The Oregon Standoff: Understanding LaVoy Finicum’s Death & the Management of BLM Land

Oregon Standoff

When one talks about the Bundy Family, the first thing that springs to mind is the standoff in Nevada in 2014. However, perhaps even more important is the standoff and occupation at Oregon’s Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016. Indeed, the two events are often conflated because Ammon Bundy is the son of Cliven Bundy, the man who stood up to the federal government over “grazing fees” on Bureau of Land Management land.

The occupation was a highlight for both the militia and the sovereign citizen movement as well as proponents of states’ rights. The main argument from those occupying the land is that the federal government is mandated by law to turn over the land that they manage to the individual states in which the land sits. This, they argued, was particularly true of the Bureau of Land Management, United States Forestry Service, and United States Fish and Wildlife Service land.

The 2016 Oregon standoff was over two ranchers convicted of arson on federal lands – despite the fact that the men, a father and son pair named Dwight and Steven Dwight Hammond, did not want their support.

Harney County in rural eastern Oregon is one of the largest counties in the United States by land mass, but one of the smallest when it comes to population. With a mere 7,700 people, cows outnumber humans in Harney by a factor of 14-to-1. Nearly three quarters of the land in the county is federally managed. The Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established by then-President Theodore Roosevelt in 1908. It’s a large area of the county and surrounding area at 187,757 acres.

How Federal Land Management Works

history of the Oregon standoffWhile each federal agency manages land differently, it is worth taking a closer look at the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) as a template case for how federal land management works in general.

The BLM manages fully 1/8th of all the landmass of the United States. The Bureau was created by then-President Harry S. Truman in 1946, through the combination of two existing federal agencies – the General Land Office and the Grazing Service. Most BLM land is concentrated in 12 Western states: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming.

There’s truth to the idea that BLM lands are largely lands that no one wanted to settle. The actual land is remnants held for homesteading that no homesteaders actually claimed. Ranchers, however, often use the land for grazing with 18,000 permits and leases held for 155 million acres. There are also over 63,000 gas and oil wells, as well as extensive coal and mineral mining. So while the land might be land that individuals don’t want to live on and farm, it is far from without value.

Part of the controversy in both the Nevada and Oregon standoffs was the question of ownership of these public lands. Cliven Bundy did not feel obligated to pay grazing fees for what is ostensibly “public” land that, the argument goes, is not owned by the federal government at all, but no one in particular. Similarly, the men who were convicted of “arson” on federal land weren’t terrorists or thrill-seeking firebugs. It was part of a longer-standing dispute with the federal government over their right to graze cattle on the land that started with the pair doing controlled burns that became uncontrolled. They became a cause celebre for the Bundy crew, because they were another symbol of the conflict over who rightfully owned the land.

This comes down to a question of ownership: Can the federal government simply decide that it “owns” 1/8th of the country that is supposed to be set aside for the general public? Does the federal government have such authority or does this authority reside with the states? Homesteading was technically still allowed until 1976 (1986 in Alaska), but the formation of the BLM in 1964 effectively spelled the end of homesteading in the lower 48. The argument of Ammon Bundy and company was that the federal government had no such authority, which instead rested with the states.

In a certain sense, this is a purely academic question. In another sense, the federal government owns whatever it says it does, because who is going to say otherwise? However, this was the theory and argument that underpinned the occupation of the Wildlife Refuge.

What is Agenda 21?

It is briefly worth addressing “Agenda 21” before moving on, as many of those involved in the standoff believed in this. The veracity of Agenda 21 is not important for our purposes. What is important is that many of the people involved in the standoff believed it to be true.

Agenda 21 is a name for a supposed United Nations statement on reducing the world population from above 7 billion to below 1 billion. Those who believe this is a goal of the United Nations believe that it will take place effectively by hoarding everyone off of the land and into cities, where they will be reliant upon others for food production. They also believe that it will take the form of state-funded or state-mandated abortions. In some cases, they believe that autism caused by vaccines is a way to lower the population since people with autism are far less likely to have children than those without.

This is an important context for the standoff, because some of those involved believed that they were not fighting for the freedom of two men they believed to be wrongfully convicted of arson or even over obscure questions of natural and Constitutional law, but for their very lives, livelihood and posterity against a tyrannical would-be one-world government. One does not need to agree with the world view of these people to see it as an important factor in the standoff.

