LLPOH’s SHORT Stories # 1

In recent days, there have been several discussions recently on this site regarding unions and their activities. I have had a bit of experience in dealing with unions over the years – and none of it has been positive. Following is one of my experiences with unions.

In 1988 I joined a major international company, and was brought in, along with several other senior managers, to turn around a failing major consumer goods facility located in a small, rural town of 10,000 in the Midwest. The facility employed approximately 2000 people, and was heavily unionized.

The history of the facility was this: the original company was established approximately 60 years prior. A range of products – all heavy metal goods – were manufactured over the years. The original company was privately owned. The founder passed the company to his only son in the 1950’s. The son married, and the couple was childless. The company was by far the major employer, and the couple treated the employees as though they were family, and never attempted to maximize profit. The employees took advantage of this, and made substantial demands, always granted, during each contract negotiation.

The couple of course aged, and there were no heirs. In the early 1980’s the man died, and the wife sold the business to the multinational, as she wanted to ensure its continuation, for the welfare of “her family”.

At this point, the company employed approximately 2,000 people. The average wage for, primarily, unskilled assemblers was a bit more than $20 per hour. The company was by far the biggest employer in the area – the town was almost 100% reliant on the company. House and property prices were near the highest in the state. Schools were well funded. There were signs of prosperity everywhere – cinemas, restaurants, beauty parlors, etc. flourished.

Unfortunately, the facility was not making a profit – it had begun to lose money owing to overseas competition and the steadily rising costs associated with granting the employees their every demand. The new owner had bought the company not for its profits but for its customer base. The new management team was brought in to make it profitable, or to close it down. The men in black hats arrived.

Within several weeks we had come up with the solution. The parent company was prepared to let the facility continue, but it had to generate an appropriate profit. Wages needed to drop to a more appropriate level of $15 per hour, and serious investment in current technology needed to be done to drop the workforce substantially – to approximately 1000 employees. The savings looked for were in the vicinity of $50,000,000 per year. Otherwise, the facility would be closed, and a new facility would be opened in North Carolina, with wages of $10 per hour, and where generous subsidies from state and local governments existed. It was expected that the savings from moving to North Carolina would be approximately $65,000,000 per year. The parent company was prepared to keep the Midwest facility open and wear the $15,000,000 difference – a testament to its goodwill, in my opinion.

We had a contract with the union that was expiring inside of a year. We called the union representatives together, and laid this out for them – exactly as above. We told them it was a non-negotiable situation, and the company had to start making a profit. They laughed at us and walked out. A few weeks later, we got together with them again. By this time they had put together their list of demands – a six percent a year increase over current wages, better benefits, etc. Again we told them what was required – $15 per hour, etc. Again they laughed at us and walked out. They said it was nothing more than a bargaining ploy.

We then organized an off site meeting with the entire workforce. We put together and presented the facts as laid out above – serious restructuring of wages, work rules, and reductions in workforce numbers would be required, or the plant would be shut and production moved to N.C. We gave them 2 weeks to consider, and then met again offsite for their vote. The union representatives -local/state/national – told them that it was a negotiating ploy, that the factory would never be shut, and that they must never take a backward step. All 2000 employees voted to reject the terms.

We immediately implemented the plan to move to North Carolina. We signed contracts and the plant began to be built. We had no further conversations with the union or the employees. Six months later, a few months before the contract was to expire, the union showed up to negotiate the new contract, and had their same demands.
We told them that the plant was to be closed, per our previous meeting, and that we would continue under the current terms until that time. They laughed at us once more, and said it was a bargaining ploy. They did, however, decide to check out whether the plant was actually being built, and sent a team down to N.C. to inspect and take film. What they found was that the entire shell of the facility was up, and some equipment was actually moved in. This of course panicked them.

The came back the next week to meet with us, and had dropped their demands, and wanted us to sign up to an extension of the current contract. We told them the plant was being closed. Word got out to the membership that the factory was indeed being closed, and the place exploded in a major crisis. The next week they came back again, under enormous pressure from the membership, offering to accept our original terms of $15 per hour, etc. We told them so sorry, the plant is being closed – it is too late.

About 12 months later we fired the first 500 employees. We fired another 500 two months after that, another 500 two months after that, and the final 500 two months after that. We padlocked the gate and walked away.

