The Stoicism of Cool Hand Luke

Submitted by Hardscrabble Farmer

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44 Comments
SeeBee
SeeBee
July 8, 2021 3:11 pm

Only Paul Newman could have told me to fck off and I’d have thanked him.

SeeBee
SeeBee
  SeeBee
July 8, 2021 3:16 pm

BTW, HSF…The Sausages are SUPREME!

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  SeeBee
July 8, 2021 6:23 pm

It’s the tumeric.

And happy pigs.

Dogbone
Dogbone
  hardscrabble farmer
July 9, 2021 12:11 am

Thanks for the reminder of an awfully good film. Time sure makes a difference.

Chipon1
Chipon1
July 8, 2021 3:36 pm

Good stuff

RiNS
RiNS
July 8, 2021 3:38 pm

What surprises me about stoicism is that has been so liberating.
Reflecting rather than projecting is much better for the soul.

Joe Blow
Joe Blow
  RiNS
July 8, 2021 3:59 pm

Agreed 110%.

On a another stoic note, I had some time ago read up a little bit on the Daily Stoic. Went a head and let them send out the daily emails. I didn’t look at them much but yesterdays looked interesting talking about what is normal since all the turmoil of the last year. Then came across them talking about getting back out there and creating whatever normal you wanted “vaccinated”.

Find another resource for your Seneca quotes…

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  Joe Blow
July 8, 2021 6:33 pm

Funny, I listened to the most recent one this morning and he made some comment about how racists could just go around killing minorities in the streets with no repercussions.

I wondered how he could be so ignorant of the truth or deceptive but then I remembered this-

“When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil, and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own – not of the same blood and birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me. No one can implicate me in ugliness. Nor can I feel angry at my relative, or hate him. We were born to work together like feet, hands and eyes, like the two rows of teeth, upper and lower. To obstruct each other is unnatural. To feel anger at someone, to turn your back on him: these are unnatural.”

― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Becoming a stoic requires work, every single day, in all you do, say and think. It is not easily attained- if it is something attainable at all, but like other healthy habits it begins to show its benefits after a time and then each day it reinforces itself. I wish I had stumbled onto it much earlier in life, but then I probably wouldn’t have been prepared for it.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  RiNS
July 8, 2021 6:22 pm

We live in a prison of our own making. Only we have the key to set ourselves free.

Something so simple do and yet so hard to comprehend.

I’m glad you have found it.

SeeBee
SeeBee
  hardscrabble farmer
July 8, 2021 6:30 pm

It’s all in the programming.

RiNS
RiNS
  hardscrabble farmer
July 8, 2021 6:54 pm

Thanks.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
July 8, 2021 4:04 pm

A great movie with some great actors, the likes of whom we will never see again.

SeeBee
SeeBee
July 8, 2021 4:11 pm

O/T but seems to me the youth might be leaving “the system” in droves judging by this subtle messaging. All (MS) media is opposite what is true.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9768393/Australian-TikTok-star-Caitlyn-Loane-19-ended-life-aged-just-19.html

Subliminal bs for the oxygen deprived to absorb.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  SeeBee
July 8, 2021 6:46 pm

comment image

Is that a face you can trust?

Asking for a friend.

SeeBee
SeeBee
  hardscrabble farmer
July 8, 2021 9:35 pm

Hell NO!
comment image

overthecliff
overthecliff
  SeeBee
July 8, 2021 5:29 pm

I guess that her life wasn’t as great as portrayed on tic toc.. A shame.

SeeBee
SeeBee
  overthecliff
July 8, 2021 9:40 pm

Social Media is the killer.

BL
BL
July 8, 2021 4:15 pm

Stoicism is my middle name. I am who I am.

Ghost
Ghost
  BL
July 8, 2021 6:55 pm

I just am.

BL
BL
  Ghost
July 8, 2021 7:30 pm

Ghost- Well at least we iz….err am. 🙂

Melty
Melty
July 8, 2021 6:02 pm

Saw it as a double feature with Bullitt back when I was about 10. What was weird was that it wasn’t shocking to me at that age. Growing up in the deep south, it was very realistic of the times back then. Reflecting on the presenter commenting that it is offensive these days makes be realize that I am a product of a bygone era. The bullshit that goes on these days would have never been tolerated back then in the that part of the world.

Daughter got me the DVD and watched it a year or so ago. I noticed it wasn’t very profound anymore as I have become more like the character at this age.

Stucky
Stucky
July 8, 2021 7:10 pm

Did Cool Hand Luke’s stoicism lead him to accept Jesus as his personal Lord and savior? That’s the only question that matters.

On a more serious note, why didn’t the Stoics win the day? Why didn’t their beliefs become the norm …. instead of so much religious pablum that did?

Anybody?

BL
BL
  Stucky
July 8, 2021 7:29 pm

Stucky- There is big money in the religious pablum, stoicism….not so much. Religion is a business, am I wrong?

Stucky
Stucky
  BL
July 8, 2021 9:51 pm

You’re definitively not wrong. Money making is always an issue, But, there must be more to it than that.

So, I did some quick research about Stoicism … well, I went to mostly one web site —> https://dailystoic.com/ for about an hour. So, here’s my takeaway …

1) The core principles involve laws of reason, virtue, wisdom, apathea, and a few other high-minded ideas that the greater masses of humanity don’t give a rat’s ass about.

2) Where’s the Magic?? The Sky Daddy who grants favors, rewards, punishment on enemies, and a friggen awesome life after you kick the bucket? THAT’S what the masses want. But, that’s what the Stoics don’t give.

3) Stoicism isn’t a religion. It’s a philosophy. Good luck getting the masses to buy into that!

4) Stoics teach that everything external is to be viewed with perfect indifference. But, do people really want to be like Spock? To a Stoic both pain and pleasure, poverty and riches, sickness and health … it’s all the same, or equally unimportant. This will never satisfy most people.

