Guest Post by Eric Peters
Would you wait 15 minutes to get a fast-food hamburger?
Electric cars will make you wait longer. This includes even those which are touted as being capable of receiving a “fast” charge in 15 minutes or so. Because you’ll have to wait for the car plugged-in ahead of you to “fast” charge.
This assumes you’re second in line. If you’re third . . .
Well, they’ll just install more places to plug in. It is not as easy as it sounds because of the problem in physics of two objects not being able to occupy the same space at the same time. To achieve the same capacity to charge as many electric cars as a gas station is capable of refueling in an hour, it would be necessary to at least quintuple the physical size of the charging station, to compensate for the quintupling of the time it takes to recharge each EV vs. the time it takes to refuel a non-electric car.
At a gas station, a car occupies its spot at the pump for about five minutes; thus, in 15 minutes it is possible for a single pump to refuel three cars. But if it takes 15 minutes to recharge a single EV, it would take two more places to plug in – and the space for those additional two cars – to equal the throughput capability of the gas station’s single pump.
Well, they’ll figure out a way to reduce recharging time such that it’s about the same as the time it takes to gas up a non-electric car. The problem there is that the faster you recharge a battery, the more you reduce its life – and increase the odds of a fire.
There is a reason why you trickle charge batteries – if possible.
It is usually not a problem – with lawn mower batteries and such – because you have the time to wait. But it’s a problem with electric car batteries, if you don’t like to wait. Unless you don’t mind risking a fire. Or reducing the useful life of the battery – which costs a great deal more to replace than a lawn mower battery.
These batteries – EV batteries – are also enormous, mainly because people expect an EV to duplicate (at least) the performance capabilities of a non-electric car. To do that requires about 1,000 pounds of batteries on average, which orders-of-magnitude increases the raw materials demand that goes into batteries, as well as the energy required to make the batteries, which are among the least renewable (in terms of what goes into making them) things on the market.
You have probably heard of “Peak Oil.” We have been hearing about it for the past 60 years. You probably have not heard about Peak Cobalt. Expect to hear about it – but probably not until after non-electric cars have been regulated off the market. The cost of electric cars is a function of the cost of cobalt – including the human cost of this unpleasant but necessary-to-EV-batteries substance.
There’s another problem, unique to things powered by electricity.
You cannot just pour it in, as you do with gasoline. Electricity doesn’t sit ready-to-go in storage tanks, underneath the pumps. It has to be transmitted as demanded – via cables from the generating source – and this requires cables of much greater capacity than your household extension cord.
This is why it is not possible to “fast” charge an EV at most private homes. You can reduce the waiting time from eight or more hours but not to 15 minutes. Not without upgrading your house to commercial-grade electric capacity.
And then there’s that increased risk of burning your house down.
Finally, a word about “fast” charging – which even where feasible is only partial charging. You cannot fully “refill” a battery “fastly” – as you can fully refuel a non-electric car’s tank, quickly.
Which means more frequent charging.
Which, in turn, compounds the throughput problem as well as the charge-capacity and fire-potential problems, all those electric cars recharging in a hurry, more frequently.
And losing their capacity to be recharged more quickly – the more often they are “fast” charged.
These are EV facts but most people aren’t aware of them for the same reason they’re unaware of the 99.8-plus percent chance you won’t die if you get the WuFlu, if you’re not very elderly and very sick already. It is also why most people have no idea that the big pharmaceutical companies who stand to reap billions in profits from mandated or coerced vaccinations are immune from being sued for any sicknesses caused by their vaccines.
The reason for this lack of awareness is the same.
You are being sold on something you probably wouldn’t buy, if you knew what you were buying. They want you to think you are buying something else. Something that makes sense. But if that were the case, why don’t they give you all the facts?
That they don’t ought to give you a moment’s pause.
