THE FOURTH TURNING – SKIES DARKENING

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Posted on 31st August 2010 by avalon in Economy |Politics |Social Issues

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William Strauss and Neil Howe published The Fourth Turning in 1997. This was before the internet bubble, before the housing bubble, before 9/11, before the two wars in the Middle East, and before the financial collapse of 2008. They made a strong case for their generational theory of history. Everything that has happened since 1997 supports their theory. We are currently in the early stages of the Fourth Turning. In the last two chapters of their book, they describe the possibilities during a Fourth Turning. In the last section of the book they provide guidance on how to prepare responsibly for a Fourth Turning. Without preparation, the Fourth Turning is much worse. Below is a description of Fourth Turning possibilities, the preparations that were recommended by Strauss & Howe, and my assessment of how prepared we are as a country.

“What will America be like as it exits the Fourth Turning?

History offers no guarantees. Obviously, things could go horribly wrong – the possibilities ranging from a nuclear exchange to uncurable plagues, from terrorist anarchy to high tech dictatorship. We should not assume that Providence will always exempt our nation from the irreversible tragedies that have overtaken so many others: not just temporary hardship, but debasement and total ruin. Since Vietnam, many Americans suppose they know what it means to lose a war. Losing in the next Fourth Turning, however, could mean something incomparably worse. It could mean a lasting defeat from which our national innocence – and perhaps even our nation – might never recover.

If America plunges into an era of depression or violence which by then has not lifted, we will likely look back on the 1990s as the decade when we valued all the wrong things and made all the wrong choices.”

“However sober we must be about the dark possibilities of Crisis, the record of prior Fourth Turnings gives cause for optimism. With five of the past six Crises. it is hard to imagine more uplifting finales. Even after the Civil War, the American faith in progress returned with a new robustness. As a people, we have always done best when challenged. The New World still stands as a beacon of hope and virtue for the Old, and we have every reason to believe this can contine.

By the middle 2020s, the archetypal constellation will change, as each generation begins entering a new phase of life. If the Crisis ends badly, very old Boomers could be truly despised. Generation X might provide the demagogues, authoritarians, even the tribal warlords who try to pick up the pieces.

History is seasonal, but its outcomes are not foreordained. Much will depend on how tall we stand in the trials to come. But there is more to do than just wait for that time to come. The course of our national and personal destinies will depend in large measure on what we do now, as a society and as individuals, to prepare.”

Preparations Needed (1997 – 2006)

In their chapter on preparations for the Fourth Turning, Strauss and Howe essentially tell Americans to grow up. Give up the bad habits that had become part of our life during the Unraveling. We needed to prepare as if a blizzard was headed our way.

“Reflect on what happens when a terrible winter blizzard strikes. You hear the weather warning but probably fail to act on it. The sky darkens. Then the storm hits with full fury, and the air is a howling whiteness. One by one, your links to the machine age break down. Electricity flickers out, cutting off the TV. Batteries fade, cutting off the radio. Phones go dead. Roads become impossible, and cars get stuck. Food supplies dwindle. Day to day vestiges of modern civilization – bank machines, mutual funds, mass retailers, computers, satellites, airplanes, governments – all recede into irrelevance. Picture yourself and your loved ones in the midst of a howling blizzard that lasts several years. Think about what you would need, who could help you, and why your fate might matter to anybody other than yourself. That is how to plan for a saecular winter. Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted.”

Their suggested preparations as a country and as individuals were:

America’s Recommended Preparations

  • Prepare values: Forge the consensus and uplift the culture, but don’t expect near-term results.
  • Prepare institutions: Clear the debris and find out what works, but don’t try to building anything big.
  • Prepare politics: Define challenges bluntly and stress duties over rights, but don’t attempts reforms that can’t now be accomplished.
  • Prepare society: Require community teamwork to solve local problems, but don’t try this on a national scale.
  • Prepare youth: Treat childrenas the nation’s highest priority, but don’t do their work for them.
  • Prepare elders: Tell future elders they will need to be more self-sufficient, but don’t attempt deep cuts in benefits to current elders.
  • Prepare the economy: Correct fundamentals, but don’t try to fine tune current performance.
  • Prepare the defense: Expect the worst and prepare to mobilize, but don’t precommit to any one response.

