Successful Without College

Guest Post by John Stossel

Successful Without College

Americans took out $1.7 trillion in government loans for college tuition.

Now, some don’t want to pay it back.

President Joe Biden says they shouldn’t have to. He wants to cancel at least $10,000 and maybe $50,000 of every student’s debt.

“They’re in real trouble,” says Biden in my latest video, “having to make choices between paying their student loan and paying the rent.”

Poor students!

But wait: Shouldn’t they have given some thought to debt payments when they signed up for overpriced colleges? When they majored in subjects like photography or women’s studies, unlikely to lead to good jobs? When they took six years to graduate (a third don’t graduate even after six years).

Shouldn’t politicians also acknowledge that it’s taxpayer loans that let bloated colleges keep increasing tuition at twice the rate of inflation?

Yes.

But they don’t.

“Dirty Jobs” host Mike Rowe points out that students’ demand for loan forgiveness is “kind of self-involved.”

“I know guys who worked hard to get a construction operation running. Some had to take out a loan on a big old diesel truck. Why would we forgive the cost of a degree but not the cost of a lease payment?”

It’s a good question.

“For some reason,” continues Rowe, “we think a tool that looks like a diploma is somehow more important than that big piece of metal in the driveway that allows the guy to build homes that you … are in.”

The political class does focus on subsidizing college.

“Now everybody is armed with a degree. What kind of world is that?” asks Rowe. “Everybody dreams of being in the corner office, but nobody knows how to build the corner office?”

Lots of good jobs in skilled trades don’t require a college degree, he points out. “The push for college came at the expense of every other form of education. Shop class was taken out of high school. We have denied millions of kids an opportunity to see what half the workforce looks like.”

It’s a reason America now has a shortage of skilled trade workers.

Yet, plumbers, elevator mechanics construction managers, etc., make $100,000 a year.

MikeroweWORKS Foundation gives young people scholarships to schools where they learn such trades. He seeks to make skilled labor “cool” again.

One Rowe scholarship recipient, Chloe Hudson, considered college but was shocked at what it cost.

“I was like, ‘I can’t afford this!’ I don’t want to be saddled with student debt the rest of my life!”

Instead, thanks to her Rowe scholarship, she learned how to weld, and now she has no trouble finding work.

“I’ve been under nuclear plants … been in water systems,” Hudson recounts. “Those jobs make me appreciate what I have now so much more.”

“What do you make?” I ask Hudson.

$3,000 a week,” she responds.

She’s appalled by today’s college student’s demand for loan forgiveness.

“There is not a single loan I have ever taken out where I didn’t have an expectation put on myself that I was going to repay it,” says Hudson. “That’s getting up at four o’clock in the morning and making sure I’m at work on time. That’s staying late. That’s working weekends.”

But now she will have to help pay for all those college students who won’t pay their debts.

“I am taxed heavily,” complains Hudson. “It’s not a good feeling to know that the government thinks that they can spend my dollars better than I can.”

Right. Government doesn’t spend our dollars better than we do. “Forgive student loans” really means workers must pay for privileged students who don’t.

John Stossel is author of “Give Me a Break: How I Exposed Hucksters, Cheats, and Scam Artists and Became the Scourge of the Liberal Media.” 

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Bill Johnson
Bill Johnson

Feminization of AmeriKa. Putin is smirking as we read this. I am so thankful I lived when I did and not now. Good luck to all you younger folks. You will need it.

Stucky

” I am so thankful I lived when I did and not now. “

Huh. Soooo ….. you’re dead?

Can you please tell us what it’s like on the Other Side? Don’t forget to tell us if you’re writing from hell, or heaven.

Steve
Steve

Another farcical boondoggle. People who actually weighed the cost/benefit analysis and wisely decided to pass on the vaunted sheep skin get to subsidize the turds without brains? After the fact they understand they bought a pricey bucket of golden shit. Just how many Afro Studies degrees and other similar worthless parchment decrees are in the possession of idiots who now want an escape clause from their own stupidity?
“You made your bed, now it’s your’s sleep in it”, Granny used to say.

brian
brian

There needs to be a tax revolt.

Why should those vehemently opposed to paying for these communist gender studies soi’s student loans, or funding the killing of the nations children thru abortions, the squandering of tax payer monies to fund gender studies in India or abortions in other countries. Theres a huge list of offensive funding the government does which I do not only disagree with but actively hate. Unfortunately it will not change until the whole thing collapses. I’m hoping soon…

Anonymous
Anonymous

Advice to my students…learn how to self-educate and learn a trade. Unless you want a professional job that requires certification, stay out of the universities. The debt and indoctrination is not worth it. These unemployable graduates ruin the country. Some of the smartest people I know did not go to college.

Abigail Adams

Llpoh
Llpoh

The absolute smartest people I know did go to college.

Your advice is asinine. I am amazed at how many on this thread are buying the bullshit nitwits like you are spreading. Unemployable grads? That is some serious moron right there. The average unemployment rate for college grads is 2%. Get that- 2 fucking percent. Jam your lies where the sun doesn’t shine.

The fact is, going to college is a huge financial benefit to the vast majority. And it is inarguable. Only a total idiot would argue it is not. I guess you are a total idiot.

The median income with a bachelor’s degree is $1250 a week. With a HS diploma it is $750. The median college grad therefor earns over a million dollars more in a working lifetime. Go to a state school costs what, $100k? That can be offset by work during those years. Even after tax, the college grad is miles ahead.

But wait – there is more! The unemployment rates for college grads are about half what they are for HS grads.

Indians (from India) are the highest earning demographic. Jews are the second highest. What do they have in common? Well, Indians have the highest average education level attained, and Jews the second highest.
Education levels correlate to income, and that is the fucking fact of it.

And here we have Abigail the idiot saying point blank that people should be getting less education. That is world class stupid.

And here is a link to the facts on this stuff. Abigail has no links, as she is all narrative, no facts.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2020/data-on-display/education-pays.htm

The advice should not be do not go to college. The advice should be do not accumulate student loans. Education is and will remain heavily correlated to higher standard of living. In fact, it will become evermore so as tech will continue to dominate the world economies.

Stucky

Too broad a brush. I think you need to make a distinction regarding the type of degree earned.

Those Indians (dots) and Jews are largely going for IT, engineering, medical type degrees. Indeed, it would be utterly retarded to say such degrees have no value.

OTOH, you have people getting degrees in anthropology, history, English (don’t we learn that by 2nd grade?), political science, dance, and a BUNCH of other worthless shit. Entire colleges, Liberal Arts colleges, are set up giving out only Shit Degrees. These graduates would be much better off learning a trade.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Not sure that is entirely true, but your comment re trades has some merit for individuals, but not the entire cohort, as there are not that many trade spots open. Did you look at the stats? 2% unemployment. Median income hundreds of dollars a week higher.

You are saying it is worthless shit. You got any proof it is worthless shit? Because I do not think it is true. Even those degrees appear to confer economic benefit above and beyond what a HS diploma does. A business degree is better than a sociology degree. But a sociology degree is better than a HS diploma, I suspect.

I will let you root out the data.

Stucky

“I will let you root out the data.”

I don’t get paid enough to do research for others. You can root it out also.

Llpoh
Llpoh

I already posted mine. You made the claims. Not me. I backed mine up.

Stucky

You posted ONE link. Woo hoo.

From BLS. Yeah, the Bureau of Lies and Statistics!! hahaha

You smokin’ peyote again?

Llpoh
Llpoh

One link = infinitely like the chicken that knocks all the chess pieces off, shits on the board, then struts around like it has won.

I kick a you Austrian ass soon as I find a ladder.

Stucky

“I kick a you Austrian ass soon as I find a ladder.”

Hoka Hey, ya cunt!!

(Practicing my Australian. 🙂 )

brian
brian

I had to up-vote this because it were just to funny…

Llpoh
Llpoh

You also got any evidence of the type of degrees they are pursuing? I suspect you are right. But these discussions need evidence. I posted my evidence that talks about median levels, which is better than using average levels of outcomes.

Stucky

When do Jews consider their children to be fully human? When they get their doctorate degree in law or medicine. There’s your proof.

==============

Top 10 popular courses in India

1.Management MBA/BBA
2. Engineering B.Tech and B.Arch, M.Tech, ME, BE
3.Computer Application-BCA/MCA
4.Designing – Fashion/Interior/Web
5.Mass-communication/Journalism BJMC
6.Hospitality (Hotel) – Hotel Management
7.Medical-BDS and MBBS
8.Finance -B.Com/CA
9.Arts Psychology and Sociology
10.Law B.ALLB/LLB
11.Education Teaching-B.Ed/M.Ed
12.Pharmacy B.Pharma/M.Pharma
13.Tourism management – B.Sc.
14.Fine Arts B.F.A
15.Nursing B.Sc. and M.Sc. in Nursing

Game. Set. Match.
.
.
https://www.reviewadda.com/institute/article/51/top-10-popular-courses-in-india

Llpoh
Llpoh

India ain’t the US. What are they studying in the US? That was and is the question I do not care what they are studying in shithole India.

Stucky

These students in India are choosing fields of study valued in India … and I’m sure influenced by family and culture.

So. What? You think that they ABANDON all that just because they study in the USA??? Get real, man.

Also, I have eyes. NJ has a huge Indian population. Can’t go a single day without seeing one. And you know what they are? Doctors, IT professionals, engineers and businessmen. You don’t see a single fucken Anthropology major in the bunch.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Here are the most popular courses in the US. Game set match to me. You see, they do not vary wildly from India. The narative that women’s studies etc dominates is false. Not that you said that, but others have.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most-popular-college-majors/

Beahahahaha! I win again.

Stucky

That’s a fairly good link. But, even there, it helps make my point. Four of the top 10 are;

— Social Sciences and History

— Psychology

— Communication and Journalism

— Visual and Performing Arts

All wastes of times and money for the majority of graduates. For example, Visual Arts graduated 88,600 in 2018. You think I believe there are 88 THOUSAND good paying artsy jobs opening each and every year? Bullshit. Most of those graduates are now asking — “would you like fries with that order?”

I’m also leaning towards Business degree being a waste for most people. Did YOU become successful because of bullshit “business” courses you learned in college … or was it something else? Seriously, some of the dumbest fuckers I’ve ever met have business degrees … with teachers barely edging them out.

You’re gonna need a BIG ladder!

Anonymous
Anonymous

Llpoh…tell me how you really feel. I didn’t even downvote you because I like your passion. I’m guessing you’re pretty old and/or probably have been living under a rock. I didn’t say people should get less education; I said people should learn to self-educate…reading comprehension, ya know, something college-educated folks should be trained in.

Anyhow, this is not the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Have you stepped into a university lately? Do you know what woke crap they’re teaching youth? I know too many who are in massive debt, working as a server, and living in mom’s basement. If you want to be in a profession that requires certification, then yes, you are going to have to go to college. Yes, I want my doctor to be medically-trained versus self-educated. But, not everyone is going to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc.

You can become a truly educated individual without relying on “woke” experts to teach you. There are so many opportunities for learning that are free or inexpensive that really no one has the excuse to not be educated these days. You are either indoctrinated, or educated.

Given the times that we are in, tell me Lloph, what industry would you advise youth these days to go in to? Give me something that hasn’t succumbed to the woke pressures of the world…the medical field, law, politics, corporate America, teaching? What industry can you work in these days that will require a college degree where you will have the freedom to decline the diversity-training, the masks, the shot without losing your income? I prefer to be self-employed where I can control my income and fate better than a “yes” man.

We are in a period of time where we desperately need people trained in the trades. I encourage entrepreneurship for many reasons. For some, learning a trade and starting your own business can be very lucrative, especially these days.

I’m youngish, went to college, and am regretful. I went in to teaching where my income was dependent on teacher’s unions. My brother did not go to college and instead focused on starting a business. He now makes over $400k per year (I know many others in a similar situation) and is at a point where he has hired teams and has more freedom with his time that he spends with his family. He will also retire much sooner than I am able. Who’s the loser here? Come on, Lloph, I know you have no problem telling me that *I* am indeed the loser in this situation.

-Abigail

Llpoh
Llpoh

Abigail – you said “ Unless you want a professional job that requires certification, stay out of the universities.” That is what you said. And I gave stats that show that is generally terrible advice.

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams

So, you inferred by me saying to stay out of the universities that I’m advocating for a less educated populace? Good grief. You are not making a great argument for the “higher educated.”

You seem to be someone who is way more impressed by someone with a lot of titles behind their name than someone who doesn’t. I don’t give a damn about the degrees behind someone’s name; I’ll need to have a conversation with that person before I can judge just how “educated” they are.

Llpoh
Llpoh

No, I am saying what the stats say – that university degree = far greater earnings on a median basis. The degree in and of itself conveys value. Whether you value a degree or not, society at large still does. And that is the fact of it.

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams

Things are changing, Llpoh! That’s my point. I don’t care what stats say. Update your thinking. Are you living in the real world or not? Did you know that in Colorado (probably other places too) that universities are requiring the shot for all staff and students in the fall? Do you want someone working for you who thinks it’s ok to exchange their freedom for an “education”? Someone who has zero convictions and who goes along to get along? I certainly don’t. That’s the kind of people who universities are producing today. I’ve seen too many professionals give in because they don’t want to lose that income. I can’t tolerate that behavior from society. Money is not everything. Maybe to you, but not me. It’s precisely why we’ve lost our country. You don’t seem to get that!

Llpoh
Llpoh

Abigail – you are all over like a mad woman pissing. Believe what you want. This discussion is about the value of a college education and student loans. If you can find even a single study that says that a college education does not add significant value in general, please present it.

You take a very simplistic view of things, are wrong on the facts, and are mixing in strawman arguments to defend points that are factually incorrect.

Leah
Leah

Lipoh, yes. From personal experience, when I hired in to the company I work for almost 30 years ago, my job title was “Clerk/Typist”. I had a double associate degree in Accounting and Management, which is whatever. I wasn’t going to put myself in debt. My dream job was medicine. In these times, I’m glad it didn’t turn out. I’d be part of America’s Frontline Doctors and probably would have lost my license.

From what I understand, my predecessor was let’s just say, less than professional. The bar was pretty low to the point that people took bets as to how long I would last.

One day, at the copy machine, one of the managers brought up the fact that I was competent and asked if I went to college. I told her of my degrees. I could see her perception of me change in an instant. I do wonder what would have happened if I didn’t have those degrees. The bar was suddenly raised.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot

If colleges had to guarantee each loan, rather than the government backing them, the number of unqualified students would drop as well as the number of useless degrees offered. This would eliminate thousands of professor positions and put these useless eaters on the street looking for work with their PHD in women’s studies.

Thersites
Thersites

Your reform could get widespread support, especially from the naïve youth by restoring bankruptcy laws. Right now students cannot escape their debt through bankruptcy law. Imagine if students could declare bankruptcy when they are unable to obtain gainful employment with their degree in lesbian dance theory. Once they are able to liquidate their student debt and the universities are then liable for that debt, the whole grievance studies departments would be abandoned.

Unfortunately we will likely get “free” college tuition and with all the restrains removed the indoctrination levels will accelerate.

Anonymous
Anonymous

Let the kids default with no impact on their credit.

The Co-Signers (their parents) will be left on the hook.

Parents:

If your kid can’t get employment sufficient to repay the loans that YOU co-signed for at the college you encouraged him to attend; then YOU fucked up!

If this happened because your kid majored in transgender dance theory, and yet you continued to co-sign the loans after he/zhe/them chose the useless major; then YOU fucked up!

If your kid simply didn’t fully understand the consequences of taking on $100,000 of debt because he was 17 or 18 yrs old and never had to budget for his life and living expenses within the constraints of a certain income; then YOU fucked up!

If your kid did fine but is to lazy to work to repay the debt; then YOU fucked up!

If your kid is not mentally or physically impaired, yet lives in your basement at age 30; then YOU fucked up!

====

Oh, and get taxpayer money (Fedgov) out of the student loan racket entirely. Just stop it. If banks or charitable groups want to take the risk; let them.

Vektor
Vektor

Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005

Steve
Steve

…and free means that AA degree will cost taxpayers twice what it does now. Thanks Govt…

overthecliff
overthecliff

Patriot we can’t make those poor dumb asses responsible.

NickelthroweR
NickelthroweR

What information is locked up in a university that I can’t find online, in ten seconds and for free? What does any current college student or recent graduate know that Alexa doesn’t know? As a business owner, why would I pay a premium for knowledge that comes with a diploma over identical knowledge that comes without a mountain of debt?

brian
brian

Why would anyone hire an employee who’s only productivity was to get a piece of paper over someone that can operate or repair machinery?? Or has the ability to fabricate a useful object from common materials like metal and wood?? Or someone that can grow or harvest not only enough food items for themselves but also for those around them.

Curious minds want to know…

Anonymous
Anonymous

Why?
Because the people running the company are simply interested in profit margin and lowering cost. They outsourced the labor to non-union foreigners to increase revenue with polymer or plastic items with planned obsolescence. Market and sell more, cheaper, and faster. Get an income stream through annual replacements.
The concept of useful items and capital goods lasting years or decades is over and we can thank the financial industry.

brian
brian

Not talking about corporations, their greed and offshoring the manufacturing of their ‘products’. Talking about those people who have built businesses and hire the citizenry to fullfil and meet their product requirements within the nations they live.

Llpoh
Llpoh

“Because the people running the company are simply interested in profit margin and lowering cost.”

True, and as it should be.

“They outsourced the labor to non-union foreigners to increase revenue.”

Almost entirely false. A small fraction of labor has been outsourced. And outsourcing does not increase revenue except to the extent that maybe people buy enough at a lower price point to generate extra revenue.

“The concept of useful items and capital goods lasting years or decades is over and we can thank the financial industry.”

Extraordinarily simplistic and generally wrong. Especially the bit about the financial industry. People themselves did this to themselves by preferencing price to quality. The regulators played a big part with energy efficiency requirements (example being Diesel engines going from iron to aluminum in order to meet EPA requirements (reduce weight).

Llpoh
Llpoh

Well, Brian, because making stuff out of metal or wood is often done by tech process these days. And the design of such stuff is definitely often done via tech these days. And because there is increasingly less demand for people that can do such, as those fields and jobs have been and are being automated away.

brian
brian

Wow… I’ve yet to see an automated carpenter build a house, or cabinetry. I can’t say I’ve seen an automated mechanic either and try as I might a metal fabricator robot just is nowhere to be found. I must lead a sheltered life. I would love to see the automated electrician, plumber and HVAC bots working, a sight to see I’m sure. How long do the batteries last in them!?!?

Llpoh
Llpoh

Brian – you have no idea what you are talking about. Entire house frames are already being built via automation, no skilled tradesmen needed. Engines are being built without intervention of human hand save to start the bolts, and that is getting closer. Cabinetry is being made without skilled trades. Mechanical repair is lagging.

But all of those fields are dying and will be largely replaced soon enough. A working lifetime is 40+ years. In forty years the need for carpenters, joiners, mechanics, woodworkers, truck drivers, etc will be drastically reduced.

In any event, the numbers currently required are already largely filled. Millions of extra tradesmen a year are not needed.

brian
brian

My friend I’m going to have to disagree with you. Where are these automated framers??? I have seen a couple companies advertising they can build a house in days with 3D print using cement. What they DON’T tell you is there is no plumbing or electrical in these places they are just shells.

I can see MAYBE more automation in larger center, cities, but not so much outside cities. And those living outside cities are there for a reason and won’t be quickly drawn back or into a city to live.

There will always be a need for college educated jobs but there will also be plenty of skilled hands needed to fill a LOT of jobs automation cannot do. This isn’t star trek or star wars future where nobody works but robots.

Millions of extra tradesmen a year are not needed.

The argument can be made against your position using this statement as well. There is no need for millions of people who studied gender dysphoria and underwater cooking. How many history teaching jobs are there available today?? Will there be a increased demand for many of these social and soft ‘science’ fields?? Perhaps in psychology as more people are going insane from marxist culture warfare.

The valuation of education is subjective to the person. I see zero value in some soi boi with a sheep skin in social justice thats only ever made someone coffee at starbusks than a guy/gal that knows how to add circuits to an existing electrical system without burning down the place.

Equally valuable is the person college educated that can get the required paperwork and organize a schedule for loading a ship at dockside. The caveat with office personnel is they are far easier to replace with automation than the skilled labourer is. I trained in Marine Oprations and in an office that once paid 15 employees is down to about 5 because software does most of the work and its more so a person is a data entry person… VERY LITTLE skill involved in data entry. So even your vaulted college educated are gonna be wiped out by low skilled typists, data entry personnel.

Times are a changing…

Llpoh
Llpoh

Brian – here is an example of framing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP83m3CySfQ

A great many jobs will be affected, as you say. But you are dramatically underestimating the effect automation will have on trades.

House framing is well underway to be automated. Australia is trialling bricklayers. Electrical work is underway. Truck driving will be automated. Etc.

In manufacturing, by the time I called it a day I was building goods with 2 people that would have taken 10 forty years ago. And so it goes.

Fixing broken things will be the last to go as it is not repetitive and requires diagnostics. But even repairmen – auto mechanics – are feeling the pinch slowly but surely, as diagnostics are automated.

brian
brian

I get the automated argument but I also think you are vastly over estimating that as well.

For example, take the german automated framing vid. It takes personnel to operate, change tooling etc. There will always be a need for bodies. Machines don’t do well beyond if-then-else statements.

The problem with the german factory is thus, it takes millions of dollars to build a factory that is limited in the amount of homes that can be built and they are limited to designs that can be imported into the system.

So at some point, like always, cost of building a multi-million dollar factory becomes cost prohibitive and is cheaper for warm bodies with skills not constrained by a ridged set of plans. When I was in construction the owners near always changed the plans by wanting something in a different location. Something robots cannot accommodate as once processed you are stuck with the results.

I think you are counting to much on tech. Yes things change but warm bodies will always be required. As good as AI is getting it won’t get to the point of thinking. IMO, thats a bridge to far, some things like in the I Robot movie or in star trek are just what they are… fantasy. Some gets realized… much will never get realized.

If I were a betting person I’d say that there is a greater threat to the office tower than there is to the electrician or the local mechanic. I also think people would prefer to deal with other people than a machine… press 1 to agree, press 2 to disagree, press 3 to feel like you are accomplishing something or press 4 for the slim chance an operator will attend you.

On that we can agree to disagree…

btw… i’m not down voting you. I only down vote stucky cause he likes it that way…

Anonymous
Anonymous

Go become an engineer, a chemist, a mathematician, a physicist, a doctor, a lawyer, and accountant … minus the pricey credentials, of course.

You have no dollars and 1 min. and 10 seconds … GO!

Llpoh
Llpoh

Nickel – education and information/data are not the same thing. Education allows you develop judgement. You cannot look judgement up in a book.

Fatman from Oz
Fatman from Oz

I said it before. I would be happy to forgive all the student loan amount on the proviso that the diploma is returned and shredded in front of a bankruptcy court judge.
As a condition of the bankruptcy you will not be entitled to utter that you were in college/university nor can you put in writing that you attend such an establishment. All future resumes will be verified and checked for such breaches.
Any breach shall nullify the said bankruptcy contract and interest and principal shall commence as well as a substantial fine.
These kidults at college should have to at least suffer some consequence for their lack of financial understanding.

Llpoh
Llpoh

The Oz way of collecting is better – take the loans back as a tax.

Gomer
Gomer

The colleges got woke, let them go broke. Take it from their college endowment fund. Also, if the student skips out of paying, keep the sheep skin as opposed to shearing us(the tax payer).

olde reb

I do not see any constitutional provision that authorizes the Federal government to guarantee loans for private individuals from privately owned banks. The bankers make the loans and the government took the risk—and forbid discharge in bankruptcy. That is indentured servitude. B.S.

Jubilee
Jubilee

This is one liberal idea that conservatives need to get behind. The specifics need to be worked out, and there will be winners and losers, but if you want a future for your (grand)children and the real America, student loans have to be forgiven.

Sure, there’s some dumb asses who will benefit, the nuts liberals and all. But there’s also all these beautiful young woman tricked into squandering their fertile years for a corporate paymaster. Their miserable and know what they really want (a family) but feel like they have to make their college costs “worth it”.

And before you blame the students, remember they’ve been tricked into thinking college was good and required since kindergarten. And have had no life perspective to know better. To change this needs to come from parents and teachers.

And yes, I have a dog in this fight. I’m paying for a reasonable (relatively, of course) and good reputation state school and a one-year grad program to get accounting degree, and am CPA licensed. 5+ plus years of professional work working my ass off and what do I have to show for it? Jack shit.

brian
brian

what do I have to show for it? Jack shit.

Guess you should have chosen a better career option…

Llpoh
Llpoh

If you are a CPA and having nothing to show for it, you are fucking the goat and need to take a hard look at yourself. The average CPA salary is $120k. After 20 years it is more than $150k.

If you are not attaining those levels, you Ave done something seriously wrong.

falconflight
falconflight

Depends on how much jack shit is.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Indeed! Lots of younger folks – jubilee is likely around 28 by the sound of it – think they should be CEO of a major corporation by age 28.

So, either jubilee is not meeting salary benchmarks, or jubilee did not understand the salary that is likely to come with a CPA.

The big CPA carrot is of course becoming partner in a successful firm. Whining about not accomplishing Jack shit before the age of 30 will not help.

Also, jubilee’s idea of hard work, and my idea of hard work, are probably different. My experience with 28 year olds is they think 40 hours a week is hard work. When I was 28 I was working 70 plus hours a week. Wonder if jubilee is doing that? By the time I was 30 I had lapped the competition.

cz
cz

i’m assuming this wrestler had some success without college:

Rusty Shackleford
Rusty Shackleford

He didn’t slap Stossel hard enough.

ASIG
ASIG

He should’a ducked!

ILuvCO2
ILuvCO2

Off this topic, I saw a John Stossel vid with another woman a few years back when he was promoting GMO foods and saying pesticides were the best. Fuck him and the donkey he rode in on.

Stucky

This article — “Is College Worth It? Going Beyond Averages” — presents an honest view, both pro AND con. Here are he key excerpts;

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“The evidence is strong that a college degree is worth the investment despite this risk. [Llpoh wins]

The typical college graduate will earn roughly $900,000 more than the typical high school graduate over their working life.

96% of college graduates will out earn the median high school graduate if they have no college costs, though this drops to 87% for those who pay $50,000 a year.

74% of college graduates will make at least $500k more than the typical high school graduate if they have no college costs, though this drops to 56% for those who pay $50,000 a year.

Even after controlling for potential biases and risks, it’s still worth it. The net present value of a college degree is $344,000 for the average person.

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But the risk of an investment in higher education is heavily tied to completion. [Neither of us mentioned it — tie]

There is little payoff without a degree, and 6 in 10 students who start don’t ever finish.

When you take into account the significant number of students who start but don’t complete, there is a 78% chance that attending college will “pay off” if there are no costs. But it is basically a coin flip if your annual costs are $50,000.

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What a student majors in can also make a big difference. [Stucky wins]

STEM and Business majors are very likely to pay off, even with high college costs.

An arts/humanities graduate who attended a private school (and had average costs of attendance) has roughly 50/50 odds that the net present value of their college investment will be positive.
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Final standings 1-1-1 for llpoh and me. No one wins, no one loses, but we both get Participation Trophies. We live to fight another day.
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https://www.thirdway.org/report/is-college-worth-it-going-beyond-averages

Llpoh
Llpoh

Damn, I hate that when that happens. But I think “the evidence is strong” trumps “can make a big difference”.

brian
brian

BUT… Thats college/university over high school which is obvious that a higher education will earn more over they lifetime. Unless you are a dirtball like bill gates.

Whats not compared is a person in a trade or is this considered a college education too?? Because with a trade you are earning from day one and have little to no debt.

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