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It was -2F this morning when I went out and started up the snowblower. It hadn’t been started in months. Started right up. There’s a vast infrastructure for gasoline. You can’t run snowplows, garbage trucks and everything like that off of electricity. Maybe in Sacramento but not in the half of the country that gets snow and ice. Hell, the battery in my phone drops from 70% to 0% in about a minute if it’s below 20 degrees.
Welcome to the fantasy of battery power and the new normal. Battery power is just another narrative for failure.
Just to change the subject a bit. Does anyone know what happened to all the people that were on epstein’s island? I have a feeling they all hung themselves but, it would be interesting to have some confirmation of this.
They are just paying a new blackmailer to keep the pictures private.
The yutz’s designing the future don’t even think about such things.
Why would they when they’ve got their private jets and such …
Guess the realization that batteries are really toxic and don’t exactly recycle well should get a mention too, right? I think steam engines are the wave of the future…..
EVs don’t do so well in the cold, to say the least. Apple TV+ has a show with Ewan McGregor called “Long Way Up” where Ewan and a buddy drive a couple of prototype electric Harleys from the southern tip of S. America to LA. What they discovered is that the electric Harley worked like shit in the cold weather. They had to bring the bikes into their hotel rooms to charge at night, because they wouldn’t charge outside in the cold. Their milage per charge was miserable in the cold weather, while it was very good near the equator.
So besides all the downsides that Eric talks about, how the hell is an EV going to work in places, like half the US and all of Canada, that have winter.
Work winter? Who does that. LOL.
I talked to the chevy volt owner here. He said its rated at 240 miles per charge but he gets 120 if he needs heat. He drives 35 miles each way to work. So its perfect for him. But he also owns a 4×4 duramax truck.
Another possibility is denial of entry or movement. No place to charge your rig means those are places you cannot go. Take down the grid and 90% are stranded right f’ing now.
And to heat the car in cold weather also sucks a lot of juice. That’s a freebee in an current vehicle.
They don’t want us to have cars electric or otherwise. First step is to make gasoline or diesel vehicles very scarce. Second step is to make EV’s such a hassle that we opt for mass transit. Then they have us where they want us.
Be interesting to see a couple of yards of cement delivered on a bus.
They want us to move into the urban centers to use mass transit.
When the size of the bill for all the support and architectural infrastructure is leaked it will come to a screaming halt…….the milleneals will not pay for it and neither will I……
It will of course be socialized and YOU will not have a choice. Same as always.
I had a teacher in high school that was just as dumb as Eric. He was making the case against FM radio in your car. His argument, if you went on trips you didn’t have the range you did with AM. He got bested instantly by a teenage girl. She said, I don’t go on trips that often but I drive around town every day, enjoy my music on FM. There’s a Tesla dealer up the street from my office. They unload a dozen trucks full of cars everyday. Remember, all those cars are pre-sold. I’m on the list to buy the truck when it comes out. No gas? Are you kidding me?
As far as batteries not being the future, think again. Look at small tools. We have nothing but electric anymore. Chainsaws, screw guns, all that stuff. Virtually no maintenance compared to little gasoline motors. And they are super cheap. You can buy almost any tool now made by DeWalt in electric, and I don’t know that we thrown one out yet. What Eric fails to realize is most people have Teslas have a charger in the garage. They just plug it in every night like you do your cell phone. Most days they don’t go 350 miles. Your wife doesn’t ever have to get out of the car at a gas station, which is something to think about these days. Most families have more than one car. So you don’t take the Tesla on road trip, you take the SUV. Hey Eric, how’s that portfolio of beans and bullets looking? If you had put a hundred grand into Tesla last summer, you would now have two million dollars. That’s a successful career in anything, but in 18 months. Not being able to process information quickly, or in Eric’s case, not at all, seldom leads to good outcomes.
So how much did you invest in Tesla? Did you walk the talk?