How America Prepared

No consensus on values was forged. The culture became more decadent and materialistic between 1997 and 2006. Get rich quick became the rallying cry. Institutions became larger and more unwieldy. Federal and state governments doubled in size between 1997 and 2006. They became addicted to tax revenue from the Internet and housing booms. They enacted thousands of new rules, regulations and laws. The debris has not been cleared. The country failed miserably in preparing politics. Blunt truthfulness about our national problems was needed from our leaders. Public purpose and collective duties should have been preached by our leaders. Instead, personal rights and entitlements were promised to every constituent. Corrupt politicians in Washington DC have fed the slide into cynicism, apathy and malaise with their false rhetoric and spineless inability to own up to the truth about the financial obligations that cannot be honored.

Society has not prepared for the Fourth Turning by stressing teamwork, civic duty, and self sacrifice for the betterment of our country. Local communities have not improved schools, housing, or transportation. People have continued to group themselves along party lines. The Millenial generation who will do the heavy lifting during this Fourth Turning have not been raised to understand how important their efforts will be needed in the next 15 years. We have not educated them properly and they have not been made to understand their importance. The elderly have not become more self sufficient. They have become more dependent. More entitlements have been passed for the elderly, making our fiscal picture much worse than it was in 1997. The elderly are prepared to wage a generational war for their goodies. 

The preparation of our economy for the Fourth Turning has been a complete and utter disaster. We needed to raise the national savings rate in preparation for the difficult times ahead. Instead it went to 0%. We needed to reduce debt. We doubled it. We needed to balance the budget. The deficits are beyond comprehension. We needed to under consume. We consumed at hyper speed levels. Lastly, we needed to prepare for the inevitable major war that always accompanies a Fourth Turning. We needed to conserve our resources and build up our forces for the coming test. Instead, we wasted trillions of dollars and thousands of lives on worthless wars of choice in the Middle East. Our military is stretched to the breaking point. We are completely unprepared for a new major conflict.    

Recommended Individual Preparations

  • Rectify: Return to classic virtues.
  • Converge: Heed emerging comunity norms.
  • Bond: Build personal relationships of all kinds.
  • Gather: Prepare yourself (and your children) for teamwork.
  • Root: Look to your family for support.
  • Brace: Gird for the weakening or collapse of public support mechanisms
  • Hedge: Diversify everything you do.

How Individuals Prepared 

Only you would know whether you are prepared for the Fourth Turning. Can you be counted on by your neighbors? Do you have a reputation as a person of honor and integrity? Are you a good citizen? Lone wolves will not fare well during a Fourth Turning. Team, brand and standard will be new catchwords. Appearances will matter. Society will deal justice in a brutal way. You need to know people who can help you. Personal relationships will be crucial. Face to face interaction with neighbors, fellow workers, the public, and the police will determine whether you are a good guy or bad guy. 

People who work well in teams will more successfully navigate the Crisis. Children will need to be taught to excel in groups. They are likely to be indoctrinated by the government when danger rises. Your family members will be essential to your survival. Being a loner will not bode well for you during the Fourth Turning. Young and old will likely occupy the same household as other supports will disappear. Government benefits are likely to be dramatically cut. Dependence on authority should not be assumed. You will need to protect your wealth. Healthcare services could be limited. Being physically fit will be important. Being a generalist that can do many things well will make you more valuable during the Crisis. Having less debt will allow you more flexibility. The USD is likely to be devalued, so hedging your bets will be important. If the financial markets crash, will you survive? 

As a country, we were completely unprepared for the onset of the current Fourth Turning. We were warned in 1997. We had time to prepare. Instead, we did the exact opposite of what needed to be done. We pressed the accelerator to the floor. Our actions have ensured that this Fourth Turning will be more deadly and brutal than it needed to be. Considering the two previous Fourth Turnings were Depression/WWII and the Civil War, the next 15 years will be grim. As Strauss & Howe point out, this test cannot be avoided: 

“Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning the way you might today distance yourself from news, national politics, or even taxes you don’t feel like paying. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted. The Fourth Turning necessitates the death and rebirth of the social order. It is the ultimate rite of passage for an entire people, requiring a liminal state of sheer chaos whose nature and duration no one can predict in advance.” 

The economic news worsens by the day. Worldwide tensions grow. There are fingers of instability throughout the system. All it will take is a grain of sand falling on the wrong part of the pile to initiate an avalanche of pain and suffering. Our Archduke Ferdinand moment awaits. 

