SouthFront offers a scientific-based survey providing an in-depth look at the real death toll statistics and the spread of SARS-COV-2.
1. The research issued by the Bonn University Hospital
The research issued by the Bonn University Hospital and made by the group of scientists including Prof. Dr. Hendrik Streeck (Institute of Virology), Prof. Dr. Gunther Hartmann (Institute for Clinical Chemistry and Clinical Pharmacology, Spokesman for the Cluster of Excellence ImmunoSensation2), Prof. Dr. Martin Exner (Institute for Hygiene and Public Health), Prof. Dr. Matthias Schmid (Institute for Medical Biometry, Computer Science and Epidemiology).
In the framework of the research, all residents of Germany’s Gangelt were tested on the existence of SARS-CoV-2 infection and antibodies to SARS-CoV-2.
Gangelt is one of the most COVID-19-affected German municipalities. It is believed that the outbreak was caused by the carnival held on February 15, 2020. After the event, several people tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.
Preliminary result: the existing immunity was determined at about 14% (IgG against SARS-CoV2, method specificity>, 99%). About 2% of people had current SARS-CoV-2 infection detected by the method of polymerase chain reaction (PCR). The overal infection rate (the presence of a current infection or antibody in the body) was about 15%. The mortality (mortality rate), based on the total number of infected people in the Gangelt community, is approximately 0.37% based on the preliminary data of this study. The mortality rate based on the total population in the Gangelt is currently 0.06%.
2. A new Epidemiological bulletin from German Robert Koch Institute
A new Epidemiological bulletin from German Robert Koch Institute – “Estimation of the current development of the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in Germany” issued on April 15 confirms that:
“in general, it is true that not all infected people have symptoms, not all who has symptoms go to a doctor’s office, not all who go to the doctor are tested and not all who test positive are recorded in a survey system. In addition, a certain amount of time passes between all these individual steps, so that no data collection system, however good, can make a statement about the current infection process without additional assumptions and calculations.”
Meanwhile, April 18 Daily Situation Report of the Robert Koch Institute shows that 86% of deaths, but only 18% of all cases, occurred in persons aged 70 years or older. The median age was 82 years. Pneumonia was reported in 2,764 cases (3%). COVID-19 related outbreaks continue to be reported in nursing homes and hospitals. In some of these outbreaks, the number of deaths is relatively high. The current estimate is R= 0.8 (95% confidence interval: 0.7-1.0).
3. On 13 April, the German National Academy of Sciences, Leopoldina, published its third ad hoc statement on the COVID-19 pandemic in Germany (the group of 26 Prof. Doctors)
The statement, which supplements its two predecessors, describes strategies for a stepwise lifting or modification of measures against the pandemic, taking into account psychological, social, legal, pedagogic and economic aspects. The document recommends in particular the re-opening of classroom primary and lower-level secondary education as soon as feasible, giving priority to the former, with observation of hygiene and physical distancing measures.
Click to see the full-size image
Click to see the full-size image
The National Academy of Sciences Leopoldina takes a stand with psychological, social, the legal, educational and economic aspects of the pandemic, following key recommendations:
- Optimizing the basis for decision-making: The data collection, which has so far been largely symptom-based, leads to a distorted perception of the infection process. It is therefore important to collect the infection and substantially improve the immunity status of the population, in particular through representative and regional survey of infection and immunity status.
- Enable a differentiated assessment of the risks both for social and individual dealings with the corona pandemic, contextual classification of the available data is important. Data to serious illnesses and deaths must be compared to those of other illnesses and related to the expected risk of death in individual age groups. A realistic one. Presentation of the individual risk must be clearly illustrated. This also applies to systemic risks such as overloading the health system and negative consequences for the economy and society.
- To cushion psychological and social impacts: measures taken for implementation intrinsic motivation based on self-protection and solidarity is more important than the threats of sanctions. Providing a realistic schedule and a clear package of measures for gradual normalization increases the controllability and predictability for everyone. This helps to minimize negative psychological the physical andeffects of the current stress. Firs of all, aid and support should be provided for high-risk groups, such as children, who are particularly affected by the consequences of current restrictions in difficult family situations or people who are exposed to domestic violence must be provided become.
There are more another recommendations in the third ad hoc statement of the German National Academy of Sciences that now are being implemented by German leadership.
4. New research from the United States
Group of authors from Stanford University, Stanford University School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Health Education is Power, Inc., The Compliance Resource Group, Inc., Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Stanford University School of Medicine, Bogan Associates, 8 ARL BioPharma, Inc., Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory, Department of Epidemiology and Population Health, Stanford University School of Medicine, Department of Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine measured the seroprevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Santa Clara County and made some conclusions.
The data received and conclusions of the US team are well corresponding with the research of German Bonn University Hospital taking into account that the German research came out on April 9, and the American one on April 14, with the reasonable assumption that the spread of SARS-CoV-2 in the German city of Gangelt began at least two week earlier (February 15, 2020) than in the American Santa Clara.