Who Are Bundy and Finicum?

history of the Oregon standoffAmmon Bundy is a name probably known to many readers of this website. He is the son of Cliven Bundy, the man who had previously stood up to the BLM over grazing rights in Nevada in 2014. Ammon had recently formed the group Citizens for Constitutional Freedom. A faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Ammon believed, as did his father, that his resistance to the federal government was not merely political, but specifically ordered by God.

Lavoy Finicum, also a member of the Church of Latter-Day Saints, was another leader of the movement. Like Cliven Bundy, Finicum decided that he was no longer going to pay grazing fees to the BLM. He published a video on YouTube where he stated that he did not believe that it was legal for the federal government to own the land in question, and cited Cliven Bundy as a direct inspiration for his new stand against the federal government. He refused to pay $12,000 in fees accrued in under six months.

Finicum had also been on the federal radar after he was erroneously named in a case against William Keebler, who planted a bomb at a BLM cabin. If there are any MSNBC viewers out there, you might know Finicum as “tarp man” due to his omnipresent blue tarp that he used to protect himself from the elements.

Background: The Hammond Arson Case

It’s not necessary to get too lost in the weeds on the Hammond arson case, however it does bear a simple retelling. Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr. and his son Steven Dwight Hammond were convicted of two counts of arson in 2012, in relation to two fires they set in 2001 and 2006. The pair agreed not to appeal their sentences in exchange for having other charges dropped. The father served three months and the son served a year and a day, the whole of their sentence.

After release, however, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (who else?) demanded that they be resentenced. The pair were resentenced for five years, with credit for time served and ordered to return to prison. They were eventually pardoned by President Trump on July 10, 2018. However, in the interim, Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne made plans for what they called a peaceful protest. The Hammonds eventually rejected the help of this protest, but it went ahead anyway.

On November 5, 2015, Bundy arranged a meeting with Sheriff David Ward for later that day. Bundy and Payne insisted that the sheriff do all that he could to protect the Hammonds from returning to prison. Ward explained that there wasn’t much he could do. He also reported that Bundy and Payne became somewhat threatening and aggressive when he told them this. It was then that the specter of an armed militia was raised.

In early December 2015, both Bundy and Hammond had moved to the area. They began organizing a “Committee of Safety” modeled on those of the Revolutionary period. Local residents began to notice a lot of outsiders in the community at this time and they weren’t exactly a welcome addition – many would aggressively ask locals about their opinion on the matter. Local police and federal employees in the area reported that they, their spouses and even their children had been followed home or to school by militia members. Open carry became common in a place where, previously, it had not.

The situation was incredibly tense. There were two public forums early in January 2016, designed to defuse tensions between locals and militia members. After a peaceful January 2nd protest ended, Ammon Bundy urged people to join him in an armed occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

The Standoff at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Ammon and Ryan Bundy moved to the refuge with a number of armed participants and began setting up defensive positions. Law enforcement largely avoided the refuge due to the tense situation and the presence of armed militia members, however, federal, state and county law enforcement swarmed the general area, including an FBI command center at the local airport. There were also paid informants within the group of occupiers. The standoff continued for six weeks, largely without incident. There was a lot of bluster, mostly from the Bundy camp, but not much happened for the most part. Court orders were issued and ignored. January 6th saw a fistfight between a group called “Veterans on Patrol” and militants in the refuge.

Indeed, the occupation was largely uneventful, save for the death of LaVoy Finicum. On January 26th, Finicum left the refuge with other leaders and supporters of the occupation in a two-truck convoy. It was here that federal authorities attempted to arrest him for the first time using a traffic stop. Ammon Bundy and Brian Cavalier were peacefully arrested at this time.

Finicum was quite nearly arrested. His truck was stopped and hit with a 40mm plastic-tipped round of pepper spray. It was at this time that he refused to kill the engine on his truck and informed officers that the only way they were going to prevent him from reaching his rendezvous point was to shoot him. He is reported to have yelled at the Oregon State Police: “You back down or you kill me now. Go ahead. Put the bullet through me. I don’t care. I’m going to go meet the sheriff. You do as you damned well please.”

Seven minutes after the stop, Finicum drove off in his truck with two passengers. His truck became stuck in the snow before a roadblock. He narrowly avoided hitting an FBI agent. He ran out of his truck and was fired upon twice by the Oregon State Police, which they did not initially disclose. One hit his truck and the other went wild as Finicum moved around in the snow. According to the FBI, he alternated between holding his hands up and reaching toward his jacket where he had a loaded semi-automatic weapon.