5) Nassim Nicholas Taleb summarizes Stoicism as acceptance, resignation and the control of emotions. That’s all well and good … really, truly … but does that inspire you with awe? But, that’s what all people clamor for, an AWEsome God, and Stoics can’t deliver that.

That’s all I got. Sadly, this is how I waste my time. If only I were a Stoic so I wouldn’t give a shit one way or another. lol

In closing, thanks for answering. I guess no one else really gives a damn about the question. Clearly, they are all Stoics.

BL
BL
  Stucky
July 9, 2021 3:01 am

Stucky- Reason number one that I am a stoic is that I understand the construct in which we live. You keep searching for answers in the amusement park, that’s the joke here. Seriously not being a critic but you asked.

Unlike Uber Eats and Amazon, stoics aren’t concerned with delivering anything, we comprehend what is truly awesome and ignore the prepackaged BS. This plane can be the most mind-boggling awesome experience or a kaleidoscope of stupid. Choose wisely.

Stucky
Stucky
  BL
July 9, 2021 11:02 am

“Reason number one that I am a stoic “

Oh, so now you’re a Stoic??? lmfao You forgot the /s. Nevertheless, if you are a Stoic, it’s weird that you couldn’t answer a simple question, “why didn’t the Stoics win the day?”. You’re about as much a Stoic as I am a Klingon.

================ =

“You keep searching for answers in the amusement park ..”

I have no idea what the fuck that means. And I don’t want to.

You say it’s not a criticism. I say bullshit. It sounds like an insult. But, that’s typical of your comments to me … back-handed passive-aggressive bullshit is your forte’.

Fuck off, already. (See? When I hurl an insult, it is clear as day.)

d-venabili
d-venabili
  Stucky
July 9, 2021 8:58 am

I guess no one else really gives a damn about the question.

That’s clearly wrong bc a Stoic isn’t involved in shit fests!
Stoicism as I understand it is a way of life. You inspect yourself, you reflect, you correspond with others accordingly.

In short: learn to know and then to tame your desires and abhorrences and accept that what is not in your personal power. The process of knowing yourself and the process of reflecting your position to the world will -in the best case- lead to equanimity, joy, compassion and kindness of a self-reliant person. There can be a place for Jesus too but not necessarily.
But nevertheless :Clearly, they are not all Stoics here lol

Hagar
Hagar
July 8, 2021 11:20 pm

Never complain, Never explain. Easy to say, not so easy to live.

Dogbone
Dogbone
  Hagar
July 9, 2021 12:09 am

This is the key I think. Well maybe.

TampaRed
TampaRed
July 9, 2021 12:13 am

trivia question–
what did luke do to go to the pen?the answer will shock you–

where did he commit his crime?

Machinist
Machinist
  TampaRed
July 9, 2021 2:29 am

Public drunkenness , cutting the heads off of parking meters. Florida.
Extra credit: Directed by Stuart Rosenberg.

TampaRed
TampaRed
  Machinist
July 9, 2021 11:54 pm

machinist,
you’re on the $,all coin since stealing a parking meter in downtown tampa is what got him his hardtime–

RiNS
RiNS
  TampaRed
July 9, 2021 7:16 am

He went to the pen because he wasn’t being a stoic.

i forget
i forget
July 9, 2021 1:04 pm

Well…it starts with a self-sabotaging symbolic act, & the trainwreck proceeds from there. “Symbolic”* & “self-sabotaging” may well more often be redundant than not.

CHL & Shawshank are both good flicks. I have the novel & the novella, too. But stoicism applies to the latter, while self-destructive masochism & empty martyrdom drives the former.

(And “Hope Springs Eternal” – Shawshank subtitle – is just as often misused, inaccurate, as “stoicism” is. Hope had nothing to do with it (except that it continues to sell like hotcakes & sex…hoopleheads ~ Deadwood)…it was more like conscientious stubbornness. But even so, conscientiousness & stubbornness are traits, are compulsions, too – not choices.)

CHL is yet another one who flew over the cuckoos nest (but Chief Bromden was stoic in that asylum iteration).

Luke “let” the disappointing world (of other people) get the better of him, & used it to suicide himself. Suicide by copworld. “That’s the way he wants it…well, he gets it.”

It ain’t fair? That world o’ people what Luke shook? No, it ain’t. But “deservin’s got nuthin’ to do with it,” as murderous, mean drunk, Clint-character – & “stoic” – said in Unforgiven.

Rebels without causes ain’t stoics. “Shaking the world” a la Luke ain’t a cause; it’s a symptom. Rebels without causes are looking to be outed, not for a way out to Zihuatanejo. Andy didn’t sneak a postcard back to still inside Shawshank Red. Gone, Baby, Gone was Stoic Andy (that Red, he do get around, can’t seem to stay outta’ jail tho) – while Luke just couldn’t leave it behind.

(is that Butch? Or Sundance?)

And…that guy that does “dailystoic” is a bad joke. Hypocrite. Conman. Saddling & rebranding a stolen horse. Defrauding the gullible. A bvackstabber.

And neither is, can be, rebel with an empire, or rebel teacher/mentor to emperors (Aurelius, Seneca) stoic. Shtaking the world Imperial Purple prison stripes dual – & more – standards ain’t stoic.

Cutting the head off a municipal parking meter (so the man with no eyes & all ayes can breachload, shoot away, your throat):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pcuBIXU1vQ

The prerogatives are the prerogatives – for everybody, every single person…but there ain’t enough cutting tools in the world to cut off the sucking heads of all the swarming parking meters, other municipal props, that want by bio-design to suckannibalize the prerogatives to extinction.

Actions speak. Words that don’t align with actions are lies.

Love the underdog, sure. I sometimes do.

But codependence, & enabling, ain’t love.

