE with HSF. Your “testimony” touched me and I’m a knuckle-dragging f*cktard, so I can only imagine how it might affect your, no doubt, smart, well-adjusted, handsome (thank God he looks like his mom – haha) kid.
Just sayin’
Thank you for the advice. I will take it to heart and seriously consider having the conversation with him. It most likely will be one of the hardest conversations I’ll ever have. Going “all-in” so to speak. I’m pretty demanding of him but have told him that when you are doing what you need to do to be successful you have free reign to pretty much do most anything you’d like. Sometimes I think he doesn’t understand the lessons I’m trying to teach and feels I’m to rough on him. I’m nervous of ruining what I’ve been blessed with.
Go back and read what you just wrote, Jaycee.
To me,that sounds like a pretty good intro; change the “him” to “you” or “son” or “boy” or “doofus” or whatever you call him, maybe even use his name . . . . I understand your nervousness, etc., and there is no pressure from anyone on you to have this talk, so please don’t take it as such. He is your doofus, after all. But there may come a time when it is relevant that he understand what a BLESSING he is and has been to you, and maybe to understand the heartbreak you glimpse when you even think about how different life MAY have been. You got good peeps, sounds like, so in now way to encourage you to “risk” that in any way. But, no kidding, I was touched by your honesty and sincerity. Even though I am a knuckledragger 🙂
I was friends with a couple in college who thought they were pregnant. They both made the decision to abort the baby except they later found she wasn’t preggers. Just late. The guy regrets today having made that decision and says he could never judge someone for going through with what he decided to do. The only difference was that he was lucky to have been spared.The couple is still married to this day and once when we were all drunk they asked me if it was something they should tell their children about. I don’t know if I was right or wrong, but I told them to let bygones be bygones. It was water under the bridge. Besides, who really knew if they would have actually gone through with it. Maybe some secrets should not be told.
niebo/Honest Buck – Thank you for your perspectives. I was thinking of opening this conversation with him today but after reading this feedback I’ll save it for another day if ever. As you said HB, maybe let bygones be bygones. I was hoping to use this example to illustrate the potential impacts of decisions he is going to be making soon. Some you can change such as where to eat. You can always go to the other place tomorrow. Others are one time shots and there is no turning back. Perhaps the wrong choice of example. Not very often I can converse with very insightful and intelligent people/”knuckledraggers”. LOL. Your feedback along with HSF’s is VERY much appreciated.
Some you can change such as where to eat. You can always go to the other place tomorrow. Others are one time shots and there is no turning back. Perhaps the wrong choice of example.
MC, I’d look at this another way. The decision to abort is not the source of the relationship failure, but the consequence of a relationship which was not stable or supportive to begin with.
There is no longer a need to ask God for forgiveness…
Col 2:13… “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
…but a need to say thank you for the forgiveness He so generously offers.
I do that most every night before going to sleep GCP.
Yes,however there is one other important thing to any healing or sin….one also has to forgive themselves and that’s the hard part.
He forgave our trespasses….but only a few partake of that blessed forgiveness as only a few will be on that narrow road that leads to eternal life. The majority don’t give a rip about forgiveness and that wide road to destruction will be very crowded. Those who walk in the way of the world are turned from following Christ.
Agreed sir. Sad indeed…
Philippians 3:13-14 KJB… “Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”
One of the hardest things for a man that is trying to be honest with himself to do is to move past life’s larger mistakes. But move past them we must if we are to accomplish much of anything for Him.
Grace and peace…
Thank you for that verse GCP! I’ll try and keep this in mind as I move forward in this life.
You are most welcome!
Aw, look at you moving forward while us cretins stand still and let life pass us by.
Well, pastor..it’s ma’am. Silver-haired, well-earned wrinkles and all! But that’s Ok. Without face to face, eyeball to eyeball we really never get the whole picture of communication is my belief. Thank you for giving this favorite verse.
Moving past – beyond – to His joy is my strength, and pressing on and forward toward His high calling mark to be sure. Following our Savior is a higher calling.
Yahweh will use the good, the bad and even the ugly for His ultimate purpose in all things. God never wastes our experiences. You can take that to the bank! Er…well, think that one over.
Yet there are some things in this earthly life that can never be forgotten, or shoved aside. Perhaps, maybe for a time, but can silently creep in sometimes in the still of night, for any one of us. It’s can also be a reminder from Him to seek repentance, which is an ongoing process to overcoming. Forgotten sins brought to our remembrance for further healing and cleansing. It’s then when our Father’s prayer is so very welcome.
It is my true belief that so many people today, especially in America, have never really understood or dealt with the huge struggle of this earthly life, or the reasons for their enormous human pain – be it emotional, physical, and even spiritual. Much of is passed down from generation to generation, never someone thinking to stop the ongoing cycle of abuse, anger of all kinds. We’ve gotten away from the true Source of life. One can hear the heart anguish and anger right here on this forum.
We tend to want to bypass all that and get right to the happy, happy, happy. It pollutes our nation in every area of life.
Never the thought of giving it up, shoveling up our wounded-ness to Him Who created us in the first place and knows every single hair on our heads. Hence, the huge nationwide mind-numbing, life-altering drug (both legal and illegal) and alcohol addicted masking extremely deep wounds… the baggage that we so protectively carry around, forgetting that there is more to this life right here than walking wounded.
Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.
Death in any form be it from abortion, or the war torn remembrances of veteran’s, or the loss of a parent or precious child – human kind will turn us each, one way, or the other.
Some turn bitter and angry, taking it all out on family members and those around them…… And, yet, some others will understand and be led to do His will, by the circumstance, to be used with greater love and compassion toward others, to come along side in a time of great need of hope, encouragement, and showing His abundant grace and mercy. His plan always prevails when we hear and be mindful of His Voice.
Thank you, again Pastor. Have a very blessed day.
Doh… I’m so sorry, ma’am. That’s what happens when I assme. I make an ass out of me 🙂
Keeping in mind the verse from Colossians however, you recall one from Matthew… “And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive them that trespass against us.”
May I respectfully ask, if we are already forgiven (Col 2:13) why ask for forgiveness? It seems counterintuitive. The 2 verses in Matthew just following the ones you quote read:
Mat 6:14-15… “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Is this the way by which we are forgiven? IF we forgive others? That’s a mighty big “IF” I certainly can’t live up to. Or, are we forgiven by the grace of God? Grace is that which we do not deserve yet are granted anyway.
Something to think about there…!
In full context: Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
II Cor 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance (Remorse or contrition for past conduct or sin‘” that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
….and then there’s Romans 6: So do you think we should continue sinning so that God will give us even more grace? 2 No! We died to our old sinful lives, so how can we continue living with sin?
And David was one of the most Godly men in the old testament, yet he himself repented numerous times even after he knew God and his graces:
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity
And cleanse me from my sin.
For I know my transgressions,
And my sin is ever before me.
Against You, You only, I have sinned
And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak
And blameless when You judge. Psalm 51:2-4 (NASB)
We must continually repent, or His grace will not remain.
First, you need to read the Bible, not a religious perversion of it.
“We must continually repent, or His grace will not remain.”
Second, you need to learn to rightly divide the scriptures so you have the correct doctrine presented to you. Get out of the Hebrew epistles. They are written directly to those tribulation saints who must endure to the end for the salvation that is to come at the restitution of all things when Christ is seated upon His earthly throne.
If you must continually repent, how do you even move? Romans 7…
Gods grace, in this dispensation, is a freely offered gift one can either accept or reject. Romans 5… Make a decision and live your life accordingly. Romans 6…
I’m writing this with a sleeping baby in my arms… ?
Romans 8…
Suppose a Grandfather’s son forgave someone who murdered his grandson. The son forgave him because the murderer repented. But later the murderer changed his mind and beat up the son who forgave him. This meant the murderer was forgiven but stopped repenting. How do you think the Grandfather will judge that murderer in the end?
Suppose the judge sentenced the murderer to death. Imagine the grandfather saying to the murderer of his grandson, I will die in your place that you may live.
The grandfather is god the father. The son is Jesus. The murderer is us. We repent and Jesus forgives us. But if we turn from our first love and blaspheme Jesus then no sacrifice is left.
Hebrews 10:26; ‘For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.’
John 5:14; ‘Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.’
But Romans chapter 8 is debatable. Verses 29-30 looks like Calvinism and the rest of the chapter names everything that cannot separate us from Christ but it does not include our free will after being saved.
Again, you are reading from the Hebrew epistles. We are not Jews. God is not dealing with the world in terms of Jew and/or Gentile in this dispensation of grace. Our direct instructions from Christ are found in Paul’s epistles.
If repentance is a qualification of salvation, how will you ever know you have repented enough? Can you repent enough to make yourself acceptable to God? Can you feel so badly for your sins and turn away from all of them that God deems you worthy of Heaven? Can you be perfect, because Christ was/is; and that’s what it takes.
It sounds like your flesh is a very important component of your salvation. I thank God that He killed my flesh; the activity of it has nothing to do with my eternal salvation!
