Oops: MIT researchers infiltrate ‘anti-maskers,’ but find they ‘practice a form of data literacy in spades’

Submitted by Vixen Vic

Via Lifesite News

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CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts, May 11, 2021 (LifeSiteNews) – A group of scientists from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has released a research paper examining the scientific justification behind groups which challenge the purportedly scientific basis of restrictions introduced on the back of COVID-19, admitting that such groups “value unmediated access to information and privilege personal research and direct reading over ‘expert’ interpretations.”

The paper, published in January and titled “How Coronavirus Skeptics Use Orthodox Data Practices to Promote Unorthodox Science Online,” aimed to show how “activist networks of anti-mask users [a term used to describe lockdown protestors generally] leverage the rhetoric of scientific rigor in order to oppose public health measures like mask mandates or indoor dining bans.”

A team of five researchers, comprised of four MIT academics as well as a mathematician from Wellesley College, observed online communities of “COVID skeptics” over a six month period by joining groups on Facebook and Twitter, where they collected data by “deep lurking,” a method described by the team as “a mode of participating by observing specific to digital platforms.”

The group reportedly analyzed “close to half a million tweets that use data visualizations to talk about the pandemic,” as well as “over 41,000 images” of graphs and charts used by “anti-mask groups” to demonstrate the myriad statistics from COVID-related studies.

Although the paper is permeated with an undercurrent of ridicule towards any lockdown skepticism, the authors frequently were forced to admit a high level of scientific competency and literacy among critics of non-medical interventions against the Wuhan coronavirus.

In order to further downplay the importance of critical thinking, the group asserted that “calling for increased media literacy can often backfire: the instruction to ‘question more’ can lead to a weaponization of critical thinking and increased distrust of media and government institutions.” According to the authors, skeptical groups have capitalized “on the skeptical impulse that the ‘science simply isn’t settled,’ prompting people to simply ‘think for themselves,’” a danger that they say has already led “to horrifying ends.”

For example, the authors at one point claim that their study “finds that anti-mask groups practice a form of data literacy in spades.” They went on to say that “[w]ithin this constituency, unorthodox viewpoints do not result from a deficiency of data literacy” but that, in fact, “sophisticated practices of data literacy are a means of consolidating and promulgating views that fly in the face of scientific orthodoxy.”

In addition, the study found that “anti-mask groups on Twitter often create polished counter-visualizations that would not be out of place in scientific papers, health department reports, and publications like the Financial Times.” Counter-visualizations is a term used to describe graphical representations of COVID-related statistics which refute or otherwise challenge the data used by public health officials to justify civil restrictions.

In essence, the research team admitted that skeptical groups have relied on robust datasets in order to challenge the opposing assertions of medical elites, like the radically pro-mask Dr. Anthony Fauci. However, the researchers framed their paper in such a way as to discredit or cast doubt on the skeptics’ conclusions, insisting government-backed views are “scientific orthodoxy.”

The team expressed their clear disagreement with the positions of so-called COVID skeptics, describing their temptation “to characterize COVID skeptics as simply ‘anti-science,’” as Fauci and many other elites have. However, the researchers ultimately commended skeptics as acknowledging “the subjectivity of how datasets are constructed” and their subsequent effort “to reconcile the data with lived experience,” thus ruling out Fauci’s blanket tarring.

“Far from ignoring scientific evidence to argue for individual freedom,” the researchers conceded, “anti-maskers often engage deeply with public datasets.”

“[T]hese groups seek to make the process of understanding data as transparent as possible in order to challenge the powers that be.”

The study found that both pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown groups utilize public health data to bolster their claims for and against public health mandates, though drawing different conclusions. The researchers noted that lockdown skeptics in particular “are critical about the data sources used to make visualizations in data-driven stories.” This leads more skeptical groups to “engage in lengthy conversation about the limitations of imperfect data,” according to the study.

“These anti-mask activists therefore conclude that unreliable statistics cannot be the basis of policies that actively harm people by isolating them and leaving businesses to collapse en masse,” the authors wrote. Furthermore, “anti-maskers often reveal themselves to be more sophisticated in their understanding of how scientific knowledge is socially constructed than their ideological adversaries, who espouse naive realism about the ‘objective’ truth of public health data.”

