And the Winner is …… Hydro Flask!

Guest Post by Dan Fauth

When I wrote my previous paper “The Hydro Flask Challenge to Anthropogenic Climate Change” (link: https://climateofsophistry.com/2016/04/06/the-hydro-flask-challenge-to-anthropogenic-climate-change ), I didn’t expect to write a sequel to the article. During the writing of that article I experienced one of those “light bulb” moments.  My epiphany occurred when I postulated that a Hydro Flask with hot liquid inside should cool slower if it is upside down rather than right side up. If this doesn’t make sense to you, you should read or re-read the article. This postulate is not the epiphany; it will become obvious in the paragraphs that follow.

One of the strengths of science can be stated as follows: “You may conduct 10 thousand experiments and not prove a theory correct, but you can conduct one experiment and prove that theory wrong”.

That being said, within the realm of science we have certain Laws.  You may wonder how a theory gets to become a Law.  I did and the answer is pretty odd.  As it turns out, over time failure to prove a theory wrong can lead to it becoming a Law of Science.  Some examples are The Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, The Inverse Square Law of Gravitation and the Laws of Thermodynamics.  Thousands if not millions of experiments have been performed and not one has disproven these laws.  So we can see that the Laws of Science are created by a process of unanimous consensus among scientists.

We’ve all heard the mantra that has become one of the main pillars of support for the theory of Anthropogenic Climate Change (ACC), “97% of scientists agree that the climate is changing and man, as a result of burning fossil fuels, is the culprit”.  Again, if you haven’t yet read “The Hydro Flask Challenge to Anthropogenic Climate Change” please read it now.  That paper explains that the “Radiative Greenhouse Effect (RGHE)” is the foundational theory on which ACC depends.  If that theory were proven false, the whole notion of man-caused climate change due to excessive CO2 and methane emissions just falls apart.  Conversely if we can get to a 100% consensus or in other words unanimous agreement among scientists on this issue, then we can rename the theory of the radiative greenhouse effect the “Law of the Radiative Greenhouse Effect”.

This will not happen and the reason is that the theory of the RGHE has already been proven false.  In 1909, Professor Robert Wood conducted a series of experiments which empirically demonstrated that the RGHE does not exist.  More recent experiments appear to be lacking in the scientific literature, so the learnings of that bygone era have largely faded into the mists of time and though previously disproven, the theory of the RGHE still manages to sustain the ACC meme.

The Hydro Flask is about to destroy this foundation of Anthropogenic Climate Change.  As you learned in my previous paper, surface cooling of planet Earth and rejection of the daily solar heat load back to space in order to keep earthly temperatures in balance utilizes four techniques.  The most efficient of these is evaporation which cools the waters which compose about 70% of the Earth’s surface.  Even much of the solid surface contains moisture, so evaporative cooling is also prevalent on solid ground.  The exceptions are the desert areas and frozen areas.  The next most efficient mechanism for surface cooling is conduction which when present in fluid containing systems, such as our atmosphere, initiates convection which greatly enhances the effectiveness of conduction.  Radiation is also of utmost importance in maintaining the Earth’s temperature balance, but it is utilized to a significant degree only outside of the biosphere where life on Earth resides. This radiative cooling primarily occurs in the upper and outer portions of our atmosphere where thermal molecular contact is lost due to the greatly reduced density of air as the atmosphere gradually gives way to the vacuum of space.

Let’s examine how NASA, the IPCC and all of the other governmental purveyors of climate change alarm twist language to fool the public into believing in the RGHE and ACC.  Here’s a prime example in just one sentence: Much of the energy absorbed at the Earth’s surface is radiated upward as infrared (IR) thermal energy”.

Link: (http://icp.giss.nasa.gov/education/methane/intro/greenhouse.html )

Allegedly NASA and NOAA have satellites and surface based instrumentation that supports this statement. How would a common independent scientist ever hope to refute this simple statement containing that most important technical term “Much”.

Now to help clarify what “Much” might mean, let’s examine NASA’s Earth’s energy budget shown below. This diagram shows 163.3 watts/m2 of sunshine warming the Earth’s surface and 340.3 watts/m2 back-radiating to the Earth’s surface for a total power input of 503.6 watts/m2. You may think this is a misprint since “back radiation” provides more than twice the surface heat input from the sun.   Outgoing from the surface we have 18.4 watts/m2 shown as thermals (this would be conduction/convection) and 86.4 watts/m2 as latent heat (evaporation) and the remainder 398.2 watts/m2 as radiation.  So, for the NASA diagram “much” would mean that 79% of the Earth’s surface heat is emitted as infrared radiation.

