The Siege at Ruby Ridge is often considered a pivotal date in American history. The shootout between Randy Weaver and his family and federal agents on August 21, 1992, is one that kicked off the Constitutional Militia Movement and left America with a deep distrust of its leadership – in particular then-President Bill Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno.
The short version is this: Randy Weaver and his wife Vicki moved with their four kids to the Idaho Panhandle, near the Canadian border, to escape what they thought was an increasingly corrupt world. The Weavers held racial separatist beliefs, but were not involved in any violent activity or rhetoric. They were peaceful Christians who simply wanted to be left alone.
Specifically for his beliefs, Randy Weaver was targeted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) in an entrapping “sting” operation designed to gain his cooperation as a snitch. When he refused to become a federal informant, he was charged with illegally selling firearms. Due to a miscommunication about his court date, the Marshal Service was brought in, who laid siege to his house and shot and killed his wife and 14-year-old son.
Randy Weaver was, in many ways, a typical American story. He grew up in an Iowa farming community. He got decent grades in high school and played football. His family attended church regularly. He dropped out of community college and joined the United States Army in 1970. After three years of service, he was honorably discharged.
One month later he married Victoria Jordison. He then enrolled in the University of Northern Iowa, studying criminal justice with an eye toward becoming an FBI Agent. However, he dropped out because the tuition was too expensive. He ended up working in a John Deere plant while his wife worked as a secretary before becoming a homemaker.
Both of the Weavers increasingly became apocalyptic in their view of the world. This, combined with an increasing emphasis on Old Testament-based Christianity, led them to seek a life away from mainstream America, a life of self-reliance. Vicki, in particular, had strong visions of her family surviving the apocalypse through life far away from what they viewed as a corrupt world. To that end, Randy purchased a 20-acre farm in Ruby Ridge, ID, and built a cabin there.
The land was purchased for $5,000 in cash and the trade of the truck they used to move there. Vicki homeschooled the children.
The Weavers Move to Ruby Ridge
After moving to Ruby Ridge, Weaver became acquainted with members of the Aryan Nations in nearby Hayden Lake. He even attended some rallies. The FBI believed his involvement in the church was much deeper than it actually was – they thought he was a regular congregant of the Aryan Nations and had attended the Aryan Nations World Congress.
Both Randy and Vicki were interviewed by the FBI in 1985, with Randy denying membership in the group, citing profound theological differences. Indeed, the Weavers (who had some points of agreement with the Aryan Nations, primarily about the importance of the Old Testament) mostly saw their affiliation with the Aryan Nations as a social outlet. Living off-grid, the nearby members of the Aryan Nations were neighbors in remote northern Idaho.
Later, in 1986, Randy was approached at a rally by undercover ATF informant Kenneth Faderley, who used a biker alter ego of Gus Magisono and was currently monitoring and investigating Weaver’s friend Frank Kumnick. Faderley introduced himself as an illegal firearms dealer from New Jersey. Randy later encountered Faderley at the World Congress of 1987. He skipped the next year’s Congress to run for county sheriff, an election that he lost.
The ATF claims that in 1989, Faderley purchased two illegally shortened shotguns from Randy Weaver. However, Weaver disputes this, saying that the shotguns he sold Faderley were entirely legal and were shortened after the fact. The notes from the case show that Faderley purchased the guns and showed Weaver where to shorten them, which would constitute illegal entrapment. What’s more, the government preyed on the destitute nature of the Weavers, who lived in a small cabin in the woods with no electricity or running water.
The real purpose of the investigation was not to grab Weaver, but to use him to infiltrate a group in Montana being organized by Charles Howarth. In November 1989, Weaver refused to introduce Faderley to Howarth, and Faderley was ordered by his handlers to have no further contact with Weaver.
Randy Weaver Refuses to Turn Snitch
In June 1990, Faderley’s cover was blown. It was then that the ATF reached out to Weaver, stating that they had evidence he was dealing illegal firearms. They told him they would drop all charges if he would agree to become their new informant regarding the investigation of the Aryan Nations groups in the area. Weaver refused.
To coerce him into changing his mind, the Feds staged a stunt where a broken down couple were at the side of the road. Weaver stopped to help them and was handcuffed, thrown face down in the snow and arrested. He had to post his home as bond. Still he refused to become a federal informant.
The irony of the federal government’s desire to obtain informants within the Aryan Nations is that different branches of federal law enforcement and intelligence gathering occupied five of the six key positions in the organization. This means that the Aryan Nations were effectively a government-run shop, with agents spying on each other to ensure the integrity of an investigation – into an organization almost entirely run by the federal government.
The government had an obsession with the Aryan Nations due to Robert Jay Matthews, who was a member of The Order, a terrorist organization including members of the Aryan Nations. The FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team burned Matthews alive inside his own home.
Due to his ongoing refusal to snitch, Weaver was then arrested in January 1991, on illegal firearms sales charges. These charges stemmed from Weaver’s earlier “sale” of two shortened shotguns to Faderley, the undercover ATF agent – a sale which the feds later admitted constituted illegal entrapment.
Weaver’s court date was set for February 19, 1991, then changed to the next day. Weaver, however, received notice that his court date was not until March 20. He missed his February court appearance and a bench warrant was issued for his arrest. The United States Marshals Service wanted to allow Weaver the chance to appear for what he thought was his court date, however, the United States Attorney’s Office sought a grand jury indictment on March 14th – six days before his notice said he was due in court.
Already skeptical of the Feds after their repeated strongarm tactics, both Randy and Vicki saw this as further evidence that Weaver would not receive a fair trial. They increasingly isolated themselves on their Ruby Ridge farm, vowing to fight rather than surrender peacefully.
