IT’S THEM AGAIN BOO BOO

Submitted by nkit

Via USSANews

Men Gang Rape 13-Year-Old Girl, Victim Insulted By Judge’s Sentence

When a 13-year-old girl suffered an unimaginably brutal sexual assault at the hands of six men, she never thought she’d be humiliated by the judge. However, that’s exactly what happened when she heard the paltry sentence two of them were handed. Her family is furious. Is this justice? You decide.

Stonebrook Terrace apartment complex in Colorado Springs, Colorado (Photo Credit: Screen Capture/Google Maps)

An unnamed 13-year-old girl was inside the Stonebrook Terrace apartment complex in Colorado Springs, Colorado, when she was tragically gang-raped by a group of six men, who were all related to one another as cousins and brothers. The girl knew one of the suspects, and the six were all later identified as Tommy Williams, Clarence Williams, Jacolby Williams, Tyron Williams, James Williams, and an unnamed juvenile.

After one of the men invited the teen to the apartment to play video games, she went to the home with some female friends. However, while she was in the bathroom, her friends left, and her nightmare soon unfolded. Two of the men pulled the teen from the bathroom and forced her into a bedroom where the other four suspects were waiting. The victim’s grandmother said that her granddaughter was passed around the group of men “like a hand on a clock” during the attack, adding that the 13-year-old may never be able to have children, Fox News reported.

Tommy Williams & Clarence Williams Get Probation For Gang Raping 13-Year-Old
Tommy Williams (Photo Credit: Colorado Springs Police Department)

Sadly, it doesn’t seem she’ll see any justice either after Tommy Williams, 20, and Clarence Williams, 19, were each only sentenced to serve an “intensive supervised probation,” meaning no jail time, although they could have faced life in prison, according to The Gazette. Instead, at least 10 years of sex offender intensive supervised probation with a maximum of life on probation is all these monsters will face, KKTV reported, but it gets worse.

Two of the other four defendants who came before the court prior to Clarence and Tommy Williams got the similar sentences when they too were given probation rather than being thrown behind bars. While it is unclear what sentence the unidentified juvenile or Jacolby Williams received, James Williams was only given a five-year probation sentence.

Tommy Williams & Clarence Williams Get Probation For Gang Raping 13-Year-Old
Clarence Williams (Photo Credit: Colorado Springs Police Department)
Jacolby Williams (Photo Credit: Colorado Springs Police Department)

According to a previous report by KKTV, Tyron Williams was sentenced to 10 years to life of sex offender intense supervised probation like Tommy and Clarence Williams. He apologized to the victim and her family and reportedly said, “If I knew she was underage, it wouldn’t have happened in the first place.”

But, his words offer little comfort for the victim and her family, who are rightfully outraged that at least four of the men escaped jail time after being convicted of the heinous crime. “There was six of them, and they gang-raped my granddaughter,” the young girl’s grandfather, shocked by the verdict, said. And, who can blame him for his disbelief?

James Williams (Photo Credit: Colorado Springs Police Department)
Tyron Williams (Photo Credit: Colorado Springs Police Department)

Rape is a vicious and violent crime. The rape of a child is even more disturbing. Gang rape is even worse yet. At least four gang rapists walked free in this case, and probation will do little to stop them from striking again. We depend on our justice system to keep the public safe. But, it failed miserably in this case.

Giving gang rapists a slap on the wrist hardly discourages other monsters from doing the same nor will it stop these predators from creating more victims. This is a travesty, and the world needs to know about it. We need to demand more from our courts. This was someone’s daughter, who these beasts treated like a sex doll, leaving her injured to the point she may never bear children. We must stand up and let authorities know that this is not okay. We expect more. It’s time the justice system stops coddling criminals and gives them the punishments they deserve. Probation for gang rape is hardly adequate.

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122 Comments
TN Patriot
TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 8:15 am

Sometimes predatory animals need to be hunted down and put out of our misery.

Glock-N-Load
Glock-N-Load
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 8:35 am

This is what grandfathers are for. IMO

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Glock-N-Load
May 9, 2024 4:13 pm

Agreed. A 3 year life sentence isn’t that much of a deterrence.

Anarcho libertarian
Anarcho libertarian
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 11:07 am

What was the skin color of the vic again?

Anonymouse
Anonymouse
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 11:35 am

The animals are lucky it wasn’t my family member…those are good pictures.

anon a moos
anon a moos
  Anonymouse
May 8, 2024 11:45 am

Fucking right. An asswipe attacked my daughter when she was coming home from school. I went hunting. The cops went and told the grandfather where the piece of shit lived and told him there was a very angry white guy looking for the shit stain. He turned himself in about 30 minutes later.