This energy budget does not appear to fit the hierarchy and efficiencies of the heat transfer techniques as I have previously described.  Something is clearly out of whack!

This is where the Hydro Flask may shed some light.  You may recall from my earlier article the following paragraphs:

“Liquids are less dense at higher temperatures, so with coffee, the hottest coffee is at the top. As the coffee cools from heat conduction at the top of the flask, this cooling effect causes the top layer of coffee to become denser, so it moves toward the bottom of the flask.  Convection has been induced in the coffee.  As described previously, this convection enhances the heat transfer efficiency dramatically by always keeping the hottest coffee at the top.

With the cold beer, the warmest part of the beer is at the top as with the coffee, but the “warm” beer is becoming warmer, so it doesn’t sink and initiate convection. The warmest part of the beer stays put and doesn’t enhance cooling of the beer. Thus the beer stays cold much longer than the coffee stays hot.

The implication here is that if you turn your coffee flask upside down, so that the hottest least dense coffee is at the top, which is now the bottom of the flask next to the vacuum, the coffee should stay hot for much longer because you have stopped convection in its tracks.  Using this technique, you may get many more hours of hot coffee available to you.  The physics says this will work. Try it and see!”

The 40 ounce Hydro Flask has an outer shell that is 3.6 inch (9.2 cm) diameter x 10.8 inches (27.4 cm) tall.  The inner shell is connected to the outer shell only at the top rim with a vacuum existing between the inner and out walls.  The only area where conduction can take place is at the top rim and the flask stopper, which is made of low conductivity plastic.  Based on these dimensions, the conductive surface area compared to the area adjacent to the vacuum space is only about 7% of the total surface area of the Hydro Flask.

My postulate that the upside-down Hydro Flask will retain heat measurably better than the right side-up Hydro Flask can only be true if the amount of radiant heat transferred across the vacuum is very small compared to the amount of conductive heat transfer.  There it is: The Epiphany! You may recognize that in this experiment we have tricked radiant infrared heat into separating itself from conductive heat transfer by presenting two distinctly separate options for heat transfer out of the Hydro Flask. Conduction can only use the conductive surfaces composing 7% of the surface area and radiation can only cross the vacuum gap adjoining 93% of the surface area.  So, if we find a significant temperature difference in spite of the small window for conductive heat transfer compared to the large window for radiation, it will demonstrate that thermal conduction is a vastly more dominant means of heat transfer at ambient Earth temperatures than radiant heating.

You can perform this experiment in your own kitchen.  All it takes is two identical Hydro Flasks, a pot of heated water, two ceramic dinner plates and a candy thermometer.

The experiment is as follows:

  1. Heat the pot of water to boiling.
  2. Preheat the Hydro Flasks with hot tap water or boiling water. Allow 5 minutes to heat the inner shell.
  3. Empty the Hydro Flasks and immediately fill them to brim with boiling hot water.
  4. Measure the water temperature in each flask and record the time and temperature. Close the flask stoppers securely.
  5. Place each flask on a plate, one right side up and one upside down. The plates are good thermal insulators and will help to thermally isolate the flasks from more conductive surfaces such as kitchen counter tops.
  6. After the desired amount of time, place both flasks right side up for a few minutes to allow the hottest, least dense water in the upside down flask time to rise to the top.
  7. Measure the temperature in each flask and record the time and temperature.

At the elevation where I live in Colorado, 6800 feet above sea level, water boils at 199 0F (93 C).  Immediately before filling my pre-warmed 40 oz. Hydro Flasks with the hot water, I stirred the boiling water to try to homogenize it.  Upon filling the two flasks, the initial temperature was 1920F (89 C) in each flask.  After 25 hours, I righted the upside down flask and the results were as follows: Right side up flask: 104.20F (40.1 C); Upside down flask: 114.80F (46.0 C).  Astonishing; a 10.4 0F (5.9 C) difference!

