President Trump reportedly gave the order to attack Iran Thursday night in response to its downing of a US drone that Washington claims was in international waters at the time. The US went so far as to maneuver planes and ships into position before the strike was called off.
The New York Times and WSJ report, citing a handful of senior officials, that the president was prepared to attack a number of Iranian targets, including radar and missile batteries. However, he eventually gave the word to stand down, with the NYT reporting that Trump chose to pull US military forces back, though it isn’t clear why. Earlier in the day, Trump said during a press conference with Canada’s Justin Trudeau that it was possible that a ‘rogue’ general had authorized the drone take-down, and that the whole incident might be some kind of mistake. The strike was still in motion as late as 7 pm ET (just before dawn Iran time), and officials were surprised when it didn’t happen, given the intense discussions between top national security personnel.
According to Reuters, a senior administration said US warplanes took to the air and ships were put in position for a retaliatory attack only for an order to come to stand down, without any weapons being fired. Strikes had been set for early in the day to minimize harm to civilians and the military, and it was unclear if the administration would move ahead with attacks at a later date. Trump made clear that the situation would have been much more tense if the unmanned $130 million surveillance drone had been flown by a pilot. Washington had warned Tehran of the attack via Oman.
The attack would have been the third strike ordered in the Middle East by Trump, following two missile strikes in Syria in 2017 and 2018. It wasn’t clear whether Trump simply changed his mind on the attacks, or whether the military was embracing a different strategy.
Trump’s national security advisers split about whether to respond militarily. Senior administration officials said Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, National Security Advisor John Bolton and CIA Director Gina Haspel had favored a military response. But top Pentagon officials cautioned that such an action could set off a spiraling escalation that could draw in American forces in the region.
For what it’s worth, Trump’s decision to cancel the strike will please international officials who had urged the US to exercise restraint. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang on Friday urged the US and Iran to resolve issues through dialogue in response to a question Friday about reports of an aborted American military strike.
Still, with Iran set to breach its limits on enriched uranium set out in the Iran deal within the next few days, the prospect of military escalation is hardly off the table.
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The old “Statue of Liberty” play?
Just a good fake to give them a few restless nights.
Rolling the dice with civilization as the stakes. I need a nerve pill.
Exactly– and also exactly why many of us voted for Trump. Hillary would probably be arranging an amphibious assault by now… she also would have sent troops to Syria after the false flag chemical attacks…and maybe biggest of all, she was all-in with McCain on sending weapons and military advisors to Ukraine to escalate a war on the very border of Russia……
If Trump had lost, we might already be glowing in the dark and hiding in bunkers with our food and ammo caches.
I am not totally sure of the statistics here,but how many of these senior administration officials have served in a combat unit? Or seen war other than on TV? I’m willing to bet none. They want war so bad.Cowards send other men to do their fighting.
Bilco,
Bingo bango. I CANNOT be said enough times.
They don’t want war, they want to control the movement of oil. It’s always the oil and keeping the Russians and other players away….witness Syria and what happened when Putin stepped in. Too bad Putin didn’t step in in Libya, the migrant crisis in Europe and now the US is a direct result of deposing Kadaffi. Here. some more history….not so much Israel as CIA….
United States’ role
As a condition for restoring the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, in 1954 the U.S. required removal of the AIOC’s monopoly; five American petroleum companies, Royal Dutch Shell, and the Compagnie Française des Pétroles, were to draw Iran’s petroleum after the successful coup d’état—Operation Ajax. The Shah declared this to be a “victory” for Iranians, with the massive influx of money from this agreement resolving the economic collapse from the last three years, and allowing him to carry out his planned modernization projects.[14]
As part of that, the CIA organized anti-Communist guerrillas to fight the Tudeh Party if they seized power in the chaos of Operation Ajax.[71] Released National Security Archive documents showed that Undersecretary of State Walter Bedell Smith reported that the CIA had agreed with Qashqai tribal leaders, in south Iran, to establish a clandestine safe haven from which U.S.-funded guerrillas and spies could operate.[71][72]
Operation Ajax’s formal leader was senior CIA officer Kermit Roosevelt, Jr., while career agent Donald Wilber was the operational leader, planner, and executor of the deposition of Mosaddegh. The coup d’état depended on the impotent Shah’s dismissing the popular and powerful Prime Minister and replacing him with General Fazlollah Zahedi, with help from Colonel Abbas Farzanegan—a man agreed upon by the British and Americans after determining his anti-Soviet politics.[72]
The CIA sent Major General Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. to persuade the exiled Shah to return to rule Iran. Schwarzkopf trained the security forces that would become known as SAVAK to secure the shah’s hold on power.[73]
The coup was carried out by the U.S. administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower in a covert action advocated by Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, and implemented under the supervision of his brother Allen Dulles, the Director of Central Intelligence.[74] The coup was organized by the United States’ CIA and the United Kingdom’s MI6, two spy agencies that aided royalists and royalist elements of the Iranian army.[75] Much of the money was channeled through the pro-Shah Ayatollah Mohammad Behbahani, who drew many religious masses to the plot. Ayatollah Kashani had completely turned on Mosaddegh and supported the Shah, by this point.[12]
According to a heavily redacted CIA document[76] released to the National Security Archive in response to a Freedom of Information request, “Available documents do not indicate who authorized CIA to begin planning the operation, but it almost certainly was President Eisenhower himself. Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose has written that the absence of documentation reflected the President’s style.”
