Stucky QOTD: Trump vs Jesus

This is an exceedingly long editorial from Sunday’s Washington comPost.  Of course,  you don’t need to read it to answer today’s two questions … everyone already has an opinion on that! But, at least scan it,  so you can better understand their hatred for you, and the arguments they will use to crucify you. If your blood doesn’t boil after reading the editorial, then congrats — you’re a bona fide Libfuk.

Q1:  Is Christianity Compatible With Trumpism?

Q2: Who would Jesus vote for?  Trump or Biden?

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Me?

Q1:  The author claims to be an evangelical Christian  (although his paternal grandfather was a Jew). He was daddy Bush’s speechwriter for 5 years.  I was tempted to write a very long rebuttal tearing apart this asshole’s interpretation of Scripture,  which is truly abysmal.  But, that would defeat my purpose of posing these questions, which is not to hear me bloviate, but to get YOUR take on things. Short answer; YES, they can be compatible.

More importantly, let me just give you My Big Takeaway.  Dementia Joe said in heinous and derogatory language that MAGA people are a direct threat to democracy.  This ass-clown author just drills down a bit more into a finer granularity —>  THE WRONG KIND OF CHRISTIAN IS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.  Big deal?  Yup, because what must society eventually do to the wrong kind of person, in this case, a wrong-thinking Christian? “Crucify them, crucify them, crucify them!!” That, there, is what you can look forward to.

Q2:  Neither.  Jesus was non-political. 

Go grab yourself a red-letter Bible (where Jesus’ words are in red). You can read everything Jesus ever said (that which was recorded) in just a couple hours!  While reading, keep a tally of everything that he said which was clearly political.  Your list,  depending on your interpretation, might have 10 checkmarks!  Yet, based on such paucity of data folks will go off “proving” any number of theories;  Jesus would be a Democrat, Republican, Socialist, Commie, Revolutionary, Pacifist, and on and on.  I’m not buying ANY of that.  Jesus didn’t give a damn about politics. 

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Trump should fill Christians with rage. How come he doesn’t?

SOURCE: Michael Gerson Washington comPost

In many American places on a pleasant Sunday afternoon it is possible, as I recently did, to have coffee in the city at a bohemian cafe draped with rainbow banners, then to drive 30 or 45 minutes into the country to find small towns where Confederate and Trump flags are flown. The United States sometimes feels like two nations, divided by adornments defiantly affirming their political and cultural affinities.

Much of cosmopolitan America holds to a progressive framework of bodily autonomy, boundless tolerance and group rights — a largely post-religious morality applied with near-religious intensity. But as a religious person (on my better days), what concerns me are the perverse and dangerous liberties many believers have taken with their own faith. Much of what considers itself Christian America has assumed the symbols and identity of white authoritarian populism — an alliance that is a serious, unfolding threat to liberal democracy.

From one perspective, the Christian embrace of populist politics is understandable. The disorienting flux of American ethical norms and the condescension of progressive elites have incited a defensive reaction among many conservative religious people — a belief that they are outsiders in their own land. They feel reviled for opposing gender ideology that seems to have arrived just yesterday, or for stating views on marriage that Barack Obama once held. They fear their values are under assault by an inexorable modernity, in the form of government, big business, media and academia.

Leaders in the Republican Party have fed, justified and exploited conservative Christians’ defensiveness in service to an aggressive, reactionary politics. This has included deadly mask and vaccine resistance, the discrediting of fair elections, baseless accusations of gay “grooming” in schools, the silencing of teaching about the United States’ history of racism, and (for some) a patently false belief that Godless conspiracies have taken hold of political institutions.

Some religious leaders have fueled the urgency of this agenda with apocalyptic rhetoric, in which the Christian church is under Neronian persecution by elites displaying Caligulan values. But the credibility of religious conservatives is undermined by the friends they have chosen to keep. Their political alignment with MAGA activists has given exposure and greater legitimacy to once-fringe ideas, including Confederate nostalgiawhite nationalismantisemitismreplacement theory and QAnon accusations of satanic child sacrifice by liberal politicians.

Surveying the transgressive malevolence of the radical right, one is forced to conclude: If this is not moral ruin, then there are no moral rules.

The division between progressive and reactionary America does not fall neatly along the urban-rural divide. There are conservative megachurches in liberal strongholds, and Democratic-leaning minority groups in parts of rural America. But the electoral facts reveal a cultural conflict worsened by geographic sorting.

For decades, population density has been increasingly associated with partisan identification — the more dense, the more Democratic; the less dense, the more Republican. America might be united by its highways, but it is politically split along its beltways. Islands of urban, liberal blue dot a vast sea of rural, conservative red. And because the mechanisms that produce U.S. senators and electoral college electors skew in favor of geography over population, rural and small-town America starts with a distinct political advantage — the ability to transform fewer votes into better outcomes.

All this leaves portions of the nation boiling with righteous resentment. Many progressives feel cheated by a political system rigged by the Founders against them. Many religious conservatives feel despised by the broader culture and in need of political protection. In the United States, grievance is structural and is becoming supreme.

Anxious evangelicals have taken to voting for right-wing authoritarians who promise to fight their fights — not only Donald Trump, but increasingly, his many imitators. It has been said that when you choose your community, you choose your character. Strangely, evangelicals have broadly chosen the company of Trump supporters who deny any role for character in politics and define any useful villainy as virtue. In the place of integrity, the Trump movement has elevated a warped kind of authenticity — the authenticity of unfiltered abuse, imperious ignorance, untamed egotism and reflexive bigotry.

This is inconsistent with Christianity by any orthodox measure. Yet the discontent, prejudices and delusions of religious conservatives helped swell the populist wave that lapped up on the steps of the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. During that assault, Christian banners mixed with the iconography of white supremacy, in a manner that should have choked Christian participants with rage. But it didn’t.

Conservative Christians’ beliefs on the nature of politics, and the content of their cultural nightmares, are directly relevant to the future of our whole society, for a simple reason: The destinies of rural and urban America are inextricably connected. It matters greatly if evangelicals in the wide, scarlet spaces are desensitized to extremism, diminished in decency and badly distorting the meaning of Christianity itself — as I believe many are.

To grasp how, and why, it’s important to begin at the beginning.

History can be a strange and foreign place to visit. But Palestine in the first century A.D., when Jesus gathered his movement, holds a mirror to our times: It was a period of social unrest in which relatively minor provocations could lead to mass protests and violence — and when Christianity (initially the Jesus movement within Judaism) was founded as a revolt against the elites.

The Holy Land was riven by a culture war. On one side were Greek cultural imperialism and Rome’s brutal occupation. On the other was a Jewish people committed to preserving its identity but divided between accommodation and violent resistance. Conflict often played out along an urban-rural divide. Cities were relatively cosmopolitan. The countryside was religiously conservative. And it was from the latter — the Galilean cultural backwater — that Jesus emerged.

Residents of Galilee, who spoke their native Aramaic with a distinct accent, were sometimes dismissed as hicks. More sophisticated Jews thought them ignorant of the Torah. But Galileans were highly religious and respectful of the temple cult in Jerusalem. Most were peasants who engaged in agriculture and fishing and lived in small villages. Jesus’ hometown, Nazareth, probably counted 400 residents. When the future disciple Bartholomew first heard about Jesus, his response was revealingly dismissive: “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?

The lower classes in Galilee, according to recent studies, were routinely exploited by the wealthy, creating an undercurrent of economic discontent. The people resented the tribute paid to Rome, the Jewish officials paid to collect it, and the whole idea of being dominated and defiled by a pagan power.

Roman officials, as elites are wont to do, fed these resentments by arrogantly, or stupidly, violating local and religious customs. Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect of Judea — whom we know from the criminal sentencing of Jesus — brought military standards decorated with images of the Roman emperor into Jerusalem in the dead of night, inciting a throng of offended Jewish protesters to bare their necks for execution rather than live to see such sacrilege. Pilate also stole money from the treasury of the Jerusalem Temple to build an aqueduct — and dispersed an angry, unarmed crowd with bloody blows.

Full-scale, armed rebellion by the Jewish people was still decades away. And during this period, the rule of Rome’s proxy in Galilee, Herod Antipas, was relatively benign. Yet before and after Jesus, a line of holy men and malcontents gathered supporters to challenge Roman control. They usually got quashed by marching legions. But most Jews lived in aching longing for Israel’s national restoration, brought about by a revolutionary leader or a messianic king.

