Who were the early church fathers?

Submitted by Steve Quayle

I had a dialogue with Steve Quayle, who disagreed with my Four Horsemen interpretation of the world today. He described himself as a literalist and myself as an allegorist. He sent the article below as a supplement to our discussion.

The early church fathers fall into three basic categories: apostolic fathers, ante-Nicene church fathers, and post-Nicene church fathers. The apostolic church fathers were the ones like Clement of Rome who were contemporaries of the apostles and were probably taught by them, carrying on the tradition and teaching of the apostles themselves. Linus, mentioned in 2 Timothy 4:21, became the bishop of Rome, and Clement took over from Linus. Both Linus and Clement of Rome, therefore, are considered apostolic fathers. However, there appear to be no writings of Linus that have survived, while many of the writings of Clement of Rome survived. The apostolic fathers would have largely passed from the scene by the beginning of the second century, except for those few who might have been disciples of John, such as Polycarp. The tradition is that the apostle John died in Ephesus around A.D. 98.

The ante-Nicene fathers were those who came after the apostolic fathers and before the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325. Such individuals as Irenaeus, Ignatius, and Justin Martyr are ante-Nicene fathers.

The post-Nicene church fathers are those who came after the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325. These are such noted men as Augustine, bishop of Hippo, who is often called the father of the [Roman Catholic] Church because of his great work in Church doctrine; Chrysostom, called the “golden-mouthed” for his excellent oratorical skills; and Eusebius, who wrote a history of the church from the birth of Jesus to A.D. 324, one year before the Council of Nicea. He is included in the post-Nicene era since he did not write his history until after the Council of Nicea was held. Other post-Nicene fathers were Jerome, who translated the Greek New Testament into the Latin Vulgate, and Ambrose, who was largely responsible for Augustine’s conversion to Christianity.

So, what did the early church fathers believe? The apostolic fathers were very concerned about the proclamation of the gospel being just as the apostles themselves proclaimed it. They were not interested in formulating theological doctrine, for the gospel they had learned from the apostles was quite sufficient for them. The apostolic fathers were as zealous as the apostles themselves in rooting out and exposing any false doctrine that cropped up in the early church. The orthodoxy of the message was preserved by the apostolic fathers’ desire to stay true to the gospel taught to them by the apostles.

The ante-Nicene fathers also tried to stay true to the gospel, but they had an additional worry. Now there were several spurious writings claiming to have the same weight as the established writings of Paul, Peter, and Luke. The reason for these spurious documents was evident. If the body of Christ could be persuaded to receive a false document, then error would creep into the church. So the ante-Nicene fathers spent a lot of their time defending the Christian faith from false doctrine, and this led to the beginnings of the formation of accepted church doctrine.

The post-Nicene fathers carried out the mission of defending the gospel against all kinds of heresies, so more and more the post-Nicene fathers grew interested in methods of defending the gospel and less interested in transmitting the gospel in a true and pure form. Thus, they began to slowly fall away from the orthodoxy that was the hallmark of the apostolic fathers. This was the age of the theologian and endless discussions on secondary topics.

The early church fathers are an example to us of what it means to follow Christ and defend the truth. None of the early church fathers were perfect, just as none of us are perfect. Some of the early church fathers held beliefs that most Christians today consider to be incorrect. What eventually developed into Roman Catholic theology had its roots in the writings of the post-Nicene fathers. While we can gain knowledge and insight by studying the early church fathers, ultimately our faith must be in the Word of God, not in the writings of early Christian leaders. Only God’s Word is the infallible guide for faith and practice.

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67 Comments
Marky
Marky
September 29, 2022 1:07 pm

I don’t see how this response has any correlation to the 4 hosree article. Literalist allegoricalist? I find the Bible is full of literalism allegory figures of speech parables, it’s got all that. The challenge is to properly discern the scriptures by thorough study and most importantly this:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

DS
DS
  Marky
September 29, 2022 3:07 pm

I don’t see how this response has any correlation to the 4 hosree (sic) article.