I conducted this experiment several more times, one time switching the Hydro Flasks to make sure that the result was not caused by some quality control issue in the Hydro Flasks.  The results were consistent.  For the second test run, I checked the temperatures after only 3 hours, and found that the temperature differential was already 8 0F (4.4 C).  I conducted a third test run starting at only 147 0F (63.9 C) closer to typical hot coffee temperatures.  In this case, after just three hours the temperature differential between the upside down flask and the right side up flask was 4.5 0F (2.5 C) with the upside down flask temperature having only dropped 8 0F (4.4 C) to 139 0F (59.2 C).

You may be aware that the higher the starting temperature differential between the hotter source and the cooler receptor, in this case the air outside the Hydro Flask, the greater the driving force to equalize temperatures, hence the greater temperature differentials observed after starting with boiling water compared to the differentials starting with hot coffee temperatures.

As I pointed out in my previous paper, the deception which is used to trick you into believing the theory of the radiative greenhouse effect demands your belief that much” (79%!) “of the energy absorbed at the Earth’s surface is radiated upward as infrared (IR) thermal energy”.

If this is a false statement and infrared thermal energy is not substantially emitted by the Earth’s surface, then the radiative greenhouse effect, even if it didn’t violate the Laws of Thermodynamics (which it does; and why is this so hard to understand?), cannot exist and likewise ACC.

Now you must ask yourself, if water at very near the boiling point doesn’t have the ability to generate infrared radiation capable of crossing the tiny vacuum gap of the Hydro Flask, is it possible that land and oceans with surface temperatures typically less than 100 0F (38 C) can emit 79% of the surface thermal energy in the form of infrared radiation?  Of course not!

With that being said, let me repeat some of my closing statement from my earlier paper: “Within the troposphere, evaporation/condensation, conduction and convection rule our climate, and no greenhouse effect is remotely possible or needed.

The Hydro Flask again reveals the deception hidden within the Anthropogenic Global Climate Change swindle.

Game, Set and Match.  The winner ….. HYDRO FLASK!

My previous paper generated some comments and I believe it is worth repeating my response to an important theme here.  The insidious degree to which unscientific nonsense has permeated the climate change narrative is simply astonishing to behold and it would not have been possible without the conspiracy of silence among most of the world’s scientists.  For the government bureaucracies, the media, the attorneys and the financial sector, lying for power and financial gain is something of an art form.  We have come to expect it. For the scientific community, not so much and I’m truly disappointed.

This is my explanation as to how the scientific community has been co-opted:

“Several off-line commenters have expressed some discomfort with my statement: “All of the fear mongering government agencies and university science departments whose funding is dependent on this climate of fear ….”  My insinuation here is clearly that government agency personnel and university scientists have sacrificed their integrity for a paycheck.  The belief system that I have challenged is that scientists in matters of personal integrity should be placed on a pedestal well above the politicians, lawyers, bankers and car salesmen who we know from experience should not be fully trusted. It is impossible to put yourself in the place of a climate change beneficiary, but we can try.

Here’s one fictitious example: Let’s pretend that I’m a climate scientist fresh out of school with a Ph.D. in atmospheric chemistry.  NASA has hired me at good pay and my first project is investigating the “Methane Hot Spot” in the San Juan Natural Gas Basin of northern New Mexico. I love my work and I’m good at it.  I enjoy the select company of my highly trained peers from NOAA and other government agencies. The “Radiative Greenhouse Effect (RGHE)” is the foundation upon which all anthropogenic climate change is structured.  We don’t talk about it, we don’t discuss it, and it’s not even included in our Physics text books.  It is the goose that laid our golden egg.  The government is handing over boatloads of tax dollars that if not spent on science would otherwise be squandered on other lesser pursuits.  If I admit the fraudulent nature of carbon based climate change, I’ll be labeled a heretic, my co-workers will hate me and I’ll likely lose my job.  All I have to do is keep quiet.  I am not about to bite the hand that feeds me.

Now me talking: “I don’t know that I would act differently.”  Since I’m not in their position, I don’t have a problem tackling the falsity of the RGHE and climate change.  I’m standing up for Science, but that doesn’t mean I have more integrity.  I just have less to lose.

By Dan Fauth,

Independent Scientist and Engineer

April 12, 2016

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34 Comments
Araven
Araven
April 16, 2016 2:19 pm

Thanks for your Hydro Flask posts, Dan! I really enjoyed them and learned something as well.