MIT researchers fret about ‘weaponization of critical thinking’ making more people distrust media, government institutions

Failing any statistical or scientific refutation of the logic behind lockdown skepticism, the researchers then offered an alternative prism through which skeptical groups can be seen to be erring in their analyses.

The team compared lockdown skeptics to rioters at the U.S. Capitol building on January 6, an event that they said has “similarly illustrated that well-calibrated, well-funded systems of coordinated disinformation can be particularly dangerous when they are designed to appeal to skeptical people.” The researchers unqualifiedly claim that “the coup relied on a collective effort fanned by people questioning, interacting, and sharing these ideas with other people,” placing any person or group questioning of common assumptions into the category of criminal instigators.

“Anti-maskers often reveal themselves to be more sophisticated in their understanding of how scientific knowledge is socially constructed than their ideological adversaries, who espouse naive realism about the ‘objective’ truth of public health data.”

In order to further downplay the importance of critical thinking, the group asserted that “calling for increased media literacy can often backfire: the instruction to ‘question more’ can lead to a weaponization of critical thinking and increased distrust of media and government institutions.” According to the authors, skeptical groups have capitalized “on the skeptical impulse that the ‘science simply isn’t settled,’ prompting people to simply ‘think for themselves,’” a danger that they say has already led “to horrifying ends.”

The study characterized the skepticism of mainstream media-touted COVID data as “an act of resistance against the stifling influence of central government, big business, and liberal academia.” Such groups, they said, are “highly reflexive about the inherently biased nature of any analysis, and resent what they view as the arrogant self-righteousness of scientific elites.”

Most fundamentally,” they wrote, “the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution.”

So convincing is their painting of the lockdown-skeptical rationale that the authors made direct clarifications that they are “not promoting these views,” but are seeking to “better understand how ‘analyzing data’ can take on different meanings during a time of crisis.” Expanding, they wrote that “simply increasing access to raw data or improving the quality of data visualizations will not bolster public consensus about scientific findings,” but they did not offer a reason why more access to information appears to divide opinion.

Accordingly, “[c]onvincing anti-maskers to support public health measures in the age of COVID-19 will require more than ‘better’ visualizations, data literacy campaigns, or increased public access to data,” the researchers concluded.

“For these anti-mask users, their approach to the pandemic is grounded in more scientific rigor, not less.”

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hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer

“…a weaponization of critical thinking…”

That was the money shot.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot

You left off the best part of the quote – “and increased distrust of media and government institutions.”

Ken31
Ken31

I have been thinking about that. I didn’t have it to the degree I do now, but maybe some years ago. A lot of shit has been thrown at people at once who weren’t quite prepared. Then I see people entertaining flat earth, and then I am entertaining some things I didn’t before.

Out of chaos.

I found this link and I thought it was some heavy shit.

The Acorn – 65
A great thinker does not hammer truth to the wall with the nails of a system, because he knows in doing so the truth will die. Instead, he presents his conscious experience of life, either structuring this description with an easily understood system, or ignoring maps and models altogether. It is life which matters to our greatest philosophers, which is why their work is like life; strange, funny, simple, vivid and, ultimately, elusive. Great philosophy, taking the principle of nature as its source and subject, is like something in nature, the growth of ivy perhaps, or the song of a wren, or the activity of an ant’s nest; messy perhaps, erratic here and there, but it holds together as one, and it speaks.

Abstract philosophy, on the other hand, is similar to a power-tool; well reasoned, internally coherent, but lifeless, humourless and mechanical. It is conspicuously bereft of interesting examples or meaningful metaphors from life, or even a sense that life, the living reality we humans are part of, is anywhere involved, for the simple reason that abstract philosophers do not really live. If they started addressing life, putting in examples and metaphors from it, the chronic poverty of their lives would be instantly exposed, and that won’t do. Better to rumble on and on about matters of no interest or concern to anyone but dried up philosophical bean-counters.