During the standoff, a voluntary surrender date was negotiated with the Marshals Service for October 1991, but the United States Attorney’s Office refused the settlement. The Deputy Director of the Special Operations Group of the Marshals Service, using evidence obtained through surveillance, believed that the best course of action was to drop the indictment, issue a new one under seal, and use undercover agents to arrest Weaver, who presumably would have dropped his guard. This recommendation was again rejected.
Shooting the Weavers’ Dog: The Siege of Ruby Ridge Begins
On August 21, 1992, six heavily armed, camouflaged U.S. Marshals went to the Weaver property with the purpose of reconnaissance. The Weavers’ dogs gave away the position of the Marshals, alerting their 14-year-old son Sammy and a 24-year-old friend of the family named Kevin Harris, who investigated what the dogs were barking at while armed.
Unsurprisingly, there are several accounts of how the shooting began.
The Weavers claim that the camouflaged Marshals fired first and refused to identify themselves. The Marshals claim that when they rose to identify themselves, they were fired on by Sammy Weaver and Kevin Harris. In yet another version of events, Marshals shot the Weavers’ dog Striker as he exposed their position and were fired upon by Sammy in retaliation.
Once the shooting began, Randy Weaver’s son, Sammy, was shot in the back by federal agents immediately after yelling, “I’m coming, dad!” as he ran back to the house. That is to say, he was fleeing the scene, not regrouping for another attack.
After this initial exchange, the FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team – sometimes disparagingly called the “Hostage Roasting Team,” due to their proclivity to burn down buildings – was called in to assess the situation.
Sniper and observer teams were deployed by the Hostage Rescue Team. A sniper aimed for an instant kill shot on Randy, but Randy moved at the last minute and the shot entered his shoulder, exiting through his armpit. He then fled back to the house from the shed where he had been viewing the body of his dead son.
A second shot missed Kevin Harris and hit Vicki in the head, who was holding their 10-month-old daughter at the time in her arms, a powerful image often invoked in the telling of the story. This same second shot hit Harris after exiting Vicki. An internal investigation found that the second shot was out of policy and that the failure to request surrender was “inexcusable.”
FBI Sniper Lon Horiuchi fired through a door without seeing who was on the other side of it – at people who were fleeing and posed no threat. He was later charged with manslaughter in these deaths, but the charges were dropped. Horiuchi was also involved in the Waco siege, and Timothy McVeigh printed up cards for gun shows encouraging people to target him. Indeed, McVeigh considered targeting Horiuchi and his family rather than the federal building. In 1995, he pleaded the Fifth when questioned about the matter by the United States Senate. His whereabouts are currently unknown.
The rules of engagement were changed on the fly to effectively encourage shooting anyone on sight. This included the remaining Weaver children, who were known to carry weapons 81 percent of the time. Once the siege began, none of the Weavers fired a shot.
The standoff lasted ten days, and involved between 350 and 400 agents who cruelly named their camp, “Camp Vicki.” They would routinely call out “Vicki, we have blueberry pancakes,” but claimed to not know that she was dead. Supporters of the Weavers and opponents of the ATF and FBI formed a vigil.
Weaver’s commanding officer from Vietnam, James “Bo” Gritz (who was currently running for President on the Populist Party ticket) acted as a mediator between the family and government agents. Radio broadcaster Paul Harvey intervened, offering to pay for a robust defense for Weaver if he surrendered. This was what led Weaver to abandon the standoff and surrender himself to federal authorities.
The Aftermath of the Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge
Weaver was charged with ten counts, including the original charges, of illegal firearms sales. His attorney, Gerry Spence, successfully defended Weaver against a host of charges, including murder, by using a self-defense argument. Weaver was ultimately only convicted of the charge of failure to appear, for which he was sentenced to 18 months in prison and a fine of $10,000. He was credited with time served plus three months. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all charges. These were the longest deliberations in Idaho criminal history.
Weaver sued the federal government, which avoided a civil trial by awarding damages of $1,000,000 each to the three surviving Weaver children and $100,000 to Randy. Harris eventually received a settlement of $380,000 after several years of appeals against a government who claimed they would never issue any payment to someone who had killed a federal marshal.
It is worth noting that the federal government took active steps to cover their tracks after the Siege of Ruby Ridge. The chief of the bureau’s Violent Crimes and Major Offenders Section pled guilty to attempting to destroy all copies of the FBI’s internal report on the siege. Federal Judge Edward Lodge penned a lengthy list of misdeeds, including fabrication of evidence and refusing to comply with court orders.
Deval Patrick, then-Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights and later Governor of Massachusetts, later found that federal agents had not used excessive force.
One of the biggest changes after the Siege of Ruby Ridge was a change in the rules of engagement. In October 1995, the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government Information ordered all federal agencies to standardize their rules of engagement, particularly as pertained to deadly force. Randy and his daughter Sara wrote a book about the events in 1998 entitled The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge. The family now live in Kalispell, Montana. Sara became a Born Again Christian in 2012, and forgave the federal agents.
There was, predictably, very little meaningful blowback on the United States Marshals Service or any other parts of the federal government. The Ruby Ridge Task Force delivered a highly redacted 542-page report. And the six marshals involved in the initial shootout were given the highest commendations awarded by the United States Marshal Service.
In 1997, the Justice Department declined to prosecute senior FBI officials for covering up the details of the case. Two FBI agents were prosecuted, one served 18 months in prison for destruction of evidence and the other had the charges dismissed. The second-in-command of the FBI was demoted and three other agents were suspended.
