This Long Run Won’t Be Long Enough

Every night, powers that be all over the world recite Keynes’ execrable aphorism to themselves before they go to sleep.

Guest post by Robert Gore at Straight Line Logic

The people running the world’s businesses and governments mostly come from elite business and law schools. Graduates emerge from these programs with well-honed skills in verbalization, public presentation, image management, and strategic conformity, and with a hubristic belief that they are qualified, even entitled, to run large and important institutions.

For all their intelligence, they often lack a nuts-and-bolts understanding of how any particularly institution actually operates, or the qualities of character necessary to inspire basic respect among the people with whom they will work, much less to manage, motivate, or lead them. A few try to remedy their deficiencies. Most are willfully blinded by exaggerated estimations of their own merit, and the praise and confirmation they receive from others of the same stripe.

In either business or government, the lower rungs (constituents being the lowest rung of government) are closer to on-the-ground realities. Open and honest lines of communication to the upper echelon are rare. In light of reprisal risks, most people tell bosses or political functionaries what they want to hear. Most bosses, bureaucrats, and politicians investigate no farther, and craft self-serving narratives to promote what they’re doing.

The genesis of the burgeoning political revolt is the realization that the business-government nexus is not functioning as advertised and is contrary to the interests of the people subjected to it. Much of what the ruling class has done has failed, and failed spectacularly, especially when measured against the hype that promotes it. Hubristic delusion has prevented much of the elite from recognizing either their failures or shattering credibility. They are falling in line for Hillary Clinton, but here too they delude themselves.

Clinton will not be the status quo they know and love because that status quo is doomed. How much longer can the Federal Reserve undermine savings, investment, and production, and reward leveraged speculation with zero and lower interest rates? How long can the government continue to borrow before the Fed is the only buyer of its debt? When will ever-expanding debt and ever-mounting regulations crush the already faltering economy? What will be the point of recognition that there is no way the government can keep all the promises it has made? When will Obamacare and a host of other unaffordable government-provided goods and services be pronounced dead? When will the hope of global domination be abandoned? When does the average Joe and Jane become aware that most of what government has done has been a massive mistake?

These are questions that presume eventual outcomes. It’s astounding that the status quo has been maintained for as long as it has, that the answer to all these questions is: “Not now, but sometime in the future.” While there are a myriad of reasons for the absence of a generally recognizable collapse, three stand out.

Taking debt monetization, interest rate suppression, and asset price promotion to previously undreamed of outer limits, central bankers have also explored new frontiers in economic and financial anesthetization. Pain has its uses, one of which is that the sufferer may take remedial actions to ameliorate or stop it. Financial anesthesia, like the medical variety, masks pain and consequently delays the patient’s healing responses to it. Cheap, abundant fiat debt forestalls necessary but painful deflation, bankruptcies, the repricing of assets, and their transfer from the weak to the strong, and it consigns the economy to the realm of the living dead. How long can such a state of suspended animation last? Japan started anesthetizing and zombifying its economy twenty-six years ago and its economic monitors still register activity, albeit anemic. Now that Japan’s strategy has gone world-wide, nobody really knows how long a global zombie economy can stagger forward.

The remaining productive Americans carry the gorilla of government on their backs. With each new tax, regulation, dollar of debt, unfunded promise, and addition to the rolls of people supported by the government, the gorilla gets heavier. Perversely, at least in the short run, that has diminished the threat to the government that its milk cows balk at the increasingly onerous regime—they are too busy trying to survive it. Furthermore, as the number of producers decreases and the number on the dole increases, the pool of potential resisters shrinks. This cannot go on forever. The Atlases will shrug eventually, or more likely collapse, but until they do the government’s game keeps going.

Finally, the government has its own public-opinion-molding operation and has co-opted most of the “independent” media. One would be hard put to find a single adjustment to the government’s economic statistics production process over the last several decades that has had the effect of increasing either the inflation or the unemployment rate. The “news” Americans get from the mainstream media about the US’s many interventions in foreign lands is laughable: propaganda at best, usually closer to outright fiction. The news Americans don’t get about those interventions, government surveillance, weapons boondoggles, the deep state, crony influence and enrichment, immigration, crime, and the futility of wars on poverty, drugs, and terror fills alternative media websites and books that seldom make bestseller lists. Managing, shaping, and stifling information flows has kept the powers that be in power…and the incurious millions docile.

Hillary Clinton represents the powers’ fingers-crossed hope that their hideous, destined-for-breakdown contraption can be kept going for a few more years. Donald Trump represents the resentment of those who bear the brunt of their increasingly obvious failures. Whoever gets elected, at some point the unsustainable will give way and the powers’ artifices will become manifest liabilities. Which has already occurred with the mainstream media and is in process with the Fed. The media’s blatantly biased coverage of the election has irretrievably shredded its credibility and has probably caused a net addition to the ranks of Trump voters. Faith in the Fed’s nostrums is dwindling as the much touted liftoff never arrives. Fundamentally unsound, debt-saturated economic and financial systems will eventually vomit out a crisis that central bankers can’t fix or forestall.

In the long run reality is reality, not what the powers would like it to be or what they try to con the masses into believing it is. Don’t give up hope! The long run is short enough that most of us won’t be dead when it arrives.


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73 Comments
diogenes
diogenes
October 5, 2016 3:26 pm

“On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.” Bring on Sophia’s correction.