 

Put another way: People were primed for a militant, populist uprising to take back the Holy Land for God. This was the milieu entered by Jesus, in about 28 A.D.

Jesus did not spend any time (according to the records we have) spreading his message in the Romanized cities. This might have reflected a desire to avoid immediate conflict with Roman authorities and their Jewish proxies — the kind of clash that cost Jesus’ prophetic predecessor John the Baptist his head. Yet Jesus also preached in the countryside because it was where He received his most enthusiastic reception. Rather than cultivating connections to the wealthy, He sought the company of people of low social status. And they appreciated it.

In the present day, the frightening fervor of our politics makes it resemble, and sometimes supplant, the role of religion. And a good portion of Americans have a fatal attraction to the oddest of political messiahs — one whose deception, brutality, lawlessness and bullying were rewarded with the presidency. But so it is, to some extent, with all political messiahs who make their gains by imposing losses on others and measure their influence in increments of domination.

Jesus consciously and constantly rejected this view of power. While accepting the title “Messiah,” He sought to transform its meaning. He gathered no army. He skillfully avoided a political confrontation with Rome. He said little about history’s inevitably decomposing dynasties. He declared instead a struggle of the human heart — and a populist uprising, not in the sense of modern politics, but against established religious authorities.

His rhetorical sparring partners were often the Pharisees, who sometimes don’t get a fair shake in the Gospels. They were part of a lay movement teaching that the piety and purity expected of priests should apply to the whole Jewish people. According to the Gospels, they occasionally invited Jesus to their homes for an evening of dinner and debate. One gets the impression that Jesus argued so adamantly with them because they had so many convictions in common: They shared beliefs in the importance of the Torah, in outreach to average people and in the eventual resurrection of the dead. But it was Jesus’ reinterpretation of these commitments that eventually (many years later) split Christianity from Judaism.

Jesus tested the boundaries of his faith. He intensified the moral demands of Jewish law by teaching that God expected the full transformation of inner motives. At the same time, He de-emphasized the ritual distinctives of the law, including Sabbath observance and dietary restrictions. “The Sabbath was made for man,” He said, “not man for the Sabbath.” And: “A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.”

 

Jesus was an observant Jew, but one who redirected the meaning of observance. Rather than emphasizing the elements of his faith that set God’s people apart from other nations, He focused on the elements of Judaism with universal application: to love God, to love one’s neighbor, to love enemies and strangers. These themes were previewed by Hebrew prophets such as Isaiah; Jesus pressed them further. This was not the abandonment of Israel’s God, but an unmediated, intimate way to understand and approach Him — one that circumvented the Temple and its burnt offerings.

This earned Jesus the enmity of the religious establishment and the Roman administration, both of which feared the social and political dislocation that often accompanies religious reform. It was enough to secure for Jesus a shameful execution in the company of thieves. But the inclusive faith He taught went on to resonate with people throughout the centuries and across the globe.

The ethos of the Jesus movement was anti-elitist. But it is the substance of its critique that mattered (and still matters) most:

  • Jesus preached against religious hypocrisy — the public display of piety that hides inner corruption and imposes a merciless virtue on others. The Pharisees, at one point, were subjected to seven “woes” by Jesus, in the spirit of this one: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness.” The idea was not only that religious figures should practice what they preach. It was that religious observance could divert them from God’s true priorities, convincing them they were righteous even when they missed the main points of their faith.
  • Jesus welcomed social outcasts whom polite society rejected — people with leprosy, prostitutes, the mentally disabled, tax collectors and those in the catch-all category of “sinners.” He elevated the status of women, who traveled with Him throughout Galilee. And He commended religious and ethnic outsiders — Romans, Samaritans, Canaanites — who displayed genuine faith. In one of his vivid parables, the town’s most “respectable” people are invited to a wedding feast. When they beg off en masse, the host fills the banquet hall with “the poor, the crippled, the lame and the blind” — a dramatic, even offensive, inversion of social status. The insiders were locked out. The outsiders joined the party. This was not only the announcement of a new age but of a new order, in which the last shall be first. And the reverse.
  • Most important, Jesus proclaimed the arrival of a kingdom — the Kingdom of God — demanding first loyalty in the lives of believers. The word “kingdom” led to immediate misunderstandings, even among Jesus’ closest followers, who expected a messianic kingdom that would liberate the Holy Land. The disciples even argued over who among them would be given greatest precedence in this earthly realm, provoking a firm rebuke from Jesus: “Whoever wishes to become great among you must be your servant.” Like other Jews, Jesus believed in a future age in which God’s sovereignty would be directly exercised on Earth. But He came to believe that his life and ministry had inaugurated this kingdom in an entirely novel way.

Jesus rejected the role of a political messiah. In the present age, He insisted, the Kingdom of God would not be the product of Jewish nationalism. It would not arrive through militancy and violence, tactics that would contribute only to a cycle of suffering. Instead, God’s kingdom would grow silently, soul by soul, “among you” and “within you,” across every barrier of nation or race — in acts of justice, peacemaking, love, inclusion, meekness, humility and gentleness.

When we act according to this counterintuitive conception of influence, a greater power achieves its aims through our seemingly aimless lives. But such a countercultural path, Jesus warned his followers, might lead to persecution or even death. And this was the path Jesus took as He walked, step by step, toward Jerusalem and the cross.

What brought me to consider these historical matters is a disturbing realization: In both public perception and evident reality, many White, conservative Christians find themselves on the wrong side of the most cutting indictments delivered by Jesus of Nazareth.

 

Christ’s revolt against the elites could hardly be more different from the one we see today. Conservative evangelicalism has, in many ways, become the kind of religious tradition against which followers of Jesus were initially called to rebel. And because of the pivotal role of conservative Christians in our politics, this irony is a matter of urgency.

Having known evangelicals who live lives of moral integrity and serve others across lines of race and class, I have no intention of pronouncing an indiscriminate indictment. But all conservative Christians must take seriously a sobering development in America’s common life. Many who identify with Jesus most loudly and publicly are doing the most to discredit his cause. The main danger to conservative churches does not come from bad laws — it comes from Christians who don’t understand the distinctives, the demands and the ultimate appeal of their own faith.

This development deserves some woes of its own:

  • Woe to evangelical hypocrisy. Given the evidence of sexual abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention, the corruption and sexual scandal at Liberty University, the sex scandal in the Hillsong ministry, the sexual exploitation revealed in Ravi Zacharias’s ministry, and the years of sexual predation at the (Christian) Kanakuk summer camps, Americans increasingly identify the word “evangelical” with pretense, scandal and duplicity. In the case of the SBC, victims (mostly women) were ignored, intimidated, dismissed and demeaned. Many of the most powerful Southern Baptist leaders betrayed the powerless, added cruelty on top of suffering and justified their coverup as essential to Christian evangelism. How can hearts ostensibly transformed by Christ be so impervious to mercy?
  • Woe to evangelical exclusion. In their overwhelming, uncritical support of Trump and other nationalist Republicans — leaders who could never win elections without evangelical votes — White religious conservatives have joined a political movement defined by an attitude of “us” vs. “them,” and dedicated to the rejection and humiliation of social outsiders and outcasts. From the start, the Trump-led GOP dehumanized migrants as diseased and violent. It attacked Muslims as suspect and dangerous. Even when evangelical Christians refuse to mouth the words of racism, they have allied themselves with the promoters of prejudice and white grievance. How can it be that believers called to radical inclusion are the most hostile to refugees of any group in the United States? How can anyone who serves God’s boundless kingdom of love and generosity ever rally to the political banner “America First”?
  • And woe, therefore, to Christian nationalism. Evangelicals broadly confuse the Kingdom of God with a Christian America, preserved by thuggish politicians who promise to prefer their version of Christian rights and enforce Christian values. The political calculation of conservative Christians is simple, and simply wrong.

Many perceive that their convictions and institutions are under assault by “woke” liberalism. Despite a judicial environment generally favorable to religious freedom, some view this tension as a death struggle for American identity. Their sources of information (such as conservative talk radio and Fox News) make money by inflating anecdotes into the appearance of systematic anti-religious oppression. And this led religious conservatives to seek and support a certain kind of leader. “I want the meanest, toughest SOB I can find to protect this nation,” Southern Baptist pastor Robert Jeffress explained in his 2016 defense of Trump.

This view of politics is closer to “Game of Thrones” than to the Beatitudes. Nowhere did Jesus demand political passivity from his followers. But his teachings are entirely inconsistent with an approach to public engagement that says: “This Christian country is mine. You are defiling it. And I will take it back by any means necessary.”