I agree, and kept waiting for him to then say something along these lines: that a given group (or all 3) had a big problem with Revelation — not the least of which being the attribution to John (which John?) — with many claiming it to be a forgery/heresy and therefore not legitimate.

But no — the article just petered out, with no revelation/resoulution to the Revelation explanation/conflagration. (channeling my inner “i forget” here)

Jdog
Jdog
September 29, 2022 1:24 pm

They were the ones who engineered the biggest scam on earth….

DS
DS
  Jdog
September 29, 2022 2:51 pm

Which of the three groups?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Jdog
September 29, 2022 6:45 pm

The “scam” could not possibly have survived as it did without the power of God behind it.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Anonymous
September 29, 2022 10:57 pm

Just like all other scams?

Jdog
Jdog
  Anonymous
September 29, 2022 11:49 pm

What god? The sun god, or is it the son of god. The story of Jesus plagiarized from the story of Horus?
There is no doubt the worship of Isis influenced early Christianity through the concepts of the Dying and Reviving God who returns from the dead to bring life to the people, eternal life through dedication to that god, the image of the virgin mother and child, and even the red-hue and characteristics of the Christian devil.
Today many of the most powerful people in our government still participate in pagan Egyptian rituals ( skull and bones) and much of our symbolism is pagan such as obelisk’s and sphinx’s are on display in our nations Capitol, not to mention the pagan all seeing eye on our money. I suppose the fact that by your reasoning the fact that Egyptian pagan worship has lasted longer than Christianity is somehow proof of its legitimacy.
The truth is man has been domesticating his fellow man as long as he has been domesticating animals. The only difference is they use religion to domesticate their fellow humans.

flash
flash
  Jdog
September 30, 2022 6:24 am

Raptarding idiot…smh…

Jdog
Jdog
  flash
September 30, 2022 11:09 pm

Thats all you got, some you tube video. Sad, but then so is believing in a vengeful, jealous, god, who you believe throws his children into a burning torturous hell to burn forever if they will not worship him, because he loves them.. It is all bullshit. Pure bullshit.

John Carter
John Carter
  Jdog
September 29, 2022 10:11 pm

Actually, your mommy was, and the scam is you.

Jdog
Jdog
  John Carter
September 30, 2022 11:14 pm

Spoken like a true christian….you are all full of shit, and too fucking irresponsible to answer for your own lives and actions. You are as bad as fucking liberals. In fact you actually are liberals fucking up the conservative movement. The liberals believe in the god of government, and you believe in a magic man in the sky, you are both pathetic and weak.

Anonymous
Anonymous
September 29, 2022 1:26 pm

thanks for the article admin
we’ve got to be grateful how the Scriptures came together and how we’re to understand the Scriptures as the Word of God which are areas where we’re helped by the early church fathers

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  Anonymous
September 29, 2022 1:40 pm

Yes, I thank God for the Catholic Bishops who defined which books should be in the canon and which should not. If they had not declared which books are inspired and should be in the canon, we would not have the bible.

brian
brian
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 2:15 pm

Hows that missionary venture going for you….

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  brian
September 29, 2022 3:04 pm

great

Red River D
Red River D
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 3:11 pm

Oh. So you rake the muck to start a food fight!!!

I can respect that.

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  Red River D
September 29, 2022 4:38 pm

Yes and no. I state what I believe. However, sometimes with a bit of a pointed jab.

DS
DS
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 2:52 pm

Did you forget the sarc tag?

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  DS
September 29, 2022 3:04 pm

Nope – I knew that would get the protesters up in arms.

Red River D
Red River D
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 3:10 pm

“…If they had not declared which books are inspired and should be in the canon, we would not have the bible…”

I see. So the fact that 4/5ths of that work was already done by the the Jews, is moot? Also, the fact that believers are intended to be able to discern Spirit-inspired writing from spurious concoctions like the gnostic ‘gospels’, is moot?

