Guest Post by Jim Kunstler
This summer’s weather is perfect now in the Hudson Valley: warm, sunny days for primping the garden and cool nights that invite deep sleep. Zucchini and cukes are coming on, along with currants, gooseberries, blueberries. Unseen underground, the potatoes swell. The chickens range happily over their daily smorgasbord of bugs. At midnight, fireflies blink in the orchard. On the human side, though — commerce, culture, and politics — nothing works. At least not here in America. Sigh….
The solar electric I installed on the house nine years ago is down. It’s supposed to feed that monster called the grid. Since April, I noticed that the electric bill is creeping up way beyond the usual seventeen bucks that the electric company charges home solar producers for the privilege of feeding their system — which, let’s face it, has a downside for them because the intermittency of so-called alt-energy disorders their operations.
It’s counter-intuitive. Many people, I’m sure, assume that the more solar units feeding the grid, the better. Strangely, not so. Electric companies work much better when the production and flow of current is absolutely predictable and under their control — like, when they decide to fire up the natgas on generator number three or tune down the hydro turbines. It’s much harder to run the system with little dribs and drabs of electricity trickling in from hither and yon. But alt-energy is good PR for the government, so they do whatever they can to promote or even compel its use.
I got a whopping folio of tax breaks and subsidies from the state and federal government when I decided to put solar electric on my house in 2013, though it finally still cost a lot: $35-K. I had intimations of living through a chaotic period of history, and the decision was consistent with my general theory of history, which is that things happen because they seem like a good idea at the time. Getting a home solar electric rig seemed like a good idea.
So, last week, after considerable hassle with my solar company setting up an appointment for a techie to visit and evaluate the problem here, the guy came up (at $150-an-hour) and informed me that my charge controller was shot. The charge controller processes all those chaotic watts coming from the solar panels on the roof into an orderly parade of electrons. He also told me that my back-up batteries — for running critical loads like the well-pump during grid outages — were at the end of their design life. Subtext: you have to get new batteries.
There are four big ones in a cabinet under the blown charge controller and the inverter (for turning direct current into alternating current that is the standard for running things). The techie had some bad news, though. New building codes forbid his company from replacing the kind of batteries I have, which are standard “sealed cell” lead-acid batteries. Some bullshit about off-gassing flammable fumes. Now the government requires lithium batteries, which would cost me sixteen-thousand dollars ($16-K) more to replace than new lead-acid batteries.
Now, it’s theoretically possible for me to replace the less-expensive lead-acid batteries — they’re still manufactured and sold — but the catch is: I’m on my own getting them and installing them. I’m in the middle of that learning-curve right now. These particular batteries cost about $850-each for the four of them, plus a hefty charge for “drop-shipping” about three hundred pounds of lead and plastic. I will almost certainly go that way, though. A new charge controller will run about $2-K. All together, replacing these components represents a big chunk of change.
At the risk of sounding like some kind of pussy, I confess that this whole business of repairing my solar electric system has put me into a welter of anxiety and fury. I am trapped in the cage of sunk costs, a.k.a. the psychology of previous investment. Not only do I have $35-K (in higher-value 2013 dollars!) tied up in all this equipment — the solar panels themselves, the wall of electronic devices, the conduit, control panels, and digital read-outs — but now I have to dump thousands more into it after only nine years. It pisses me off because I should have known better. I walked with eyes wide shut into the pit of techno-narcissism.
The hyper-complexity of a home solar-electric system is extreme. There are hundreds of little integrated components that can blow, all of it adding up to a case of guaranteed fragility. There are no easy fixes or duct-tape work-arounds for any of it. I can’t make any replacement parts in my garage. They come from faraway factories via supply lines that get sketchier every day on trucks that don’t operate profitably at $6.50-a-gallon diesel fuel.
In a low-grade epiphany while going through this ordeal last week, I realized that back in 2013, instead of getting the solar electric system, I could have bought the Rolls Royce of home generators and buried a 500-gallon fuel tank outside the garage, and had a manual water pump piggy-backed onto the well, and maybe even purchased a fine, wood-fired cookstove — and had enough money left over for a two-week vacation in the South-of-France. Silly me.