Academic philosophers spend most of their lives in institutions. They are institutionalised, and paid to manufacture justifications for an institutional — which is to say, hyper-specialised and unreal — existence. This is why they never have anything to say in any other medium, or even any other field. Nothing creative, certainly, nothing personal or human that would enable you to experience that from which such qualities arise, their character or our context (the world that appears in the work of professional philosophers is completely unrecognisable to anyone who is on the receiving end of it). It’s also why you so very rarely get the sense reading philosophy that there is a real human being behind the words, an individual who lives in the real world, a friendly companion. It’s the same with the science that so much philosophy trails after, where use of the word ‘I’ evokes a sense of shame, masquerading under an almost obsessive need to be ‘objective’.

The individual, the selfless I, is irrelevant to matters of fact, and that, we are told, is what we are dealing with here. Except it isn’t, is it? Philosophy is not primarily about matters of fact, but about the ultimate “cause” and quality of those facts. Philosophy is supposed to address itself to pressing questions of existence, to the reality and nature of consciousness, love, art, beauty, god, self, sex, death, creativity, madness, addiction and freedom, none of which can be reduced to rational fact and logical argument any more than the taste of orange juice can be reduced to a description of the effect of water, sugar and citric acid on the relevant cells of the body.

This is why many students who take philosophy degrees have the distinct feeling that they’ve got on the wrong train. They expect to be dealing with the towering mysteries of human existence, they expect to be studying the accounts of the immortals who went before us, who attempted to scale the same heights, they expect to be guided on this odyssey by interesting people who have made the same journey and returned with pristine insights into the path ahead. What they find instead is a cross between a librarian and an accountant piling up items of knowledge like coloured beads then handing them out to confused and bored young people who are expected to categorise them in, at best, a slightly different way to those who preceded them…

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer

This deserves its own post.

“If they started addressing life, putting in examples and metaphors from it, the chronic poverty of their lives would be instantly exposed, and that won’t do.”

That may be one of the best explanations for the disconnect between the two world views we are currently experiencing.

Very insightful, deeply philosophical and most importantly it resonates with reality.

Known Associate
Known Associate

Lest we forget:
– There is no such thing as “Settled Science”
– Science is a process of improvement of understanding,
– The true aim of which is to take a hard look at any current “theory”
– And assiduously work to disprove it, so that our understanding can take the next step
– Lather, rinse, repeat.
– As Isaac Newton counseled us, and Richard Feynman reminded us: “We are standing on the shoulders of giants, in order to see farther and take the next step in understanding the works of God.”
– These were true scientists, and the giants upon whose shoulders we now stand, if we have the courage.
– As my father taught me (he was a pioneer in putting nuclear power into service as a source of energy and propulsion) “the deeper we look into the mysteries of the universe, the more clearly we see the moving hand of God”

– As I learned during 10 years of science education at UCSD and UCB, and another 20 years of practice as a pharmaceutical research SCIENTIST, we are never done improving our theories and our theories are NEVER SETTLED.

The problem we have today is that “THE SCIENCE” (a tragic travesty of the real thing promoted by politicians and their sycophants) has been enslaved into the service of politics and profit, and is set upon the immovable throne of Satan.

Some say that opposing “science orthodoxy” is anathema to science. Actually, the practice of science is to continually and rigorously deny any such thing as “orthodoxy”, since science is a moving target that can never be reliably hit. Those who deny this are not scientists, they are propagandists.

Whenever one encounters the bloviating “expert” or “authority” upon the topic of science, one may withdraw from the encounter with confidence and continue to move the goalposts with each new bit of data to the contrary. Those who have the fortitude to do so are the true scientists, regardless of formal education and depending only upon an open mind, open eyes and open heart.

There is no such thing as SETTLED SCIENCE, that term is intentionally misleading and designed specifically to dis-empower those few of us remaining that think for themselves.
Never quit working to understand deeply, no matter how high the seas or how stiff the headwinds.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Ken31, nice post.

Francis Marion

I liked this:

“sophisticated practices of data literacy are a means of consolidating and promulgating views that fly in the face of scientific orthodoxy.”

‘Data literacy’ promotes views that ‘fly in the face of scientific orthodoxy’.

Jesus. How does anyone write something like this with a straight face?

Paul
Paul

The left are REALLY INTO lies. Their poisoned minds are full of deceit.