No. I never said I was any smarter than that same rock. Hindsight, right? I didn’t have a clue that it would do what it did. I thought you might make 50% or maybe double your money and then get back out. I can do that in my own business. Stock-picking isn’t what I do, that was just a great company getting kicked around for nothing. I think Cathie Wood is the only one who got it right.
It only appears to work now because there so few … electric chain saw … uh huh.
Electric chain saws are fabulous for smaller jobs around the yard and very powerful and lightweight. Of course that does you no good out in BFE and running a 1,000 foot cord is impractical and they get cut or tangled etc. You won’t do much more than a bit of trimming with a battery powered unit.
One major drawback is the lack of weight. The powerful motor and no weight makes it too easy to buck back and strike the operator. You have to be twice as cautious running an electric, but they do work well.
When I say electric, I’m talking about battery powered cordless stuff. They have gotten a lot stronger than you might realize. The lack of weight is a blessing. It’s not nearly as hard of a job. They don’t buck. I buy 10 packs of blades and the first time they seem dull we just swap them out. And we have that chainsaw armor now so it’s pretty safe. DeWalt 20 volt Max tools are amazing. I will never spend seven hundred dollars on another Stihl, when I can buy a DeWalt for 150 bucks.
I am talking about 4.5 HP electric motor powered stuff like the good old Remington chain saws you can get for way under $100 and cut down small trees etc. Sounds like you are talking about a reciprocating saw which probably would work very well on smaller branches etc.
There is no doubt these newer lithium rechargeable batteries are outstanding for hand tools. Beats the hell out of all the older stuff.
No it doesn’t sound like I’m talking about a fucking Sawzall. It’s a big world out here and it changes everyday. Battery powered chainsaws now take down big trees no problem. One after the other. The price of sharpening a chainsaw blade or replacing it has almost evened out. So they are disposable in my world. Saves us a ton of time and effort. In your defense, everyone I’ve told about this has been a doubter. Until I put the saw in their hand. Blows them away. Don’t fall into the same trap Eric does. Be willing to learn new things. This is a small saw, 12inch, and it’s a beast. They make them quite a bit larger and up to 60 or 80 volt. All the reviews I read, said buy the 20 volt, it’s plenty strong, and the light weight makes it easy to work for extended periods of time. You never run the battery out, you tire before that happens. https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-12-in-20V-MAX-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Brushless-Chainsaw-Tool-Only-DCCS620B/303654387?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D28I-G-D28I-28_32_PORTABLE-MULTI-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BASE_SHP&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D28I-G-D28I-28_32_PORTABLE-MULTI-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BASE_SHP-71700000041074954-58700004788398049-92700040946149326&gclid=Cj0KCQiAlZH_BRCgARIsAAZHSBmqnIxHNsnkbdnodzkZtX9WHw4DlAbot1FZAtc9zmdgQgHShXvjB5waAk0bEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
And for 20 more bucks I bought a 3 year REPLACEMENT warranty from Home Depot. Prob7lem with the saw? Bring it back to the Home Depot which is a quarter mile away and they will hand me a new one. Let me add, I can change the blade in a minute or two, and I can tighten the blade in 10 seconds. All without tools
yup! the tool manufactures are getting real close to the wall outlet voltage. The only thing cordless tools do for me is, I don’t have to string an extension cord sometimes.
From Stihl:
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$409.00
It still comes back to a sorely lacking infrastructure to support it all.
Still, that is an interesting little machine. I didn’t know Stihl made battery-powered saws. They make great tools.
OK, so I read some of the descriptions. The only one I saw that spoke about longevity said 90 cuts. A pickup full of firewood can be close to 200 pieces so about that many cuts to fill a truck. Also, I’m sure the “90 cuts” aren’t from 16″+ diameter oak trees with a less than perfectly sharp chain.
I’m not saying it is anything close to a replacement for a gas-powered with a 5 gallon can sitting nearby. Just saying that they are trying to signal all the virtue they possibly can. And something like this might be fine for the weekend warrior who uses a saw a few times a year. Much like an electric car might be fine for someone who only needs to run around town. Sadly the electric car is $40,000+ and the chainsaw is $400+, so once again the impracticality raises its head.