And John McCain is cursing Trump from the grave for standing down.
I led a team in 2003-2004 to do concept designs and cost estimates for a U2 complex in the UAE that could also accommodate the longer wing span of the future Global Hawk drone. I’m quite sure that is where the Global Hawk flew out of an air base just east of Abu Dhabi… Chip
I am equally sure the Global Hawk was doing incursions and skirting the territorial line to test radars, reactions and generally provoke the Iranians……which means of course that both sides are accurate…..I am sure Iranian airspace was penetrated even if the aircraft was shot down over international waters……Its Ok honey, just the tip……
I believe that all unmanned, spy aircraft should be free-game. Unless these devices are flying within a country’s own border, there should be international law allowing the destruction of any spycraft/drones.
That’s not how radars work….sure some sophisticated radars are able to say “it’s a small aircraft” and based on speed, altitude and movement determine if its a rotor aircraft but no way can they tell manned vs. unmanned. Not that it really matters….if an aircraft is in your airspace you can take it out.
Absolutely. The US skirts the airspace even of China and Russia – as they do ours. It’s an ongoing display. There’s a good chance that our drone strayed – whether purposely or accidentally- into Iranian airspace. There’s also a good chance that the president was told otherwise. Thankfully he’s held his fire so far. I think he knows that there are liars around him.
30% of all the oil in the world goes through that area, and Iran sits right there. So regardless of anything else Iran feels pretty smug b/c with very conventional weapons that can shut that area down. Oil is still the lifeblood of the world and I can’t imagine any country being able to handle the financial impact of that area being shutdown. Alot of countries don’t like Iran much, its not as if they leadership there are friendly, they have their fingers in alot of hotspots around that area. Saudia Arabia probably has more concerns than just about anyone w/ how things are going. But I don’t see how any hot war leads to anything but severe financial pain. Iran doesn’t need nukes to make playing chicken with them a bad thing. Clearly they want to push things with the US and the other scapegoats that they use for domestic consumption to try and keep their population under control. They are playing games as well, and they have some religous fervor there to promote hurting countries like the US, or at least trying to make themselves look strong and the US weak.
I for one would like the US to get out of there, and pretty much everywhere, it would be interesting to see if oil would keep flowing without the US playing police. But if something goes south there, that would be a tipping point that would put the entire world into recession, oil prices would skyrocket to the point where no one would be happy even the oil producers.
80% of China’s oil goes through the Straits……don’t miss the pressure Trump is putting on China by ratcheting up tensions…..including the oil price spike….hurts China much worse than USA. So while not quite 4D Chess…..I am giving Trump a 2.5D for multitasking.
A lot of “Israel, Israel, Israel” talk on this site–and I am no fan of the moneychangers but so many here ignore one simple fact—Saudi Arabia is Iran’s #1 enemy and the Saudi’s and Iranians are the 2 big players in the ME.
It was the Saudis–19 of them if I remember, who won the coin flip and decided to kick the whole mess off. It was the Saudis who wanted their little brother to have access to pipelines through Syria ( of note: Qatar was one of the original OPEC members but when they saw Assad wasn’t going to be deposed for them, they threw a hissy and left OPEC in Dec 2018.)
It is the Saudis and Iranians fighting a de facto war against each other in Yemen while native Yemenis have their country turned into a wasteland ( although it was mostly a geologic wasteland well before.)
It’s the Saudis–sometimes you really DO need to just follow the money/oil.
BOOM! On target! Chip
wise man….too bad there are so few in leadership.
… at the edge of their border.
I read an article that said Iran is getting desperate as sanctions are biting them hard. It suggested that Iran is trying to provoke things in hope that other western nations will pressure the US to let up on the sanctions. Shooting down that drone, whether over their water or international water is a significant escalation.
This could go badly. Iran, if the article mentioned above is correct, may well keep provoking until the US bombs it, as they see it as a way of getting other nations involved. The analysis said it is illogical, but not entirely inconsistent with the way Iran sees the world.
Well, we are imposing sanctions on Iran. Not unlike what we did to Japan prior to Pearl Harbor… Chip
Yup,
Like cornering a wild animal until it’s back is against the wall,
Eventually the animal’s survival instinct will kick in and it will lash out.
I don’t doubt what LLPOH posited above…fits in with the Bilderbergers and CFR members desire to destroy the last remaining trust and legitimacy of the United States and usher in a multipolar hegemony with China and Russia as the lead…
An epic FALL must occur for the U.S. economy! The first leg of this FALL began in 2008 and has been papered over for over 10 years…
A repositioning of “assets” and leveling of standard of living for the West and the rest of the world is currently underway.
It’s possible–also worth noting is that younger Iranians ( their millenials) are not so hot on the Ayatollah and a theological society. Many of the youth are more secular and enjoy Western trappings. TPTB in Iran might be surmising that a few bombs launched from western nations, blowing up their favorite coffee shops, internet cafes and after-hour clubs might bring the young back into the fold………..
They’ve been under sanctions for 40 years … they are certainly not feeling any more pressure now.