Of course, these travails with my home solar electric system are a metaphor for the complexity and fragility that is, all of a sudden this year, causing the operations of Western Civ to fly to pieces. My investment in solar was as dumb as what the entire nation of Germany did in attempting to run itself on “green energy.” (Not to mention their more recent dumb-ass decision to forego imports of Russian natgas in order to please the geniuses at Tony Blinken’s State Department, the dumb bunnies.)
Of course, even when I get the solar electric back up-and-running again, something else is sure to go wrong. And in another ten years, the solar panels will be at least half-dead. So, if you’re reading this personal lamentation, consider bending toward simplicity. Wish I had.
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Stop being a pussy! You voted for Obama and learned, manned up and started walking down the right path. Keep on dude!
Do the same with solar.
LiFePo4 is cheaper than lead acid, about 25 year life, longer if you use them smarter.
https://diysolarforum.com/ is where I go but there are lots of places on YouBooB too.
$150 per hour, you still have democrat tendencies, too much money, common sense lacking.
Close off the purse and try to think like a thrifty old Yankee, you can do it.
We are pulling for you.
Excuse me, what?
Some kind (any kind) of lithium batteries are better and cheaper and have more longevity, i.e. cycles, than lead acid (a/k/a car batteries)??
You got to be fucking kidding me.
(And did you also put the 1000 gallon water tank into the calculation, you know the one to flood your battery room if one of the lithium cells shortens internally and catches fire?)
Water on a lithium battery fire, eh?
Knock yourself out.
What would you use? Halon?
Magnesium dust.
Gets it all over with MUCH faster.
5000 degrees.
ROFL!
Bright as hell too
Still waiting for a serious answer…
Meanwhile, Red should advise fire departments that they’re doing it wrong:
https://www.firerescue1.com/firefighter-training/articles/tesla-on-fire-how-to-extinguish-an-electric-car-fire-n8dDvmqLHqggmoXr/
Actually, masses of water on these types of metallic fires is not more hazardous. The mass of water is a heat sink which stifles the combustion by dropping all components below the combustion temperature. Done it and survived to tell the tale.
Now little streams of water from garden hoses or fire extinguishers will just annoy the metallic fire and cause it to explode. Left a hole in the parking lot asphalt teaching that lesson.
I think he means over the 25 year claimed lifespan, you would need to go through about 4 sets of lead batteries, so the LiFePO4 would be cheaper. Obviously it is a much steeper upfront cost. So steep that I can’t afford to do it any time soon.
“claimed”…
Mine are in a steel box, on metal feet. Have had no problems at all, but if I do, the steel box will contain things.
Anyway, static LiFePo are unlikely to burn up. They are not subjected to vibration or impact damage like EV batteries.
The lithium batteries used in a vehicle are not the same as those you would use in an off grid application. The vehicle batteries are a fire hazard, the house batteries are not.
Are they UL listed? Tell it to your insurance company.
better than lithium for a home solar setup (forget about grid-tied, thats way too much red tape, gotta go fully disconnected) , are nickel-iron batteries aka edison batteries.
I bought a house with solar panels. It doesn’t store electricity but it sends it back to the power company. The former owner couldn’t tell me how much this discounts the power bill, nor could a local solar panel company agent. That there are still people who think a modern society can be run on wind and solar is a manifestation of how screwed we are. Green New Deal, my ass. Same old raw deal.
There are lots of folks getting big bucks that are not worth spit. Biden, Fauci, Pelosi, Gates, Soros, to name a few.
Join a forum and get busy, there are lots of good people out there that like to help but remember on forums, the advise is often times worth what you pay for it.
The value is in what you learn.
The best way to get good advise is to be humble, have a sense of humor, pictures are really good and be thankful, even to the boobs.
Tell a good story, make up a good title, like “My Solar Array Power Goes to the Grid, Help!”
Solar and wind can and do work well for some people. The technology is being misappropriated. For industrial commercial use its a disaster only good for supplemental energy. The whole industry being regulated by government and the same ole oppressive powers of utility dependence. They TIE YOU DOWN TO THE GRID. A stand alone independent power system promotes liberty and independence -exactly what the oppressors don’t want. Solar and wind can work in a decentralized context. Its not perfect and you always want a back up which could be a a gas or propane generator. Its much more efficient for small homes and cabins and if you can install the systems yourself it would easily pay for itself 2-4 years of utility payments. The whole premise of promoting solar and wind to SAVE THE PLANET is the big lie and intended to collapse society not build it up.