The roadgang was in “love” with ol’ Luke (who basked in that “”)…until it wasn’t (&/or until ol’ Luke got tired of her, that bitchbotchbatch)…until it was again (& he was sainted martyr dead, so couldn’t disappoint the vicarious gang of antihero worshippers back to not “loving” him again).

((Tho the white collar criminal, the check kiter, may have had Luke in perspective.))

See also The Hustler & The Color of Money. Luke type former & Andy Dufresne type latter. But Luke had no Andy in him & Andy had no Luke in him. So the progression/sequel could only mean one thing: “Andy” was in there all along, the hustler just hadn’t gotten that far in the book of him, yet, wasn’t ready to sing the hymnal fantastic.

Taking credit for what’s embodied (or discrediting, denying, what is embodied), calling it “philosophy”…well, you might as well call Newman’s, or your own, blue eyes philosophy, too.

Everybody gets what they get.

That includes all the usual suspects swallowing the dirtiest trick the Prussians(cum that was floated up by the Prussianstagnant) ever pulled, that stoicism etcetcetc can be learned outside in – educational egalitarianism – and before that, all the “free will” pushermen.

“Because what you have to be, before you try to be a pole-vaulter…Hello! Is a pole-vaulter, no?” (George Kennedy – his Line Dragged, unrecognizable, in a hospital bed – had his last role in this flick, The Gambler, btw.)

Popeye wuz what he wuz, same as every other person yam what they yam. All the rest, the noise, is “goddamn the pusherman” & all the addicts in that “love” orgy of symbiotic dysbiosis.

*Rappoport did a 2-parter on poetry this week. Some poets know it, and feel it. Many others just feel it, do it; stim-response. “Feelin’ good is good enough for me & Bobby McGee.” Am reading one by Rick Bass (The Book of Yaak). He was a geologist, before he turned off the science route to take the scenic route. Well…words are mostly a trick. Some poetsmiths trick the words…which Aikido shall forever remain Greek to Prussians, & Steven Segal, & Jonathan Livingston Seagull Breakfast Flock Clubs. (Richard Bach wrote Seagull. Stephen King wrote Shawshank as himself, & some others as Richard Bachman.)

maybe not a poet, but definitely stoical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kl0UBS4ZaM
can an ass be a poet? is kinesthetic sense poetry? or maybe that slang (for poetry?), “piece of ass,” elicits poetry (in motion)?

rust cohle, stoic poet what know it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xICJKQvY0N0

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  i forget
July 9, 2021 9:38 pm

Always enjoy these comments even if I can’t follow them. Just like True Detective; wonderful exposition, sincere delivery, but in the end it just seems hopeless, pointless, and completely nihilistic.

Maybe it’s me.

Rusty was wrong about one thing- assuming he really believed in evolution- and that was that our existence, our consciousness, our very purpose is a mistake. If we’re here, thinking, feeling, communing with one another about the mysteries of the Universe, or God, then it can only be inevitable, our destiny, the very opposite of a mistake. I really enjoyed the dialogue and the acting in TD, but the story was completely hacky. Redneck ritual serial killers on riding lawnmowers keeping detectives chasing their tails for decades. I think Rusty was out of his depth, both as a detective and as a philosopher. Reminds me of the daily stoic guy the other day talking about blacks being gunned down in the streets every day by racists while the police look the other way. Is he stupid or is he a liar? Or more likely- as you pointed out- just another carny selling merch.

Anyway, much to reflect on in your words even if I don’t ever fully grok your style. I’ve tried multiple times to get through Pynchon with the same feeling of bewilderment wondering why, if someone has something to say, go to all the trouble of making it a labyrinth with no exit?

i forget
i forget
  hardscrabble farmer
July 10, 2021 5:29 pm

HSF… The Rust Cohle montage hangs off the end of the post like punctuation…or punctuated-ness. (Not that I don’t empathize with the character & his analyses. His misses are still closer than the comfort of congregation can bear to allow. And Jermiah Johnson was that kind ♪♫♪) The equilibrium that got punched – Luke’s stoicism (“stoicism”) – down into the little fossil record curio shop of horrors, because displaced by Andy’s true stoicism, is the Cambrian content of my intent.

Wonder what you’d respond with if I hadn’t finished with Cohle. The same? “Hope’less’, pointless, completely nihilistic”? Because those are the general elicitations of my comments, you feel? (The senasations lead the dictionary, contrary those who believe people “think in words.”)

In younger years hope (that the stories & characterizations were true…which was more like faith, actually, a more virulent form of hope, antibody-co/dependent enhancement, original antigenic sin apples plopping out the back of Trojan Horses, etc), jabbed in pointilisms (painted true pictures of human reality & not the truer pictures of Tom Sawyer types whitewashed whitewasher “light” brigades singing “don’t fence me in,” ironically), & “socially” prescribed & sanctioned denials were impossible to see through, all the way through, & so anti-heroes like Luke, or RP McMurphy, or Kowalski in his stolen, & ultimately destroyed Challenger (white, the color of the good guys, & supercharged) martyr-suicide vehicle, were the heroes…because I *thought* I saw through the hype, jabs, & denial quite clearly. So it was, had to be, antiheroes vs proheroes. So it was I was antihero.

“Hope’less’, pointless, & completely nihilistic” describes the CHL story*. All of it. Including Luke himself.

And those words describe all the Shawshank story, too – except for Andy.

Andy, the stoic, painting his porch fantastic. And maybe also that rarest, perhaps only mythical – another supercharged white vehicle – type, a competent man (like a Heinlein character). Something beyond a renaissance man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competent_man

So, do you understand if I say that “hope’less’, pointless, & completely nihilistic” is on the nose within the confines of the stories given to confine? There, & only within there. Pandora’s Box.

