Authored by Michael Snyder via The End of The American Dream blog,
In 2017 and 2018, most Americans were generally feeling pretty good about the future, and interest in “prepping” plummeted nationwide.
But now things have changed.
All of a sudden, demand for “prepper properties” is absolutely soaring, and this is driving up the prices of rural homes all over the nation. In fact, in some of the hottest areas working class families have already been completely priced out of the market. Meanwhile, luxury home prices in the heart of New York City have fallen to the lowest level in six years. Many are deeply concerned about the upcoming election, and many others are alarmed by all the other crazy stuff happening all over the world, but whatever the motivation it is undeniable that an increasing number of Americans are seeking to flee the major cities right now. There seems to be a growing consensus that our society is rapidly steamrolling toward a nightmare, and a lot of people are purchasing “prepper properties” while they still can.
I knew that conditions were shifting, but I was stunned when I saw that even Realtor.com had posted an article about this growing trend…
But today, Americans en masse are again preparing for the worst—and Communists are just about the only thing not on their list. What is? Terrorist attacks, a total economic collapse, perhaps even zombie invasions. Or maybe just a complete societal breakdown after this November’s scorched-Earth presidential election.
And Reuters just posted an article in which they discussed the fact that preppers have “boosted rural land values” in property markets all across the nation…
Whichever camp, realtors say the new dropouts are not “crackpots” and often include affluent professionals whose run for the hills has boosted rural land values and started to change their property market.
“I’ve had hedge-fund managers and billionaires that have made purchases, and they all have concerns about the direction of the economy and social stability,” said John E. Haynes, president of Retreat Realty in North Carolina.
That same Reuters article identified “Idaho, Montana and Wyoming” as three of the states with the hottest property markets. It has gotten to the point where even some of the biggest celebrities in the country are very eager to grab a slice of rural life. For example, Kanye West and Kim Kardashian just purchased a second extremely large ranch in Wyoming.
But mostly this trend is being driven by preppers, survivalists and those that want to own an “off-grid property”. The following comes from a recent NPR article…
Welcome to the world of sustainable, survivalist real estate. There’s a growing market for this kind of off-grid property. Mondale figures over the past six to eight years, sales of these survivalist properties have risen by 50 percent.
“It seems like over the past few years, there’s just this need, I don’t want to say panic or frantic, but people feeling the need to be able to have someplace to go,” Mondale says.
Real estate agent Theresa Mondale has been in this game for a very long time, and she has never seen the market as hot as it is right now.
In fact, some of the prepper properties that she has listed sell for more than a million dollars…
Despite the remoteness of these homes, they’re not backwoods shacks with sagging metal roofs. Some of her listings sell for more than $1 million if there’s a lot of land and if water rights are included. The one with the helicopter pad is a spiffy, two-story log home with a wraparound porch. It has solar panels and inside, a backup generator, luxury bathrooms and a kitchen with granite countertops and stainless steel appliances.
Over in Idaho, real estate agent Todd Savage has also noticed a huge surge in interest in prepper properties. He told Realtor.com that his sales are up 50 percent compared to a year ago…
For example, sales at American Redoubt Realty, a real estate firm nestled in the heart of prepper country in northern Idaho, are up 50% over the same time last year, says real estate agent Todd Savage, who specializes in such transactions. His clients typically hail from Texas and California.
As we approach the 2020 election, demand is going to continue to surge, and prices are only going to go higher.
And if great chaos breaks out during the aftermath of the election, that will drive prices into the stratosphere.
We live at a time when our nation is very deeply divided, but at the same time people from all walks of life are extremely concerned about where our society is heading.
In the event that things really start to fall apart, people want their families to be safe, and safety is not going to be found in the major cities.
Of course some developers are taking things to the extreme. For example, one developer has actually transformed a former nuclear missile silo in Kansas into what he is calling “survival condos”…
Larry Hall is the brainchild behind such luxury developments which he refers to as ‘Survival Condos’. The project is a luxury complex housed 15 stories below ground in a former missile silo near Concordia, Kansas.
The missile silos were originally built by the US Army Corps of Engineers in the 1960s during the Cold War for the Atlas F missile, and there were 72 of them around the country.
Being stuck in a highly publicized hole in the ground when society starts to collapse may not be the best tactical situation, but apparently there is a lot of demand for these condos.
