Great! Now you never really “own” your car either

GM thinks that because they hold a copyright to some software, that somehow gives them ownership over what you do with the copy you legally purchased with the car itself. Once that purchase is concluded, the vehicle owners should be seen to have given up any proprietary interest in the single vehicle you bought. But thanks to copyright and Section 1201, that’s an issue that faces “uncertainty.” And that’s a problem.

From the comments section;  “The logical next step is to disallow the use of the car without a software-license from the manufacturer, rendering most cars unsellable on the second hand market without paying large sums to the car-maker.  Further steps: yearly license payments to operate your vehicle & payments per designated allowed driver.”

Here’s the GM statement:

Proponents incorrectly conflate ownership of a vehicle with ownership of the underlying computer software in a vehicle…. Although we currently consider ownership of vehicle software instead of wireless handset software, the law’s ambiguity similarly renders it impossible for Proponents to establish that vehicle owners own the software in their vehicles (or even own a copy of the software rather than have a license), particularly where the law has not changed.

First, EMP can knock out your car. Now, this. When were computers first put in cars?  Mid 1970’s?  I wouldn’t be surprised if one day there isn’t a huge demand for pre-1975 vehicles.  Really, who needs this shit?

GMES

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150421/23581430744/gm-says-that-while-you-may-own-your-car-it-owns-software-it-thanks-to-copyright.shtml


 

Author: Stucky

I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it.

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Rise Up
Rise Up

Stucky, when you purchase a vehicle, unless you obtain the MSO (Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin), you don’t “own” that car. MSOs are delivered with the car/truck to the dealer. When said car/truck is sold, the MSO is immediately sent to the state motor vehicle department where it is microfilmed and then shredded. You receive a “certificate of title” (or the bank holds it if you got a bank loan to purchase the vehicle). A certificate of title does not convey any ownership.

So regardless of any tom-foolery about software, you don’t own your car/truck and never did unless you got the MSO.

Zarathustra

Rise Up, sounds like you have taken Michael Badnarik’s constitution class. 😉

Hollow man
Hollow man

We don’t own anything. Even if paid off. No pay taxes. They take what you thought was yours land, house whatever.

Zarathustra

Stucky says:

Rise Up

Thanks. Didn’t know all that. I think that sucks. Our fridge has a chip in it. I wonder if we own that?
____________________________________

If you have to pay taxes on it, then the state and you are partners. The tax is to compensate the state for their share of ownership. So you own your fridge, but you only partially own your house and car.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster

If that’s the case, and GM didn’t offer a license for the car’s software as part of the sale, then everyone should take that sick son-of-a-bitch recalled GM piece of shit that you owe 60 more months on, straight back to the dealer and park it. If they come after you for back payments, file for an order of recission since the deal was fraudulent, by their GM’s legal expert’s words. If you’re lucky the judge will side with you and award a judgment in addition to wiping out the deal.

harry p.
harry p.

Its not just gm and its not just cars, heres jd getting in on it

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

Anonymous
Anonymous

I think this could be brought to a halt real quick if buyers know about this and insist that the purchase contract state the sale includes ownership of all software as well as all hardware, otherwise refuse to buy the car.

ASIG
ASIG

Anon = me

Rise Up
Rise Up

Zarathustra says: Rise Up, sounds like you have taken Michael Badnarik’s constitution class. ?
—-
Actually I’ve heard this from multiple sources, lately Harmon Taylor, but don’t know of anyone successfully doing it. If are able to obtain the MSO, I believe you don’t have to register your vehicle, pay property taxes on it, or even get license plates…but good luck explaining that to police when you get pulled over.

You and Hollow have it about right–any sort of tax enters you into a contract of sorts. We’ve been fucked over 10 ways to Sunday.

ottomatik
ottomatik

Rise- Is the contract we are beholden to through tax transfered through the sale of Bonds, Treasuries, ect.?
When sold to foreign entities,through T bill’s, whose rights are stronger and whom decides in a bankruptcy situation?

Persnickety
Persnickety

@Rise Up: I’ve never heard this theory before. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but could you point me to a detailed write-up, or elaborate on this theory?

Zarathustra

Rise Up says:

Zarathustra says: Rise Up, sounds like you have taken Michael Badnarik’s constitution class. ?
—-
Actually I’ve heard this from multiple sources, lately Harmon Taylor, but don’t know of anyone successfully doing it. If are able to obtain the MSO, I believe you don’t have to register your vehicle, pay property taxes on it, or even get license plates…but good luck explaining that to police when you get pulled over.

You and Hollow have it about right–any sort of tax enters you into a contract of sorts. We’ve been fucked over 10 ways to Sunday.
___________________________

I have been told (but not recently) that it is possible to obtain the MSO in the purchase of a new car at some dealerships in Texas, but yes, it would be a continual hassle with the copfuks who are ignorant of the law and busting you over not having license plates, nor registration.

ragman
ragman

I wouldn’t drive a GM POS if you gave it to me. They can take their fucking “software” and shove it up their collective asses! There was absolutely nothing wrong with points, condenser, rotor and a coil. Throw in a Holley 4 barrel(or two) and you have the beginning os a great mill. I guess I’m dating myself, but that’s what I grew up with.

TE
TE

1. It is NOT just GM, and it is NOT just a little software ownership issue.

2. Why do you think SmartMeters and computer chips with WiFi are popping up everywhere?

3. We citizens had our rights to own property stripped from us with the Civil War. Once gain, NOT about freedom, about future ownership rights. We, as in American taxpaying, pretend voting, citizens, lost, btw.

This shit just keeps coming and 95% of us are gleefully signing up in the name of convenience, connectivity, “savings” and other bullshit.

Stop buying the fancy, high-tech, crap is my only option. Because it is more than obvious that my fellow serfs are A-Okay with it all.

We can’t be many years away from the demand that all of us MUST buy these things. Say it will never happen, then take another look at Obamacare and USDA law, alongside some EPA decisions and actions.

We no longer even own the right of our own bodies to not be injected with toxins against our will. Around 90% of this democracy fully supports the right because they truly believe the State is right in this one.

Whatever, the chip in your arm is coming soon. Then all this will be moot because it should be obvious to all that we no longer even have the rights to our freaking earthly-shells. I’m sure the Founding Fathers and Jesus would support it.

Man, there are just so many Statist tools and so few that have the mental facilities to see them.

Rise Up
Rise Up

Persnickety says: @Rise Up: I’ve never heard this theory before. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but could you point me to a detailed write-up, or elaborate on this theory?

————
Persnick, look up the 2 gentlemen referenced above to learn more. It’s not a “theory”, it’s law.

Billy
Billy

Just came back in from having a smoke on the back porch…

Parked in the driveway is Big Fugly – my ’73 Ford Ranger highboy fullsized pickup truck. No electronic anything. No GPS, no Wifi, no computer controlled anything… it’s what the Ranger used to be, back before they made them dinky and weak.

ragman – it’s got the 390 with a 4bbl Holley on top. It shows its age some, a little skinned up at the elbows and knees, but so what? I don’t have to deal with shit like what’s in the above article for the rest of my life.

Just thought “The car companies can suck it… I’m happy.”

Bea Lever
Bea Lever

RiseUp -How could you get a MSO on a used car? Does this mean used cars could never really be owned since the clerk’s office shreds the original? What does a statement of origin have to do with the title?

AC
AC

Next up: Annual subscription fee for the car software.

Also:

http://opengarages.org/handbook/2014_car_hackers_handbook_compressed.pdf

Fuck GM.

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