By assaulting democratic and religious pluralism, this agenda is at war with the constitutional order. By asserting self-interested rights, secured by lawless means, this approach has lost all resemblance to the teachings of Christ. A Christianity that does not humanize the life of this world is not Christianity.

The theological roots of this error run deep. Evangelicals often think that being a Christian means the individualistic acceptance of Jesus as their personal Savior. But this is quite different from following the example of Jesus we find in the Gospels. “He never asks for admirers, worshipers or adherents,” Soren Kierkegaard observed. “No, he calls disciples. It is not adherents of a teaching but followers of a life Christ is looking for.”

What might an outbreak of discipleship look like? It would not bring victory for one ideological side or to one policy agenda. Christ did not deliver a manifesto or provide a briefing book. He called human beings to live generously, honestly, kindly and faithfully. Following this way — which the Apostle Paul later called “the Way” — is not primarily a political choice, but it has unavoidable public consequences.

Imagine if today’s believers were to live out the full implications of their faith.

Instead of fighting for narrow advantage, they would express their love of neighbor by seeking the common good and rejecting a view of greatness that makes others small.

Instead of being entirely captive to their cultural background, they would have enough critical distance to sort the good from the bad, the gold from the sand. This might leave them uncomfortable within their own tribe or their own skin — but the moral landscape is often easier to see from the periphery.

Instead of being ruled by anger and fear, they would live lightly, free from grudges and ready to offer forgiveness — thus preserving the possibility of future reconciliation and concord.

Instead of turning to violence in word or deed, they would assert the power of unarmed truth. They would engage in argument without slander or threats — demonstrating not wokeness or weakness, but due regard for our shared dignity.

Instead of being arrogant and willful, they would approach hard issues with humility, recognizing that even the most compelling principles are applied by fallible men and women. They would know that people who esteem the same ideal can come to different policy conclusions — and be open to the possibility of changing their own mind.

Instead of ignoring the cries of the ill, poor and abused, they would honor the unerasable image of God we see in one another. Believers don’t accept a society divided by rank or dominated by the illusion of merit — they seek to subvert such stratification in constructive ways, to prioritize justice and common provision for people in need.

Instead of giving in to half-justified despair, they would assert that there is hope at the end of a twisting road. Even when their strength is drained by long struggle and the bitterness of incoming attacks, they would live confidently rather than desperately, with faith in God’s mercy and hope for a tearless morning.

Other noble religions and ethical systems come to similar conclusions. But for a Christian, one moment near the beginning of Jesus’ ministry draws the distinction between B.C. and A.D. Jesus stood up in a Nazareth synagogue and read from the scroll of the prophet Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

 

These are some of the most hopeful words in history. Jesus thought He could implant a new way of life on Earth. Defying most historical practice and precedent, He sought to reform human affairs in ways that privilege the poor, the prisoner, the blind, the oppressed. He wanted to put the joy, freedom and healing of outcasts at the center of a new era. At least trying to live under the inspiration of this good news lends purpose to our days and nobility to our failure.

This call is not merely political. Many are haunted by Jesus’ words, are drawn to emulate his person and find Him mysteriously present in their lives. Billions of human beings — Roman emperors and Celtic tribesmen, Byzantine artists and medieval peasants, Puritan settlers and enslaved Africans, Honduran farmers and Chinese house church leaders — have claimed to feel Christ’s comfort in their suffering, his guidance in their confusion, his company in their loneliness and his welcome at the hour of their death. If this is not the work of God, it is among the strangest developments in the human story.

But the soul’s trust is only the beginning of the heart’s quest: to value those whom Jesus valued, and to serve those whom Jesus served.

I know that people inspired by this vision have done great things in the past — building hospitals for the poor, improving the rights of women and children, militating against slavery, caring for the mentally disabled, working for a merciful welfare state, fighting prejudice, improving global health. But precisely because these things have happened, it is difficult for me to comprehend why so many American evangelicals have rejected the splendor and romance of their calling and settled for the cultural and political resentments of the hard right. It is difficult for me to understand why so many believers have turned down a wedding feast to graze in political dumpsters.

Are churches failing to teach an authentic Christian vision to Christian people? Have pastors domesticated the Christian message into something familiar, unchallenging and easily ignored? Do the dark pleasures of resentment and anger simply have a stronger emotional appeal than the virtues of compassion and self-sacrifice?

Or maybe it just feels impossible to judge your own upbringing and cultural background. It is hard to question the aggressive, predominant views of your community or congregation. It is far easier to seek belonging, even if it means accepting a lie or ignoring a wrong. Thus, moral courage is often a solitary stand.

What I am describing, however, is not a chain or a chore. When we are caked with the mud of political struggle, and tired of Pyrrhic victories that seed new hatreds, and frightened by our own capacity for contempt, the way of life set out by Jesus comes like a clear bell that rings above our strife. It defies cynicism, apathy, despair and all ideologies that dream of dominance. It promises that every day, if we choose, can be the first day of a new and noble manner of living. Its most difficult duties can feel much like purpose and joy. And even our halting, halfhearted attempts at faithfulness are counted by God as victories.

God’s call to us — while not simplifying our existence — does ennoble it. It is the invitation to a life marked by meaning. And even when, as mortality dictates, we walk the path we had feared to tread, it can be a pilgrimage, in which all is lost, and all is found.

Before such a consummation, Christians seeking social influence should do so not by joining interest groups that fight for their narrow rights — and certainly not those animated by hatred, fear, phobias, vengeance or violence. Rather, they should seek to be ambassadors of a kingdom of hope, mercy, justice and grace. This is a high calling — and a test that most of us (myself included) are always finding new ways to fail. But it is the revolutionary ideal set by Jesus of Nazareth, who still speaks across the sea of years.

 

THE END

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Author: Stucky

I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it.

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111 Comments
Anonymous
Anonymous
September 19, 2022 12:51 pm

Q2: Who would Jesus vote for? Trump or Biden?

Stupid Questions for stupid people.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Stucky
September 20, 2022 6:46 pm

Check out my last question to you Stucky – you hit the jackpot on the number of comments here. Does it mean the measure of your success is the courage of your risk to fail? Richard Bach had something to say about this:

Anonymous
Anonymous
September 19, 2022 1:07 pm

fuck thats a long article and i was getting pissed off halfway through the second paragraph already!
so..
Q1.. well ill have to answer with a question, what exactly is trumpism? trump himself? a best the wrong man for the job aside from being a mascot for the deplorables to start to find their voice.. and quite possibly even playing his part in the ruling class’s destruction of our civilization!

Q2.. jesus? vote for any of the faces of the evil empire? didnt jesus turn over the bankers’ tables in the temple? wasnt he executed for making things uncomfortable for the ruling class?

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 1:09 pm

Jesus wasn’t talking to you in the red letters. He communicates with you via Paul.

TX Patriot
TX Patriot
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 1:19 pm

Many thumbs up!!!!

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 1:51 pm

Sez you???

Paul did not write Mathew, Mark and John which have red letters.

Gracie claims Paul told him Christ is going to hoover all the Gracyites out of here in time to watch us unclean no-dots suffer from their box seats on the clouds.

comment image

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 2:30 pm

Sez the Bible. Even the red letters!

John 13:20 KJB… “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.”

To reject Paul is to reject Christ. Jesus sent Paul.

Acts 9:3-6 KJB… “And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.”

Paul wrote 13 separate epistles just for believers today. He had no exposure to Jesus during His earthly ministry to Israel.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 3:08 pm

Nobody is rejecting Paul. I’m rejecting anything you have to say about any scripture on the rare occasion you actually say something as opposed to throwing out a verse or two without comment.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 3:30 pm

What can I say? His words are better than mine. Reject them all you wish.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 3:44 pm

There you go again with the Alinksy stuff. I didn’t reject his words I rejected you.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 4:08 pm

For someone that rejects me you sure have a lot to say to me! You’re welcome to STFU anytime now asshole…

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 5:19 pm

Shut T _U?? OK Pastor as you call yourself.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Fleabaggs
September 20, 2022 7:40 am

Fleabag…

Sadly, it’s all too common to find people who think their pastors are supposed to be somehow morally superior to “us”…when “us” is actually just YOU.

So you go around pissing off the righteous to serve your REAL Master, satan.

You’re a fucking stumbling block to humanity, dude.

What does Jesus have to say about that, smart guy?