The US researchers estimated that under the three scenarios for test performance characteristics, the population prevalence of COVID-19 in Santa Clara ranged from 2.49% (95CI 1.80-3.17%) to 4.16% (2.58-5.70%). These prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50-85-fold more than the number of confirmed cases. Conclusions. The population prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in Santa Clara County implies that the infection is much more widespread than indicated by the number of confirmed cases. Population prevalence estimates can now be used to calibrate epidemic and mortality projections.
5. More data from the United States
Between March 22 and April 4, 2020, a total of 215 pregnant women delivered infants at the New York–Presbyterian Allen Hospital and Columbia University Irving Medical Center. All the women were screened on admission for symptoms of Covid-19. Four women (1.9%) had fever or other symptoms of Covid-19 on admission, and all 4 women tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (Figure 1). Of the 211 women without symptoms, all were afebrile on admission. Nasopharyngeal swabs were obtained from 210 of the 211 women (99.5%) who did not have symptoms of Covid-19; of these women, 29 (13.7%) were positive for SARS-CoV-2. Thus, 29 of the 33 patients who were positive for SARS-CoV-2 at admission (87.9%) had no symptoms of Covid-19 at presentation.
Our use of universal SARS-CoV-2 testing in all pregnant patients presenting for delivery revealed that at this point in the pandemic in New York City, most of the patients who were positive for SARS-CoV-2 at delivery were asymptomatic, and more than one of eight asymptomatic patients who were admitted to the labor and delivery unit were positive for SARS-CoV-2. Although this prevalence has limited generalizability to geographic regions with lower rates of infection, it underscores the risk of Covid-19 among asymptomatic obstetrical patients. Moreover, the true prevalence of infection may be underreported because of false negative results of tests to detect SARS-CoV-2.
6. Hypothesis and justification from a Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at the Milan State University, Italy
The real number of COVID-19 cases in the country could be 5,000,0000 (compared to the 119,827 confirmed ones) according to a study which polled people with symptoms who have not been tested, and up to 10,000,000 or even 20,0000,000 after taking into account asymptomatic cases, according to Carlo La Vecchia, a Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at the Milan State University.
This number would still be insufficient to reach herd immunity, which would require 2/3 of the population (about 40,000,000 people in Italy) having contracted the virus.
The number of deaths could also be underestimated by 3/4 (in Italy as well as in other countries) [source], meaning that the real number of deaths in Italy could be around 60,000.
If these estimates were true, the mortality rate from COVID-19 would be much lower (around 25 times less) than the case fatality rate based solely on laboratory-confirmed cases and deaths, since it would be underestimating cases (the denominator) by a factor of about 1/100 and deaths by a factor of 1/4.
7. SARS-CoV-2 mortality in Italy
As for now, it is a well-known publicly recognized fact that Italy labels anyone who died with a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, regardless of the real causes of death, as the victim of the pandemic. At the same time, the objective fact is the increase of the overall mortality in Italy. According to Istat (Istituto nazionale di statistica), there is a general increase in mortality from all causes ⩾20% from March 1 to April 4, 2020 compared with the average for the same period in 2015-2019. Bergamo is at the top in the growth of mortality among municipalities, + 382.8% of deaths.
However, the mortality grew not only and not so much from the causes associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection.
A few examples:
- Albino town: from February 23 to March 27, 2019 – 24 people died; from February 23 to March 27, 2020 – 145 people (SARS-CoV-2 causes – 30 dead).
- Skandzoroshyate town: from January to March 2019 – 45 deaths; from January to March 2020 – 135 (SARS-CoV-2 – 20 dead).
- San Pellegrino Terme town: March 2019 – 2 deaths, March 2020 – 45 (SARS-CoV-2 – 11 dead).
- These numbers could be explained by the lack of SARS-CoV-2 tests in the specified period.
At the same time, the mortality from other diseases increased significantly in the comparative period of April 1-4, 2020 compared to April 1-4, 2019. The lack of transparence of the Italian system also should be noted. For example, on April 17, Istat said that at that moment it was impossible to draw any conclusions about the increase of the mortality in Italy in general (as well as in regions and provinces) from the data obtained by Istat for the first four months of 2020 and compare it with the same period in 2019. These graphs and tables show statistics:
Click to see the full-size image
8. SARS-CoV-2 mortality in Spain
Spanish Minister of Health Salvador Illa stated that every dead person, that tested positively to SARS-CoV-2, is considered as a SARS-CoV-2 death.
The mathematical model employed by the University of Carlos III in Madrid (Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, UC3M) demonstrates that in the last decade in Spain, an average of 1,150 people die from all causes every day in March. According to the records of acts of civil status, from March 16 (the day quarantine began), the number of daily deaths from all causes began to increase, sometimes reaching 1,400 per day. From March 17 to March 30, 21,243 deaths were recorded in Spain. This is 5,398 more than the prediction based on the extrapolation of data from previous years. The forecasted number for the same period is 15,844 – 34.1% less. At the same time, the total number of deaths from whom SARS-CoV-2 during the period from March 17 to March 30, 2020 was 7,591 people. This is a consequence of the general recognition of SARS-CoV-2 as the cause of deaths regardless of the actual situation. In any case, there is no exponential growth of the overall mortality in Spain or Italy.