Rise Up
Rise Up
  diogenes
October 7, 2016 2:01 pm

Guess I’m not the only one here that reads the Nag Hammadi texts…

[imgcomment image[/img]

Anonymous
Anonymous
October 5, 2016 3:34 pm

Fourth Turnings are bad, no doubt.

DaBirds (Tin foil, the new Gucci)
DaBirds (Tin foil, the new Gucci)
October 5, 2016 3:38 pm

We may not be dead when it arrives but we may wish we were…

Reality, like Karma, can be a real Bitch!

starfcker the deplorable
starfcker the deplorable
October 5, 2016 3:47 pm

That’s a terrific article, Robert. I had some of the same thoughts looking at the photo of obongo holding his nobel prize in the norway piece below. That has to be the ultimate participation trophy. That fucker really believes he is special, when the reality is, he’s not even competent. A Trump presidency looks like about as good of an emperor has no clothes moment as we’re going to get. He’s been thinking about this for a long time. I expect he will overperform expectations considerably. There is a future. And the begining of that future is only 35 days away. Keep the faith.

Jason Calley
Jason Calley
October 5, 2016 3:51 pm

The fact that Keynes is remembered more for his “in the long run we are all dead” quote speaks volumes about what a despicable man he was. In the long run, HE is dead, I am dead, YOU are dead — but the only thing that is not dead is the WE. My children will be here, and their children and so on. My friends and neighbors may very well outlast me. God willing, our western civilization and culture will live on. WE keeps going on.

Keynes was despicable not only because he stole from his contemporaries, but he stole from future generations as well. In the long run, Keynes is dead, and good riddance to him. Unfortunately, the damage he did is still with us, and WE will pay for his misdeeds.

Homer
Homer
  Jason Calley
October 7, 2016 1:44 pm

Keynes was a State-ist and would have been ignored but for the fact that government needed some rational to do what it wanted to do and latched on to him because it served their purposes.

Administrator
Administrator
  Robert Gore
October 5, 2016 4:08 pm

I see it in Firefox.

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  Administrator
October 5, 2016 7:23 pm

I see it in chrome.

Suzanna
Suzanna
  Robert Gore
October 5, 2016 10:45 pm

see it

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
October 5, 2016 4:15 pm

I see it on Chrome.

bb
bb
October 5, 2016 4:41 pm

Robert , this is an unfair question but what year do you think we
Will experience an event like 2008 but much worse ?Best guess?

Some say in 2 to 3 years . Others say mid 2022 -24 .Others say not until the US military is defeated on a battlefield.Be nice to have some idea . Economists are all over the place. I’m not sure what to believe.

Big Dick
Big Dick
  bb
October 5, 2016 5:01 pm

Try before the year ends.

prusmc
prusmc
  bb
October 6, 2016 3:12 pm

I have been anticipating a massive down turn in the event that Trump is elected (unlikely as it is). That will be punishment for the unwise voters. A down turn after Hitlery takes office due to the Herb Stien advisement.

Rise Up
Rise Up
  bb
October 7, 2016 2:03 pm

In the next 15 months at the latest.

Homer
Homer
  bb
October 7, 2016 3:22 pm

bb–I’ll give you the exact time it happens. When the Bond Bubble collapses. All bubbles collapse without exception. YA! Homer, but that’s not telling me anything. O.K., bb, I’ll be more specific. When interest rate rise and there a definitive trend with rising rates. Still not satisfied? O.K., O.K., bb, I will be more specific. October 13, 2017 at 3:45pm, Pacific time. The reason I know this is that the guy that shines my shoes told me so and you can take that to the bank.

Boat Guy
Boat Guy
October 5, 2016 4:47 pm

I believe Jefferson said we owe future generations to turn our republic over to them debt free and if we create a debt it must come with a plan to pay it off in a reasonable time . I am sure Jefferson used better wording but most on this site get the idea . There are economic traitors and there treacherous damage to all of us is as Jefferson said ” I fear a bank controlling the money more than a standing army on our border . OK enough history , We did not listen , and if you don’t listen you gotta feel ! My wife and I have been financially responsible for most of our 41 years together and now we are being punished for it ! Trump is the only shot and like hunting when it’s the only shot you got , pull the fucking trigger now ! I’m not convinced Trump will work things out but I know if Hillary takes it we are FUBAR

Homer
Homer
  Boat Guy
October 7, 2016 2:54 pm

Boat Guy–It is said that debt brings future consumption forward and that is true on an individual basis, but government debt is a whole different story. Government debt is always paid off by the generations that incurred it. It isn’t passed onto future generations as supposed. You are paying for the debt now thru inflation, a diminishing of services the the government provides, and thru higher taxes.

The Silent Generation, of which I am a member, and the Baby Boomers who incurred this debt are still around and will paid for their debt by suffering the bankruptcy of the nation as the debt get wiped out. There are several ways to wipe out a debt. You can pay it down until it is extinguished or you can declare bankruptcy and renege on the debt. There are problems with these two solutions.

First, in today’s fiat currency system of credit and debt, debts are never paid off, extinguished, but merely transferred to another and the debt just continues to accumulate and accumulate. This is where we are today. There is a point where credit cannot expand any further as people can’t take on anymore debt. This is where Keynes came up with the solution. The government will take on the debt that the people are unable to take on, but there is a point where the government can not take on any more debt and that point is where the currency is devalued and repudiated. This is soon to be our fate.