Gal 2:20… “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
I am dead, buried and raised again to newness of life. I am a new creature. My works, good or bad are meaningless to my eternity. If they were, I’d never make it. I can’t be good enough. You can’t repent enough…
Please don’t read this as “license to sin”. See Romans 6. Grace works from the inside out.
HAHAHAHA – you go Pastor! Not always an easy thing to do.
Somebody always changes these comments around and, for me, it makes some comments more confusing. I am not laughing at any of your Biblical comments above but the mental picture of holding a sleeping baby on your lap while trying to write all of this. Bravo to your diligence, Pastor.
https://buchanan.org/blog/a-remembrance-of-anne-4307
Soup’s Pump and Dump story
Also, another great article Uncola. I appreciate the length of your recent articles a bit more. A bit more concise, but still writing a decent bit to flesh things out.
@ Bubbah
Thank you. When I’m working through something, no matter what it is, I always want to be thorough; as opposed to being careless, I suppose.
Fortunately, in the digital age, we never worry about wasting paper, ink, or film
You do overdo it with the commas though. You will run out of them as I have.
A comma is a mental pause like saying ‘uh’ every other word. It can be a filler or it can do actual work, your choice, Unpaused.
Upon Vodka’s mention on an ancient thread, I decided to read some Hunter S. Thompson. The book I dusted off and opened was “Hells Angels” and did greatly admire his lack of commafication.
I previously used commas as a way to mark pauses for speeches and still have the habit of thinkifying them into these blog posts. Then, when proofing, I go through them real slow.
But instead when proofing I need to review the copy the way Hunter Thompson wrote like I am now in this paragraph because online readers tend to imbibe the content in extremely advanced states of quickification.
Truth is, I’m still figuring it all out and definitely appreciate the critiquelitudes.
imbue
By the grace of God, I never impregnated a woman in the immature days between puberty and young adult life.
If faced with the decision, (and if even offered to have a say in the decision), I’m not sure what I would have done.
To say it would have been a very difficult decision is at least an honest “what if?” …with the benefit of hindsight.
Now that I’m older, and have beliefs, it’s a no brainer decision. I couldn’t handle the guilt of rejecting such a gift.
Even if it was the result of poor decision, and the unintended consequence that sometimes follow.
So, too, a very slim chance exists that a former lover got pregnant by me, and kept the revelation to herself.
Then, two rare possibilities: she aborted, or she delivered, without notifying me of either decision. Ugh.
I hope, if I make it to through the proverbial pearly gates, our Lord doesn’t show me too many unknown surprises that I had a role in developing.
Re: Planned Parenthood’s statement,
“The claims in this film are simply false. Planned Parenthood is proud to provide expert, high-quality health care to our patients, including safe and legal abortion, in a safe and compassionate environment. The movie promotes many falsehoods including most importantly, distortions and incorrect depictions about healthcare.
…Planned Parenthood purchased billboards, as well, that said: “Abortion is healthcare.”
I couldn’t help but think, as I read:
Same statement, but CAPITALS use substitute words.
(sorry. haven’t mastered the blog’s BOLD, or Strike-through options)
“The claims in this film are simply COLD, HARD TRUTH. Planned Parenthood is AUDACIOUS AND ARROGANT, to provide expert, CONVENIENT HOMICIDE for our patients, including CRUEL AND IMMORAL abortion, in a COLD and IMPERSONAL, CRIMINAL environment. The movie promotes many MORALS including most importantly, ACCURACY and CORRECT depictions about PROFITABILITY WITHIN THE SICK CARE INDUSTRY RACKET.
…Planned Parenthood objects, to our purchased billboards, as well, THAT SHOW VANDALISM.
“Abortion is healthcare.” was modified to “Abortion is MURDER”
In closing, I can think of few other issues that have humanity so bitterly divided.
And, how can any woman who loves children ever justify agreeing that other women should have a right to choose?
It’s the height of hypocrisy.
But then, I’m a male, so in their view, I’m probably not allowed to weigh in on that specific subject.
And some wonder why MGTOW is a trend.
Regarding the “Abortion is healthcare” billboards, I wouldn’t be surprised if some vandal, in the dead of night, spray-painted the following (or similar) beneath those words:
“But not for the fetus”
Abortion is not healthcare because pregnancy is not a disease. It is a healthy female bodies response to the male sperm.
Some abortions (not most) *are* medically necessary. I hate when people make blanket statements about this.
medically necessary abortions are usually covered by insurance & are only slightly less rare then conceptions from rape or incest
Ok, …and?
I hate it when someone thinks I’m making a blanket statement because I forget that some people will take me literally and I need to include exceptions.
MC
Dammit. I wasn’t going to comment but we are at the spine treatment place and my husband is being tested to see if a nerve block will help his sciatic nerve pain.
But… here goes.
I have a friend in Ireland who is Catholic and endured bias, discrimination and even vandalism because of her religion very recently. She had three children, one of whom was born with Anencephaly and lived for almost eleven years as a nonresponsive infant. She told me the story, privately, and explained the moral dilemma she and her husband never had regarding her having and tending the child.
She sent me a family photo when the “baby” was ten. Her teen children and husband were dressed in Sunday best and standing beside her chair, where she held the “baby” in her ruffled dress with her hair beautiful curled, obviously by her mother’s hand, which was holding a brush in the photo. My Irish friend sat holding the child on her lap and she was beaming, obviously delighted with her family around her, making the last photo of the whole family special.
Ugh.
I had a dentist appointment yesterday… cleaning 35 bucks. I hadn’t been there since my ordeal and so I had to fill out paperwork regarding the new scars. I got the new form with all the gender choices and the list of ailments, which include both “unplanned pregnancy” and “Gender dysphoria”
I marked the “refused to answer” box.
Checking that block means your guilty as sin, queer to the bone.
We were challenged.
Engaged but not married, doing the deed, she was late. What to do? [What WILL YOU DO, lover?]
Well, I’m in second year of engineering school, just like you. I can’t graduate for another two years; the (potential) child will not wait that long. I guess I could try and get a job as a drafter, since we just finished that mechanical drawing class; never make any money, more than likely, but I probably could support you, somehow. Should we get married?
[Not yet, let’s see what turns out.]
Two weeks later, she wasn’t late anymore.
I think the knowledge that I would stand by her kept the relationship going. Women evaluate men for a long time before they decide to marry them, if they’re wise.
Fast forward three years; now married. Living in Houston, she is pregnant. We went on a “baby vacation” to enjoy a few activities that family life would limit in the future. We came back.
The baby wasn’t secure. She started bleeding again; after a painful two weeks she went to the hospital and miscarried. We were sad beyond words, with that emptiness that an empty nursery brings.
It would be six more years, reproductive examinations, and a surgery before her plumbing was diagnosed properly, remediated and she was pregnant again. That time it took. Three years later it took again. The second one just graduated college.
But there are days (and nights) when I sit alone in the dark, and wonder about the child we could not keep.
Abortions are absurd to those who cannot conceive.
Why is the abortion issue always a nihilistic argument? I don’t have all the answers but seems to me there are some logical lines to be drawn. Post term “abortion” is MURDER. On that everyone should be able to agree. IMO late term abortion is also MURDER. Somewhere in the first trimester before the baby is formed I think one could argue that abortion could be considered a viable and legal procedure under various circumstances including a women’s right to choose. And of course exceptions should be made for oddities like rape, incest, and the health of the mother.
Even as a Christian who believes in life, I have trouble advocating that ALL abortion should be illegal or is a sin/murder. For circumstances, like some of those I referenced above, I believe the judgement is between God and the individual, and not ours to make… Chip
If judgement was only between God and the sinner/offender there’d be no courts, no legal system, no laws.
We live in a world of men, societies demand that we judge in order to preserve the peace to some degree. The abdication of our natural inclination to judge things, to use our minds to reason our way through acts that are fundamentally good, or deliver a positive outcome over those that diminish us or whose costs exceed their benefits has left us with far more problems than those that have been solved.
Should a young girl that was raped by her brother (or father) and became pregnant carry a baby to term?
To make the distinction that killing a baby is between God and the individual is libertarian mental gymnastics used to weasel out of responsibility for murder. There are actions and things that are wrong and evil in and of themselves.
libertarians believe that individuals have rights & the only way a libertarian could advocate 4 abortion is to say that the fetus is not human–
some libertarians take that position,some do not–
As I said to HSF, Should a young girl that was raped by her brother (or father) and became pregnant carry a baby to term? I don’t see any mental gymnastics in that. Chip
No, she should not carry to term.
tough question–
because it always comes up w/pro abortion people & they often make their stand on this point,as a practical matter if it can stop most other abortions i would allow abortions 4 rape/incest–
abortions because of rape/incest are less than 1% of abortions–
as a moral issue,if one considers the growing organism to be a person,she should have to carry it to term–if it’s just a blob of cells,what difference does it make?
ditto 4 health exceptions–
And how many of the anti crowd are willing to adopt a mulatto kid that wasn’t aborted? Willing to pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes yearly to support more functionally fatherless kids and their foray into the court system?