I revisited the town several years later. Property prices had plummeted. The town center resembled a slum. The entire town had gone to rack and ruin. The decision not to renegotiate terms destroyed the entire town and its surrounds.

These are the lessons I learned from this experience:
1) Unions do not care about the health of the company.
2) Unions do not care about their local membership. Unions believe they must hold the line at every facility less it flow through to their national organization.
3) Unions believe that the jobs lost at one facility will ultimately be picked up at another, as the total work will stay the same. This has proven to be absolutely false.
4) Management is prepared to give away almost anything in order to keep the peace. When it comes unstuck, it will be someone else’s problem.
5) Unions are prepared to lie to the local members in support of their national and state goals.
6) Members will listen and believe almost anything the union says.

Does this sound familiar? These kinds of mistakes are being made everywhere by our “leaders”. People everywhere are being mislead about the consequences of decisions being made. People believe what they are told, and the more outrageous the lie, the more likely they seem to believe it. People hang on to failed causes at their long-term detriment. It is happening today, everywhere.

I was the guy in the black hat. I closed the facility, but the one in North Carolina is thriving. Where are the guys in the black hats that we so desperately need right now to address the critical issues facing the country? Who is going to tell the people the truth before it is too late? Would they even listen if told? I do not see it happening. The scenario above will play itself out on a large scale throughout the country. It will be a painful experience.

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47 Comments
Smokey
Smokey
February 20, 2011 6:01 pm

One of your best pieces on this forum, LLPOH.

Fascinating read. So consistent with much other anecdotal information I have heard through the years regarding unions.

Just look at Detroit.

Unions eat shit.

llpoh
llpoh
February 20, 2011 6:10 pm

Thanks Smokey. When dealing with public sector unions, I expect the problems increase by a factor of ten. No one is held accountable. Public service managers are not responsible for cost, they are responsible for expenditure. That is a critical point.

DavosSherman
DavosSherman
February 20, 2011 6:14 pm

Super read. I was in management and had to deal with unions, then in the airline I flew for a non-union carrier and a union carrier.

I despise unions, but in the airlines they are an evil necessity – having said that they do NOT work. I was the vice chair of our union and I was amazed at how you can put a dozen really smart people in a room, all who want to do good and come out with a turd.

On the flip side, we got briefed by the 3 airline financial analysts of the union and it was clear after 9/11 that without wage concessions the airline was toast, our pay concessions and work concessions stunk but they passed at 86%, the company made it.

MuckAbout
MuckAbout
February 20, 2011 6:25 pm

Great post LLPOH… I was a project manager for a unionized (IBEW) contract working for the Air Force for a number of years. Whenever we negotiated a contract, it was understood that our contract was a cost plus fee deal and any costs associated with labor were just passed through to the Air Force (i.e. Feds – who, of course, has unlimited money).

The results was the facilities mechanic man and senior technicians were paid more on an hourly basis than my Operations and Maintenance Managers. It was a totally insane system with no accountability, seniority determined everything and it was even difficult to enforce work rules to actually run the project and fulfill our obligations under our contract with the Air Force.

I had all I could take after three years and moved on. I had the opportunity to take management positions two other times with unionized shops and declined both.

I hope all unions in contempt.

howard in nyc
howard in nyc
February 20, 2011 6:25 pm

llpoh–great post, thanks. i have a question, but please, do not interpret me to be defending or alibiing the union in any way shape or form.

but 50% layoffs and a 25% wage cut is a tough pill to swallow. human nature to balk at that. do you think the workforce would have accepted that reality, if they were not unionized?

tia.

MuckAbout
MuckAbout
February 20, 2011 6:26 pm

That is “I hold” all unions in contempt.

ragman
ragman
February 20, 2011 6:32 pm

Davos: fuck the airlines and fuck ALPA. I was a member for 27yrs and ended up with nothing when I retired. The fuel costs will end up killing them…good riddance!

Administrator
Administrator
Admin
February 20, 2011 6:37 pm

llpoh

I’m sure RE will be dopping by to give you an atta boy.

I think unions were probably necessary at one time. The robber barons had too much power at one time and took advantage of their workers. It seems to me that the bigger any organization gets, the less it serves the purpose of its members. Those at the top of large organizations tend to love the power and wealth of being at the top.

