Guest Post by Pat Buchanan
Is it too soon to ask: What have we gained from our longest war? Was all the blood and treasure invested worth it? And what does the future hold?
Friday, President Donald Trump met in New Jersey with his national security advisers and envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, who is negotiating with the Taliban to bring about peace, and a U.S. withdrawal from America’s longest war.
U.S. troops have been fighting in Afghanistan since 2001, in a war that has cost 2,400 American lives.
Following the meeting, Trump tweeted, “Many on the opposite sides of this 19 year war, and us, are looking to make a deal — if possible!”
Some, however, want no deal; they are fighting for absolute power.
Saturday, a wedding in Kabul with a thousand guests was hit by a suicide bomber who, igniting his vest, massacred 63 people and wounded 200 in one of the greatest atrocities of the war. ISIS claimed responsibility.
Monday, 10 bombs exploded in restaurants and public squares in the eastern city of Jalalabad, wounding 66.
Trump is pressing Khalilzad to negotiate drawdowns of U.S. troop levels from the present 14,000, and to bring about a near-term end to U.S. involvement in a war that began after we overthrew the old Taliban regime for giving sanctuary to Osama bin Laden.
Is it too soon to ask: What have we gained from our longest war? Was all the blood and treasure invested worth it? And what does the future hold?
If the Taliban could not be defeated by an Afghan army, built up by the U.S. for a decade and backed by 100,000 U.S. troops in 2010-2011, then are the Taliban likely to give up the struggle when the U.S. is drawing down the last 14,000 troops and heading home?
The Taliban control more of the country than they have at any time since being overthrown in 2001. And time now seems to be on their side.
Why have they persevered, and prevailed in parts of the country?
Motivated by a fanatic faith, tribalism and nationalism, they have shown a willingness to die for a cause that seems more compelling to them than what the U.S.-backed Afghan government has on offer.
They also have the guerrillas’ advantage of being able to attack at times and places of their own choosing, without the government’s burden of having to defend towns and cities.
Will these Taliban, who have lost many battles but not the war, retire from the field and abide by democratic elections once the Americans go home? Why should they?
The probability: When the Americans depart, the war breaks out anew, and the Taliban ultimately prevail.
And Afghanistan is but one of the clashes and conflicts in which America is engaged.
Severe U.S. sanctions on Venezuela have failed to bring down the Nicholas Maduro regime in Caracas but have contributed to the immiseration of that people, 10% of whom have left the country. Trump now says he is considering a quarantine or blockade to force Maduro out.
Eight years after we helped to overthrow Col. Moammar Gadhafi, Libya is still mired in civil war, with its capital, Tripoli, under siege.
Yemen, among the world’s humanitarian disasters, has seen the UAE break with its Saudi interventionist allies, and secessionists split off southern Yemen from the Houthi-dominated north. Yet, still, Congress has been unable to force the Trump administration to end all support of the Saudi war.
Two thousand U.S. troops remain in Syria. The northern unit is deployed between our Syrian Kurd allies and the Turkish army. In the south, they are positioned to prevent Iran and Iranian-backed militias from creating a secure land bridge from Tehran to Baghdad to Damascus to Beirut.
In our confrontation with Iran, we have few allies.
The Brits released the Iranian tanker they seized at Gibraltar, which had been carrying oil to Syria. But when the Americans sought to prevent its departure, a Gibraltar court ruled against the United States.
Iran presents no clear or present danger to U.S. vital interests, but the Saudis and Israelis see Iran as a mortal enemy, and want the U.S. military rid them of the menace.
Hong Kong protesters wave American flags and seek U.S. support of their demands for greater autonomy and freedom in their clash with their Beijing-backed authorities. The Taiwanese want us to support them and sell them the weapons to maintain their independence. The Philippines wants us to take their side in the dispute with China over tiny islets in the South China Sea.
We are still committed to go to war to defend South Korea. And the North has lately test-fired a series of ballistic missiles, none of which could hit the USA, but all of which could hit South Korea.
Around the world, America is involved in quarrels, clashes and confrontations with almost too many nations to count.
In how many of these are U.S. vital interests imperiled? And in how many are we facing potential wars on behalf of other nations, while they hold our coat and egg us on?
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You know my feeling on the matter.