God said He would protect His written word, and He has. No groups of men can take credit for that, nor should they.

In addition to which, the Catholic authorities were wrong about seven of the books they tried to include in the canon — hence, the apocryphal books.

We either know the voice of the Lord, or we do not. Individually.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Red River D
September 29, 2022 5:17 pm

Red they loves them some Yidds.

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  Red River D
September 29, 2022 6:48 pm

The Catholic Church did not add books to the canon. The Protestants took them out over 1100 years after the canon was established by the Bishops of The Catholic Church under the guidance and direction of The Holy Spirit. They are known as the Deuterocanonical books, meaning ‘lesser canon’. The original King James bible included them. It would seem that one of the reasons they were removed was to have less evidence of several Catholic doctrines such as praying for the dead. A somewhat derogatory term, ‘apocryphal ‘ was used for the same reason. Every Catholic doctrine can still be proven from any valid Protestant bible, but you miss quite a bit of incredible wisdom by ignoring the Deuterocononical books. The Book of Wisdom and the Book of Sirach, two of my favorites!
one resource – Where We Got the Bible… Our Debt to the Catholic Church
By Henry G. Graham

Red River D
Red River D
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 8:06 pm

“…The original King James bible included them…”

True, but the KJV sequestered the seven books between the two Testaments. I too am a student of church history.

And I’m not anti-CatholicS. But I am anti Roman Rite leadership since about the time of Vatican II.

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  Red River D
September 29, 2022 11:25 pm

I have many problems with Church leadership, but not about the doctrine that is taught – and I don’t mean off the cuff remarks by the Pope, but official teaching.
There is no-where else for me to go as I cannot receive the Jesus in the Eucharist elsewhere. Yes, I know there are a few others who still have valid Apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, but none are universal as is The latin rite Catholic Church. As an aside, I do not use ‘Roman’ Catholic since it was originally a smear… not sure how it became commonly used by my fellow Catholics. I prefer latin rite, probably just because I am cranky.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 3:18 pm

We would still have the Scriptures and lexicons and concordances although the last would be missing the dizzying number of bible interpretations. All of which have been corrupted simply by way of translating through several languages. The KJV and it’s many derivatives especially. For instance, the ages of the Patriarchs were deliberately altered ***by the Madoretictic texts*** to accommodate 400 years in captivity in Egypt. The Samaritan texts also agree with the Septuagint
Masoretic Text

Age When Son Was Born
Years Lived
Year of Birth ACA
Year of Death ACA
Adam 130 930 0 930
Seth 105 912 130 1042
Enos 90 905 235 1140
Cainan 70 910 325 1235
Mahalaleel 65 895 395 1290
Jared 162 962 460 1422
Enoch 65 365 622 987
Methuselah 187 969 687 1656
Lamech 182 777 874 1651
Noah 500 950 1056 2006
Shem 100 600 1556 2156
Arphaxad 35 438 1656 2094
Salah 30 433 1691 2124
Heber 34 464 1721 2185
Peleg 30 239 1755 1994
Reu 32 239 1785 2024
Serug 30 230 1817 2047
Nahor 29 148 1847 1995
Terah 130 205 1876 2081
Abraham 100 175 2006 2181

Septuagint

Age When Son Was Born
Years Lived
Year of Birth ACA
Year of Death ACA
Adam 230 930 0 930
Seth 205 912 230 1142
Enos 190 905 435 1340
Cainan 170 910 625 1535
Mahalaleel 165 895 795 1690
Jared 162 962 960 1922
Enoch 165 365 1122 1487
Methuselah 187 969 1287 2256
Lamech 188 753 1474 2227
Noah 500 950 1662 2612
Shem 100 600 2162 2762
Arphaxad 135 435 2262 2697
Kainan 130 460 2397 2857
Salah 130 460 2527 2987
Heber 134 404 2657 3061
Peleg 130 339 2791 3130
Reu 132 339 2921 3260
Serug 130 330 3053 3383
Nahor 179 304 3183 3487
Terah 130 205 3362 3567
Abraham 100 175 3492 3667