“Thus might the next Fourth Turning end in apocalypse – or glory. The nation could be ruined, its democracy destroyed, and millions of people scattered or killed. Or America could enter a new golden age, triumphantly applying shared values to improve the human condition. The rhythms of history do not reveal the outcome of the coming Crisis; all they suggest is the timing and dimension.

A Fourth Turning harnesses the seasons of life to bring about a renewal in the seasons of time. In so doing, it provides passage through the great discontinuities of history and closes the full circle of the saeculum. The Fourth Turning is when the Spirit of America reappears, rousing courage and fortitude from the people. History is seasonal, but its outcomes are not foreordained. Much will depend on how tall we stand in the trials to come.”  

39 Comments
  1. Tampa Gold says:

    It would be wise for my north easterner friends here to use Hurricane Earl as a practice preperation run.

    Stock up on water, canned food, batteries, and other important items that you would need for a week.
    \
    After the storm passes, continue to pick up a few extra things whenever you go grocery shopping.

    The forth turning will affect these people and they don’t even know it……clip_image00147.jpg

    Don’t end up like that!!!

    1st September 2010 at 12:29 am

  2. that's the way it is says:

    read in the text:

    “The New World still stands as a beacon of hope and virtue for the Old”

    this is the most common disease among American population, and the reason why US governments can wage wars without fearing revolt.

    you have to realize for your own good that the rest of the world is NOT jealous. in fact most of people live happy and don’t even have the start of the beginning of the shape of an “american dream” idea, exept in true shitholes or in Mexico.

    as long as Americans won’t realize that people want to live their way in peace in their country, and don’t want US regulations, US military on their ground, US threats, US blackmail on their economy or defense, ect….the story will repeat and repeat to the end of time.
    peace and prosperity will return with respect. it is a mistake to think that being feared is better.

    1st September 2010 at 1:59 am

  3. Bev says:

    The important film, “The Secret of Oz” by Bill Still, is about our country’s ongoing struggle now and throughout history over who controls money for whose benefit–everyones’ benefit or just the bankers–and reveals the meaning of the economic metaphors in, “The Wizard of Oz” by L. Frank Baum, who in his time was trying to inform people of the same choices in this same struggle we face today.

    http://www.secretofoz.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=155:free-version-of-soz-on-youtube

    Bill Still ( http://www.secretofoz.com/ [email protected] )

    Oz Economics

    How important is this issue worldwide? Having private banks create money is the root cause of all world poverty, hunger, disease and misery. And until we fix it, we will never be able to make a dent in these other issues.

    We can fix this. We can fix it in a matter of months — a year at most. We can make our government the most financially sound in the world — nearly overnight. The government can loan out all the money any state needs to build roads or schools or hospitals – interest free. Approximately half of a state’s infrastructure cost is from interest on borrowed money! When the money is repaid by the states it will all come back to the federal government, preventing inflation. All we have to do is to take back the power to control the quantity of money and put that power into the hands of the federal officials closest to the voting public — namely the Congress of the United States.

    Some say, “Well, those crooks in Congress will create too much money once they get the money power.” But Congress now “creates” all the money it wants! It just creates it as DEBT, which never gets paid back, and which we the people have to continually pay interest on. Instead of creating bonds — or debt — the government could and should be creating DOLLARS, interest-free.

    More money for people.

    Others will say Congress isn’t responsive to the people as it is.

    Well of course not. Politicians are responsive to those with the power. Right now, the banks have the power. We have to take back the ultimate power of any nation – the power over its money. With the power of banks diminished, politicians will become responsive to the voters once again.
    ………

    Look to North Dakota’s State Bank as the example to regrow the jobs and middle class in an honest way. Only 8 states are reviewing for adoption, when all states, all nations should.

    from: Ellen Brown, Web of Debt

    http://webofdebt.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/followup-more-states-may-create-public-banks/
    Followup — More States May Create Public Banks
    Posted on May 21, 2010 by Ellen Brown

    WHAT A GOVERNMENT CAN DO WITH ITS OWN BANK: THE REMARKABLE MODEL OF THE COMMONWEALTH BANK OF AUSTRALIA
    Posted on August 4, 2010 by Ellen Brown

    Virg Bernero, the mayor of Lansing, Michigan, just won the Democratic nomination for governor of his state, making a state-owned Bank of Michigan a real possibility. Bernero is one of at least a dozen candidates promoting that solution to the states’ economic woes.