A friend was a cop then and I told him if I find the fucker first, they could stop looking because they won’t find it. He knew I was serious and why they went to the grandfather. I would do it today sa well if some shit touches my grandkids. in a heartbeat.

The time for being nice, or tolerant, is way past its time.

eraser
eraser
  anon a moos
May 8, 2024 2:20 pm

Way past time and I’m all out of fucks.

YourAverageJoe
YourAverageJoe
  anon a moos
May 8, 2024 4:42 pm

I pray you never face that again, but if you do, don’t tell the cops your intentions.
Just do it and be sure to leave no evidence.

Daddy Joe
Daddy Joe
  YourAverageJoe
May 8, 2024 11:12 pm

Yes

Anonymous
Anonymous
  YourAverageJoe
May 9, 2024 4:15 pm

Shoot. Shovel. Shut Up.

Anon
Anon
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 12:27 pm

Start a go fund me? You would get substantial contributions.

Check Six
Check Six
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 2:00 pm

The KKK had a purpose. This is likely our only option going forward…

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
  Check Six
May 8, 2024 5:18 pm

Nope. No right leaning group can survive the surveillance state. BLM, Auntie Fa, Hamas, etc. are free to create havoc, but the KKK would be infiltrated and sent to the slammer for a very, very long time.

It is best to hunt by yourself.

Check Six
Check Six
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 10:38 pm

TN, I agree. Individual practitioner or very small, long acquainted group. Don’t need to carry a membership card, a phone, iPad, or a vehicle with a tracking package.

As the IRA practiced: one shot and walk away.

Rifles are the Cure
Rifles are the Cure
  Check Six
May 9, 2024 12:20 am

And Italian mobsters too.
One .22 under the chin makes scrambled egg grey matter at 1000 FPS. The bullet never leaves the skull.

Daddy Joe
Daddy Joe
  TN Patriot
May 8, 2024 11:20 pm

TN, Amen to both sentences. The word we are seeking is “disappeared”. This country doesn’t need more groups. It needs a million cells of 1 each and each cell willing to disappear something/ someone or get disappeared trying. DISAPPEARED needs to become more common than “died suddenly”. It’s the future, if we are going to have one.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
  Daddy Joe
May 9, 2024 8:59 am

Disappeared suddenly should become the norm for a lot of lowlifes and the bureaucrats who promote them.

Bark
Bark
  Check Six
May 8, 2024 11:04 pm

Sic semper Australopithecus (thus always to niggers)

Dane
Dane
May 8, 2024 8:15 am

It sure would be nice to have organized groups that can go and pay a visit to these joggers, and give them their due punishment.

Javelin
Javelin
  Dane
May 8, 2024 10:00 am

I have plenty of PTO.. who’s in for a road trip?

Anarcho libertarian
Anarcho libertarian
  Javelin
May 8, 2024 11:16 am

Was the vic light-skinned? If so, I would be down for it. Otherwise, I’ll let them take care of their own.

CCRider
CCRider
May 8, 2024 8:17 am

I’d be outraged if it was a white girl from a stable 2 parent home. But chances are it was some poor black child from a single parent unit (home doesn’t work here.) So, get used to it. It’s what you voted for.

Aunt Acid
Aunt Acid
  CCRider
May 8, 2024 9:30 am

Voat harderer then?

CCRider
CCRider
  Aunt Acid
May 8, 2024 9:41 am

Surprisingly you overlooked the irony. Tsk tsk.

anon a moos
anon a moos
  Aunt Acid
May 8, 2024 11:48 am

moar harderer Auntie… MOAR harderer

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  CCRider
May 8, 2024 4:43 pm

There’s something wrong with your soul to think that way about children.

NO child should ever have to go through that. Hard stop. Mike drop.

CCRider
CCRider
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 8, 2024 7:25 pm

Blow me.

a9racer
a9racer
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 8, 2024 10:13 pm

Probably the only time I have ever agreed with The Scrote. No child deserves that.

CCRider
CCRider
  a9racer
May 9, 2024 7:30 am

I referenced her as a “poor black child’. That’s called sympathy. But in this old world you get what your actions deserve. Sons without fathers? Daughters taught how to twerk? That’s how you get tragedies like this.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  CCRider
May 9, 2024 11:21 am

Well it comes off like derision on a nigger hating web site. Think about your audience for a fucking change.

CCRider
CCRider
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 9, 2024 12:28 pm

I don’t give a fuck about an audience that includes you. Now back off, I’m tired of you slamming your ugly face on my fists.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 10, 2024 3:12 pm

So then, keep our daughters away from the hebrews, right?