Hope supposedly didn’t escape the box (jar). But it obviously did. So the box got bigger; hope escaped into a bigger box. Hope became the box. Because hope, like Brooks in Shawshank, was already institutionalized (whether by the box it had been stuffed into by the gods, or by conception). Internalization, & projection; the medium has only got itself to message. Prisoners of “our own” device…you can check out, but you can never leave.” “Any man loses his silver spoon spends a night in the box” – cuz that’s just the boxman’s job, despite flip-flopping Nuremberg showtrials.

And does it make any sense to you that, like Oakland, according to Gertrude Stein, there is no there there? (Not to be taken completely literally, of course. “Hope’less’, pointless, & completely nihilistic” is there, & those are somethings, too, not nothings. Something wicked “evil” {banal} this way comes…never stops coming.)

*Antiheroes vs proheroes is that story.

So…clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle with you?

Or Zihuatanejo with me, myself, & I, handsanding a beat up hull, & possibly a few other Red headed stepchildren that might show up?

Even if Z isn’t – because in today’s more consolidated world than ever before – can’t be, a flag-planted, once & for all, over & done, place, & so must be a moveable Z-feast?

To be inside the Zeitpoltergeist (“they’re heeeeeere…”& so am “I”ndividual bit of the weus collective), or outside it, that is the question…that rhetoric has nothing to do with, let alone with answering.

That question was answered at conception.

Everybody gets what they get.

Everybody’s got, from the get.

Evolution ain’t about directional progress. Evolution is musical chairs & eternal recurrence spinning on that flat disc under that pointy needle that scratches out the music of chance, & the blood, & the sweat, & the tears.

“Outside” gets projected, put “there,” too. Of course. Andy split to Z. Nietzsche went to Switzerland. There’s articles in here from a guy that sails. The farm needs be on wheels, or under keels, cuz agrarian sufficiency stuck atop Masada is but a morsel for industrial machine to swallow, lube itself with. Cue that final scene in Apocalypto.

Gonna’ suggest a book I’m in now, cuz I think you might collect symmetry-rhyme rewards from it. The Menace of the Herd, or Procrustes at Large, by Kuehnelt-Leddihn.

As for “why, if someone has something to say, go to all the trouble of making it a labyrinth with no exit?”

Have begun a rewatch of The Game of Thrones. Several references have been made to “the common” tongue, language, vernacular, etc.

In the Seven Kingdoms, as in Oakland, writing is mostly for the reader out there. The audience, the target, is mostly external.

In Oakland the tailor fashions the emperor’s robes. & his own straightjacket simultaneously.

In Oakland the comic sizes up funnybones for prostheses to sell. $ atrophies his own skeleton simultaneously.

But on the king’s road – no phone, no pool, no pets, don’t want no cigarettes – and maybe more commonly “North of the wall, too, “writers” are just reading themselves. Reading the writing on their own walls, not filling in billboards…with stuff memorized off other billboards.

I don’t think there’s any such thing as authoring one’s own life. I think one reads one’s own life (within the confines of conceived comprehension). I think a lot of people are so well trained to read, memorize, & regurgitate billboards that they are functionally illiterate when it comes to reading the good, important, real, true stuff. But that may just be me, being too optimistic, or crypto-egalitarian.

If you saw GOT, you know it ends like it began. A no-exit labyrinth for sure. Art, imitating tragedy of the commons life.

Just a bit of the range in “Menace”:

“The second half of the 19th century sees an acceleration in the process of democratization, nationalization, centralization, & uniformization in all regions of Europe. The demand for a general ochlocratic franchise comes to the fore as the synthesis of Luther’s superstitious belief in the perspicacity & intelligence of the avegeage man (reading his Bible) & Rousseau’s assertion that man is by nature good. It was impossible to resist the demands for political control on the part of the masses, who consisted admittedly of virtuous masterminds.

The Risorgimento in the political sense was probably a boon to Italy, but from a cultural point of view it was fatal because it extinguished the many little suns which, in preceding centuries, had given ti Italy her great variety of cultural expressions so essential to the grandeur of the Italian past. Something similar also happened in the Germanies, but this process in the other half of the former Holy Roman Empire will be treated separately.

Uniformism had created the demand that all people with an identical or similar literary language should draw together in common political units.****116 Yet literary languages are usually artificial creations, coined by certain masters at a given moment in history & accepted by the upper classes. The English-speaking reader should bear in mind that the literary languages of the European continent are not of aristocratic or royal mark. “The King’s English” has no equivalent either in the Germanic countries nor in the Mediterranean area. It usually is the upper bourgeoisie who speaks the literary, i.e., the artificially standardized language, with the greatest perfection, while there is often a “low class” dialectical strain in the idiom of the nobility & even royalty. The Empress Theresa spoke broadest Viennese, & this local dialect continued to be used by the Emperors of Austria until 1848. (The Emperor Francis Joseph who ascended the throne 11 years after Queen Victoria & died 15 years later than the British ruler was, like her, aristocratic in character but bourgeoisie in his tastes. The rule of these two monarchs saw the spectacular rise of the bourgeoisie.) The late King of Saxony repeatedly used the Saxonian dialect, & argot expressions are far more widespread in aristocratic circles around Paris & Budapest than in the haute bourgeoisie, which always prided itself on a strongly standardized language, which is nothing else but an intranational Esperanto (understood & spoken everywhere inside the nation).

((All leftists {with the paradoxical exception of the Spanish leftists} had always a teeth-gnashing hatred for dialectical differences because these disturbed the herdist uniformity to which they were all intrinsically devoted. Evelyn M. Acomb writes in her scholarly work “The French Laic Laws (1879-1889)”: They (the anticlericals) held that differences in religion would only divide citizens, who should be imbued with the sense of “union, concord, & fraternity which ought to exist between the children of the mere-patrie.” Thet attacked the religious orders for not obeying the laws, for trying to elude military service, & for encouraging local dialects. It is universally agreed in all the reports of academy inspectors that wherever a language other than French is spoken, whether it is a true language like the Breton or a simple patois, in all these districts, the religious orders, supported by the clergy, who insist that the catechism should be learned in patois, exert all their efforts to prevent the French language from being used.))