Ed
Ed
April 16, 2016 2:37 pm

Interestingly, the random quote in the margin when I read this was:

“People’s minds are changed through observation and not through argument.
— Will Rogers”

You provided readers with an experiment by which they can observe. Way to go, Dan. Good work.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 2:37 pm

It certainly looks as though the moon radiates 90% of the thermal energy it receives. Since it has no atmosphere to slow down light or disperse it, It looks yellow like the sun.

Earth appears blue due to the atmosphere. If it were not radiating the solar energy, daytime would be darker. Summertime, we get more sunlight and the days are considerably brighter which is favorable for plant growth. If the earth surface absorbed much of the light, plants would not grow.

Clouds also bounce the radiation back to the surface and can give you a worse sunburn than you expected on a clear day.

kokoda
kokoda
April 16, 2016 2:55 pm

Ddan….if you haven’t already sent your two article to Heartland and a few highly respected skeptic scientists (and I’m surprised you didn’t mention whether you did or not), please do so.

Confirmation at a high level is needed.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 2:57 pm

“The implication here is that if you turn your coffee flask upside down, so that the hottest least dense coffee is at the top, which is now the bottom of the flask next to the vacuum, the coffee should stay hot for much longer because you have stopped convection in its tracks.”

Uhm.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 3:02 pm

If you use an infrared cam, you can see humans radiate internal heat in this manner more efficiently than thermal conduction.

durangodan
durangodan
April 16, 2016 3:04 pm

Thanks you guys. Great Will Rogers quote. The moon with no atmosphere has very shallow surface heat absorption and cools easily with just radiation. So unlike the Earth with oceans and atmosphere providing thermal capacitance.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 16, 2016 3:33 pm

FR, If you have another explanation for the reduced cooling (10 F is a lot) with the upside down Hydro Flask I’m open to it. On the IR, the visual range for our eyes is quite limited and IR cameras process the heat signal from the relatively warm object to enable us to view it. I believe we are seeing the effect of the heat differential, not necessarily IR itself. I have FLIR camera training coming up in mid May and I should know a lot more about the operating principles after that. Sorry I can’t be more specific at this time. I’m planning to write a paper on the Mysterious Nature of Light soon and I’ll further address this issue in it. Thanks.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 3:45 pm

I read that snakes see infrared ‘light’.

Mysterious Nature of Light

I will be looking forward to that! Please tell me how light travels in a vacuum. Like noise in the forest, I wonder if it is visible.

The astronauts said they did not see stars while they were on the moon in full daylight. Maybe it was because they had gold coated visors or the sun’s light drowned the star’s light out.

Does our atmosphere play a role on making light visible or do our eyes simply detect the right frequency range?

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 16, 2016 3:47 pm

kokoda, I’m fairly skeptical about alleged climate skeptic sites. The violation of the Laws of Thermodynamics is obvious when it comes to the RGHE and you can’t make a case for AGW without it. This leads to the logical conclusion that even the “apparent” skeptic websites are not trying to kill the theory of AGW. These sites are nothing more than “gatekeepers” intent on keeping the debate alive. I know this is true with WattsUpWithThat.com, just as an example. Once again it’s all about the money. I know this sounds very conspiracy theory, but that’s been my experience. If you know any one or any organizations that you know from personal experience are trustworthy please send them links. Thanks.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 16, 2016 3:50 pm

FR, You are on the same page. Your examples are what got me interested in the subject. At this time, I suspect that in space you can see no stars including the sun. The EMR needs to be “processed” by our atmosphere to convert to visual range. Makes sense but not much info out there.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 3:55 pm

Quasars.

Did you hear any more about the two women who discovered a radio signal with some sort of intelligence on it? It was all chirpy and then somebody must have pointed out that is the characteristic of electromagnetism

kokoda
kokoda
April 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Dan…your reply was BS. I gave you Heartland (Institute). You can contact them and ask who are the few that are very knowledgeable in the specific area you are addressing.

It seems that you don’t even want to try to go further. I am distrustful of your citations based on that. And, I am not a skeptic, I am a full-blown Denier of the political ideology masquerading as science, and very poor science at that.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 16, 2016 6:27 pm

kokoda, My science is solid and uncomplicated. How do you explain the failure of well funded NGOs such as Heartland to kill off the theory of AGW once and for all? I sure can’t except as I described. We are talking about a $1.5 Trillion per year lie. Any ideas?

