OPEN THREAD – WHAT WILL AMERICA LOOK LIKE ON NOVEMBER 7, 2016?

We’ve got some smart people on TBP. Let’s hear your predictions about the economy, debt, war, taxes, employment, and next president.

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David
David
November 7, 2012 9:32 am

Supreme court will be stacked liberal, negating that “check” in our system of checks and balance.

ThePessimisticChemist
ThePessimisticChemist
November 7, 2012 9:37 am

War with Syria and Iran. It pulls Russia into the mix, and China calls in our debts forcing us to borrow from other nations at exorbitant interest rates.

National debt increases exponentially.

Those on welfare and and social welfare programs increase to 60% of the popular vote.

The cost of college continues its unrelenting upward trend.

Obamacare drives many small town docs out of business, now its either big hospital or stay sick.

Obesity rates climb to 60% of the total population. 85% are considered overweight.

Honey boo boo gets pregnant in her teens. Her mom spins it off into another reality tv show.

Jim Quinn shows up on dancing with the stars.

The price of ammo will skyrocket.

youcanthavemyglock
youcanthavemyglock
November 7, 2012 9:48 am

TPC, sounds about right! and i replied to you in another thread but i’ll quote it here:

‘for what purpose do you want a handgun? what size are ur hands, are u left or right handed?
As far as shotguns, just get a Remington or Mossberg pump action in 12/20 gauge and you’re set. I also like Ithaca self defense shotgun.’

TeresaE
TeresaE
November 7, 2012 9:49 am

I don’t know about you all, but I am scared to death.

The thoughts of urban residents rioting do not scare me as badly as a lame-duck President with delusions of socialism, Stalin and grandeur.

If the party wants to survive the next four years, they are going to need to shove through as much damaging government control as quickly as they possibly can, because odds are great that the financial shitstorm will be taking them down mid-term.

O has nothing to lose, he has already abused the Executive Order card – and NOBODY has called him on it, so we are going to soon see (or maybe not, pretty easy to shut down the ‘net then keep the MSM pundits from telling us, omission isn’t lying and all that happy bullshit) – so we shouldn’t be surprised as we watch our civil liberties finish packing up and leaving.

1. The ‘net is not going to look the same and I fear sites like this, zerohedge, etc., are going to be shut down as being “subversive” and “divisive.” We are already hearing Washington grumbling about “Chinese cyber-threats,” next up – total big company control of the web, which will quickly leave the little guys shut out of the market.

2. If still printing checks,there will be a minimum of 65 million on food stamps and the waiting list to see a doc under the government’s plan(s), is going to leave people dying. But, many of us won’t know about this until it is our loved one doing the dying.

3. Open hostilities will balloon into undeclared warzones in the Mid East, if not WWIII. Only time will tell what the response from China and Russia will be when Israel goes to war and we follow them. China and Russia own a lot of our natural resources and basic necessities, will be interesting to say the least.

4. The press will become more powerful (as dissent is shut down/silenced) and the things we are not told will multiply.

5. There will be a tax, or controls, on ammunition. Ammunition will become the new money train for organized crime (and organized criminal government).

Well, that’s enough for now. I hope to hell I’m wrong and that I haven’t missed big things that could change what I see as nearly inevitable.

Quick, please, somebody point out all the ways I’m wrong. Please.

Steve Hogan
Steve Hogan
November 7, 2012 9:54 am

Some predictions:

– $22 trillion national debt
– 25% unemployment (using the original methodology)
– 40% youth unemployment
– 60 million on food stamps
– we’re still in Afghanistan
– fighting half a dozen proxy wars in Africa
– the drug war continues
– weaponized drones flying over American cities
– the CPI will breach 5%, with real inflation closer to 20%
– gold will be north of $3500/oz
– oil will reach $150/barrel
– selective price controls will be imposed, resulting in shortages, lines, and rationing
– the top marginal income tax rate will be at least 45%

Eddie
Eddie
November 7, 2012 9:54 am

We will have that big deflationary event, sometime in this administration. Not this year, but before 2016. Stock market crash of the serious kind…

Gold and silver will off to the races, starting today. They will have a good run until that deflationary event, then correct sharply with everything else.

Interest rates will stay low throughout the term, taxes will go up, inflation will go up. Financial repression will be ruthlessly carried out against the dwindling middle class. the Fed will not lose control of interest rates until sometime later, after the crash.