    Read more here –
    http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/commonwealth_bank_aus.php

    1st September 2010 at 11:55 am

  4. Lawrence Baker says:

    Yes, “The Secret of Oz” is a must see video!
    One must not forget how evil and powerfull these people are, they will blow up the World rather than surrender!
    Finger the real culprits responsible: Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Supreme Court and the CIA that form the Treasonious shadow government.
    We can only begin by bringing them to Justice. One way peacifully(never happen) or by force (the only way it will happen).

    1st September 2010 at 1:00 pm

  5. James Goulding says:

    As a researcher of Strauss and Howe’s work over the last 13- years, I can state without a doubt that I still haven’t found anyone who has predicted societies collective future better than these two.

    Take care,
    James Goulding

    1st September 2010 at 1:38 pm

  6. SSS says:

    Lawrence Baker

    You said, “Finger the real culprits responsible: Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Supreme Court and the CIA that form the Treasonious shadow government.”

    Care to back that up with any facts? Try to avoid posting a gazillion links to articles. Just the facts in your own words. Thx.

    1st September 2010 at 6:17 pm

  7. Oklahoma Chrome says:

    As usual, this is a great piece by Jim. I have always been a supporter of these theories, ideas and predictions. Unfortunately, only a select few will believe any of this. I have banged my head against a brick wall trying to get this type of word out. They laugh, they ridicule and just go on living their delusion. Anyone would have to be blind not to see this critical upheaval and change occuring. Everything this country has grown used to will soon grind to a stop. America has lived it’s own self swindle for over 30 years. The Fourth Turning/Judgement day is upon us. This fall should get really interesting.

    1st September 2010 at 7:10 pm

  8. Apollo says:

    When the so-called ‘double dip’ recession kicks in starting Q3, another click in the 4thT clock happens. The situation is such that there is nothing leadership can do about it; meaning they will just talk a lot about it. Or not even talk about it; talk something else to escape reality.

    The momentum of 4thT is overwhelming. It consists of two forces – physical+financial, and mental+cultural:
    Physical+financial – The raw numbers, their dynamics, their mathematics, control the unfolding of 4thT events. These are now happening like a aircraft without fuel flying on auto-pilot.
    Mental+cultural – This is harder to see, because it is hard for the self-delusioned minds to see its own delusion. Just take a look at G W Bush and you know instantly what I mean. Millions upon millions of people are in this state, thus creating the cultural force that ensures the mechanics of 4thT(physical+financial) will proceed unabated.

    One by one, strange and ridiculous events will happen. Such as the rally in DC over the weekend. Where a ultra-conservative talk show host Glen (Big Mouth) Beck stood up on the podium and declare himself a Messiah appointed by God to save the nation. Kinda like Jesus during the dark years of Palestine conquered and ruled by the Roman Empire. History is full of examples where a country went into decline and all kinds of ‘messiah’ would pop up to save the people. Not one was successful – but it was so much fun.

    Individuals can prepare for the 4thT upheaval. But the USA cannot. Countries go into decline because the weight of wrong doings are already too great to be reverse. When the delusional sees it, it is already too late. Interesting how simple logic still rules mass stupidity.

    Oh yes, I am holding my breadth to see the next self-declared Messiah to show up. I see no risk of choking myself.

    2nd September 2010 at 12:54 am

  9. It ain't over til it's over says:

    First time I’ve heard about a 4th turning. I’ve heard a lot about a 4th Jihad. You can leave out that factor but that factor is not going to leave us out. This so called saecular winter is going to become severely religious in the worst of ways. Heads, er, hats off, to those who forget about that reality.

    2nd September 2010 at 10:57 am

  10. Dragline says:

    I remain hopeful, but as long as the Baby Boomer crowd are in charge, we are in much danger of destroying ourselves like the Transcendentalists did when they plunged the nation into a Civil War near the beginning of that Fourth Turning. As the book notes, they were almost completely out of power by about 1868, but the aftermath left it impossible for a unified society rebuilding like what happened after the Revolution and WWII.

    Both groups were moralists who put their philosophical and religious values above survival and compromise. (See the two demonstrations of 50+ year-olds in DC last weekend for the modern incarnation.) We have about a decade before they leave power on a national scale. Until then we should not expect much in the way of solutions from government.