- https://www.ine.es
- http://www.elespiadigital.com/index.php/noticias/historico-de-noticias/29014-2020-03-31-14-54-50
- https://www.hoy.es/sociedad/salud/marzo-registra-muertes-20200402124928-ntrc.html
Conclusions
In this survey, we demonstrated the researches and approaches of about 100 eminent scientists from around the world. In general, they agree that the current statistical data does not reflect the actual state of affairs, and the publicly distributed media estimates of the mortality rate are at least incorrect, and do not correspond to the actual picture.
The actual number of people with SARS-CoV-2 infection or people that already passed through COVID-19 early-stage or without symptoms is several dozen times higher than the public numbers show.
This is primarily due to the approaches and scope of testing. The public numbers have little to do with science. This is, to a greater extent, either media or politically motivated data. You should also consider the factor of a special picture of the course of the disease, which affects medical statistics (RKI Epidemiological bulletins).
Accordingly, the real mortality rate from SARS-CoV-2 is 25-60 times less than the figures presented to us by MSM and a number of governments.
The number of people with SARS-CoV-2 virus, but without the COVID-19 disease or with a mild form of the disease, according to various estimates, ranges from 85% to 95%. This group, as a rule, does not fall into official statistics, as it is not tested, not hospitalized, and does not seek medical help.
The negative consequences for life and health of people from ill-conceived social measures can at times surpass the threat posed by SARS-CoV-2. There has been a significant increase in the mortality from diseases unrelated to SARS-CoV-2 already.
Countries, whose leadership works closely with scientists, consistently and quickly responds to changes in the situation and the emergence of new data, will receive a huge advantage in the post-COVID-19 world.
The current actions of politicians in a number of countries are difficult to explain with anything other than incompetence or deliberate actions to achieve their personal/clan political ambitions or promote interests of external actors.
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal
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Estimate this, guess at that, surmise something else and then plug it all into a computer model to add a dash of infallibility. That’s really convincing – only for morons.
All these stats are just bullshit. No one knows a damned thing but lots of people want to conjure up figures to impress the mental midgets how smart they are and to be called upon to give their professional bullshit opinions by TPTsB.
“All models are wrong, but some models are useful.”
– George E. P. Box
I’ll leave it to the readers to determine what they are useful for.
are you incapable of reading?
these are studies of real people.
not models.
So… what are you saying?
How many times has an electron microscope been used to confirm what a person had of the hundreds of thousand cases labeled Covid19? I suspect nearly none.
All the routine (read cheap) testing is bullshit because the PCR test will go positive on multiple things and with huge false positive and negative indicators.
There’s no reliable data whatsoever because the only way to get it is by electron microscopy to actually see the virus and then to eliminate what else could be causing a problem like TB that some suspect to be the actual villain. Just because a particular virus is present doesn’t automatically mean it is the 100% cause of an illness.
These researchers are shooting in the dark making assumptions with little to no RELIABLE empirical evidence. This is done purposely to be able to scare the shit out of people by using techniques that can be bent to conform to a particular narrative.
When all the major governmental organizations are purposely calling everything even suspected of being Covid19 as Covid19, that dishonestly alone should make people realize this is a contrived situation. This becomes the equivalent of saying if you’ve ever eaten a French fry, you must be French.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/no_author/according-to-cdc-data-its-not-covid-19-coronavirus-that-is-causing-all-the-severe-lung-deaths/
I finally know someone who had it. My wife called a friend and asked what’s going on etc. Turns out her husband 64, had it. Confirmed by test. She, 63 got quite ill at the same time and was not tested. The medicos said it was pretty obvious she must have gotten it from him and didn’t need to be tested. They said it was really bad.
He works at an Alcoa aluminum factory and word is the plant is a hotspot with many cases. The meat packing plants in the area seem to be hotspots and are all shut down.
I suppose there will be meat supply issues in the near future. The talking heads today all seem to be seizing on the expected “SECOND WAVE.” Great.
This story about Gangelt Germany is three weeks old. Try to find any updates on the number of deaths that happened during the last three weeks. Bupkes. Mostly what you can find is the same three week old news stories. Even those stories didn’t tell the actual data about how many deaths there had been at that time. Reporters are so goddamned stupid and innumerate that all they do is take the study authors’ conclusions (“.0037”!) and run with them.
The general concept of these serological tests is solid (although the methodology of the Santa Clara one was horseshit): find out how many total infections there have really been – so that you have the accurate denominator to compute the infection fatality rate. Even if you have believable antibody test results (as in Chelsea, MA, NYC pregnant women, Amsterdam, couple towns in Lombardy), you ultimately need to wait until all cases are resolved (until people are finished dying) and then divide the deaths by the total number who had been infected AT THE TIME the dead had gotten infected. The lag can be as long as a month. That’s why the fatality rate from the Diamond Princess started off at <1.0% (initially 7 of 740 infected) but has doubled already – with 14 now dead and other cases still unresolved. Same thing with the Ruby Princess cruise ship where the deaths are now about 3% on the cases.
I don't have time yet to look further into this Gangelt data. I suspect that the .37% conclusion would be easily refutable, but when they only publish some author's conclusion and the none of the raw (and still changing) data is obscured, all you have is the headline. "It's the flu, bro."