Unions are now about power, not about the workers.

Wall Street is now about wealth, not about helping grow America by providing capital for investments.

howard in nyc
howard in nyc
February 20, 2011 6:41 pm

thanks. it is also human nature to deal realistically with hard truths. it used to be american nature. i’m not so sure now. people fed lies and bs (like union rank and file, and like everyone in the usa lately) seem to loose the ability to recognize truth, even if it smaks them in the face.

Administrator
Administrator
Admin
  howard in nyc
February 20, 2011 7:04 pm

Americans want to be lied to. It confirms their normalcy bias. If they believe the lies and lie to themselves, they don’t have to confront the unbelievably difficult problems that we have.

Smokey
Smokey
February 20, 2011 7:15 pm

Problems? What problems ?

Didn’t you read my analysis of the 10 charts of doom?

Administrator
Administrator
Admin
  Smokey
February 20, 2011 8:10 pm

Smokey

I forgot. The problems are really opportunities. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

StuckInNJ
StuckInNJ
February 20, 2011 7:15 pm

Another fine post, llpoh.

Just a small inconsequential story of my own, but one that show the stupidity of unions.

Worked at northAmerican Van Lines my first year out of college as a computer programmer. I had my own little cubicle. But it faced the wall. My back was to the opening. I didn’t like that. Went in 15 minutes early one day and turned my desk 90 degrees to the right.

Just after lunchtime my supervisor tells me I have to go to Human Resources. I was handed a letter of reprimand for my actions. It seems a union worker filed some kind of “Grievance”. The HR bimbo gave me a lecture on how I should stick to doing my job, and not take work away from others. It was the electrical union worker. Now get this … I didn’t get the reprimand for actually moving the desk by myself. I got it for unplugging and re-plugging the electrical cords for my desk lamp and computer terminal. THAT was the electricians job. True unfuckingreal story.

Administrator
Administrator
Admin
  StuckInNJ
February 20, 2011 8:14 pm

Stuck

I’m not allowed to bring a nail and a hammer to hang a picture on the wall in my office. A union worker has to hang any pictures. I’ve got 5 or 6 pictures on my wall. None were hung by a union worker. I feel really bad about that.

SSS
SSS
February 20, 2011 7:37 pm

LLPOH

Great article. I don’t have any experience with unions, so I welcome more of these stories.

I do remember, while living in Illinois in the late 70s and early 80s, of the constant battles that Caterpillar has with the UAW. I checked, and it’s still going on. In addition to excellent pension and health benefits for UAW hourly wage retirees of Caterpillar, here’s what the wage scale looks like today.

[img]http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Caterpillar,_Inc./Hourly_Rate/by_Job[/img]

SSS
SSS
February 20, 2011 7:38 pm

Shit. Didn’t post. Oh well, it’s about $19-20 an hour.

Dave
Dave
February 20, 2011 7:39 pm

As a former teacher, I was suspended for three days without pay for refusing to join the union. After that year I was required to put my dues in escrow every year. But those dumb fucks let me be the only name on the account, and when I left, I took all the money. Fuck them!

Reverse Engineer
Reverse Engineer
February 20, 2011 7:47 pm

sadly for fight fans here on tbp, re will not be making a “not attaboy” rebuttal in this thread. iit has been my experience to date that nothing productive results when either llpoh or myself challenge each other.in one of the threads we originate. it just devolves into a napalm contest.

this was a well constructed argument by llpoh based on personal experience, for which he has received several attaboys from like minded individual. I will likely addrress the underlying theory in a future daily rant.

I do.not.see napalm contests as a positive for tbp, and myself and llpoh in the same thread is like matter and antimatter occupying the same space at the same time. mad results.

I will post some mighty long shit later though in other threads.

re

DavosSherman
DavosSherman
February 20, 2011 7:54 pm

Ragman: That is what I said – without saying eff them. Airline mgt is SCUM and ALPA is a self serving moronic institution.

LLPOH the first union I had exposure to had mob ties, can be really rough.

Smokey
Smokey
February 20, 2011 7:54 pm

RE’s the only fucker alive who posts 3 1/2 paragraphs to say he has nothing to say.