Anon – that is absurd. They are being prevented from selling the one thing they have of value. And they are nearing economic collapse.
It is the war pigs in the US that is provoking Iran, not the other way around.
Maybe we should all say fuck it and embrace the God-awful suck that is coming because The Evil Fuckers want it again:
“Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter’d with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar’s spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch’s voice
Cry ‘Havoc,’ and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.”
– Mark Antony
Act 3, Scene 1, ” Julius Caesar”.
William Shakespeare
(The Bard really said it best, don’t you think?)
Do you realize Shakespeare was talking about what we would now consider war crimes? “Havoc” was the term at the time that would equate to “it’s a free fire zone and you can keep anything you can carry”….the dogs of war being the infantry/conscripts who are going to get “paid” with booty (literally and figuratively) post-victory.
War is part of the human condition…..even chimpanzee’s wage war of conquest so it is likely an adaptive trait in great apes though I don’t see Orangutans and Gorrilla’s committing genocide.
Thus the hypocrisy of modern life…..war is in our nature to pretend otherwise is just wrong we would be better off fighting wars to the finish with every weapon in our arsenal when necessary and otherwise not screwing around. These wars of empire are the root of our destruction and drain our strength in advance of the upcoming “big one”…..
The United States stepped in to cover Great Britian’s ass in Iran. Read your history, who deposed Mosaddeegh when he went to nationalize the oil companies, the British oil company AIOC in 1953? That’s when sanctions were instated, shortly there after in a coup created by the US and Britain, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi was installed, and the rest is history. BTW: Iran has the fourth largest oil reserve on the planet. Look at what happened to Kadaffi in Libya, history repeated, Kadaffi killed and who all now controls Libyan oil? In the Middle East it’s always ultimately about the oil….
Mosaddegh had sought to audit the documents of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), a British corporation (now part of BP) and to limit the company’s control over Iranian oil reserves.[11] Upon the refusal of the AIOC to co-operate with the Iranian government, the parliament (Majlis) voted to nationalize Iran’s oil industry and to expel foreign corporate representatives from the country.[12][13][14] After this vote, Britain instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil to pressure Iran economically.[15] Initially, Britain mobilized its military to seize control of the British-built Abadan oil refinery, then the world’s largest, but Prime Minister Clement Attlee opted instead to tighten the economic boycott[16] while using Iranian agents to undermine Mosaddegh’s government.[17]:3 Judging Mosaddegh to be unreliable and fearing a Communist takeover in Iran, UK prime minister Winston Churchill and the Eisenhower administration decided to overthrow Iran’s government, though the predecessor Truman administration had opposed a coup, fearing the precedent that Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) involvement would set.[17]:3 British intelligence officials′ conclusions and the UK government’s solicitations were instrumental in initiating and planning the coup, despite the fact that the U.S. government in 1952 had been considering unilateral action (without UK support) to assist the Mosaddegh government.[18][19][2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
Are they a step ahead or a step behind in their efforts to weaponize conflicts?
The Palestinian struggle has more value in the Middle East than continuous destabilizing efforts conducted by all sides. It will be interesting to see if there will be leadership in the direction of supporting the Palestinian struggle and scaling back conflicts against Innocents.
Sadly, it will be very interesting, in hindsight – Israel’s Palestinian apartheid wasn’t recognized as the canary in our human coal mine.
Few “World Leaders” understand that the plight of the Palestinians is one that Zionist intend for all “Innocents”. Those that do understand won’t do anything about it.
There are other leaders besides “World Leaders”.
Forgive me if I’m wrong but I thought Israel has offered Palestinians their own free, independent country 5 times already but been turned down?
Offers from Israeli leaders appease international community officials as does offers from the PLO and Hamas.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10213/hamas-new-charter
From a few videos I have seen, some Palestinian children are taught how and why to justify violence against Israelis.
I have read quotes by female (Jewish) zionists which starkly emphasize ethnic cleansing onto Palestinians.
The key problem with any offers from Israel, Israel is expansionistic.
This article may be an example of the Saudis Sunnis First emphasis.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/06/18/the-arab-emergency-summit-in-mecca-provocative-and-invective/
This article may be an example of using the idea of scaling back conflicts against Innocents as support for a specific globalistic expansion.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/06/16/putin-lavrov-and-xi-call-for-an-end-to-mad-lord-russells-spectre-frowns/
That’s why he’s called ‘the Bard’ but really, nobody talks like that.
Somebody must have calculated that an attack would hurt his re-election chances at this point. We just need a little more media propaganda against Iran and one more really good false flag… coming in 3… 2… 1…
Do not need false flags. Iran is providing real ones at this point. They may be being provoked, but shooting down the drone was quite real. Don’t know about the tankers, but it seems more likely now that it may indeed have been Iran. They seem willing to keep poking at this stage.
Come on, you’re smarter than that. The Japanese delegation was in Iran to talk about trade, and Iran bombed a Japanese oil tanker while the talks are taking place? Does it not rattle around in your brain how fucking dumb that sounds? And shooting down an enemy spy drone violating your air space is provocation? You’ve got it totally backwards- we’re doing everything we can to goad Iran into war.