According to the Oregon State Police, Finicum repeatedly yelled, “You’re going to have to shoot me!” and the officers considered him a lethal threat to an officer armed only with a taser. They claimed that he reached for his pocket. Two officers fired a total of three times with a third officer holding his fire when he realized that a fourth shot wasn’t needed. He was provided with medical assistance 10 minutes after the shooting. Finicum’s supporters note that he was struggling in the snow, which might account for his strange movements. They also note that at no time did he threaten to produce a weapon.

According to footage and witnesses featured in the documentary American Standoff, officers shot Finicum the moment he stepped out of his truck with his hands up, and continued to fire shots at the vehicle as well as gas the other two passengers. Finicum, it is also worth noting, was a sitting duck with multiple law enforcement agents sitting behind cover and him in the open snow. And, of course, it bears repeating that the FBI fired first, then lied about it.

Even more damning is that Finicum and the others were headed to a townhall arranged by the local sheriff. Rather than being given safe passage – something that might have defused tensions – he was ambushed, with women and children in the car no less.

Aftermath of the Occupation

FBI Agent W. Joseph Astarita was prosecuted for five counts of lying to investigators in relation to Finicum’s death. He was acquitted on all of them. A tape of the incident was released to the public, however, as is often the case, people saw what they wanted to see. The Finicum family commissioned a private autopsy, but did not share the results with the public. Finicum’s widow Jeanette filed suit against the Oregon State Police, while his family filed a wrongful death suit against the federal government, the State of Oregon, the Bureau of Land Management and many other public officials and government organizations.

The occupation continued for another two weeks but had largely lost steam as the militants’ leaders had mostly been arrested or surrendered or both. On the afternoon of February 10th, some remaining militants drove past a roadblock at high speed. Michele Fiore attempted to mediate the situation and de-escalate. This resulted in the remaining militants surrendering at 8am the next day.

All told, 27 militants were arrested in relation to the occupation, 26 of these for a single federal count of conspiracy to impede officers of the U.S. from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation, or threats. Several of these were indicted on state charges as well.

Why Does the Oregon Standoff Matter?

The standoff in Oregon matters for two main reasons: First, it is yet another example of how an armed population can sway the hand of government. Remember that the Hammonds eventually were pardoned. But more than this, it provides a lesson in how not to go about resistance.

There is nothing to be gained by occupying an area where the local population is unsupportive. In the case of the Oregon occupation, while many in the area were sympathetic to the Hammonds and expressed such at public forums designed to mediate between the locals and the militia, the militants were largely outsiders who had come into the area to support someone who didn’t even want their support. For their part, the militiamen weren’t by all accounts going out of their way to win hearts and minds.

None of this requires absolving the federal government or the Oregon State Police for their role in the matter. It does, however, shine a light on the role of optics and tactics when confronting federal power. All things considered, this might not have been the right battle to pick.

But there is another side of this story: It is incumbent upon law enforcement to take the high road, to exercise restraint and to look for peaceful solutions rather than going in guns blazing and ratcheting up the tensions. While the local sheriff seems to have made efforts to decrease tensions, they ultimately failed to stop the feds and the state police from intensifying the situation. The proof is that Finicum is dead.

There is one last point to be made, however: Despite the outcome, the federal government now has another example to look to that will urge it to exercise caution and restraint when dealing with armed protesters. This was not a situation like Waco or Ruby Ridge. The Second Amendment and militia movements have learned a lot from these incidents in terms of responding before things spiral out of control.

The occupation might not have been perfect, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth it.

The Oregon Standoff: Understanding LaVoy Finicum’s Death & the Management of BLM Land originally appeared in The Resistance Library at Ammo.com.

 

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Author: Sam Jacobs

Sam Jacobs is the lead writer and chief historian at Ammo.com. His writing for Ammo.com's Resistance Library has been featured by USA Today, Reason, Bloomberg's Business Week, Zero Hedge, The Guardian, and National Review as well as many other prominent news and alt-news publications. Ammo.com believes that arming our fellow Americans – both physically and philosophically – helps them fulfill our Founding Fathers' intent with the Second Amendment: To serve as a check on state power. That the rights codified in our Bill of Rights were not given to us in a document, but by our Creator. That an unalienable right is God-given. It isn't granted by a president, a king, or any government – otherwise it can be taken away.

