What is a libertarian?

Guest Post by Eric Peters

Let’s begin with a question rarely asked – and almost never answered. Probably because of the answer:

Who owns you?

This is the fundamental moral – and political – question. Because everything that follows depends on how it is answered. Here is how libertarians – uncapitalized, to differentiate the more/political philosophy from the political party – answer it:

I own me, you own you. We each own ourselves. No more – and no less.

No one else owns anyone else, as that would be an affirmation of slavery, to whatever degree.

Slavery is a moral outrage, to whatever degree.

Those who advocate for it are immoral – are criminals, if they practice it.

Some hold that there is a creator God who owns everything, being the author of all of it. This may be so. But if so, his ownership does not convey title over his creations to some of his creations – to lord it over them. If there is a creator God then our relationship to him is individual – entre nous –  and cannot be conveyed to other individuals.

Nonetheless, the claim to title is regularly asserted. Originally in the form of what was styled the “divine right of kings,” who claimed their sovereign right to lord it over over others, having been “anointed” by god.

Or so they said.

This claim to title was rejected, most eloquently by Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence. But without sufficient clarity. Which is why the “divine right” of individual sovereigns over sovereign individuals became the “divine right” of some individuals, who asserted their collective sovereignty over all other individuals.

This form of “divine right” has been called many other things, such as democracy, for instance.

But it amounts to the same thing as the individual is no less a slave if he is enslaved by several rather than one. If anything, it is a worse form of slavery since it is harder to recognize it – and easier to disguise it. Give the slave a vote over who his master is to be and he may think he is free. Grant him the power to enslave his fellow man by voting to do so and you have used a slave to enslave – and degraded the condition of both.

If self-ownership is acknowledged – Jefferson styled this all men are created equal (he meant before God and the law, not in terms of their endowments or their gumption) then it follows that we have an inalienable right to not be owned.

That we have the right to not be enslaved, to whatever degree.

And a slave is not merely owned.

He is controlled.

His freedom to act – even to think – is chained by whomever has the power to prevent him from acting, or to punish his actions or thoughts (as expressed by words) when his actions and thoughts have caused no harm to another person. This is the soft slavery of “laws” without harms.

Of punishments, without crimes.

Of “crimes” without victims.

It has become the bedrock basis of a criminal system which enslaves everyone, materially as well as functionally.

The fact that many do not see their chains does not alter the fact of their condition.

That they are controlled – and thereby, owned.

A slave is not free to leave the plantation – or even to select the kind of clothing he wears, or his family and other personal relationships. It is not merely that the fruit of his labor is stolen from him. Something even more intrinsically necessary to his humanity is also taken from him – by those who control him.

Who are they?

The same masters who assert ownership over their slaves materially, by claiming the right to take whatever arbitrarily decided portion of the slave’s property – his labor – it is claimed the slave “owes,” as via the euphemized theft styled taxes.

The worst of these “taxes” obviate the concept of property itself by rendering ownership itself an impossibility.

By hiding the fact of enslavement.

If you are only permitted to possess a thing – land, for instance – for so long as you continue to pay whatever “taxes” it is claimed you “owe” as the condition of the land not being seized from you, then it is self-evident you do not own it.

Those who “tax” it do.

You are their slave, for it is their property – and so, by dint of that are you.

These masters are the same people who control how you may use their property – which you are permitted to conditionally possess, for as long as you continue to use it as they direct – and pay the “taxes” they say you “owe.”

But how is it that one “owes” a sum of money – or any other material thing – to someone else, who was not a party to its creation?

Who has no rightful claim to it?

Which raises another question: What constitutes a rightful claim?

There can be only one morally unimpeachable answer to that question. The only rightful claimant to property is he who used himself to create it. The property being the work product of his body – of his mind. If he did not use the body or the mind of another person to cause the property to come into existence, then no other person has  the slightest rightful claim to any portion of it, or its value.

To assert otherwise is to deny self-ownership, to whatever degree.