So we should just kill them because they might be a burden? Why don’t we just kill all the kids who are unwanted and living in terrible situations? That is a terrible argument for abortion.
I would be willing to adopt a kid that wasn’t aborted. And I was raised Catholic and very much am anti-abortion.
For years I was always thankful I didn’t slip one past the goalie and end up in a difficult situation. In adulthood when my spouse and I wanted children we found out that we medically could not without lots of medical science intervention…and even that’s just a roll of the dice. Since my wife is adopted herself we wouldn’t hesitate twice about adoption. My wife is adopted herself and something we’ve looked into. Problem is that it’s an expensive and long process with no guarantees. Adopting domestic babies always leaves a chance that the birth mother will come looking someday. Foreign adoptions are still and option but again, very expensive and impossibly restrictive. I get the need for background checks but the process is extremely arduous to say the least.
And to a couple wanting a child race doesn’t matter a damn bit. Sure, I will make comments about the primary race of the gang bangers and pan handlers I see on the streets downtown but I bet all of them never had a stable nuclear family when growing up. I’ll fault them for bad decisions but acknowledge they were dealt a bad hand to start.
Did you know that the amount of couples who would like to adopt correlates very closely with the amount of children aborted?
https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families
That number does not include couples that never consider adoption because it is too expensive and there are already too many couples waiting.
Hey, there’s a young man who’s freed up from HSF’s neck of the woods:
New Hampshire 11-year-old charged with murder in shooting of two adults
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/new-hampshire-11-year-old-charged-murder-shooting-two-adults/
Gee, who could it have been?
Now all the mainstream pix have cropped out the kids.
I would. Absolutely! Without question.
Step right up!
“Somewhere in the first trimester before the baby is formed I think one could argue that abortion could be considered a viable and legal procedure under various circumstances including a women’s right to choose….”
So, Laodicean lukewarm, compromising Christian – you must know that God has already made that decision. Right? Every person is created in His image, so when you are advocating any kind of abortion, at any time, you advocate killing the One Who died a horrific, inhumane death — for you— to save you from the curse of the Law, from death….Right? Did you know that a human fetal heart begins beating by about 3 weeks from fertilization. At 8 weeks all the organs function; at 9 weeks the baby has individual fingerprints; and at 10 weeks the baby feels pain.
https://prolifeacrossamerica.org/baby-developmental-facts/
You might want to read your Bible. Remember, your every word, your every thought and every action will be judged……and, oh, that hell fire…burns like the devil!! Just sayin.’
Here’s what The Word has to say about all of that – and maybe re-think things through a little deeper.
“For You formed my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Marvelous are Your works, and I know this very well.…You clothed me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews.
Your hands have made me and fashioned me; give me understanding to learn Your commandments. As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the bones are formed in a mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth, After all, God is the one who gave life to each of us before we were born.”
Hate being repetitive here but, Should a young girl that was raped by her brother (or father) and became pregnant carry a baby to term? I don’t think that was part of God’s plan… Chip
Yes, it was part of God’s plan, because God is a mean, narcissistic, psychopath.
SGN, I appreciate your allowance for nuance. HSF says we are wont to live by the “laws of men” in order that there not be disorder. But that way lies also male- and female-genital-mutilation, burkas, and other oddities like putting animals to death for being demonically-possessed. Our “natural inclination to judge things” has not always been particularly pure or even entirely sensible.
You said it a lot better than I did… Chip
Should I pay for the sins of my father, Smaller? Should I die because my father committed a terrible sin against my mother?
MC
In the “every sperm is sacred” thought regime, even masturbation “kills” potential souls. MC, do you really think the trillions and gazillions of non-embodied sperm souls going by the wayside every day are suffering “death”? And do they all deserve human embodiment on this planet? Because that is the Church’s reckoning.
Islam is no better. Masturbation is not allowed, hence the “sexual emergencies” motivating them to rape young boys in public swimming pools.
Yikes, you need to go back to biology class. Sperm are not individuals. Neither are ovum (egg). And neither are the millions of skin cells we shed every day. Sperm and egg only become a new, viable individual human with a unique genetic code when the chromosomes from a sperm join with an egg. This is when a new human life begins. If you are truly worried about “women’s rights,” the Mohamedians ought to be your focus – – they enslave 1/2 a BILLION women in real-life horrors – -unlike the made-up right-wing abortion straw-men you and fellow leftiists have concocted in your heads.
No, I don’t need to go back to biology class. I have no delusions about the quality of mammalian sperm and eggs. Rather it is religionists who give sperm, in particular, dramatic importance. The Bible commands men not to spill their seed upon the ground. This same “divine” motivation is given Islamists who abhor masturbation. Seed is all supposed to be “planted”, don’t you get it?
Mohammedans are not outside of my focus at all. Here in this thread I just happen to take issue with some of the fundamentalists within our own, supposedly “free”, culture.
Sad that so many put so little value on human life. I go with the idea that Democrats are pro-abortion. A party of death. Prevention could have started in the bedroom. Abortion is now birth control for the not so bright.
Well done, once again.
This is such a volatile subject that I expect the comments to almost all be focused on abortion, rather than the other aspect, which is how and why the choices are made. Both important. In fact, I would say that the subject ‘abortion’ is only one implication of the total ‘world view’ distortion being shoved at us 24/7 around the world. Humans have an ability to reason at an incredible level, but also have an almost infinite ability to justify any choice, and will grab anything that seems to support it.
Years back I was of the opinion that, as much as I abhor abortion, just how desperate must a young woman be – for whatever reason – to take the life of her unborn child. Maybe that was a more widespread situation back then, and maybe is to some extent now, but what I see now is the culmination of all those years of incessant propaganda. Abortion – and this is my opinion – is simply all about consequence-free sex. As you wrote, those choosing abortion generally don’t recognize it as a separate living entity, only an inconvenience to be removed, kind of like a foul mouth after a night of partying. Gargle, brush, and into the day with a smile on your face.
Now apply that concept to other areas such as politics (socialism, anybody?) and financial (just put it on my card). Etc.
I personally know a woman who was beaten, raped and left for dead. Had to do with inheritance of quite sizable wealth. When she recovered, she refused to abort, and years later her son grew into an extremely intelligent loving young man. What enabled her to make those choices was her adamant refusal to put the ‘sins’ of the father onto the child. After all, she stated, it was also half her biologically, and all hers in all other areas. But once again, she saw it as a baby, not a clump of random cells. And she was and is a sincere devout follower of Christ.
What does that “mean”, though? That this woman could see the “good” in bringing to term her rapist’s child?? An alternative reasoning might be why propagate the genes of someone prone to rape?
Perhaps she’s not operating out of some “moral” realm at all, but just on biological principles that the game goes to the strong: there’s a reason Genghis Khan currently heads our main bloodline (16 million male descendants as of 2003). https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/mongolia-genghis-khan-dna/
The rape was by a man hired to kill her, and make it look unassociated with the inheritance. Therefore someone not nominally ‘prone to rape’. Having said that, everyone is prone to something. Comes with the whole ‘fallen humanity’ concept. Should we abort all children because their parents are prone to something?
I could slather this comment with scripture after scripture that touches on that, but at the end either you trust God in any given circumstance or you don’t. Because I see the results and you don’t, I can unequivocally say that she made the right choice.
Well, he certainly was a criminal if not an habitual rapist. I have a eugenicist streak in me that would not want to mother this person’s offspring (criminal behavior has a genetic component). The fact that the child beat the odds doesn’t disprove the rule. There’s a reason people used to worry about bloodlines.
Someone who wasn’t inspired to rape on impulse, but just raped because it supported some other criminal scheme… that seems even worse to me.
Can you imagine getting an erection and raping some random woman just because someone paid you to do it? What kind of person is that, and do we want more of them?
Why?
As the oldest of five adopted siblings, I thank God every day that my life & that of my brothers and sisters was spared. Abortion is murder, plain and simple.
Great article Doug.
I’ve posted my story several times before on TBP so won’t go into detail. My mother (biological) found herself pregnant as a young college girl. I don’t know what her decision would have been today but in 1950 had Roe v. Wade been the law of the land, I might have wound up in the blue drum.
My three grand daughters would be proud to know that dear ‘ole mom didn’t kill me. I too was adopted by wonderful “parents.”
I just want to thank everyone for the very thought-provoking and poignant commentary thus far.
Up yonder, Hardscrabble wrote:
And that was very well demonstrated in the movie “Unplanned”.
I was also thinking of the 1982 film that defined a generation – “Fast Times at Ridgemont High”. How, therein, the character played by Jennifer Jason Leigh, on a mission to lose her virginity, later became pregnant, had a quick abortion, and by the end of the film was a carefree teenager once again. Presto Change-o.
It’s surreal.