    But we can build locally — and cross-generationally — in our communities and in cyberspace. If you haven’t noticed, the youngest generation are mostly wonderful, civil people, who volunteer, join civic organizations like the Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts, like teamwork and are optimistic despite our predicaments. They will save us from ourselves and rebuild America — if we can give them a little time to mature.

    In the meantime, we need to beware the more opportunistic Gen-Xers (my gen). Our generation knows how to survive, make money and get things done, but its not always good for the rest of society. (The 19th century robber barons were all of this generational type.) Palin and Beck match the demagogue nomad description in the book to a T — but note they are more interested in being rich and famous than running for office and actually leading. Also note, their audience is largely Boomers. Their influence is likely to decline with that generation. We can hope that Gen-Xers who are now disgusted by politics and went into finance or became entrepeneurs or military people (think Eisenhower) will come in to leadership in the next decade. That’s who we will need to lead this country out of this mess.

    2nd September 2010 at 12:58 pm

  11. Sunny Meadow says:

    The USA was a ”beacon of hope’ when it was a WHITE Christian nation. Now, it’s a multicultural crap hole, that happens to have the world’s reserve currency, and the biggest military on earth; and that won’t be for long.

    I don’t recommend getting into groups. Remember what Jesus said? The tares will be gathered together into bundles to be BURNED. Read in Ezra and Nehimiah were the Israelites SEPARATED from the FOREIGNERS.

    The only thing that can stop the destruction of the USA is REPENTANCE.

    2nd September 2010 at 1:12 pm

  12. Bev says:

    If memory serves me correctly, then we have already returned control of our money to ourselves six times in the past under our most admired Presidents: Washington, Jackson, Lincoln, Garfield, Kennedy…I am missing one President…I’ll have to double check. The strongest reason for the Revolutionary war was to control our own currency.

    Again, see the film “The Secret of Oz” and know that people are trying to do this again for the benefit of our people.

    Another good site is http://www.csper.org/ :

    The empire’s power comes from controlling all money in the system. We may think we have freedom, but the power of the debt-based dollar that all of us, our institutions, and our governments depend upon trumps all forms of freedom. We are now entirely dependent on mega corporate institutions run by the controlling debt system. It virtually eliminates philosophy—freedom of thought—and co-opts things like spirituality, psychology, and economics.

    To facilitate renewal and avoid chaos or tyranny in the coming decline of the empire, CSPER recognizes that it is necessary to launch a new Enlightenment, recover our humanity, and break the monolithic monetary monopoly that controls everything in the United States.

    2nd September 2010 at 1:58 pm

  13. Administrator says:

    Dragline

    Excellent summary of what needs to happen. The Millenials are crucial to our survival as a country.

    2nd September 2010 at 2:01 pm

  14. mike says:

    What a bunch of baloney!

    2nd September 2010 at 3:21 pm

  15. Katriel says:

    Ecclesiates 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

    Repentence is no longer possible for the usa, she is being turned into hell, history is prophecy of the future, look to the past, to know the future…

    cyclical increases, hundredfold return, the usa will not be healed, she will be repaid double.

    2nd September 2010 at 4:24 pm

  16. JOA says:

    SSS, re: Lawrence Baker’s culprits

    The Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the CIA, etc. etc. — each of these can easily be substantiated as “shadow government”, or the puppet master. It would take very little looking, hardly any digging. Try “None Dare Call it Conspiracy” by Gary Allen, “The Invisible Government” by Dan Smoot, or for fun: “None Dare Call it Treason” by John A Stormer. And those are just some of the earlier works. Since then (60s-70s), there’s more than dozens of sources and resources. Obviously Baker thought this was pretty well-known, as anybody who has seriously looked at the issues of America’s government would have to have inevitably stumbled upon such exposure. Try looking at the Crow House website, maybe Jack McLamb’s website. If you’re daring, go to theForbiddenKnowledge website… It’s there for the taking. Most just don’t want to take.

    2nd September 2010 at 4:42 pm

  17. Ekim says:

    Citizens cannot prepare to be self sufficient in their old age when the bank inflates away 50% of the value of their pensions/savings every 10 years. If the printing press is not tamed, the future will be a disaster for the country.