Which is to assert ownership – slavery – to exactly that degree.

Inevitably, such an assertion leads to slavery in every degree.

If you abhor slavery in principle, is the practice of it in any degree less loathsome? If you would not be owned, would you assert ownership over another? And if you do assert it, then by what right would you deny the similar claims of others, over you?

Many have never considered these questions, which those who would be masters understand must never be asked – in order to prevent them from being answered.

Which might raise questions about these masters – and their claims to title in fief over us.

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79 Comments
MrLiberty
MrLiberty
December 29, 2021 3:46 pm

100%.

Stucky
Stucky
December 29, 2021 3:47 pm

Why doesn’t anyone ever quote the Bible when discussing Libertarian ideas?

comment image

ICE-9
ICE-9
  Stucky
December 29, 2021 4:55 pm

Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth?
I tell you, not at all, but rather division.
For from now on five in one house will be divided: three
against two, and two against three.

Luke 12:51-53

There, quoted it.

Red River D
Red River D
  ICE-9
December 29, 2021 5:19 pm

1 Corinthians 6:19

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

There goes libertarianism, right out the window.

Ginger
Ginger
  Stucky
December 30, 2021 7:46 am

”There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
Proverbs 14:12

TampaRed
TampaRed
December 29, 2021 3:48 pm

i don’t know if pure libertarianism would work in a complex society but we would be much better off toward that end of the political spectrum than we are currently–

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  TampaRed
December 29, 2021 4:07 pm

They lose me with allowing monopolies (especially the techs that are all mobbed up with the government) to censor whoever they want on the theory of “don’t like it? StArT yOuR oWn PlAtFoRm!’

We how that worked out for Parler. When they were the #1 download on the App Store, the big tech companies instantly got them de-banked. I see that Robert Malone got booted off Twitter today. It’s bullshit. They should no more be allowed to do that than the phone company should be allowed to cancel your land line because you said “fuck Joe Biden”.

wildhorses
wildhorses
  TampaRed
December 29, 2021 9:03 pm

Libertarian transhumanism. How long before libertarian ideology becomes libertarian transhumanism? A portion of libertarians promote transhumanism.

StackingStock
StackingStock
  wildhorses
December 29, 2021 9:09 pm

A portion of libertarians promote transhumanism.

Like where DICK?

wildhorses
wildhorses
  StackingStock
December 29, 2021 9:17 pm

I am a biological female. A soft-spoken one, too.

I use mojeek as a search engine first, then ddg.

Tampa Red has an ability to search.

StackingStock
StackingStock
  wildhorses
December 29, 2021 9:40 pm

biological female ” CUNT” sheep, sorry for calling you a dick, my bad):

wildhorses
wildhorses
  StackingStock
December 29, 2021 10:12 pm

King Nothing

I witness Admin, Ghost, Gayle, HSF and– Others Too- important contributors who are serious and informed. And Those Remembered; I keep them close. If they ever consider me a cunt, I need to shipshape my attitude. However, I am the harshest judge of my character. I am told.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  wildhorses
December 29, 2021 9:47 pm

Nice catch, wildhorses. I did not know this. Keep up the good work.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  StackingStock
December 29, 2021 9:44 pm

https://transhumanism.fandom.com/wiki/Libertarian_tran

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/transhumanism-and-libertarianism_b_5248966

https://hpluspedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_transhumanism

Transhumanism and Libertarianism Are Entirely Compatible

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-growing-world-of-libertarian-transhumanism/

Post-Humanity: Transhumanism, Libertarianism, and the End of History—Part II

Seems a simple search on the two terms yields many, many results.

Now who’s the dick, falconflight?

Methinks ’tis thee.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 9:57 pm

Oops. Got the monikers mixed up. Should be Stackingstock, not falconflight.

StackingStock
StackingStock
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 10:04 pm

Is your GOV.SCUM.COM shift almost over?

I’ll take the most incredible links for $200 Alex.

