Guest Post by Moon of Alabama
As a sign of the turning narrative of the war in Ukraine we find a new New York Times piece about ‘disinformation’ that is not about Russia but about lies from Ukraine.
Andrew E. Kramer, the NYT correspondent in Kiev, opens with an anecdote from the first weeks of the war:
Six weeks after Russia launched its full-scale invasion, Ukraine sank the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, dealing a serious blow to the enemy navy, and, a Ukrainian official said, killing the ship’s captain.“We do not mourn,” an adviser to the interior minister at the time, Anton Gerashchenko, said.
The only problem was that the captain — or somebody who resembled him — later appeared in a video of survivors released by the Russian Navy. He had escaped his sinking ship, the Moskva, the video seemed to indicate.
Then comes a paragraph that could fit both countries but the following one it is again related to disinformation from Ukraine:
What is clear is that misdirection, disinformation and propaganda are weapons regularly deployed in Russia’s war in Ukraine to buoy spirits at home, demoralize the enemy or lead opponents into a trap. And it is often hard to know when reports are false or why they may have been disseminated.Now, Ukraine and Russia are offering dueling narratives over whether a more senior Russian naval officer, the commanding admiral of the Black Sea Fleet, is alive or dead.
Well, in this interview Adm. Viktor Sokolov looks quite alive.
Then comes an astonishing admission:
Few military analysts, […], believe the Ukrainian military’s optimistic daily account of Russian casualties running into the hundreds that is nonetheless reported widely in Ukrainian media.
It is the first time I see a public refutation of Ukraine’s laughable claims about Russian casualties in the mainstream media. It is also an indictment of the Biden administration and the Pentagon who publicly use the Ukrainian numbers.
The piece ends with a wise acknowledgement:
Mr. Gerashchenko said that, in the end, war propaganda is only effective when it accompanies battlefield successes. The missile strike on the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet last week, he said, was a “stunning success of Ukrainian intelligence and the air force that fired the cruise missiles on a supposedly well-defended site.”“You cannot win the propaganda war without winning the real war,” he added.
Oh really? Guess who told you so:
- Disarming Ukraine – Day 13 – Lies Do Not Win Wars – Moon of Alabama, March 8 2022
- Propaganda Does Not Change The War – The Ukraine Is Still Losing – Moon of Alabama, March 25 2022
- No – Such Propaganda Delusions Will Not Win The War – Moon of Alabama, June 8 2023
Good to see that this obvious truth is finally sinking in.
The United States and its allies continue to arm the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the Kiev regime throws untrained soldiers into senseless assaults, for slaughter.Such cynical actions by the West and their cronies in Kiev only encourage Ukraine to self-destruct.”
“Under these conditions, we continue to increase the combat power of the Armed Forces, including through the supply of modern weapons and improving the training of troops, taking into account the experience of a special military operation. Consistent implementation of the activities of the Action Plan until 2025 will allow us to achieve our goals.”
Shoigu expects the war to run throughout 2024 and into 2025. But if the current loss rate of the Ukrainian army continues the country will be running out of soldiers and armored vehicles before the end of next year.
- Canada’s House speaker steps down after making tribute to Nazi veteran
- Canada’s honoring of Nazi vet exposes Ottawa’s longstanding Ukraine policy
- 60 Minutes video (1997) about Nazis war criminals living in Canada
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NYT Editor 1 “No ones buying the paper.”
NYT Editor 2 “OK, start publishing true stories again. We just need rebuild the baseline audience trust, and then we simply return to publishing propaganda. People are generally credulous. “
“rebuild trust”
not going to happen.
Have you seen the next crop of propaganda victims?
Their brains were mushed by the schools.
Most people I talk to have no idea what is going on in Ukraine. I was talking to a customer and they were still talking about sunflowers and other nonsense. These people do not understand even the point that Russia is going easy because they consider most Ukrainians Russian and have family there.
Saw this on Southfront where Ukrainian Barrier squads shoot their own men if they don’t fight.
https://southfront.press/in-video-18-ukrainian-barrier-squad-in-action/
Here is one that just came out.
https://southfront.press/in-video-russian-soldiers-rescued-wounded-ukrainian-from-ukrainian-punishers/
“Russia is going easy because they consider most Ukrainians Russian”
Then why are people claiming numbers like half a million dead (and gloating about it)? Wouldn’t the humane thing if you were trying to save your brothers to have been to take out or capture the leadership and install a puppet government? To end it quickly?
