Greg, John, Razib, and Me

Guest Post by Fred Reed

A good bit more now than a decade ago I was a member of Steve Sailer’s HBD (Human Biodiversity) mailing list. This dealt with (who would have thought it’) human biodiversity, meaning such things as evolution, racial differences, evolutionary psychology, and genetics. It was a bright and usually congenial group, if doctrinaire, from which I was dropped for, I think, apostasy. My sin, as best I could tell, was expressing doubts about Darwinism. This is something that One Doesn’t Do.

Among the members were Greg Cochran, a physicist; John Derbyshire, a mathematician by training and political philosopher by preference; and Razib Khan, currently a brilliant geneticist. All seemed decent sorts. Of all it could be said that if self-assurance were oil, they could use Saudi Arabia as a doorstop.

The list tolerated my heterodoxy, barely, for a bit. Several said that I wanted to destroy science. I would have thought this beyond my powers, but perhaps I underestimate myself. Finally Razib exploded in fury at questions I asked, deleted everything by or about me on his website, Gnxp.com, did not answer my questions, and threatened to banish from Gnxp all of what he called “Fred Reed clones.”

This seemed excessive in response to a negligible blogger expressing curiosity about evolution. However I was made to understand that I had done the Darwinian equivalent of questioning the tripartite nature of Christ. I was, Razib said, arrogant.

This in particular surprised me. I had asked questions. A question is an admission of ignorance. How is that arrogant? I had made, and make, no claims to authority in genetics or related fields. I have none and pretend to none. That is why I asked simple questions. They were the only kind I could ask.

Well, all right, I thought. The web is a dark and savage place, rather like a biker bar though with higher syllabic density. And Razib wasn’t unique. There are in fact others on the web who dislike me.I find incomprehensible as I am sure that I am a splendid fellow.

Well and good. Then, a few months back, I found on the Unz Review a piece by John Derbyshire, in which he denounced Intelligent Design. This–ID–is the view that life looks more designed than accidental. Seething Darwinians equate doubts about evolutionary mechanisms with ID, and then with Biblical Creationism, and then with snake-handling primitive Baptists with three teeth in North Carolina. This chain has more of polemical convenience than of logical connection, but never mind.

Derbyshire’s article was more a credo than an argument, amounting to a long exhalation of haughty disdain (John is British) approximating: “ah, well, you know, these poor fools, what can you expect from such benighted, oh, ‘tis sad,” and the like.

Since he is quite bright, it is possible that he knows a great deal of the biological bases of doubts about Le Grand Chuck, but if so, he keeps it to himself.

Razib, however, is another matter. He certainly has the intelligence and training to dispel simple doubts about aspects of evolution. If he can’t, it is likely that nobody can. He is said not to suffer fools gladly, but perhaps he would suffer this one shortly.

But first, an apology to readers. Some of this requires more familiarity with matters evolutionary than constitutes a reasonable allocation of time for those with good sense. Providing background would require tens of thousands of words. I beg indulgence. Anyway, questions, some of which got me consigned to HBD perdition.

First, from what simpler coding system did the three-nucleotides-per-codon system arise by gradual and beneficial steps? Two nucleotides and a maximum of sixteen aminos? This seems to me a straightforward question about a simple and well-understood coding mechanism which, lacking a clear answer, would seem irreducibly complex.

Second, male homosexuality seems evolutionarily mysterious. It is not clear how one passes along one’s genes by not passing them along, or at least not to women, which would seem an evolutionarily necessary part of the transference. Greg Cochran solved this apparently intractable puzzle by postulating that a virus caused homosexuality. Has this virus been found? If not, might one suspect its nonexistence?

Third, can the evolution of Behe’s flagellum by gradual beneficial steps from earlier structures be explained? An answer, to be an answer, will require a chain of specific events and an explanation of the benefits that would keep them in existence while awaiting the next step.

The only answers I have seen to the foregoing questions have been that although we do not know the answer now, we do not doubt that answers will eventually be found. Yet while the assertion that answers will one day be found cannot be refuted, it is equally consistent with the possibility that there are no answers.

Fourth, if I may, a question more philosophical than technical regarding the chance beginning of life:

Molecular biology has existed for a considerable time and is now a mature science. How many more years, decades, or centuries must pass without the mechanism of abiogenesis being found before it becomes permissible to ask whether it actually happened? The simpler we posit the first life to have been, the harder to explain why millions of scientists have not found it, and the more complex we posit it to have been, the less likely that it happened at all.

The question has no specific answer, but brings to mind the Philosopher’s Stone, perpetual motion, phlogiston, and the luminiferous ether.