In 1996, Weaver offered his services to defuse tensions between the FBI and the Montana Freeman, however, this offer was declined. In 2000, Weaver visited the former site of the Branch Davidian Church that had been destroyed in another high-profile siege. He later offered support to Edward and Elaine Brown, who were resisting federal taxes at the time.
How It Could Have Gone: John Joe Gray
While it might be easy to take the cynical route and say that Ruby Ridge changed nothing (particularly in the wake of the Waco Siege, which took place a mere year after the Siege of Ruby Ridge), we have at least one example of the federal government admitting that it tread lightly to avoid another Ruby Ridge-like situation.
John Joe Gray is a sovereign citizen living on a 50-acre wooded ranch in Trinidad, Texas. During a traffic stop, he became involved in an altercation with Texas Trooper Jim Cleland. Cleland reached for a .357 in Gray’s car. His car was filled with anti-government literature, including pamphlets referencing bombing a bridge. After the altercation with the Trooper, he was charged with two felonies: taking a police officer’s weapon and assault on a public servant.
Gray promised to have no weapons while he was awaiting trial and posted bond. After the fact, a judge declared that his bond was insufficient. He then ordered Gray arrested. Henderson County Sheriff Ray Nutt stated that “This kook is not worth it. Ten of him is not worth going up there and getting one of my young deputies killed.”
So how long did local, state and federal authorities allow Gray to hole up on his ranch without any kind of armed confrontation? Just a few days shy of 15 years, in what was the longest law enforcement standoff in American history.
The charges were eventually dropped, under the premise that Gray had essentially served a 15-year house arrest term and that a militant confrontation in the style of Ruby Ridge didn’t benefit anyone.
While Randy Weaver’s stand might have made the Feds think twice about coming in guns blazing the next time they can’t strongarm someone – with an eccentric lifestyle and unusual beliefs – into turning informant, this is likely cold comfort for Weaver who lost his 14-year-old son and wife.
This is why those in the freedom, patriot, Constitutional, survival and Second Amendment movements remember this day. It is a chilling reminder of the predatory and aggressive nature of federal law enforcement.
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Very good article.
We were all shocked by that back then but Government brutality isn’t what we learned from it. We already knew that. That’s why we were forming those groups.
What we learned came out in the trial. The number of snitches the feds had planted and the fact that they were running some of the very groups they claimed to be policing. The snitches could sell all the guns and drugs they wanted to sell.
Why would anyone give a shit if yer rifle has a 16” barrel or a 10” barrel? This is just made up bullshit to entrap citizens. All gun laws are unconstitutional.
Read DOS 7277, it’s the only reason that batf still exists. That, and as an enforcement arm of the deep state!
Why would anyone give a shit if you have something that makes your rifle produce 136 Db instead of 165? A rifle suppressor makes it just barely below the requirement for hearing protection, although I wouldn’t recommend it for more than a few rounds. Main reason I want a 10-11 in barreled rifle is so its normal length with a suppressor on the end. Fuck all these people.
Exactomundo, just like the feebs fabricating “the republic of texas” fiasco.
Gotta love how our government entraps people but gets away with not calling it entrapment. They pull that same shit with wannabe muslim suicide bombers, mainly to make themselves look like they are doing something. In weavers case, I tend to believe him when he says the guns were the proper length, although Ishould also add that I don’t particularly care if a gun or piece of wood is slightly too short, because those laws are bullshit and unconstitutional. These so called ‘confidential informants’ are often times facing a litany of charges themselves and have every motivation to take some guns sold to them by another target and make a few ‘modifications’ to get their handlers their next target and move on. Or, as it appears here, the informant instructs weaver exactly where to cut and how to do it. If an actual FBI agent did it that would be entrapment, but an FBI agent telling his non-FBI flunky to do that very thing somehow isn’t entrapment.
I do believe thats how the only “terrorist” plots the FBI has managed to stop have gone down. Some hajji working for the FBI finds some stupid hajji kid that doesn’t like Americans and starts putting ideas in his head. “Hey, you should go blow up times square” and hands him the keys to a van filled with playdough. After a lot of encouragement, he drives the van there, the FBI catches him, and ‘ta-da’ they have caught themselves a terrorist. The fact that the plot was entirely their own making is overlooked, and somehow not considered entrapment.
dammit,this is wrong–
bush,sr was potus–
clinton was potus when waco occurred–
Reagan 1981-1988.
Bush Sr. 1989-1992 – Weaver in 1992.
Clinton 1993-2000 – Waco happened under Clinton, early in 1993.
Probably fair to point some blame at Bush for Waco, too,
The mock-up of the compound, at Ft. Hood, was made at least 6 months before the siege.
Thank you for the well written background. This was not the wake-up call it should have been.
McVeigh issues that one post-waco
This information may have been available by hitting one of the links in the article, which I didn’t do.
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum- article was a bit misleading…or I misread it. George ‘a thousand points of light’ Bush was pres….Clinton with Waco
Yes, this is the same Barr that is going to get the pedos……..as soon as he learns how to keep a witness alive..
Ordo..
Yes it was indeed read my lips Bush and the same Barr and the same even older Medical Examiner for Epstien. I guess we just need to vote harder to drain the swamp.
baggs,
i missed something–is the med examiner line just a throwaway line or was she a connected person?
Red..
Quick mind. She was just a throwaway to show old govt. workers never die. They just smell that way.
You cant vote harder because “voting harder” is really kind of an oxymoron. You must come up with another solution.
V.H..
I don’t vote any more but voting harder works well for the Dems. It’s not easy to vote 8 times in a day when you’re dead.
I’d think it would be easier when your dead. No need even to hold ones nose.
You saved me the trouble.