For the interested, this guy
is one of those trying to figure out IFR from the antibody results. In one of his tweets, be brought up the issue that while there is a time lag until death, there is also a time lag until seroconversion. Are these both roughly the same two weeks? Still mulling that over.
So lemme get this straight. The data in this study is about three weeks old and irrelevant.. but Chris Martenson hyperbole is right on the mark cuz reasons!
Got it!
JFC – read for comprehension, Rob. It’s not irrelevant, it’s incomplete. How many people had died there by the end of March? We’re not told. More people have probably died in Gangelt over the last three weeks. That’s kind of how this thing works. Just like 7 people die on the Diamond Princess, but a month later another 7 had died. Martenson’s video on the ridiculousness of the Santa Clara study was quite in-depth, with details on the antibody tests – like where they came from (China by way of MN) and exposing some of the conflicts of interest in the reporting. The video is entitled “Don’t Believe the Hype” if you have a spare 40 minutes. If everyone wants to believe we’re two weeks away from 2019-like “normalcy” it’s no sweat off my balls.
I already watched that fucken video and it wasn’t very compelling to me. Martenson is shilling just like everyone else. If you want to swallow what he said whole then be my guest. And don’t think for a second that I think everything is going back to 2019-like “normalcy”… those days are gone just like my RRSP (401k)
You Sir are now engaging projection. I have never denied that this virus didn’t exist. Never!
I just want my life back. The current strategy of flattening the curve is just gonna drag out the length of lockdown. Do the fucken math smarty pants. This virus will only stop being a danger when 60 to 80 % of the herd are exposed to it. That will take years!
That sweat might okay on your ballz but it ain’t on mine. And in meantime if you or Chris Martenson or anyone else are scared, then stay the fuck home!
Plant a garden or something..
I’m not scared at all. I also have no problem with opening up the economy and letting us get to herd immunity faster, Sweden-style. I have a problem with superficial, fact-free reporting that says (Gomer Pyle voice) “.37% .37%!”
Great! We can both agree that .37% is bullshit!
The Stanford Santa Clara paper has been withdrawn.
I wonder when the Max Roser graph will be withdrawn…
He may be trying to become the Greta Van Susteren of COVID-19.
Riker’s Island.
That’s the ultimate control group and all it proves is that A) they tests are bogus, or B) the infection fatality rate is bogus.
And that’s a fact, Jack.
First case announced March 18th. Don’t know when it was detected. By the time this article was written (April 6) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/rikers-island-reports-its-first-covid-related-prisoner-death.html “almost 650” were diagnosed as infected and 5 had died. That’s already a .769% fatality rate without even waiting for more cases to resolve. I’m not sure, but I would think that the population there would skew at least somewhat younger than the general US population. Here’s the age distribution for the whole US prison population: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_age.jsp
On the other hand, I assume there are a lot more men in Rikers than women, and men are killed by COVID at a higher rate. I’m not sure which infection fatality rate you’re seeing that’s bogus. Fauci initially said ~ 1%. That still seems on track to me and Rikers would seem to corroborate it once all infections are resolved and it’s adjusted for gender (and, to a lesser degree, age).
So most of these people dying, and lying in hospital ICU units, are just faking it……..
I believe the serious issue with this is that it is an aggressive super spreader with an unusually rapid transmission. While it may not kill more than a typical flu, it does it in a very short period of time, overwhelming the system. It also appears that it infects and creates enormous numbers of active carriers who are largely unaware they have anything.
It has already killed more than twice the number of people who normally die from flu and pneumonia combined. Covid-19 is now the leading cause of death in the US.
citations please!
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/
Thanks it led me to this.. from mises.org
Which sent me to this.. from NYT
It should be noted that Sweden is dropping… of course Chris Martenson would dispute that with that graph from Mr Inclusive Max Roser.. but I digress..
And please do not cite Mike Adams and Natural News. He has clearly lost all touch with reality.
https://youtu.be/r0zsSxdC1IE
Proof please.
So the modus for COVID is to kill the weak and test the rest of us.
And all of it for own good.
Good Lord. Can we get the “GlobeBusters” to weigh in? Maybe that guy Bill Mitchell, too.
Whoever posts long videos like this, could you please provide a time stamp for when the relevant topic is being discussed? Icke blabs on and on about nothing important: like his anecdotal history of psychic prescience… which consumes the first hour and 15 minutes
Yeah sorry about that.. I was listening to it as well and after a while I had to turn it off because every answer was 5 minutes of bullshit for one nugget.
Yes … yes, you’re right.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Isn’t that pretty much how they all seem to operate??
The Who (not the band) has determined that the evil virus, came from animal to human contact, and was not created in a lab.
I saw this on TV, it must be true.
But it got me thinking: If this was not created in a lab, then China is still responsible for unleashing this virus, because it did not come from US bat soup, it came from Chinese bat soup.
The Chi-coms, who currently run concentration camps for some of their good folks, and who spy on all the rest, and who steal technology from everyone, and create poisonous “medicine” for export, yes, these bastards.