The wife and I bought a house with solar hot water panels and an almost deal killing pool.
(My wife and I had young children, and we both knew people who had children who drown in them)
An amazing and VERY efficient way to have free heat. Both free hot water
and a heat exchanger run through my forced air system to augment the natural gas. I had 200 gallons
of near boiling hot water at my disposal every day. (CO has 300 days of sun every year)
It worked so well that when my pool heater failed, I bought for next to nothing 5
salvaged panels and ran my pool water up through them on my roof and had free 82 degree
pool water from May to September. It took me less than a day to install them myself.
Electrical panels are for fools. Hot water panels are for misers like me.
BTW, we also saved money on swim suits because all my boys refused to wear them
in the free hot water pool.
This is why it’s not working….
Bought a property with a waterfall and installed a hydro-electric setup that provides all the power I need. Use solar as a backup for major systems. Don’t feed the electric grid.
There’s nothing clean about green.
Why renewables can’t save the planet | Michael Shellenberger | TEDxDanubia
HA HA HA….
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) has warned power consumers in Texas to conserve energy on Monday afternoon and evening because there will not be enough wind power to operate the power grid reliably in peak demand.
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2022/07/11/texas-tells-consumers-to-conserve-electricity-as-wind-energy-falls-short/
Yeah, I’m bracing for impact this afternoon. Windfarms at 8% capacity. Thanks, Abbott (yep, he was involved in this crap).
ERCOT. How many millions, or billions, of dollars a year do Texas taxpayers spend in order to have someone say it’s going to be hot and there may be blackouts, so turn up your thermostat. Or it’s really cold, and you may have noticed your electricity is out. I know after the freeze they wanted a lot more money in order to keep telling us it’s too cold or too hot, but what are we paying this bureaucrats to tell us the obvious? I searched the website and there is nothing about their budget. Finally I sent an email to my Texas legislature rep asking for a reference. We’ll see.
Solar panels were a joke from the get go. Sorry you got snookered.
My suggestion is just to shit-can the whole thing. Stop worrying about sunk costs … that’s a fool’s game!
Replace everything with one or two windmills! This has worked for the Dutch …. who are cheap bastards … for hundreds of years. It only has one moving part, so virtually nothing can go wrong. You will recoup your investment in under a year. I’m serious.
As an added benefit, it will chop up a bunch of birds …. FREE MEAT!!
Wind is a dead end solution as well. You best give some serious thought to who is going to do the maintenance and other service on those wind turbines in the coming years. Even the low hanging ones, those at 125 feet or less, are a serious maintenance issue. But, if you must learn the hard way, take a shot at wind.
No shit, Sherlock.
Of mice and men, and God laughs.
The best solutions are sifted by the winds of change through the sands of time.
Nothing lasts forever; but some solutions work better, and longer, than others.
Hi Stuck,
Solar panels are a good option right now, because they are independent, basically zero maintenance power and basically subsidized by cheap materials ATM. They are not financially sensible (yet) if grid power is available, but they are priceless if the grid goes down.
I have tried wind. It works, but is a lot more hassle and more unreliable than solar, for me anyway.
Again, it is not the cheap option, but it is one of the best if the grid goes away.
BTW, Dutch windmills have several moving parts. Blade furling, vertical shaft, gear, lifter head, rotation plate…… they also require a lot of maintenance.
For point-of-use applications, solar works very well.
My deer feeder, my game camera, my gate opener, and the 12v marine battery that powers the pump on my fuel trailer are all powered by small panels less that are less than a square foot in area. But I don’t think is scales very well.
The point of being off the grid is to avoid entanglement with the authorities.
Selling excess power back to the electric company seems like a scam.
Texas of all places is really having a bad time in the last couple of years with their disastrous misunderstanding of wind power. First they froze during a cold snap because unlike us northerners they did not use a thinner oil in the turbines which would not turn to sludge locking them up in cold weather.
Today the reports are they are getting only 10% of the power they are capable of because there is so little wind at this time. The sun doesn’t always shine, the wind doesn’t always blow, but coal, natgas and horrors-nuclear, work almost all the time.