Jews of a feather like Barr flock together, and the Ruby Ridge event was overplayed and overdone.
Don’t pretend you know what actually happened unless you were there.
This event was not faked in my opinion, but definitely spun and misrepresented.
I lived nearby and it wasn’t faked. Then we still got 911 and the patriot act. Govt. still lies, cheats and murders citizens who don’t obey.
Lt. Col. Roy Potter was there to basically document what was going on, and he says it’s was real.
editor needs an editor…
Yeah, I don’t edit my comments. Have enough of that at work.
By the way, I gave you thumbs up for that. Making me eat my words.
Do you know Howell by any chance?
22. I was right down the street and was actively involved in the constitution, 2nd amendment and Militia movements well before 92. Randy w. was a neighbor in Kakispell breifly afterwords and a friend of my oldest nephew.
Who said it was faked? Did randy fly a plane into the trade center? Please be more specific about pretending.
I’ve heard several variations on the details surrounding Ruby Ridge. No conspiracy theory on this one and I’m not saying those folks where not eliminated in cold blood.
My only point is that events that end up with mythical status often have serious holes in the plot, or the narrative gets hijacked or re-purposed.
Waco and Ruby Ridge will be forever linked in many people’s minds and Waco was faked as all fuck: http://mileswmathis.com/waco.pdf
I used to believe those four ATF agents died (supposedly former Clinton bodyguards that were “eliminated”), but the whole drama was just a PSYOP to play with your mind.
22..
Ok.
No doubt Waco was a government op and McVeigh a sheep-dipped contractor who became the patsy….fucking Clinton! Ruby Ridge was just government murder of a citizen like LaVoy Finnicum.
Barr’s father hired Epstein to teach at the private school in Jew York
As Neil Young called it … a “kinder, gentler machine gun hand”, but no machine guns for YOU!
No true ability to control the sickos, the lame, or the lazy while Deplorables eat the responsibility to suffer the consequences.
Shut up. Trump is draining the swamp.
nice find /bravo, need we anymore proof of Barr’s swamp critter bona fides ?
This just shows the FBI should be disbanded and never replaced. They’re not needed in the age of the Internet when state and local agencies can coordinate efforts online. The number of federal laws needed to be drastically cut down to only a few. They’re simply duplicating state and local laws anyway.
Some of us have not forgotten.
Yes, as someone has pointed out, Bush I was president when Ruby Ridge was authorized. An FBI agent was convicted of destroying evidence of FBI crimes and was sentenced to prison.
The definitive book on Ruby Ridge was written by the late Alan Bock, a real reporter for a newspaper in Orange county if memory serves. It covers the siege and the trial. Gerry Spence was brilliant.
Ambush at Ruby Ridge : How Government Agents Set Randy Weaver Up and Took His Family Down
Careful.
They always fake-sentence someone to fake-jail in order to make it look like government is honest and accountable.
Seriously, they lie about the event, but later make amends by convicting wrongdoers in uniform (or just guys they don’t like).
much of this i knew but the part about the marshals office not wanting to go after him & the us attys office insisting i did not know–someone in that office had a vendetta 4 weaver–
That is more believable than the official story in some ways.
You never really know what went down when they have a total lock down on remote areas like this.
To me the Bundy Standoff was a PSYOP because since when does the government ever back down- unless it’s staged for effect to make people think they won? Remember how the whole drama disappeared when they played the “fake prosecutor misconduct” card and dismissed everything DOWN THE FUCKING MEMORY HOLE? All fakery from top to bottom just like Oj Simpson and Epstein.
The Bundy standoff was quite real. The govt backed off for a number of reasons: 1) they would have lost a LOT of agents, bc the folks there were armed to the teeth and had snipers well positioned to deal a staggering blow to the feds, and 2) there were way too many cameras going inside and all around the perimeter to hide any shenanigans. And 3) they knew that many groups were watching, and it would have set off a civil war, had they tried another Waco. 4) I may be wrong on this, but iirc, the courts were about to come down on The feds, bc Bundy was within his rights on the land fiasco. The simple fact is, the feds blinked bc the beurocrats in charge are cowards.
“The simple fact is, the feds blinked bc the beurocrats in charge are cowards.”
another simple fact is that bureaucrats/deep staters usually play the long game & know they can get their man in the end–
Yes, they tried that later on at the cluster ***** operation at the sit-in, where they killed the son, iirc. And they have yet to get Cliven, even though they continue to scheme.
Dan,
Did you come across the uranium ore angle while following the Burns, Or./BLM operation ?
It’s been a while, don’t have much time to site my sources or recall specific name of Russian mining co Rosatrom /Canadian Uranium One scandal starring Hillarion with supporting actor Mueller, but a quick grab:
“The Uranium One scandal is a controversy in which the Obama administration permitted “the sale of U.S. uranium mining facilities to Russia’s state atomic energy company,” according to NBC News. Multiple government agencies had to approve the sale and the Clintons were key players in securing the deal.”
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum- massive, and long standing freemason lodge in the Burns area, and the info for that lays deep in the rabbit hole….venture on in and you may be able to see all the ways the underground connections run
Hasta luego
Nope, it was a PSYOP even if that dude died. The Bundy family (Think George McBundy CIA duh!) goes way back and the whole prosecutor misconduct thing was laughably convenient.
i need miles to confirm the deep stuff like this,link please–
The biggest problem with Bundy ranch though is that for all the Bundy’s knew about law they never even tried to access the grand jury to have the asst ag, criminal crats, indicted even with all the evidence in hand. The Bundy’s accessing the grand jury was THE ONLY outcome that could have helped anything, but they didn’t even try. That made me suspicious of the Bundy’s and realize that they are just as lawless as every other dumbass American.