Umm, yes, shooting down the spy plane over water was seriously provocative given the circumstances. “But we gotta protect our airspace from an unarmed drone! Miles over water! Even though it may result in us getting the shit bombed out of us, all our radar being destroyed, our ports crippled, etc.” Are you shitting me? If they will shoot down that drone, it is certainly possible they will bomb the tankers. They are possibly, even likely seems to me, provoking an incident, hoping that the Brits, France, Germany etc will then step in and get the sanctions reduced.
Iran has zero compunction in sacrificing the lives of its citizens. Never has had. They would do that with nary the blink of an eye.
I am not certain re the tankers. But shooting down the drone was either an accident that the perpetrator will likely pay for with his life, or an intentional provocation. Because shooting down that drone overwater was not necessary, and was a very serious risk given the circumstances.
I agree, just b/c there are false flags, some people see EVERYTHING as a false flag of conspiracy. Iran has its own internal problems and chanting death to America, calling the US the great Satan and trying to poke at the US and other countries helps them internally. It feeds the narrative of strength they want to promote, and invites an overreaction that could help the secular types in Iran that don’t buy the religious leaders garbage. But its a dangerous game they are playing, since the US has some people that look for reasons to bomb, or fabricate them.
Shooting down a drone is not a false flag. Everyone involved has the telemetry as to where it was … either it was in Iranian space or not. I know I don’t trust the US to tell the truth about it.
But you’ll trust Iran…yeah…ok
lol
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-21/iran-says-it-refrained-shooting-down-us-plane-35-people-board
The spy plane was supposedly flying nearby the drone that was shot down.
This isn’t the first time Iran and U.S. drones made the headlines either, remember 2011?
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1209/Downed-US-drone-How-Iran-caught-the-beast
There’s only one group of people wanting a war with Iran and we all know who they are.
I will say this dispensationalism has got to be one of the most backwards lies ever toss out on white people. It has blinded them as millions upon millions think the imposters that call themselves Jews are God’s chosen people. I suggest you all do a little research on CI Scofield and how this lying crook could have ever been allowed to join an elite social club in New York City who’s members were mostly wealthy Jews. Or how these Jews helped Scofield get his lies published. Tell me Pastor or anyone else. Scofield was a liar and a thief who abandon his wife and children. This is just a few of his crimes. How anyone would believe what this man conned up is well I just don’t know. Hey Meathead any thoughts ?
BB – Israel is no fan if Iran, for sure and certain. Israel would do perhaps anything to prevent Iran from getting nukes, and I mean perhaps anything. Would they pressure the US, set up false flags, lie, manipulate, bribe, coerce, lobby, etc etc etc? Oh yes. They would love for the US to take out Iran.
Would they nuke Iran? I suspect so. Because Iran has said they want Israel destroyed, and have never changed that position. And Israel has a tendency of believing those type comments.
It is in the US interest that Iran not get nukes, if for no other reason than Israel very well might set Iran alight if it seems imminent. How far the US should go to prevent that possibility is the question. Sanctions? War? I would not like to see that, and I would tend to suggest they be left to sort it out themselves. But the probability that Israel would sort it vigorously out seems very high to me.
Funny how no one during the first eighteen centuries of Christianity figured out this dispensationalism. Run this “rapture” idea past any learned member of any of the apostolic churches – including the Copts, the Orthodox, the Assyrians, the Chaldeans and they’ll look at you like you have two heads. Maybe they haven’t read enough Left Behind comic books.
Are you sure about the Assyrian and the Chaldean apostolic churches?
Yes, what’s left of them, after the regime-change wars fomented by Israel. Notice that Israel never gives a flying fuck about Christians in the Middle East. Not just talking about Palestinian Christians in Bethlehem, but everywhere. Assad provided shelter for Christians in Syria, while ISIS was literally butchering them, yet Israel was all about deposing Assad and didn’t even feign any interest in ISIS until they figured out that some Americans were noticing the Sunni slaughterhouses.
god-damned zionists want a war, and by god, their are going to get their “lackeys” the USA to give them one…and get the USA into one…
If I had my way, Israel would be turned into a glass parking lot and every zionist around the world would be deported to israel where they can be monitored, controlled, and unable to wreak their havoc on the world.
And there it is. Genocide rears its head, anti-Constitutionalist rears its head. Fear of contrary ideas showing through in all its splendor. Fear is a terrible thing. Abandoning the values of the Constitution does not bother anarchyst at all, it seems.
I see our resident hasbara jew-lover or jew zionist israeli is spouting off again.
Where is it in the Constitution that our “government” has the right to interfere in another country’s political system and affairs? Oops, I forgot. Llpoh’s Israel is the only country that can interfere in another country’s affairs AND GET AWAY WITH IT. Murdering Iranian nuclear scientists and interfering in Iran’s political affairs is but the latest. It is interesting to note that Iranian jews (yes, there is a sizable population of jews within Iran) want nothing to do with the present demonization of Iran by Israel and the USA…
I have never defended Israel interfering anywhere. I do however understand it. I have never suggested any nation be destroyed, or genocide be committed, unlike you. I have never suggested evicting people from the nation, unlike you, contrary to Constitutional protections. I do not advocate for denying Constitutional protections, unlike you. That is despicable and shows your complete lack of character and values on which the US was founded.