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 16, 2016 6:37 pm

Kokoda, Perhaps you miss the whole point of my two articles. My objective was to put in terms that people of average or perhaps slightly above average intelligence can understand just how our planet is heated and cooled without the need or even the possibility of the AGHE. I’m not interested in peer review, pal review or however you want to characterize it. The beauty of the Hydro Flask example and experiment is that people can actually experience some facets of thermodynamics and perhaps understand that the lies the government “scientists” tell are utterly ridiculous. My hope is that they get angry for having been made fools of and start to say “No More”! That’s all. My work is done.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
April 16, 2016 6:39 pm

I wrote this a bit late over on the previous flask post in response to mike in ga.

It seems to me that best possible thing for all living creatures including our own offspring as well as the planet is to do what benefits ALL OF IT. Who the fuck could argue with that besides power and money hungry tyrants? Our species is well and truly doomed.

mike in ga said:
“We had best start thinking about how we are going to deal with what’s going on and how to minimize the coastal flooding, loss of NYC, Miami and the homes of some 13 million plus citizens by 2100 rather than fizzle and fart around arguing what, why and how””

Fuck that! Just let nature take it’s course. Quit trying to live beyond your means. Let the “haves” who get flooded out become the “have nots” for awhile. Learn from the hard knocks that life is so fond of handing out. It balances out because those that were a few blocks from the shore previously now have an ocean front view for awhile. It’s the circle of life.

Man’s pitiful and arrogant attempts to halt nature by living beyond our means in every possible way is what causes many of the problems we currently have. We are our own worst enemy. Why not save a few resources for humanities children and grand children? Why not consume to the level of our need rather than luxury? Would that not be the best thing for all life and the only home we know? A win-win is just not good enough for us I guess.

I should add that the alternative is to continue to breed, consume and excrete exponentially until we’ve turned the place into a smoldering shit pile unfit for habitation. I often wonder about the meaning of life and what the goal may be or if there even is a goal. I’m inevitably jolted back into a reality that for sure and certain cannot be the goal. Please tell me that the last 4000 years or so of human endeavor is not indicative of the goal,……. if there is one of course.

Sometime back T4C posted some theory or story that indicated that Earth is a prison planet and that the physical lifeforms that life “inhabits” is part of our punishment. Our true form is infinite and can travel the universe at will. Supposedly, when we die we are drawn towards a bright light but that light is supposedly a trap intended to keep us imprisoned in a physical body here on Earth via re-birth. I’ve pretty much decided that when my time comes I’m going to be sportin’ one of the rear view mirrors worn by cyclists and I’m going to turn around and run like hell straight into the darkness and just see where I end up. I’ve always been able to see better with the light at my back anyway!

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 6:57 pm

Just go towards the light, you moth eaten fleabag.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
April 16, 2016 7:21 pm

Now that I know the true identity of your aptly descriptive moniker the S/N ration will once again improve as I ignore the worm infested cerebral feces from El Assclown Extraordinaire! Keep swinging for the fences Corky!

I did make it about a year without knowingly reading your comments. Almost no one quoted you so that helped. Go ahead, wrap your lips around my schlong and give me a down vote. I’m in your head, I own you. Proof in…5…4…3…2…….

susanna
susanna
April 16, 2016 8:34 pm

@DD,

I liked your post, your experiment, and reading your theory.

It is a long road to becoming a grant sponsored university scientist.
Maybe too long to call out the boss and cry foul.

There are many ways to identify what is fouling our planet. We know
pollution is harmful, but in “unregulated” developing countries corporations
are free to dump any old toxic sludge into the soils and the waters…and they
do. For profit. Why cleanup after yourself…that costs $. The oceans are
used for a dumping ground. Toxic tests here there and everywhere. Some would
argue the land and water are irreparably fouled now. And now the gov.s are
spraying that milky cloud-like crap in the air!! A decade ago Wisconsin sprayed
some antibiotic mist? in the air over farms to “vaccinate/inhalation” cows…as that
would be cheaper than enforcing their vac. program the “experts” insisted upon.
The sprayers are admitting it too…to reduce global warming they say. And controlling
the weather, and enhancing communications for the military, etc. etc.