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  The Central Scrutinizer
September 20, 2022 8:37 am

And you are still an idiot who can’t follow the conversation. He’s not my pastor and they are indeed supposed to set a high bar with their behaviour and lifestyle. Paul even sets forth a standard for them.
I don’t go around dissing the righteous. The first think Gracie did upon his arrival here was cast RINS and Stucky into outer darkness.

Voltara
Voltara
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 6:06 pm

I’m rejecting Paul.

How dare you call yourself a pastor and claim that rejecting Paul is a rejection of Jesus! That is a shameful thing to say. Paul corrupted Jesus’ true teaching. He alienated the Gnostics and followers of Thomas. He was a political type and seeker of power. Because of him the true meaning of Jesus’ teaching was lost in the first century.

BTW…. great article, ol’ Stucky. Cheers

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Voltara
September 19, 2022 6:21 pm

“How dare you call yourself a pastor and claim that rejecting Paul is a rejection of Jesus!”

There ought to be a question mark at the end there…

I call myself a pastor and a teacher of Gods word as I am very likely the only Biblically honest one you’ve ever had contact with. The vast majority are either deceived or they are liars. Those who follow them clearly have not studied scripture themselves and are thus deceived along with them.

People reject and despise that which they don’t understand. There are very few here who understand the Bible rightly divided even though I’ve been using scripture to demonstrate it for quite some time. That’s why all the love comes my way so often.

Care to start learning?

What mystery?

Ken31`
Ken31`
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 11:29 pm

Aren’t you a dispensationalist?

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Ken31`
September 20, 2022 12:34 pm

A mid acts Pauline dispensationalist to be specific.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Stucky
September 20, 2022 9:46 am

So do I but he claims that’s why all the love comes his way so often. It makes me gag every time one of the TBP lost especially the girls call him pastor. J. Jones was also a pastor and you and I could send for an ordination by mail too. Father Frankie but you can just call me Dad. There ya go.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Fleabaggs
September 20, 2022 12:48 pm

“All the love…” are so dumb you can’t tell I’m poking fun at myself? When I post here I collect downvotes from all the “self righteous religious”! I see all the fallen people who hate Gods grace and it’s horrible. Y’all should start paying attention, time runs short.

Channeling Rod Serling…

Imagine if you will a time when men and women can simply believe a gospel message and be saved, forgiven of all their sins, declared righteous and sealed unto the day of redemption; and instead of accepting that for their standing before God, they prefer to claim all of Israel’s inheritance, promises, covenants, works and religious practices in order to try to justify themselves in their flesh.

You have entered the Religious Zone!

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Stucky
September 20, 2022 12:37 pm

Oh, you need Jesus alright. Ain’t no mistaking that.

1 Corinthians 4:12-13 KJB… “And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.”

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Voltara
September 19, 2022 11:26 pm

Paul did not corrupt Jesus’ teachings, but he was a man, not the Christ, which is why his works go on the left hand side of the alter, with the Gospels in the center and the Septuagint on the right.

They are still part of the inspired word of God. There is much to be learned from Paul, but he requires more humility to be heard that the Gospels which are the Word. At least that’s my understanding. The Bible takes a lifetime to really learn, and too many have taken shortcuts with the Cliff’s notes and that’s why everything has just gone to hell.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 11:21 pm

I sinned when I rejected Paul.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  grace country pastor
September 19, 2022 11:21 pm

Grace, I love you, but the epistles go on the left hand side of the alter.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Ken31`
September 20, 2022 12:55 pm

Thank you but there are no sacrificial alters today. Paul’s epistles are where our instructions from God are found.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  grace country pastor
September 21, 2022 4:51 pm

I am referring to the ceremonial alters used today to preach from, and it is Orthodox tradition going back to the foundation of the Church. One of the problems with Protestants is they rejected the Church traditions that are the roots of Christianity, though you could say the same of Catholics, esp. the modern variant, because they chose their spaghetti logic of hierarchy and modeling it after feudalism.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Ken31`
September 21, 2022 5:17 pm

May I ask, what/when was the foundation laid. I see one foundation in Christ and two foundational programs developing from Him; Israel’s foundation which Peter headed and the body of Christs foundation which Paul headed.

Both the earth and the heavenly places need redeeming back to God; thus the two-fold purpose of God, one spoken since the beginning, the other kept secret.

See Acts 3:19-21 and
Romans 16:25-27

Things that are different cannot be the same.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Stucky
September 19, 2022 11:36 pm

I was lead astray when I had Pastors in Missouri Synod that agreed with me when I questioned the legitimacy of Paul. He seemed so incongruent with the Gospels, but I was a stupid kid. I wasn’t getting a fraction out of the Gospels as what it speaks to me now.

As a middle aged man, I now understand how many children there are running around and how I was one of them for so long. I frequently meet ones older than me. I remember an infantry 1st Sergeant who said “The truth is we are in the infantry because we don’t want to grow up.”

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Stucky
September 20, 2022 12:57 pm

And you call me fubar’d when that come out of your mouth?

Dude, God is not mocked. You’re gonna pay a very stiff price for that if you don’t start studying as you are commanded.

Romans 1-8… again and again and again.

gadsden flag
gadsden flag
September 19, 2022 1:10 pm

Gerson is too intelligent for him to believe the tripe he has written. That said, he is one of Maurice Samuels’ “destroyers”.

Onward Christian Soldiers with love and a 45.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  gadsden flag
September 19, 2022 6:26 pm

“Onward Christian Soldiers with love and a 45″ – You brought this to my mind:

But hell, they asked Willie Sutton, why do you rob banks? Willie replied that this is where the money is. But why do you use a gun they enquired? Because said Willie: ” You can get further with a kind word and a 45, than you can with a kind word alone.”

It’s an urban legend, I understand, but nevertheless it’s true for me anyway.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Austrian Peter
September 19, 2022 10:57 pm

you know, love is fickle.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Anonymous
September 20, 2022 1:55 am
Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams
September 19, 2022 1:14 pm

Trump & Jesus. Should be a calm thread…let’s see.

Red River D
Red River D
  Abigail Adams
September 19, 2022 5:14 pm

Pretty tame so far.

Plenty of folks are fortifying their positions, and to be frank I kind of like what I see. There are more than a few legitimate thinkers on these boards, and the various views of Christ do seem to me to be trending in profitable directions.

Those of us who believe are well aware we’re about to be put to the test like never before.

Apart from when Christ walked in the land, there has never been a better time for believers to be alive in this world than right now.

Red River D
Red River D
  Red River D
September 19, 2022 11:32 pm

“…Pretty tame so far…”

I spoke too soon!!!

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams
  Red River D
September 19, 2022 11:38 pm

uh-huh. 😂

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Red River D
September 20, 2022 7:47 am

You didn’t allow sufficient time for the cork poppers to weigh in. Those time stamps can provide some real insight…if you bother to scrutinize them.

ICE-9
ICE-9
September 19, 2022 1:19 pm

I distinctly recall that Jesus beat the shit out of the money changers at the Temple. I like that Jesus. That is what they are really afraid of – Christians taking Jesus’ lead and dethroning the money changers.

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams
  ICE-9
September 19, 2022 1:26 pm

I like that Jesus too. There is a time for righteous anger. We’re not supposed to sit on our hands and accept injustice.

ICE-9
ICE-9
  ICE-9
September 19, 2022 3:21 pm

2:06 All foreign coins have to be exchanged for shekels…
Nothing has changed in 2000 years.

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams
  ICE-9
September 19, 2022 3:33 pm

There’s nothing new under the sun, as they say. Whether this, or when Prez Adams suppressed free speech…same story, different era.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  ICE-9
September 19, 2022 6:56 pm

Touché ICE:

ICE-9
ICE-9
  Austrian Peter
September 19, 2022 10:34 pm

But the 4th castle

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  ICE-9
September 20, 2022 1:59 am

🙂

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  ICE-9
September 19, 2022 6:38 pm

Copy that ICE 🙂

Ooze the other one
Ooze the other one
September 19, 2022 1:22 pm

The author of this “Bezos Post” editorial is akin to a painter who details his still-life portraits with a mile-wide paint brush. This Gerson creep makes his shallow opinions known through his sloppy and insulting word choices.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Ooze the other one
September 19, 2022 2:33 pm

Another lib who presents Jesus as – at most – a guru of self-improvement, a sayer of wise sayings. Probably a guy who did yoga and was a vegan (notwithstanding umpteen biblical verses to the contrary). Not a Jesus Who could be reconciled with John 8:58:

Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

Ooze the other one
Ooze the other one
  Iska Waran
September 19, 2022 3:21 pm

Please forgive my possible cheekiness in response to your spot-on reply above… you see, I haven’t had the chance to explain my screen name here on TBP, and now is as good a time as ever. Thank you for this opportunity, I. W.