You all recall that drug recall issue with the heartburn drug Zantac and the generic, it was contaminated with MDNA. The chemical, known as NDMA, was formerly used in making rocket fuel.
That is all you need to know about these chi-coms.
We are going to war, this is all just preparing the country for what life will be like during the kinetic phase.
It does have that practice run or emergency drill feel to it.
1) Governments lie to us. We don’t know the truth.
2) Studies are flawed and/or are based on Government data. We don’t know the truth.
3) Statistics can be manipulated to “prove” anything. We don’t know the truth.
4) It is way too early to tell. We are still in an exponential curve of deaths. It looks like new cases have leveled off but that could just as easily be due to them not being able to or not wanting to ramp up testing or just plain lying to us again. We don’t know the truth.
5) It doesn’t matter how much you bloviate, we don’t know the truth.
Sooooo, would you say the Truth Does Not Exist?
Existentially the truth does exist. In a form that any human can find? The truth does not exist. I don’t have any objection to people discussing possibilities but anybody claiming they have the “truth” is full of shit.
Propaganda
Propaganda is information that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented. Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations, the media, and individuals can also produce propaganda.
what’ the doubling time of the deaths?
That will tell us when we can ALL expect to be dead.
None of this is new. It just confirms the data in the Italian studies.
I posted several weeks ago that the Italians found ~6 out of 7 with the virus either had no symptoms or thought it was a bad cold. Of all that catch the virus .4% will die. That is 4 of every 1000 that catch it.
Also from the Italian studies, of those that died they averaged 2.5 “other factors” such as obesity, high blood pressure, age, etc.
If I can figure this out, the government figured it out long ago and has used this Plandemic for other purposes.
The issue is not with the overall death rate. The issue is that it kills one group at a high rate. It just about does not kill those under 60. But it takes a big toll on those over 70.
We need to try to protect that group somehow. The price at the moment is quite high, but the community needs to band together and try to protect them.
Those that want can band together at home
You think elderly have the ability to do that without assistance? You are being an ass.
Who is being the ass here exactly? You are all about free markets and manufacturing being sent to China because workers in west cost too much. And yet when it comes to Grandma getting pushed off a cliff you pull Das Kapital and plucking heartstrings quote old Karl!
Why all of the sudden this rush to be a Socialist when it comes to those that just need a hand!
Without assistance? Exactly what are you on at? Seriously!
Quotes by Karl Marx
Who knew that you were a closet Socialist!
I’d be careful with that rope though!
Rob – you are still being an ass. If you read for comprehension, which at the moment you seem to be incapable of, you will note the term community. I did not say a fucking thing about welfare. Or redistribution. I said they cannot do it without assistance, and they cannot, as most are effectively penniless. They will need the community to help.
And your idea that “those that want can band together at home” is totally moronic. So, you think that 70 year olds, eighty year olds, ninety year olds can band together and all will be ok? They need assistance from the community. They need people to bring them food, shop for them, maybe help mow their lawns, tend their yards, etc. They also need the community to take reasonable steps to minimize the transmission rates – stop shaking hands for instance, keep social distancing as much as possible, etc. – all done voluntarily. Is that too much to ask to keep the elderly population as safe as practicable?
I said the community needs to band together.
You have entirely lost the fuck plot at the moment. What gives?
And here is an idea – blow me for the fucking Marx comment.
You are the one that needs to read for comprehension.. If you think for moment that I won’t lift a hand to help someone out you are dead fucken wrong.. I am right now doing my best to band together with folks here in my community. But banding costs money and that requires a job not campfires and kumbaya..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA
Its the community that matters comrade or don’t ya know….
Meanwhile the productive class have to just bear down and lend a hand
I just had the septic tank pumped the other day. It cost 260 bucks. Haven’t walked to mailbox for a couple of days but I am pretty confident that there are no letters addressed to me offering to pay. And yeah that is how it is supposed to be. In a free country I am supposed to pay for my own shit and if a fella has to suck on the pipe from the other end. It just sucks to be them..
Meanwhile the old folks are getting pension cheques on time and without delay. And the sudden concern for old people who made bad choices in this cold dark world. I don’t get it! Seriously did that calculus come to bear when making a staffing correction at workplaces you managed.
I doubt it!
Meanwhile at the other end if the proletariat fails what happens to them?
Are they gonna be made whole? Nope
Is the community gonna help them? Maybe
Are the rich going to hand over all their hard earned wealth? Fuck no!
And adding insult to injury the rich are getting bailed out! AGAIN!
And before you proceed to attempt a dogpile beware… I do not begrudge you your success. And yeah you should be able to keep as much of it as you want.
I just want the same rules to apply to me as well.
So far I am working. But that can change in an instant, as you probably know from running as business. If two weeks from now the owner stops making money, its out on the street, and then what?
And worst of all this shutdown has no end date. The controllers, comrade, are now talking about cancelling summer.
Exactly how will that help the commune is beyond my guess..
So you ask what gives? Well that’s easy! I’m pissed!
rins,
how often do you have to pump that tank?if more than 1x/year,get yourself an Electric semi trash pump & pump it yourself if there is a place you can pump it that kids won’t get on the ground where you pumped it 4 a few days–
I do it every six years.. for now I’ll pass on doing it myself. The tank holds a couple hundred gallons and I’d rather someone else deal with the shit as long as I can pay..