Secondly, declaring bankruptcy, the US has done it several times all though not called it that, leads to great suffering and hardship by the common man. Elections are hard to win if the common man is suffering because your tenure in office caused the problem. This is why politicians always seek to ‘kick the can’ down the road when the economy becomes untenable. We are running out of road. It now a pasture soon to be badlands.

So, it doesn’t look good for the generations that incurred the debt. High prices, higher taxes, defaulted pensions, collapse of the social safety net (social security and medicare), and a decrease in pay, further de- industrialization of America, civil chaos and many more ills that have an indirect cost.

Von Mises was right, there’s no escaping the consequences of reckless credit expansion.

Mike Maloney’s videos on money and what is happening, I think are pretty much on. You should really watch them as well as Chris Martenson’s The Crash Course. You might learn something. HEY! It’s free! The price is right.

Lysander The Deplorable
Lysander The Deplorable
October 5, 2016 5:09 pm

That is a well written piece as Gore lays it out in a easy to understand form.

I get it. Most if not all TBPers get it i’m sure. But the ones we have to reach are the outsiders who never think about this stuff. My brother still gets all his news from MSM, as do my neighbors. A co-worker told me that he is more involved in what’s really happening because he listens to Sirus radio in his SUV which is tuned to HLN. Really.

Most of the above mentioned folks know things are messed up, but they think electing someone, or changing the tax code or putting an end to foreign aid are going to stop the madness and ‘put the country on the right track again’.

It ain’t happening. It will never happen, but they don’t see it. Nothing will stop this bullshit until we hit the wall.

God dammit! It’s so frustrating talking to these people and see the glazed look of boredom come into their eyes, as they change the subject. They are bored and I look like a reactionary fool.

I don’t have a point….I just had to rant.

Realist
Realist
  Lysander The Deplorable
October 6, 2016 12:01 am

What is even more frustrating, Lysander, is that no one sees the error of their ways in this mess. They continue to run up credit card debt, buy homes and cars they can no way afford (must impress the Joneses you know), take exotic vacations because they deserve it, run up student loan debt by sending their special snowflakes to an Ivy league college to study Greek Basket Weaving or some other moronic subject because it is their “passion” (and it sounds so good at the Christmas parties as opposed to sending them to study something useful such as plumbing or car mechanic), eat to excess and obesity thus running up health care costs, etc, etc, etc. I am so feeling your pain, my friend.

KK
KK
  Lysander The Deplorable
October 7, 2016 9:02 am

Try being a teacher with a room full of students who look at you with a “WTF?” expression when bringing up these things. I continue on hoping that some awareness breaks through into their safe spaces.

(Yeah, I am delusional.)

I use the Crash Course videos from Chris Martenson and I know I am speaking a foreign language. But, I usually reach a student or two each semester out of 50-60.

Homer
Homer
  KK
October 7, 2016 6:51 pm

The Millennials like all persons of that age are self centered. Unless it impacts them on a personal level in present time, they take no heed of it. It has no meaning for them. Understanding come when it impacts you. It’s called the school of hard knocks.

You have to show them how it impacts them in the present to even get into their mindset.

To a teacher to see a flicker of intelligence behind glazed eyeballs is, indeed, a welcoming sight.

Mark
Mark
October 5, 2016 6:26 pm

How can the story of Clinton using a child actor in the Town Hall not be a top story?

Homer
Homer
  Mark
October 7, 2016 9:16 pm

Because it’s not Trump!

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
October 5, 2016 6:45 pm

This was your best one yet and that’s saying something.

“…reality is reality.”

Been using a variation of that one as my moral compass for some time now. All thing considered, that’s the one truth there is no point in refuting. Everything else follows…

KK
KK
  hardscrabble farmer
October 7, 2016 9:03 am

Nature Bats Last.

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
October 5, 2016 8:51 pm

Very concise RG. Like HSF said your best one yet. Each year more folks bug out leaving less to work for the rest. The math will eventually expose the ponzi scheme when a critical mass of entitlements is reached. In the meantime the Deep State appears increasing desperate to keep control of the message. The sad part is the lack of concern by folks who get their information from MSM. They must know they are being lied to but like water off a duck’s back they shrug their shoulders too distracted by causes that hardly matter.

Every year the quality and choice of so-called alt news increases. One should presume that with the amount of information available the number of informed citizens would be increasing but the inverse seems to be true.

Laziness breeds contempt and from that union has spawned ignorance.

Surprising, well not really. Public education has been set up to treat free thinkers as insurgents. Huxley’s Brave New World was supposed to be 600 years into future but sadly it appears to be right here and right now.

Atlanta is going to burn. It would be better for everyone involved if it happened sooner rather than later.

randy
randy
October 5, 2016 10:23 pm

While the bias in this work is subtle and there, I agree with alot of this piece…

The argument that a Clinton win represents the status quo, in a time of unreal monetary policy, in which she will not make any changes that rock the boat, is real and true. But the idea that Trump has the character of a president, and that anyone outside of his base will respect him is beyond belief…There is a core group of unbelievable believers in every country…And just like in The States – they are not the majority…But…

This is the phrase that most caught my attention:

“the repricing of assets, “

It`s just not that simple. Debt has been allocated based on values determined by third parties… Once the “appraiser“ (which can be a stock analyst as well as a real estate appraiser) sets the value – a whole panoply of industries work off this “appraisal“…

Property tax, and insurance rates, are but two simple infrastructures that are entirely based on the appraised value of any asset. When you talk about the repricing of assets, this is the home of the living dead.