Reinstituting equal access to our grand juries to criminally indict the criminal terrorists fraudulently claiming to be ‘prosecutors, ‘judges’ ‘law enforcement’ and all other criminal crats is the only effort worth putting energy into to fix this terrorist criminal overlording, the Bundy’s had the evidence(and media attention) served on a golden platter and they did NOTHING!
God’s (the Law’s) Final judgement is coming, 27 years, 1 month and ?? days. Law masters inherit from there. Either the criminals who mastered (and manipulated) the law get the prize (Earth) or the righteous who bring the criminals to justice get the prize. Better master the law soon because you all are already losing – millions committing death penalty criminal offenses daily in America alone and the people do nothing. Not looking good for the lawless.
Beware of anyone too eager to sell you a gun.
No shit. So glad we put that safe first in the vault.
I would not give you access. I rner you said you would recon our stuff.
I still laugh.
I was referring to Fed. snitches trying to set you up.
I know. Bit…reminded of your comment longagofaraway.
Good article. It reminded me of those times a terrorist was caught before he acted. It was mostly the FBI setting people up with weapons or bombs and then busting these people.
It’s already been pointed out that Bush baby was the Prez then. The other inaccuracy in the article is the title. Ruby Ridge did not start the militia movement. We were alive and well but in small groups avoiding attention. Ruby Ridge caused it to explode all over the map. Even in Urban settings. By 97 our newsletter was all over the country, along with plenty of others. The Feds popped the militia bubble because of that explosion. Clinton, with a wink and a nod from the now Republican congress, sent the IRS and EPA around to visit the board members and presidents of the various movements like the Constitutionalists and 2nd amendment groups. Our attendance at our monthly meeting went from 150 to 6 in 3 months. People with families and property wouldn’t risk being seen with us anymore. That was back when the EPA was making a show of tying up property in court over endangered species etc.
Today those groups are well underground.
Hey, Flea……..
Have you heard of Elohim City, Ok ?
I posted a video of ‘A Noble Lie’ a couple of posts down. Have you seen it?
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum<<<—U.S. gov goin' for broke…..a 'new order for the ages'
Ordo.
Yes I saw it along with several others like it. It just confirmed what I suspected from day 1 that is was an inside job. Another in a long list of JFK, WTC and remember the Maine and Lucitania lies. I’m about at a point where I’m not even going to bother trying to tell anyone anything anymore. Don’t cast your pearls before the swine. Let the dead bury the dead.
I’m nearly at that point myself. A man spends literally thousands of hours looking into those things that make no sense at first telling…….only to learn the reasons why and have most look at you like an idiot as they buy the ‘hope-n-change’ slogan of the term….
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum-
I had a good buddy, rest his soul, who lived over in Three Brothers….he did some tradin with a group of CSA (Covenant, Sword, and the Arm of the Lord) boys that had a large, armed encampment in the hills way back in 70’s/80’s. The barrels were blue, but the stalks were green…if you catch my drift.
Saw it too.
We moved here.
Flea….
Downthread, nkit posted a link to another lewrockwell piece titled ‘Ruby Ridge and the Age of State Terrorism…….the reason I asked if you had heard of the Elohim City, ARA, infiltrated leadership….same type you mentioned.
It’s been so long, I can’t remember if some of the same info was in the documentary I posted, or not….a couple paragraphs from the nkit post:
“That tip primed a Freedom of Information Act Request that dislodged more than 250 pages of documents — all of them heavily censored — confirming that the FBI and other federal agencies (including the ATF, which had planted Carol Howe at Elohim City) had abundant and detailed advance intelligence of the 1995 bombing.
As is the case with any significant gathering of white supremacists, Elohim City was a wholly owned subsidiary of the FBI. In addition to Carol Howe (whose cover was blown by her handler when she actually tried to expose those responsible for the OKC bombing), the late Robert Millar, the cult’s patriarch, was also on the federal payroll.”
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum-
FWIW
Our FF meetings moved to a more private venue after a.visit.
You weren’t supposed to tell them that, damnit!
Am at the VA hospital. Hubs has a stress test. I said it would not be valid without me with him.
Am telling you that I just do not see a panic here. Maybe because we have all the decent food.
Let’s hope that Horiuchi dies and long,painful death .
Ruby Ridge actions led to Waco.
Waco led to the Murrah building destruction.
One man did that, and if he had shaped his charge a little differently, a whole lot more would have been done.
The Murrah building had explosives placed inside the building. It’s wasn’t a fertilizer bomb as you were told by the .gov.
It was a whole friggin’ truck filled with ANFO and TOVEX. It didn’t need any help whether it had any or not.
Watch the movie posted below by Ordo.
Am hoping it gets its own post.
No need. I know what happened.
There was a Ryder truck and there was fertilizer . I was told there were other bombs carried out. Rumor and conjecture but…
Waco was hoaxed.
Ruby Ridge and Murrah were really bad shit, but they they didn’t go down exactly as the mainstream had advertised!
Maybe so, but not it the way you may be thinking. It’s a long steep grade, and the Gmen are locked in low. On the other side of the hill they’re climbin’ is gun free citizenship !
You may not have ever seen the documentary ‘A Noble Lie’, but you definitely should:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSnQwi5ce9s
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum- it’s a plan that’s been in the works for a loooooooong time!
Ordo, thanks for re-posting that video. It’s been a long time since I watched it. Pisses me off all over again.
Hope someone bumps it. Not me though.
Thanks for the video comment, Ordo.
I had not seen that.
In a way, the bombing of the building reminds me of the US,
Being destroyed not from the outside, but from within.