Windmills are a propaganda psyop that destroy natural beauty as an added bonus for the satanic people who mandated them.
They can be useful – great for supplemental power for solar systems. Vertical turbines are the way to go.
I was writing about like what they did to SW Oklahoma and other places for no good reason; of course there is a place for every power generating invention somewhere.
Instead of just killing birds that thing also food-processes them!
Verticals like that are much more bird friendly. The problem with giant wing/blade types is the bird is flying into empty space and the blade whacks them. Verticals like the one pictured always present a visual surface to be avoided, so the birds do.
We’ve replaced things that work, for things that sounded good (to paraphrase Sowell)…
Now comes hell to pay.
I think your first mistake was connecting to the grid instead of a stand alone system. Secondly hiring a company to install the system hog tied with regulations accounted for 50%-70% of your initial investment. I only have 700 watts of solar panels with 5 deep cycle (golf cart) batteries, a 2500 watt inverter and an 80 amp charge controller with additional 400 watt vertical wind turbine (Not that useful) It’s only used to supplement power at a minimal savings but in an emergency I love it. I can keep the fridge on, do a load of laundry, power my DSL internet cable for online access when my power goes out from storms 4 or 5 times a year. For smaller homes or cabins I think solar and wind are much more reliable and cost effective. I would suggest people interested in solar/wind to Install system yourself and maybe hire an electrician to install a separate breaker box. You need at least 1500-2000 watt wind turbine/s for an acceptable supplemental power input. Run power off the batteries and when they get low the grid can help re-charge batteries. The Lithium batteries do hold more charge but are much more dangerous. If they overheat due to charge controller Mal-function they will explode or catch on fire. 10-15 deep cycle batteries cost as low as $100 per. In an emergency grid down scenario you have power that can be rationed if necessary without the hassle of Electric company and government regulations.
By deep cycle do you mean things like trolling motor batteries? I wish I had a new battery like our old electric fork lift. I think they may have been 24 volt? Maybe we should look at old time steam turbines that could burn garbage or wood, coal, pretty much anything that burns.
Yes, I have 5 100amp 12 volt deep cycle batteries in parallel so they work as 1 500amp battery. A 24 volt system is better so you can run 240 hookups. ( I didn’t know that when I bought my stuff cause I was completely ignorant). They are 5 years old now and still hold a full charge. They will probably last another 5 years. The trick to longevity is never allow them to go below 25% charge and continual use. They wont last as long if they just sit there without cycling power in and out.
If they won’t take a charge it doesn’t mean they are toast either. It may be the plates are coated with lead oxide and won’t pass electricity thru them. Solution, bake’m with a higher voltage to cook off the oxide. Run the voltage for about an hour and repeat 4 – 5 times.
Theres a few vids on youtube, it does work but there are some batteries that won’t recover. imo, if its dead then it can’t hurt to try something weird.
I don’t know the name but my buddy has a ‘battery conditioner’ thing that has brought back to life several lead acids for me. It takes about two or three days to do its thing, but several very old, seemingly dead, batteries were recovered. The recovered one in my daily driver is at least 7 years old.
There is the arc welder trick too.
CORRECTION. Should say 220 outlet not 240
I knew what you meant. Funny story. Some hillbillys were going to open a diner (since everyone can run a restaurant) near an industrial area and somehow hooked the coffee brewer, which of course they were doing themselves to a 660 connection they must have tapped into not knowing what it was. It was turned on, turned red and melted through the counter in a blob. Surprised it didn’t ignite or worse. They were open about a week.
“220, 221, whatever it takes.”
Thanks! From what I have seen, the home made systems seem to cost pennies on the Dollar compared to the stuff all these salesmen are pushing. In Illinois they promise rebates and tax breaks etc. but only until the allotted funds run out. Companies spend millions advertising their systems and these rebates and you see there is only enough rebate or tax break money for a few hundred houses. One guy was telling us he had one plan where blah blah and the state has “ownership” of it with you. I think most of them send it all to the grid so there isn’t any real backup capability which is what most folks assume they will have.
Tires…..burn old tires! They burn hot and last a long time and can be stored forever!
makes big smoke… send signal to trannysolidier where to look…
Aaah, bait.
Oh you mean future Globalists Neckties???