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18 Comments
Fish
Fish
January 29, 2021 7:45 am

Very good article. One thing that it doesn’t mention though is that Bundy’s ranch standoff become an iconic stand for the masses and is largely seen as a win for the common folks against the federal government. As such it was worth it in my opinion. It was worth it, even though the details may be shaky at best. It gave the people at large the hope of organizing and standing up to the government. Finicum’s response to the cops is seen as heroic and he as much as the Bundy’s are the folk heroes. No matter how messed up the reality was this is now a folks tale that lives its own life and refuses to die.

overthecliff
overthecliff
January 29, 2021 7:51 am

Stand up battles with LEO’s or military are a fools errand. Sand in the gears forcing the use of many resources is more effective. Make them keep looking over their shoulders. Pick soft targets not hard targets. They can’t protect all the communists tending bar and teaching school and spreading propaganda on FB. Fighting and violence is not the answer. Teach them the error of their ways. Education is the answer.

yahright
yahright
January 29, 2021 9:52 am

Local Ranchers where I live are often thought of as a pain in the ass. Trying to bully people while using vast swaths of scrub to try and raise cattle. Agenda 21 site has a map of all the areas thought to be sensitive that will require kicking people off their private property. yeah, the federal Gov. having rights to public land has been an issue for years.

Ghost
Ghost
January 29, 2021 11:44 am

This comes down to a question of ownership: Can the federal government simply decide that it “owns” 1/8th of the country that is supposed to be set aside for the general public? Does the federal government have such authority or does this authority reside with the states? Homesteading was technically still allowed until 1976 (1986 in Alaska), but the formation of the BLM in 1964 effectively spelled the end of homesteading in the lower 48. The argument of Ammon Bundy and company was that the federal government had no such authority, which instead rested with the states.

Everyone needs to read this, in my opinion.

Ghost
Ghost
January 29, 2021 11:50 am

It is a very well-written article, Sam and you did a great job providing a bit of background without too much detail on all the relevant issues you touched upon.

Thanks.

TS
TS
January 29, 2021 1:09 pm

I am going to state boldly, clearly and bluntly; I know more about the details and causes of the Refuge stand-off, the issue with the Hammonds and the details of the shooting of LaVoy than anyone writing or reading on this site. There are many people who are better suited to talking about this, such as Pete Santilli, to name one. Nonetheless, here I go.
My ex was the 911 dispatch supervisor, and she was raised on one of the ranches that originally contributed land to the Refuge. She worked with and was very close personal friends with Steve, Dwight and their families. I am a personal friend of them, especially Dwight. I was raised in Seneca, about 20 miles north give or take from where Finicum was shot. We moved to the ranch when I was young about 20 miles south of there. He was murdered at Joaquin Miller Campground. I went to school with the Noble kids, who lived a couple of hundred yards away from the death site. I know the area, the road and the only reason this place would be chosen for a roadblock.

There are so many vague inferences and half-truths in this article, I hardly know where to begin. Nothing blatant, but Jacobs obviously leans very heavily on the official narrative so much, as far as I’m concerned he should tattoo ‘TOOL’ on his forehead. I never gave his writing much thought, but after this I will be taking every single thing I see from him with a whole ton of salt. To actually reply as needed would probably take 10 full articles. The info is available if anyone actually wants to go looking.

I’ll say this once; I think everyone on here knows that the Fed never give, never let well enough alone, never stop until they have everything they can possibly get. Keep that in mind, because I’m not going to keep repeating it. I know; I’ve lived it for 60+ years.

If they had dealt with the Bundys and the Hammonds as they should have, none of this would’ve ever happened. Grazing rights are just that – rights. The exact same as mineral rights and water rights. The person with these rights OWN the product, whether that be oil, water or pasture. If the Feds had acted as their agents did 50 yrs ago, it would’ve been fine. Then, the agents knew that land, the people and had the common sense to recognize what worked and didn’t work. Not perfect, mind you, but generally good honest working relationships. Not so now. Now these agencies are replete with disassociated college-grad idiots who know better because a prof told them so. And I have friends and family who work for those ass-hats. Trust me, I know the inner workings extremely well. The unswerving goal, to be pursued relentlessly, is to hamper at every opportunity and eventually remove all cattle from ‘public’ lands.

Already getting too long. I’ll try to bullet form it.