Sorry SS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  StackingStock
December 29, 2021 10:19 pm

She said, “A portion of libertarians promote transhumanism.”

I looked. She is correct. She did not say all. She did not say most. She said a portion, and she’s right.

I did not know this, but it makes perfect sense when you consider the Libertarian philosophy.

This link is from Reason magazine. Are you saying that Reason magazine is not Libertarian?

Transhumanism and Libertarianism Are Entirely Compatible

You might say that there are very few transhumanist Libertarians, but you can’t say she’s wrong.

StackingStock
StackingStock
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 10:37 pm

She’s about as right as this ignorant fucking CUNT in shitty cartoon form.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  StackingStock
December 29, 2021 10:51 pm

If that is your reply, then you don’t have an argument or a defense.

And, what exactly about the link between the two bothers you?

If a person “owns” their own body without any regulation from government or limit from morality, shouldn’t they be able to modify it with technology that is available?

Why are you objecting so?

Have you read William Gibson’s Neuromancer?

falconflight
falconflight
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 10:50 pm

I’m a very average person intellectually, so let me ask you a serious question, asking for your opinion: Admittedly, I haven’t followed the so-called libertarian ‘movement’, but honestly, and perhaps quite ignorantly, I thought that in years past, libertarianism was a ‘conservative’ philosophy, of limited gov’t; ‘leave me alone.’ I do realize that in recent years, maybe 20 plus years, I don’t know, that the leftist/Marxists have claimed libertarianism as a shield for their drug and sexual proclivities and even moar govt intervention in the molding of society. I certainly am not in any way ‘liberal’ in a social sense…or quite frankly in any sense. I snapped at you earlier because I didn’t know why you brought me up in your earlier posts.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  falconflight
December 29, 2021 11:01 pm

I brought you up earlier because I had read so many of your replies on another thread that I got your name mixed up with his. Same number of syllables.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  falconflight
December 29, 2021 11:05 pm

I’m not a believer in Libertarianism, so I wouldn’t think that I can speak for the philosophy, but having said that I agree with your take.

Libertarianism is neither implicitly conservative or liberal. I imagine there must be left and right wings of it.

But, yes, there seems to be a faction that uses it to excuse degeneracy, drug use and other vices.

falconflight
falconflight
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 11:08 pm

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 30, 2021 7:07 am

Yes AP – according to this there are all sorts of colours:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  falconflight
December 30, 2021 7:06 am

If you are unsure about these various political labels – it’s fun to take this test. I did it and came out as a slightly left libertarian which surprised me because I always thought of myself as conservative ‘old school’ having lived nearly 8 decades I’m allowed that.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

falconflight
falconflight
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 10:29 pm

Hey Ernst? Maybe your pronouns are also mixed up. A lot of those types in the StormFront. Just sayin

falconflight
falconflight
  Archeaopteryx Phoenix
December 29, 2021 10:27 pm

You wanna suck my dick? Wow, no thx Ernst. Remember GermArabia is almost a reality.

Archeaopteryx Phoenix
Archeaopteryx Phoenix
  falconflight
December 29, 2021 10:59 pm

bug
bug
December 29, 2021 4:14 pm

Libertarians (I was one, once) talk about non-aggression, etc. This is all just a philosophical veil for their real values. They follow two laws:

1) You are not the Boss of Me.

2) I’ve got mine, what is your problem?

It is an immature and self-indulgent creed. They are pretty good at pointing out the injustices of government, and there are plenty of those, but they have no solutions.

Get deplatformed? Start your own media company. Don’t like that the railway charges you extra, simply because an oligarch wants to run you out of business and take over? Start your own railroad. Don’t want drugs and prostitution in your neighborhood? Too bad, the market has spoken.

No force or fraud. But how about all the other ways to take unfair advantage of people?

And to top it off, most libertarian “intellectuals” work in gov’t, gov’t funded universities, or gov’t funded think tanks.