In fact, the price for a penthouse unit is a cool 4.5 million dollars…
A full-floor apartment, spanning 1,800 square feet, will cost buyers $3million, while a 900-square-foot, half-floor unit is $1.5million. The ultra-wealthy can also make a penthouse selection starting at $4.5million.
Needless to say, only the ultra-wealthy can afford such extravagant accommodations.
But everyone should be preparing in their own way.
The relative stability that we had been enjoying has now given way to a time of great uncertainty. Economic conditions are deteriorating, global weather patterns are going completely nuts, war could break out in the Middle East at any time, civil unrest is on the rise all over the globe, a mysterious coronavirus is spreading very rapidly in Asia, our planet is becoming increasingly unstable, and the 2020 election looks like it could be a flashpoint for all the anger that has been boiling just under the surface in our nation for many years.
If you want to grab a prepper property, now is the time to do so, because time is running out and things are about to start getting really crazy out there.
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The smart people are becoming misanthropes.
The smart people are getting as far away from the madness of crowds as possible.
Good for them.
5 low cost acres off a dirt road, 4 seasons no extreme temperatures like Idaho or AZ. Quarter mile from a small river. One way in / out for over a mile of paved road, 2A sanctuary county. Beyond that, I am not going off grid, will be prepared for power outages.
How low cost? Water? Electricity?
$6k/acre, added a well, ran power to it. Next is a septic tank. Its the best I can do. Why do you ask?
I think this extravagant prepper properties plan neglects a crucial element; community. Let’s see how good a farmer Kanye is at growing his own food, slaughtering his own livestock, defending his properties against marauding hordes and finding medical assistance for emergencies. I strive for a community of like minded individuals I can be a part of that join forces for the common good. No man is an island. Not even wealthy ones.
Nearly all these wanabee self sufficient individuals have NO idea what will be required of them. Most I feel think that watching a few video, reading a shelf of books and buying a trunk load of trinkets and tools will fill the bill, NOT! Most will find out that living the basic life is a shit load of work day in and day out. It is even worse if you don’t know the area. Just covering the basics will be an eye opener for most of them I feel.
oldtimer,
It an’t rocket science or experience or intelligence…just time, persistence and determination. I’m proof of that.
Live my life by this. had it hanging in every office I ever had (once I got an office) now its in my barn.
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge
Mark,
Same sign hung in the hall between our son’s rooms about 35 years ago! Should be in every school. I think you combat qualified Marines probably had to memorize that or something along those lines.
Check Six,
I actually read it the first time after the military in the early years of my corporate career, and ordered a plaque with the quote on it for my first office, so I would see it daily…after I jumped from hourly to entry level management.
I was a blue collar guy in a white collar world but extremely lucky with a couple of mentors, and over the decades three corporate pyramids with many ladder rungs as I was rough, coarse, unpolished, outspoken, and more of an entrepreneur then a Corporate guy.
I hated the politics, even though I was quite good at the guerilla infighting as the pyramid narrowed (I was told HR in my first company nicknamed me mark the shark) but going on my own as a consultant was the merge in-between doing what you love, are good at, and money, without the politics, as I always reported to the owner. The only bumpy engagements I had was when big corporations hired me.
I taught the words to my daughter and two nephews who I love like sons, and their careers/steady climbs have been extremely gratifying to watch.
Silent Cal nailed it.
Mark,
I, too, played the corporate game and then took what I learned into the entrepreneurial arena.
On my desk was a little wood piece with the following words: “no guts, no glory”, which was the title of a classified book written by a double ace from the Korean “police action” who was my class commander when I was a very young Lt. in F-4 training.
He is also the guy who said his success in making it home was based on never initiating an engagement unless he had the advantage…
A little “old head” wisdom ain’t all bad.
I now hide on our little ranch on top of mountain in NW Montana. Our sons call it the family fire base…
Ha!
My Son in Law calls my place, Camp David.
Good thread. There’s an equivalent saying on Wall St.: “No balls, no baby.” I squirreled away the Coolidge quote for later.
How true. There is also another old saying, “Watch this”.