How many women who saw that film are now mothers and grandmothers? How many had abortions? And for those who did terminate their pregnancies: Did their lives play out like on film?
Movies in the mind and the stories we tell ourselves.
It’s not just for entertainment, ya know?
“How many women who saw that film are now mothers and grandmothers? How many had abortions? And for those who did terminate their pregnancies: Did their lives play out like on film?”
I know someone personally who made her decision to abort because that film portrayed abortion as a carefree decision. She regretted her decision as most women do. Even if they will not admit it. Abortion changes a woman. Once you become pregnant, you are a mother. After an abortion, you are the mother of a dead child.
Maybe you were talking about Unplanned. I might have mistakenly assumed you were talking about Fast Times when you posed that question. But make no mistake. Fast Times surely did make the impression that abortion solved a problem without any lasting consequences.
M C
I was definitely referring to “Fast Times”. Get busy with the boy, piss on the strip, see the colors change, hitch a ride to the clinic, and meet the friends back at the mall right after; for good times and laughter.
Movies of the mind. Advertising works. Ripples in the pond.
But what if it was just an illusion?
Knew three guys (Late 70s, Fast Times At Ridgemont High era) who told of their girlfriends having abortions.
These three women all later became successful, all got married later but never had children. They live right in the community now. They don’t know their secrets were told, you know fishing or hunting or just standing around a fire drinking and smoking and all. Wonder how much of this goes on countrywide. Always wonder if it is guilt, or medical, or maybe just the Heavenly Father closing the womb, the Bible is quite clear on the shedding of innocent blood.
Psalm 127 3-5 NIV version
Children are a heritage from the Lord,
offspring a reward from him.
Like arrows in the hands of a warrior
are children born in one’s youth.
Blessed is the man
whose quiver is full of them.
Uncola-
“Movies in the mind and the stories we tell ourselves
These ‘movies’ about abortion can play a lifetime, and the ‘stories’ we tell change.
Like many, I have a personal experience with “It’s” own twists and turns. Twists and turns that were of such random nature, I have long felt the ‘I AM that I AM’, was involved.
“It’s surreal.
How many women who saw that film are now mothers and grandmothers? How many had abortions? And for those who did terminate their pregnancies: Did their lives play out like on film?”
You cited Scripture in support ‘life at conception’…..I want to cite one in support of the infinite wisdom that souls would look for answers, and find Grace:
“I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.
Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive.
Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.” Ecc. 4: 1-3
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum- haha, this ‘movie’ playing out in secular politics? I’m convinced there’s a ‘director’ behind it who presents CHAOS and LIES
You’re masterful at the written !
“…to doctors positioning vacuum-attached cannulas via ultrasound…”
sounds legit, Uncannulated.
I was going to write a simple review but the thought passed as quickly as a cloud in the sky. It seems that maybe what I heard was “Don’t worry about it. I got this.” I have something else up my sleeve, anyways.
Your essay will start a much longer conversation than my little contribution would have.
I am going to write about this issue in the near future. When people make comments in a public forum, I assume you know that anyone might possibly see them. I may use some of the comments. If you do not want your comment used in my essay, please make a note at the end of your comment.
1. what I KNOW: IF men got pregnant, there would be drive-thru abortion clinics offering a free six pack with every suctioning… tell me that isn’t true, smartasses…
2. whatever a blob of cells in your stomach is, it is NOT an ‘infant’ as so many ‘tards like to emote so freely about (who they don’t give a shit about the pwecious babies AFTER they are born), but -boy howdy- they sure do want to poke their shitty noses in your gonads…
3. which leads to where the rubber meets the road, or the condom meets the va-jay-jay, as the kids say: do I own my own body or not ? ? ? if YOU say I do, then the implication is obvious… STFU…
4. REALLY frightening to have a core group of fucktards who claim they offer superior reasoning and logic when they can barely spell their own names; and YOU are going on at length about just how stoopid other folks are ? ? ? yikes, self-awareness is not your strong suit…
5. REALLY, REALLY sickening and a disgusting display of maximum hypocrisy when a person’s web site is WALL-TO-WALL clickbait shit… YOU CHOOSE to inflict such idiocy on your readers for the sake of mammon, and YOU criticize ANY choice by others ? ? ? some fucking nerve, hypocrite boy…
The good news is that your worldview holds sway in the current era, but thank you for stopping by to enlighten The Remnant. May the odds ever be in your favor.
And your tone illuminates your inner struggle more than you might imagine.
GLWT.
1. If men got pregnant they would be women, and women would be men. And it would be the same. Strawman argument.
2. Do some research about who is the significant majority of adopters.
3. Use actual biological reality, such as DNA to show whether that ‘blob of cells’ is actually part of the mother or not. Do YOU know when life starts? If so, enlighten us. Otherwise…STFU.
4. Look in the mirror.
5. This site is about freedom of speech. Admin does not necessarily endorse everything every poster writes.
sic ’em, Jim.
What kind of moron calls himself Art Gorilla? I have never seen a real gorilla lauded at the Rap Music Awards. Are you some kind of dwarf, possibly gay, gorilla that couldn’t keep up with the gang and chose to pursue art instead?
Mr. Gorilla thinks men can get preggers, knows it, in fact. What a moron. Build the wall.
Me thinks its a ‘herself’. Has all the earmarks of one.
I needed the giraffe eating popcorn GIF for Art Gorrila’s comment.
I’m wondering if art is someone in my circle? Because I had a female business associate tell me the other day that she was “stimulated by art”?
Anyway, to be fair, the movie “Unplanned” did allude to boyfriends who baled on their female paramours at the clinic. Which was likely what reminded me of the movie “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” (SEE COMMENTS ABOVE). Because that’s sort of what happened to Jennifer Jason Leigh’s character in the film. The guy knocked her up, agreed to pay for half of the abortion, and give her a ride to the clinic. Then, he never showed. Whatta guy.
How many times has that story played out across the American landscape over the past several decades, I wonder?
Certainly, the experience plays out differently for the two sexes. Even on film. I once read an interesting article comparing and contrasting Jennifer Jason Leigh’s first sexual experience in “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” (1982) with Tom Cruise’s character in “Risky Business” (1983). The former was a dirty shag in a baseball dugout and the latter was an exciting “coming-of-age” interlude with a high-class call-girl on a stairwell to cool music as the french-doors of the house dramatically blew inward by a strong wind.
What does it all mean? Male privilege? Art imitating life?
bailed
It means she was great in Last Exit to Brooklyn and Rush. Leaving Las Vegas should have been hers but Elisabeh Shue is not too shabby.
We don’t see movies like that anymore because – Marvel.
duh. Leave it to yours truly to insert the wrong
balebail while getting paramour right in the same sentencegorilla
deer
art guerrilla shat himself never to return. bye-bye. baby fucking killer, go die. i am tricking out my homestead shotgun for the likes of you,
A womans right to choose is the most important thing. Though why that right to choose doesnt include one of the many forms of birth control is beyond me.
In school i was taught it was the right thing and a no big deal solution. The worst mistake i have ever made was getting my high school girlfriend an abortion. I have no children. Turns out it was my only chance. She later commited suicide.
“The worst mistake i have ever made was getting my high school girlfriend an abortion. I have no children. Turns out it was my only chance. She later commited suicide.”
Oh, Lord. I am so sorry. Many of us have made terrible choices that we have to live with, including me. But your comment made me want to cry.
I am thankful that one of the few verses committed to memory happens to be Romans 8:1
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Yes, indeed Mary – “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” Yet, not everyone is in Christ Jesus. Perhaps this is what I would call a Divine Appointment.
Iwasntbornwithenufmiddlefingers
I am so sorry for the death of your friend who greatly suffered. But, also for you, as well. The guilt you carry has to be very hard baggage.
fingers —You need to know that guilt is right from satan who wants to rob you of the joy our Savior wants you to have in Him. There is One who does forgive. Seek Him with your whole heart.
Nothing can be changed that has already happened, but you can do something special going forward to honor your friends memory. Just a thought.
I will be praying for you and I am sure Mary Christine will also.
It’s interesting to me that people think being childless is the worst condemnation. Do they really think the world will somehow be improved by more copies of them? I find this kind of funny.
Heh. Get over yourselves…
Friend,
Have read the anguish in your comments before.
Remember these words from Jesus Christ:
Matthew 11:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
If you don’t have access to a copy of The Bible, most every area has a number in the phone book for The Gideons who will provide a copy for free. That is their mininistry.
FYI, b.c. is not 100% effective.
Mumbling of words allowed for abortion to be considered a privelidge. Just a killing. Plain and simple. Use the wording removal of a nuisance.
who do you believe is the most violent,the pro lifers or the pro choicers?
the 20″ video link below shows an 85yo man holding a sign outside an abortion clinic being brutally attacked–
https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/85-year-old-pro-lifer-savagely-beaten-outside-planned-parenthood-
clinic/?utm_source=Todd+Starnes+Newsletter&utm_campaign=dc26e6607c-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_03_26_05_35_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_92d26c77ee-dc26e6607c-112877833
Abortion is another ” gift ” we can lay at the hands of Jewish lawyers / Jewish feminism and the Freemasons that held the majority on the supreme Court for 35 years . These two together have been the biggest enemies of America. Google search it.
ultimately bb,
we have met the enemy & he is us,not them–
We, each of us, have a been given a brain to make good decisions with. And it comes with responsibility. And a moral code. Along with the Ten Commandments there is this —–
Galatians 5:22- 23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.”