The phrase “I AM.” can be heard in the opening sequence of “Monty Python and the Holy Grail.” I know some Christians take exception to some of Monty Python’s works. Fair enough. I tend to see value in humor as one of the great equalizers (that, and food!) The only reason I bring this topic up is to further clarify my screen name. As if anyone were that curious.

At the opening sequence of said movie, King Arthur and his trusty servant Patsy approach a castle, whereupon Arthur explains to the attending guard his title as king, how he has traveled the lengths of Mercia, blah, blah, blah, hoping to impress upon the castle guard that he (Arthur) is, indeed, the king of this land. [This is the famous “You’re using coconuts instead of horses” scene.]

The guard, unimpressed with King Arthur’s declaration, then asks, “Who’s the other one?” To which Arthur replies, “I AM. And this is my trusty servant, Patsy.”

I always found that particular exchange between King Arthur and the castle guard to be a weird one. It almost seems that Arthur is boasting “YAWEH… I AM.” I don’t draw any serious conclusions to this silly exchange, but, you can probably see now, I couldn’t let your quote from John 8:58 go without my comment.

My screen name is, to me, a simple reminder to be as humble as possible, like the trusty servant Patsy. I don’t always succeed. Probably has to do with being a human and all that.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Ooze the other one
September 19, 2022 7:15 pm

I have met you before OOZE and was equally impressed with your mental agility. We share a common interest – satire at its best: 🙂

Ooze the other one
Ooze the other one
  Austrian Peter
September 20, 2022 5:35 am

Cheery “Hi!” to you, Peter.

Next to my proper education in all things political and bureaucratic by way of the timeless BBC productions of “Yes, Minister” and the almost-as-humorous “Yes, Prime Minister,” I owe much of my appreciation for modern U.K politics and financial realities to your writings.

It might have been on Lew Rockwell’s site, or The Daily Paul, or even Zerohedge where we’ve interacted in the past. I’ve used this screen name on those forums. off and on, since 2006.

On a separate note: Peter, your explanation (elsewhere) of “Diest,” in the context of personal belief systems, has been very helpful for me in coming to terms with my own beliefs. Thank you for taking the time to better explain yours.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Ooze the other one
September 20, 2022 6:39 pm

Thank you for your kind words Ooze and I am uplifted to know that my scribbles have added to an understanding of our magnificent universe, a creation of a mind beyond my conception. It is a fascinating journey of discovery, this earth-walk of ours, and like you, I go back many decades when the first step of a limitless march began – perhaps even before I was born.

But that is another matter to examine in due time – I am closer to this event than most and I look forward with enthusiasm to passing the life/death barrier. From an early age I have always been intrigued to visualise life after death. My belief system enables me to find that deep inner peace and serenity amongst a confused and corrupted secular world – the gift of a reconciliation with my Maker and I am humbled by His grace.

We are all searching for that which I have found for myself but regrettably I cannot give to others that which is within me – I can only point the way and sometimes accompany a willing client to take the risk of walking with their God as they understand Him:
https://www.onlythebible.com/Poems/Footprints-in-the-Sand-Poem.html

Sam Fox
Sam Fox
  Ooze the other one
September 19, 2022 3:24 pm

Ooze, you could add “inaccurate” to the list.

If Jesus were here to vote for, there would be no vote. He alone would be in charge. For Him to be here to vote for or against would mean He has returned in His second coming. When that happens He will rule.

This guy is slick. Reminds me of when satan was tempting Jesus. What the devil DIDN’T say about the verses he used in trying to trick the Lord says a lot. Same with this guy as he trashes Trump in what I call a left handed manner. Innuendo, tacit statements, implicatin are used, but no evidence given.

SamFox

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
  Sam Fox
September 19, 2022 3:38 pm

1,000,000 ^
Best answer on this thread, Sam.

Upon his triumph, every knee will bow and every tongue will proclaim Him as Lord.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Sam Fox
September 19, 2022 7:16 pm

Beautifully explained Sam, thank you.

Red River D
Red River D
September 19, 2022 1:22 pm

“…Trump should fill Christians with rage…”

No he shouldn’t.

“…How come he doesn’t?…”

Replacing the word ‘rage’ for disdain or – to use a more biblically accurate term – abhorrence:

Question — Trump should fill Christians with disdain or abhorrence. How come he doesn’t?

Answer — because American Christians in particular do not distinguish between a culture war and a spiritual war. The Bible teaches at length about the second and then gives us the keys to implementing those lessons by instructing us to care little for the things of this world. The things of this world are meant to instruct the student of Scripture about the things of another world. So fighting the culture war, battling against the left, trying to right the ship of state, trying to save or salvage a dying civilization — all of these are lost causes and will SAP the combatant of his vital resources; resources which would better be put to use if we learned the lessons Christ came to teach.

Reformation of the nation is not the province of man.

Reformation of himself and his family is the province of, the duty of man.

Separate between the culture war and the spiritual war, or prepare to be laid waste in the coming great deception. A WORTHLESS SHEPARD is coming. Whether Christians rightly understand that to be Trump or they erroneously look for another, they should at least be on the lookout and searching for indications of a powerful deception. But of course, by and large, they’re not. They think they’ll know it when they see it. But they don’t. They’ve already seen it and failed to recognize it. Or worse…

…they will recognize it when the time comes, but will compromise anyway because the great deception promises to give them everything they want. And that’s what happens when we want the things Christ has warned us against wanting.

Hence the unmistakable warning: flee idols.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Red River D
September 20, 2022 7:51 am

I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it again. You got yer head screwed on straight.

Random63
Random63
  Red River D
September 27, 2022 9:54 am

Profound and well said Red River D. Saved that bit for my quotes file and will share. Gives me much to reevaluate and has lead to a change in perception. Spiritual war and cultural war are two distinct wars! I never separated it before, but doing so changes many things in my opinion. It is a good change in my view of reality.

Our primary concern should always be spiritual. Our time here is very short, but our time in the spiritual realm is for an eternity. We forget that so often because life here right now is so immediate and in our face. When it comes to earthly concerns, the old saying “This to shall pass” comes to mind. It’s only temporary. Spiritual and the consequences of our participation in that war are eternal.

For the “culture war,” most things I’m relearning lately leads back to home and local. All faith is home and local. All politics is local. All food and daily living needs should be local. Education should be at home and should be faith based. Hard to be deceived when always tending to your corner of the world instead of trying to save and fight the entire world.

Good essay Stucky. Enjoyed it and found it enlightening.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 2:34 pm

Bergoglio is not the pope.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Iska Waran
September 19, 2022 3:03 pm

Tell them not me. I’m not Roman Catholic.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 4:14 pm

I tell everybody, but nobody cares. I’ll keep pointing it out, though.

Sam Fox
Sam Fox
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 3:51 pm

Fleabags, how do you figure that? Name a POTUS who brought us BACK closer to freedom & liberty in the last 50-60 years? Trump is the only one. Reagan was a good 2nd

Having a free county via a Constitutional Republic is the OPPOSITE of chrislam. The Now The End Begins site teaches the pre-tribulation rapture. A fictional heresy designed IMO to trap Christians when $$ is digitized & a demand is made for all to have a mark so they can buy & sell. If Christians who have wrapped their faith in the PTR are still here when it happens, how will they react?
Will such a scenario be a large part of the great falling away in Thess.? I say get ready to face whatever comes.
Remember, Jesus said he that endures to the end will be saved. The PTR is not the end. His 2nd advent is. Then a new start…but until then He said WATCH!

SamFox

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Sam Fox
September 19, 2022 4:57 pm

Sam… First of all he did no such thing and neither did Reagan. You are the one who needs to explain that comment about him bringing us closer to freedom and liberty. What a whopper.
Trumps inclusiveness fits perfectly with ChrisLam.

As for the rest. Tell that to GCP not me. He is the one who preaches the ptb and the bigger heresy of dispensationalism. I was using Sarcasm. I have never been a ptr. I have said here often and have been booed for it often that we will be called up at the last trumpet if we are still alive.