More than one I think.
I never believe any account my government and the paid minions redact to cover their own asses .
We now have a government and law enforcement competitively combatively and continually attempting to entrap citizens in far to many instances to a point where no one should ever discuss anything or ever answer any questions to any level of law enforcement . Sadly too many good cops cover for bad cops so they then become bad cops . We cannot trust that any will not turn on the citizen . Couple that with prosecutors piling on charges and failing to disclose exculpatory evidence turns our judicial system and the presumption of innocence now on its head !
The party is over for the free republic especially since the bull shit patriot act wow what a convoluted pile of congressionally approved dung !
Sad memories, Randy Weaver’s family murdered for nothing.
And the perpetrators were awarded commendations now there is a shining example of who and what is allegedly top law enforcement people . How pathetic is that ?
Deval “P-uh-hat-trick” The Magic Negro.
Fucking Massachusetts connection again, just like Horiuchi from Quincy, MA which is fucking CHINATOWN SOUTH.
22.
Now that’s funny.
Maybe that’s why Llpoh doesn’t want to come back.
“Maybe that’s why Llpoh doesn’t want to come back.”
The one in the middle is Llpoh.
Thank You.
Where was James Comey in 1992 and 1993?
Comey was working in the U.S. attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York from 1987 to 1993.
M. Druid,
Comey was behind the ‘Roo’ labeled Federal Gov’t.
Today, they’d just declare you to be insane, and burn the naughty parts of your brain away.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/08/19/italian-psychologist-proposes-electric-shock-treatment-to-eliminate-prejudices/
AC..
It wasn’t that long ago that electro shock therapy was not unusual.
baggs,
they’re using electro shock again–
i have a cuz whose mid 20 s daughter gets it occasionally–
beautiful girl,was going to be an actress,had bit parts,became scizo–
it mostly stays under control but occasionally it flares up & w/newer med tech they can target where to shock so that the mind isn’t shattered–
Red..
Reinforces AC’s reply.
i won’t argue w/either one of you about the chance of govt using it on dissidents,any good technology can be used 4 evil purposes–
i was just throwing it out there that it can work–
Oh, I know. They want to bring it back, as Tampa said, with more accuracy than before – to be used on political dissidents (AKA, white people).
effin murderers….
……
………
Charles Whitman never shot anyone……
I had to look that one up. According to what I read, his brain tumor did the shooting.
OK, I think I see what you’re talking about. I hadn’t finished reading when I posted before.
Per the article I read:
“Together with the Watts riots of the early 1960s, Charles Whitman’s shootings were considered the impetus for establishing SWAT teams and other task forces to deal with situations beyond normal police procedures. It also led President Lyndon B. Johnson to call for stricter gun control policies.”
” I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts. ”
— Whitman. Charles Joseph Whitman…
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum- the former marine…..mid 1960’s……I always went to MK-ultra victim with this guy…..no proof, like most everything else
Yes, and I believe it was for gun control reasons as state above, just like today.
LBJ…
Worst President?
One of the worst of many.
I always saw both Ruby Ridge and Waco as warnings from the nascent communist government to potential active dissidents. Still do.
Lon Horiuchi didn’t shoot Vicki Weaver and Kevin Harris, or wing Randy Weaver. While Horiuchi is a no-good Jap bastard who is guilty of other maladies, he didn’t pull the trigger on Vicki. He took the wrap for a female ATF Agent, who naturally being female, was a piss-poor shot and couldn’t even hit the side of a barn with her issued .308 Remington 700 sniper rifle and 3×9 Leupold scope at 40 yards … which was the distance the fatal round was shot at Vicki, and hitting Harris.
Horiuchi, along with the Feds, knowing he wouldn’t be convicted of the shooting, took the wrap for the female agent … which, as we remember was during the finale launching stages of women’s lib and women entering into the ranks of law enforcement in America.
The female shooter was subsequently placed into “Other Federal Service” along with her husband, who was secretly placed by the Feds into a small-town Montana high School superintendent position, and later into another similar positions, which both placements of Mr. and Mrs. were spy ops on the local citizens and parents.
Sine I have first-hand intel, and if you don’t believe what I state, then I really don’t care. Just clarifying more lies the Feds continually cram down our throats.
“While Horiuchi is a no-good Jap bastard who is guilty of other maladies…”
Somewhat OT. He graduated from West Point – in 1978 IIRC… about the same time the academy began its long descent, much like the ivy league, into abject subservience to the NWO project with the admittance of women and compliance with racial and gender quotas. Since then academic and physical standards have been adjusted to be more flexible, the honor code softened to allow offenders a learning opportunity, gay weddings held in the cadet chapel, black females forming a caucus, dykish upperclass females barking in-your-face orders at stronger, taller, smarter men, etc etc. Tragic IMO . My apology for the rant.
So you noticed that, too. Bagheads and beards, Reds and womyn, and altered standards.
Yes, thanks for the rant, no apologies needed for stating the obvious.
One of my undergrad sons asked me one day why he was required to memorize the Norwich Creed. I told him he would understand as he got older , and would find the need to apply what he’d learned when the situation presented itself.
Why? There are people who heed no values or refuse to display the ability to meet a standard.
I don’t think you need to be apologizing for any reasonable rant, especially if it’s complaining about the ‘ gubment; that’s precisely what this site is for..?
Lots of military mixups due to women in command roles. Covered up.
B.S. Horiuchi murdered Vicky Weaver. I know this.
2 of my fondest days and best memories, first the day when I heard Janet Reno had died (and gone to burn in hell surely) and next was the day when Hillary got Trumped. I still giggle when I think of it.