MuckAbout
MuckAbout
February 20, 2011 7:56 pm

LLPOH: It was a debacle. It was a charade. It made me puke. So I quit.

Want to hear a real horror story. Back in my younger days (60’s), I was a System Engineer for RCA Service Company. We did most of the field work for RCA Moorsetown Plant in NJ NE of Cherry Hill and across the river from the 30 blocks of squalor..

The plant made the very best heavy ground tracking radars in the world (FPS-16, FPQ-6) that were used on every missile range and space launch range the US had.

My job was to take these marvelous machines from the factory and install them on little islands, mountain tops and middle of deserts.

The plant was unionized at most every level – technicians, facilities, engineers – you name it.

It got to the point where a design engineer, working on a breadboard electronic design could not move an oscilloscope probe himself. Oh no, he had to call a dispatch center for technicians and a technician would show up in 10 minutes to change the location of the probe.

An engineer could not move a breadboard or test chassis from one location to another. He had to call the facilities despatch and technician despatch to get two people to come help out, unhook whatever he was working on and move to where he need it. Then he had to get A NEW technician to come hook it back up in its new location.

Within 5 years, needless to say, RCA could not compete in bidding for new business and the plant started hemorrhaging money. A fellow by the name of Art Malcarney was dispatched from Corporate HQ to turn the place around.

People would stay home when they heard he was coming to town. They would RUN the other way if they saw him in the hall. He’d walk up to a fellow getting a drink at a water fountain and ask,”What project are you charging your time to?”. If the fellow said, I’m in a labor pool awaiting an assignment, Mr. Malcarney would turn to one of his (usually three) minions and say, “Fire this man effective close of business today.” and that was that.

He never bothered us because as RCA Service Company, we were always making money for them putting products into the field.

The end results was that another year went by, 3,000 Engineers were fired, 2,000 technicians and high paid help was gone and the plant then couldn’t bid on projects at all because by then the technology had moved on and what was left of the technical staff couldn’t cut it.

End result, over 7,000 well paid engineers, tech, maintenance people and admin types were fired and the plant closed. A plant that made the very best, cutting edge tracking radars in the world and the unions drove it to destruction.

In 1962 they were cutting their own throats and haven’t learned a damn thing since.

Piss on ’em.

Jmarz
Jmarz
February 20, 2011 8:14 pm

Llpoh

Great story. I can’t wait to hear more short stories about your experiences in business. It really puts things in perspective when you lay out a real personal experience you had with unions. Do you think our country will ever be able recover the manufacturing jobs we have sent to China, India, Vietnam, and other emerging countries? Why build a product here when one can go to China and make it for half the price? I feel like an entrepreneur almost has to go overseas if they want to be competitive when dealing with basic, industrial and electrical parts. I do believe our country can be competitive on a manufacturing platform if we are innovative but will we ever be able to compete on labor? I have some business ideas but as I research I realize it is wiser to import the product then make it here. I’m just curious on your thoughts on our future for manufacturing since you have experience with multinationals as well as with your own company.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
February 20, 2011 8:32 pm

Yeh, well the union I once worked for financed the company that bought out the company I worked for.

All those silly union rules were because they, both the union and the company, wanted it that way. It was a duplicitous game and Im sure that this isnt, by far, the only bed-sharing company/union which is doing this.

Anonymous
Anonymous
February 20, 2011 10:26 pm

llpoh-capitalism demands they gewt paid what they are worth in the open market.
Of what capitalism do you speak? Corporate crony capitalism or free market capitalism which BTW the likes of which we’ve never seen.
Corporate America has never spent one dime on market reform, preferring instead to line the pockets of their puppet congressmen to push legislation they wrote than cripples the ability of small business to operate.
I’ll agree that Union being hijacked by greedy extortionists are partly the blame for corporations dumping the American worker, but still their will be a price to pay for all…and I do mean all.
No one getz out unscathed. Out of the pan and into the fire.

llpoh
llpoh
February 20, 2011 10:34 pm

Free market capitalism. Thee are twisted degenerate offshoots, of course – twisted by big business, banks, politicians, and unions. I believe, ultimately, that it will revert to free market capitalism, as the other models ultimately will fail.

llpoh
llpoh
February 20, 2011 10:34 pm

should read “there are ….” above.