This is some of the best disguised perma-war, red commie defeatism in print.
Yesterday: Afghanistan, Chile, Columbia, Cuba, Egypt, El Salvador, Grenada, Haiti, Honduras, Iraq, Libya, Nicaragua, Panama, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, Ukraine.
Maybe someday (soon?): Iran, North Korea, Venezuela…
This is not a record of accepting the burden of defending freedom. This is a record of naked aggression and imperialism. None of those countries attacked us or any of our allies. Our Ruling Class has copied the play book of Hitler and Stalin. All the world is their Poland.
Why should we believe anything that comes out of Washington? Have we forgotten J. Edgar Hoover and his spying (and dresses)? Have we forgotten the murders at Ruby Ridge and Waco? Or Elián González? Are we not now witnessing a (so far) failed, slow motion coup d’etat by people in DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA? Didn’t Mueller, of Whitey Bulger fame, just conduct a two year fake investigation? And what of Bulger’s brutal murder while in US custody?
To that add the deliberate de-industrialization of America and the mass invasion by Third World riff raff, done in part to destroy the unions, in part to enrich the financiers and predators like Mitt Romney.
PS. We still have Special Forces people operating in Somalia. So technically Somalia is our longest war, 1992 to 2019, 27 years, and counting.
Robert, your comment is right on the mark IMHO.
The citizens of the USA were sold out long ago.
Unless the CIA can find a new source of opium to feed their global heroin distribution network, I do not see this occupation ever ending.
Then the MIC will need to start another war to feed its gluttonous appetite…..
I agree. “Motivated by a fanatic faith, tribalism and nationalism”
No mention of poppies, Mr Buchanan?
Here’s a little MSM report from about a decade back…..
and here’s one from 9-13; it’s a little long (26min), but still found on utube with Geraldo on Alex Jones, and at 7:50 in they get to the discussion of marines guarding poppy, and more….
annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum-
I watched this going on from the sidelines sort of…
In how many of these are U.S. vital interests imperiled?
All of them. If we don’t keep the Petro Dollar the supreme currency we are toast.
That’s way too factual.
Whether you agree or have issues with the Petrodollar system is not relevant.
The barbarians would be over the walls in a matter of days without Petrodollars.
If the Petro Dollar collapses, the barbarians will lose interest in climbing over our walls. Without it we can’t pay the Mercs and other snakes we use in place of the military.
You sound a bit “conflicted” in your two comments. “…we are toast.” is all dependent on who the “we” is. Those who support freedom, liberty, sound money, a government operating within its means (and the Constitutional limits imposed by Articles 1, 2, and 3), etc. will ultimately be FAR BETTER OFF with the collapse of the Petrodollar (in many ways because of the benefits of your last comment) although not without some pain. And whose “vital interests” are we REALLY talking about. If not for the government bullshit machine standing in the way, people would be able to purchase what they want from whomever they want. It is only because other countries HATE our government, that products stop flowing….not because the sellers hate their buyers. Commerce is the great uniter. That is why government attacks it and tries to control it.
Mr. Liberty…
The first reply was sarcasm. Even our toasters will be repossessed.
Wry but true. Hoping the air is not too dry. Poppa’s canula made his nose hurt.
Blessings.
GM.
Right, I hate it. It makes the membrane between the nostrils dry and sore. The mask makes your throat dry and sore when sleeping. On a scale of 10 it ain’t bad as problems go. Some people have real problems.
Motivated by a fanatic faith, tribalism and nationalism, they have shown a willingness to die for a cause that seems more compelling to them than what the U.S.-backed Afghan government has on offer.
The US needs to worry about its own country, so allow me to rephrase the above:
Motivated by the idiocities of the liberal lefts destruction of our constitution, Christian, Libertarian gun-totin’ red blooded American will show a willingness to die for liberty and freedom which the US elites and global deep state are trying to destroy.
Deplorables are the goat herders and opium(actually corn, wheat, cattle etc.) farmers, tradesmen etc. NY is Kabul, Shitcago is Kandahar and so on. There would be a government ruling only within city limits of a few big cities with no ability to enforce its writ anywhere in the other 95% of the land mass.