Thersites
Thersites

‘think for themselves,’” a danger that they say has already led “to horrifying ends.

For sure, let the government do the thinking for you, it has always turned out well. Yeesh, I’m surprised these MIT drones were even able to recognize independent thinking, it apparently isn’t a recommended practice at MIT.

Ken31
Ken31

There has to be some common ground. When there is none… When they can get you to believe in preposterous things….People are not allowed to know themselves. That is what is so horrible. This is independent of any of an infinitely number of possible sane belief systems.

Jim
Jim

I must agree with “thersites”.
Horrifying ends ? anything that goes anti-establishment will fit nicely into that bucket of poop.
All i can say is this……wait until this fall when those who got the “Jab” start dropping like flies. of course the
“Un-vaxed” will be blamed ? how can that be ?
if you been vaxed, YOU should be protected from this so called disease right ? NOT !
same with wearing a f’n mask. you have one on, what the problem with myself not wearing one ? your protected from me right ? I am the one taking the risk, not those ignorant “yesa masta sheeple”. so now hit me up with the racism crap. get a life.
the so called “vaccination” is simply a continuation the bio-weapon that has been released within this so called disease.
Time will tell. only problem that will come up, even though it will not be properly addressed, why only those vaxed are the ones dying ?
For that one, anyone can do hat i have done, start looking at those sick and dying…..i have found in my area nearly all those that are vaxed…..they are only ones to be sick and or dying. OR, those living or in close proximity to those that have been vaxed.
Why is it no one is talking about ( those up top ) that 97.6% of those “infected”, when properly treated…..using antibiotics that have been outlawed by the way, recover with no side effects ?
sorry people, Satan has complete control and these lies only advance his position.
We have B. Gates running the show. a high school graduate barely, now running the world health center ? A doctor, so called Fraudchi, who hasn’t seen a client in what 30 years ?
yeh, OK, plat your games and get vaxed. russian rulet can be fun for some i guess.

BUCKED/BUY MORE AMMO/BOURBON TOO
BUCKED/BUY MORE AMMO/BOURBON TOO

The hardest part of our future existence is finding a blood donor that hasn’t been vaccinated .

Zulu Foxtrot Golf
Zulu Foxtrot Golf

Fucken nerd double-speak to justify their not getting laid. Fucken mathematician weasel should have been able to suss that data if he was a true mathematician.

TampaRed

good find,vic–

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Thank you, TampaRed.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot

I always thought that scientists were supposed to question theories with the intent of disproving them.

Austrian Peter

That was then TNP, when scientists applied true scientific method. Now they are captured by the politicians and compromised by their funding.

It’s all about the money now IMHO. This article confirms their complete subservience to TPTB. I am surprised how forthright they have been about how they feel – clearly they are rattled – which is excellent news.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot

Peter – Follow the money seems to apply in almost every situation.

It is good they are scared of the handful who still use critical thinking and do not march along in lockstep with their masters. It remains to be seen if we are up to the task of taking them down.

Austrian Peter

We will win TNP, of this I am convinced because lies eventually get found out – it must be a universal truth I think.

Left-Hand Thread
Left-Hand Thread

Yes, but I’d hope to avoid the 20 million dead in the meantime…

Austrian Peter

I fear it’s too late for that. If indeed the vaccine is what we think it is the die is cast; I understand that it is not reversible. I hope to God that I am wrong.

goingdark
goingdark

Try about 230 MILLION people…

bigfoot
bigfoot

The emotional process: “Goin’ for the the the tenure, by god, and piss on you horrifying spoilers of the the the status quo, by god!”

Steve
Steve

So, the anti-maskers can think critically and are not swallowing the officially presented BS narrative.
This in turn is driving those presenting the official BS crazy.
Ha Ha!
It’s only going to get worse for them as time exposes the lies and more truths are revealed.

Austrian Peter

Exactly how I assessed it Steve – we are winning!

Smoke em if you got em
Smoke em if you got em

Were these scientists from the FarSide comics?

messianicdruid
messianicdruid

I want a signed copy.

Jdog
Jdog

In my State the death rate for COVID is now less that 1 in a million. Really? You want me to worry about that?