As states and municipalities, start to go bankrupt, they will get bailed out to some degree by the federal government, adding substantially to the already insurmountable national debt. There will be “austerity measures” required to make this politically palatable to conservatives, but it will fly.

Basically I see a giant shit snowball, rolling downhill and picking up speed. It will get a lot bigger before it explodes….bigger than any of us thought possible, probably.

Dollars and EBT cards will buy a lot less food in four years.

I am going into extreme hunker-down mode.

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 7, 2012 9:57 am

Every American will be a billionaire.

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card802
card802
November 7, 2012 9:57 am

TeresaE,

No, I think you have it right. Going to the local gun store now.

May move to Texas, as they will probably secede.

ThePessimisticChemist
ThePessimisticChemist
November 7, 2012 10:01 am

@youcanhavemyglock

“TPC, sounds about right! and i replied to you in another thread but i’ll quote it here:

‘for what purpose do you want a handgun? what size are ur hands, are u left or right handed?
As far as shotguns, just get a Remington or Mossberg pump action in 12/20 gauge and you’re set. I also like Ithaca self defense shotgun.’”

I was on my way to that thread, but since we are on this one….

I want the handgun for two reasons: For fun, and in case TSHTF. As for hands, I’d say they are normal sized for a male.

I was leaning towards a Remington shotgun (my family loves Rem shotguns), so that sounds good.

@TeresaE
“1. The ‘net is not going to look the same and I fear sites like this, zerohedge, etc., are going to be shut down as being “subversive” and “divisive.” We are already hearing Washington grumbling about “Chinese cyber-threats,” next up – total big company control of the web, which will quickly leave the little guys shut out of the market.”

For me, thats the tipping point. When that happens the time to leave the country is NOW. I don’t care if I have to backback through Canda and swim to Greenland, I’m bugging out.

I see your pre-apocalyptic doom, and raise you WWIII!

Obama’s war with China/Russia results in a lot of smaller countries getting blasted, most notably in the middle east. We don’t push the button on each other, just fry each others pawns.

The MSM declares that a lot of the research in the 50s suggesting nuclear radiation was harmful is faulty and lets us know that the people we are frying aren’t suffering anymore than if we had dropped conventional munitions.

Nuclear winter sets in. Global Warming is blamed and all dairy and beef cattle are shot to reduce USA’s methane production.

A new Dark Ages sets in, with the average life expectancy of most humans being at or near Dark Age levels thanks to massive cancer rates and a decrease in nutritional quality.

RE cackles in his Alaskan bunker and tells the locals (moose for the most part, everything else is dead/dying) “I TOLD YOU SO I WAS RIGHT HEY STOP CHEWING ON THE FURNITURE”

harry p.
harry p.
November 7, 2012 10:05 am

my prediction is: things will be worse but the world won’t go “Mad Max”, the frogs will continue to boil slowly.

I am going to try and be optimistic about this whole thing (which is a change for me). My depression hit me months ago when I realized there really was no significant differences between the eventual candidates. But not having Romney in place for the slow collapse gives truly liberty minded people a chance to come to the forefront and present solutions and a possible rally cry to the easily swayed sheeple when big govt fails. It doesn’t guarantee it but I think its odds just increased.

INTJ_4_puppets
INTJ_4_puppets
November 7, 2012 10:07 am

More pointless and costly wars, banks and corporations continuing to engorge themselves on the former middle class, and a continual eroding of civil liberties – but then I’m not sure how any of that would be different under Mr. Magic Underwear.

Once the puppet strings have been exposed it’s kind of hard to see any real difference between them.

Mark
Mark
November 7, 2012 10:12 am

Food and energy costs have to go up as the dollar is devalued to pay for that government spending. It follows that.

The Blue States of the northeast will pay $8 a gallon for gasoline to drive to the store to pay $8 for a gallon of milk. And when they get home won’t need to refrigrate that milk because they won’t be able to afford $8 a gallon for home heating oil.

Should be a booming business for wood stoves.

malic
malic
November 7, 2012 10:19 am

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Ron
Ron
November 7, 2012 10:25 am

A weaker european style country.Where your money buys you less.A stronger police state.