That was incomplete. I have to find the parts for the arrival in the promised land where the main errors were more appearrant.
Also from this list is some commentary by Clifton Emahiser
“NOTE ON PATRIARCHAL PERIODS. A careful examination of the most ancient manuscripts and versions of Genesis reveals the unreliability of the Massoretic system of chronology, in regard to the earliest times. Archaeological research has also proved that the Massoretic figures (as appearing in the A.V.) are completely untenable prior to the time of Abraham. In this Table, the chronology of the period from Adam to Abraham is based on the Septuagint system, which for the epoch subsequent to the Flood, is confirmed by the Samaritan Hebrew text and in agreement with archaeology.”

*** denote a correction to my reply at the beginning.

Llpoh
Llpoh
  Fleabaggs
September 29, 2022 4:22 pm

When Yo finds out Jews can live that long his head is going to explode.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Llpoh
September 29, 2022 4:48 pm

What did happen to lifespans?

Ken31`
Ken31`
  Fleabaggs
September 29, 2022 4:47 pm

I wish I knew what all of this is about. The essay is enough to get me interested, but it lacks any details to explain what it is talking about. If the blue text are supposed to be hyperlinks, they are broken.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Ken31`
September 29, 2022 5:04 pm

Hang on I’ll get you the full text.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Fleabaggs
September 29, 2022 5:16 pm

Ken here is enough to get started.
I don’t agree with him or the sites owner on the exclusivity of Adamites but on nearly all their other stuff.

https://emahiser.christogenea.org/watchman-s-teaching-letter-28-august-2000

https://emahiser.christogenea.org/about

Rise Up
Rise Up
September 29, 2022 1:40 pm

Read the Nag Hammadi library, especially the The Apocryphon of John. It will blow your mind.

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn.html

The excerpt below from another source talks about Jesus’ disciples in light of the Nag Hammadi texts.

https://yogainternational.com/article/view/gnostic-texts-reveal-jesus-in-a-new-light

“In December 1945 two brothers, digging at the base of a cliff near the town of Nag Hammadi in Egypt, made one of the most important archaeological discoveries of the 20th century. They found, hidden in a jar, a manuscript written in Coptic, the ancient language of Egypt. Painstaking analysis of this, and numerous papyrus rolls uncovered nearby, revealed that a spiritual library had been sealed away in the desert sometime around A.D. 350 by a community of early Christians. Fifty-two tractates, or treatises, were recovered, offering us a priceless glimpse into the beliefs of at least one group of Jesus’ followers. Some of the texts they preserved for future generations are probably about as old as sections of the New Testament itself, and describe events in Jesus’ life that overlap with the biblical version, but they also contain other information about Jesus that had been lost for 1,600 years.

The accounts of Jesus’ life preserved in this ancient library sent scholars reeling. For example, we all assume that Jesus’ closest students were his famous 12 male disciples, yet texts such as The Gospel of Mary, The Gospel of Philip, and The Gospel of Thomas from Nag Hammadi affirm that Jesus was actually closer to his women devotees. Today orthodox Christians pride themselves on having rejected the “primitive” belief in a universal Goddess, yet text after text reveals that at least some of the early Christians highly venerated the Goddess, and Jesus himself is quoted referring to her. For example, in The First Apocalypse of James, Jesus discusses the goddesses Sophia and Achamoth. Many other Nag Hammadi texts speak of the Goddess with reverence, including On the Origin of the World, The Hypostasis of the Archons, and The Thunder, Perfect Mind.”

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Rise Up
September 29, 2022 2:17 pm

Gnosticism = Antichrist

Rise Up
Rise Up
  Anonymous
September 29, 2022 2:25 pm

What? Where did you get that notion? Jesus was a gnostic. Do you even know what “gnostic” means? It means knowledge.

Red River D
Red River D
  Rise Up
September 29, 2022 3:12 pm

Wrong ‘Jesus’ fella.