Anonymous
Anonymous

This is the first salvo that will lead to officially sanctioned “wrong think”

1984 was supposed to be a cautionary tale, not a fucking operators manual.

mark
mark

VV,

Hope you don’t mind me putting in these related two articles from State of the Nation…in your excellent thread.

Was hoping some others with more insights to these two articles would take an interest and chime in.

S U R A M I N: How the COVID-1984 Global Control Regime Can Be Terminated

https://stateofthenation.co/?p=64167

ANTIDOTE TO THE COVID CONTAGION:
Must Read! Must Do! Everyone!

https://stateofthenation.co/?p=64024

Austrian Peter

This is excellent stuff Mark, thank you – you always seem to be ahead of the game and I am forever in your debt for the HCQ. But now it’s Ivermectin I understand – both work though.

Now this Suramin story is quite bizarre and I have passed it on to my doctor colleague for assessment.

mark
mark

Peter,
I have 32 Ivermectin pills, two apple flavored horse tubes of it from my feed store (they have 3 brands), and my original serious stash of HCQ…plus a host of immune support vitamins and herbs…and of course plenty of Colloidal Silver.

State of the Nation is an unusual site…supposedly started by former good guy retired military Intel officers around when Obama was re-selected in 2012.

I am more worried about shedding now from the Injected Zombie carriers than I am any other angle of the virus dangle…and if what is in these two links is true…SHUT THE FRONT DOOR AND GIVE ME A CUP OF PINE NEEDLE TEA!

Was hoping some of the many sharper TBP knives than me with my dull butter knife mind could look into this and comment?

Austrian Peter

Thanks Mark, we both seem to be prepared. I sent the Nation State articles to my doctor friend in Oz – this is what he said:

“Hi Peter,

The article is Bullshit loud and clear. And ………

The idea that the Spike Protein fragments created by a “vaccine” can be spread from the vaccinated to the unvaccinated easily by breathing or coughing is unlikely IMHO.

The Spike Protein fragments from the “vaccines” are in the bloodstream. You cannot cough them from the bloodstream. So ……….. They would have to penetrate the endothelial layer, then move from the endothelial cells into the lung cells. Then they would have to move from the lung cells into the airways to be coughed out.

That is a lot of movement for a protein fragment — it is possible (theoretically) but unlikely. There is no transport mechanism that the body uses to extrude proteins or protein fragments in to the airway for expulsion (as far as I know).

The body prefers to deal with foreign proteins and protein fragments in the kidneys.

Is this all making sense?

I watched the 5 Doctors video previously. Only Lee Merritt has real credibility and she does not address this issue as far as I can recall.

Cheers, Gerry”

Make what you will of it Mark, – it is well above my pay grade, so I will just keep a watchful eye and see what develops.

mark
mark

Way over my head as well…thanks Peter…but here is some more on it I just found…just listening to it now.

I will continue to dig….this is starting powerfully.

JEFFREY PRATHER INTERVIEWS MIKE ADAMS ABOUT COVID, PINE NEEDLE TEA, NATIVE MEDICINE AND MORE.

https://www.brighteon.com/9b570875-d945-48df-97e8-32baefd393fd

Austrian Peter

Thanks Mark – I too will keep digging

mark
mark

Peter,

Send that vid to your friend.

Austrian Peter

Already done it Mark, thanks.

Known Associate
Known Associate

Some apparent facts:
– COVID-19 was created thru gain of function tech, by inserting the code for the spike protein (this code has been around since HIV was developed) which causes cardiopulmonary cell damage leading to respiratory stress.
– Like most infectious viruses, this one DOWN-MUTATES, meaning that variants are generally less infectious than the original.
– So it was a biological weapon that as usual, was a DUD, because humans are stronger than viruses or there would be only viruses.
– That was known in advance by the fucks who developed and released it and so they had the VAXX ready to roll.
– What the VAXX does is GMO your ass so that you produce the spike protein alone using your own cellular machinery. The spike protein alone is apparently more dangerous and is more easily SHED intact.
– COVID was the FRIGHT and the VAXX is the “safe haven” and both are LIES.