I’m still waiting for my first circuit board failure on my woodstove.
Reaserch 5 kwh server rack batteries. LPF. About $ 1500. Watch will prouse videos.
Sweetie nixed solar. We’d already bought the 500 gal. underground LP tank back when they were affordable, plus a 24K generator. We’re remotely located on a Sea Island with recurrent 15-25 mph+ winds during storms (1″+/hr at times), so power goes kaput often. Twice in the last 5-6 weeks for 3 hrs or more. After a minute, hear that reassuring sound and POOF! power back on.
Agreed that it’s just not gonna work.
I know one thing. When the power goes out and you have these and the fuel to run them, you will have light and be warm.
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An Aladdin Lamp:
A Coal Stove:
Any questions?
Not to be too big of a smartass but have you read “World Made By Hand”? Or was your solar experience part of the inspiration for that Book..? Just funning with Ya, but I just couldn’t resist. I love your writings and appreciate what you do. We all make mistakes. So far I’ve survived all of mine. Once we all get back to 1850 there will be less of these mistakes to make.
I would just like to make different mistakes.
I’ve looked at solar repeatedly. The only thing that makes sense to me is solar hot water. It’s as low tech as it gets, been around in some for for centuries, and doesn’t rely on the grid to work. Heat and heating water are the two biggest energy consumers of household energy for most of the US, including Kunstler’s upstate retreat.
If I was tied to the grid, I wouldn’t go with a solar system. It is only for people who want to be independent of the grid, are willing to educate themselves about the systems, and don’t mind spending some extra money in exchange for electricity independence. Few people check all of those boxes.
Thorium salt nukes:
https://flibe-energy.com/
Thought crossed my mind…
Won’t be an issue for rural folks I’m betting, but for urbanites it might be a problem. Those solar panels might become a signal flare calling attention to your house if the grid goes down in a SHTF type of scenario. I’m thinking that thugs would more likely be inclined to look more closely at your place with panels all across the roof… obviously a ‘prepper’ and will have needed supplies… yes/no???
Maybe a genset would be a better option?? Most are pretty quiet these days and you’d be running it for a limited amount of time so it’d call little attention to yourself. Just a thought…
Off the grid is not feasible for where we are in a suburban neighborhood. Nonetheless, I’ve looked at solar four times in five years. Half of the proposals I got seemed designed to keep me from knowing what it was actually going to cost. The others were straightforward enough. The last was the most informative, explaining a couple of options that seem important–leaving them off saves money up front but could cost either reduced effectiveness or repair bills. No one could/would give me an estimate of the cost of removal and reinstall when I have to replace my roof.
As a CPA since 1973, I have a pretty good grasp of numbers, returns, and generally financial feasibility. After cutting through the hype, for me the best case was 10-13 years to break even. That did not take into account possible repairs or probable maintenance. The author of this article has massive repairs looming at 9 years, so there is a chance, that for me, it would never break even. I did not consider the sell-back excess electricity, as the only provider offering that had prices for electricity a good 3 cents per kwh higher than I pay now. And being in the Gulf south, there is fairly little I would have to sell back anyway.
Solar power, wind power, electric cars. Three technologies only suitable for die hard early adopters or people with government (aka taxpayer) subsidies. Interestingly, what all three have in common is massive cost time bombs just out of sight down the road.
I put together a very simple and inexpensive solar energy system just for battery charging. I have a whole-house generator for power outages, but I thought a low power system for recharging all my rechargeable batteries would be worth it to not run the generator so much.
I started with a very simple 35 watt solar panel that i simply propped up inside a window. The best inside-window panels use amorphous silicon chips. Most of the solar panels come with their own battery charge controllers, which you need.
Then I run that into a simple lead acid car battery. I use maintenance-free so I can use it indoors.
Then I hook on a small 300 watt Inverter to change from 12 V. DC to 120 V. AC.
I run this to a power strip and hook up my battery chargers. They draw very few watts. I have my chargers for my Landworks electric cart for hauling firewood, my snow blower for clearing snow off my stacks, batteries for my electrically heated gloves, and my phone. I have a number of other rechargers I could hook up as well.
For 3 or 4 hundred dollars, one could get set up for solar battery recharging, and get a start into learning about solar.