Just as the Apostle Paul warned. BEFORE any gnostic ‘gospel’ was ever written.

NtroP
NtroP
September 29, 2022 2:04 pm

Very interesting. I have the utmost respect for both Admin and Steve Quayle, and view their respective websites as everyday must-reads.
Though Steve may have had some disagreement with the excellent Four Horsemen post, I have to believe these two Watchmen are on the same team.
Go Christians!!!

Red River D
Red River D
  NtroP
September 29, 2022 3:17 pm

The Book of Revelation can be understood both allegorically AND literally. As in fact, it should be understood both ways. It is allegorical in the sense that the very battle depicted throughout the Book is inherent and internal to every man who has ever lived. And it is literal in the sense that the Bible teaches us how to understand the timeline of the biblical narrative, on the historic world stage. Once understood, that timeline shows us where we are and it informs us of the events prophesied throughout the Testaments.

Anyone who understands the timeline and knows to take Scripture at its word, knows for a fact that the written Word of God is precisely what it claims itself to be.

I sometimes forget that there are men who do not understand this truth, which is a terrible shame and puts them at a grave disadvantage in this world.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Red River D
September 29, 2022 7:07 pm

Exactly why Dana AShley agrees with me that we are the allegorical Harlot of Babylon. I say agrees with me because I’ve been saying this to anyone who would listen to me(admittedly not many) for some 37 years now.
However I also don’t believe we are that far removed from the very end and It’s possible we are also the Biblical end times harlot for reasons based on corrupted Masoretic texts solely or mostly.

Red River D
Red River D
  Fleabaggs
September 29, 2022 8:11 pm

Flea — there can be no question about it, when we consider ALL of the descriptions throughout Scripture of this ‘mysterious’ entity. He describes the US literally to the letter.

BUT!!!

I’ve come to understand the importance of differentiating between the Whore and the Beast, and the US incorporates aspects of both. Until now, the Whore has been riding the Beast, but the Beast is fixing to turn and consume her with FIRE.

When Trump returns to power, in whatever form that takes, the Whore consuming will begin in earnest. And it will be a process, but the ultimate destruction of Madam Babylon will be swift and total.

I doubt I’m saying anything you don’t already know — and if you’re not onboard with the whole Trump = the Man of Sin thing yet…

…you will be soon!!!

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Red River D
September 29, 2022 9:52 pm

I was warning everyone here about Trump when he announced he was entering the Republican primaries.
“I said look at who his friends are and who his kids married into. NYC Banksters to the last.
A Leopard cannot change it’s spots”..

Those who say he can’t because he’s not a Yidd. Me and others here are on record that he is.
Whether he is or not for me is up in the air. Our lord has me occupied with revealing their true lineage back to Cain by way of the Kenites but he will reveal it if I live until Jan. 7. His return to the Darkhouse will certainly qualify as healing a mortal wound. It’s possible also he’s a Manchurian with a past we are unaware of unless you have something on that topic.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Fleabaggs
September 29, 2022 10:20 pm

As for us being the harlot?

I rest my case here.

Image

Red River D
Red River D
  Fleabaggs
September 29, 2022 10:26 pm

I don’t think he’s a Manchurian, and I think we’re all pretty well informed as to his past and upbringing.

Fella’s been in the spotlight since he was in his twenties.

And you’ve probably seen me challenge TBPers to point out even a single verse of prophecy about That Guy which doesn’t fit the fella like a custom made velvet glove.

He’s the guy. Exactly on schedule and precisely as foretold.

On a personal level, I have a confirming witness I’m hesitant to mention, because it makes me sound like your garden variety internet lunatic!!! Suffice it to say, when the word hit me with supernatural clarity, I knew it to a degree I’ve never experienced before. I was shown in a way which didn’t make any sense at all. Until it did.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Red River D
September 30, 2022 10:26 am

I have no Sacred Cows I won’t send to the butcher.