Artificial languages are far more collective – they comprise more people – than local dialects. But the artificial language often lacks character & originality. It is the urban, commercial spirit of the middle classes which demands uniformity for business purposes & has already killed many a truly living language in order to supplant it by an international (or rather intertribal) jargon. Hebrew was displaced about 300 years before the birth of our Lord by the Aramaic slang of Syrian traders, spoken between Alexandria & Babylon.

The 19th or 20th century nationalist of either the “democratic” or socialist pattern would have hardly consented to the exhortation of St. Stephen, King of Hungary, who said to his sons: “A country of only one language & one custom is foolish & fragile.” It is the urban middle class which became the protagonist for the national state with one language, one law, one independent church & left its deadly centralism all over the Old World between Calais & Vladivostok.

This is the reason why the middle class revolutions of 1848 in Berlin, Italy, Vienna, Baden, Prague, Munich, & Pesth had not only an ochlocratic but also a strongly nationalistic character. Pan-Italism, Pan-Germanism & the weirdest growth of all, Pan-Slavism, revolted against the supranational monarchy. The endless, monotonous plains of eastern Europe had accepted with almost Asiatic fervor the gospel of a gigantic unification preached for the first time by Jan Kollar, a Lutheran Slovak minister in Magyar-German Pesth. Pan-Slavism differed from the two other isms inasmuch as it wanted to unite not one nation, but a whole family of nations, who show as many differences as the Icelanders from the Tyroleans or the English from the East Prussians. Pan-Latinism or Pan-Teutonism have not yet made their appearance on the political stage, & they probably never will. Yet what the disciples of these Panisms wanted was a vastly simplified Europe, consisting of 3 or 4 states, all uniform, all “democratically” goverened, a bad imitation of the American Middle West, with about 150 million “customers” each, run by lawyers, journalists, businessmen, & teachers of gymnastics.

Gymnastic teachers were not unimportant; the gymnastic leagues of central & eastern Europe wielded great political power. Supported by the bourgeoisie (& even the lower classes) they were the main carriers of Pan-Slavism & Pan-Germanism. Their performances in mass drill, their semimilitary maneuvers, their worship of health, discipline, & co-ordination, & finally their anticlericalism of varying degree, made them heralds as well as executors of a mass age. ((Later we see “Counter Leagues,” i.e., Catholic as well as Socialist Gymnastic Leagues. The Socialists did finally everything in their power to make good use of the collectivizing effects of sports & gymnastics – inside & outside of Russia. In all these Leagues the emphasis was always put on the subordination of the individual under the whole. Their influence & importance can never be overrated & it is surprising that no serious treatise has been written about them.)) The Sokol (“Falcon”) & Orel (“Eagle”) organizations among the Slavs, the numerous gymnastic leagues among the Teutons – mainly the Austrian, Moravian, & Bohemian Germans – are typical for these various movements with parallel goals. Neverteless their purpose was not primarily a military one. Their main objective was rather of a psychological nature. The spectacular collective displays organized on a scale only surpassed by the parades of the National Socialists in Nuremberg, served the feeling of collective might & a “belonging together.” The numerous men’s glee clubs, so widespread among German & Slav nationalists, had a similar purpose. Community singing was also one of the strongest magnetic features of the Lutheran Reformation. It is not surprising that these gymnastic leagues featuring a definite Weltanschauung had a deep political influence mainly on the lower middle class. Thet started out featuring certain liberal tendencies. This liberalism is still apparent in the writing of the Turnvater Jahn, the founder of the German Gymnastic Leagues. In the 30’s of this century their Austrian groups (Deutscher Turnverein, featuring an emblem remarkably like the Swastika) became violently national socialistic & dropped the liberal ideas. It is no exaggeration to say that while the Slav gymnastic leagues (the “Sokols”)* were partly responsible for the breaking up of the Austro-Hungarian Maonarchy, the Deutscher Turnverein (German Gymnastic League) had a lions share of the annexation of Austria.

*(The Czechoslovak Republic, Yugoslavia & even Poland showed great recognition for the work of the Sokols after their establishment as independent states. Czechoslovakia featured the founder of the Sokols on their stamps & the Sokol-slet’s (Falconflights: mass meetings & mass performances) were always memorable events. Yugoslavia celebrated the great slets with a special issue of her stamps. The Czechs also unofficially called some of their banknotes “Sokols.” The founder of the Sokols, Miroslav Tyrs, was, needless to say, a great admirer of Taine, a violent evolutionist & an enthusiastic monist preaching an odd political biologism, spiced with a romantic anticlericalism & anti-Habsburgism. His vistas were largely “Nazi” which did not prevent the invading Nazi hordes from suppressing the Sokols.”

Good stuff, even if Leddihn places causes in traditional externalities, and even if he, like HH Hoppe & others, paraphrasing Churchill, believes Monarchy+Catholicism the bestworst relative all the “other” forms. Published 1943. I got my copy from mises org.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  i forget
July 10, 2021 8:18 pm

That was a really great response, I really enjoyed reading that. Reminds me very much of Spengler in both depth and range of vocabulary ( I had to look up two words I have never seen in print before).

Have you ever read Imperium by FP Yockey? I wouldn’t be surprised if you have, but if you missed it due to the purge- very hard to find- it’s right up your alley.

The more I read your exposition the more I see of Shakespeare, clearly you are a fan or at least familiar with his linguistic mastery that so many confuse for poetry when all he was doing was writing his own language- often literally- that served as the real bedrock of English for the next three hundred years. Now, not so much.

You turned me around on CHL as well, definitely not the stoic as much as a masochist/sadist-in that order. Injure me so that I can wound you kind of behavior. I am sticking with Andy though, he took what life presented and endured in order to emerge victorious despite it all. The final image of a man sanding the paint from an old boat with the same grim determination that he had employed to dig through the wall, free/caged, same/same because it is not the world outside that polishes him to a luster, but the one within.