I agree that time, persistence and determination are all great attributes. However, it has been my experience that these alone will not suffice. Without a defined goal, an understanding of the need of community, a multi or very diverse skill set, an understanding of the environment you are dealing with, you will most likely have a very difficult time of it. I don’t care who you are. When setting out on such an adventure with no prior experience you will make mistakes that can be very costly. It has been my experience that most undertakings look good on paper and play out differently in reality. Plan for the worst and thank your lucky stars for getting the best.
Remember “just hide and watch me!”
That’s very true, but once you take that first step and stick with it, the things you will learn…
…and take sheer, utter and unbridled delight in.
The education one gains is the first and lasting reward.
HOW RELATIONSHIPS ARE LIKE FRUIT TREES
https://hotelinvestortoolbox.com/relationships-are-like-fruit-trees/
CC,
I recently planted my 60th fruit tree, and 22nd berry bush, well into my 9th year in nurturing community in my neck of the woods.
So far both are thriving.
Atta boy. Now engage with your neighbors.
Shoot CC, (every pun intended) I’m organizing a Fire Team…
Kanye flies in with the entourage “when its time” and the security officer promptly shoots him in the head and says “thanks for the ride”…..the rich dudes will find out very quickly that the rules have changed.
If you are interested in the American Redoubt then move here, learn the ways of the land, build your network of friends and become part of the community. It is foolish in the extreme to think you can bug-out to a remote location and be successful, that is not how it works.
Idaho benefits from the warmer pacific air but still has shorter growing seasons, Montana which produces some of the best wheat, barley, pulse crops (peas, lentils etc.) and has more fat happy cows than people is a harsher environment but not as harsh as WY where there is much less water.
Southern ID is full of Mormons for good and ill and WY is full of unfriendly loner types. MT is a mixed bag of hippie leftist tree huggers in Missoula, PNW lefties in Kalispell/Whitefish and blue-collar oil patch (think old Houston) in Billings. Bozeman we affectionately call Bozeangeles due to the influx of Californianians with lots of home equity fleeing tyranny but bringing their idiotic ideology with them…..but it is the fastest-growing city of 50,000 in the USA, the Northern Rockies, in general, are exploding…..Boise etc.
Home prices are high and lots are small, not good for prepping.
If you go farther out prices get a little better but then you are really in a different community, very small, mostly insular with limited services and distractions. Small town life (2,500 or less) in the Rockies sucks as it does everywhere.
So my recommendation for the vast majority of folks is deciding whether small-town life is for you (95% of you should say no) and then decide whether you really are a person who can move to a new place? Most cannot, it is hard, frustrating and expensive, did I mention wages are low….so you better plan on running your own business, again not for everybody.
The rewards are exceptional for those who do adjust. The wildlife is truly wild not your typical suburban whitetails/coyote…..elk, deer, wolves, mule deer, bear, mountain lion, wolverine!, bobcat and you can see these at any time and place. A couple of years ago the HS had to delay opening due to a black bear roaming the halls and Montana State had to issue a warning text to students of a mountain lion wandering through campus.
Stuff grows here is if you adapt to the cold and shorter seasons with greenhouses etc. So you can feed yourself on a couple of acres, though with livestock count on 10 acres per head for cattle. Remember you need to raise hay for the winter.
Fishing is world-class as are all the outdoor pursuits with Yellowstone and Glacier, the Missouri Breaks etc.
There is no prepping as Yoda says “do or do not, there is no try”.
Thanks for the good (and useful) summary, MH. It sounds like where you are in MT is similar to where we are in south central CO regarding climate, small town living, outdoor activities, lack of jobs, access to these things city folks call “stores”, decent medical care (we’re all getting older), etc. We’ve considered moving north, but, having lived here in the southwest most of our lives, where to go – we’re rather used to the year-round sunshine, especially in the winter. Zero or colder temps aren’t bad if there isn’t wind and the sun is out. Cloudy and humid, not so much.
We spent some time last fall around Trout Creek and other parts of western Montana – beautiful.
I used to work with a guy who, way back during college, had a summer job as a lookout outside of Livingston (MT). Once, during one of his rare treks into town, he went into a bar to have a beer, got sized up by one of the locals and was asked “So, who are you hiding from, being in a place like this?” It takes all kinds, I guess.