So what is my point anyway? Taxing people for ACC may not be “appropriate”…
and being a climate denier may soon be the rationale for a cage, you criminal
you/me/anyone.

@IS
You have a great point about luxury. Leave the “luxury” to the rich. Aspirations
to consume ever more, and more…can result in a very shallow life. I have a view of
luxury…dishes are done and I get to sit on the porch with my pets, a deserved
cup of coffee, listening to the birds. Mr. is close, reading a book. Thankfully
“cable TV” is gone forever. No shite TV at all. Consumer “economy” = a morally
bankrupt economy.

Thanks, Suzanna

Suzanna
Suzanna
April 16, 2016 8:51 pm

And furthermore:

https://youtu.be/FHttfbmFJ_s

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
April 16, 2016 9:23 pm

Face it guys, globull warming is real, the sea levels are rising (ask the people in Miami Beach), and the Pacific Ocean is about dead.

Denying that it’s happening is like sticking your head in the sand. Go ahead if you want to, but I’m with the “let’s try to do something” crowd. First step is admitting we have a problem. Don’t wait until you’re gasping for breath.

Sonic
Sonic
April 16, 2016 9:33 pm

Dan, one big hole I see in your logic is that by the law of conservation of energy the Earth must re-radiate the same amount of heat as it receives or it will heat up or cool down. That means that the total heat absorbed and the total heat radiated are equal over the measured time frame. That doesn’t mean that as Earth approaches perigee it won’t get hotter as the total heat increases or vice versa at apogee. It means that over the entire cycle the radiated heat must equal the absorbed heat or the total heat will change. Put in those terms it doesn’t much matter what is going on with conduction or convection. Those changes are just in the local system. AGW specifically says that the total heat is changing.

Proponents of AGW say that the total heat is changing because human behavior is changing the ratio of heat absorbed to heat radiated. Even if that ratio changed by only a small number then the aggregate change would be noticeable. How much the ratio changed would drive how fast the change happened. Could this be because of carbon dioxide, methane, or other “greenhouse” gasses? Maybe. I still think that they would be equally good at reflecting radiant heat inputs as they would reflect radiant heat outputs. Perhaps there is a mechanism at work that I don’t know anything about that works differently.

I like your experiment, and as far as your experiment is concerned I think that you’re spot on when it comes to vacuum flasks. I don’t think that a flask is a sufficient analog for the total energy change the Earth experiences because the primary drivers identified by your experiment are entirely local effects at the planetary level. They change where the heat is located (in the atmosphere vs on the ground), but they can’t change the total heat in the system. In this case *only* radiation can change if the energy (heat) remains inside the system or leaves.

Thoughts?

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
April 17, 2016 2:29 am

Susanna said:
“@IS You have a great point about luxury. Leave the “luxury” to the rich.”

My point was that we ALL live within our needs. Fuck the rich. Being rich doesn’t mean you get to fritter away more resources than anyone else in my utopia especially since they’re breeding as well.

It’s a moot point anyway, we passed that fork in the road waayyy back. We chose the magical smoking shit pile fork. My utopia is unfolding in another universe. Maybe running towards the dark will get me there?

You’re right too, it’s the simple things that make us happy.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
April 17, 2016 2:37 am

Westcoaster says:
“Face it guys, globull warming is real, the sea levels are rising (ask the people in Miami Beach),”

Do you have credible evidence that the land is not subsiding? Florida is sitting on a giant patch of sedimentary rock that is eroding by way of sinkholes. The rock under them is literally being dissolved into liquid.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 17, 2016 11:45 am

Looks like this thread has largely run its course. Hopefully you now know that AGW much like the deception regarding financial fraud is based on accounting fraud. In addition to the mis-portrayal of the mechanisms of heat transfer within the troposphere, much of the deception by the climate alarmists is achieved by exclusive use of temperature as a means of portraying “thermal energy content”. You are all familiar with the “urban heat island effect” where historical temperature monitoring sites have had their surrounding environments modified by appurtenances which do not hold water, with the net effect that local relative humidity is severely diminished. As such the diurnal temperature swings including high temperature records are greatly amplified. Witness the difference between rain forest temperature and desert temperatures. Quite dramatic, but I’m guessing that the lower rainforest temperature air actually contains the same or even more “thermal energy”. So, a true measure of the thermal energy content of a given volume of air must include relative humidity. I theorize that if historical temperature records were “corrected” to include the latent heat of the water present, the new data which could be labeled “atmospheric heat content” rather than just temperature, would tell an entirely different story.