Red River D
Red River D
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 11:36 pm

“…I have said here often and have been booed for it often that we will be called up at the last trumpet if we are still alive…”

That’s what the Book says, in black-and-white language.

And the last time that happened, EIGHT were saved.

This time, if we’re lucky it will be EIGHTY!!!

Though it could even be fewer than that. Could be more too. But I’ve never been one of the guys who expects to survive that far into this thing.

HIS will be done.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Red River D
September 20, 2022 9:52 am

Yes they will boo you here for implying they might suffer a little bit but it does indeed say the last Trumpet in black and white. Any still alive at the time will be marked so the plagues don’t harm them and we will be hated for that too.

ursel doran
ursel doran
September 19, 2022 1:54 pm

Kunstler’s article Posted above on the condition our condition is in with the MSM controlling its output, and Trump.

A Walk on the Wild Side

Ken31`
Ken31`
September 19, 2022 1:55 pm

Jesus was not a man, he was the Son of God from the beginning (at creation). That biblical understanding of the Trinity moots the question, I think. His concerns were entirely spiritual. Politics are fruits downstream of the spiritual.

I like Red’s comment above.

Sam Fox
Sam Fox
  Ken31`
September 19, 2022 4:13 pm

Ken, Jesus is a man, yet He is also divine. He was birthed by the Holy Spirit in a human virgin’s womb Thus He was born a Divine Man. His only physical connection to mankind was on His mother’s side, but it’s enough.

Paul refereed to Jesus as “…the Man Christ Jesus…” in Romans 5:15. Also, after the resurrection Jesus ate with the 11 disciples. Yet He could appear in their midst though the doors were shut. Amazing He is!

SamFox

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Sam Fox
September 19, 2022 6:20 pm

I think the Biblical interpretation of the Orthodox is correct, but to expand on it, he was obviously made flesh for a time and I am grateful for that sacrifice. He did call himself the Son of Man, because the Sons of God were biblically the angels and their like and he was made flesh. He knew the Word because he was the Word made flesh.

Genesis 1:3 As the Word of God, the Son made the light (Jn 1:1-3). With creative power and equality with the Father. He also co-created with the Father and the Spirit.
Genesis 1:26 – The pronouns “Us” and “Our” reveal a plurality of divine Persons. The Persons are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit operating in complete unity our of one divine Nature.

There is more in the Orthodox Study Bible. There may be disagreement, but it makes sense to me. I haven’t had to scratch my head over their explanations (so far) like I do Protestant and Catholic doctrines, though I attend Missionary Baptist (which I think just means independent).

I am learning at my own pace as I was commanded to learn, but I am slow. I am trying to keep the Sabbath to catch up, but I have more questions than answers. He revealed Himself to me, so I must follow.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Ken31`
September 19, 2022 7:20 pm

I consider myself an Ante-Nicene Christian but If I had to choose a religion it would be the Russian Orthodox.
You may find this 1 hour audio by Ted Broer interesting on who we are and who is behind the NWO controlling them. As always nobody has to agree with me.


Ken31`
Ken31`
  Fleabaggs
September 19, 2022 9:46 pm

Thanks, Fleabaggs. The old men I am working with always thank me for helping, but I am finding it hard to impress upon them how much I am learning from them and how thankful I am (and the old ladies for that matter). I wandered this world for too many years blind and ignorant, but if I never grew up, I was waiting for the right examples to follow, and through Christ and my neighbors I am figuring things out.

I don’t fear Hell and I don’t fear not getting into Heaven, at this point. I fear meeting the Lord and him saying “I do not know you”.

Maybe further down my studies I may get to that point that I can understand what you mean by Ante-Nicene, but right now I am scrambling to catch up. My heart knows a lot, but if it were that easy we wouldn’t have 10,000 heretical denominations and Peter would not have denied the Christ 3 times. I bet he was a cool dude, slicing that soldiers ear off was impressive. I think too many rely on belief and fail to understand faith. I don’t have to worry about belief, because it was revealed to me, so I get to concentrate on faith, which is a hard won blessing.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Stucky
September 19, 2022 11:57 pm

I memorized it in Catechism (LMS). It means something now.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Stucky
September 20, 2022 10:00 am

Ante means Pre Nicene council. Nothing more. Nothing less. And yes Catholic just means general or regular but I gave up constantly mansplainin(for Stephanie) I’m not roman catholic when I used to say I’m just a catholic christian. I am definitely not a cafeteria christian nor a churchianity cultist.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Fleabaggs
September 20, 2022 3:35 am

why remain in the cloud of even one level of translation away from the scripture with the russian church? those of us greeks who have remained through many centuries of erosion and assault from all around still keep the original texts. one of the biggest reasons that on the one hand the orthodox church didnt get into so many of the problems the catholic did, was that whereas in the west the latin scriptures (translation let us not forget) were mainly confied to a small lettered elite, in the greek world the scripture _was_ in the language of the people. and literacy all through from antiquity on remained higher in the greek world. the middle classes had direct access and did not need any class of specialists to play middleman.. Then add the political reality, that the roman state remained intact in the east and the church did not take on the aspects of an imperial
power itself, which further corrupted things in the west… and these (among others) were some of the biggest reasons for the inevitable backlash, the protestant reformation, which then went off in the opposite extreme. we never had a reformation because we didnt need one.
while the orthodox church was never against translating scriptures into local languages (quite the opposite kyril and methodios were sent first to moravia and then further into the slavic peoples specifically to teach in their own language, and they adapted an alphabet to the sounds of that language for them, even!) , still if one is approaching it from afar why not go to as close to the source material as possible. every layer of translation misses something.
It is true that it is a very difficult barrier to overcome, not only the language, but also the cultural divide. For better or for worse every human religion is bound up with the culture of the people who developed it. No single interpretation is going to be 100% accurate because we are humans and we make mistakes. However, even as we see some who come closer to the mark and some who fall wider of the mark, we develop all that inside the context of our own culture. This is not a bad thing. But it is every bit as much of a different way of thinking, as is a language, and requires a lot of mental shifting, especially, sad to say, for most in america who did not grow up multilingual from the beginning. It is harder to adapt that extra layer of abstracion/translation into every mental process, as an adult, than it is to grow up with it as a child, just as it’s harder to master a foriegn language as an adult. But not impossible! Just that really getting into the orthodox mindset will necessarily involve learning the greek language, which does include its modern degradations because thats alas what people speak today, as well as lreaning a lot of the traditional culture as well as the historical background for how that culture got that way and why. And for an outsider to come in and master those things, he must have a genuine love for them to go to the trouble – he will likely come out of that process knowing more about it than most of those who were born into it and just took it for granted all along!

and.. sad to say i have seen most of the greek orthodox churches in the US that i know of, show their true colors as cowardly and corrupt in the last couple of years when the masks fell from so many facades. . corrupted and compromised leadership has broken so much, even here in greece the same story. the patriarch in constantinople has apparently seen his path to worldly success, by cooperating with the globohomo empire. the metropolitan in athens who is nominally the head of the church within the borders of the greek state, is a totally controlled asset of the globohomo empire. His predecessor christodoulos was _not_, and he was taken off the stage by ‘cancer’ and its subsequent ‘treatments’ a few years back. He would have stood up to e.g. the church closings the past 2 years and said flat out NO. he would have stood up to the fags and trannies trying to get their hands on children, and said flat out NO. so they got rid of him.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
September 19, 2022 2:27 pm

Nitpicking…
“Jesus did not spend any time (according to the records we have) spreading his message in the Romanized cities.”

Really? Caesarea Philippi?

Sam Fox
Sam Fox
  Iska Waran
September 19, 2022 4:17 pm

Hmmmm. One would think that if Rome had conquered the WHOLE Nation, the whole place would be ‘Romanized”.

Uncola
Uncola
September 19, 2022 3:03 pm

Do you notice how the article applies Biblical standards only to “white Christian” America while failing to apply the same standard in judgement of the Political Left?

This is a common leftist tactic and the bias is made clear via subtle language and phrasing such as “inexorable modernity” (instead of “hedonistic decline”) and “cosmopolitan” to describe ancient and modern cities but the “countryside” as being “religiously conservative” like the hard-hearted and legalistic Pharisees.

Who would oppose those who love God and country (Christian Nationalists?) other than Luciferian globalists?

Is there anyone else?

In the meantime….

Q1 – in part, probably. A percentage. And theologians could debate over the exact percentage.

Q2 – He said His kingdom is not of this world.