Stigmation
Stigmation
November 7, 2012 10:27 am

Oh LMAO. All so sad that Obama won? Like Romney would have changed anything? I would think that people on this site should be far smarter than that. America is empire in decline, we have lost our way as a republic. The fix is in and has been in since they killed JFK.. Oh wow, I guess I should have voted for this guy, he would have saved us LMAO!!!!

[imgcomment image&w=500&h=319&ei=6HyaUMGwKeO0yAGWuYHYAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1177&vpy=316&dur=2761&hovh=179&hovw=281&tx=153&ty=93&sig=108570083263457468229&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=132&tbnw=207&start=0&ndsp=55&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:0,i:119[/img]

Stigmation
Stigmation
November 7, 2012 10:28 am

Epic fail on first image lol

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Mahtomedi
Mahtomedi
November 7, 2012 10:35 am

The end of ‘cash’ money. They will use the explaination/excuse of counterfeiters, drug dealers, and tax evaders needing to be thwarted. One world currency via electronic ‘chits’ would give David Rockefeller a hard-on. Fiat exponential and unlimited.

Stucky
Stucky
November 7, 2012 10:44 am

Y’all forgot about Interest Rates.

At some point in time interest rates MUST reflect reality. Right? Right??? And when that reality hits ……….. KABOOM!!!!

I read somewhere that even a 2% rise in rates (or, was it 1% ?) would result in the entire budget dedicated to interest payments. Like I said ……… KABOOM!!!

One guarantee … a 2% rise in rates will result in MILLIONS more being foreclosed.

Then at some point, people will say enough is enough. The only question remaining; will it be a peaceful or violent revolution?

youcanthavemyglock
youcanthavemyglock
November 7, 2012 10:51 am

TPC, just to get it out of the way, I strongly suggest you get a 9mm handgun, the cost of .40 or 45acp will kill you, plus u can practice more and have a higher mag capacity, now to the manufacturers

smith and wesson: the m&p9 you linked in another thread is good but 9mm m&ps have accuracy issues beyond 15 yards, something about the barrel, not all of them, it’s a hit or miss really, this goes for full size and compact models but not m&p shield, I own a shield, it’s a great little gun. I wouldnt talk u out of an M&P though, they are still very good guns and not all ppl shoot beyond 15 yards to notice this.

glock: dont get a new glock 17 or 19, they have extractor issues, glock 26 is bulletproof though but its tiny, great conceal gun though. if u want a bulletproof glock ,get a used glock 17 or 19 thats made in 2008 or older.

FNH: their new striker fired FNS is nice, it comes in 9 and a 40, they also make hammer fired pistols like FNX which is a nice gun as well, i just like striker fired handguns a lot more.

Walther: PPQ and P99 are superbly engineered handguns and are carried by german police, they also make a subcompact carry gun PPS

Heckler and Koch: these are super expensive but you get what u pay for, you cant go wrong with H&K really, you can get a used USP for a decent price now.

Persnickety
Persnickety
November 7, 2012 10:58 am

We are totally fucked, but would have been just as fucked under Rmoney. In fact Rmoney probably would have had us at war with Iran (as Israel’s bitch) by February. That could still happen anyway, but it was a near certainty with Mr. Magic Underwear.

Mostly I’m pondering which states are going to secede, when, and how successful they will be. I’m thinking more seriously about relocating. Texas is the one that comes up most often, but all I hear about Texas is that it’s turning into California, a once-proud state coming to be dominated by the Free Shit Army. I have more hope for the northern Rockies, but being landlocked is a bit of a problem.

JReuben1 (@JReuben1)
JReuben1 (@JReuben1)
November 7, 2012 11:00 am

2016 – I will probably be glowing dust in the wind – but I promise you fuckers, that I wont go down without a fight!

Persnickety
Persnickety
November 7, 2012 11:01 am

Re: handguns, I agree with almost everything youcanthavemyglock said, except that I find H&K absurdly overpriced for no special quality, and a lot of the most recent (2012) gen4 Glocks are just fine.

Steve Hogan
Steve Hogan
November 7, 2012 11:01 am

On the subject of interest rates, this site http://www.usdebtclock.org states total interest on debt is about $258B on a $16.2T debt. That equates to an average of 1.6%. If we were to see a more realistic rate of say, 10%, that would mean an interest payment of $1.62T. Given that the total revenue collected is roughly $2.3T, interest would consume 2/3rds of the total budget.