    2nd September 2010 at 6:24 pm

  18. R.C. Taylor says:

    .REAL TRUE FREEDOM
    It really amazes me how blind and brain dead We The People really are and still believe that we are a free people under our Constitutional system of government. We are educated to believe that “We The People” are the Sovereigns and our elected officials are our “public servants,” so we are told. The question arises in my mind “HOW CAN A SERVANT HAVE THE POWER TO ENACT LAWS, RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT WE SOVEREIGNS MUST OBEY??? It appears to me that if the “servant” has that kind of power then he/she must be the Sovereign and “we the people” the servants = (slaves). If there was ever an oxy-moron this is it. A “servant”never tells his/her master what he/she can or cannot do, yet our Constitution endorses this type system of government. The truth is our present system of government is nothing more then an ILLUSION of freedom and boy have we been deceived! It is time for a change and I would like to offer the following concept of what a really free system of government should be. Two (2) things need to be done.
    The Remedy:
    (1) Recognize who is the enemy of our so-called “freedoms.” The enemy is the U.S. Congress, State Legislatures, County Boards and City Councils, all “law-making” bodies that are constantly churning out all kinds of restrictions (laws) on our enumerated “freedoms” that in actuality really doesn’t exist anymore. Furthurmore these “public servants” then turn around and beg We The People to “finance” their campaign so they can get elected and vote themselves “benefits” that are much better then what they give We Sovereigns. Are you starting to have doubts about who the “real” Sovereigns are? If not you should be.
    Every time a law is enacted at any level of govt., this constitutes a restriction on our “alleged” freedoms and an invasion of our collective wealth!
    We need to make a couple of changes in our Constitution by calling for a Constitutional Convention to abolish Congress, State Legislatures, County Boards, and City Councils and institute the following short sentence in their place; “DO NO MAN OR WOMAN HARM IN THEIR PERSON OR THEIR PROPERTY.” Please take note that this one short sentence entails “personal responsibility” for all one says and does in his/her interactions with others, a long lost quality that we Americans once had and lost. This is the only principle we need to resolve any and all issues that may arise be they criminal or civil. It constitutes Sovereigns dealing with Sovereigns and NOT Sovereigns being subject to the whims of “public servants.” We as a united people have become slaves to “public servants” and “political correctness” where freedom of speech and thought is subtly controlled and We The People have bought into it lock, stock and barrel. Shame on us!
    (2) Abolish the American Legal System and in its place institute Common-Law where randomly picked citizens sit as a jury to hear civil complaints and criminal cases. The jury is the sole power. No biased judges; No costly lawyers. The jury has no more power after they render a decision in the case before them and are dismissed. All the present enumerated crimes would remain intact as a crime is still a crime. A Grand Jury would be called upon to hear appeals, They also would be randomly picked for just one appeal.
    Remember, “We The People” retain the right to change our form of govt. I sincerely believe that if We The People adopted this form of government we would be the envy of the whole world. Americans wouldn’t be burdened down with tons of dos and don’ts and we would truly be self-governed by being personally responsible to each other in all our associations and dealings without being “regulated” to death by an all powerful government. of “servants.” The phrase GOD BLESS AMERICA would once again have sincere meaning in our hearts and minds and “WE THE PEOPLE” would truly be self governed!
    I am not suggesting we abolish our beloved Constitution, but rather through a constitutional convention amend the Constitution as enumerated above and the only law is taking “personal responsibility” for everything you say and do. Thats it. Can anyone ask for

    Thank you for your time.
    R.C. Taylor
    Houston, TX.

    2nd September 2010 at 6:55 pm

  19. What? says:

    “Spirit of America” eh?

    That would be, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 17:5

    And according to the Bible, the only thing we will be “turning” into is a pile of smoldering rubble.

    The solution.

    Come out of her.

    2nd September 2010 at 7:00 pm

  20. Gemini says:

    Sunny Meadow,
    At what time was the USA a white nation? After the white man usurped the land of the red man and brought over the black man to work in his fields? When was it a christian nation? Before or after the separation of church and state?

    You are nothing but a bigot and a bible thumper.
    Don’t bother praying for me, my belief system doesn’t require it.

    2nd September 2010 at 7:53 pm

  21. Smokey says:

    JOA—-If you are going to recommend books, you’ll need to come up with something better than the liberal hack pieces you’ve listed there. Please recommend something that is not fiction.