We might gain a reprieve again on November, 2020, but it may be a small consolation to the dread the days after will bring.
There are an awful lot of things we should “never forget”.
do you guys remember steve stockman,hardcore gun rights congressman from texas–
how many of you know that he was sentenced last year to 10 years in federal prison–
was he set up or selectively prosecuted(persecuted) because he never backed down?
Red..
Why doesn’t your boy Donnie just pardon him?
?
potus’ are usually reluctant to pardon people ,esp republicans–
after 2020,it wouldn’t surprise me unless stockman was so guilty that it’s obvious to everyone–
i’m not sure exactly what he did so it could be selective prosecution or he might be a real bad boy–
The slaughter of Weaver family members and the slaughter at Waco were my “Kennedy”moment.I mentioned that to me dad when he told me his Kennedy moment and he apologized,said was his generations fault to a large degree that I had my gens “moment”
Never forget
Never forgive
I was home sick at 9 years old and watched the sacrifice in Dealey Plaza. I was in Walmart watching 30 or so big screen TVs when they burnt Mt Carmel. I was considering a trip to Idaho during the Weaver affair, but would have returned to an empty house. I have a cousin who was supposed to be at the Murrah building for a 9 am meeting, but stopped for donuts and was ten minutes late. so, yes all this bullshit has had an effect on me.
The only reason I’m still sane [ stay with me ] is I pray and He tells me “Be still and know that I am God”.
+1 !
Didn’t even need to finish reading, the article illustrates the banal evil the State truly is, well done
Good synopsis but a lot left out. Horiuchi, for his part, was defended against murder for his killing of Vicky Weaver as she stood holding her’s and Randy’s 10 mo. old daughter Elisheba in her arms. Vicky Weaver was shot in the face. Kevin Harris shot in the back but survived his wounds. 14 yr. old Sammy Weaver was also shot dead after having taken jackboots under fire he found hiding, UNidentified, in brush on the family property, and after his dog was also shot and killed. There was NO “threat to a helicopter” as testified even by fbi witnesses. More, Horiuchi for his part, was defended PRO BONO by the current A.G. Wm. Barr who got the murder charge against Horiuchi reduced to manslaughter which Horiuchi ultimately beat.https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/01/james-bovard/william-barrs-connection-to-ruby-ridge-defending-fbi-snipers/. Lon Tomohisa Horiuchi went on to Waco to work more of his magic and there would have also been charged with murder had not the barrel on his issued rifle been changed directly after action – the barrel was scrapped rendering bullet-barrel forensics impossible. If Horiuchi is still alive his location has been unknown though at one time he was reported to have been living in Hawaii. If you want to fill in a lot of blanks start here: https://seoklaw.com/legal-news/the-incident-at-ruby-ridge/
Both Horiuchi and his fbi cohort one Dale Monroe (also RR and Waco) retired on his fbi pension, as did Horiuchi, and went on to work for TROY INDUSTRIES and ultimately left employment there. Any of YOU still do business with them? BOTH Horiuchi and Monroe said they’d do nothing differently if both siege’s had been repeated. The surviving members of the Weaver Family sued .guv/Dept. of Just-Us and recovered $3.1m. Kevin Harris just $380K.
I believe horiuchi was working in Tennessee at the TVA as head of security till a few years ago. He is NOT forgotten…
George H.W. Bush was president in 1992. Bill Clinton was inaugurated in 1993.
And the point of this echo chamber history lesson?
On a good day, I’m a rampaging, anti-social bastard
from hell, and that’s with beloved family.
But even I have not forgotten the details.
Pathetic.
You are aware that the proxy Red Flag roundups have
begun?
Yes?
No, of course you’re not.
The shit that’s getting real are the proxy Red Flag(test)arrests that were made this past weekend(and an additional three yesterday).
Not surprisingly, the cuckservative blogosphere and it’s merry band of faggots, have yet to post a single
sentence regarding these arrests.
‘Three mass shooting plots were thwarted in recent days in the United States with the arrests of three men in unrelated cases, said authorities in Connecticut, Florida and Ohio.’
“In Connecticut, Brandon Wagshol, 22, of Norwalk was arrested on four counts of illegal possession of large-capacity magazines, the city’s police department said Thursday.” https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/19/mass-shooting-plots-thwarted-connecticut-florida-ohio-police-say/2048855001/
Oh my, Heaven forbid, he purchased “high capacity magazines”!!!
Be still my heart………clutch my pearls……..the vapors, the vapors!!!
Albert.
The first two came right out of the Pre-Crime lab in Palo Alto. The published their intent to commit mass murder.
#3 was found with “rounds of ammo” and semi auto weapons? my old remmington .22 auto would qualify. Anti- Semitic literature was found. Perhaps a copy of the New Testament.
Pre crime lab in Palo Alto = counterpart to TAPS ACT in Washington
MSM is reporting two were arrested after posting their intent to kill online and one told a girlfriend he wanted to do mass shootings. But who knows what really happened.
I would have liked if AG Barr’s involvement was included in this piece.
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/04/04/an-american-pieta/
Haunting pic.
Ruby Ridge was started by the ATF, and as usual, they screwed up their illegal operations, and called in the FBI to save their asses, and cover their illegal butts. Then, as with Waco, the feebs jumped in without checking any of the facts, and really screwed the pooch. Then, as usual, DOJ covered it all up. Nothing NEW to see here. Move along. And wait until history repeats itself.
That’s too mainstream for me.
I used to believe the feds jumped in too early and that those 4 dead ATF agents really died along with all those people.
Waco was an engineered, screen-written psyop when you cut out the bullshit.
I checked the facts about Waco: http://milesmwmathis.com/waco.pdf
K 47.