Sure seems sustainable to me!

sangell
sangell
November 7, 2012 11:03 am

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youcanthavemyglock
youcanthavemyglock
November 7, 2012 11:22 am

Persnickety, I wish it was true but it’s not, sad part is Glock doesn’t want to admit it, it’s either too expensive to fix it for them at this point or they simply dont know how to fix it.
These extractor issues only affect G17 and G19 models, 2009+ for Gen 3 and all Gen 4s. For some people it doesnt occur until 2000 rounds. Some folks think getting hit with brass in the face 2 out 100 rounds is ok, not it’s not ok, Glock fucked up and they are refusing to admit it.
Right now the best solution is to get Apex Tactical extractor, they also make a lot of parts for M&Ps which makes them shoot like a dream.

Mr. Happy
Mr. Happy
November 7, 2012 11:23 am

Haven’t got a clue what will happen. Those decisions have been made and the President will be so instructed by the decision makers. But I’ll say this, you won’t recognize the place…get out now.

Thinker
Thinker
November 7, 2012 11:48 am

This is going to piss off a lot of people here, but it’s crafted with an eye to history and an understanding of how these things go.

Obama’s re-election shows that, no matter how divided we are, a majority of people want the country to head in a given direction. A direction that is vastly different from our history, but each Fourth Turning results in just such a shift. As Matthew Dowd put it this morning, there are still people who “want a Mad Men society in a Modern Family world.”

I predict we will see a larger, more imperial federal government, where elected representatives do less and less and more is accomplished through executive orders. I see government tamping down on those who don’t go along with their program, while those who support the government turn in their family, friends and neighbors. I see an increasingly totalitarian state, whose citizens accept their fate in return for a lifestyle that doesn’t require them to work too hard, think too hard or strive for more than anyone else. In a word, we will be like certain societies in Europe, where people get by with far less, don’t work particularly hard, and are “cared” for, cradle to grave, by the government.

We will deal with fewer resources, far less choice, adequate but not excellent healthcare. We will learn to strive for the status quo instead of exceptionalism and most people will be “happy” with this. It won’t all happen by 2016, but I strongly sense that this is the direction voters set this country on yesterday.

Hollow man
Hollow man
November 7, 2012 11:52 am

Very soon Obama will say give me your guns or go to prison.
The rest of the world will get a good laugh as spoiled clueless americans begin to live a third world life.
Just think of all the crying crime and dying about to happen.
The China man rules. What ya gonns do now unions. The China man cometh.

Hollow man
Hollow man
November 7, 2012 11:59 am

Yep Texas is becoming part of the FSA. Montana, Alasaka, if we do not sell it back to the russians. Rugged cold ass rockies is the place to go.

ecliptix543
ecliptix543
November 7, 2012 12:40 pm

The M&P pistols are pretty good overall for the money. I have a friend down in the Keys that shoots a 9mm M&P for IDPA competition. He had to get new slide rails installed on the frame at around 10k rounds, then right back to the firing line with it. When you think about it, how many recreational or self-defense pistol owners ever get to 10k rounds? Besides, Smith and Wesson has a lifetime warranty, so I wouldn’t worry about owning one. Also, the M&P AR15 Sport is an outstanding value for a well-built rifle in the $600+/- range.

Me personally, I prefer the old trusty Beretta 92. It’s all metal, almost impossible to jam up, lots of easy to get spare parts and aftermarket parts, and they hold their value in case you decide to trade up in the future. You can always find mags for them at gun shows and in discount catalogs – on par with availability for 1911 mags. Flush-fit 18rd mags from MecGar for $23 or 20rd for about $28. It’s hard to go wrong with 20+1 (my current combo).

Thinker
Thinker
November 7, 2012 12:40 pm

Agree, Jim. I tried to downplay the violent nature of it, but firmly believe that the government will become more despotic, more totalitarian and that many people will be lost in the fight. We all know that the majority of people will never understand what is involved in such a transition, which is why they will accept the violence, in the same way the Europeans first did. When they realize that those systems are unsustainable, they’re going to have quite an awakening.

Thinker
Thinker
November 7, 2012 12:50 pm

I should have also likened it to the results of the last Fourth Turning here… not everyone wanted to go along with the New Deal and the resulting government programs like Social Security, but we got it anyway. And it’s as unsustainable as anything.

