Drivers License And Social Security Number, Please

Guest Post by Eric Peters

A weird thing happened to me recently during a traffic stop. The cop demanded the usual stuff – license, registration. But then he demanded one more thing – my Social Security number.SS card

Under duress,  I gave it to him.   

Maybe you remember when Social Security numbers were “not to be used for purposes of identification.” It actually said so, right there on the card.

Well, it used to.

So much for that. As usual, per the frog in the ever-warming pot of water, we do not notice the change until it is too late to change anything.

Our SS number is now the de facto – and in a very real sense, the de jure – national ID. De facto, because it’s almost impossible to transact any business without one. De jure, because the law increasingly does require it for purposes of identification, even though the original law said it never would be used for such purposes.

But why be worried (as opposed to merely irritated) about being forced to cough up one’s Social Security number over a routine traffic stop?

Let’s count the ways.

First, there’s very real potential for identity theft – possibly, by the cop who issued you the ticket … or perhaps a quasi-cop (i.e., a clerk) down at the cop shop who has access to the paperwork. These people may or may not be trustworthy, but we know for certain the government is an epicenter of untrustworthiness. Of incompetence. Especially when it comes to the handling of information that might cause problems if it falls into the wrong hands. This point need not be elaborated any further than it is necessary to belabor the dangers of walking down a slippery sidewalk.SS card old

Keep in mind that since your Social Security number is, in fact, used for purposes of identification – and much more, besides (including credit history) its leakage could cause you problems you don’t even want to know about. And now, it’s written on the back of a traffic ticket that’s probably accessible to scores of potential no-good-niks down at the cop shop.

The other problem relates to the government’s money-lust.

They want your sosh because it’ll be easier to sic debt collectors on you in the event you welsh on what you “owe.” Apparently, there are crafty devils out there with fake licenses who used to “get away” with not handing over the money the government thinks it’s entitled to just snatch from you. But it’s harder to pass off a fake Social Security number – and it’s also much easier to get you to pay up. Even those who do not fear the DMV and its points – or the insurance mafia – will usually cringe when contemplating the prospect of a black mark showing up on their credit report.

The SSN number makes it almost impossible to evade Uncle. And that is precisely the point, from their point-of-view.

Now, technically, the cops are only entitled to ask for your Social Security number – and you are not necessarily obliged to give it.SS card 3

There is something called the Privacy Act of 1974 which reads as follows:

“It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose his social security account number.”  Sec. 7(a)(1).

It sounds reassuring – like the Fourth Amendment’s gabble about no “unreasonable” searches absent “probable cause.” Technically, this is the law. Operationally, you are going to be stopped for no particular reason (e.g., “safety/sobriety checkpoints”) and if you don’t consent to being searched, they’ll find some pretext for doing so (e.g., a dog “alerts” on you/your car)  or at the very least, hassle you to the point that you give in.

Same here.

Technically, you have the right to demand the cop identify the specific law that requires you to provide your Social Security number – and then to specify how, exactly, your Social Security number will be used. The cop will probably not be able to do either. Instead he will cite “the law” (generally) and now the fun begins. In most contests between an armed man and an unarmed victim, the armed man typically emerges the victor.tarffic stop pic

First, you’re under duress (a concept Clovers do not grok).

Most people are rightly nervous when dealing with an armed goon. Arguing with him over what “the law” is will have the same effect on the cop that making funny faces at an ape behind bars usually does.

Only the “ape” in this case is not behind bars.

If you decline to provide your SSN, the odds are very good that – minimally – you will be “detained” until such time as they can “confirm by some other method” (got that from the horse’s mouth) that you are really you – which is what they will usually claim they need the SSN for.

In other words, the SSN is now officially being used for purposes of identification – just as they (the authors of Social Security, all those years ago) swore up and down it never would be. It was only going to be a government social insurance program, to keep old folks from shivering and starving in the winter. Never to be the basis for a nationwide cattle-cataloging system.

Surprise, surprise.

They lied.

Again.

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15 Comments
Wip
Wip
December 9, 2015 9:24 am

People need to start having child births at home. En mass.

Maggie
Maggie
December 9, 2015 9:26 am

I don’t carry my card and I can’t remember the string of numbers. Oops. I do, however, remember my ex-husband’s SSN for some reason. Waiting for payback, I guess.

TC
TC
December 9, 2015 9:29 am

An ex coworker of mine was a big anti-SSN guy and pretty much refused to give it to anyone, even our employer. That dude spent half the fucking day arguing with various people about it. Think about who has your SSN – everyone you have any sort of financial transaction with. Staggering.

zelmer
zelmer
December 9, 2015 9:39 am

With the cop asking for your SSN implies that he has some way of checking it on the spot to verify identity similar to looking up your driver’s license. If he wrote it on back of some paper then it means that he or someone later will rifle through the paper he has written it on to look something up. It seems to me that they just want for future reference if your name comes up again like, as you said, for collection purposes over some future fines.

And if they enter this stuff into a computer now you have deal with hackers breaking in.

Anonymous
Anonymous
December 9, 2015 9:44 am

When someone demands my SS number for some reason or other and promises it will remain private I always give it but with several of the numbers transposed.

If anything comes of a check on it, a court case can be built on it not remaining private and the check was done without my permission.

And if it involves LE I usually decline to give it -OK, so I’ve only been asked once over twenty years ago so “usually” doesn’t mean much- but faulty memory with transposed numbers and a statement that you are reciting it from memory would always be an adequate defense if anything were to come of it.