That last one is a biggie…self-control which includes self control over our thoughts as well as our bodies.
I see a big push this year. Here in Germany, at the beginning of the year, we had the topic too, it was about the ban of advertisements concerning abortions. These days, it’s about organ donation. They gonna change it to opt out. If you don’t file your objection, you will be disemboweled, after diagnosed braindeath. These things can only be understood by the big picture.
In Oceania, we can now add another absurdity to Orwell’s list thanks to the billboard ads from Planned Parenthood…
War is Peace / Freedom is Slavery / Ignorance is Strength…
And now
Abortion is Healthcare
Uncola,
I haven’t watched the movie or read the comments yet but here goes….
You mention worldviews which are critical and unique to each individual. I like how you showed both sides of the abortion debate.
I believe the “sexual revolution ” and the hypersexualized marketing campaigns and fashion industry have always played a role in this debate between a woman’s supposed “right” to get an abortion, even if this means without the knowledge or consent of the sperm donor.
Whatever your beliefs about promiscuity or the cavalear attitudes that are promoted about sex, and whether it is a one night stand or a fling, however we rationalize it in our minds, our bodies and spirits still make a connection, even for a moment.
Think about quantum physics breakthroughs with quantum entanglement and the spin of sub atomic particles dubbed “spooky action at a distance”…
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/08/more-evidence-support-quantum-theory-s-spooky-action-distance
Rationalization abound, but having a child is a gift! Hard work for sure, expensive, absolutely, but a gift and a window into you and your partners soul!
Sacrificing babies at the altar of convenience or Baal is equally foolish. If we reap what we sow, western civilization will harvest a big shit sandwich.
This could just be me being a paranoidist . . . er . . . person, BUT since the recent, on-the-chamber-floor “celebration” in New York regarding “up to the last minute” abortions, every time the subject comes up, I catch myself wondering if THEY have deliberated the nuances between the preventative pill through “live-birth” murder not only to increase the extinguishment of innocent life BUT ALSO to prepare doctors/society/us for the day when the government will mandate said procedures for “undesirables”, like eugenics, or as a punishment, or just because the gov said so, because Christians (for example) are bad for our “do as we wilt” culture. Think about the “obey grades” in China – where, in the past, abortions were mandated to fight “overpopulation” – how many of the people who are now being denied the ability to travel, to go to school, etc., will be ALLOWED to have children?
Good article. I posted it.
Thank you, Robert
“Accordingly, in the city where I saw the film, Planned Parenthood purchased billboards, as well, that said: “Abortion is healthcare.”
As a woman who has been a volunteer in the Crisis Pregnancy Center for several years; a Post Abortion Counselor helping with getting through the deep denial, anger to the eventual healing of abortion; standing outside Planned Parenthood and Family Planning Centers speaking with and praying for women and girls entering the abortion clinic with their heads downcast. Yet America forgets that there is the alternative of adoption. You won’t hear that from Planned Parenthood or Family Planning though.
Too quickly women think there is only one choice of abortion. When there are other, better choices, if she can’t or does not want to keep her baby. There are”drop-off places – no questions asked at any fire-station or hospital.
Men, also, can greatly suffer the affects of abortion, the loss of their child as well, when they could not stop the woman from killing their baby. Many men just go along to get along -and follow the current “choice” “its a womans body” rhetoric of abortion. No, no, no…..the mother and baby are two separate entities with each having their own heart beats, blood cells, etc. They are two separate individuals.
The greatest joy when praying outside the “abortuary” is seeing a young woman, tearfully, run – no make that fly – back outside after making the decision to keep her baby. The tears of great joy flow freely from all of us right there with her. Then, there is immense and loving help of all kinds. Baby cribs, diapers, food, shelter if needed, coming alongside, and in many cases being there in the delivery room as the young woman has no one else to turn to. There is no charge for any of it. It’s all freely given.
Too quickly women think that there is only one choice – abortion..when, indeed there are others.
The abortion rhetoric alone starts the denial very quickly. And isn’t it the “law” after all? But sometimes laws made are not moral laws. Not just or righteous laws. The denial is huge, the procedure is quickly tucked away and never spoken of again, even to friends or family. The denial and anger held in is devastating. And the consequences are life-long. One never forgets the child’s would-have-been birth date.
These are babies who will never drink a glass of cold milk; buy a refrigerator; walk down the aisle toward their beloved one; or pay taxes….or have children of their own.
America will reap the evil we have sewn, not only just here but all around the world. Remember, only 8 people out of many millions of people survived the flood in Noah’s day. Only Noah and his family were declared righteous. Only 8 – EIGHT – PEOPLE SURVIVED out of the millions.
We have been the very same as another much earlier generation in history when babies and children were killed as a sacrifice to the god Molech. Only for many years we’ve been sacrificing our children to another satanic god Planned Parenthood.
To truly understand this horrific death, and it is painful to the unborn child, make no mistake about that. Read “Immaculate Deception: The Shifting Agenda of Planned Parenthood” Watch or show to your church group, any group, the movie “Silent Scream”
It’s certainly not “healthcare” for the baby who did not have a choice in the matter of its death. When denial sets in women often turn to alcohol and/or drug use to mask the pain and anguish. Or become more promiscuous to stop their own pain. And family members may never know why.
There are many, many millions of “walking wounded” women who have had abortions, for whatever reason, that do not understand that their only hope is in a Holy, merciful and loving God Who offers forgiveness when we cry out to Him in pure heartfelt, sorrowful repentance. And turn from our sinfulness. He cradles our babies close to His heart. There is healing and forgiveness of such a sin if we reach out to Him. He knows our hearts. He knows our name. He knows our story.
Word, very well put. You sound like more than a post-abortion counselor. You sound like one who has been there. As a woman who as spent over 12 years in the CPC, post-abortion ministry myself, those are the types of things we always tell the post abortive woman who has finally taken the step to get help with her struggles with anger, numbness, bitterness, inability to bond with her children and so on.
Thank you, Mary Christine. There is forgiveness only in our Savior. No where else. And that includes the men of abortion who suffer the loss of his unborn child also.
We will never understand another persons trial in life, or another culture, until we’ve walked in those shoes, no matter what the situation. There is no greater gift or comfort, whatever the heartache might be, than to hear “I understand.”
In this life there are many heartaches and tribulations that will worsen as this age comes to its end. No one escapes life’s trials – no one – be it the death of a child or loved one, abuse in the home, racism, hatred and anger from others toward God’s creation, made in His image. We have all been there one way or another. The Almighty uses His own as His voice, His hands and His feet on this earth to come alongside the sorrowful and the hurting to say “I understand” and to walk alongside…because we care. May He richly bless you, Mary Christine.
+100,lengthen this & turn it into an article–
“These are babies who will never … buy a refrigerator”
JFC.
Don’t tell me this isn’t partially behind the new anti-abortion mania: the need for exponential economic growth.. the same thing behind all the pro-immigration nonsense.
Chubbles –
Nope, no hidden agenda just the truth. This is a child who will never grow up to be what it could have become. Whatever you read into it is your own issue.
Well, how are you to know “what it could have become”? A gambler? A drug addict? Desmond is Amazing? We don’t live in Lake Wobegon and all children are not above average.
Your own “issue” would seem to be putting your eggs (as it were) in the basket of a species which is destroying the planet and itself by extension.
I find something odd in depending on someone else, some future generation, to fulfill dreams one cannot fulfill on one’s own. It just smacks, to me, of the Little-League/Pee-Wee syndrome, whereby parents seek to valorize themselves via their children. Nagana happen.
I’ve recently found wealth in avoiding these sorts of aspirational strivings, which can only lead to pain and dis-satisfaction. “Would”, “could”, “should” are all phrasings which live in the sur-real, the un-real; they are not helpful to our current predicament.
If people could be different, they would, but they can’t, so they aren’t.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda
Yokes would be so disappointed if he could see the future; he should just resign himself.
I don’t know any woman who’s had an abortion who regrets it. This is part of the Christian “born sick and commanded to be well” phenomenon.. a never-ending grift.
Just as Jussie Smollet had a higher demand for racism than the available supply, what would Christians ever do if people weren’t human? Their franchise would dry up.
“I don’t know any woman who’s had an abortion who regrets it”
Is this something you talk with other women about frequently? Do you ask all of them if they have had an abortion? Do you understand that this is a lie we tell ourselves so that we can live with the fact that we killed our child?
The abortion rate according to the Guttmacher Institute is 1 in 4 women by the age of 44.