Most of the towns in SW MT are in river valleys and surrounded by mountains…..making it out of the valley is often a challenge. I am in the Bozeman area and Livingston is over the Bozeman Pass in the Paradise Valley….the Yellowstone flows north from the park and turns east at Livingston. Town as 8,500 people but is less robust economically than Bozeman and while some commute to Bozeman (housing much cheaper in Livingston) that commute can kill you in the winter despite the heroic efforts of the MT highway Dept…Great place to homestead for lower costs and more room and still can get to the big hospital in Bozeman.
Kevin, I like being more remote personally but it ain’t for everyone…..you learn to do stuff for yourself, depend on your neighbors and you learn to do without.
Small town life sucks???? I live outside of a small town and its fantastic.
YES, fantastic! Agreed, actually. On 6 acres; we leave people alone, they leave us alone. You just have to accept not having some things city folks take for granted – some things not previously mentioned – noise, lights all the time, crime, auto theft, people EVERYWHERE, all those things we DON’T miss. There are other things (like stores) that you just have to plan around – make lists and go to larger towns occasionally. Believe me, if we didn’t want to be here, we’d be elsewhere.
1000+ I agree Kevin – to each his own. I wish I was even more remote, but:
Nooooooooooo….. Not John Denver. Aahhhhhh….
Sorry, Mark, to each his own, I guess. 🙂
Cheers.
“Small town life (2500 or fewer)…sucks, as it does everywhere”. I live in small town everywhere (South America) and I’ve never been happier. There’s a saying in Spanish: “Pueblo chico, infierno grande” (small town, big hell) because of gossip, but by and large, if you want community, it’s relatively easy in small towns or villages.
Yes, absolutely, Montana is the best, and Wyoming is next best. There’s no reason anyone else should want to come to Idaho. 🙂
Idaho is full, eh? Especially the northern part? I get it. That’s why we like living where we do. 😉
Beware the realtors who label themselves as “prepper realtors”. They tend to be d-bags who aren’t well liked in their own communities, especially in Idaho.
True story.
I bought two cans of Spam a couple days ago. And that was before Coronavirus was even on my radar. I think I’m set.
Your as set as anyone else out there. Why worry about something over which you have no control.
Bought a couple of fifty-five gal drums of Brawndo, it’s got electrolytes.
Be sure and water your crops with it….its the best.
uhghghgh…its true. We used to see country folks out and about. Now its money’d fux with lexusae, slim fit attire and some pro-queer or pro-commie or anti-God bumper sticker. Disgusting bunch they are.
Sounds like you need a longer driveway.
Yeah, about 10 miles longer.
I’ll sell you my prepper place. 200k. Soft close cabinets. Granite. Whole house propane backup genny, backed by a gas genny. Central heat and a/c. Deep well with heatline. Spray foamed, heat it with a candle. Year of dehydrated food. 14 acres bordering endless state land.
Which state?
Southern adirondacks, new york state. In one of the lowest taxed areas in the state. 84 residents in the whole town.
Got mine.
I just moved from the big city (Silcon Valley) up to a rural area in northern Cal, yeah I know I’m still in Cal but I’m now in a 2A friendly county. I lived most of my adult working life in the city but I grew up in the country where we raised various types of animals for food, chickens, rabbits, pigs and cows and more. I got plenty of experience butchering animals as a teenager.
I don’t consider my place your classic “Prepper Property” but it has some of the qualities. I have 20 acres with enough oak trees (hundreds) to provide all the fire wood I could ever want, but I heat with propane and I have a propane backup gen.
My first night here the two things that stuck out (absolutely amazing) were how dark it is at night and how quiet it is – well except for every once in a while the Owls and their – WHO WHO WHO!!
So glad to get out of the city which is truly turning into a shit hole.
Most of you would find it rather shocking the lack of diversity and the people here appear to be fairly (openly) conservative, but – Oh well – I’m sure I can adjust.
ASIG
Even though the work is just beginning, you have the basics by the sounds of it to adapt to the life style of rural America. I have spent most of my childhood and a great deal of my life in mother nature. It was a home to me. I still enjoy the wild life wondering through the yard, there are a few exceptions, but the quit, the sound of wind in the trees are as good as it gets for me. My neighbors are all rural born and raised with solid values.
Congratulations with your new purchase and life. I wish you the very best of luck.
Oldtimer505
Yep, and the realtors love it and the Fed is fueling (financing) it.