If Israel is murdering Iranians, that is for them to sort out. But given Iran wants Israel destroyed, I guess I understand why Israel might do so. None of my business either way.
But if you think it is not in the interest of the US that Israel not destroy Iran, then you are an even bigger idiot than you often appear. The question is whether the US should take any action whatsoever, economic or otherwise. Probably not.
Anal cyst is a wild card, we keep him around for shits and giggles.
Who died and made israel the arbiter of who may possess nuclear arms in the middle east?
Every country knows that a nuclear strike would not respect borders and is not advised.
israel wields its nuclear ability with disregard and abandon. It is only when they are challenged that they cry “anti-semitism” although most israelis are NOT semitic.
If a nuclear device is “lit off” in an American or European city, it will have Israel’s fingerprints all over it. Israel is desperate to keep the American money spigot running, as well as sabotaging the Palestinian “peace process” that the world wants it to take seriously.
In fact, if a nuclear device is “lit off” anywhere in the world, it will have come from Israel’s secret nuclear “stockpile”.
Israel refuses to abide by IAEA guidelines concerning its nukes as they are already distributed around the world. Israel would not be able to produce all of them as most of them are not in Israel, proper. No delivery systems are needed as Israel’s nukes are already in place. Look for another false flag operation with the blame being put on Iran or Syria. You can bet that some Iranian or Syrian passports will be found in the rubble.
Israel also threatens to detonate nuclear devices in several US cities. Talk about total INSANITY; the so-called Samson Option is it.
As an aside, American foreign aid is prohibited from being given to any country that has not signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (the Symington Amendment) or refuses to abide by International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) guidelines regarding its nuclear devices. Guess what?? Israel does not abide by EITHER and still gets the majority of American foreign aid. This prohibition also applies to countries that do not register their agents of a foreign government with the U S State Department. Guess what?? Israel (again) with its American Israel Political Action Committee (AIPAC) still gets “foreign aid” in contravention of American law..
There are forty or so congressmen, senators and thousands of high-level policy wonks. infecting the U S government who hold dual citizenship with Israel. Such dual citizenship must be strictly prohibited. Those holding dual citizenship must be required to renounce said foreign citizenship. Refusal to do so should result in immediate deportation with loss of American citizenship. Present and former holders of dual citizenship should never be allowed to serve in any American governmental capacity.
In addition, any American citizen who serves in a foreign military (Israel Defense Forces) should automatically lose their American citizenship.
When Netanyahu addressed both houses of congress, it was sickening to see our politicians slobber all over themselves to PROVE that they were unconditional supporters of Israel. It was a scene out of the Soviet Politburo where every jewish or Israel supporter tried to outdo the others with the applause. Just who the hell do they work for? Certainly not for the interests of the American people and the United States. They should be required to renounce their United States citizenship and be deported to Israel where they belong.
anarchyst says: “Who died and made israel the arbiter of who may possess nuclear arms in the middle east?”
Iran had advocated for the destruction of Israel. It is that simple. So, if I were Israeli, I would take them at their word. I suspect that Israel does indeed believe that Iran might use nukes against them, given their position re destroying Israel.
So, given Israel has been threatened, and guven Iran is likely trying to get nukes, it is rational that Israel would use any means it can to prevent that happening. It is likely trying to get the US to stop it. But barring that, it is certainly within the realm of possibility that Israel might, as you so eloquently put it, decide to “glass over” Iran. It is not my business. But I do know how I would likely respond if anyone threatened to kill my family.
They are both Theocracies and deserve each other..
And again anarchyst wants to wipe out Constitutional rights of US citizens.
I have no issue with stopping dual citizenship. But forcing US citizens out of the nation because of their beliefs is despicable and contrary to the very foundation of the country and contrary to the freedom of thought and expression that the Constitution guarantees its citizens.
It’s one thing to oppose the ziocons, it’s too much to suggest turning anywhere into a glass parking lot – even though I understand the sentiment. I’d add Mecca to the list of possible parking lots, but let’s hope it doesn’t get to that.
People over estimate the capabilities of nuclear bombs. It all sounds so tidy, bomb a place and it leaves a smooth glass surface. A nuke is not the Death Star and Trump is not Darth Vader. What we have are bottle rockets we can use to bomb an anthill.
Iska – any efforts to influence US decision making should be opposed. But it is entirely understandable why ANY nation or people would attempt to influence events in their favor. That does not mean the US, or others, should be influenced.
Amen, brother anarch. It’s rumored that if Iran is attacked by the U.S. (Israhell’s attack dog), that it will launch a full scale missile attack (up to 10,000) on Israhell. We can only hope and pray that this might be true as Iran could remove the infested boil that’s been the constant pain on the ass of the world.
Israel would likely nuke Iran into dust. Immediately. So much for that plan.
Probably not a good idea.
Iran may or may not have nukes but Pakistan most definitely does.
They likely wouldn’t stand by and let next door neighbour be ground to dust..
and they are crazy enuf to…..
over Tel Aviv
And besides Chief the view from that grandstand you’re in is ridiculous anyways…
Not productive, in my opinion
Stop being a Debbie Downer ..