Mary Christine – This is from the Guttmacher Institute, an arm of PP –
http://www.numberofabortions.com/
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-report-suggests-over-1-billion-abortions-committed-pro-life-activists
“There simply isn’t anything close,” said Stephen Phelan of Human Life International. “Over the many years since this has become a practice, even legalized in many countries, you’re over a billion.”
“There’s definitely nothing to compare. The closest thing you’d get to it would be the atheist, socialist dictators of the 20th century; and even they, in their gruesome efficiency, were only able to kill somewhere between a hundred and a hundred-seventy million people. … There’s no comparison.”
But some articles tell us that number is declining.
MC, thank you and Chuggy Buggles for sticking around and providing mature commentary. I too, was surprised by that comment. It could be that women harden their heart after an abortion or something like that.
I was thinking of my granddaughter when I told my son not to trip if she ends up preggers one day. I said that some parents treat it like a crime when it’s really social conditioning that makes us abhor a very natural event – birth.
I can say from hearing of these things in my wife’s circle, other folks who are less Americanized are not scandalized when Suzie Q becomes pregnant at 15 and a granny at 30. I’m afraid some parents used to drive their kids to such desperate actions to save their ‘honor’. That’s almost the same as the Muzzie honor killings except it’s ok to kill the unborn.
Over at my blog, I had some women readers respond back on the e-mail distribution for this piece with the word “REMOVE” in the subject line.
But then I also had a few opt-in requests today as well.
In any case, I didn’t mean no harm.
It is hard for women who have had abortions and have not found healing after the fact. An article like yours can trigger emotions, flashbacks, nightmares and other PTSD like symptoms related to the abortion. They will do anything to avoid talking, reading or hearing about it.
Sez you from on high.
I will talk about it all day long.
Frequently, no. But I have talked to women about it. That 1/4 figure is probably about right.
BTW, from the image accompanying this post, I see one possible lady “of color” in the pictured crowd. All the rest seem to be white, and the film seems to involve white protagonists. I can understand why this would appeal to a white audience, given our demographic situation.
To what extent is the angst here reserved for potential *white* births, versus the many PoC births avoided by accessible abortion?
If potential non-white births were seen to be avoided by abortion to a greater degree than potential white births by any significant amount, would anything change in the reactions posted here?
Do you really want all [for example] black women’s pregnancies to result in live births?
Do you?
Really?
I’ll be interested to read your responses.
most pro lifers are aware that blacks & latinos have higher % rates of abortion than do whites but a child is still a child–
the later it gets the more bizarre your comments,quit drinking & go to bed–
I am just trying to sort out the “fear of white genocide” factor from the “never can have too many people on the planet no matter what because jesus” factor.
I am not sure what you are implying, Chub. Since Johnson’s “Great Society” was imposed upon us, plus the advent of legalized abortion, the black family, which was quite stable before that, has been decimated and black out of wedlock births have exploded to above 70%. The two go hand in hand. The demographics of black abortions as opposed to other races is very high. Planned Parenthood, which was nothing more than a push for eugenics in the beginning, targets minorities.
A pro-life organization called Life Dynamics cared enough about this issue to make a 2 1/2 hour documentary. You might learn something if you watch it.
Mary Christine – that was Margret Sanger’s purpose in the first place. Tragically, she has succeeded well beyond her expectations. And we ARE NOT the better for it. I don’t think Chub wants to learn anything other than feed his own prejudices. The same God who created people of any race, color or creed…created him, all of us, as well. We all bleed the same.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/
Your right, Wordy. However, I think Chuggy is just pointing out that very thing. When Sanger started her killing machine, nobody gave a shit because the purpose was supposed to keep the blacks from becoming too numerous. Then the do-gooders started to promote abortions for all and soon the white majority was hoisted by their own petard when the baby genocide started.
Well that is a rather crude but true response to Word. You sound like an asshole, EC
Word.
Et tu, Maggie?
Sorry to disappoint you. I shall now give myself 20 furious pain-inflicting lashes with a single strand of hair. Ouch.
Chubby Bubbles asks;
‘Do you really want all [for example] black women’s pregnancies to result in live births?’
But your understanding of that and your apparent acceptance of abortion means, in a way, that you’re an advocate too. What are you advocating for, Chubby?
All of your comments contain logic. But are they true?
RE: Abortion, Race, Stories, Logic & Truth
The very last embedded link of this piece served as attribution for its final written quote. It was from a black young lady, named Shawanna, whose story regarding her first abortion seemed quite similar to Abby Johnson’s in the movie “Unplanned”:
Girl meets boy, they make love, she gets pregnant, and then must choose between motherhood, abortion, or adoption.
Also in the same final link embedded into the above article, there’s the video (below) where Shawanna explains these options and says “abortion” was the “right choice” for her ‘at the time”.
Although Shawanna explains in the video why she chose abortion, she does not go into any detail as to why she didn’t seriously consider adoption.
Therefore, the viewer is left assuming the decision was based upon convenience?
Again, very similar to Abby Johnson’s experience.
It’s also interesting to note that, like Abby, Shawanna went to work for Planned Parenthood afterwards.
But now, Shawanna’s video remains on the Planned Parenthood website, as Abby’s ministry, “And Then There Were None” actively seeks to help Planned Parenthood workers leave the abortion industry.
Movies in the mind. The stories we tell ourselves. Ripples in the pond.
I’m advocating for realism.
If my statements are logical, then they are true within the confines of logic.
But people don’t think or act based on logic most of the time.. they respond emotionally. Hence you have this crowd (TBP) generally bitching about there being too many blacks and immigrants while at the same time wringing their hands over abortion. In each case, something is pushing their buttons, but the logical conclusions made on an emotional basis are contrary to one another.
It’s the same kind of illogic that has leftists being pro-feminism and pro-Muslim at the same time: it just does not compute.
Chuggy, emotions aside, there are some folks here who bitch about blacks and such (BB) but if the articles don’t piss you off then Admin is not doing his job.
You are presenting a liberal view, it’s not liberal in itself but simply that it isn’t popular here, that makes it liberal.
What we have here and elsewhere in government is solutions looking for a problem. They cranked up the killing machine and felt like they had to keep feeding it babies like it was a sink disposal run amok.
We have militarized cops and now we have to find uses for them. We have legislators and we have to find conspiracies to keep them employed.
We have racists and we have to import illegals to keep them happy since they can not keep beating the same black horse or gender-benders in the new reality.
That’s hilarious.. thanks.
I have a lot of opinions along the lines you state.. systemic (thermodynamic) reasons why everything becomes less aligned with stated goals and turns to shit. Too long to burden this already over-burdened thread.
Chubby Bubbles says:
I gotta say, that thought crossed my mind as well. But – I do believe there are lines of separations between physical death as opposed to the cultural death which we address daily on this forum.
Because, for me, in the end, it’s all about liberty, tyranny, life and death.
Who decides?
At first glance, this article could be just another movie review. But, on the whole, I believe it addresses many more pertinent aspects to this Fourth Turning – which, in turn, is quite appropriate on a burning platform as the games begin.
Is it all in the minds of the beholders?
“For me, in the end, it’s all about liberty, tyranny, life and death.”
Well, for me it’s about the same thing. Birth control being illegal wasn’t all that long ago—it was within my lifetime—and those restrictions are made arbitrarily by people other than me, who believe in an abusive sky daddy who “loves” them but constantly threatens them with abandonment and everlasting torture.
Your article talked about honesty and truth. Reading here, a significant number of people have an invisible friend with an hispanic name. Thousands of religions, clearly not a one of them true, yet religionists will tell you what “truth” is. Unless everyone is of the same religion, Uncola, you are not going to get the “truth” synchronization you are looking for.
It’s simply impossible to have anything resembling liberty in a theocracy, which is why the FF were unique at the time in explicitly booting religion out of the driver’s seat. It only doesn’t appear radical to moderns, though it was, I believe, shocking to contemporary sensibilities. That the FF were able to carve out a novel sort of moral space is certainly heartening, but—like all things—this moral space, like all moral spaces, is subject to corruption and decay, changing demographics or audiences (like on campuses these days, rejecting freedoms of speech and association).
As for life and death, in the real world nobody has a “right to life”. As I’ve stated before in these pages, I no longer believe “rights” exist: “rights” are either a.) what is conceded to you by others or b.) what you are able to claim and maintain by force. I may think I have the right to pursue happiness, but a Somali pirate (or policeman) may have other thoughts on that score. Freedom of religion may be proclaimed a “natural right” in the US or in the West generally, but Saudis and Chinese (among others) don’t give two shits about that. You may think you have the right to say anything you want on a federally-funded campus, but it turns out you don’t. What kind of “right” is it, if it is unenforceable by design or due to the relative weakness of the claimant?
Going forward, there are going to be a lot of assumptions challenged as our “New Americans” claim their own “rights” (to polygamy, FGM, halal food, pubescent cousin marriages, sharia courts, etc.). Their morality is strict (gays and adulterers get the death penalty, women aren’t allowed autonomy). Does that make them more moral than the West? If not, why not?