Repricing blows up the debt, reprices insurance, and property tax.

Considering that banks, insurance companies and government have nothing to gain by repricing, and everything to lose, as well as having a compliant media – there will be no correction of bad policy, only the Japanification of the entire world economy…

Which seems to be honky–dory for the rich, and makes serfs of the rest of us…

Neither Trump nor Hillary will change this…

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  randy
October 5, 2016 11:20 pm

Bias in this work is subtle. Fuck randy that has to be the most hypocritical thing you have said. And that is saying something. Of course if you are pressed you will say some shit like “Well my bias is the right bias”

How about this one, a meme of sorts

[imgcomment image[/img]

Calling

[imgcomment image[/img]

Black

randy
randy
  RiNS the deplorable
October 6, 2016 12:16 am

Perhaps my use of the word bias was too strong…I liked the piece.

Perhaps I should`ve used the words: false equivalence.

Whether you like the guy that fixes your central air, or not, there is a difference between a technician, and a parts changer.

It`s my opinion that one candidate has experience working in government, across the isle, and has been elected by the people. That is not to say that I like her, all of her policies, or her pedigree.

Trump on the other hand…um…he`s a businessman and a tv personality…All of the “policies“ he“s put forth have been walked back because of sane people running his campaign….and I don`t like him either (as a presidential candidate).

Again, with that said, neither one will change the status quo, no matter what either candidate says…

And I apologize if my post inferred any indignation directed at the writer.

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  randy
October 6, 2016 6:38 am

Randy

You are like a broken record. Nobody here as far as I can tell has said Trump is perfect. As for government experience you are right as it is obvious that hillary has way more as Trump has never held public office.

As for your opinion that one candidate has the experience well the only thing I would ask is experience in what. And then you launch into tripe about false equivalence. You just doubled down on hypocrite and seasoned this turkey you birthed with some stupid.

Trump is better then Hillary because he has a shred of moral fibre. She has none!

How about you list for me the top ten achievements for Hillary.

No particular order is required. I doubt you get past three or four before you are talking about bleachbytes of emails, coverups of Bill’s or resets of ridiculous.

She is a buffoon who if it weren’t for a vagina would be working at a Walmart greeting people. There is some false euivalence for ya! Redneck style! How do you like that.

She is not only incompetent she is down right dangerous.

[imgcomment image[/img]

randy
randy
  RiNS the deplorable
October 6, 2016 7:32 am

Now i remember why it`s a waste of time debating with you Rnis…

Because you (and apparently many others) think that Trump has moral fibre…

The words that come out of his mouth, the fact that he has been married three times are but two proofs that you are, in that statement, entirely intellectually dishonest…

Besides, this is not the focus of Mr Gore`s piece..

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  randy
October 6, 2016 8:35 am

No you fucktard I said Hillary has none. Some is better then none. And I am responding to your premise not Mr. Gore’s. You are the one that drove the car off the road.

Intellectually dishonest…. All I have to say about that is the one who said it first is likely the one most guilty of crime.

Married three times. That is the best you got. What are you the Catholic church. If getting a divorce precludes one from office then list of those qualified just got a lot shorter.

Bill Clinton should just apply for an exemption and get his job back. Enough of the charade. Hillary a year from now will likely be having a good day if she ain’t drooling out of both sides of her mouth anyways.

Rise Up
Rise Up
  RiNS the deplorable
October 7, 2016 2:13 pm

Randy says: “It`s my opinion that one candidate has experience working in government, across the isle, and has been elected by the people.”

You fail to grasp the essence of Trump’s campaign appeal–that he is an outsider and not a politician, in a time when the general public is FED UP with politicians, especially of the ilk of Hitlery Clinton!

In that light, political experience means nothing in this election.

starfcker the deplorable
starfcker the deplorable
  randy
October 6, 2016 2:06 am

Randy, you’re quite wrong on Trump, and sort of all over the place on lots of things. Bu t I don’t ever think I’ve seen as clear a statement as “repricing blows up the debt, reprices insurance and property tax.” Bye bye FIRE industries, in one fell swoop. Nice work.

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  randy
October 6, 2016 8:22 am

randy

congrats you are in league with Glen Beck

Answer this question. You talk about your concern for serfs.
Should Trump “walk back” as you say his position on Russia?
Who in their statements to press and public is more likely to start a war with Russia?

And then you launch into your treatise that business cycle should be suspended indefinitely. At least that is what I think your position is. I can’t really fuckin’ tell.

Repricing of assets is good for the economy. Not bad. But you are it appears a liberal ideologue who doesn’t believe in the efficiency of business cycle. The poster child of circular logic is you randy. The lever people behind the curtain have everything to gain from extend and pretend. Nothing to lose. They are family on the street living in the nicest house who can’t pay their bills and yet somehow keep convincing most everyone else to come over to their house to clean the pool. Their only threat that they will set their house on fire and with it the rest of street. Liberals are first in line to accept this ruse. I am not accepting it.

Time to pull the building and start over. It is going to happen sooner or later anyways. The longer we wait the worse the pain.

randy
randy
  RiNS the deplorable
October 7, 2016 7:55 pm

Trump will have to walk back his language on Putin and Russia because his language does not reflect the position of the Republican party…It’s that simple.

My remarks relating to Mr. Gore’s post were not related to “the business cycle”, it was related to the credit crisis.