The fact that Israel has its own nuclear deterrent is why we shouldn’t have to be in the region at all, especially siding with Mohammed Bone Saw and his band of goat fuckers over the relatively civilized Persians.
China a Persia were civilized when Europe was still clothed in animal skins.
. . . Yay . . . and “Thank you!” Surely we have better reasons to destroy the world and ever’body in it than just over some liquid dirt. /s
Good Thing Iran’s Fingers Aren’t so Itchy on the Trigger …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
The USA dominates all competitors vying to be ‘The World’s Biggest Hypocrite’.
On July 3, 1988, the USS Vincennes, Guided Missile Cruiser, shot down Iran Air flight 655, killing 290 civilian passengers over Iranian territorial waters. The US initially denied responsibility, then claimed the Vincennes was “protecting” neutral shipping in the Persian Gulf when the “mistake” occurred.
The Iranians didn’t shoot back, they sued the US in the International Court of Justice and the US tried to “settle” the matter by offering families up to $250,000.
The path forward is clear. Trump should send a C-130 stacked with pallets of $100 bills to Iran with a note explaining that it is pre-paid compensation for shooting down ALL Iranian commercial flights, everywhere.
That’s the only war the US can win; one against unarmed civilians.
err we know how to win wars and I am sure you will get an opportunity to see that fact demonstrated up close and personal if the coming conflict comes to US shores (and it likely will) we have had 70 years of “Empire wars”…..to advance our hegemony, pay off the MIC, banksters etc…..winning is counterproductive to keeping troops on the ground, spending more on defense etc….we don’t want to win…… BUT and this is critical don’t let that lull into the belief that we don’t know how to win……..we absolutely do and our military is just as capable of scorched earth “total war” as it ever was. Our “soft” combat troops will be all to eager to destroy everything in front of them (every living thing)….makes their lives and jobs that much easier.
Now the interesting question is whether with the speed of cutting edge war technologies and weapons systems whether we will have the time to “switch gears” from Empire mode against low tech savages (ME, Afgh, Vietnam, LatAm) to a high tech all dimension conflict with China and Russia (along with a cohort of low tech savages)……Say China launches an all-out cyber assault and hypersonic missiles against military assets, EMP’s and kills our satellites…….in two hours a lot of stuff we count on could be gone (and nobody got nuked, chem attacked, etc.) and that is just the start of the conflict.
I suspect we get crushed in that first attack and our command structure is simply incapable of responding to an overwhelming multipronged effort. Then do we have the redundancy and back up platforms to continue the conflict or have we been strategically defeated? Is suspect we do have lots of space-based shit ($20T of unaccounted for spending went somewhere) but that is just wishful speculation on my part.
You should’ve stopped at… “err”.
Your “Exhibit A” in touting our Military prowess is “we know how to win wars… we don’t want to win…… BUT…don’t let that lull into the belief that we don’t know how to win… that is just wishful speculation on my part.”
Run in circles much? Uncle Sam can’t tie his shoes in a war without tripping over his feet.
It only cost us $5 billion to train five jihadis in Syria, and only trillions to build the F-35 piece of shit that couldn’t shoot down Baron von Richthofen’s biplane, when it is capable of flying at all.
The U.S. hasn’t fought an ‘equal’ adversary since WWII. We’ve been taking a cannon to a rock fight and losing to rocks ever since MacArthur pitched his tent in Tokyo.
For a long time, we’ve had the best military kit of any nation, and it hasn’t won a single war we’ve started. You to surmise that when we go kinetic against Russia, China, and everyone else waiting to dogpile on our rotting “Empire”, that there won’t be nukes or chemical used in the first two hours? As our satellites, bases and fleets are hot-stroked from every direction?
Uh… “err”?
“Say China launches an all-out cyber assault and hypersonic missiles against military assets, EMP’s and kills our satellites…….in two hours a lot of stuff we count on could be gone (and nobody got nuked, chem attacked, etc.) and that is just the start of the conflict.”
Ludicrous and laughable.
With only one EMP in this country, only one attack on a military base, only one space nuke to disable satellite comms… and ALL nukes will get launched ASAP, so they aren’t toasted in their silos or on launch platforms. If this country is attacked, all the popcorn will get popped.
When was the last fistfight you were in that you didn’t immediately bring everything you had until you had to catch your breath? You ever experience that “fact demonstrated up close and personal”, and wait until your nose was flattened to start losing?
The strawman and stupid is so strong and deep with you….BTW our military assets are specifically hardened against EMP so don’t worry cupcake missiles will not be launched to avoid being cooked in their silo’s…..do some open source googling it ain’t hard.
You didn’t refute my broad point (wars of Empire are different than existential conflicts) but you did help to make it….$5B to train Jihadis, can’t think of a better example of the War of Empire approach…..training low tech savages is a fool’s errand and of course nobody expected them to be effective but it certainly justified paying lots of money to military contractors…..owned by MIC alumni! See how that works.
This has been our historical approach and the question I am raising is whether we will pay too high a price given the speed of high tech warfare…..Eg. WWII our military was woefully unprepared for the fight at hand in North Africa but then we got our shit together….McClellan in the Civil War was completely inadequate but Grant and Sherman were highly effective by wars end. Given the 2 hour cycle time….in the initial attack we won’t have time to rethink things….so how bad will it be?