See: Judges 19

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2024 8:18 am

Make lynching great again, any mention of the race of the victim ?

JOSEY WALES
JOSEY WALES
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 8:52 am

NOT A PEEP.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  JOSEY WALES
May 8, 2024 10:05 am

The MSM’s silence is confirmation.

Tse-tse Scrute
Tse-tse Scrute
  Anonymous
May 9, 2024 2:44 pm

MNHA

Make Niggers Hang Again

Jw
Jw
May 8, 2024 8:28 am

Just stay the f$ck away from them! Have “the talk” and get the hell away from them if possible.

Ed
Ed
May 8, 2024 8:28 am

“We need to demand more from our courts.”

Uhh…yeah, that’ll fix everything. I have a better idea.

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"
  Ed
May 8, 2024 12:00 pm

Me too.

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2024 8:44 am
Aunt Acid
Aunt Acid
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 9:51 am

Kill that murdering animal and any of its issue, just to be certain.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Aunt Acid
May 8, 2024 10:08 am

Sorry about the censored link on The People’s Billionaire™ ‘s site. The original is also gone. Are there any sites that mirror and preserve censored Tweets?

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 3:32 pm

Here it is again, still uncensored, in a Turkish Twitter:

I guess Turkey is more for free speech than USAUSAUSA.

Texas Khaan
Texas Khaan
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 6:13 pm

To hell with Xcrement and E. Musk, btw, wtf stinks around here? Could it be that some billionaire grifter tried to mask the sewage stank with cheap ass cologne branded “musk” ?

Tse-tse Scrute
Tse-tse Scrute
  Anonymous
May 9, 2024 2:45 pm

It is now!

Glock-N-Load
Glock-N-Load
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 3:37 pm

Wow, I can’t believe that is on Twitter.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Glock-N-Load
May 8, 2024 3:53 pm

See? Elon is on our side! He loves us – he really loves us.

Musk For World President!

Tr4head
Tr4head
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 7:27 pm

He is AntiChrist.

Ginger
Ginger
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 6:16 pm

Here is an article about some ‘boys’ running around in this small town I used to live near.Scotland Neck NC, a wonderful town in Eastern NC sort of like the one in that movie Its a Wonderful Life.
https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/nc-police-forced-to-release-boys-with-guns-running-through-streets-going-armed-to-the-terror-of-the-public-chief-says/

JIMSKI
JIMSKI
May 8, 2024 8:49 am

Suggest sticky this topic like friday fail as it is so America right now……

JOSEY WALES
JOSEY WALES
May 8, 2024 8:51 am

WE USED TO HANG SCUM LIKE THESE.

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
May 8, 2024 9:03 am

The judge has an address, so do these scum.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  MrLiberty
May 8, 2024 9:16 am

Don’t recall any Coons when I hiked Pikes Peak. Everyone in town must know who they are?

Mountain Rat
Mountain Rat
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 8:20 pm

Colorado Springs got a flood of these people after Katrina. It has grown like crazy the last 25yrs and is not the same city it used to be.

Colorado has been ruined by growth because it has been mostly liberals and other assorted trash.

Javelin
Javelin
  MrLiberty
May 8, 2024 10:12 am

Judge Michael McHenry..was prior a public defender for “indigent rape and murder suspects”
Seems like he’s still defending them.

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"
  Javelin
May 8, 2024 12:08 pm

Only a rapist defends another rapist. I just tell the truth.

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"
  MrLiberty
May 8, 2024 12:02 pm

Think the same.

david
david
May 8, 2024 9:35 am

“I’m sorry I didn’t know she was underage. I only gang rape women of age”

Tse-tse Scrute
Tse-tse Scrute
  david
May 9, 2024 2:46 pm

Comment of year nominee!^^^^^^^^^

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Administrator
May 8, 2024 10:09 am

German Politician Fined for Linking to Articles About Crime Statistics. Could This be Me Next?
https://www.unz.com/isteve/german-politician-fined-for-linking-to-articles-about-crime-statistics-could-this-be-me-next/

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 12:11 pm

Therefore, we must return to shaking up the internet with links made on the deep web. Hate crime is massacring despicable vermin like these guys.

Harrington Richardson-Biden Swirls The Shitter
Harrington Richardson-Biden Swirls The Shitter
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 12:25 pm

Facts and reality are now outlawed in Germany.

A cruel accountant
A cruel accountant
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 4:23 pm

Admin

Just let us know where you’re at.

we got your back.