The commies actually had one really good idea that works wherever tried. If you don’t like Maduro or whoever just dump crates of guns and grenades and take off letting your favored group do all the work and own the failure but at least owe you a little if they succeed.
“Avoid foreign entanglements.”
” Christian, Libertarian gun-totin’ red blooded American will show a willingness to die for liberty and freedom …”
Any idea what might be the trigger even to get them started? Derring-do seems fairly anemic at this point.
Some Black Swan we haven’t thought of or some classic outrage. You just don’t know.
It will be a small incident such as Oct. 13 2013 (Obama)when the protesters took the barricades around the WW2 Monument and threw them at the White House. If the secret service had fired from the roof, and just look at the photos, that would have been the spark.
Sometimes incidents occur on purpose. something as dumb as re-supplying Fort Sumter, or trying to scare three thousand Sioux warriors with Reno’s two hundred or so men.
High Military Spending Drains Innovation, Investment and Manufacturing Strength from the Civilian Economy
— military power is socially and economically futile
— the US military is all loaded up with the seeds of future defeats
— a bankrupt nation cannot be an empire
— there are no military solutions to the problems of the modern world
Sadly, the young people in the military right now; mainly believe everything is A-Okay, because like children in a dysfunctional family they don’t know any difference.
The US military-industrial complex has become a voracious monster way beyond anything that Eisenhower may have feared. It is no longer a threat merely to American life. It is a threat to the life of the entire planet. Fortunately, Russia and China have highly developed military defenses to keep American insanity in check. Nevertheless, American belligerence is pushing the world to combustible tensions.
The problem is that American rulers have become a rogue state. The American people need to somehow sack their rogue rulers and their military madness, and return the nation to a democratic function. Why are we going to war and are planning wars with countries who pose no threat to us, yet we are not going to war with Mexico who is posing a direct threat to us?
The following chart say’s it all:
“return the nation to a democratic function”
That’s the problem. US is Constitutional Republic not a “democratic function” (whatever that entails).
Return ALL US military to America. Invade mexico and establish a 25 mile incursion zone through which NO ONE transits without military check point approval.
Tax, at 80%, ALL remittances (via Walmart money center, western union, etc) to any country south of the incursion zone.
Make America White Again
America was a constitutional republic. It is not anymore. This is evidenced by the fact that the US government no longer adheres to the constitution. “Returning the nation to a democratic function” only means that the US has gone rogue as is stated in the same paragraph. The rule of law has been eliminated and the social contract broken through the barrel of a gun, so therefore the US cannot be a constitutional republic or a democracy, either one.
“sack their rogue rulers”
Would stealth lead poisoning work?
They must have interviewed a lot of Indians for Pakistan to rank so high. I’m not sure they would make my top 10. I would definitely put the US first for sure.
They have a good military and nukes. They have several major ethnic groups including Pashtuns which causes internal strife from time to time. The Tribal reservations are real no go zones and not unlike what you see in an old movie like Gunga Din. Not all Pashtuns are Taliban but all Taliban are Pashtuns. Lots of radicals who would yell Allahu Akbar and push the button if they got into the launch command office.
War is what the MIC exports. It is what Empires do to pay the bill to expand.
They expand through War.
But war, as an industry, fails to produce much to replace the desruction. It only redistributes the bystanders from the sidelines onto the uncomfortable true picture where they must be destroyed or redistributed.
Once upon a time such people were part of the spoils.
Now, they are refugees or terrorists. It depends on one’s viewpoint.
It also depends on whether those bombs built to generate tax money fell near your place.
It also appears to cost a lot of money to pay for weapons that are by their very nature disposable. Hey Mr. Weapons Manufacturer, we need six doaen bombs to level and destroy c City so….hmmmm …give us SIXTY DOZEN. With and option for full replacement as we level cities.
Pay those folks a few dollars to make the bombs, and the government extracts the taxes for the cost of war from workers.
The end game, as Major Chun told us when we were briefed for Panama so long ago it seems a crazy dream, “Fly, fight and destroy,” he told his crew as they prepared to deploy and “control” the invasion,”That is always the mission.”
Maj. Chun had been a FAC in Vietnam before becoming a Mission Commander in AWACS. He was my first Flight Commander to sign a Performance report (APR) for me. As a young airman (no gender problem here), I was in awe of him, so he had genuine authority. I kind of liked his solemn sense of urgency, which he backed up with horror stories from Vietnam.