    2nd September 2010 at 8:12 pm

  22. SSS says:

    To all the posters on this article who gave me a thumbs down (10 when I checked), fuck you and the horse you rode in on. You COWARDS didn’t have the guts to even post a line or two about your objections to what I said, which was to merely challenge Lawrence Baker’s comments about a shadow government. It was simply a challenge to Lawrence’s assertions, idiots. I smell a 9/11 Truther infiltration here.

    to JOA

    A big double fuck you. You give me some ten year reading assignment and get 6 thumbs up. How many blow jobs did have to give to get that support, jerkoff. You fucking dickwad. Back your shit up.

    2nd September 2010 at 8:20 pm

  23. LLPOH says:

    SSS – on some things you should take thumbs down as a badge of honor!

    2nd September 2010 at 8:30 pm

  24. Smokey says:

    JOA eats shit.

    2nd September 2010 at 8:46 pm

  25. SSS says:

    LLPOH

    You’re right. Sometimes I get a little thin-skinned. This was one of them.

    2nd September 2010 at 8:52 pm

  26. MESSAGE TO LUKE WARM CHRISTIANS AND NON-BELEIVERS: THE FOURTH TURNING – SKIES DARKENING « thefloridianguy.com says:

    […] http://theburningplatform.com/blog/2010/08/31/the-fourth-turning-skies-darkening/ This entry was posted on Friday, September 3rd, 2010 at 1:51 am and is filed under End Times Prophecy. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. […]

    2nd September 2010 at 9:51 pm

  27. printmemoney says:

    Message to anyone that thinks religion will save u

    It will make u feel better as the collapse occurs

    Other than that, you r negligent not to prepare

    3rd September 2010 at 3:23 am

  28. Jay says:

    It is all in the Book, God is going to finish this up. And it really doesn’t matter what anybody believes, He made it and He can do only what is right.

    3rd September 2010 at 10:27 am

  29. Bev says:

    When people demand public state banks, they can expect results like North Dakota’s State Bank has given North Dakota:

    North Dakota is the only state with a budget surplus.
    North Dakota is the only state adding more jobs.

    Money is wealth; it should not be debt.

    Getting rid of the debt based money (by creating public state banks) is a great idea as it can never be paid back anyway. Even if you tried to pay back every bit, taking 100% of all money back out of society to pay back the banks, money has not been created to pay the interest, nor the quadrillion dollars of derivatives by addicted speculators who look to be collapsing things on purpose to make everyone desperate enough to okay an IMF one global currency/government thing which the money behind the apocalypters is also driving toward.

    Instead of a collapse, how much easier to create a public state bank that does not send money to wall street to be speculated away. Ask you politicians why they want a collapse rather than a public bank like North Dakota’s.

    3rd September 2010 at 11:31 am

  30. The Entropy Report › Friday, September 3, 2010 says:

    […] THE FOURTH TURNING – SKIES DARKENING  […]

    3rd September 2010 at 2:45 pm

  31. Christian gains says:

    To Smoky & SSS:

    FIRSTLY, SSS, you requested, SPECIFICALLY “your own words”, so here goes:

    I’ll attempt to keep this as boiled down to simplicity as possible.

    Mayer Amchel [latter added “Red Shield” {Rothchild} as his last name], sired 5 children, and trained them in the Principals of (what is commonly known today as “HIGH FINANCE” — or the economic principals of Nation State Economics).

    The boys established “Merchant Banks” in Austria, England, France, Italy, and Germany, {I believe, but could be wrong on Germany}. Nathan Rothchild ultimately “cornered”, and literally bought the majority shares in the Bank of England, immediately following the Battle of Waterloo, by appearing to SELL his British stocks, (thus indicating that Wellington had lost), thereby initiating a massive ‘sell off’ of said Stocks. Then, quietly & serupticiously bought the Stocks back at bargain counter prices.

    The PRINCIPAL method that father Amchel developed in his banking methodology was to LOAN sums to Nation states, (he began with the Prince of Austria), and, instead of “calling in” the debt when it came “due”, he’d simply ask a favor of the Monarch…one that, (unbeknownst to the King), would financially benefit Amchel. The next “coup” that the Rothchild’s were able to perpetrate, was instigating & agitating [through their agents], the divisions between the northern & southern States of America. (The North was predominately turning industrial, while the South was still majorly Agricultural. Also, the Cultures of the two regions were diametrically opposed). Then, the BANK OF ENGLAND offered to LOAN the Southern Confederacy vast sums, to assist their secession, unbeknownst to Lincoln. And, (equally unbeknownst to the Confederacy), the BANK OF FRANCE offered Lincoln a similar loan package.