===
Morality is clearly contextual. If it’s contextual (like the rape&incest abortion waiver some religionists will CONCEDE, or like the “slaves are 3/5 of a human” compromise) then it’s not absolute nor internally consistent. If it’s not internally consistent, then (for me) it doesn’t hold all that much value.
What’s clear to me is that humans will use morality as a cudgel, without too fine an appreciation for particulars. Hence Trump/Kavanaugh are horrible pussy-grabbers but Clinton/Biden are just doing harmless cute boy-stuff.
The woman who hauls around her literally brainless spawn meat deserves pity, not canonization.. though canonization is what she’s after. It’s a kind of power—is it not?—to be Holier-Than-Thou. Who can say a word against her?
The game of life is all about power, not morals. Morals only exist in service to power.
condoms have been available for thousands of years.
saying the birth control was illegal a very short time ago is….
bullshit.
**You** stop with the bullshit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut
This was a law that prohibited ANY PERSON from using “ANY drug, medicinal article OR INSTRUMENT for the purpose of preventing conception.” Struck down by the USSC in 1965.
You just don’t have any idea of what people (women) had to go through to get birth control before the 1970s. To get a diaphragm, you needed to go to a doctor who would prescribe it, in a state where it was legal to prescribe (usually to married people only).
Men’s scrupulous adoption of the somewhat-less-restricted (although still illegal-in-CT-until-1965) condom has historically been -shall I say- less than universally enthusiastic.
Is there something about “condoms illegal in Connecticut until 1965” that you don’t understand?
from wikipedia…
so you were right, sort of, although the implication from you wrote was that they were not widely available. Yet they were…
Women 100 years ago were gettin’ their groove on…
and as for Uncola theological bent well you sir are offside..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_condoms
Opposition to condoms did not only come from moralists: by the late 19th century many feminists expressed distrust of the condom as a contraceptive, as its use was controlled and decided upon by men alone. They advocated instead for methods which were controlled by women, such as diaphragms and spermicidal douches.[2]:152–3 Despite social and legal opposition, at the end of the 19th century the condom was the Western world’s most popular birth control method. Two surveys conducted in New York in 1890 and 1900 found that 45% of the women surveyed were using condoms to prevent pregnancy.[2]:173–4 A survey in Boston just prior to World War I concluded that three million condoms were sold in that city every year.[2]:192–3
The key is the last bit…
3 million were sold each year in just one fucken city.. and of all places Boston at that.. a place full of Mickeys
too funny
oh yeah here is a fun fact
Current law in Alberta states that it is against the law to paint a wooden ladder.
You need to get to work to strike down this cruel law.
Ok, men could get (illegal) condoms, but women couldn’t get anything. That sounds Great!!
WOMEN were not “using condoms”, fyi. A woman in the 19th c. was not going to casually be given condoms at the local pharmacy, even if she could have persuaded her partner to avail himself of them.
The fact that couples were using condoms (ILLEGALLY AND IMMORALLY) does not exactly strengthen your argument from a morality standpoint, imo.
yeah whatevah still
3,000,000 per year in Bawston…
pretty impressive
and here is some moar great news!
We were both wrong!
And what aboot diaphragms.. you are wrong on that one…
Seems they became legal in 1936
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragm_(birth_control)
Diaphragms played a role in overturning the federal Comstock Act. In 1932, Sanger arranged for a Japanese manufacturer to mail a package of diaphragms to a New York physician who supported Sanger’s activism. U.S. customs confiscated the package, and Sanger helped file a lawsuit. In 1936, in the court case United States v. One Package of Japanese Pessaries, a federal appellate court ruled that the package could be delivered.[46]
Who da thunk I’d be doing this type of research tonight..
but that’s why I luv this place..
I need to go to bed now. Have to get rest.
Have a wooden ladder to paint in morning.
So glad to be living in Nova Scotia…. imo
happy to know that I won’t be accused of doing something illegal or immoral
Perhaps legal to import, but not legal throughout the US. Lucky you to be living in Canada instead of Boston, MA, where “Blue Laws” are still in force.
Since I came of age in Massachusetts, it’s keen in my mind.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/griswold-v-connecticut-1965-906887
What about legally “prohibiting birth control use altogether” don’t you understand?
====
there’s a reason 4 not painting wooden ladders,you can’t tell when the wood has rotted,don’t ask how i know that personally–
lol
oh come on do tell…
pretty please!
yeah I kinda figured that who knew that government would take it upon themselves to protect us from ourselves…
“condoms have been available for thousands of years.”
Evidently not in Canuckistan.
au contraire
1000 years ago they’d just skin a beaver or two…
or so I’ve been told…
Au contraire, Chubby B. This thread has come along famously; and I’ve immensely enjoyed your very thought-provoking commentary thereupon.
Just as wisdom is knowledge applied to experience, I’ve often wondered if common sense isn’t morality applied to context.
It still starts and ends with values and there is where accord is lost and found; regardless of religion.
At the same time, however, all arguments are rooted in theology one way or another.
And when there are no answers only choices remain.
Read this tonight.. I liked it..
But there are always people who want to limit the choices. Morality comes from power; it does not precede it.
but that doesn’t apply to you.
You are above the fray.
Gimme a break..
your worldview is imposing morality..
Your power does not precede it…
I have no power.
I also make no claims about morality.
What is “my worldview”, according to you (since you seem to be intimate with it)?
What am I imposing?
Oh Lordy! someone got triggered…
Look
We all have a moral compass.
Problem with you is yours is buried in your ass.
I am triggered only in your imagination.
You didn’t answer my questions: what is my worldview, and what am I imposing on you?
Opinions
I’m imposing my opinions on you? Oh my, that is a terrifying power.
Do you need a Safe Space?
Not at all..
It’s surprising to take a glance at your inability to see.
Strange… Chicken or Egg I don’t see any difference
Opinion imposes on morality.
And
Morality imposes on opinion.
Using the Associative Law
The imposition is
Subtracted from both.
There is no space
between Yourself
And those who Preach
From a book
The only arguments being
In a place you’re not seeing.
And don’t worry about me.
You’re my safe space Chubby
I’m glad you left things open-ended. I don’t mind downvotes, but I’m surprised some of my comments didn’t get a reaction either way, such as “most women—strangely enough—just don’t want to end up like a Duggar, in broken health, with 2o kids, but without the media millions.” No one willing to weigh in one way or the other on that scenario.
@ Chubby,
I think it’s because most people here might not be aware of the Duggars?
I just searched for them and saw they had 19 kids and a TV show from 2008 to 2015. Then it was discovered their older son had molested some of the younger girls in the family and it all went south.
But, according to their website, they are still a family doing family things in spite of multiple scandals through the years.
The all-American modern family.
As to the rest, never judge a book by its cover, a blog-post by it’s comment count, or a comment by its votes.
My guess is that you got more reaction then you might know. Your perspectives definitely made this blogger check his premises.
It has been a very gratifying and thought provoking thread. Much to ponder…
I’ll just pop in to agree this is THE thought provoking thread many of us have been waiting for… I expected MC to beat you to it but you are one quick little jfish.
Just
“It’s called the Experimental Method“, they said.
“Some call it science“, they said.
“What could go wrong?”, they said.
61-Year-Old Woman Gives Birth To Own Granddaughter For Gay Son Using His Husband’s Sister’s Egg
That was a TBP article not too long ago, Untimely.
Yeah. Someone on that thread called it “peak white woman”. I wonder how it’s all gonna end?
And I’m serious here: Is this why Billie Jo MacAllister jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge?
How’s this, farmer? I’ll come up with a signal at the onset whether I’m on or off today and whether that makes for prose worth reading. And I’ll keep it short at least until this Lent commitment thing is over and while collecting that stuff in Columbia Maryland might be easy for my Novena-praying pal, it ain’t so easy out here where we hang our warshin’ on the line beside the garden.
Lint, that is. Don’t you think Nipsey Russell should come and kick both Jussie and the Hussle tyke’s asses?
check the box in a few days. ~l
Just got back from putting the family dog down, the really old one. Tough morning.
I was quoting old Nipsey Russell poems the other day when that rapper got clipped. It appears that no one has ever heard of him before.
That’s a tough thing to go through. We have an 11 year old who has really slowed down. I dread that day.
MC
Putting down one of our own “family” 4 legged, very loyal and loving members is heartbreaking. I have 2 oldsters – 14 and about 16 – that are heading that way very soon.
The loss is great.
JDAWG was seven. I pulled a tick off Jake the other day… they will be bad this year with all the rains.
Maybe ‘rapper’ is just a convenient filler for the box labelled ‘occupation’.
I did the same not too long ago. Third time. It gets no easier. Sorry farmer…
My condolences to you and yours, HF. Family pets are gifts of moments and memories. Hard to let go and good to remember.