FWIW, your drivers license is most likely linked to your number anyway, I don’t know of any State that doesn’t do this.

Desertrat
Desertrat
December 9, 2015 10:47 am

Military serial numbers, nowadays, are the SS#. So, every letter to and from military folks show the number on the address or return address.

Some years back, Texas went to using the SS# for the Driver’s License #. And you have to provide the SS# in order to get a hunting or fishing license.

Credit
Credit
December 9, 2015 11:17 am

“Under duress, I gave it to him.”

you big pussy! you do a disservice to all of us. next time say “no” or “i don’t have it memorized or ” i refuse to answer any questions without my attorney present,”, but don’t roll over like a submissive dog!

kokoda
kokoda
December 9, 2015 11:22 am

DMV has your SS #, so LE inquires to the computer from your driver’s license (they always seem to take the license and walk back to the police car and then you wait) and the SS # will show up. They don’t need the verbal # from you.

Brian
Brian
December 9, 2015 11:46 am

de jure money is that which is issued directly by the Treasury.
de facto money is that which is issued by anything other than the Treasury (Federal Reserve)

The reason it is nearly impossible to transact business without a SSN is because the majority of people use the de facto money. Hence the de facto treatment of the SSN as identification.

Lysander
Lysander
December 9, 2015 12:45 pm

The REAL ID Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109–13
119 Stat. 302
Enacted May 11, 2005, was an Act of Congress that modified U.S. federal law pertaining to security, authentication, and issuance procedures standards for the state driver’s licenses and identification (ID) cards, as well as various immigration issues pertaining to terrorism.

The law sets forth requirements for state driver’s licenses and ID cards to be accepted by the federal government for “official purposes”, as defined by the Secretary of Homeland Security. The Secretary of Homeland Security has currently defined “official purposes” as presenting state driver’s licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants, although the law gives the Secretary the unlimited authority to require a “federal identification” for any other purposes that the Secretary shall determine.

The REAL ID Act implements the following:

Title II of the act establishes new federal standards for state-issued driver licenses and non-driver identification cards.
Changing visa limits for temporary workers, nurses, and Australian citizens.
Funding some reports and pilot projects related to border security.
Introducing rules covering “delivery bonds” (similar to bail bonds but for aliens who have been released pending hearings).
Updating and tightening the laws on application for asylum and deportation of aliens for terrorist activity.
Waiving laws that interfere with construction of physical barriers at the borders.

On December 20, 2013, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced that implementation of Phase 1 would begin on January 20, 2014, which followed a yearlong period of “deferred enforcement”. There are four planned phases, three of which apply to areas that affect relatively few U.S. citizens—e.g., DHS headquarters, nuclear power plants, and restricted and semi-restricted federal facilities. The timeline for Phase 4, which applies to boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, will be determined after DHS conducts an evaluation of how the first three phases were implemented. To “ensure that the public has ample advanced [sic] notice”, DHS says that Phase 4 will not be implemented before January 1, 2016. As of October 2015, 23 states or territories are compliant, 31 have been granted extensions, and two are noncompliant.

The above is from Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

In CT it is mandatory by 2017 on all new DL. I just renewed mine and got it. You need to bring in your birth certificate; SS card; pay stub or evidence of how you subsist, like EBT, SSI, etc; two bills that have your address on it- it could be your utility bill or your apartment lease agreement or cable; and your soul, which will be photocopied and returned to you.

Have a nice day and Seig Heil!

bb
bb
December 9, 2015 1:59 pm

I bought another rifle recently and I didn’t have to give my SS number. I don’t remember ever having to give my SS number to buy a gun.Law enforcement probably has it anyway.

AnthonyH
AnthonyH
December 9, 2015 3:51 pm

THE CURIOUS THING ABOUT THE ss CARD is that there is no requirement that anyone obtain one. The only compulsion regarding the card/number is laid on the Commissioner to issue one to any of five different “individuals”.
So, now we must learn the legal definition of “individual” as it relates to Title 42 (Social Security): and it is, “a resident alien or a citizen of the US”.
Now, let’s look at Title 42, section 1982,”every citizen of the US shall have the same rights… as are enjoyed by white citizens.”
In other words, a “US citizen” is not a “white citizen”; the former is a “black citizen”; and this distinction is constitutional.
Oh, by the way, you may have noticed, the income tax is imposed on the income of every “individual”.
Since a “white citizen” is not legally included in the definition of “individual”, he is not subject to the income tax.
This is how the law is written; its enforcement, however, is quite another matter.
Don’t act on this knowledge until you have done due diligence, and well-protected your property. (http://redressone.wordpress.com/plantation-america/)

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
December 9, 2015 4:25 pm

I’m all for personal privacy and when asked for my SSN for ID purposes I usually decline and usually a secondary form of ID will suffice. Can’t say I’ve ever been asked for it by LEO.

But I’ll betcha everyone reading this HAS been asked to show your driver’s license when using a credit card, which is against Visa’s rules and as I recall MC and Amex as well. So long as you’ve signed the back of the card, merchants are NOT allowed to demand a secondary form of ID.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
December 9, 2015 5:28 pm

Who carries their SS card? I’ve never once been asked for my SS card by anyone including banks and the military. The freaking military uses SSN for everything and they never asked for the actual card, just SSN.

Don’t carry the card and claim you don’t have the number memorized. Your SSN is simply your slave ID number for the central bankers. And you thought they abolished slavery! They simply made it all inclusive.

Brian
Brian
December 9, 2015 10:59 pm

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