Fifth, evolution is said to retain the beneficial and discard the neutral or deleterious. An almost unlimited list of traits that seem to violate this principle can be adduced.

For example,nerve tissue in the kidneys makes kidney stones agonizing to the point of paralysis. Yet there was nothing at all the victim could do about kidney stones until recent times. What is the survival benefit of such nerves? Similarly, what is the benefit to survival of migraines? The victim can do nothing, and curling up on the ground and screaming seems of limited value.

Sixth, more a comment than a question: Just as Cochran’s Virus, for which there is no evidence, seems a desperate attempt to explain the evolutionarily embarrassing matter of male homosexuality; and the Multiverse, for which there is no evidence, to explain the appearance of Anthropic Principle; and Punctuated Equilibrium to explain the absence of desired fossils, so RNA World, for which as far as I know there is no convincing, much less persuasive, evidence, seems an unsupported attempt to avoid the apparently inexplicable disinclination of abiogenesis to have happened.

En fin, since the aforementioned men seem to want to vanquish doubters, and a large public interests itself in these matters, there would seem a chance to put paid to the doubts above. I cannot imagine that a geneticist would need more than half an hour.

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25 Comments
M G
M G
October 10, 2019 4:55 pm

The chicken or the egg again?

Donkey
Donkey
October 10, 2019 6:07 pm

God is not dead.

Anonymous
Anonymous
October 10, 2019 6:18 pm

Too deep for me. I’m close to needing my name stenciled in my skivvies.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
  Anonymous
October 10, 2019 6:37 pm

Sharpies work well for that and the writing seems to last through several washes.

Apple
Apple
October 10, 2019 6:19 pm

Explain the caterpillar to butterfly using darwin. Just no way for a four lifecycle crwature to evolve in numbers needed to reproduce.

When you are done explain evolution of the eye.

motley
motley
  Apple
October 10, 2019 9:04 pm

Other topics for consideration … 1) how hemoglobin ‘evolved’ 2) the incredible development and of enzymes in our body .. good luck explaining that one … once you understand the complexity of the multitude of processes they undertake … Having said that …. Apple nailed it with the eye. Evolutionists prefer to gloss over issues such as this. The eye is an absolute masterpiece of creation once one is able to comprehend the manner in which it functions.

bigfoot
bigfoot
October 10, 2019 6:25 pm

What I want to know is how what was first to exist came into being. Saying there is no beginning and no end helps me not! Oh well. At this point it is enough for me to believe in reincarnation and that that is the cure for all that ails us, which is mostly the ignoring of the Golden Rule.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  bigfoot
October 11, 2019 10:48 am

Genesis 1:1…

LOST BRASS
LOST BRASS
October 10, 2019 8:22 pm

Get you a Bible and read
Luke and John

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  LOST BRASS
October 11, 2019 10:47 am

Why read law books?

Read Romans or Ephesians as they are written to you.

TampaRed
TampaRed
  grace country pastor
October 11, 2019 8:06 pm

read it all

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  TampaRed
October 11, 2019 10:02 pm

You are right of course, I should say start with Romans…

Wolverine
Wolverine
October 10, 2019 9:44 pm

Fred,

Like your work but almost never comment. I would like to share my thoughts on your six questions in reverse order, but first a little background.

Raised in a Christian, middle class family with 5 kids in a 1200 sq, ft. house in a mid-western college town. Attended bible study and church until age 14 when my questions couldn’t be answered satisfactorily. Was a Boy Scout from age 11 until I became a Life Scout but never became an Eagle scout because I discovered women (13 yrs, old), Still married to that special lady 50+ years later. I was agnostic for the next 20 +/- years until we started having children. I abhorred organized religion but was in absolute wonderment (awe) of the natural world – the birth of a child, the bloom of a flower, the magic of RNA and DNA

In my first year at the University of Michigan, Astronomy 100, I used limit theory to prove that organic life must, absolutely exist in the universe and was given a “C” grade. The professor either didn’t understand the math or liked the novelty of the idea but didn’t believe it.

A Note: The Ford Motor Company in the early 1970’s, the executive typing pool could not get the error rate under 2% no matter what they tried. Maybe mother nature has the same problem.

Nature, like Ford, is subject to an error rate no matter what, Homosexuality is a birth defect like cleft palate or any of a myriad of other birth defects except this is not visible at birth. The plains Indians had mechanism for dealing with them that didn’t allow then to proliferate but didn’t subject them to undue discrimination.