MrLiberty, one thing about the cordless saw is that it only takes 5 seconds to swap out the battery. There’s probably a dozen of them running around here, so there’s no issue. But they last a long time. We typically never run the batteries out. Your arms get tired. When you hold the thing in your hands the first time, you think this thing some plastic piece of shit. But it’s not. It’s a real well thought-out amazing tool. It’s very light, very easy to use, quiet, which is nice, and surprisingly powerful.
If I can jump in real quick ….
DON’T BUY RYOBI !!! (I think it’s a Jap company but manufactured in China).
Anyway, it seems that’s all Home Depot carries.
Bought a grass trimmer. The charging unit broke … in the second year.
Bought a hedge trimmer. Just completely stopped working … in the third year.
About 1/3 of the reviews on Amazon is one star. Pieces of shit, imho.
You are exactly right, Stucky. I bought a Ryobi pole pruner, and it didn’t even last a year. And we never used it much. Piece of shit for sure. I won’t buy another tool made by them. So far, the DeWalt stuff has been fantastic.
I have an EGo battery powered chain saw with 2 batteries. The thing works great. Granted, I have nothing to compare it to. I never owned a gas chain saw. But for what I use it for – cutting large tree branches and smaller trees around the property – works great. And, as a plus, VERY quiet! I hate listening to those little gas powered leaf blowers and chain saws.
And how much does the replacement DeWalt battery pack cost? What? They sell them in two-packs that cost as much as the tool? That doesn’t even address the amount of electrical energy used to recharge them over and over again. In most cases the gasoline engine driven tools are cheaper over time. I’ve had my chain saw for 25 years, and it’s very cheap to operate (I sharpen the chain and maintain the engine myself).
How about battery powered backup generators? How well do you think that’ll work out?
It is a joke what the batteries cost. Here’s the workaround. We buy the tools when they go on sale with the battery and charger. They do it several times a year. So usually we get a battery or two and another charger and a soft case for less than the list price of the tool. And I know you’re trying to make a joke about a battery-powered backup generator. Do some research on Tesla powerwall. Amazing stuff
0-60mph in 2.9 seconds. 300 miles range but takes all night to charge.
Stupidly high sticker price. The Chinese and Russians produce the majority of rare earths and lanthanides the car needs.
I’ll buy a dozen. LOL
Meanwhile the independent HVAC guy who didn’t get hired to do my house just purchased a $50k 2020 Chevy High Country pickup his wife needs a ladder to get in. He wasn’t in a hurry to do my estimate or get my business and now I know why.
Well you can always like, I don’t know, sleep while it’s charging. You know, like your cell phone
Now I know what’s wrong with liberal’s brains. It takes so long to recharge them.
Edward, I love your reply but, you left out a person must clear the dead short in the brain bucket first or you will run the chance of cross contamination.
Look at the milwaukee tool website they have industrial tools with a huge battery now. The future appears to be similar, use easily replaceable batteries swap them in 30 seconds, fully recharged at the battery station and fully reconditioned if need be. Same battery pack for trucks, cars, etc. Forklifts already do this for the last 20 year’s With deep cycle batteries. Then all we need is about three sets of batteries per car to keep exchanging them and have two extras plugged in and charging. Then watch the battery material issue come to the forefront pretty quickly.
Renewable power storage is another huge problem. Just one dayorth is 500 years of the Tesla battery fa tory current output. BUT all those batteries plugged in and charging could also be part of the grid…
Just make a pickup like a Prius. no charging, but you have a small pony motor and a larger battery. Easy to make all-wheel drive. My dad had three different Prius, he liked them all, they never broke and the small performance loss in winter wasn’t that bad. They were roomy and fast. Take a look at the Jeep and other models available with a small booster battery, these plugin’s and just add to the gas engine helping it.