So, if you don’t have a million $ house to sell in CA, should you go into debt to get one of those priced into oblivion prepper lots and maybe loose it when the Fed pulls the plug on the bull market?
The rule I live by is only buy what you can pay cash for. I have no debt of any kind.
Been doing the same for over a decade.
We have much less than we did back when, and we don’t seem to want it.
It’s hard to describe how easy you feel without debt hanging over your head.
Bankster’s Preference:
Easy credit—>Huge debt—>Enslavement
Buying things not needed, with money you don’t have, to impress people that don’t matter.
The larger the hole, the more difficult climb out.
If successfully escaped, the old school adage of living within your means is a lesson learned.
Discipline—->Savings—>Freedom
Timeless wisdom that only 1 in 10 abide by.
Maybe less than that ratio.
Raised by depression-era parents – growing up the question was always asked – ‘but, do you need it?’ It turns out that most things in life that you think you need are really ‘wants’. Agree with you 100%, HSF. Being debt free gives a true sense of freedom. There is a saying – “Gold is the money of Kings, Silver the money of the common man, and debt is the CURRENCY of slaves”.
HSF
I have been wondering if debt is good. If shtf they cant collect. Not sure i would mortgage but car and credit card near shtf seems logical
It could work if you time the collapse just right.
The hidden benefits of being debt free are hard to quantify, but they are legion.
To each their own.
the experienced
If we stop to think about it the only thing you or I own is what we can carry or pull in a cart. The rest belongs to the state or fed. I don’t care what a person has in the bank, stock market, IRA, 401K, SS, paper dollars, fake coinage or any other asset that is not in their personal possession. The peoples addiction to this imaginary wealth is very interesting.
Through taxes, bull crap promises and imaginary money in financial institutions the only thing any of us own is what we can put our hands on and hang onto. Don’t give up your firearms because this will be the only deterrent to these assholes and carpet baggers.
I dare them to pull the plug. The plug is their control.
I agree very much with everybody above. So, I am still hoping to “own” a little land “some” day, just to put some seeds into the ground and harvest a little later that year.
Nailed it. Insightful
Just wondering – how familiar are folks here with the Mormon way of life and their views toward ‘being prepared’? They certainly have a very strong sense of community and taking care of ‘their kind’ – this has been pointed out on this thread as quite important (it is). If people are interested, there is a lot of information out there to be found regarding self-sufficiency.
There are a lot of Mormons in Northern Idaho with more and more moving in. They are some of the nicest people in the community. I think of the Mormon church as “the Berkshire Hathaway of religions.” If they allowed the consumption of coffee and alcohol, I could get on board with that church. 🙂
TF – That has been my experience as well, having worked with and for them and had them as neighbors. They seem to have some strange beliefs, but maybe we all do. It WAS funny to watch our neighbor occasionally sneak a can of coke, being that there are worse vices in the world. There is an entire Mormon sub-culture in this country that I’m not sure how many people are aware.
Those are called jack-Mormons. The beliefs may be unorthodox but they are as nice as the Osmonds.
Jack-Mormons? Is that some blend of Billy Jack and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir all rolled into the belief each Man will one day rule his own planet in his own God-Emperor sort of Paradise?
Why do you always take 2 Mormons with you when you go fishing? If you only take one, he’ll drink all your beer.
Probably true with some Mormons, Mark. The ones I knew were pretty serious about it, but they were from Utah and southern Idaho. My former boss (see story below) was from Farmington, NM and had a bit more of a sense of humor about things.
MG – Sounds about right. Like I said, sort of some strange beliefs, but who knows? I suppose we’ll all find out someday. With all the different belief systems out there and we that can’t ALL be right, maybe some of us will be right, or maybe none of us will be. At the moment, the gate to that point seems to be a one way ticket, and I’m not quite willing to voluntarily go through it just to find out what’s on the other side. Not yet.
Our neighbor, Ken, was funny, though. Apparently growing up he was a bit of a hell-raiser – water-skiing on the large irrigation canals in the Phoenix area being pulled by a car on the edge, drag racing, etc – the stuff most kids do. His second wife finally settled him down, and he had to settle for the occasional can of coke.