– The Hammonds have been fighting the Refuge since the 60’s. The Refuge was originally formed by land donated by ranchers, who were given promises that they could continued to pasture and cut hay on their former lands. It didn’t take long before the Feds reneged and began to limit access as much as possible. And they began to buy land, often with very unethical pressure brought onto the surrounding ranchers, to grow. Always expanding, by hook or by crook. The Hammonds bought their ranch and pissed the Refuge off something terrible, because they refused to sell. There’s not enough time or room tell you about all the dirty dealing and lawsuits over the last several decades. But my ex was an eyewitness to most and, despite us being exes, is accurate and honest. Their charges of arson is a complete total crock of bullshit. The fires were backfires, trying to contain intentionally set controlled burns by the Feds, heading straight for the ranch. It got off of the private land and burned something like 140 acres of sagebrush and scrub. Hardly the acts of terrorists. Dwight did not want the stand-off because they were already nose deep in legal fights trying to maintain their historical grazing rights, NOT because they didn’t sympathize. I could go on, but you get the point. One last thing; who do you think pushed with every power at their disposal to remove the Hammonds from their ranch? And does anyone here trust them, with anything?

– The stand-off.( As a side note, the Bundys and Finicum may have been Mormons, but DO NOT conflate them with that moron .22. I have many friends and family who are Mormon, and was married to a woman raised Mormon. Not a single one has EVER acted like that idiot .22.) The Refuge Headquarters was chosen because it was empty at the time, and away from any population. It was for statement, not threat. People came and went at will. Many locals went down to see for themselves, often with young children. There was NO physical threat, ever, to anybody. All were welcome, and no one had a single harsh word to say about that group, whether they actually agreed with their actions or not. Sheriff Ward was new to the job, and had a hot potato dropped in his lap immediately. The former sheriff, Glerup, was a political animal and had very strong political survival skills. He and his brother would take another 10 articles, but I’ll let that go. Ward caved to Fed pressure immediately, which pissed off a majority of the locals, substantially. We now have a much more Constitutionally minded sheriff. The State and Fed response was SO out of proportion and SO hysterical, you would’ve had to have seen it with your own eyes to believe it. I have several friends and ex co-workers who are (or were) active in 3%ers and local militias. Good people with common sense, so don’t bad mouth them. I told them quite awhile before the shooting to be very careful, because someone was going to die, maybe several somebodies. It is with no satisfaction that I was proven correct. I know the Feds, and how the act. Anyway, an unbelievably over-the-top response that was guaranteed to escalate a small issue into what it became.

– The shooting. The occupiers were very upfront about everything they did. They announced days ahead of time that they were going to go have a confab with the Grant County sheriff in John Day, about 75 miles north of Burns, because they trusted him far more than they did Ward. How else do you think the ambush site could be so well chosen and prepared? At the first stop it was NOT a pepper bullet, but a rifle bullet that shattered the passenger side mirror. Intentional, because they knew that LaVoy would not stay put after that. Anyway, the video is available from a drone, as distant and grainy as it is. It is extremely interesting that, though the agents were all wearing cameras, not a single bit of footage from such has ever been released. And any other time, when they want it to be, the footage is always clear and close. It is very obvious that it was what is referred to as a kill-block, by location and set-up. When LaVoy rounded the corner, he couldn’t even remotely stop in time, because the highway was packed snow and slick. He headed off to the left to avoid running into the rigs. The fucking agent that he was supposed to be trying to run over, JUMPED IN FRONT OF HIM before dodging back out of the way. The entire conversation in the rig from the very first stop and what happened next is all recorded. I’ve seen and heard the raw data. LaVoy got out, hands up. He was unarmed. When his hand dropped it was probably the result of a first ab shot, to make him drop his arm to appear as if he was going for a weapon. The so called semi in his pocket was so obviously planted. It was proven that he never owned that gun, and it was in his pocket all backwards and upside down. I saw the pictures. Anybody who carries concealed would know in a second that it was planted.

As a conclusion. Every single occupier had their charges dismissed, or were found not guilty. Except for those who took a plea deal. So ask yourself – why did LaVoy have to die?

Way too long, but as I wrote, there’s already a huge amount of info to look up.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  TS
January 29, 2021 1:58 pm

That adds up exactly to everything I’ve watched and read about this.

brian
brian
  TS
January 29, 2021 2:10 pm

I think everyone on here knows that the Fed never give, never let well enough alone, never stop until they have everything they can possibly get.

and they’ll spare no expense in getting it. They’d spend millions to get a $100 from a peasant.