Repricing is good you say? So I have a house “I” bought for $250 K, lets say Vegas…After the crisis, my house is now worth half…Does my insurance go down? Do my property taxes go down? Does my mortgage diminish by the same percentage as the current value of my home? (obviously rhetorical questions).

So lets say I have a fire…is my insurance company going to pay me the value of my house before the financial crisis (when the insurance contract was signed), or are they going to fuck me?…Again, a rhetorical question.

My point was that neither candidate will change anything regarding the status quo and the can kicking by the fed…Anyone who believes that Trump would do something if he were elected is completely wrong…

How is it that the people here are generally very cynical when it comes to politicians (usually, regardless of party), yet somehow believe this reality tv star? (that is not rhetorical).

It’s really easy to tell someone else to rip off a bandaid…To tell someone else to suck it up and take the loss…

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  randy
October 7, 2016 10:55 pm

randy

You are pushing two different arguments here.

First it is obvious that you do not believe in the efficiency of business cycle. Bad debt and asset prices need to be set by market. There is no other way unless one wants to live in a facist or communist society. Both of which are just different names for the same thing.

As for your rhetorical scenarios how about we call the whaambulance. Your misallocation of capital should never be my problem. Sucks to be you. Your money your problem.

Why should I be made to pay for your mistakes?

As for Trump I agree that in terms of economy he would not do much that would be different then Hillary. The one and only reason I’d vote for DJT is he does seem genuine in keeping us out of war in MENA with the Russians.

That is all this election is about for me.

I do have to ask why is it that you keep casting dispersions on the Donald. You dismiss him as TV star when that is something he came to late in life. He is first and foremost an entrepreneur.

And Hillary gets a get out of jail free card from you. You spout every talking point the Deep State comes up with. She has done some of the most dispicable things and yet you turn away.

And tonight more documents are being dumped from wikileaks. And from you nary a peep. The choice though imperfect is between war and peace and yet you wish to whinge about a master and his apprentice.

You seem to me more worried about losing your money then saving someone else’s life.

But that is for me the very essense of the hive to which you belong.

randy
randy
  RiNS the deplorable
October 7, 2016 11:53 pm

Rin…I’m not talking about the business cycle, and neither was Gore. I’m not worried about losing my money, I don’t own a home in Vegas…

In the “normal” world, you’re right. The market sets the price. Another way of saying that is- Mark to Market (GAAP – Generally Accepted Accounting Principles). Currently though (since March 2008) , the principle is – Mark to Model…

The problem, as I have described, is that the mortgage origination (money creation-supply) was corrupt. That corruption is what inflated prices (demand). It wasn’t a misallocation of capital, it was a misallocation of credit.

No one has asked you to pay for their mistake in having a larger mortgage than the value of the property they bought.

Your government TOLD you that YOU WILL PAY for the losses incurred by banks who gave mortgages to un-creditworthy people. I would say that that is closer to crony capitalism, and fascism – than communism (to be picky)…

I have control of my capital, the bank has control of my credit.

I am not a Clinton surrogate. There is enough information out there, that has come from Trump’s words and actions, that clearly define to any sane person, that he is a buffoon. A clown. An un-serious candidate.

“He is first and foremost, an entertainer.” In that line you describe a person who will do anything for attention (narcissist). In that context, it doesn’t matter whether publicity is good or bad, as long as we get to see “the brand”…

I find it mildly amusing that – because I voice an opinion against Trump – that I must be aligned with the Deep State and that somehow I’m giving Clinton a “get out of jail free” card. Trump is the one giving Hillary a ‘get out of jail free card’, just by opening his fricken mouth (on seemingly a daily basis).

Not once have I denied that Clinton is a shill for the establishment. Yes I read the Clinton speeches on ZH..And I say meh….politicians in bed with the rich doesn’t surprise me. I could see many other politicians (and Trump, although he’s not nuanced enough to speak “rich” code) making these types of speeches.

It all comes down to what the candidates represent. Clinton pulling bullshit politician games compared to Trump saying – “If she wasn’t my daughter, perhaps I would be dating her”…come on man, you can’t defend that…That shit is sick. What does an 18 year old voter think of that….creepy old guy.

We expect politicians to be dirty, we don’t expect candidates to say perverted things out loud.

What happens in your election has no bearing on my earning potential, I am simply an observer making comments.

As to war…um…well, that’s congress…in collusion with the military industrial complex…

Man, I know you, and many others here – know this shit. It’s not me who is locked into a hive mind mentality…I’m not endorsing or even voting in this election…it’s you believers in Trump that close your ears , eyes and intellect to your candidate. That is the hive.

I understand the appeal of Trump, to a certain extent, and found it entertaining last year…I just didn’t know how dumb, and out of touch with the seriousness of running for president Trump really was…

Btw, I didn’t mention Clinton’s speeches, nor did i mention Trumps new controversy…

Homer
Homer
  randy
October 7, 2016 4:22 pm

randy, I don’t think you quite understand what Gore was saying about the repricing of assets. Firstly, is fiat debt, as Gore used the term, government decreed debt? I think from the context it would be fiat credit, that more fully fits the bill.

Secondly, “Debt has been allocated based on values determined by third parties”, so on, that needs explaining. It don’t make no sense to me, but I’m not the sharpest tack on the bulletin board. What Gore means, I think, is that credit creation mis-prices assets in the market place. Credit increases demand and pushes asset prices upward. Values are not determined by some third party, but by demand. The reason that Beanie Babies, remember those, became a mania is because demand was so great, not that some third party person set the price. The price is always set by the purchaser.

When demand collapses as it did for Beanie Babies, there is a repricing of assets regardless of what an appraiser says. When there is a collapse of credit all the assets that were buoyed by that credit get repriced. Basic economics of Supply and Demand, 101.

The Tulip Mania was a prime example.

randy
randy
  Homer
October 7, 2016 8:24 pm

I completely understand what Gore wrote…I was here when this site started (and ZH), and this was THE major topic of discussion…

So, in service to you, I will explain, succinctly, the third party issue…you get approved for the mortgage amount that the bank feels you deserve then you find a house you want….Then a bank approved appraiser is consulted to confirm the value of the property you want to buy.

Real estate agents, property owners adjacent to the property you want, the municipality, insurance companies, maybe condo associations, and the bank are all pushing for higher prices because it benefits them. It doesn’t benefit the prospective purchaser.

Now when the banks were giving out mortgages to anyone who could fog a mirror, it created and unnatural inflation rate in the value of real estate. And because normally, a good portion of those low credit borrowers would not be able to get a mortgage, it created competition for home purchases that should not have been there….

Banks don’t care because the bigger the mortgage the more interest they “earn” (also, banks were selling those mortgages to Wall Street. Once sold, the bank didn’t give two fucks whether the purchaser paid their mortgage)…Insurance companies don’t care, higher values, higher premiums…Municipalities don’t care, higher values mean higher property taxes.

Underlying all of this are professional appraisers who legitimize the value for the bank…The third party…

The idea that supply and demand should set asset values is a righteous opinion…If banks are consistent with how they qualify borrowers, then, I agree with you…But banks were not consistent. They were predatory. Because they could sell the mortgage to Wall Street as soon as they got “a live one” to sign on the dotted line…

It’s that last action of the bank that created an artificial demand that screwed people that really couldn’t afford the mortgage, and screwed people that could afford the mortgage, because prices paid were artificially high…

The difference regarding supply and demand, and price collapse, related to Beanie Babies, and houses, is night and day…Fannie and Freddie held 5 trillion in inflated mortgages with a good portion that had no chance of ever being repaid…I doubt anyone ever got a mortgage sized loan from a bank to buy a stuffed animal.

The tulip mania was closer in context to the Beanie Baby than to the inflated values of properties that had mortgages written against them…

One more thing…The American tax code also contributed to the unnatural inflation of real estate in that mortgage interest can be written off. Thereby inducing people to take out the biggest mortgage they figured they could afford, working in the tax refund they would get for the interest deduction…

Homer
Homer
  randy
October 7, 2016 9:41 pm

randy! Gasp! It is truly unbelievable that you don’t understand basic economics. Most of what you said is what happened and is true. But, nothing that you said changed what I said, one iota. I just said it in fewer words and more understandably. Instead of ranting about how the world works against you or people, you might try to understand the principles that describe these actions.

Beanie Babies and the Tulip Craze fully describes what happened in the housing market which you acknowledged happened in your reply. It mystifies me that you don’t see it.

It’s all about Supply and Demand. Supply is the goods that exist in the marketplace up for bid like houses and Demand is the money used to bid for those goods like bank credit. Quit bitching about how unfair it is. If you don’t like the terms, don’t participate. No one twisted your arm.

Are a lot of people being f**ked over? Damn right! It’s because they’re ignorant!

Look, randy, asset value is only what someone is willing to give you money for something. No more, no less. I can say my beat-up old Buick Century is worth an asset value of $30 grand, but it’s meaningless unless it can be sold for that much. Everyone measures their purchases in terms of value whether or not that value is realistic.

randy
randy
  Homer
October 7, 2016 10:17 pm

While you may call my posts rambling, the topic is more than complex. Sorry if my attempt to fully explain my thoughts takes it’s toll on you. Really I am fishing for someone to (credibly) point out my mistakes so that I can improve my understanding….I digress.

Supply and demand works as an free market economic construct defined by scarcity.

Scarcity, when it relates to product results in inflation. Scarcity, when it relates to money results in deflation.

The issue with regard to the financial crisis is not fiat. It is the exponential explosion of (bad) credit, that artificially inflated real estate, and the realization of market participants that there is not enough income (in aggregate) to make the monthly payments.

Resulting in a crisis that forced the Fed (and all other Central Banks) to make the “money supply” (credit to banks) infinite, regardless whether it could be repaid. The Central Banks are simply propping up a fake market. Nothing has been fixed.

What your missing in your argument about toys and tulips is that the money used in real estate is credit. Not cash…And that banks made these contracts (mortgages) in bad faith, then sold them to Wall Street, who then sold them to clients, then bet against them.

You are comparing apples to nail clippers…

Homer
Homer
  randy
October 8, 2016 12:41 am

Holy cow, randy, what can I say! It’s all scarce. All resources are scarce. The only thing that’s not scarce in this world is the air you breath and the and the amount of ignorance that people gleefully cling to. They wear it like a badge. As the saying goes–“There’s no shame in being ignorant, but it’s nothing to be proud of either.”

You say–“What your missing in your argument about toys and tulips (Homer) is that the money used in real estate is credit. Not cash…And that banks made these contracts (mortgages) in bad faith…” Hey! News Flash! It’s all credit. Read the top of a dollar bill (cash). It says FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE! What’s a NOTE? It’s an extension of credit. Our monetary system is a currency system base on credit. The closest we come to cash is copper clad coinage. Furthermore, how else do you expect crooks to act, except in bad faith.

It sounds from your comments that you’ve been screwed, somehow, and can’t get over it.

Look, you say, “Scarcity, when it relates to product results in inflation. Scarcity, when it relates to money results in deflation.” I can some what relate to deflation as a scarcity of money in that deflation is a contraction of the money supply. But…What you are referring to is Price Inflation and Price Deflation which isn’t inflation or deflation at all. Scarcity of goods in demand (I’m not talking monetary demand) results in price inflation IF THERE IS MONETARY DEMAND AVAILABLE to push the price up. Think of demand as want. Think of monetary demand as money. If there isn’t enough monetary demand to meet the ask price, then the price falls to meet the monetary demand available or no transaction takes place.

In trade, all goods produced above immediate needs, seeks to be sold. There is an incentive for producers to get rid of their inventory. If it can’t be sold they stop producing.

randy
randy
  Homer
October 8, 2016 12:54 am

You know, it’s one thing to have a spirited discussion with someone you may disagree with. But if the opponent is just daft, it becomes pointless…

Your comparing Beanie Babies to real estate, and I’m the one who doesn’t get it. Ignorance is changing the parameters or context of an argument because you have no “real” reply.

Air is scarce, it’s money, that’s not. Copper and clad, buddy, it’s 2016…

It doesn’t sound like I’ve been screwed over, it sounds like I’m aware that we’ve all been screwed over. You sound like you’re trying to defend something you don’t clearly understand.

Finally, I don’t get offended by people poking holes in my argument. I relish the challenge to prove my point….OR LEARN…

It’s a neat concept, try it on sometime.

rhs jr
rhs jr
October 5, 2016 10:51 pm

In 1937, Joe Brandt had a vision of The Big One and the President had large ears. In 1973, David Wilkerson said (my paraphrase) the dollar will appear to be gaining value when some shocking news about American Banks (?) will be blamed for the crash; a bank run in some European (Medaterranian?) country will spread to Japan and South America in a couple weeks and then to the USA in a couple days. It will be before an election and there will be a revolt at the polls. Uriah Akinmoju believes the DOW will close exactly at 17,958.26 and things will go down from there. On 28Apr2011, Mark Taylor said God told him that if Trump is elected President, He (God) would bless and restore America (delay The Big One?). So bad things could happen very soon or many years away depending on the voters.

Suzanna
Suzanna
October 5, 2016 11:15 pm

Robert,
You are surprisingly upbeat in your expose’ of our wretched state.

People are tired of being blamed for allowing gov being out of control.
People are tired of hearing there will be a devastating collapse and we
will be starving to death. People may be so scared that their energy
is being used to sustain their denial, crossing their fingers and hoping
the tooth fairy won’t forget them. And too many are engaged in a struggle
for their very survival. You did say that and I agree.

I am in a more cynical mode. Think Bill Ayers, Barry Soetoro, CIA, triangle.
We are in a midst of a communist takeover…but first the system must crash.
Then the order out of chaos plan. I do not think a pack of wise good guys is
waiting on the other side. The last three administrations certainly have been setting
this up! Consider the deregulation that has allowed the banks and politicians to
run wild and commit crimes without consequence. Consider the NDAA, and the
deadly consequences possible should the gov need scapegoats. Think Saul Alinsky
and his dedication to Lucifer…Rules For Radicals. Remember H. Clinton’s thesis?

I fear we are in for dark times. Think Syria and the dead and dying. Why is the US
bombing there? I forget. To destroy the country and oust the leader? Energy
money? Some other grand plan? Pretty rough isn’t it?

Your essay was good and true, thanks for that. I perked up right away when I saw
you had posted.

Suzanna

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
October 6, 2016 12:04 am

“Most bosses, bureaucrats, and politicians investigate no farther, and craft self-serving narratives to promote what they’re doing.”

All enabled by the fed.

The point of recognition you ask about will be financial in nature with the devaluation of our dollar by 30%-80%. A dollar devaluation of that level will reduce the purchasing power of all welfare funds as well as earned income. For those of you who don’t understand that….the price of everything will go up equal the the devaluation. Who here thinks any segment of our population can handle even a 20% loss of purchasing power at this point? Could all of you business owners out there (including the high earning llpoh) handle a devaluation like that? Would your business survive?

When I tell people I’m not voting I’m told that tRump will somehow “soften” the the collapse. We don’t need a “soft” collapse. We need a hard impact with the old dead cat bounce to jar the sheople back to reality. The most unsustainable aspect of our lives is central banking and unless we tackle that particular evil head on, they will simply send your children and grandchildren off to war to help cover up the collapse and implement a new flavor of phunny munny as a “solution” that simply gives them a do-over on a global scale next time.

End the fucking fed and we can all quit waltzing around pretending to fix things.

Jason Calley
Jason Calley
  IndenturedServant
October 6, 2016 9:41 am

Hey Indentured Servant! “The most unsustainable aspect of our lives is central banking ”

Yes, great point, but I would add just one small addition, that of fractional reserve banking. Granted, the central banks make fractional reserve banking more possible, by supporting banks that might have bank runs. But even if the Fed were removed, fractional reserve banking would still create an ever increasing monetary supply by injecting fraudulent loans into the economy.

Get rid of the Fed, absolutely, and also stop banks from loaning money that does not exist.

fear & loathing
fear & loathing
October 6, 2016 1:24 am

thanks mr gore, reminds of my frequent comments to my congressmen. tonight i queried who has destroyed more lives, the the RED RES on the battlefield or all the lives destroyed by their policies. of course like all other notes no response in order unless form letters included. it is all a joke, he will retire to names of roads and libraries and he was a silent backbencher as i often reminded him. he and i both know who he really represents.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
October 6, 2016 3:35 am

Keynes was a fag.

Stucky
Stucky
October 6, 2016 7:25 am

RiNS the deplorable

I already commended you for adding “the deplorable” to your name. You were the FIRST to do so. But, copycats are a sincere form of flattery.

And now you got a new avatar … the froggy-guy behind bars!! Friggin fabulous!!!

——

This Randy dude sounds like a real dipshit. I read ONE of his rants early on, and then stopped reading them altogether. I’m dead serious. I don’t know how you do it. Anyway, from the reaming he’s getting from you and others, it seems his asshole-ishness is increasing exponentially, and will soon fill our Solar System.

RiNS the deplorable
RiNS the deplorable
  Stucky
October 6, 2016 8:56 am

Thanks Stucky

You made my day. As for randy, tromping on his liberal tropes, the pay ain’t great but the rewards are real.

randy
randy
  Stucky
October 7, 2016 8:37 pm

That’s the problem here and in the world…

Without reading stuff from those you don’t agree with, you never find out whether you’re right or wrong…

You just assume your right, and that the other is wrong…

My catchphrase is “stupid people don’t know that they’re stupid”…

Democrats are not always right, Republicans are not always wrong…but you learn nothing when you close your eyes.

With regard to getting “reamed”…I’m a big boy…I can take it, and dish it out…

Southern Sage
Southern Sage
October 6, 2016 7:35 am

Keynes was an enthusiastic homo. For him and those of his ilk, we are all dead in the end. For normal people with children and grandchildren his cute saying is evil nonsense.

Doug
Doug
October 6, 2016 11:54 am

Hey Robert,
Great article as usual! I am a CFA, been in finance for almost 25 years, and have been an avid follower of ZeroHedge, DollarCollapse and TBP for a long time. Have you read this? IMO it makes good sense as to how it will play out. Long, but very worthwhile read and I am curious what you think about it.

https://medium.com/deepconnections/prevailing-gray-swans-7-september-30-2016-8c1df681fd52#.u34wxhqcl

randy
randy
  Robert Gore
October 7, 2016 8:40 pm

I wasn’t trying to be a dick Rob…but sometimes it comes out that way because I know that I’m swimming against the ideological tide here…

This is a great article regarding the robo-signing issue that quietly died in the media back in 2010…

http://www.acting-man.com/?p=5187

Doug
Doug
  Robert Gore
October 24, 2016 3:23 pm

Robert, no problem. I had been meaning to come back here and see if you were able to read it and respond. It was lengthy but I glad you like it. Seems crazy to me but if the CBs get the inflation they so desperately desire, that might burst the MOB – a “be careful what you wish for” scenario. It is hard to imagine sales of zero or negative interest rate bonds to anyone (except CBs) expecting capital gains in an inflationary world.

Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt
October 6, 2016 3:24 pm

An optimistic posting! “I won’t be dead when it arrives!”

I’ve never been sure about that. As long as the Fed’s balance sheet can keep expanding – indefinitely, as far as I can see – with no intention of ever shrinking that balance sheet, the zombies will continue walking. Whether those zombies are government check-receiving serfs or TBTF entities…

The alternative is this: there will never be an obvious “system failure”…in the same way that ‘bankruptcy’ has been said to be a PROCESS, not an EVENT.

Instead, things will perniciously erode, as ever, from the margins. Imperceptibly to those not yet affected, but catastrophically to the overt victim. Inflation – monetary and price – will continue. Living standards will keep falling. Debt will keep rising. Good jobs will disappear, even for the privileged technician/engineer/manager/government employee sections. Life will get harder. Social cohesion will fray. Time will be shorter, incomes stagnant, and speculation and betting will increasingly masquerade in the guise of the long-absent ‘investing’. People’s kids will fail to ‘lift off’, even out of their parents’ basements. Asset prices will keep rising, even as liquidity dries up, to the point that transaction volume in markets becomes a shadow of former levels…

Thing is, there will be no point at which you can say, “It just suddenly collapsed”…because it IS collapsing. If you’re lucky, all one can hope for is that one’s own victimization occurs later in this process rather than earlier.

But the masses won’t notice anything.

Homer
Homer
  Kreditanstalt
October 8, 2016 1:45 am

Kreditanstalt–You are right. The FEDS balance sheet will keep on expanding. They will buy stocks, bonds in liquidation and US bonds, any and all forms of debt. They will own everything, paid for with money created out of thin air. They are the new rentier making a gain on every transaction. Keynes was wrong about the ‘euthanasia of the rentier’. They just changed their business model.

Keynes fails to understand the ‘time value’ of interest and instead saw it as exploiting the scarcity-value of capital. I have come to believe rightly or wrongly that Keynes was a dyed in the wool Marxist. They were both State-ists.

Today, interest is near zero and soon going negative, further impoverishing pensioners and savers and bond buyers. Oh America the Great, how far thou hast fallen!

Homer
Homer
October 8, 2016 1:25 am

randy for someone who is anxious to learn, you seem to avoid it at every turn. It’s hard to overcome prejudices.