Harrington Richardson-Biden Swirls The Shitter
Harrington Richardson-Biden Swirls The Shitter
  Administrator
May 8, 2024 12:23 pm

The Germans should set up goat fucking stations on the street like they try to do with car chargers. Problem solved for the Afghans but they would have to secure the goats so the Africans can’t steal them.

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"

Lol

bidenTouchesKids
bidenTouchesKids
May 8, 2024 9:57 am

Yet more black privilege on display. Guarantee if they’d been White the judge would have thrown the book at them.

Tse-tse Scrute
Tse-tse Scrute
  bidenTouchesKids
May 9, 2024 2:48 pm

If had been six white men raping a 13 year old black girl it would have been front page news being blasted around the earth 24/7.

Yahsure
Yahsure
May 8, 2024 10:40 am

We have gotten to a point where criminals don’t get in trouble. It’s fuked up.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Yahsure
May 8, 2024 10:46 am

Trust me on this. Once you’re forced to be your own policeman? There will be plenty of justice to go with all that trouble.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 8, 2024 11:41 am

Deep state bot seeks to encourage us to act in ways that will suit the ruling narrative by appealing to our natural inclination to protect our own.

Scru off.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 4:48 pm

I advocate for survival. MY survival. You, I could care less about. And it looks like everyone here is getting it but you.

It’s the logical extension of the thought “no one is coming to save you”.

You don’t have to like it, but if you want to live, you better start fuckin’ believing it!

Aunt Acid
Aunt Acid
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 8, 2024 6:49 pm

“…I could care less…”
-TCS

That’s right.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Aunt Acid
May 9, 2024 11:23 am

THe same goes for every Jew hater on the planet. Just DGAF about any of you. You made your bed of brimstone. Fry in it.

Harrington Richardson-Biden Swirls The Shitter
Harrington Richardson-Biden Swirls The Shitter
  Yahsure
May 8, 2024 12:27 pm

It is called anarcho tyranny.

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2024 10:43 am

Sentence – GLOCK .45

anon a moos
anon a moos
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 11:50 am

baseball bat would be much more fun, really get into the work. Trouble is trying to wipe the grin off your face afterwards. Thats where the real work is…

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  anon a moos
May 8, 2024 4:49 pm

Would you prefer barbed wire or nails with that Louisville Slugger?

And try to avoid permanent “Joker” face!

KV
KV
May 8, 2024 11:41 am

They would be sentenced to death one by one if that was my daughter.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  KV
May 8, 2024 11:49 am

Were, not was, my daughter . . .

Actually, “Had been” would be even more grammatical.

Caring about your daughter, and grammar, are both part of preserving The West, writes Sasha Latypova https://sashalatypova.substack.com/:

https://sashalatypova.substack.com/p/on-mind-control-part-2-word-to-vector?utm_source=publication-search

https://sashalatypova.substack.com/p/are-you-programmable-mind-control?utm_source=publication-search

anon a moos
anon a moos
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 1:33 pm

Fuck Off asswipe. equating fucking grammar to a child’s life means you and sasha can go fuck yourselves with a wire brush. FYI, languages evolve whether you douche bags like it or not.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  anon a moos
May 8, 2024 3:55 pm

That’s devolution, not evolution. You fuck off. And I wasn’t “equating grammar to a raped child”, you interminable threetard. The disregard of grammar absolutely parallels the decline of the rest that you protest. Grow up and smell the truth. Stop being proud of being stupid and sloppy, else stop pretending you’re not part of the problem.

anon a moos
anon a moos
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 6:03 pm

So language has devolved from cuneiform to todays written language. Seems you’re to stoopid for your own good but you make a fine douchebag

Grammar Fail
Grammar Fail
  Anonymous
May 10, 2024 3:21 pm

That’s devolution, not evolution. You fuckoff. And I wasn’t “equating grammar to a raped child”, you interminable three-tard. The disregard of grammar absolutely parallels the decline of the rest that you protest. Grow up and smell the truth. Stop being proud of being stupid and sloppy, else stop pretending you’re not part of the problem.

Fixed it for you.

Tse-tse Scrute
Tse-tse Scrute
  Anonymous
May 9, 2024 2:50 pm

If only you had used perfect grammer, I might extend empathy.
/s

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"
May 8, 2024 11:58 am

Here in Brazil, these 6 cowards would be chopped up and buried in the middle of some forest with their dicks and testicles in their mouths.

Mentally ill is what they are.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  A follower of "Frank Castle"
May 8, 2024 12:00 pm

Yes, but they are criminals, not ill.

A follower of "Frank Castle"
A follower of "Frank Castle"
  Anonymous
May 8, 2024 12:19 pm

Not in my eyes. Criminals steal bags and kill innocent people. People with mental illnesses rape and the cure is the bottom of the earth eternally eating grass by the roots.