It would sure be interesting to have you show up like Red on my beach/hilltop some fine day.

I hope. I hope…

i forget
i forget
  hardscrabble farmer
July 12, 2021 4:00 pm

Owen Benjamin, interviewed by Blonde (In the Belly of the Beast). I’d never heard of OB before seeing this. You probably know of him. Some similarities in the trajectory of his story & yours, maybe. Seems like a good man.

And an imperfect example, toward the “perfection”-direction, to my eyes, of stepping outside pro/antihero – “let’s you & him fight” – & so away from hope/less ring rope snares, too. Good & evil & beyond.

Or, what do some of the stoics, the real ones, not the compromised ones, not the poseurs trying to haveat the cake, say about “hope”? Or, what *must* such as those say about hope? Stoichope…hmmm…Stoichopper:

Fabienne: Whose motorcycle is this?
Butch: It’s a chopper, baby.
Fabienne: Whose chopper is this?
Butch: It’s Zed’s.
Fabienne: Who’s Zed?
Butch: Zed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.

((I wouldn’t want to work in/for HollywoodrowWilson either, makin’ the world safe for lowest common denominator ochlocracy & all that loss leader bait/switch pusherman stuff it does…but maybe that’s not all it puts out, & maybe there’s no necessary preclusion of pivoting that stuff, leveraging its weight, to my own purposes. The pickings are getting noticeably slimmer, tho.))

Or what would the Buddhists say about Velcro hope. Velcrope? A. Dope?

Ali knew Foreman’s massive strength begat an offsetting massive weakness, too, & Ali leveraged that father’s son. Velcro Magnon met the stoicanthropus Butterfly-Bee (Haeckel, the infamous Prussian-born forger of mindseye•de•o•logical embryological drawings*, “filled the gap,” but neglected to jump it…tho he wasn’t all hype-la), “on the ropes.”

((*”The revised 1870 second edition of 1,500 copies attracted more attention, being quickly followed by further revised editions with larger print runs as the book became a prominent part of the optimistic, nationalist, anticlerical “culture of progress” in Otto von Bismarck’s new German Empire.” ~ wikiP))

Or what, “maybe,” would that Taoist farmer say about hope?

Faith, hope, charity…Thomas Aquinas’ motives could have been pure, but his surname whispers “acquiescence”, too, doesn’t it? Or, at least, faith & hope whisper it.

And if you respell “charity” this way, “subsidy,” it’s like Jethro Tull puts it in Thick As A Brick: My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout.

Some whispers are TBTF, some shouts are too Borg to succeed.

Tuborg Gold was a decent brew, back in the day. But et tu Borg gold is iron pyrite Midas Touch. Or as I read Pat Conroy put it, in The Prince of Tides, The Sadim Touch (every money-making scheme the protagonist’s father tried failed…).

And even these pirates that play chess & the other long games of thrones have time preferences that will see them high-swinging from yardarms.

“Sometimes nuthin’ is a real cool hand.”

But many other times, if the curve fits, you will hang yourself with it. Hubrisman’s knot is the Gordion Knot that begets what “let them eat cake” begat – even if that sliced phrase only occurred to someone after the fact.

Institution’s projection: “Look on my works, ye mighty, & despair!”

Institution’s destination: “I’ve fallen, & I can’t get up!”

Institution’s epitaph: “Brooks was here.”

“Outsiders…” The one Colin Wilson wrote when he was wunderkind enfant terrible is worthwhile.

These men are in prison: that is the Outsider’s verdict. They are quite contented in prison—caged animals who have never known freedom; but it is prison all the same. And the Outsider? He is in prison too: nearly every Outsider in this book has told us so in a different language; but he knows it. His desire is to escape. But a prison-break is not an easy matter; you must know all about your prison, otherwise you might spend years in tunnelling, like the Abbe in The Count of Monte Cristo, and only find yourself in the next cell. ― Colin Wilson, The Outsider

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/3310176-the-outsider

Same thing said a different way & with the important added aspect The Eagles sing about (& are still singing about)…but, beware, “the science” would like to throw the Poet baby out with the Ionized bathwater:

“Socrates urges men not to let what is out of their control to affect their action. They should separate out their hopes & fears from their understanding & manfully follow the prescriptions of what true knowledge they possess. They must not let their passionate aspirations corrupt that knowledge. But such a solution is not satisfactory to most men; they must see the world in such a way that their personal ambitions have a cosmic status. The fate of an individual man is no more significant to the knower of man than is the fate of a particular leaf to the botanist. The way of the knower is unacceptable for the life of men & cities. They must see a world governed by providence & the gods, a world in which art & science are inexplicable, a world which confuses general & particular, nature & chance. This is the world of poetry to which man clings to intensely, for it consoles & flatters him. As long as human wishes for the significance of particular existences dominate, it remains impossible to discover nature, the intelligible & permanent order, for nature cannot satisfy those wishes. Ion cannot imagine an art of the whole because, as rhapsode, he most of all serves the longing for individual immortality, & he uses his poetry to that end. The effect of this longing for immortality on the soul is illuminated by Socrates’ comparison of the enthusiastic diviners & rhapsodes with the Bacchic or Corybantic dancers. The fear of death, the most profound kind of fear & the most powerful of passions, moves them until they are out of their minds, & they can be healed only in the fanatic religious practice. In the Ion, Socrates points to the most important source of religious fanaticism & suggests that the function of that kind of poetry which is taken most seriously is to heal this fear & console man in his awareness of his threatened existence. This poetry irrationally soothes the madness in all of us. It is a useful remedy but a dangerous one. Fanaticism is often the result. The man who most believes the poet’s stories is likely to be most intolerant of those who do not. Socrates, the philosopher who tests the stories as well as those who tell them, is a menace to the sense of security provided by them. It is precisely overcoming this concern with oneself, in all its subtle & pervasive forms, that is *the* precondition of philosophy & a rational account of one’s own life. Poetry, as Ion administers it to suffering man, gives a spurious sense of knowledge while really serving & watering the passions hostile to true knowledge. While a philosopher is truly a citizen of the world, in that his pursuit is essentially independent of the opinions or consent of any group of men, the political man needs a country & a people to serve. Ion has no satisfactions which are not dependent on the approval of his spectators. He needs the city as they need him. For political men the accident of where they are born is decisive in limiting their possibilities of fulfillment. The philosopher, of course, begins, as do all men, in the cave; & he pays the strictest attention not only to particular or individual things but to their shadows. But the difference between him & other men is that he learns that they are only shadows – shadows which give us access to the truth – whereas they believe the shadows are the real things & are passionately committed to that belief. That is what cave-dwelling means. The cave must always remain cave, so the philosopher is the enemy of the prisoners since he cannot take the non-philosophers’ most cherished beliefs seriously. Similarly, Socrates does care for other men; but only to the extent that they, too, are capable of philosophy, which only a few are. Only they are capable of true virtue. To the extent that the philosopher turns some men to the light, he robs the cave-dwellers of allies. It is not because he lives in the sun, out of the cave, that I say that the philosopher is at tension with the city; his problem is due precisely to the fact that he is in it, but in a way different from that of other men.” ~ scribbled in a pre-internet notebook & with no attribution, but I may have taken it from Giants & Dwarfs, by Allan Bloom