Ghost
Ghost
  TS
January 29, 2021 4:29 pm

Thank you so much and I am glad I drew your attention to the post so you could set the record straight.

I really think this is very important information. Everyone needs to be aware of what the Federal government considers to be federal land because they are going to sell those rights off to China. (Sarcasm, I hope.)

TS
TS
  Ghost
January 29, 2021 4:54 pm

Thanks, Mag. The dis-information is so widespread and incessant, not just about this but every single thing I have personal knowledge about, here, working for Fed contractors and in the military. So very blatant that it would be really easy to go off and cut a few throats. But that is also a desired reaction. And it’s all intentional. Why else would so much of the official info be lies, even when the truth would be more beneficial? To create mistrust and division. That is always the underlying goal. I’ve been setting the record straight to friends and family for at least 30 years now. Practically no one else wants to hear it, and quite a few of my own poo poo me. And they know I’m honest. They just do not want to hear.

Ghost
Ghost
  TS
January 30, 2021 1:33 pm

I came back by to see if Sam Jacobs might have popped in to address your comment. I think, as you said, he relied too much on “accepted” rhetoric about the standoffs.

I really am glad you came by and fleshed it out for us on such a personal level. It really adds a lot to my understanding about a lot of things.

Now, BLM… aren’t they up for a Nobel Peace Prize? (Wink…)

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  Ghost
January 29, 2021 5:06 pm

If I remember correctly, part of the Hammond saga was due to Hillary Clinton and Harry Reid trying to take the land to either lease or sell to China for a solar field.

TS
TS
  Vixen Vic
January 29, 2021 5:19 pm

The area is not well-suited for a wind or solar farm. There have been some strong rumors about uranium deals, but the core issue – and has been for about 60 years – is the desire of the Refuge to take control of the only private land in the area. Interestingly, my ex owns 40 acres of land right square in middle of the Diamond Craters, the Skunk Farm. It was passed down through her family. The Feds want it so badly they can’t hardly stand it. In fact, they set a fire while we were still married – a controlled burn, you know – that took out all of her fences. Sound familiar? But she had considerable clout, a clean record and a pugnacious character, and she made them rebuild it to her satisfaction. One of the very few success stories of that type.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  TS
January 29, 2021 6:06 pm

I’m glad your ex succeeded.

DS
DS
  TS
January 29, 2021 7:39 pm

Thanks for clarifying some of the erroneous info in his article. At the time I read as much as I could about what happened there, and watched the drone footage many times. One thing you didn’t add (not blaming you — your piece was already long) is that the “kill shot” to the head came from behind LaVoy from some scumbag who was hidden in the trees when the truck bailed into the ditch. LaVoy was facing snipers, and agents behind the police cars, when this coward came up behind him and executed him in cold blood. That still incenses me to this day…

You are 100% correct that it appears the snipers shot at his waist so he’d involuntarily grab at the wound — giving the scum fed and OSP cops “justification” to shoot to kill. That is how the feds operate, as evidenced by the “capital hill insurrection” — it “justified” the spineless RINOs in congress to renege on their support of Trump and their intention to challenge the swing states delegates. They are all about perception to manipulate the sheeple that can’t seem to think for themselves.

gman
gman
January 29, 2021 1:15 pm

“This comes down to a question of ownership: Can the federal government simply decide that it ‘owns’ 1/8th of the country that is supposed to be set aside for the general public?”

who is the general public?

try substituting the word “owns” with “controls”.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  gman
January 29, 2021 2:01 pm

According to the Constitution, the federal government is only allowed to own land for offices and military bases. But nobody pays attention to the Constitution, so there’s that.
The states are the ones that should be fighting this fight. Individuals and groups will never win on their own.

Ghost
Ghost
  Vixen Vic
January 29, 2021 4:35 pm

There is a new classification “federally protected waterlands” that caused 11 acres of my father’s farm to be federally protected and so now, the family owns it but can’t farm it or cut trees or build on it.

The Fed doesn’t own the land, they own the rights to the waterlands… however, for $1500 per acre, those protections can be lifted and the land could be farmed again. See? buy the rights back from the Fed.

How’s that? A one-time fine of $15,150 to farm your own land. Of course, the federal government never met a tax it didn’t try to use again.