    If you’re willing to do the work, you can VERY quickly confirm that only ONE Family Business profited hamsomely from BOTH Bank Loans to those to Nations.

    And, the REST of the story is summed up by this Proverb: “The borrower is servant to the lender”, {Proverbs 22:7) — You HAVE heard of “salary slaves”, have you not?

    As for the slur on the “liberal hack pieces”, you sir, SERIOUSLY err.

    Gary Allen was as Conservative as one gets, as was senator Stormer. NONE of the Authors, (I’ve read & STUDIED, — and own — each of the Books suggested), Lawrence refers you to, were “LIBERAL HACKS”, they were accomplished Historians, or, KNOWLEDGEABLE Politicians, or HIGHLY CREDITABLE INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS. And you are….? hmmm…

    Be assured that it is usually, (amongst intelligent folk), preferable to know of what one speaks, B4 speaking, and, as well, such crude, demeaning slurs, (revealing the utter ignorance of the speaker), simply assure those reading or listening of the low I.Q. of those uttering such vain babal.

    You’ve BOTH further confirmed my conviction that “IGNORANCE is the Mother of stupidity, and Pride IS it’s Father”.

    The author of this Article is to be commended for BOTH his clarity of thought, as well as his clear demonstration of intelligence, and diligence of study. Not to mention his DEEP regard for his fellow man. And, the Authors of the Book are CLEARLY deeply profound thinkers and Historians.

    May God help us ALL to take heed & DO WHAT WE CAN, in the time we have left.

    As for Smokey & your derisive and demeaning slurs, I suggest you BOTH grow up & learn how to carry on a mature, & intelligent exchange of opinions, thoughts, and facts, without resorting to simplistic childish name calling and slanderous, gutter mouthed attacks. You’re BOTH revealing the rather unsavory mind sets you harbor & your intellectual bankruptcy.

    3rd September 2010 at 4:08 pm

  32. Anonymous says:

    undefined

    3rd September 2010 at 11:21 pm

  33. sabre says:

    self-sacrifice?

    Really? That’s how we are to get on the road to recovery? We all just self – sacrificed our country for the betterment of a select few entities that gambled away our government’s future. Self -sacrifice is the bane of society.

    Let me know when someone wants to work for my betterment. I’ll tell him where he can sign up.

    4th September 2010 at 2:49 pm

  34. Smokey says:

    JOA Aka Christian gains—–You are one sick puppy. Psychotic. A space cadet. You say “……go to the Forbidden Knowledge website. It’s there for the taking. Most just don’t want to take.” Less than three minutes on that site PROVES you are duped. Headlines on the home page of that gem include (1) “The New World Order” (2) “Lucerific power structure and Government center Washington DC” (3) “Master numbers encoded within your DNA” (4) ” Freemasonry’s connection to the creation of Mankind and its purpose”. — And the FUCKING COUP de GRACE, the biggest headline on the home page, in RED ink, “Your government is poised to inject you with a tracking chip manufactured by Applied Digital Solutions called ‘Veri Chip’. You ADVOCATE this sick shit? Seriously, get help before someone commits you.

    4th September 2010 at 4:20 pm

  35. Gemini says:

    Let me help you with that armor before SSS gets here.

    If you can’t give any evidence of a global shadow government that comes from HIS life time, SSS is going to slay you. I know this theory well. Yes, that story is true, but a 150 year old story does not a 2010 conspiracy make. you never mentioned the CFA, CIA, NATO or anything else.

    Good luck.

    4th September 2010 at 5:24 pm

  36. Smokey says:

    Shit, Gemini, I haven’t left anything for SSS TO slay. My last two posts BURIED your suck-buddy.

    4th September 2010 at 6:24 pm

  37. DP says:

    JOA:

    Smokey is Quinn’s aka.

    He pulled the same BS on his previous blog site till he was called on it and dumped by his webmaster, Jason Rines.

    Let’s work to shut down this piece of shit blog and all it’s Nascist/Racist/Nazi crap/disinformation.

    4th September 2010 at 7:26 pm

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