To EC’s point, they are generally nice and helpful – when we moved from Albuquerque up here, a co-worker (Mormon) showed up with 3 of his sons (they had 9 kids) and moved our entire house into the moving van for us. Just because. Funny story – one day at work I pushed his sense of humor a bit too far, it turned out, by changing his screen saver on his PC to that of Planned Parenthood. Like I said, he had 9 kids and didn’t know all their birthdays, left one kid at church one Sunday (fell asleep in the back row of the church), and I THOUGHT he might see the humor. Nope. Wrong. He went to our boss (also Mormon) and was going to “get whoever did this, fired!” Well, our boss knew it was me and didn’t want to see me get fired (our boss thought it was kind of humorous, too, even being Mormon), so finally got him settled down somewhat. So, watch the sense of humor – if you try to go beyond about a 3rd grade level it’s too far.. Never did tell him who changed his screensaver… His response would probably be: “You dog”, which, coming from a Mormon, is pretty strong stuff.
DinCO,
Ha!
That was hilarious…sounds like something I would do.
I knew some Mormons quite well…and I found out they frowned on adultery…because that could lead to DANCING!!!
Sounds like being in a small drinking village with a fishing problem!
Like Baptist everybody drinks but a wink and nod you all condemn it at the same time. Mormons are more strict
DinCO,
My story – and the lesson in relation to this thread is to be ‘persistent and determined’ in your search for rural land.
I bought the book above in 2010 and poured over it living in the Cul-de-sac dreaming of my escape….after a relentless search I stumbled upon 14 acres in 2012, with an old dilapidated doublewide on it that no one had lived in for years. Made a ‘cash’ low ball opening offer that was accepted (to my shock)…and got the land about 15k under what it was worth! The old dilapidated double wide (no heat, no ac was not even included in the price!) The final purchase price was $124,999.00…I bought it in four days. There was a small but beautiful pond (over grown with duck weed) and the frame of a barn with a collapsed roof. Five wildly overgrown pastures, and about 8 acres of woods, mostly pine, but some hardwood.
I was stunned! The offer was accepted. The land by itself was worth $140,000 at that time.
Evidently the divorced woman (she was something – a hot tamale) who lived two hours away was all over/about the quick cash sale. I was willing to go up to $150,000.00 because to me the 1,300 sq ft. double wide was easily salvageable for an initial low cost home, and I was right. (Note, I acted like we were going to bulldoze the double wide and wanted nothing to do with it – so it had no value to us).
I have a cousin who is retired and use to build homes. He and I made the punch list for the doublewide and he brought in his top guys who did an amazing remodel. We also added on a 300 sq. ft. all year sun room, and a back deck, new heat pump, propane heat (that is my wife’s industry – she is the Queen of the Hill) and all for about 45k (my cousin worked for free).
We then had a beautiful 1,600 sq. ft. 3 bedroom, two bath cozy home.
Over the last 9 years came the Barn/Chicken coop (the old barn frame was still good), cleaned out, aerated, and stocked the pond, 80’ X 69’ garden with a 8ft chained linked fence, 60 fruit and nut trees, 22 berry bushes, a one room 12’ X 14’ tricked out Amish built ‘Little House’ man cave in the edge of the woods with an 8 foot wrap around deck, an 12 ft. underground tornado shelter I use as a combo bunker, root cellar, two grape arbors, a small green house, and a serious shooting range.
I’m no Mormon, how they live on the land and prepping wise is just old time common sense. I also disagree with Old Timer a bit when he said:
“When setting out on such an adventure with no prior experience you will make mistakes that can be very costly. It has been my experience that most undertakings look good on paper and play out differently in reality.”
Although doing is the real teacher not reading, and everyone makes mistakes, the book at the top, along with the internet and this magazine:
https://www.magazines.com/new-pioneer-magazine.html (Worth every penny 100 times over.)
Have allowed me to build a productive modest farm, and a serious degree of self sufficiency, while staying fit through hard work, and keeping me off the streets and out of trouble!
Learning is constant, but relentless ‘persistence and determination’ have been the real fuel for my engine, and success in everything I have attacked and attempted my entire life. You can learn or figure out or hire out everything else.
We are building a second house in the deepest woods this year.
Mark – interesting story and thanks for the links. I think I’ve given part of my story on other comment threads, but… Pretty similar – are you sure we’re not brothers of different mothers? Anyway, I’ll follow up at some point.. Years ago we had subscriptions to “Backwoods Home ” and “Countryside”.