Rob – you have lost your fucking mind. Again I said nothing about money – I said to help the old folks. Bring them food, shop for them, help them isolate and keep going and stay safe, and do basic things that might minimize the virus spreading. Lots of those things are easy enough to do. The rest of the shit you are attributing to me is nonsense.
Spare me the pyscho babble Dr. Fill!
At what point exactly did you start thinking that I wasn’t doing all those fucken things. And you are one giant hypocrite. You regale us in your stories about the cold hard realities of the business world but when it comes to old people your socialists tendencies come shining thru..
Instead of Scotch you should switch to Champagne..
I told my neighbor that I’d buy food for her and her husband, Jews though they are. There’s a deal on ham at Aldi.
that’s the spirit iska–be sure to take beef to the catholic neighbors on friday also–tell them it’s fish tartare–
Be sure to take your own bag.
old fogeys who want to live forever are being asses 😉 the world is a finite place…
please… life has been so easy for so long… now there is a minor threat.
we filled up my 86 yo mom’s house w/ food & supplies ,call her multiple x daily & only occasionally visit–she is a very social person & it’s about to drive her crazy & i’m not so sure that it’s not negatively affecting her health–
my 88 yo father in law is in a nursing home in germany–physically he’s frail but still mostly mentally sound–a woman who was the daughter of a good friend of my inlaws & lived in their neighborhood visits him quite him often(pre corona) & takes care of his business–she is a nurse who specializes in catheters & goes around to nursing homes & homebound patients to insert & maintain their catheters–she has not been able to go see the fil since the corona lockdown began–
the fil has a roommate who is a mental case & also has a catheter –last week the nurse had to go to their nursing home 3x to put a new catheter in the roommate–he keeps cutting them-
nobody could figure out where he was getting things to cut with–turned out that he would ask fil & fil was loaning him his scissors–
why was he loaning him his scissors when he knew what roomie was going to do?
“…at least i get a visitor 4 a few minutes.”
Lock them up. Install a minefield around them, then build a huge bubble. There should be flamethrowers and towers too. five strands of concertina wire and a cordon of abatis to top it off.
Add some 3 phase and problem is solved…
Beer Me!
Also being an ass.
Who has beer!
It’s an absurd proposition to make healthy people refrain from living their lives because old and sick people may die.
Sometimes there are bad years for the flu season and some years there are hurricanes. Some great plan is in play and all of the tweaking and fiddling ever conceived of by the fevered imaginations of the fearful will not alter it. If there is some unspoken expectation that all men must submit to the whims of others no matter what they may be, I am unaware of it.
1) I did not say that. You are twisting my words and meaning.
2) I said we need to protect that group, and that it should be a community based movement.
Are you saying you feel no obligation to the elderly in your community? Seems so given your response to what I said.
Are you saying you feel no obligation to the elderly in your community? – LLPOH
That is the implication of the whole ‘that’s life’ attitude but his approach is the opposite. HF is a neighbor’s dream neighbor.
————-
I think my dog was a nihilist. When the small dog crossed over into the neighbor’s yard to socialize with the pit bull there, the golden retriever raised a ruckus such as he never had done in his life. When the intrepid little dog got run over ( I suspect my neighbor ran him over on purpose to pay us back for her own dog that had crossed into our yard and out into the street where it got run over.) the golden retriever didn’t show any concern at all, shit happens.
They hate old people, those useless old people need to die to make Rins and Hardscrabble Farmer complete. Fuck old people, let us have ten minutes of hate on old people, Rins and HSF are immortal and ageless. Boo old people, old people are a waste of space and should be trampled under foot so that young people like Rins and Hardscrabble can have fun and not be burdened with responsibility or compassion or kindness, such actions and emotions are a waste of energy and takes away from selfish self centeredness.
mygirl
That is barely a grade school debating technique and should be beneath you but if you insist…
MyGirl, sometimes you make so much sense and I learn so much from you and appreciate your comments. But then your womanly emotions take over your brain and you make no sense at all. Rins and HSF hate old people? really?
Do you not understand sarcasm? Do you not catch the drift of the conversation? Rins is pissed because Granny gets a pittance and he has to pay to get his septic pumped. Poor Rins, so sorry old people get SS. Like being old and feeble is just fucking great, right?
Oh man. Not to put words into RINs mouth, but he accepted his responsibility to take care of his septic. Question My Girl – why am I responsible for old folks that did not save for their golden years? WHY?
Why do you believe that old folks who are penurious didn’t save for their golden years? Think shit can’t happen? Perfect example is zero percent interest rates. We are going to confront some serious savings debacles in the not-to-distant future. With the stroke of a pen savings can be wiped out.
Remember this?
You’re not responsible.
I’d much rather see isolation of and assistance to elderly (particularly those in poor health) be entirely voluntary and charity based.
Any responsibility is to God. If you feel none, it’s no one’s place (least of all government’s) to obligate you.
I hope you dwell on what would make you say something so false with such conviction.
If you have any conscience at all you should feel ashamed for having written it.
I’m with you; but I and others shouted the same thing before the lockdowns began … when the idea/threat of total lockdown was being bandied about.
It’s obvious, logical, common sense; but what happenned?
There’s no place for reasonable actions or responses in all of this insanity.
There’s no place for reason in this whole damned (and I mean that literally) country.
Really? After all this time you’re going to try something like that on me?
You have some nerve or you’re socially retarded, no idea which.
My Aunt died two weeks ago tomorrow. She died alone because the State of NJ in its infinite wisdom decided to allow a sick woman to be isolated from her loved ones on her deathbed to keep her from getting a virus that might kill her. My family is broken-hearted, not only because they lost her, but because they know that they should have intervened but were too scared to do the right thing. They should have told the doctors and the hospital FUCK YOU and taken her home to die in the midst of her loved ones instead of having her slip away all alone just because some corrupt politician did what he was told by some nameless plutocrat who made the call somewhere further up the political food chain. You think any of those people give a damn about our family, our loss? We’re dirt people, just another statistic to help bolster their narrative. I told my cousin to keep a close eye on the death certificate because I wouldn’t put it past them to say it was covid-19.
Do you understand how profoundly stupid and evil such an act was? She might have pulled through but for having the hospital take her off a ventilator (which she needed) so that they could have one available if someone showed up at their hospital with the Wuhan flu. Then they shunted her over to an assisted care facility for her own “safety”, and all the while prohibited her children from being able to visit. So two weeks ago she told them to disconnect whatever she was hooked up to so she could just let go. She was collateral damage in a campaign of psychological warfare and you’re in on it.
And to top it off, only my cousin and his sister were allowed to be at her funeral to limit social spreading. All of her heartbroken grandchildren, the rest of a very large extended family, all of us prohibited by the state from mourning for her and celebrating her life that she gave, albeit unwittingly, for some bullshit State run power grab. No free will, no choices or risks allowed, no liberty and justice for all.
I know, it’s anecdotal, right? Just one person doesn’t qualify as a statistic.
So I am supposed to care about the lives of complete strangers who may or may not die from something that may or may not be what they say it is, but real people in my own life, well, fuck me I guess. They can die alone because muh noo rulz. Six foot spread, masks, and yes, the abortion mills and pot shops are still open.
You’ve been played and now you’re trying to shame me into sharing your delusional beliefs?
You are entitled to your opinion, stay in, go out, do whatever you want, but do not pull that we’re all in this together and you’re either with us or your against us bullshit on me, I’m immune to it. The mob mentality has been used on me in ways you can’t imagine, you even tried to ramp it up once yourself, but I don’t give a shit because a majority opinion isn’t what makes something true. You’re like those nurses doing booty dances on tik tok, a distraction from the obvious reality of what’s really going on. And it isn’t mitigating the spread of the flu to save the elderly. What you know about pathogens and how they affect life and play a part in keeping a balance wouldn’t fill a coloring book.
You worried about the old and sick dying? Plan on spending the rest of your life worried because that is a universal condition without end. Want other people to submit to the dictates of The State because they care about controlling the spread? You cannot possibly be that stupid, they’re the ones who spread it. Their policies of open borders, their billions upon billions squandered on organizations that couldn’t be bothered to have so much as a supply of masks on hand, their insistence on allowing labs to be built where mad scientists splice viruses together for what reason exactly? They made this happen or they allowed it to happen as an excuse to seize complete control and to crush their enemies before they even realized it was being done to them and you’re too blind to see it. So you turn on your friends and allies in order to fit in with the mob mentality.
So much for life and liberty.
I don’t get angry much, my life is too strac for emotions that deplete my energy, but for you to try and pull this, “do you feel you have no obligation to the elderly” line on someone like me? You have any idea how many elderly people I feed? How many elderly family members I have cared for until their passing in my own home?
Stay inside, wear a mask, hug a woobie and whimper in your sleep but save the faux liberal muh feelz rhetoric for someone with less spine and a lower IQ, I’m not your huckleberry.
what he said…
You twisted what Lloph said in order to further your personal agenda. Llpoh was asking for compassion and caring for old people while simultaneously allowing healthy people to go about their business. Why do you hate old people, what did old people ever do to you? Why do you think old people should die? Do you think you will avoid getting old?
Let nature happen, without fucking the entire world economy. How simple is that?
Let nature happen? Shit, why not just toss the old farts onto ice flows or leave them in the woods so bears and such can feast. Speed up that ‘natural’ process. Do you all not hear yourselves? How selfish can you get? I repeat, do you think you will never get old? Do you honestly believe you will be young and strong forever? Do you have parents? Grandparents? You want them dead because, well, shit, they’re old?
Again, why the fuck am I responsible for people that did not plan for their later years? WHY? WHY AM I RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM? Are you a socialist or a marxist? If not what the fuck?
You’re being an extremist. You don’t have a clue about what people did or didn’t do vis a vis retirement plans and that’s immaterial to the conversation. The caring for them part isn’t that you go out and feed and clothe them, rather, that you don’t endanger them through careless and unthinking behaviours. Please think about the context of our argument here. We are discussing opening up the economy/country and how to avoid infecting the most vulnerable while still having the openings. No one said you had to adopt an old person.
didn’t it get you excited to see that old bat go flying?
if we’d do that to everyone over 70 we could balance the budget,lower auto insurance rates,and end the lockdown now!
Gave you a stiffy didn’t it….
Yeah, clever how you had to post the same shit twice, like people are too stupid to get it the first time.
I couldn’t help myself, so I put the looooooong version in case you failed to see the sarcasm the first time.. the jury is still out on whether it worked..
Thank me anyways in advance if you can!
Annnnnnnnnnnnd you’re welcome!
Self quarantine for the old folks, let the rest of us live our fucking lives. No one hates old folks, but to save them and sacrifice three generations for those that are going to die soon is fucking insane. In doing that, EVERYONE suffers…. I am so fucking sick of the if we could only save one bullshit. People die. Happens every day.
Who says three generations are going to be sacrificed if you take care of old people? Hmmm? Llpoh was saying open the economy but take care of old people at the same time and somehow ol’ Rins and HSF twisted that into some bullshit about old folk gonna die anyway so why care about them?
You all should be ashamed of yourselves. No compassion or care for the weak or feeble or old. So very selfish.
Forced Government theft from the once productive is not the answer. It is not compassion. My family is not selfish or uncaring. We give much to our community, so don’t call me selfish as you have no idea what I give or sacrifice, or what rins or hsf does.. It is when government steals from me through taxes and hands it out willy nilly to potential voters that burns my ass. Even to illegals that should not be here that pisses me the fuck off.
Once again I am NOT talking about feeding and clothing and sheltering old people. Why you persist with that attitude escapes me. I am talking about behaviours and actions that can mitigate or spread disease in the context of how that affects the elderly.
BTW: I am utterly disgusted with the state of affairs and I completely get what and where you’re coming from with the sacks of shit that sit in office and pretend to be leaders. I wish to God there was something I could do to change things, I see what needs to be done, I see too much and I am frustrated beyond belief at how powerless I truly am.
Mygirl – that is exactly what I am saying. Thank you for what you have said. I am simply stunned at how my words, very precise in how they were put, have been twisted.
And I upvoted this.
Seems like two people getting so angry arguing one another that they can’t recognize that their on the same side.
I upvoted this.
You are the one twisting words mygirl..
One of the best bits of info is from the Ruby Princess debacle in Australia. Almost all of the passengers have been tested, with around 600 confirmed cases, the majority elderly. Of these 600 the last I heard was 21 had died. Now, this is not a huge sampling size, but it is significant for this reason:
The number of true infections is pretty accurately known. No guess work re how many unknown cases are floating around, as almost all passengers were tested.
So, based on that, the mortality rate, based on this sample size, in an elderly group, is between 3 and 4 percent.
That is not a low number, and in the US would extrapolate out to a million to a couple million elderly who would die from it if they all caught it. It is s significant killer of old folks.
This is a real, live Petrie dish sampling, not an extrapolated guessing game. 600 old folks got it, in a confined group where no or few unknown cases existed so as to blow out the numbers, and 21 died.
So a 3 to 4% death rate of the elderly is what this sample would suggest, in a first world treatment situation, and where the patients were heavily monitored.
cause we all know cruise ship passengers are just the peak of physical health and immune system strength… what with the endless booze, .e.t.c.
you also have to account for false positives/negatives. how many times were they tested?
I keep seeing that range in any numbers of dead to infected presented: 3-6 %. It also goes as high as 10%
It seems like the media has nothing new to say beyond what we knew from the situation in China back in January. They only keep presenting the same shit in different ways to make it look like they are working hard while spoon-feeding you the information all day everyday.
True, but you do have to expand the denominator to include the many who have been infected without being officially diagnosed and counted. The reputable, believable serological studies that have been done seem to keep showing the total universe of infected to be about 15 times the “official” number, but that will vary – mostly depending up how much testing is done (how accurate the official number is).
Then you have the issue of lag time. There’s a lag time from infection to death, but there’s also a lag time for seroconversion (having enough antibodies to show up on a test). I can’t find what the lag time is for seroconversion, but I would think that it would be shorter than the lag until death, on account of the antibodies presumably being how the infection is defeated. It keeps looking to me like 1%+ fatality rate – but even that varies by the average age of the population in question. That’s why I think Africa will end up with a lower fatality rate. Younger population.
What I’m dubious about is any assertion of widespread “prevalence” (of previously infected among the general population) that implies a fatality rate of only .1%. Even if every single person in New York City has been infected (highly unlikely), more than .1% of its 8.4 mil total population has already died of COVID.
Iska – and hence why the example of the Ruby Princess is a good indicator of the death rates of the elderly. 660 cases of infected, the entire boat tested and quarantined, and 21 dead. No guess work as to how many infected but not counted.
All were tested, all were counted, 660 infected, and 21 deaths. They represent a good and generally healthy sampling of elderly – well to do tend to be generally healthier than the poor.
So, based on that closed sample section, 3 to 4 per cent of the elderly would seem to be the mortality rate for that group based on the Ruby Princess.