Libertarianism is the worship of Mammon. They follow the golden rule – he who has the gold, makes the rules. And they are completely devoid of a coherent moral system.

Libertarianism is simply a gilded turd.

falconflight
falconflight
  bug
December 29, 2021 4:32 pm

Whodda thunk AOC would post at TBP?

“No force or fraud. But how about all the other ways to take unfair advantage of people?’

m
m
  bug
December 29, 2021 5:47 pm

You could summarize your points into: “I am my own God.”

And Del Noce realized the key tenet of Marx was “to be completely free, man has to be entirely self-created.
Now compare these two.

PSBindy
PSBindy
  bug
December 29, 2021 7:21 pm

Maybe you don’t understand, bug.

I’ll ‘splaine it to ya: When the new Golden Horde comes galloping toward your city, all you need to do is tell them “I own me, this is my personal line which you may not cross.” That’ll flummox them with undeniable truth. They will turn around, get back into their boats and go home.

See how simple it is?

a9racer
a9racer
  PSBindy
December 30, 2021 8:30 am

Galloping boats. Now I am really confused…

bug
bug
  PSBindy
December 30, 2021 8:13 pm

PSBindy,

What? I’m not a libertarian. If the golden horde comes galloping toward me, they will be met with force. I would not engage in philosophical arguements, and I certainly would not be talking to them about properly rights and non-agression.

I’m guessing you are actually responding to someone else.

PSBindy
PSBindy
  bug
December 31, 2021 5:52 am

Hello bug. I posted a reply to your reply to me several hours ago. I must have clacked when I should have clicked because I can’t find it. I was hoping you saw it and responded with an “Oh, ok.”

Here it is again:

Hi bug. My post was in jest. At least the part about you not understanding. My ‘splaination was so over the top in ridicule of libertarian solutions that I thought no ‘/sarc tag’ was necessary. Poor communication on my part.

You’ve obviously passed completely through the libertarian phase many of us went through.

Hope I click the post comment tab correctly this time.

bug
bug
  PSBindy
December 31, 2021 1:15 pm

Hi PSB. I considered that it might be sarcasm, but since so many people are both clueless and sincerely over the top, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you had your responses confused with someone else.

It is ironic that the enforcement of Libertarian principles will always require the generous and enthusiastic use of aggression…don’t you think?

Thanks.

PSBindy
PSBindy
  bug
December 31, 2021 8:03 pm

So glad you saw my late reply, bug. Thx for understanding. And of course I agree, force, implied or kinetic, is necessary to enFORCE Libertarianism or any other “ism.”

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  bug
December 30, 2021 7:11 am

I don’t think that is a fair analysis at all, bug and the down-votes indicate that I am not alone. Have a look at what it really means to be a libertarian or any other political colour – these people have some very good examples here:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Maybe you might take the test and find out where your proclivities lie?

PSBindy
PSBindy
  Austrian Peter
December 30, 2021 8:30 am

Libertarians, in general, are people I would like to have as neighbors.

Their political philosophy simply does not have a practical foundation underlying it imo.

bug
bug
  Austrian Peter
December 30, 2021 8:19 pm

Hi AP,

(BTW, I got the turner diary and am looking forward to reading it. Tx)

I disagree with you on libertarians. They do not have a monopoly on being against gov’t overreach, tyranny, and other bad stuff. Lots of people don’t like bad stuff. If one of their platform planks was “It is wrong to beat puppies!” that would not mean that all those who don’t think beating puppies is particularly proper are automatically libertarian. In fact, you could argue from libertarian principles that beating puppies is right and good, if you derive some benefit from it.

Butler Shaffer, (who worked as a professor at a gov’t university) argued in an article at Lewrockwell.com, that if someone left an infant on his doorstep during a snowstorm, he would be within his “rights” to move the (helpless infant) trespasser to the sidewalk, since he had no obligation to it, and it was on his property without his permission.