I just don’t like the debt of owning a new vehicle. I’ve considered making my BB ford truck run on alcohol. I get the feeling that the future doesn’t involve going much of anywhere.
BB Ford Truck. I had to think about that. When were those made-1930 or so? Can’t be many of those around. Just be aware if you have a cork float, the alcohol will dissolve the shellac on the cork.
Just to the nearest “front” in the war.
I have a 2012 Prius Plug-in that now has about 89,000 miles on the clock. It will still go about 8.5 miles just on the EV. That about covers most consumer missions. Rest of the time a combo of the gas engine and EV from regeneration when you hit the brakes. All I’ve done is regular maintenance, nothing has broken. Oh, I did replace the 12V battery earlier this year. I bought it used on eBay at about 55k on the clock, and saved about 1/2 the sticker price. I put gas in about once a month, usually about 5 gallons. You truly cannot beat this car.
The Prius. A car for little people. At 6 ft 2in. I can’t get into any prius built. Fucking toyota.
There Eric goes again with those facts and shit. Doesn’t he know that facts no longer matter now that unicorns with magic wands are now sprinkling fairy dust all over the planet from Biden’s special bag of tricks….and all things will be wonderful from now on.
Doesn’t seem like Eric has ever driven an electric car.
I have a Tesla for 3 years now. It has its pros and cons. But the recharge time is a non issue. I charge the car at home 99% of the time.
The two biggest cons are price and range. I bought the Tesla for 60k in 2017 and it was 3 years old at the time. I just got my daughter a 2010 Honda Civic with 16k miles for 11k after taxes and fees. The average person isn’t going to be able to afford an electric car.
General, I’m not sure Eric has ever seen an electric car.
I love my rechargeable gear as much as the next person, but as I see it, anything powered by a battery, rechargeable or not is headed for the trash heap, usually within five to ten years of regular use. The only exception I can think of might be expensive watches. Electric cars may end up with longer life cycles. Time will tell.
Replacement batteries become hard to find, obsolete or too expensive. Batteries melt, leak, explode, corrode, or just plain fail to charge. All these devices have a little more electronics involved than wired electric tools, which is just another failure point. Manufactures know these are not going to be passed down through the generations, and they build accordingly. You can’t do much to improve or accurize these tools either. They are what they are. Some are not repairable. Some are.
Another thing that bugs me is how these things are beginning to talk with smart phones. Next thing you know my drill is going to talk to my refrigerator. Then they will both talk to google. I don’t want that. My hedge shears will accuse me of abuse and report me to the manufacturer. I don’t want my electric gun sights talking at all, ever. I just want them too work, which seems to be a tall order.
Aw hell. Use the right tool for the right job.
All the pissing and moaning about fossil fuel this, electric that, has no accommodation to overall impact on the macro scale of efficacy, efficiency, or sustainability.
Need gasoline or diesel (because mechanically it offers better sustained torque, range, and reliability than electric) ? What was wrong with this? There are ways other than digging big assed holes in the ground for oil.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Thermal_depolymerization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
Oh MY! Handles wet waste from all the farting cows, turkeys, and pigs PLUS can eliminate tires, paper, and plastic from landfills? Perish the thought!
Need electric/EV for short trips or tools for small work in a yard? Sure. Makes some sense, I won’t disagree at all.
But how about all that strip mining for lithium and cobalt we hear about. SUUUUUUURE…. That top loader is EV right? Hmm. No diesel here. No hauling away the spent ore into fills, or the power for processing that ore, right? =/ All 50 states have hydro plants for their electric power I’m sure. California and New York are fully energy independent right? /s
You wont have to wait for the car in front of you, because there isnt one.
Each place i have lived with free charging never has a car charging. Here there is one tesla and one one chevy volt. For ten free chargers that cost us taxpayers 1.1 million per year.