“Fifth, evolution is said to retain the beneficial and discard the neutral or deleterious. An almost unlimited list of traits that seem to violate this principle can be adduced.” WRONG! Deleterious traits may be evolved against but not neutral. Why do modern humans have constantly growing nails?

“How many more years, decades, or centuries must pass without the mechanism of abiogenesis being found before it becomes permissible to ask whether it actually happened? ” It is clear that it has happened, as we are here. That we do not know the exact process does not mean that it didn’t happen. It just illuminates how much we still don’t know.

“Third, can the evolution of Behe’s flagellum by gradual beneficial steps from earlier structures be explained? ” It is clear from other evolutionary developments that this is true even when we can’t find the appropriate fossils.

“Second, male homosexuality seems evolutionarily mysterious. ” NO, it is a birth defect. Like many others it is not visible at birth.

“First, from what simpler coding system did the three-nucleotides-per-codon system arise by gradual and beneficial steps? Two nucleotides and a maximum of sixteen aminos? This seems to me a straightforward question about a simple and well-understood coding mechanism which, lacking a clear answer, would seem irreducibly complex.”

At some time in my 30″s it dawned on me that the universe was absolutely amazing. That “the three-nucleotides-per-codon system ” or the ” Two nucleotides and a maximum of sixteen aminos? ” exist because that is their nature. The building blocks of life are built in to the very nature of all of the elements. Amino acids rain down on us from the heavens every day. If they land in a Goldilocks environment, life will out.

Zach
Zach
  Wolverine
October 11, 2019 9:21 am

Amino acids do not rain down from the heavens. Even if they did, they would exist in both L and R configuration, which is inimical to life. Even if only L amino acids rained down, there is no viable mechanism for condensation of proteins which are essential to life. The only source of proteins is living organisms, which cannot exist without proteins. So which came first? Darwin had no idea how life originated. Darwinists tend toward the “hocus pocus millions of years and something happened” theory as an explanation while claiming to love science.

mark branham
mark branham
October 10, 2019 10:53 pm

In the beginning, God created evolution. It proceeds with fit’s and starts, sometimes leap-frogging forward… as in the first two true humans.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  mark branham
October 11, 2019 10:55 am

“In the beginning, God created evolution.”

You know that’s not what it says. Evolution is based upon death. “Only the strong survive.”

It was not till Adam sinned that death came into the world. The absurdity that is the theory of evolution is therefore incompatible with Biblical creation.

Stucky
Stucky
  grace country pastor
October 11, 2019 12:49 pm

“It was not till Adam sinned that death came into the world.”

So, Adam never ever accidentally stepped on an ant? Eve never swatted a mosquito? (Or, did God wait until after the Fall to create mosquitoes?) A big fish never ate a little fish? Frogs didn’t eat bugs?

Can you even imagine the ENORMOUS problems that would exist in a world where there is no death, ever? For one thing, life itself would eventually cease to exist. But, I doubt you can grasp that … not if you cling to your fantasy that at one point in time there was no death on this planet.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
October 11, 2019 12:57 pm

psssst… no death for the Chosen Ones. Those carcasses piled around Adam and Eve were invisible. Kind of like all the mass graves that litter this entire world, flat or not. Nobody saw nothing.

Another novena got said for you and yourines (it really is how it’s said by some around these parts)… Some of those Catlickers just won’t stop the bead counting. I am beginning to think it is addictive.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Stucky
October 11, 2019 5:50 pm

Romans 5:12 KJB… “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

Stucky
Stucky
October 11, 2019 12:42 pm

“Fifth, evolution is said to … discard the neutral or deleterious.”

If true, then why does evolution allow GCP to bombard us with bible quotes day and night?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
October 11, 2019 1:05 pm

you are a funny bunny… I will thump you last.

Warning… I have bunnies due from the bitchiest doe I’ve ever had. I have more scratches on my arm from that spotted rabbit than I EVER put onto Nick’s back in our wildest days of yore. So, my foray into raising rabbits for both meat and pelts has now come to this. I do not even LIKE this mother rabbit.

I’m thinking of shitcanning the whole animal husbandry business except for chickens. I have three domestic rabbits now living in and around the old goat crib. I’m determined to cause an ecological blight by introducing fat lazy rabbit DNA into the local rabbit peasantry. I told Nick as soon as this litter of small, nicer pelted rabbits gets weaned, I’m letting that bitch rabbit go live in the goat crib too. I suspect she can hold her own with the wild rabbits. She better hope she can.

I have SCARS on both arms. I’m almost sorry for the buck. He was probably a bloody mess.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Anonymous
October 11, 2019 1:23 pm

I just realized she is like that crazed rabbit on Monty Python.