Walter Block, (again, working as a professor at a gov’t university), argues among other things, that a mother is entitled to evict (her fetus) as a “renter” who she has removed permission to inhabit her uterus. He has argued that it is entirely within the libertarian framework to sell oneself into slavery, and the “contract” could not then be abolished without the one-sided agreement of the slaver. He has also written a book that promotes all manner of immorality beneath the libertarian framework.

I admitted honestly that I was once a libertarian. I am quite familiar with the simplistic political compass and other libertarian propaganda. I also think that beating puppies is wrong. But maturity comes when one can look past “gov’t bad” and look to see if, in this complex world, the market is the answer to everything. I say that it is not. And I certainly think that people have moral obligations to others, outside of the market, and despite the non-aggression principle.

I can happily stay on the anti-authoritarian/conservative/economic freedom axis and not be a libertarian. I could, if I wish, devise a test that would define good people as libertarian, and bad people as authoritarian, but it would be no more valid. Perhaps, if we changed the labels a touch, you would find yourself as a slightly perverted corporatist. After all, the left is into abortion, LGBTQ, transgender, and pornography, and the libertarians are definitely pro-“business,” so you might actually find yourself sharing that location on the map with people you distinctly disagree with.

The final analysis is that the rules I laid out hold true, no matter if you are left or right libertarian.

1. Nobody can tell you what to do (Your not the boss of me).

2. You have no obligation to anybody else. (I’ve got mine, what’s your problem).

The libertarian philosophy is for pot-smoking college students, and their gov’t paid professors and think tanks. Much like marxism. It will never work in real life.

Those people who are pro-market, pro-freedom are not obligated to claim libertarianism. They can actually work for solutions, and compromise with others, without all the “gov’t bad/that’s not fair” handwaving.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  bug
December 31, 2021 1:04 am

Very well argued bug, thank you for your efforts here. I think we may be talking about the misunderstandings arising from using labels, so I agree with you that we should drop this and talk humanities and beliefs.

I agree that Political Compass is not kosher but it is fun as a bit of a game – I don’t take it seriously. And so glad you got the book – it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but full of good info especially the Appendices.

bug
bug
  Austrian Peter
December 31, 2021 1:18 pm

Thanks AP.

The reason that I left libertarianism is not that they do not have valid complaints. It is that they do not have valid solutions. And, anybody who wants to do whatever they feel like doing, regardless of the consequences, can claim Libertarianism (left or right).

It all becomes too close to Satanism: “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.”

bug
bug
  Austrian Peter
December 31, 2021 1:20 pm

I’m looking forward to the book. The Little House on the Prairie books are big with the prepper community, since they show how life was lived in simpler times.

I am interested in seeing the viewpoint of Turner, from his wide experience in even simpler times….

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  bug
December 30, 2021 7:18 am

Just to clarify – here is a definition of libertarian key beliefs:
“a political philosophy that advocates only minimal state intervention in the free market and the private lives of citizens.”

I believe in free markets, small government and sound money. These are the key tenets of “Austrian Economics” which is where my moniker came from (I am not Austrian). A great site to learn about this is: https://mises.org/about-mises or read my book.

bug
bug
  Austrian Peter
December 30, 2021 8:34 pm

Minimal state intervention in the free market and the private lives of citizens. Sounds good to me. But it always does. When you have crack ho’s promoting their services on the “free” sidewalk outside your door, can gov’t interfere “minimally?”

When you are not allowed into any pub in your town, can gov’t interfere “minimally?”

When certain entrepreneurs offer “protection” to your business because it is adjacent to their ethnic neighborhood, can gov’t interfere “minimally?”

When your daughter is dating a Pakistani twice her age (and all his friends) and she won’t listen to you, can gov’t interfere “minimally?”

I mean, seriously, how does anybody even define minimally? The non-aggression principle?

If so, then you have no right to tell the crack ho street entrepreneurs that they cannot sell their “wares” on public property, nor can your force a pub or other business to trade with you, nor can you take pre-emptive action against those public spirited folks who just want to ensure the safety of the neighborhood, and only need a bit of money to help them do so, nor can you interfere with the “voluntary” relationships of your daughter, who happens to like a large and vigorous Pakistani social circle.

I also have Mises “Human Action.” While I agree that man “acts” and will do so in his perceived best interests, I disagree that there is a clean way to deal with all of the externalities that arise. We live in a fallen world. Claiming that if big mean gov’t would just leave us alone we’d be better off does not match the reality.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  bug
December 31, 2021 1:22 am

Again we are talking definitions – small government doesn’t mean no government or abandonment of sound human principles in the same way that free markets aren’t an extreme of no regulation at all – otherwise if would be anarchy. Moderation in all things my father used to say.

In our community we are planning for a localised economy but clearly it would be impossible to cut ourselves off entirely and we would need to trade with others. My colleague and friend, Niall Warry and his group, have devised a local government system for us which you can review here; I would appreciate your views as you obviously have some very sound thinking:

http://harrogateagenda.org.uk/

It should give you an idea of our political direction.

falconflight
falconflight
December 29, 2021 4:30 pm

I used to think that it meant abiding in letter and spirit to the US Constitution.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  falconflight
December 29, 2021 8:45 pm

.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  falconflight
December 29, 2021 8:47 pm
falconflight
falconflight
  Iska Waran
December 29, 2021 9:35 pm

Yeah ok, a virtuous (At least trying), God fearing people is necessary to make it work.

Mr. Weebs
Mr. Weebs
December 29, 2021 4:44 pm

Haha, how appropriate as my property tax bill arrives by the mail today. We get no services for our money here except a bloated highway dept. They also picked a perfect time for a full reassessment with the current housing market along with the school district proposing two huge new capital projects. Haha.

gatsby1219
gatsby1219
  Mr. Weebs
December 29, 2021 5:24 pm

“They also picked a perfect time for a full reassessment with the current housing market”
Something happen in 2008/09, but don’t worry it will be different this time….

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Mr. Weebs
December 30, 2021 7:22 am

Yep, same here in UK. We have a thing called ‘Rates’ based on house values and used to fund local services like police, emergency, fire etc, elderly care and lots of politically correct NGO busy-bodies
that deliver little. My current rate is US$2,500 pa

ICE-9
ICE-9
December 29, 2021 4:50 pm

One man’s freedom is another man’s destiny. Being on the side of freedom is liberty, being on the receiving end of liberty is slavery. Enough of the Jean-Jacques Rousseau nonsense. The world is yours for the taking so go take it.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  ICE-9
December 30, 2021 7:23 am

Fortune favours the bold 🙂

Hansen
Hansen
December 29, 2021 4:59 pm

For all, well most of my 75 years I have thought about Jesus, and what the world would be like if the Romans and the Sanhedrin hadn’t murdered him. Would he have supported the formation of the Church of Rome? Would he have taken issue with Constantine and the bishops who chose what texts would be allowed in the bible? Would he have been angered by all the killing and carnage carried out in his name by all the governments this past two millennia? It seems pretty clear to a simple guy like me that he would not approve of any of the above. We were given just a few (10) rules to abide by. They are really all we need to live together in peace and harmony, we need only follow them.

Stucky
Stucky
  Hansen
December 29, 2021 5:21 pm

Had Jesus not been murdered …. EVERY PLACE that is Christian today (even if only in name) would be Mooslim.

Not. Kidding.

falconflight
falconflight
  Stucky
December 29, 2021 5:28 pm

Cause all the Christians would be in the Holy Father’s Mansion?

overthecliff
overthecliff
  Stucky
December 29, 2021 9:48 pm

Stucky is right. Jesus had to die.

Anonymous
Anonymous
December 29, 2021 6:09 pm

The libertarian is a biological speed bump, who will be eaten by niggers. But in being eaten, the libertarians will buy some time for the rest of us to organize collectively and survive.

Balbinus
Balbinus
December 29, 2021 6:18 pm

I am a simple bond slave of Jesus Christ since I accepted Him as Savior 38 years ago. As to the talk of property taxes, in the 3rd dispensation of the bible God instituted human government. Even Jesus himself taught us to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and to render unto God the things that are Gods. Taxes, even as unpleasant as they are have their God given place in this world.. The real problem is that the government is run by the devil’s crowd instead of Christ’s crowd. So, as bad as I hate it I pay Caesar his due. If Caesar (Xiden) continues to make lifes taxes unbearable I suppose I will drop out of the whole deal. I have heard he would like us plebes to pay 28% at a minimum. For me at that level I just won’t pay anything and he can do what he thinks is correct. If that’s put a bullet in my brain that will just send me to my heavenly home.

i forget
i forget
December 29, 2021 6:54 pm

Libertarian: a librarian with a curation of books, pamphlets, historical quotes & youtube videos that s/he either conflates with reality or believes could be reality if only Ron Paul were selected president.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  i forget
December 29, 2021 8:49 pm
Ken31
Ken31
  Iska Waran
December 29, 2021 9:37 pm

Sure is the way it turns out under Judaic law, anyways.

i forget
i forget
  i forget
December 30, 2021 12:18 pm

“Laundered” is a fave o’ mine. All those washerwo/men doin’ their da’ nile ablutions. The stains people still believe’ll come out in the wash. Like that original sin one, let alone these newer original antigenic sin ones. Amazing. Entertaining. Tragi-comedy. Vortex gonna vortex.

If voting, & so voters, did anything, it’d be illegal & they’d be outlaws. And so it doesn’t & so they aren’t. Unless real law is what’s meant. In which case they’s outlaws alright.

pyrrhuis
pyrrhuis
December 29, 2021 7:23 pm

In fact, libertarians are liberals who support Obamacare and many .gov programs, including the income tax, but who like to smoke a lot of weed without being interfered with ( I agree with that part)…They also support open borders, because everyone has the right to be everywhere…They are worthless Americans…

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  pyrrhuis
December 30, 2021 7:27 am

All untrue – see above

bug
bug
  Austrian Peter
December 30, 2021 8:49 pm

Actually, many libertarians do support open borders. Their caveat is that the borders of their personal property are sacrosanct. But they are happy to have aliens here to consume, contract, and provide labor. Just not in their yards.

They do not often speak about the externalities associated with open borders, except to say that “if only gov’t would not…”

For example, in my area, the farm workers from Mexico come to work the agriculture in the fields. The farms are located outside city limits and have work for about 7 months out of the year. But the migrants and their families do not live on the farms, they live in the city. They do not live here for 7 months, but year round, and they have families. So all of the education, crime, healthcare, littering, parking, subsidized rents, and everything associated with these workers are dealt with year-round by the city gov’t, county health, law enforcement, section 8, and their hapless neighbors. But the agribusiness that brings them here just has to pay them a cheap wage and minimal benefits, and only has to deal with them to the extent that they are currently employed. They do not deal with the externalities.

The libertarians support this, though they will talk in terms of freedom, property and contract rights, movement of capital, etc. If you point out the gov’t and corporate creation of this situation, they make weak excuses about how otherwise lettuce would be more expensive, and that gov’t should not provide “welfare.” But never a proper solution, just pie in the sky philosophizing.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  bug
December 31, 2021 1:33 am

Agreed Bug, well argued. I think we do have a convergence of views – it’s just about clarifying our thinking and where we come from. I am a Brit from a very small, cramped island culture, whereas you have a much better appreciation of a vast country with all its associated diversity.

I recognised my insular thinking when I was living in Cape Town for 10 years and travelling southern Africa. It was a major lesson for me and lots of learning which I explain, in part, in my book.