Some keywords for your research: Frank Plummer, Fort Detrick shutdown September 2019, Wuhan Military Games October 2019. At the beginning of the fear bombing, these search terms returned some important results, not sure now.

There have been a lot of fingers pointing at labs in China, and that may just be another false flag.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

I don’t mind at all, Mark. The more the discussion, the better.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Mark, I just want to mention, as far as using the needles from a pine tree (rather than, say, the fir, spruce) I think only the white pine can be used as a tea.

I’ve watched many survival and bushcraft videos showing that you can drink pine tea for Vitamin C and you can eat the soft inside wood of these trees for survival, just like you can do with Slippery Elm. All of these people live up north, in the mountains, in Canada or in the U.K. So I did some research.

In the south, we have yellow pines. I haven’t been able to find anything indicating the needles of yellow pines are safe for tea. These trees are/were used to make turpentine and pitch. If anyone can say whether they are safe or not, I’d sure love to know.

mark
mark

Thanks VV,

Didn’t want to come off as a thread hijacker.

I seem to be getting testy lately…but always respectful to my friends.

I have some Pine Needle Essential Oil…and have a 100 bags of the tea on order…just in case this has some validity.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Sounds like a good plan. I might follow your lead.

BUCKED/BUY MORE AMMO/BOURBON TOO
BUCKED/BUY MORE AMMO/BOURBON TOO

Southern pines are fine for tea . I’ve made a mug or two in the past. They have more vitamin C than an orange .

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Thanks for letting me know, Bucked.

ASIG
ASIG

Soon the interest in studying actual facts and applying common sense and logic will become an act of sedition. Oh that’s right truth is treason.

Stucky

During WWII in my mom’s village people were reduced to eating grass and boiling “bark tea” to survive. I don’t know what kind of grass(es) nor which kind of tree the bark came from … but, that’s what they did.

BUCKED/BUY MORE AMMO/BOURBON TOO
BUCKED/BUY MORE AMMO/BOURBON TOO

Sassafras tea maybe..if they have that type of tree there .

Ken31
Ken31

It is conceivable that a single animal cell has more computational power than every piece of silicon on the planet combined.

But billionaires with physiognomy problems are going to execute a perfect plan to enslave us all.

Austrian Peter

Brilliant VV – thanks so much for posting this – a great wake-up call for us ‘anti-maskers’. What they are saying is that we have got them on the run! Great stuff, gives me much confidence that we are on the right road and, dare I say, we are winning the battle for hearts and minds.

I trust that this supplements what is being said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/05/covid-19-rewired-our-brains/

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Thank you, Austrian Peter. I think we’ve got them on the run, too.

Freddy Uranus
Freddy Uranus

I had to go back up to look at the title to see if it was from Babylon Bee

RiNS

another money shot is that these university researcher are bemoaning the fact that there are groups outside the hive engaging in critical thinking that they should be teaching.

brian
brian

Yep… they hate that there are people out there that play in their sand boxes. Showing that they are not so elite as they think they are…

GMAN
GMAN

“However, the researchers framed their paper in such a way as to discredit or cast doubt on the skeptics’ conclusions, insisting government-backed views are “scientific orthodoxy.”

At one point , certain governments believed that the sun revolving around the earth was “scientific orthodoxy”. Look at what they did to Galileo for saying the opposite.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer

to abstain completely from teaching or defending this doctrine and opinion or from discussing it… to abandon completely… the opinion that the sun stands still at the center of the world and the earth moves, and henceforth not to hold, teach, or defend it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing.

— The Inquisition’s injunction against Galileo, 1616.

Sounds like what they do if you question the globe Earth theory.

The more things change…

RiNS

The Sun doesn’t stand still…

Stucky

Ohmygawd, Rinny, let’s not start that SHIT again!!

In Odin’s name, I pray.

RiNS

Give me props for at least starting it off with something both me and da farmer can agree on.

In Odin’s name, I pray!

hey

I like that.. kinda catchy!

Wonder if it has the gravity to catch on….

mark
mark

Well my friend RiNs it is ‘dense’ enough. (smile)

BL
BL

I for one am interested in the sun standing still, please to explain. 🙂 🙂

mark
mark

Elementary my dear Watson…

Joshua 10:13:

Berean Study Bible:
So the sun stood still and the moon stopped until the nation took vengeance upon its enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? “So the sun stopped.

The Day the Sun Stood Still:
12On the day that the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD in the presence of Israel: “O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.” 13So the sun stood still and the moon stopped until the nation took vengeance upon its enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? “So the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.” 14There has been no day like it before or since, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man, because the LORD fought for Israel.…

Berean Study Bible in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.”

Stucky

First of all, it seems Joshua is getting his info from something called the “Book of Jashar” … whatever the hell that is.

Second, unless you’re going Full Retard like “bug” below, the Earth revolves around the sun. So, it is the Earth that stopped spinning.

You’re taking this story literally? You don’t question at all how that’s possible?? (Of course, you can always fall back on the God-can-do-anything Jedi mind trick. But, that wouldn’t be fair.)

Ever drive at 70mph and slam on your brakes? Did you notice the law about bodies in motion tending to stay in motion … as your body is attempting to fly through the windshield?

The Earth spins faster than a car and I believe weighs quite a bit more. What affect might a sudden stop have? Ever think about that?

Well for one thing, the atmosphere would still be in motion … and rotating at 1,100 mph at the equator. All of the land masses would be scoured clean of anything not attached to bedrock …. rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings, sheep …. all swept away into the atmosphere. And that includes Joshua, the Israelites, and Amorites!

mark
mark

Stuck…Stuck…Stuck…I was just playfully teasing RiNS & BL…Cheeky tongue…tongue in cheek…

To quote a famous American:

“Can’t we all just along”?

Stucky

“I was just playfully teasing RiNS & BL…Cheeky tongue…tongue in cheek…”

Oh. So, the King Of Trolls himself got snookered, eh?

Ok, then. Carry on!!
.
.
I can’t tell you how RELIEVED I am that you didn’t go Full Retard on this!!

mark
mark

Stuck,

Ha!

Just saw this…sorry hard to keep up today…had to take my father in law to the VA and make sure a jab vulture didn’t talk him into an injection.

Just for the record…I have never said or implied you were ‘fully’ retarded.

I will defend your reputation to the death buddy!!!

bug

It is very simple. The bible appears to state that the Earth is in the center of the universe, and the Sun rotates around the Earth. So, according to this understanding, the church deemed it a heresy (contrary to scripture) to TEACH otherwise. Galileo violated this, and was disciplined by the church. This sparked the ongoing conflict between religion and science. Galileo actually had the ability and permission to do scientific research into the subject, but was not supposed to TEACH it as fact, without the church’s say so. He defied this ruling, and was sentenced to a relatively comfortable home confinement. Relatively comfortable, that is, in comparison to the black legends that he was tortured or executed, which never happened. Additionally, it should be noted that his “proofs” were nothing of the sort, and did nothing to indicate in any way that the Earth orbits the sun.

As a matter of current scientific fact, it still HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN that the Earth orbits the sun, or vice versa. Einstein is on record that depending upon one’s perspective, one may truthfully state the Sun orbits the Earth. This is allowed by his theory of relativity. More interesting still, there are many experiments that seem to indicate that the Earth does stand still, including the Michelson-Morley, Michelson-Gale experiments, as well as Airy’s “Failure.” It was a failure since it did not detect the movement of the sun.

Other fun experiments include three increasingly specific and sensitive efforts to map the Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation, which all show a clear “anomaly” that indicates the Earth is in the Center of the Universe. Other research demonstrates that the entire universe is somehow aligned with the Earth’s orientation (ecliptic, equator, etc.) Likewise, the redshift of the stars indicates that all the stars are moving away from the Earth as though the Earth is in the Center.

Currently, Geocentrists typically hold that the Earth is located at the center of mass of the entire universe. The Sun, though, is located at the center of the solar system, so while the sun orbits the Earth (along with the rest of the universe) the planets more directly orbit the Sun, and only tangentially orbit the Earth. This is called something like the neo-tychonic model.