I think you are forgetting who you mean by ‘they.’ Russians probably think that. The people behind the war don’t. If you think they care about the people, then just look at the clotshot.
PS: I don’t normally watch these kind of videos, but I did since you linked them. That could be the case, or it could just be the interpretation of whoever posted them.
I was speaking of civilians and the infrastructure that they need to survive.
Ukrainians are being forced to die just like the citizens are in any other war.
I think the only ones gloating are the so called US government political class. They are the ones getting rich.
Let me ask you just one thing and it really doesn’t matter to me: If somebody can film all these negro youths looting from a thousand different phones, is it not possible that one of the largest military countries can film from a drone Ukrainians shooting their own people?
You misunderstood. I meant it is quite possible, but we can’t know because we aren’t seeing what people on the ground see. Drones are very useful tools, but footage from them doesn’t necessarily mean anything without context.
Let me give an example. Remember the murder of Lavoy Finicum? The feds gave their side of the story. Then the aerial footage was leaked, so people watching tended to believe the official version. Only later were people showing the other details that proved it was all bullshit. One thing was the terrain, which is viewed completely different from above and on the ground.
People used to talk about how fucked up and confusing war is, but now everyone looks at footage like it is a videogame and assume it all makes sense because they can look down on it.
“I think the only ones gloating are the so called US government political class. They are the ones getting rich.”
Oligarchs in Russia are getting richer as well, and people all over are gloating over either Russian or Ukrainian dead.
Sorry it took so long to respond.
What I am saying is that the world has reached a point that people have gone into a self imposed shell where they believe something did not happen unless they actually saw it. People on this site say that. It is a screwed up way to go about life, doubting everything and does nothing to change reality.
Next it will be that Matthew Brady’s photographs are fake and that the Civil War never happened.
We all have to use our own judgement on whether something looks fake or not. Some people are idiots and call everything fake while coincidentally taking the same stance as many people who make detailed videos about nothing. Some are just trolling.
I am mostly just cautioning taking others’ intrepretations at face value.
Incidentally, I can believe that blocking units would be used by either side because I have such a low regard for their leadership and secret police.
Putin will surrender next week. Then you will see that Ukraine has been truthful all along.
Watched some CNN, too, huh?
Overthecliff has a full fridge of purple koolaide. Drinks it all day long.
Sarcasm?
b told us so, by linking to old articles that include predictions of his that are wildly wrong.
There is no reason to believe propaganda by either side. And listening to Shoigu is retarded.
Just then the meteor larger than Manhattan island strikes the earth…
Zelensky “Another 30,000 Ukraine souls were dispatched today on the battlefield…more wine anyone?”
“Save it for a ukrainy day.”
WTF are you talking about? I caught a few minutes of CNN, and learned that Ukraine had seized Moscow six months ago, Zelenskyy was made Tsar, and that Putin never really existed.
Total (((US State Department Victory))).
At least that’s what they were saying, I thing. I don’t speak Yiddish, so I’m just guessing.
We need a few Putin’s here in the US to help us with the NAZI DEEP STATE problem we have here…. and in Canada.
The deep state is not nationalist.
Not even close.
Putin ain’t doing shit.
“NAZI DEEP STATE”
oh you boomers
How is the weather in Langley traitor?
Says the paid subversive.
I hear the FBI love the taste of cock.
I’m not surprised you do.
The American, European, and Canadian, people are getting taught some very important lessons about just how apocalyptically stupid their so called leaders really are. Biden is an absolute moron, and pathological liar, who thinks he gains some degree of credibility by lying through his teeth with conviction, and then wondering off, unable to figure out even where he is.
Harris must have bumped her head way too many times on the underside of Willie Browns desk, as her IQ is obviously in sub 60 territory.
McConnell, Pelosi, and Schumer are too senile to put together two sentences that make sense.
Trudeau and the Canadian Parliament are real life depictions of the movie Idiocracy.
Europe is sabotaging its own future and impoverishing itself to support the worst racist autocracy since the Third Reich.
These are the mentally inept assclowns that are empowered to lead the world into ultimate destruction as they flirt with WW3. And as imbecilic and brain dead as they are not even the real problem, they are a symptom of the problem. You see we cannot blame them, because we put them there. How stupid are we?