Anonymous
Anonymous
December 29, 2021 8:43 pm

The parasites working within government , Be they elected , appointed or hired are none the less a parasitic infestation destroying true freedom and of course accountability !
I never used the public school system for my children yet I paid $4,000 a year for that system to exist .
I had a pissing contest with a person claiming my kids used the school sports fields for recreation council sports so what’s the problem . The problem was I also paid $500 to $1500 for field use for my kids teams mr pissy was unaware of that . Now kids are grown and I still pay for someone else’s kids to be educated . Some say that is the cost of civilized society .
I say that’s a socialized bull shit considering the powers that be award a diploma for a 1.6 GPA !
This for someone that cannot perform at an elementary level !
Again high priced results forced to support parasites

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
December 29, 2021 9:57 pm

Libertarian = Hedonistic Cheap Skate.

Glock-N-Load
Glock-N-Load
December 30, 2021 1:47 am

We need much stronger local government imo. And much smaller in size and geographic area/population. Let’s face it, we will never be rid of government.

wildhorses
wildhorses
  Glock-N-Load
December 30, 2021 2:02 am

Our forces have to have a coder. A database coder of our interests and those of our (outsiders) opponents. This is debatable; our database is traditional, but to hear from those who have invested their time and resources is paramount: Real Estate Pup and NickelthroweR to a Majority of others for example. A database of opponents is wholly doable. This is the 21st Century.

Traditions are an Art. Not passing them on is criminal.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Glock-N-Load
December 30, 2021 7:31 am

I agree that there should be much more local government and much less central government. But those in power will not give it up easily.

In UK we are moving in this direction with devolution of sorts but these Welsh, Scottish and Irish regional governments have been taken over by liberal lefties. Which is why they have clamped down on the Covid restrictions whereas Boris is fighting a rear guard action.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
December 30, 2021 5:36 am

All so true Eric and well explained. But of course we all have rulers and they are global now:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021-07-05/who-are-they-look-globalists-and-monopolists

very old white guy
very old white guy
December 30, 2021 6:28 am

To live one’s life as best he can without harming others and not have harm inflected upon himself by others would be freedom. All forms of government are harmful and intrusive. As populations expand there has to be some degree of control as everyone cannot have everything, it is a physical impossibility for 8 billion people to live in multimillion dollar estates on the oceanfront. Fortunately most of us are content with having adequate food, shelter and work. Expanding one’s intellect is important to some, but most are comfortable with adequate information that allows them to go through the day untroubled by intellectual rigor.
It has been said that everything is cyclical, that may be so. Society is definitely regressing, as is human intelligence, the evidence is all around us.
While information and “knowledge” has been expanding wisdom has been contracting.
I do not fear for society and the country as it will dissolve as has every other nation in history.
Man’s inhumanity to man has been well documented and God apparently has no desire to change that, the 20th century proved that beyond a doubt. The “covid”, hysterical insanity has also shown that man is still more than willing to inflect as much harm as possible on his fellow man. For the pronoun challenged, man, refers to all mankind.
Good luck.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  very old white guy
December 30, 2021 7:34 am

All well said Old Guy – but perhaps it takes this many years of life to discover such wisdom?

Botched_Lobotomy
Botched_Lobotomy
December 30, 2021 7:56 am

noun. A libertarian is a man who always votes Republican but is too cowardly to admit it in public. No women are libertarians.

synonyms: pothead, moron, girly-man, narcissist, hop head, gullible fool, fop

use in a sentence: The libertarian probably voted Republican again but he keeps hemming and hawing about “issues with both sides.”

Old School Counselor
Old School Counselor
December 30, 2021 9:00 am

Our ancient Greek ancestors would have scoffed at our contemporary infatuation with liberty, just as they eschewed Democracy. They wisely preferred a proper balance between sovereign man and society. Radical individualism came much later and relied on the bio-spirit of civilized white people from England, the direct ancestors of those well-endowed ancient Greeks. It may be true that wise intelectual white men can thrive in a libertarian ethos, but less endowed others may not. The proof is in the pudding.