That Dannemora story. A bad duo. One was Luke, one wasn’t Andy. The usual suspect & the drunk milkshake.

Andy was determined for sure. That’s the determinist way his dice fell. But really, most of the time, he did not seem “grimly” determined, did he? He seemed like a craftsman. Focused. Conscientious/tubborn. Detail oriented. “Lost” in process.

I hadn’t heard of Yockey. Or forgot his name, if I did. Wikiforwhatitsworth indicates Yockey “subscribed to Spengler’s suggestion that Germany had been destined to fulfil the ‘Roman’ role in Western Civilization by uniting all its constituent states into one large empire.”

Traumatized by Romanslavers reading Epictetus, some Germans “decided” to convert those slings & arrows into Israeli nutrition. Meet the new trition, same as the old. What goes comes. Stim-response, action-reaction, flat disc spinning.

Bye bye sorta’ organic federalism “over there” 1866, Austro-Prussian War, standing muzzleloaders vs prone needle-gunners, one Bismarcks the spot after Lincoln & gang “finally” pulled that miss American pie bye-bye off “over here.”

This one world wet dream has always soiled the sheets & stained the mattresses, & is what Kuehnelt-Leddihn describes the Austro-Hungarian-supranational monarchism/Catholicism empire as being bulwark (plastic mattress bag?) against, but a bulwark that those Protestant consolidationist bulls worked thru like it was a china shop, or a Chinese opium den full of prostratents.

Bigger ain’t better, but bettors, & especially degenerate “bettors” positioned to frontrun the inside & front the central bank hot fiat line, are addicted to bigger; junkies, making the world in their own image.

“Jeffersonian” agrarianism is right, size & direction-wise, but stands little chance against industrialism & financialization hunkered down behind high color of law ~ magic word ~ walls…nor, possibly, the ravening hordes coming to larders near you as those walls come tumbling down, again.

“Liberalism” is one of those “the first one’s free, kid” loss leaders, & after that, once the hook is set, the velvet gloves come off.

Corp•rupted, the original & still the worst, so far, transhuman “persons,” is congenitally attracted to bigger/”power” despite Babel Towers don’t grow to the Skynet.

So…what do you like about Yockey, if you do? Seems like it would have to be subtext, betwixt text, or look here for one example of con-text. Oakland connection, too: feebs caged him there that is nowhere (airline suitcase error – including his own packing errors – tripped him up). Maybe he gets some diagnoses, but blows the prescriptions? Could Strother Martin have played him? (Is there anybody ol’ SM couldn’t play?)☻

Luke’s rebuke, but Mattie’s mook:

Shakin’ it boss, to can I move it boss? I’ve met a lot of the same persons over & over again in this one life, & karmic camera puts pictures & sounds to the flat disc notion:

I might be less interesting in person. But my travel companion’s a redhead, the better half in person interestingness, & vaguely hails from your part of the world, so, who knows? Thanks for the invite compliment.

bigfoot
bigfoot
July 16, 2021 4:50 am

The key to Luke and the story lies in what he said about himself to God: “I started out pretty strong and fast. But it’s starting to get to me.”

What does that tell you about him? Stoic? No. What he loved was defiance, that he had the grit and will to go against authority and physical limits which not only buoyed him but thrilled him, not only in his own eyes but also in the eyes of his fellows who thought themselves in the company of greatness. A boon for Luke was he knew that his enemies broke themselves, felt less of themselves, for having to resort to killing him to stop his relentless beat down of them.

Luke stood in the rain and challenged God at the time when he was about out of gas and the thrill of it all was waning and the way out was death and only death, because all that had come before was too much for him to keep on repeating for diminishing rewards and he had nothing else, not even something from his mother.

Aristotle said that virtue was for the few, that it had to be learned. Parents who are virtuous model virtue for the child otherwise virtue is a dead letter for most of humanity. Virtue is a habit. You do the right thing every time without thought or argument. This is not to be confused with stoicism. A stoic is imperturbable, detached, impassive. Nor was Luke virtuous. He was a joker, engaged, and passionate, always ready for the next challenge that he could meet to show that what he was made of was special and he gloried in it until it did not matter anymore and he greeted defeat with the stoicism of a man with nothing left to do but submit to the inevitable.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  bigfoot
July 16, 2021 8:19 am

While I have come around on the Luke issue- he performed stoic feats without the virtue- I decline on the definition of the system. One is not a stoic but rather embodies the principles of one on a journey towards an ideal. We try to be virtuous parents, but if you have ever practiced the art? of parenting you know that it is not something you do “every time without thought or argument”. Or perhaps you can but we are not up to it despite our best efforts.