How bad will what be? There won’t be another war of conquest. That’s the profile you’re pimping for the next one.
A ‘World War’ will leave no spoils, no victors. It’ll only happen as a consequence of a ‘miscalculation’ by those who rely on historical wars of conquest, as you have.
WWII, WWI, the Civil War, etc, don’t apply. Those wars were ALL about controlling by OCCUPYING enemy countries. Nobody is going to do that to any other country. Oh, except for the Arabs, who will reclaim Israel after it stops glowing.
Mechanized armies, floating navies, and manned aircraft are soooo “last war”. In the next “World War” everybody will face extinction. If anybody survives it’ll be a miracle.
A real world-wide kinetic war wouldn’t last three days. The sky would be darkened before the first day was over and it would be a long time before the sun reappeared.
That’s how bad it would be..
My last fight, on a crowded Seattle street, was completely unexpected. There was no warning. War is like that, when it’s serious. Sneak attacks work best. Even then, nobody knows…
I was 58 when it occurred. I hadn’t fought since a young punk took off in front of me on a wave six years earlier. There were no punches in that one. I jumped on his back, both hands full of his hair, and held him under until he went limp. I had to be pulled off of him. It was the 2nd time he’d taken off on me and he’d been warned. Stuffing a surfer in the pit on a pitching wave by taking off in front of him is dangerous. I made sure it was.
I didn’t know I was in the Seattle fight until his 2nd punch was on the way. I was stunned by his first punch that sent my glasses into the street. I tucked my chin, stepped into his 2nd punch and felt his soft knuckles crunch on the top of my head stepping on his forward foot, hammering a two-knuckle stroke that cracked his ribs.
Standing on his foot didn’t let him fade my punch and he went down hard, backwards, onto his tailbone. Everybody heard it break. I looked up, saw everyone dialing 5OH, and bolted. Two blocks away I turned left and saw him still laying on the sidewalk, unable to get up.
That was up close and personal, unscripted and without a doubt, my attacker envisioned a different outcome. If Iran is attacked, every vulnerability we have as the ‘softest’, most pussyfied people in the world will be savaged without mercy. Half our nation broke down in tears when Hildebeast lost. China and Russia aren’t concerned about fighting America’s sissies. Our best troops aren’t here, they’re in foreign bases that would be gone in the first two hours of international war.
A war that starts as you described, EMPs, base and satellite attacks, etc. won’t follow anybody’s script, and nobody will get up. Uncle Sam will do his usual in Iran, al la Syria, and stoke an’ internal’ effort to depose the Ayatollahs. We’ll create an Iranian ‘ISIS’ to heat things up kinetically and undermine social stability to help depose the clerics and then make friends. It’s easier to corrupt a friend’s politicians.
Assad is a secularist, and so are the Iranian people. There’s really no need to bomb Iran or Syria with anything except money. That would have a much better and predictable outcome. Ask any politician.
Dio – The US would bitchslap Iran, and there is zero they could do about it. They will send their airforce to any nation that will take them in order to try to save the planes. They will do their best to save their navy. They will be fucked. And if they try to hit Israel, that will be the end of them for generations.
They want the west to intervene and will happily take some minor casualties if that will get the intervention. Going to war with the US or Israel will set them back decades or longer.
The key: no US boots on the ground.
The Key? Got one for the locked-up tumblers in your noggin?
Yeah, bitchslapping Iran would be a piece of cake. If we fired all of our guns at once. That’s a big IF. As soon as the yarn starts unspooling in the Levant, China goes after Taiwan and Russia bitchslapps the Ukraine – and NATO too if it sticks its neck out.
The military’s think tanks have war-gamed all of it and we come up losers every time.
You confused (Intentionally? No, you’re that stupid.) “…and there is zero they could do about it.”… with what the reality: There is nothing that Iran could do to stop us from turning their critical infrastructure into smoldering ruins and put them back in the stone age…. BUT
But after the smoke clears, there’s plenty that Iran could, and would, do ABOUT it. Plenty, and not just to the US. Its proxy forces would be all up in Israel’s ass.
Taking the entire U.S. grid down would be a relatively simply operation; it needn’t be kinetic. We would be too busy trying to keep nuke plants from melting and bitchslapping our neighbors to care about bombing another country anywhere, ever.
In the meantime, Israel has no ‘resupply’ available, and is completely surrounded by neighbors with long-standing, deadly grudges that won’t expire until they do. Nobody is going to ‘intervene’ in their massacre, and they know it.
While we are pussified currently that changes very quickly when bullets are whizzing past your head, they make a very characteristic crack…..one you don’t forget and one that you learn from extremely quickly or die trying!…. This is always how it works….our “Doughboys” in WWI were pussified until they weren’t…same for our current millennials Gen Z snowflakes. They will rise to the occasion if given the chance. My question that I want to hear your thoughts on….Given the state of technology….will the recruits/generals/mobilization of resources have the time to respond and develop?
Surfer culture is some of the most fucked up tribalism I have ever seen and I was only marginally involved. “It’s our spot”….with slashed tires, rocks, fights on the beach, fights in the water…..most surfers are blithering assholes IMHO at least the ones I encountered in So Cal from St. Barbara to San Diego.