Sam Fox
Sam Fox
  Uncola
September 19, 2022 4:22 pm

To leave out the exciting churches that our black brethren have is travesty. We have some marvelous, wonderful brothers & sisters up in their churches!

SamFox

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Sam Fox
September 19, 2022 6:06 pm

‘our black brethren’
hallejewya

Mary Christine
Mary Christine
  Uncola
September 19, 2022 4:42 pm

I noticed, Unc.

Trump is a distraction at best and a wolf in sheeps clothing at worst. That said the article is clearly one sided and I lost 10 minutes of my life reading it. I was going to scan it but you don’t get the full context by scanning.

That said, the media are really beating a horse about “Christian Nationalism” and the horse is starting to show signs of dying at this point. Never fear they will resurrect it and beat it some more. They need some boogie men to support their contention that people with conservative values are domestic terrorists. Do a search for Christian Nationalism. There is no shortage of articles, especially recent articles.

Here is a short relatively balanced explanation for the question “What is Christian Nationalism?” Does the scripture support it?

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-nationalism.html

Uncola
Uncola
  Mary Christine
September 19, 2022 5:59 pm

Just more Marxist dialectics to divide and conquer, indeed. And what makes the “Christian Nationalism” designation such a clever ruse is, exactly, because Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.

Furthermore, in some of the latest propaganda I’ve read, the “Christian Nationalist” label has been pinned onto both Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Putin.

Jesus versus Hitler and Putin. That is quite the virtue-signaling hat trick right there for those dreaming of a One World Order, free unicorns, and rainbows for all.

So don’t be surprised if that “dead horse” is ridden written right into the apocalypse.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Uncola
September 19, 2022 6:34 pm

Great comment as always, Mr. Uncola.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
September 19, 2022 3:41 pm

Gerson’s ancestors nailed Jesus to a tree, so that is how they felt about him.

rhs jr
rhs jr
September 19, 2022 4:52 pm

I have enough to do to care for myself and family in a Great Society that discriminates against White male Christians; Do Gooders like Stucky advocates are just marks to rip off , to the FSA. I do not throw my few hard earned pearls before the many liberal swine who only want to rob and kill me ; I offer my Christian ways and when they are hatefully rejected, especially morality and responsibility, I beat their sand from my shoes. They serve their Evil greedy lords, they plot and vote against me constantly; they arrogantly and unjustly control all the earthly levers of power under Reconstruction II, so let them reap their deserved fate; they make their bed and sleep among wolves; my warnings are turned against me as hate crimes and treason. I don’t voluntarily contribute to, support, or aide & abett this ZOG Society that FJB and Trump are both very much a part of. I think Jesus would not want to vote for either of them.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
September 19, 2022 5:04 pm

Yikes Stucky, that’s a whole lot of BS and I don’t have time to read it all. To state my case: I am now as certain as I ever have been, after 78 years of searching: I am a ‘Christian Deist’, neither a Monarchist, a Republican (although to do enjoy the company of ‘publicans’) – sorry old pun! :-). nor a Democrat, Tory, Labour, Marxist etc etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

I am true to the original basis of democracy in ancient Greece. In ancient Athenian democracy, sortition was the traditional and primary method for appointing political officials, and its use was regarded as a principal characteristic of democracy. Adapting this to our 21st century paradigm, it is best described as a localised economy with it’s political management based according to our 6 Demands at THA: http://harrogateagenda.org.uk/

My economic paradigm, post collapse, is based on UBUNTU: https://austrianpeter.substack.com/p/the-financial-jigsaw-part-2-localisation?s=w

With regard to Jesus; according to the Romans he was a revolutionary activist who promoted NVA – to clarify read: https://austrianpeter.substack.com/p/the-financial-jigsaw-part-2-special-36e?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email and you are correct IMHO that Jesus was non political unlike kinetic leaders like Castro and Che Guevara.

So – after all that nausea – I agree with you: JESUS WOULD NOT VOTE FOR ANY HUMAN ARSEHOLE

QED.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
September 19, 2022 5:58 pm

And… in the case of Trump – the question remains – is he a LARP? “It was suggested to me to look into Gematria regarding Trump and that would show me that he is a con, roughly. Gematria is about math and parts of the older Hebrew Bible. Elaborate patterns can be made with some of the text when the alphabet are converted into numbers, roughly. I don’t really get how it is used to suggest anything. It seems like other people compare phrases that add up to equal numbers, as if that means they are similarly connected somehow. That seems like too much coincidence is possible or I don’t get it.

I looked up “Trump is a LARP,” on a Gematria calculating site: https://www.gematrix.org/ . And the similar numbered phrases in some ways support the idea that he is a LARP, sure, but maybe suggesting more that he is fighting on the side of good, and Jesus-like, a favored son even or new Messiah. An oddly, that is how some fans meme about him. But there were also negative phrases, and a mafia boss name and the lists are endless, many random people entering their own phrases.

One of the matching phrases is “Queen Elizabeth dead” – E-984, S-164, double match (page 3), (the other number wa J-731). Other quicksand news, the Q crowd is claiming she has been dead for three years, executed for crimes against children, etc, and the real body would be substituted in the coffin for the double in case of DNA analysis.”

It’s wild out there in the MATRIX, Stucky, so if you have time, have a read of this weird stuff and tell me what you think? The one thing we do know, the PsyOps crew are very good at conning people and do set up massive false flag events to distract and scare the public. https://denutrients.substack.com/p/trump-is-a-larp-gematria-and-taiwan?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

So perhaps the Earth is flat after all? As regards to ‘coincidences’ or ‘correlation is not causation’ I have a short experiment to explain such phenomenon: When I was studying statistics at Bristol University in the 1960s the discussion hinged on Stonehenge (https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/blog/blog-posts/30-things-you-might-not-know-about-stonehenge/) and its astronomical alignments. Our professor suggested that humans are designed to recognise patterns in everything – it is a sort of protection to recognise danger. Our peripheral vision spots movement – which signals danger – if it doesn’t move it is unlikely to attack and eat you. If there is a slight movement then LOOK OUT!.

We were tasked to go out into the city and establish to position of as many Zebra Crossings as we could and collate the data. It would have been far easier with our 21st century GPS. Nevertheless, we got lots of data and together we drew compass alignments of all the combinations. Amazing – it was quite disturbing to see very clear astronomical alignments as if the whole random production of crossings motivated by traffic safety was being guided by an invisible hand! We moved on after that, but it has always remained a hidden question in the back of my mind.

Voltara
Voltara
September 19, 2022 6:12 pm

Jesus would vote libertarian

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Voltara
September 20, 2022 7:57 am

No He wouldn’t. He would rule the world with a rod of iron for 1000 years and then burn this rock to a cinder when He was done with it.

So is it written.

Anonymous
Anonymous
September 19, 2022 6:21 pm

“You can read everything Jesus ever said (that which was recorded) in just a couple hours!”
I can get out The Hobbit and highlight everything Bilbo says but that doesn’t mean it is all true.

If you don’t believe a jew like Gerson (and you shouldn’t) then there is no reason to believe a pack of jews writing about their ancestors, no reason to believe the jew saul, etc. -God doesn’t need jewish interpreters.

Q1: Yes. Clearly christians on both sides believe in trumpism.
Q2: Voting doesn’t matter.

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams
  Anonymous
September 19, 2022 6:54 pm

Interesting comment. Are you saying you know God, but not through the Bible? Am I understanding you right?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Abigail Adams
September 19, 2022 7:01 pm

I said God. Not YHWH or whatever.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Anonymous
September 20, 2022 12:08 am

Has He spoke to you?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Ken31`
September 20, 2022 12:27 am

I can’t adequately describe my religious experiences through imprecise words and I probably shouldn’t attempt it, but the short version is yes.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Anonymous
September 20, 2022 3:27 am

You are on my page – I follow your trend. Are we singing from the same hymn book with reference to my reply above about Deism?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Austrian Peter
September 20, 2022 1:00 pm

I’d have to say no, although there is some in common. Perhaps outside of its framework of the enlightenment and christianity I might agree with it, but it is hard to see it any other way.

I think all of this can be related in person in ways that are almost impossible to describe in text. Which is perhaps why so much devolves into nearly-talmudic wrangling when people base their beliefs and worldview first and foremost on text. Especially one in which Logos is declared God.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  Abigail Adams
September 20, 2022 3:22 am

I think he means that he knows ‘The Great Architect of the Universe.’ As a Christian Deist I believe in a Creator.