The goal of stoicism for me is to improve not only my own life, but those around me. To be calm when others require it, to stand up when they cannot, etc. I am a better man for it, not necessarily a more detached and impassive one, but rather more involved in helping others whenever possible to if not avoid, then t least to consider alternatives to the prevailing ethos of a very trying time. And to accept whatever outcome without complaint. It features a low investment, high return for the economists in the room.

bigfoot
bigfoot
  hardscrabble farmer
July 16, 2021 1:22 pm

Virtue is akin to love. To love a child one does for the child without concern for oneself in the moment. What is best for the child, an ice cream cone and Disney Land ride, or perhaps a daily walk along some railroad tracks or up a hill in a park? To love your children is to have the “rightness” in you to treat them differently according to what each of them needs from you, even when they say “unfair.”

Virtue is choiceless as is love. If it is not choiceless there is internal argument where doing for the child may be “inconvenient” as in one would rather be golfing or enjoying a book and a beer on the deck. And yet balance must be shown to the child so that he understands that the world does not revolve around him and that much is required of him if he is grow “pretty strong and fast.” There is, as you say, not much room for complaining, which is a high achievement in itself. Each of us has karmic debt that must be paid.

i forget
i forget
  bigfoot
July 16, 2021 2:17 pm

Well, that line applies to me, too. Started out very strong, & extremely fast. Confidence in abundance. That line applies pervasively, to stoical personalities & to un-stoical personalities alike.

But if it never starts to get to you, that may be denial, of which there is many stripes, or maybe sociopathy/psychopathy, but not necessarily stoicism per se.

“Personality” is key word. And the rebranding of personalities into “philosophies” is a key endeavor of soma-oil salesman.

And where would those pushermen be without the cultish followers of “philosophies”?

And where would the followers be without the Bernays sauciers?

Horatio Alger needs Flowers for Algernon, & vice versa. But, over & over again, variations of Harrison Bergeron is the result. Sometimes, this, & its works, gets to me.

Galileo thought, correctly, ipso facto obviously correctly, that you can’t teach a wo/man anything. That you can only help them ~ maybe ~ to find what you would have them learn, what you would “teach” them, in themselves. If the student does find what you would have them find that means, can only mean, that it was already there to be found.

“Modeling” begets anthropomorphic global warming. That will be enough said, if “it’s already there.” And only if it’s already there.

Submit or not, the inevitable is irrelevant. I think that qualifies as a stoical perspective.

And I think “the goal” of a personality is to be itself.

Personalities selling themselves, or rustlers like dailystoic guy rebranding and selling a personality product, are other personality features. But those features call into question, at the very least, the authenticity of the personalities cum philosophies of the pitchwo/men.

“…things get taken…” Attrition. That’s life. Accumulation of understanding might be life, too – inevitable is irrelevant, for example – for a relative few…who already knew…who already were pole-vaulters (that scene from The Gambler).

Gymnasia, organized sport, collectivism the drosstack with a golden needle or two buried in it:

i forget
i forget
July 18, 2021 2:15 pm

PLEASE ROCK HAMMER DON’T HURT ‘EM
I must admit, I didn’t think much of Andy Dufresne the first time I laid eyes on him. Looked like a stiff breeze would blow him over. That was my first impression of the man. Andy kept pretty much to himself at first. Wasn’t until a month went by before he opened his mouth to say more than two words to somebody. As it turned out, that somebody was me.

He asked if I could get him a rock hammer. So I strangled him to death. Crushed his throat with my bare hands before the guards could stop me. See, rock hammers are racist, so I felt threatened. Does that make me rehabilitated? I believe it does.

The Shawshank Redemption
(Critical race theory reboot)

As a good leftist, surely Stephen King will be more than willing to cancel himself in the name of CRT. After all, the marginally talented millionaire word-vomiter had the gall to write positively about rock hammers. And rock hammers are racist…apparently.

According to a paper published last week in the “science” journal Nature Communications, black Americans aren’t joining the exciting field of geology because they’re afraid to hold a hammer.

No, really. That’s the actual thesis of the paper. If not for hammerphobia, the field of geology would be crawling with dudes named LaMarquobsidian De’Quartzite.

As the geosciences strive to be more accessible, the community must recognize that BIPOC and other marginalized geoscientists are not always safe in geoscience spaces. For example, holding objects (e.g., a rock hammer) has been viewed as “suspicious” and, continues to be, used as a reason to call the police on Black people, which can lead to the death of Black individuals, entirely because of racial profiling and an unjustified fear of Black people.

Yes, blacks don’t become geologists because they’re afraid that if they lift a rock hammer, a cop will shoot them. The authors of the paper (and there are nineteen of them…yes, it took nineteen morons to come up with the “skeered o’ hammers” thesis) fail to explain why, if this fear extends to all “BIPOCs,” hammerphobia doesn’t seem to have affected the labor market in Southern California when it comes to Mexicans pounding away all day long on construction projects.

Perhaps Mexicans have yet to learn a healthy fear of the hammer…maybe they need to be taught, kind of like how you frighten wild bears so they don’t get comfortable around people.

An idea: Every Mexican who tries to cross the border gets chased back with a giant carnival mallet. Within a generation, Mexis will come to fear the tool, as they rightly should.

The nineteen rocks-for-brains “scientists” who authored the paper suggest that only when blacks no longer feel threatened by hammers will the field of geology finally become racially “equitable.”

Hopefully, blacks never learn about the rock group Skrewdriver, or that’s another tool down the toilet.

The Week That Perished