He was a true Patriot. He was like another family I had met in Houston “A Vietnamese couple who lived in a laundry mat nearby in Houston. They had an 8 year old son and an “anchor” baby
I thought the former Soldier who had escaped on a boat with his wife and child were industrious honest people. I bought their kid coloring books. He was brilliant with an abacus. He taught me the basics.
Eight years old. Lived in the back of the coin làundry.
Brilliant. He carried his new baby sister to me while I was drying my laundry and playing with his abacus. He told me she was an American Citizen and one day he would be a citizen too. He was a very proud big brother.
Fly, fight and destroy. Until nothing is left, the mission is never over.
Was Major Chun wrong?
Or has the MISSION of the weapons industry chànged?
I saw deathstrucion instead of destruction above and decided either would suffice.
Like fire or ice., But. I edited a bit.
One up and one down. Six of one. Half dozen.
Two outa three on that one!
Oops…gone in the red.
Build a time machine and take a battle season Marine from WW2 and show him all the weapons we have now. then tell him we have been fighting ignorant Muslim sheepherders for twenty years and cant win.
it sure would look stupid. Wars are won by crushing the enemy and breaking their spirit to fight, not worrying about how many are going to die. I wonder how much of the Muslim population support the Taliban against the evil Christian invaders? The idea of any of these religious fanatics getting “the bomb” should make anyone a bit nervous. Its all about money is what i gather.
Your point nails it. In WW2 the Generals tell the Colonels to take the objective. They line up 1,000 troops and say take that! If they are all killed they bring up another 1,000 and say take that! They took it and then on to the next one until being defeated or defeating the enemy unconditionally.
There were battles like the Battle of Hertgen Forest where the senior officers didn’t even show up and one of the biggest battles of the war was run by noncoms and 2nd lieutenants with rarely anyone above company commander even showing up to check on it. Thousands killed, nobody but the troopers themselves even seemed to care. There was an attitude of everyone being expendable in the cause as it was about winning at all cost. Losing meant enslavement or at least that was the thought.
Try that today and if ten guys get waxed taking an objective all hell breaks loose. If it is not a war over an existential threat like WW2 we need to stay out of it. No win wars are sacrifices to the MIC god.
“Knesset West”, the present U S Congress has to go…If I had my way, any congressperson who took the junket to israel would lose their united States citizenship immediately and be permanently banned from re-entering the USA. Any attempts to enter the USA by these traitors would result in prosecution for TREASON. As much as I detest Tlaib and Omar’s politics, they are absolutely correct to call out israel’s interference in U S politics and with their refusal to sign the “loyalty oath” to israel (that most of congress has signed).
Against the Zionist lackeys in Congress, Tlaib and Omar are the underdog. But then, Omar receives support and counsel from the Hebrew Immigration Society, and her fellow squad members are part of a larger cohort of potential political candidates selected and coached by ((handlers)) behind the scenes. No matter who wins this pit fight, all the dogs are rabid with anti-White vitriol and ((tribal)) interests will be served.
Lars..
Yup.It’s pure Kabuki. “They” don’t want anyone, dark or light leaving their reservations. They’ve got half of TBP readers firmly on the Republican rez, fearful of not voting Red.
It’s all about the Benjamins Baby!
If the Petro Dollar falls, we fall. It has never been about us or our well being. It’s about the Dollar’s well being.
Another reason for a Gold Standard.
The Afghans have battled two of the most powerful countries in the world for the past 40 years and are about to see the second one tuck tail and run away. This should be a lesson for the world that you cannot defeat a determined people who are armed and motivated to keep out invading armies.
When I hear lefties tell me that the armed citizens of the U S are no match for the armed forces, I just point to a group of gorilla fighters in Afghanistan and what they have done from horseback against these 2 powerful armies. It is no wonder the left wants to disarm us.
Gorillas on Horseback in the Midst
Guerrillas on horses and dirt bikes.
War only in defense of vital interests. In that case, do whatever it takes to win.
The BlankSlaters had success in Germany and Japan.
What the Blank Slaters need to do is invade Norway and Finland.
Any war is not good for any one.