About 12 years ago at a gun show in MO I bought 2 books by Weaver………..I had just bought a AK47., Had a nice long chat with him about where our country is headed.
And after they slaughtered her, they (the Feds) called the Weaver property, “Camp Vicki.” Soul less bastards…
This is what inevitably happens when you have government agencies acting under color of law and not directly accountable to the people.
Our government is supposed to derive its power directly from the people, but agencies like the one outlined in this article are not accountable to the citizens in any way.
So ask yourself where do the powers and legitimacy of these agencies come from?
The only real legitimate law enforcement agencies in the US are those who are directly elected by, and therefore accountable to the people (Sheriffs) and all un-elected law enforcement is illegitimate and need to be disbanded. The people must maintain control over government or government will become tyrants, and the Citizens will become slaves.
The “powers and legitimacy” come directly from Abraham Lincoln and Co.
The first Tyrant and Chief.
More on “Camp Vicki” here:
https://libertarianinstitute.org/everything-will/lon-horiuchi-american-sniper/
I smell bullshit.
They had better fucking photos during the wild west era.
Absolutely positively no explanation or excuse for photos of Horuchi like that.
http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/randyweaver.htm
Find me some better photos Winnie-Magitta…please…
good link–every time i read one of these articles i learn a bit more–
Great link, nkit !
I read that back when, and was the reason I had asked Flea upthread, if he had heard of Elohim City….
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum
thanks
Ordo.
Another bit of history but this one from my career as a two bit hoodlum back east when I got home. I didn’t have my road to Damascus moment till 82. Prior to that crime was all I knew and did a lot of partying with the Pagans and Breed MC. Prior to the Rico act and creation of the DEA most plants and snitches were focused on the bigger fish. Leaving the gold standard coupled with the DEA and Rico opened up tons of money and laws to use against the chump change of the crime word and later to include Joe and Jane Sixpack. I’m going on experience and memory here but anyone with computer skills can trace what I’m saying all the way back to 72 or 73. We started noticing more people getting busted for small stuff as the decade progressed and we were all getting paranoid. Finally, as more guys were getting out of the joint and spilling the beans we all got a little more careful and it was not unusual for us to get a guy we suspected somewhere out of sight of the public and start beating the snot out of him to see if the cops suddenly arrived to save him.
Fast forward to the mid 90’s and Elohim City and now fast forward to about 2010 and the biker gangs. The pagans were the last of the big clubs to be co opted by snitches because they were so violent and unafraid to kill snitches. The Angels, Banditos and outlaws were all infiltrated by then. The significance of that was the Angels were allowed to take Pagan territory with impunity while the Feds and Locals used the new laws to jail Pagans so they couldn’t stop them. Now, all the bikers are fully coopted. Just like all the visible Mafias and Militias etc. The Cops use the “Give us three and you’ll go free” system. If they don’t cooperate it means loss of property, family and jail time. We are living under the New American Stasi.
The snitches are allowed to operate all the rackets they want. Whitey Bulgar is an example.
There is only one exception to the whole deal. The Jewish Mafia. One ring to rule them all.
It is frequently and deliberately referred to as the Russian Mafia but it’s not Russian.
sounds like fun…..
Just a note regarding accuracy; Bill Clinton was not the president in 1992. He took office in January 1993.
Ruby Ridge, just a long line of terrorism in the FBI’s book of crimes.
The same tactics used in Waco are currently used in the FBI’s murderous assault on targeted individuals in their renewed Cointelpro operations. Along with the age old tactics used in the original terrorism, stalking, assault, break-ins, druggings, they now include noise harassment, light harassment, sleep deprivation, rape and murder.
This program once again targets activist, whistleblowers, as well as ordinary civilians.
Much information is available from respectable sources.
Dr John Hall, M.D. and author
Dr Katherine Horton, PhD Oxford Univ. Scientist
Dr Robert Middlebrook, PhD Professor
Dr Harold Mandel, M.D.
Dr Daniel Lebowitz, M.D.
Dr Max Williams, PhD, Professor & State Dept
Dr Barrie Trower, PhD government Scientist
Dr Michael Hoffer, M.D., Univ of Miami
Dr Colin Ross, M.D.
Dr Ed Spencer, M.D.
Dr Sue Arrigo, M.D.
Dr Douglas Smith, M.D., Univ of Penn.
Dr Terry Robertson, M.D.
Dr Robert Duncan, PhD former CIA engineer
Dr Doug Rokke, PhD government Scientist
Dr Eric Karlstrom, PhD Professor
Dr Nick Begich, Scientist
Dr Paul Batcho, PhD government scientist
Dr Paul Marko, PhD Psychologist
Dr Robert Steele, former CIA analyst
Dr Ben Colodzin, PhD Psychologist
Dr Curtis Bennett, Professor
Dr Corkin Cherubini, author
Dr Sean Andrews, Scientist
Willam Binney, NSA Whistleblower
Kirk Weibe, NSA Whistleblower
Karen Stewart, NSA Whistleblower
Carl Clark, CIA Whistleblower
Kevin Shipp, CIA Whistleblower
Mark Phillips, CIA Whistleblower
John DeCamp, Army intelligence Whistleblower
Many civilians have died in this program and many more live a life being terrorized in a Nation that promotes itself as one of Freedom and Liberty.
Patriots who stand up against these terrorist forces in the American establishment are consistently slandered by these criminals at the time of their murders to coverup for the continuation of terror carried out by one of the most corrupt agencies in US history.
Just a few of the many victims of this ongoing assault.
https://truecrimediva.com/john-lang/
https://www.thestalkingofsarahdegeyter.com