While it’s clear people want more and more of that, I truly don’t believe they have any grasp of what it actually means.

Tator
Tator
November 7, 2012 12:57 pm

The economy will continue to tank. The press and Obama will blame the Republicans in the House. In 2014 the Democrats will take the House and gain more in the Senate…then hold on for styff we never dreamed possible in America.

Der Scheisskerl
Der Scheisskerl
November 7, 2012 1:12 pm

October 2014: collapse of the US$
rioting in all major metropolitan areas
Martial law
January 2015: president Obama resigns.
since election are no longer possible,
a senior member of the US military assumes
control of the executive branch.

Jon
Jon
November 7, 2012 1:19 pm
OUTTAHERE
OUTTAHERE
November 7, 2012 1:35 pm

There’s a Tsunami of Shit Storms headed our way, no doubt. Take your pick! But what’s going to be important is how we react as a country. Are we going to resist or just roll over and accept whatever they want to give us? Whatever and whenever, there will be trigger event in the next 2 years that will signal the beginning of the end of life as we have known it. Community will become more important than ever as we will have to depend on each other for survival in our own little world. There’s still time to do some prepping but it is running out.
It’s down to good vs evil — it’s that simple. Choose your side and your friends carefully and get ready because it’s gonna get UGLY.

Stucky
Stucky
November 7, 2012 1:55 pm

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We’re borrowing money to pay interest on money we’ve already borrowed.

In a decade, federal spending to pay for the interest on America’s debt will exceed total spending on the defense budget by $125 billion, or 20 percent, according to CBO.

In fact, the interest payments are likely to be even higher, since these assumptions are based on the historically low interest rates remaining the same, which is not likely over the course of the next decade.

“If interest rates rise just 1% point above baseline projections, the government would pay an additional $1 trillion in interest payments over ten years.” The projections are based on President Obama’s current budget plan. Overall, his budget would increase federal spending 58% – from a budget size of $3.6 trillion today to $5.9 trillion in 2022.

flash
flash
November 7, 2012 1:55 pm

card802 says: May move to Texas, as they will probably secede.

Stay out of Texas. The state may leave the union , but it will be based more on demographics than freedom loving lutzs

Consider the Adirondacks in NY state for safety in sameness.

http://www.resist.com/CWII.pdf

flash
flash
November 7, 2012 1:58 pm

I wonder if any one capable was around to administer first aid when AWD heard the news?

Dan
Dan
November 7, 2012 2:06 pm

Not sure what America will look like but I know in 2016 I will still hate Taylor Swift, so that gives me a little comfort.

Stucky
Stucky
November 7, 2012 2:19 pm

Convicted fraudster Brain Banks is black. I am shocked, I tell you, shocked!

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Stucky
Stucky
November 7, 2012 2:23 pm

Kerry Bentivolio brother is correct …. Kerry looks retarded.
[imgcomment image[/img]

John A
John A
November 7, 2012 2:38 pm

Brian Banks looks like a fine young man. Just what Detroit needs to get turned around and on the path of prosperity again.

Eddie
Eddie
November 7, 2012 2:39 pm

“Bank on BANKS!”

LMFAO!

Lots of material there to work with. How about:

“I was a crook BEFORE I got elected!”

or

“Banks…because that’s where the money is!”

or

“Detroit will never be broke as long as I can write a check!”

Wyoming Mike
Wyoming Mike
November 7, 2012 2:43 pm

Easy, led by the 14th stimulus, jobs are created by the millions paving the way for a Joe Biden presidency! Go Joe!!!!

Hope@ZeroKelvin
Hope@ZeroKelvin
November 7, 2012 2:47 pm

There will be nothing resembling America in 2016, sorry, but that’s the reality. The collapse is baked into the cake now.

We are facing economic collapse in late 2013/early 2014 (if that far off). There is complete gridlock in DC, we are going off the fiscal cliff, business will continue to sit on their hands, the dollar will lose 75% of its value and possibly lose reserve currency status. Unemployment hits 50%, tax revenues to the fed.gov plumment, we have to pay 75 cents of every dollar in interest on our bonds, which no one is buying, just The Bernank printing funny money.