I am a seeker after the ‘Truth’ – much of which may be contained in the Great Book – but not exclusively so. I remain open-minded and in no way committed to any religion or belief system. I am agnostic to politics, science (or is that scientism?) but I do have a undying belief in a power greater than I which guides my very being, in short I am a ‘Deist’. I cannot, and will not, deny the magic and genius of the universe. A Deist believes in a Universal Creator based on reason rather than revelation or the teaching of any specific religion and is known as deism. The word originated in England in the early 17th century as a rejection of orthodox Christianity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Deism is the belief in the existence of a Creator – The Grand Architect of the Universe; solely based on rational thought without any reliance on revealed religions or religious authority. Deism emphasises the concept of natural theology – that is, a Creator’s existence is revealed through nature and the universe. Christian Deists do not worship Jesus as God. However, there are differing views concerning the exact nature of Jesus, as well as differing levels of hewing to traditional, orthodox deistic belief on this issue.

Some well-known Deists (or Suspected Deists) may be – Edward Herbert –– English Lord of Cherbury; Thomas Paine the English-born American philosopher who wrote “The Age of Reason,” “Common Sense,” and “Rights of Man.” and Thomas Jefferson the 2nd Vice President, and later, 3rd President of the United States. He was a Christian Deist.

Censors indicate that about 3.6% of Americans could be considered Deists, making them more common than Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, or Mormons. And that’s if you use a pretty narrow definition of Deism. Some powerful stuff is here. In general, Deism refers to what can be called ‘natural religion’, the acceptance of a certain body of religious knowledge that is inborn in every person or that can be acquired by the use of reason and the rejection of religious knowledge when it is acquired through either revelation or the teaching of any church. Some Christians might regard us as ‘heathens’ or ‘heretics’ risking a burning at the stake in years gone by. Here’s some helpful discourse:
https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/entertainment/tn-hbi-et-0604-god-squad-20150604-story.html#:~:text=A%3A%20Deism%20is%20a%20system,to%20us%20through%20sacred%20scriptures

But this is my own belief and I do not expect others to agree, however I will not impose my beliefs on to others. Acceptance of all alternatives is crucial for peaceful coexistence in an organised society. Much of history’s wars and conflicts are engendered by the need for the Powerful to impose their hegemonic concepts on to strangers. Politics. religions, social engineering etc all have their roots in this misconception. We are experiencing this in spades today with the WEF, politicians, leftist Liberals et al. Monty Python put it best:

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Anonymous
September 20, 2022 7:58 am

Enjoy Hell

STEPHEN RAMSAUR JR
STEPHEN RAMSAUR JR
September 19, 2022 6:27 pm

The loss of integrity seems, to me, leftist.

~L
~L
September 19, 2022 8:28 pm

I didn’t read one word of the WP piece, and these are the reasons why.
I don’t need someone else’s religious interpretations overlayed onto political positions.

IMO, each individual’s “faith walk” is a personal thing. Even if non-existent.
After all, our Creator’s greatest, and most misused gift was Free Will.

I’ll follow my own instincts, lessons learned, and studious reflections as I walk my own path. What works for me is not the best way for everyone. One size doesn’t fit all.

Getting everybody to conform is religion’s way of interpreting, adding to, and mandating repetitions so the church can be of one body, like minded in as much as possible.
Now pass the collection basket, and if you can’t / won’t commit, then grab a lower rung.

Regarding tithes and generosity toward those less fortunate, I’ve escaped the guilt laden suggestion to religiously stuff an envelope each Sunday. With a 10% skim going to the Vatican and that SJW that inhabits the throne and the white cape with sceptor? Uh, no.

Nay, I’ve found it much more gratifying to find people I deem worthy in day to day encounters, who I get inspired to help, in a variety of ways; least of which is money.
In the most repulsive ones might be Jesus in disguise. Or Mother Mary. God’s child, too.
After all, the red lettered text shows the way’s beginning as: OUR Father…

My un-Christian way of sharing communion is by sharing smiles, exchanging a good rapport with people who’d never expect it from me, offering support in the way of compliments and encouragement, sharing a laugh about something in common, and casually inquiring how someone is doing on a given day. Skimpy? I think not.

Knowing, through experience, that Pareto’s law is the norm, but sometimes I get a connection with up to 40-50% of the people I try to connect to, in some small way, instead of Pareto’s meager 20%.
If the Gospels are to be believed, Christ healed 10 lepers, and only 1 thanked Him. Pharisee.
Who am I to expect better results? Expecting gratitude dilutes the gesture. Conditional.
Better to express Gratitude more, and expect it less, in my experiences. Why?
Because it keeps the floodgates of good will toward men OPEN and flowing.

Large gifts of money can sometimes help, yet often create dependence, and foster a mentality of expectation and entitlement. Especially when such generosity ceases.
Money can obtain the things of life, but there are other gifts that money can’t buy, or that just a little bit of money is required to purchase, and then give to a worthy recipient.

But, enough.
Religious themed posts, like political posts will emit all manner of opinions.
Choose wisely , grasshoppers. Find your own path, then walk the walk.

If in doubt, go away by yourself to a quiet place. In the stillness, seek His advice, guidance, direction, and counsel. And stick with whatever method(s) work best, for YOU.
Use whatever resources are available, which will frequently lead you to more, ad infinitum.

Bon Voyage!

Q1. Some aspects of Trumpism are compatible with some Christian values & beliefs.
Q2. Neither.

The stone the builders rejected will be the cornerstone on which My Kingdom will rest.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  ~L
September 20, 2022 12:10 am

I think that is a legitimate point in the path. You speak some wisdome, -L.

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
  ~L
September 20, 2022 3:31 am

Bravo – well said, I am in your camp.

“If you see a man without a smile – give him one of yours”

Anonymous
Anonymous
September 20, 2022 12:18 am

would trump vote for Jesus?

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Anonymous
September 20, 2022 8:01 am

I don’t think he’d see that as being in his best interest.

Aardvark-Gnosis
Aardvark-Gnosis
September 20, 2022 9:24 am

Religion and the mind of the Gnostics:

Just say, incomprehensible allegory, defining myth as a reality is as old as any superstitions on the planet. The one-time intelligentsia of the Gnostics and their belief in the supernatural and the wisdom of heavenly bodies imagined as gods! Planets turned Into men of godly nature. The all-comprehensive ideology that somehow humans are symbolic of the so-called creators image??? The latter is purely self-reflective humanism, a desire of the ego of man to see himself as a god.
Well, I have the opinion contrary to such allegory which the mystics have created in men’s minds… He, man, has yet to evolve in the pretense of his madness for war… A mental disorderly obstruction of Mother Gia’s love for life… Men’s minds create the underdeveloped spiritual interactions with their physical surrounding and the need to feed off others as parasites, unwilling to foster their livelihoods of being creatures that breath in the breath of life and misunderstand their relationship with the cosmos… and the creation of all that seems alive in the heavens and here in this solar system of moving planets.
Historical and delusional perceptions fostered by the lazy priestly tactics of servitude to the masters of hypothetical spiritual allegory backed by nothing, but pure mental conjecture. The abyss from which came the archeological printings and writing… from whence came the history that is falsified through mind stuff, delusive beliefs, and the control of the tribal ancestry and the masses from modern technological invention… i.e., the printing press of lies that continue to distort our natural reality. Some have developed and fashioned the transitional fruition of trading on a level of winner take all! Greed is a retardation that compromises the natural order of our breathing lives here on earth. I. E., capitalisms monarchy of historys tribal rich families that control all we see and hear in the news of the day, the broadcasting and advertising of illusions that create slavey for every working man in the so-called modern world.
This is a religion like any other religion, created to distort our internal perceptions of human kindness tha endeavors to facilitate self-sacrifice by our own volition, and not a command of any governing entity! Taxation is the reservoir for the politically rich who are seers of the priests they command to deceive other humans. We know who the parasites are… yet, they have created strife and racial divisions within the human element of surviving here on planet Mother Gia Earth! To name them would bring down the guillotine of self-sacrifice that is conjured in the media owned by the very same who control it all!!!
Nuff said!

Austrian Peter
Austrian Peter
September 20, 2022 6:43 pm

That’s a lot of comments Stucky – how does this feel for you – success or failure?

Anonymous
Anonymous
September 20, 2022 10:12 pm

Leftists trying to subvert. Who cares, when the bell tolls I’ll be going to Valhalla, the only question is, how many of these shitbirds am I going to take with me. The day is coming.