starfcker
starfcker
April 17, 2016 2:26 pm

Come on westy, you’ve been watching too many MSNBC stories about Miami beach. Miami Beach was a mangrove swamp. They filled it by dredging biscayne bay. On the southwest end, they didn’t fill it enough. Every year for the past fifty years, when you get the king tides, alton road south of 17th St floods. It is very expensive to raise the grade in densely populated areas. Global warming funds are the most available, with the caveat you have to play along. So they do. Miami Beach isn’t sinking, receding, nothing.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 17, 2016 4:03 pm

IndenturedServant says: Go ahead, wrap your lips around my schlong and give me a down vote. I’m in your head, I own you. Proof in…5…4…3…2…….

Our middle school teacher said he could hypnotize us. ‘I can make you do what I say; don’t think of a pink elephant.’

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
April 17, 2016 4:54 pm

Durango Dan, unfortunately a shitfest of potential epic proportions has apparently been building for some time on multiple other threads. The shit throwing monkeys are drawn to shitfests like flies to turds. Good threads get overlooked when that happens.

I liked both your articles. I briefly started to look into how the Globull Warmers were gathering past and current temperature data for myself when I saw an official weather station at a local community college where our astronomy club meets. The station began its life out in an open field many decades ago. Over the years it has been surrounded by buildings and black asphalt parking lots. They even paved directly under the station. By luck I’m sure, I discovered that this was one of thousands of stations used to gather data to support their Globull Warming horseshit. I knew instantly that their data is irreparably flawed.

Couple that with the fact that Al Gore’s Carbon Credit Exchange is designed to simply make him and his cronies rich while doing nothing to actually reduce carbon emissions and I was done with the issue in my own mind. Then East Anglia-Gate was exposed and the world began to get a clue but the PR machine is mighty. Only sheep believe in Globull Warming………er Climate Change now. They just re-branded it.

I’ve never been an environmentalist but it doesn’t take a genius to see that we only have one home and it would behoove us to take care of it. There is nothing at all wrong with reducing carbon emissions if only to preserve resources for future generations. Like I posted above, it a moot point. We’ve chosen the smoldering shit pile ending over looking out for our best interests ending. The die is cast. We will continue to breed, consume and excrete until we poison ourselves and destroy the planet. Yeehaw!

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 17, 2016 5:12 pm

You can’t destroy a planet. You can make it unlivable for humanity. The planet’s thin veneer of life will go on. Perhaps the earth will be better off when humans die off. Too bad it had to get to that point.

Sonic
Sonic
April 17, 2016 6:45 pm

@Dan: I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t address my point. Total radiation in = total radiation out if the temp remains the same. Convection and conduction have almost no action to that point other than for heat within the system. AGW specifically points at heat inputs > heat output meaning an aggregate increase in energy. Am I missing something?

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 17, 2016 7:37 pm

Sonic, I just don’t have a precise answer to your point. The “A” in AGW is the fraudulent part. Climate is constantly in flux, primarily due to seasonal variation, random variation in albedo caused by random weather events that can at times cover up to 90% of the US with the white stuff, decadal and longer overlapping cycles of ocean currents, the Milankovich solar cycles, etc. The main point of my articles is to show that CO2, methane and the other anthropogenic additions to our troposphere can’t change the mass of the atmosphere nor its average specific heat capacity and this is what sets the heat balance within the biosphere. And CO2 and methane don’t have special properties (magical unwritten properties) that would allow them to allow them to violate the Laws of Thermodynamics by acting as a secondary heat source to the sun. Water is far and away the driver of climate variation and nothing else comes close. CO2 can’t force water to do anything it doesn’t already do. Forcing is grasping at straws. The 0-4% local variation in atmospheric water vapor says it all. The weather is a beautiful random process. My point on my previous comment that temperature measurements alone discount the importance of latent heat really hits home on the deception that goes into the “average global temperature”. Use of such a descriptor is pure deceit. I don’t expect to end the $1.5 trillion per year tax fraud associated with AGW, but I’ve enjoyed challenging my own understanding of how the world works and I hope you all have enjoyed this journey along with me. Thanks for paricipating. Dan

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