The continued increase in food and fuel prices, caused by declining production + carbon taxes, puts food and fuel prices beyond the reach of most Americans. Serious riots ensue which are put down by the fusion center SWAT LEOs. Suicides by senior citizens increase and are an international embarrassment. Obesity ceases to be a problem (that one is for AWD).

The MENA explodes in war when Iran explodes their nuke, oil spikes even further compounding the global economic pain, Russia/China lock up what is left of global oil production and consumption. The Land of Happy Motoring grinds to a complete stop.

The US electrical grid collapses when the coal industry is bankrupted by the Obama supported UN carbon subsidies. Americans riot when their homes, businesses and hospitals are hit with rolling blackouts. Millions of the elderly, the chronically ill, the disabled and the unprepared die in the dark.

The fed.gov, having lost control of the economy, the energy grid, the food supply and the cities, declares martial law. This is met with armed resistance by the 100 million gun owners and civil war ensues. This is actually a 3 way civil war: The fed.gov versus the gun owners versus the FSA. Millions die.

What was left of the US infrastructure collapses. The fed.gov retreats to the major cities, which become huge FEMA camps, the rest of the country has to fend for itself.

The Union dissolves into zones controlled by the fed.gov or the local warlord.

Elections have consequences, ya’ buddy.

Think that won’t happen? Think Yugoslavia or Argentina. Different precipatiting events, same outcome.

Dan
Dan
November 7, 2012 2:52 pm

In this supposed era of hope, change and forward, my district again re-elected the same piece of shit representative that they have since 1986, which I am sure wont change come 2016. Do you realize that means there are people voting in my district who have known no other representation their entire life and now they themselves continue voting for the same asshole. This lifer incumbent has been in office since the Reagan administration. Our district is in financial ruin and yet we happily and solidly send this gawd damn asshole back to his post where he happily and dutifully continues to fuck his constituents much like Zed in Pulp Fiction.. At this point my goal is to outlive the mother fucker so I can see him out of office in my lifetime, evidently that’s what it’s gonna take.

chiefdarkcloud
chiefdarkcloud
November 7, 2012 2:57 pm

The stock market drop of today 11/7/2012 is just a ‘blip’ on the radar screen compared to what will soon follow :

Our biggest lender and financial savior – China, loses complete faith in the USA and is no longer willing to financially support us (their financial resources can be better used in other parts of the world and at home). Just like a “master” chess player, China has weighed its options carefully and has decided that they are willing to take a two trillion dollar ‘hit’ to teach us and indeed the rest of the world a lesson. Of course this will (as planned) bring the USA to its knees. Russia, India, Brazil, et al provide the bellows to fan the flame.

China announces to the world that they are no longer willing to support the spendthrift ways of the USA (we have had many warnings from China over the past few years on this issue). China then “pulls the plug” on USA Treasury purchases and USA trade deficit financing. All ocean going ships headed to the USA from China are ordered to return home. Within minutes of this announcement all hell breaks out around the entire globe. Commodities stop trading in USA dollars and the stock market crash of September 2008 now looks like a drop in the bucket compared to what is now unfolding.

Here in the USA “emergency” meetings are held with all of the usual players involved. Bennie ‘turbo charges’ the printing presses in a desperate, last ditch effort to ‘save the system’. Bennie becomes the ‘buyer of last resort’ and starts buying up and trying to ‘back stop’ everything. Of course this action was doomed to fail before it even began. In the USA a ‘Bank Holliday’ is declared – ATM’s are shut off, checks cannot be cleared and credit cards no longer work.

Throughout the USA (and around the globe) the unprepared masses go ape shit crazy and all sense of law and order are lost. The Tinder Box of discontent explodes into something that was, only hours ago – unimaginable.

This situation “adds gas to the fire” of societal, financial and governmental break down. All of everything ‘spins out of control’. A new “Dark Age” sets in upon the world.

chiefdarkcloud
chiefdarkcloud
November 7, 2012 3:04 pm

At the risk of being ass fucked and ridiculed by everyone on TBP – The above was written by a 9th grade high school dropout.

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 7, 2012 3:22 pm

I am contemplating my “i told you so” article. It will cover the same ground as many have above. But I think I deserve, for me and my compatriot Smokey, to do some serious gloating, given we called this event 2 years ago, when no one believed us. I am not happy about the result, but it was chrystal clear to me it was going to happen.