Unbelievably tragic. Such a waste of our treasure merely for the profit of the War industry.
War INDUSTRY.
What is it good for?
Absolutely Nothing.
Bruce said so.
i won’t argue much w/the article as a whole but it is complete bs about us being defeated in afghanistan–
we do not have the stomach to be brutal enough to win,as in most of our other ” wars” since ww2–
Tampa,
Trust me, we have the stomach to be brutal…we have been brutal beyond belief, I have seen it, but our brutality has had nothing to do with winning wars we are in to enrich the MIC ORCs and to feed Sauron.
The real burden is what we have become since the successful Sauron coup of 1913.
Yea, it is that simple…that is the root that needs killing.
with all the anti israel bs posted here,does the us get anything positive from the relationship?
completely off topic but there are no current epstein threads going & this is an active thread so i’ll put it here–
2 days b4 his death,epstein put all his property in a $578 million trust–
https://www.thewealthadvisor.com/article/epstein-created-trust-578-million-days-suicide?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTlRVMk9EUXhaalpsWmpFMyIsInQiOiJGSW1PTHVYR1wvZXJlbXZWSXVFVE9aOHhHNnBwRXN5SDlhV0trNURNcWE5dGFETGVzcHRQQzIwTDJlRkh3VWtzb0dhWHZKVWhzWlVUNjdyQ0JDaWVFaWp6RDUwTzI1MlY4c3Z4eUN1V2RkSzF0a21lWUVZN1pwd2JuTzFLelh1TVIifQ%3D%3D
2,400 vs ~ 3,000 at the twin towers = We won !!
Yay, lets do afuking victory dance
How fukin stoopid!!
Let them be, who cares if they blow themselves up?
Trump’s foreign policy is a complete utter disaster. He promised an end to America’s forever-wars. He fucken lied.
We should get out of Afghan by noon tomorrow. That being said it will be a bloodbath of epic proportions once the last US soldier leaves. ANY Afghan with ties to the USA (working for our militay, or Embassy, or even just driving trucks, etc etc) is gonna be beheaded … and also possibly their families. Yeah … another American success story!!!!
Did you see Billah’s wife showed up on the Hell Gig and No One gave a rat’s ass. Best fart joke around here in a while. If you ask me.
Not only Afghanistan. South Korea, Japan, Germany, the Baltics, Romania, Syria, Iraq, and on and on. It’s all about corporate reach. Mine the shit out of Afghanistan, drill the shit out of Iraq, farm the shit out of South America…
100% corporate interests. When they say in the “nation’s interests”, they mean Corporate.
Trump provides those who aren’t woke to get a bit more prepared. That’s it. He cannot fix a fucked up system. We need a Caesar…someone with the best interests of the populares, and who doesn’t need to answer to bureaucrats.
AOC…
You’ll never guess who and why Caesar was whacked.
As an aside. Did commie cortez steal your handle?
Yes, well aware of the true history behind Gaius Julius. Not the bullshit as told by Cicero or Cato.
Nope. I have no problems calling out fascism just as easily as communism. Two sides of the same coin. We haven’t fought a war in the best interests of the common folks of this nation since the War of 1812. The rest are just the result of old farts ordering young men to die for their wallets.
AOC..
That was just my attempt at humor about AOC taking your handle.
I got it, LOL. Was just expanding upon my point. I already know where you stand, sir. There was a Nam post you wrote years ago that I remember quite well. Loved and hated to read it, at the same time.
AOC..
Wouldn’t change a word today either.
“Anarchists did not try to carry out genocide against the Armenians in Turkey; they did not deliberately starve millions of Ukrainians; they did not create a system of death camps to kill Jews, gypsies, and Slavs in Europe; they did not fire-bomb scores of large German and Japanese cities and drop nuclear bombs on two of them; they did not carry out a Great Leap Forward that killed scores of millions of Chinese; they did not attempt to kill everybody with any appreciable education in Cambodia; they did not launch one aggressive war after another; they did not implement trade sanctions that killed perhaps 500,000 Iraqi children. In debates between anarchists and statists, the burden of proof clearly should rest on those who place their trust in the state. Anarchy’s mayhem is wholly conjectural; the state’s mayhem is undeniably, factually horrendous.” ~Robert Higgs