Perfect Stranger
Perfect Stranger
  A follower of "Frank Castle"
May 8, 2024 1:20 pm

They are just low IQ with no impulse control.

They should be worm food.

flyingcow
flyingcow
May 8, 2024 12:16 pm

Ship these savages back to Wakanda…

Anonymous
Anonymous
  flyingcow
May 8, 2024 4:25 pm

Where’s that?

Grammar Fail
Grammar Fail
  Anonymous
May 10, 2024 3:22 pm

Haiti.

Noother.
Noother.
May 8, 2024 12:17 pm

So there was a reason people formed citizen protection groups.

The government let their feral apes loose in your neighborhoods.

aClue
aClue
May 8, 2024 12:36 pm

Why report it, when you know it will be mishandled intentionally? sort it out quietly and permanently.

Daddy Joe
Daddy Joe
  aClue
May 8, 2024 11:28 pm

aClue, Yes. KTA. “disappear em”

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2024 12:47 pm

There’s a reason our ancestors hanged feral dogs of all colors.

Chas
Chas
May 8, 2024 2:01 pm

Judge Michael McHenry has 3 kids….

zappalives
zappalives
May 8, 2024 2:44 pm

I just want to say FUCK YOU to all the NIGGERLOVING democrats who read this !

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  zappalives
May 8, 2024 4:54 pm

So, it’s love or hate with you, is it? No room in that pin head of yours for ambivalence?

I’m really not surprised.

Here’s a “niggercock” to grow on!

zappalives
zappalives
  The Central Scrutinizer
May 8, 2024 5:48 pm

Fuck you niggerlover !

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  zappalives
May 9, 2024 11:25 am

You have no fucking IDEA what I love, moron.

beau
beau
May 8, 2024 3:52 pm

when the law fails, citizens will step into the breech. that time is very close. this is an absolute abomination and an affront to any normal human being.

we all know what should be done.

Will the Scot
Will the Scot
  beau
May 8, 2024 5:32 pm

Soon, 500-yard justice will be common.

Daddy Joe
Daddy Joe
  Will the Scot
May 8, 2024 11:30 pm

Will, 300 yd with suppressor may be good option.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Daddy Joe
May 9, 2024 11:26 am

or 100 feet with a .22 short.

The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
  Will the Scot
May 9, 2024 11:26 am

I prefer 1000. 800 minimum.

lamont cranston
lamont cranston
May 8, 2024 5:50 pm

Back in the early 19070s, a black man raped an Ole Miss sorority girl in Philadelphia, Miss.

He was found a week later, hog-tied with barbed wire to a tree.

Dead. With his penis stuck in his mouth.

charles zilich
charles zilich
May 8, 2024 6:22 pm

and just look at them.

Tr4head
Tr4head
May 8, 2024 7:34 pm

OK Capital Punishment haters. I have a solution and would be perfect for these freaks of nature (Frankenstein monsters created by the Left as part of the Takeover America plan):

Life IN the Electric Chair.

Daddy Joe
Daddy Joe
  Tr4head
May 8, 2024 11:32 pm

Tr4, short, but very exciting.

HulahoopsAreReal
HulahoopsAreReal
  Tr4head
May 9, 2024 2:54 pm

Why not build the electricution conveyor belts the nazis used at Bullschwitz?

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2024 8:03 pm

The only thing these low lifes understand is brute force. Can only hope someone takes care of business!

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2024 8:35 pm

Exactly why I taught my daughter to avoid niggers at all cost. She is repulsed by them thank God.

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 9, 2024 1:17 am

what race was the victim?

NoFvcksGiven
NoFvcksGiven
May 9, 2024 2:01 am

Well, she wanted to hang out with a nigger. She got more than she bargained for.
A niggerina would have known better, so let this be a lesson for all white girls out there.

Captain Quaalude
Captain Quaalude
May 9, 2024 4:18 am

Remember your 3 S’s.

Ghost
Ghost
May 9, 2024 8:56 am

This is horrifying, indeed, and while I hope the family gets their own justice for this poor child, I hope the other young girls who abandoned her learned a good life lesson and get on their knees for salvation.

Ghost (100)
Ghost (100)
May 9, 2024 8:57 am

One hundred.

For EC.

Kirves
Kirves
May 9, 2024 9:51 am

Couldn’t even look at the mugshots. Got my blood boiling

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 9, 2024 10:16 am

This is why these apes are hated by most of the country!

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 9, 2024 1:50 pm

Who do they think they are –Hollywood directors?

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 9, 2024 4:12 pm

A little homemade napalm would solve that pest problem.