So so sorry, HSF, I’ve met that dog and it was loyal to a fault. There’s nothing worse besides God forbid losing a human family member (because the dog is a family member). Dogs are a gift from GOD. Never doubt that. I think of the ones I have lost every day, and am grateful for every day I got to spend with them. They just don’t last long enough. I am more at one with my dogs than most humans.
Sorry HSF.. that sucks.
Two years ago, I put the JDAWG down myself with my husband outside in the rain digging his grave, unable to be in the house watching his constant seizures due to the Ehrlichiosis. For two hours, I tried to calm the dog and continued to give himvali um and the sedatives the local vet had provided to calm him during seizures. At one close to final point, he struggled to walk to me but his back legs were paralyzed and he whimpered while I cried. Jake, the other polar bear scatter rug I have around here, came to his “brother,” woofed at him or me softly and JDAWG lifted his head and woofed back. For a few seconds, I was part of their conversation.
I watched my two Pyrenese guardians say goodbye to one another and put Jake outside. Then, I crushed JDAWG’s windpipe and stopped his heart while I counted his final heartbeats, amazed at how very strong his heart was in spite of the long struggle with disease the damn tick had left behind.
My husband could never have done what I did. But, he did not grow up country. I did.
Trust me. For a while I needed some serious meds.
Perhaps I still do, but I’ve quit taking them and yes, MC… cold turkey was a bad idea.
This guy walks in the stars now…
dd wrote,
“I watched my two Pyrenese guardians say goodbye to one another and put Jake outside. Then, I crushed JDAWG’s windpipe and stopped his heart while I counted his final heartbeats, amazed at how very strong his heart was in spite of the long struggle with disease the damn tick had left behind.
My husband could never have done what I did. But, he did not grow up country. I did.”
i’ll bet if nick gets any chronic health problems that he starts sleeping in a separate bedroom behind a locked door–
tell this to an eleven year old impregnated by her father, or the 12 year old gang raped on the way home from school, or the 50 year old in the throes of menopause who may end up having a Down syndrome baby to care for on SS. There’s a reason why every dog is entitled to one bite, and why they put erasers on lead pencils.
Cruel, rare exceptions that should have been written into Roe v. Wade legislation framework.
Go back, and re-read all of HSF’s comments.
Perspective.
Misuse of what’s deemed legal and justified.
It was only supposed to be in rare and extenuating circumstances.
But give a Liberal some rope and they will spin it into a yarn..
Saddest slice of the Roe v. Wade decision was that in aftermath the woman who was focus admitted that it was all a lie.
Norma “Jane Roe” McCorvey lied about being Raped.
Never had an Abortion
And is now a Pro-Life Activist.
Talk about strange twists in a sad story..
https://nomoremisandry.blogspot.com/2016/04/norma-jane-roe-mccorvey-lied-about-rape.html
The story was and still is circling the drain of contempt…
Babies are not pencils keep..
And since when did God die and make you Queen.
Quick question
How many cats do you own…
https://npcdaily.com/1571/intolerant-christian-baker-under-fire-for-not-baking-abortion-cake-for-teen-on-christmas-eve/
Graphite pencils, the inventor attached the rubber eraser to make it easier for correcting tabulations errors, he did not anticipate that people would make so many mistakes of their own. I get your drift, you are pro-abortion.
Why do the trolls always bring up the .005 percent and not want to address the rest. They are so fucking predictable. Keep your mouth shut so I don’t stick the barrel of an 870 tactical down your throat. Comparing an eraser to killing humans, just fucking priceless.
I’ve been watching SJWs trying to create rules by arguing exceptions since the 60’s.
At least now that style seems to promote eye rolls more often than serious consideration.
I hope that trend continues.
Thanks Luv
You said it way better than me…
Between a doctor and the patient really did mean “between the doctor and the patient” once upon a time.
The federal government needs to die.
That was an excellent article cola…
This distills the dilemma.
BEST: Both parties placing a higher priority on honesty/facts/truth
WORSE: One party placing a higher priority on honesty/facts/truth
WORST: Both parties placing a low priority on honesty/facts/truth
WORSER: Planned Parenthood exists to breed ignorance with contempt.
With regards to the truth..
The older one gets
the further the Best
gets from view..
Honesty, Facts
and Truth
now matter less
In a world that exists
Trading agency
for choice
with Denial
the Key.
“YOU NEVER KNOW WHOSE EYES GOD IS WATCHING YOU OUT OF AND ITS NOT GOING TO BE WHO YOU THINK IT IS.” Denver Moore
The tongue is the messenger of the heart.
Famous masterbator Louis CK had a pretty good bit years back about abortion either being like taking a shit or murder. His analogy in the comedy seemed a bit like shifting straight into 5th gear from 1st with a manual transmission, forcing me to admit that it’s murder and we can do better. Ron Paul gave a great speech years ago during his campaign. I believe it was the 2012 campaign where he had his own rally (I think it was while the RNC Convention was happening, but not sure). He mentioned that certainly a libertarian-minded person could and should be anti abortion, that we have got to consider new technology and options for “unwanted” babies, that in a free society government mainly exists to protect liberty AND also to protect life–which most certainly includes the unborn.
We’re being programmed to accept murder. Devon Stack’s YT video regarding “The Cider House Rules” has been mentioned here before and is an example of this programming. If you’ve not seen the video, it’s worth your time.
thx for the nudge. I’d just recently seen the movie, but not Stack’s video.
IMO, Devon’s right up there, with a few others, putting out some quality analysis and reveals.
Kind of surprised he hasn’t been censored (yet). Surely he’s had ad revenue defunding like Admin.
He closes each vid with a petition for donations, and deserves consideration by viewers who agree.
Ditto, for O.B.
For those who may be interested, a link to the video EK refers to. It fits here for Doug’s musings.
https://blackpilled.com/2019/01/sacrifice-rules/
Actual video
While surfing at my desk just now, I let the vid play via a minimized window on my system.
It is a pretty astute dissection of “Cider House Rules” – a movie which, in and of itself, is the implantation of new rules into the mind via film. Using emotional scenes as a cognitive override of sorts – subtle language, and even a movie in a movie, seeds are sown like in a secret garden.
As Devin points out, Michael Caine, as the abortion doctor, says: “Some woman deliver (babies) but others need to be delivered“; as if from a monster. Then the movie “King Kong” is shown as playing in the orphanage. A story about a woman who needs rescuing from a beast who, obviously, doesn’t fit into her life.
Also interesting is how the incinerator plays such a central role in the narrative; as if it’s a nod to the sacrificial fires of the ancient Canaanite god “Moloch”.
One wonders if the subtlety is by accident or design?
Because the 1927 futuristic dystopian film, “Metropolis” (which still greatly remains in favor among the modern societal elite & relevant in advertising, music-industry, etc) actually shows a visual representation of Moloch complete with the name onscreen.
Movies in the mind. The stories we tell ourselves. Ripples in the pond.
Is it all just an illusion?
No, no, no…abortion is perfect…it eliminates human beings so that OTHER human beings can take their place…THIS is the immigration “debate” in a nutshell. We’ve murdered MILLIONS only to allow OTHER millions to “replace” them. We live in a sick, deviant, society. We will pay a price for the worship of DEATH over LIFE.
My wife once had to take medicine to eject a miscarriage. The options were instrumented surgical procedure or chemical ejection (I forget the actual term). They said the chemical route would take longer, and hurt, but wouldn’t require any cutting. I assume that medicine is what the author is mentioning above. The pain those pills caused her was unbelievable. There were points where she was writhing on the floor, screaming and moaning, and bent over on all fours by the pain. At one point, all I could do was sort of drape myself over her back while she was on all fours in agony, trying to somehow hold her and somehow ease the pain. There was no way to help and eventually we went to the E-Room. The E-Room took so long, by midnight, when we got seen, the pain was already subsiding. What an awful experience for her and pretty awful for me, too, as a mere observer. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
My SIL had a miscarriage. She put it mildly; it’s hard on the body.
Your story is terrifying.
I don’t like infanticide, and I can’t imagine killing a child, especially now that I have one, but I couldn’t help thinking about the other side of the issue. One thing sticks out to me.
What if those millions and millions of unwanted persons (58 million estimated) were here among us? 311+ million Americans is already a lot of Americans. I can only imagine how rotten the morning commute would be with all those extra unwanted millions of Americans hanging around. A huge % of those potential people are ghetto births (estimates are 20million. I’ve heard 40 million inthe past). What would this nation look like if there were, say, 20 million more blacks crammed into it? All things being equal, I think it would be even worse than it is now if they were all here. Could the welfare state even support 20 million more hungry mouths?
It may be awful, but abortion might have kept otherwise terrible people from being born. A lot of those potential births would have been to people who are already bad candidates for parenthood, so there’s a chance we dodged a genetic bullet. And it may be a useful pressure valve, keeping a lid on an otherwise massive problem. If the communists of today were looking at another 50 million largely underprivileged asshats to mobilize, their quest might be a whole lot easier to achieve.