Abigail Adams
Abigail Adams
  Red River D
September 30, 2022 1:52 pm

Thanks, Red. You left me in total suspense.

Bullwinkle
Bullwinkle
September 29, 2022 2:10 pm

Scripture states to call no man “Father”.
We have Church “Fathers” and we have “Founding Fathers”.
There is a lot wrong here.

DS
DS
  Bullwinkle
September 29, 2022 2:53 pm

And that’s just for starters…

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  Bullwinkle
September 29, 2022 3:11 pm

What do you call your Mothers husband?

Red River D
Red River D
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 10:28 pm

POPS!!!

Richard Cranium
Richard Cranium
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 10:30 pm

Corn pop.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
September 29, 2022 2:22 pm

Read Acts 15 and Paul’s letter to the Galatians. There is a major transition happening here that very few seem to see.

In all these articles it’s always “the gospel”, “the gospel”… my question is always “which gospel”?

There is the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the uncircumcision you will find in Gal 2 for example. The gospel of Abraham in Gal 3…. There are ultra-critical differences between them. Differences that determine salvation or not.

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  grace country pastor
September 29, 2022 3:19 pm

Your question demonstrates why you need The Church which Christ founded and the Traditions handed down through the successors of the Apostles

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Anon y mous
September 29, 2022 3:36 pm

The catholic church is the very last thing I need. It works “lock step” with judaism to bring in the one world order with antichrist as its leader.

Peter was a Jew. He lived the life of a Jew. He recognized the Jewish Messiah. He died a Jew. He will be resurrected a Jew. He will sit on one of twelve Jewish thrones judging one of twelve Jewish tribes.

flash
flash
  grace country pastor
September 29, 2022 5:04 pm

The Catholic church is the reason you have the freedom to spew your heresy all over the internet…give thanks where it due, ingrate.

The Catholic Church, over a period of 1500 years built Christendom with wealth, blood and faith and in only 500 years Protestant heretics have managed to nearly destroy it all.

flash
flash
  flash
September 29, 2022 5:58 pm

There would be no debt slavery plague, if not for the heretics making it happen.

Philip II: (1527-1598)
William Thomas Walsh
“It did not occur to the kings that if the money-lenders ever got
power enough, if they ever got from under the public-spirited
repression of the Church, they would destroy their own masters.
Kings were not generally as far-sighted as money-changers, and
much less so than priests. This is not to deny that clerics sometimes
condoned usury and profited by it, or that some kings repressed it.
Human affairs are never so simple as that. But there was a line of
cleavage: the Church on one side hostile to usury, the kings
compelled to make use of it on the other.
As the moral influence of the Church was weakened in the
political and economic spheres, in consequence of a series of
calamities for which she was not to blame—the Black Death, the
papal exile at Avignon, the Great Schism, the return of paganism
with the Renaissance—usury began to accumulate wealth and to
organize its influence. With canny insight it threw its influence, by
and large, against the power of Church and State, supporting now
one, now the other, until, by a see-saw process, it succeeded in
weakening both.
It early identified itself with the forces of heresy in religion and
liberalism in politics, until Protestantism at last gave money-lending a
certificate of respectability, until a Lord Bacon could write a serious
defense of it, and Harrison (in Holinshed) must chronicle the
capitulation of the new Protestant England to “usury, a trade brought
in by the Jews, but now perfectly practised almost by every
Christian, and so commonly that he is accompted but for a fool that
doth lend his money for nothing.”5 ”
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=1889B28539B7506D637C3D5605BFD2A0

flash
flash
  grace country pastor
September 29, 2022 5:00 pm

The Church father would have cast our out as a heretic, if they didn’t stone you first.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  flash
September 29, 2022 7:53 pm

I now feel I should have made a qualifying remark that I do not hate Roman Catholics or Orthodox based on comments by gracie the pre-trib raptrurologist and other reading impaired commententers. If fact I pointed to the KJV and Masoretic texts written by the Kenite/Canaanit/Edomite imposters or name stealers of Khazaria later on after they corrupted Judah and robbed everything nailed down before throwing the others under the buss and leaving for more fruited plains as usual. Why fix the methods if they are still working as well as the originals.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  flash
September 30, 2022 1:38 pm

I have no doubt.

flash
flash
  grace country pastor
September 29, 2022 7:50 pm

You gotta’ take in whole book, bruh and not just cherry pick to suit your feelz
..