Interestingly, all the math does work, and a geocentric universe actually simplifies things. Rocket launching is done by using geocentric assumptions, because it is simpler, and using geocentrism, one can eliminate such things as Dark Matter and Dark Energy. It is said that Einstein came up with the Theory of Relativity specifically to answer the Michelson-Morely experiment and get the Sun moving again.

Oh yeah. The church never taught the Earth was flat.

Commence down voting… 🙂

Stucky

“As a matter of current scientific fact, it still HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN that the Earth orbits the sun, or vice versa.”

How long ago did you escape from the mental hospital? Did they diagnose you as retarded or hopelessly retarded? Get the fuck outta here ya dumbass.

RiNS

come on bug whatcha got!

bug

LOL!

bug

This question is not only interesting from a cosmological perspective, but also an anthropological one as well.

These scientist who fight so hard to avoid even addressing the question are very intelligent men. They understand the implications of Geocentrism.

Even such as Stucky, in their own bestial way, when the light of intellect occasionally pierces the ever-present fog of brutish passion in which they live, also understand the implications:

If the Earth is in the center of the Universe, that did not happen by chance. Geocentrism, in the end, is undeniable proof that there is a God, and logic tells us that He demands something of us. So, scientist or brute, men are forced to humble themselves, lay aside their own selfish desires, and live according to a code outside of themselves. And they will fight to the end to prevent this fact from being thrust upon them.

‘Course Stucky might just fling poo because its his nature.

bug

Thanks Stucky,

We can always depend upon you to show class (/s) and ignorance.

I did not say I was a geocentrist, I was merely answering BL’s question.

Perhaps you can point out whatever non-moving point in the universe that would allow us to judge absolute motion, rather than relative motion. If so, you’d be doing something that Einstein, Planck, and Mach (and everybody else) have failed to do. I’m sure that’d get you that nobel (and the attention) you so desperately desire.

I’m no expert on the book of Joshua, but the fact that both the moon and the sun stopped, rather than the Earth, shows that the Earth did not stop spinning, since the Sun and Moon have different orbital paths, and at least one of them would have continued. Of course, if the Earth does not move (orbit or spin) that would explain why there was no momentum shift on the Earth as you have argued. Are you a closet geocentrist? Also, I have heard that the stopping of the Sun has been recorded in other ancient writings as a global thing, but I don’t know.

I’m willing to bet that if you got your nose out of your navel and looked around, you’d find that nothing I said is inaccurate. But I’m also willing to bet that you won’t, because it is easier to scream “Retaaard!!” than to address the substance of anyone’s comments.

Anyway, go on policing the comment section, if it makes you feel good. But if you put on your thinking cap, and screw your eyes up real tight, you might begin to wonder if Cosmology as a science is every bit as truthy as medical science, evolution, global warming, the MSM, history, and politics.

RiNS

sun is still moving to Andromeda… impact in 2 billion years. My buddy “m” might quibble and fact check me on that so I best put a proviso in there and say give or take a couple of years.

bug

yeah, either that, or Andromeda is moving to the sun…

Bottom line, it is hard to know.

Anonymous
Anonymous

It has no feet in the first place.

Tony
Tony

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but all I see here is circular logic that verifies the skeptics research before dismissing it. Ohhhh… it’s too dangerous because we can’t have people thinking for themselves. They should take a big dump or get off the pot!

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem

What we have here is “an ability to communicate” for the purpose of rational analysis.

Remo
Remo

There’s no such thing as “anti-maskers”.
There’s maskers and there’s normal people.

delow24
delow24

So they find that skeptics actually practice analysis similar to the scientific method and do the jobs of “experts” to find the actual true answers to questions about what is going on…..but they seem to prefer the narrative that is handed down with no facts, study or data supporting it? Are we truly living in a Clown World?

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Yes.

Leethal
Leethal

Don’t get this article. This could be applied also to the Fauciteeth bunch, too and the vaccinators.

Arizona
Arizona

THE LORD TOLD EVERYONE..GO to the feed store and BUY a tube of IVERMECTIN,spread a bead on a piece of toast and eat it,YOU”LL recover from their plague overnight..but no.. AMERICANS would much rather be dead then listen to the LORD warning them..HE LOVES everyone OR he wouldn’t waste his time on the dumbest country on earth…how many will be saved..not many..

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