Finally, not just one, but two opinions you have that I agree with 100%.
1. “Surfer culture is some of the most fucked up tribalism I have ever seen and I was only marginally involved… slashed tires, rocks, fights on the beach, fights in the water…..most surfers are blithering assholes…” Nailed it. Except every surfer I’ve know ‘can be’ a blithering asshole and they all enjoy being one when they are ; ^ /
I would add that surfer ‘tribalism’ isn’t an entirely bad thing. It teaches one to tread lightly and show respect among new tribes. There’s no ‘Equal Opportunity” or “Affirmative Action” in the lineup. A spot in the lineup is EARNED, more than once. Nobody is entitled to paddle out to the prime takeoff zone until they’ve proven that they belong, usually the hard way.
It’s how all tribes behave if they have a very valuable resource that every stranger wants.
2. “…bullets are whizzing past your head, they make a very characteristic crack…..one you don’t forget…”
Yessir. I know. The crack is even louder when the bullet smacks a tree just above your head.
I know you’re full of hype, too: “… and one that you learn from extremely quickly or die trying.”
Yeah, like you know from experience, pussy. Better avoid Surfer beaches. They’ll make a loud crack on your ass.
Why is it that all surf culture is vaguely homoerotic? I did give you the upvote….
Vaguely?
Like, two dicks upvoting my ass ‘vague’?
2nd dick, anyone?
As background as to why Israel is doing all possible to prevent Iran getting nukes, here are a few comments made by Iran and associates in recent times:
Mohammad Khatami, the former president of Iran: “If we abide by real legal laws, we should mobilize the whole Islamic world for a sharp confrontation with the Zionist regime … if we abide by the Koran, all of us should mobilize to kill.” (2000)
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei: “It is the mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran to erase Israel from the map of the region.” (2001)
Hassan Nasrallah, a leader of Hezbollah: “If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.” (2002)
Nasrallah: “Israel is our enemy. This is an aggressive, illegal, and illegitimate entity, which has no future in our land. Its destiny is manifested in our motto: ‘Death to Israel.’” (2005)
Yahya Rahim Safavi, the former commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps: “With God’s help the time has come for the Zionist regime’s death sentence.” (2008)
Mohammad Hassan Rahimian, Khamenei’s representative to the Moustazafan Foundation: “We have manufactured missiles that allow us, when necessary to replace [sic] Israel in its entirety with a big holocaust.” (2010)
Mohammad Reza Naqdi, the commander of the Basij paramilitary force: “We recommend them [the Zionists] to pack their furniture and return to their countries. And if they insist on staying, they should know that a time while arrive when they will not even have time to pack their suitcases.” (2011)
Khamenei: “The Zionist regime is a cancerous tumor and it will be removed.” (2012)
Ahmad Alamolhoda, a member of the Assembly of Experts: “The destruction of Israel is the idea of the Islamic Revolution in Iran and is one of the pillars of the Iranian Islamic regime. We cannot claim that we have no intention of going to war with Israel.” (2013)
Nasrallah: “The elimination of Israel is not only a Palestinian interest. It is the interest of the entire Muslim world and the entire Arab world.” (2013)
Hojateleslam Alireza Panahian, the advisor to Office of the Supreme Leader in Universities: “The day will come when the Islamic people in the region will destroy Israel and save the world from this Zionist base.” (2013)
Hojatoleslam Ali Shirazi, Khamenei’s representative in the Revolutionary Guard: “The Zionist regime will soon be destroyed, and this generation will be witness to its destruction.” (2013)
Khamenei: “This barbaric, wolflike & infanticidal regime of Israel which spares no crime has no cure but to be annihilated.” (2014)
Hossein Salami, the deputy head of the Revolutionary Guard: “We will chase you [Israelis] house to house and will take revenge for every drop of blood of our martyrs in Palestine, and this is the beginning point of Islamic nations awakening for your defeat.” (2014)
Salami: “Today we are aware of how the Zionist regime is slowly being erased from the world, and indeed, soon, there will be no such thing as the Zionist regime on Planet Earth.” (2014
If Israel has 200 sub-based nukes, they should make it abundantly clear that an attack on Israel would mean the destruction of not only Teheran and Qom but also Riyadh, Medina and, yes, Mecca. Throw in Peshawar and Islamabad. If the prospect of the end of the Hajj doesn’t dissuade the Iranians – and it might not – then our bombing their reactors won’t do anything more than set them back a mere 20 years (a blink of an eye in civilizational terms) and increase their resolve for revenge. Moreover, as you said above, Israel can agitate for what it wants, but we’re under no obligation to give it to them.
Umm
Paks have nukes too!
Not a good idea
You just explained why, if I had a six-pack of nukes to give away, I’d give ’em all to Grand Ayatollah Khomeini, with my fondest hope for lasting success with his Israeli Insect Eradication Program.
I find it fascinating that many comments on both this article and the previous article tend to support enemies of America. Strange but true.
Trump knows the Israelis are pulling the strings. He is still – I think – enough of a patriot and astute enough to withstand their pressure to stampede us into a catastrophic war. Maybe I am wrong……….
Kushner is unavailable from Friday evening through Saturday evening.
So this shit stopped long enough for other people to talk some sanity back into Trump:
