On this day in 1941, Adm. Harold R. Stark, U.S. chief of naval operations, tells Adm. Husband E. Kimmel, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, that both President Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull think a Japanese surprise attack is a distinct possibility.
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“We are likely to be attacked next Monday, for the Japs are notorious for attacking without warning,” Roosevelt had informed his Cabinet. “We must all prepare for trouble, possibly soon,” he telegraphed British Prime Minister Winston Churchill.
Kimmel’s command was specifically at the mid-Pacific base at Oahu, which comprised, in part, Pearl Harbor. At the time he received the “warning” from Stark, he was negotiating with Army Lt. Gen. Walter C. Short, commander of all U.S. forces at Pearl Harbor, about sending U.S. warships out from Pearl Harbor in order to reinforce Wake and Midway Islands, which, along with the Philippines, were possible Japanese targets. But the Army had no antiaircraft artillery to spare.
War worries had struck because of an intercepted Japanese diplomatic message, which gave November 25 as a deadline of sorts. If Japanese diplomacy had failed to convince the Americans to revoke the economic sanctions against Japan, “things will automatically begin to happen,” the message related. Those “things” were becoming obvious, in the form of Japanese troop movements off Formosa (Taiwan) apparently toward Malaya. In fact, they were headed for Pearl Harbor, as was the Japanese First Air Fleet.
Despite the fact that so many in positions of command anticipated a Japanese attack, especially given the failure of diplomacy (Japan refused U.S. demands to withdraw from both the Axis pact and occupied territories in China and Indochina), no one expected Hawaii as the target.
The rest is history.
Old Roosy knew the attack was imminent. There is a small collection of WW2 artifacts saved by a former soldier on display in Port Charlotte, FL. One of which is the Friday, Dec. 5 Honolulu Times newspaper with the headline: Raid on Pearl likely this weekend. This paper was saved from the g-men who came in to sweep them off the streets.
Did you actually SEE this newspaper, The Honolulu Times, CC? If you did, I have bad news. No such newspaper with that name has ever existed in Hawaii. The closest anyone ever came to an accurate prediction about Pearl Harbor was published in an LA newspaper article in 1937, and it was a hypothesis that, if Japan were to attack the US, its first target would be the Pacific Fleet in Hawaii.
As for the G-men (FBI agents) seizing that fictional newspaper, think hard, CC. The US papers were FILLED to the brim about “war with Japan” articles before Pearl Harbor. If Hoover were ordering his agents to start seizing newspapers, he would have been fired and arrested. He was a powerful figure, but not THAT powerful.
Now go do some diligent research and clean up the shitbomb you dropped above.
There was no pacific fleet in Hawaii in 1937. Roosevelt moved the headquarters of the fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor during the summer of 1941.
True enough, Zara. But as tensions with Japan continued to escalate in the 1930s, more and more ships of the Pacific fleet were deployed to Pearl Harbor. Moving the headquarters there was a formality to recognize reality.
Sanctions ARE an act of war.
No, they’re not. A naval blockade is.
Good Lord, what has this site turned into? A refuge for whacko revisionists of history? Fuhrer Raccoon (he can’t even spell his screen name correctly) cites his source as David Irving. Some sourced (yeah, it’s Wiki) info on Irving.
David John Cawdell Irving (born 24 March 1938) is an English Holocaust denier[1] and author who has written on the military and political history of World War II, with a focus on Nazi Germany. In his works, he argued that Hitler did not know of the extermination of Jews or, if he did, opposed it.[2] Though Irving’s revisionist views of World War II were never taken seriously by mainstream historians, he was once recognised for his knowledge of Nazi Germany and his ability to unearth new historical documents.
Irving marginalised himself in 1988 when he began to espouse Holocaust denial, specifically denying that Jews were murdered by gassing at the Auschwitz extermination camp.[4][5] Irving’s reputation as an historian was discredited[6] when, in the course of an unsuccessful libel case he filed against the American historian Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books, he was shown to have deliberately misrepresented historical evidence to promote Holocaust denial.[7] The English court found that Irving was an active Holocaust denier, antisemite, and racist,[8] who “for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence”.[8][9]
David Irving was imprisoned in Germany for being a Holocaust denier and for giving speeches on the subject. He must have believed what he was saying to knowingly risk jail time for saying it.
I could care less what an English court found. All courts are crooked, and especially in England.
Well, Vixen Vic is mostly correct. English and German laws are quite different from ours, and that’s why I’m such a big fan of the U.S. Constitution, which gives everyone “the right to remain stupid and say stupid shit.” Heh.
The U.S. Constitution actually sucks. We were better off under the original Articles of Confederation.
Well, it’s been around for 230 years, and the Articles of Confederation lasted what? Somewhere around a long weekend. Heh.
Anyone who has served in the military knows why they chose Sunday morning for the attack. When I was in, we were generally at our least ready (and often least coherent) on Sunday mornings.
Fuhrer Raccoon requested I repost an article I posted 7(!!) years ago about Jose Rodriguez, retired Director of the CIA’s Clandestine Service. Happy to oblige and thanks for remembering something that dated. It was entitled “Hooray for Jose.” Here you go, Raccoon. Short read. About 2 minutes.
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I’m sure everyone was popping champagne corks when it was announced recently that the nation’s former spymaster, Jose Rodriguez, who was Chief of the CIA’s Clandestine Service (formal title: Deputy Director for Operations), would not be charged with any wrongdoing for ordering the destruction of 92 videotapes which showed several senior members of al Qaeda being water boarded after they were captured. One of you, maybe two tops, could be thinking, “No way, Jose.”
I, for one, am quite pleased by the decision of the federal prosecutor to not file charges against the Puerto Rican-born Rodriguez. I have known Rodriguez for over 20 years, and he was an outstanding officer. He retired shortly after I did in 2007.
Rodriguez made a tough decision to destroy the video tapes. To do otherwise would have possibly exposed numerous other CIA officers to prosecution (and blow their cover), in addition to exposing not only the CIA, but the United States, to refueled international condemnation a la Abu Ghraib and bullshit lawsuits filed with the International Court of Justice targeting people from former President George W. Bush on down. Just like a good Marine, Rodriguez refused to leave anyone on the battlefield.
I’m sure that Bush’s admission in his recent book that he enthusiastically endorsed and approved the waterboarding interrogation technique played a huge part in the prosecutor’s decision to pack it in. Game over. Good on you, George. One more point. Despite what you may have read from totally clueless pundits and armchair psychiatrists on information gained from waterboarding, we got some really, really good stuff.
Does that mean I endorse torture? No, it doesn’t. And I don’t. Prior to my first deployment to Vietnam, in 1967 I was sent to the Air Force’s Survival School at Fairchild AFB near Spokane, Washington. Everyone went through the experience of being “captured and sent to a POW camp.” Not fun. One of the techniques used by our “captors” was to stuff you into a tiny box where you are doubled up and literally couldn’t move. It only lasted 10-15 minutes, but it was excruciatingly uncomfortable. And if you’re claustrophobic, as I am, it was off the charts scary. If they let you in there any longer, your intestinal organs and kidneys would go to sleep, and once you were pulled out, you would involuntarily defecate and urinate.
Was that torture? I don’t think so, but it is not something I would want to experience on a routine basis, day after day. John McCain knows true, physical, gut-wrenching torture. I don’t. McCain condemns the use of waterboarding. I don’t.
I’m sure all of you will want to join me in standing and lifting your glasses in a toast to Jose Rodriguez. Hear, hear!!!
Based on that post, Jose Rodriquez should have been jailed, along with George W. Bush and the rest of them.
On what charge, Vixen Vic? The “crimes” (in your mind) took place on foreign soil against foreign nationals who were, by DEFINITION OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS TO WHICH THE U.S. IS SIGNATORY, illegal combatants. Illegal combatants have zero rights under international law. Zero=None.
Think hard. I just know you’ll come up with something.
To begin with, had war been declared by Congress, there would have been no “illegal combatants” and the Geneva Conventions protections would have applied to prisoners of war against the use of torture. War was never declared. According to Sen. Lindsey Graham, we were not officially at war, therefore, the Geneva Conventions didn’t apply. According to President George W. Bush, and others, we were at war. Which is it?
Just because the CIA and U.S. military used facilities outside of the U.S does not excuse this behavior. That is the main reason they used black sites in other countries, to avoid being held accountable for their atrocious behavior. That was the plan.
If the U..S. inflicts torture, whether on U.S. soil or in another countries, by commanding another countries’ troop to do it, under U.S. supervision, you can only expect torture inflicted on U.S. troops in the future.
Is SSS a troll?
That explains it.
It will stir up heated discussion with me! Torture has been proven to be worthless in the past. That’s why is was basically outlawed in so-called “civilized countries” Knowing the U.S. government did this, even if it was in another country, under troops of another country but under U.S. direction, infuriates me.! There is absolutely not excuse for torture!
I don’t generally use exclamation points in a posting, but on this subject, I will.
I would like to say here and now that the CIA, FBI, NSA, and all the other alphabet soup should have never been established, and they should be abolished immediately. I have no respect for anybody from any of these agencies.
I don’t know SSS. I apologize if he’s one of the infrequent good guys. But there seems to be few if any good guys. The majority is a bunch of douche bags as far as I’m concerned. I don’t believe anything said by these guys.
SSS, just wanted to apologize for my rudeness in commenting. This came out sounding really harsh, worse than I meant it sound. It wasn’t really directed at you, but against the D.C. swamp and rogue agents that I get so tired of. But I do get passionate about torture. I agree with General Mattis on that point.
( I couldn’t remember which article I posted this to, so that’s why it took so long to write this. I had to go back and find it.)
And you don’t sound like a troll afterall.