John 14:6

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Matthew 28:16–20

The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  flash
September 30, 2022 1:46 pm

I dare you to tell me you obey everything Jesus commanded.

flash
flash
  grace country pastor
September 29, 2022 8:00 pm

If your church is a 501 c3 corporation, your church is ran by fags…the State owns you..bet on it.

I could care less when Jesus returns.The only important thing is building on the faith and future for Christians, because the second coming of Christ could be another 2000 years off. Christian nationalism is a Christian duty.

Along those lines…good talk here.

TampaRed
TampaRed
  flash
September 30, 2022 1:02 pm

flash:”…if your church is run by fags ..”
methodist minister says abortion is ok–
most methodist churches also say gays are ok–

Methodist Pastor Attends Planned Parenthood Rally, Claims Christians Can Support Abortion

bigfoot
bigfoot
September 29, 2022 3:59 pm

Yeah, the Gospels have no credibility and it’s the Biblical scholars who continually argued for centuries over words and interpretations have cut and pasted to their satisfaction and we have God’s Word now in the Bible.

QUOTES FROM THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS

I stood in the midst of the world and revealed myself to them in the flesh. I have found them all intoxicated, not one of them was thirsty and my soul grieved for the children of humanity.

They said to him, “Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you.” He said to them, “You examine the face of heaven and earth, but you have not come to know the one who is in your presence, and you do not know how to examine this moment.”

Jesus’ followers asked him, “When will the kingdom come?” He answered, “It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘Look, there it is.’ Rather, the father’s kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people do not see it.”

If you bring forth that which is within you, that which is within you will save you. If you fail to bring forth that which is within you, that which is within you will kill you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you dwell in poverty, and you are poverty.

The kingdom of Heaven is within you, and whosoever knoweth himself shall find it.

Ken31`
Ken31`
  bigfoot
September 29, 2022 4:42 pm

I think Thomas is legit. It may be apocryphal, but I don’t think it deserves to be lumped in with Gnosticism.

Maybe the early church was afraid of it causing confusion because it requires some faith for understanding and biblical knowledge for context.

flash
flash
  Ken31`
September 29, 2022 5:06 pm

IV. CONCLUSION
If Thomas was based on the Diatessaron and the two documents issue from
the same strand of early Syriac Christianity, this has fascinating implications for our study of the second-century Church, implications which I hope
other scholars will pursue. But in returning to the issue at hand, the quest
for the historical Jesus and Thomas’s status as the Fifth Gospel, I would
suggest we must reassess the emerging view. We can no longer hold to our
romantic vision of Thomas as a naïve, artless compiler of Jesus sayings. More
importantly, we can no longer envisage the collection as an early and therefore reliable witness of the Jesus tradition. We have brought Thomas into the
station. We have listened to his story. But now that we have run a background
check, I suggest we can only say: “It’s late. And it’s time to send Thomas
home.”
29
https://drmsh.com/PaleoBabble/PerrinThomas.pdf

Soup
Soup
September 29, 2022 5:06 pm

Begs the question…what Gospel?

Richard Cranium
Richard Cranium
September 29, 2022 10:33 pm

I believe everyone should be using Eugene Peterson’s “The Massage”.

That settles it.

Anonymous
Anonymous
September 29, 2022 11:01 pm

Or just reject abrahamism and save yourself 40k hours of mindfuckery and judaism.

Anon y mous
Anon y mous
  Anonymous
September 30, 2022 12:50 am

So you do not worship the one God, who made you and all of creation because you don’t like how some of the people behave, don’t like the source of the truth?