SSS
SSS
February 20, 2011 11:59 pm

Admin said to Stucky,

“I’m not allowed to bring a nail and a hammer to hang a picture on the wall in my office. A union worker has to hang any pictures. I’ve got 5 or 6 pictures on my wall. None were hung by a union worker. I feel really bad about that.”

Fucking scab. John L. Lewis would have dealt harshly with you.

(And for you linguistic perfectionists, yeah, I know that scab refers to “striker crossing a barrier.” Admin is not a scab, per se. He’s a pain in the ass who has ruined dozens of my naps.)

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
February 21, 2011 12:09 am

Nice piece, LLPOH. I wish I had a union horror story to add.

I hold with the Admin’s point of view, that they, at one time, served a purpose, but have grown into something monstrous. I have always thought that unions were useful in dealing with deplorable working conditions, safety and that sort of thing.

llpoh
llpoh
February 21, 2011 12:31 am

Punk – just give it time. You will be minding your own business one day and it will happen. It is rare (tho not unheard of) for deplorable conditions to exist these days. Various regulatory agencies have largely taken over the policing of working conditions. Unions are now all about power, wages, job security and benefits, with no concern whatsoever for the viability or ongoing health of the employer.

eugend66
eugend66
February 21, 2011 2:05 am

LLPOH, nice story and great article !

bigargon
bigargon
February 21, 2011 6:04 am

Unions are freakin’ evil. I worked two jobs when i was younger for defense contractors that were union shops. they were a nightmare to work for. If there’s work in hell it will be a union shop.

actually IIpoh my Grandfather had a term for your “men in Black Hats” , he called you folks “the Son of Bitches from out of town”.

cv51
cv51
February 21, 2011 9:01 am

LLPOH your an American hero. I was run out of a Westvaco paper mill in Virginia for cleaning a Beloit paper making machine in two hours when the union could not get it done in a ten hour scheduled shutdown. They dispised me for it even though the mechanics enjoyed not getting filthy doing their work. No one in upper level management had the balls to tell them to go fuck themselves.

TeresaE
TeresaE
February 21, 2011 12:23 pm

I’ve worked for two unions outright, and one as a subcontractor.

Job #1 was retail (Food & Commercial Workers Union). I was part time, seasonal help. I made $2.85 an hour. My forced union dues were $18.70 a month (over 6 hours a month GROSS). We made the same exact amount as the non-union guys at our competitors. Allegedly, we had the “benefit” of health insurance (straight pay on Thanksgiving Day too!), which when I qualified would have cost $150 a month for my son and myself. Out of part-time, minimum wage. We routinely were made to clock out (no overtime EVER!) and continue working. When they offered to keep me on after Christmas, I gave notice. This job woke me up to the horrors of “union representation.” No perks, no benes (that you could realistically pay for) and in retail, you paid over three times what a UAW worker comparatively paid (1.5 hours in dues monthly).

Job #2 – I was as a payroll clerk in a unionized factory (in a small town and your experience rings very true LLPOH). I temped there for a few weeks. Paid hourly, I was paid overtime anytime I was asked to work Saturdays or stay late. Which would have been great, but I could finish my job in about four hours, five days. The third time I was told to “look busy” by my boss (the lazy bitch) on a Saturday morning, I put in notice. The girls were horrified as they were planning on offering me full time employment. I would have committed suicide if I had stayed. I can be busy, I can’t “look” busy. Five years later the foundry closed forever (the first of three major employers in the town, one barely left now).

Job #3 – I was an independent contractor holding stop smoking, weight loss and stress relief classes paid for by the UAW and a major American car company. I only got paid if I got line workers into seats. Line workers got paid to go. They got $200 programs for free. They also showed up both on the line, and in the class, drunk, stoned and whining all the damned time about everything. Including about not being paid time and half for attending the class.

Another lovely, heart-warming experience with union workers is from the time I was traveling the country either doing Gun & Knife Shows/Conventions or Health, Safety and Wellness conventions ( I had multiple income streams for most of the 90s). I was setting up for a show in Detroit. I could see my booth from the loading dock. I was made to wait for a union guy to come and pull my cart 20 yards. After waiting two hours, I did it myself. Within ten minutes I had no less than three separate union stewards screaming at me. Six hours later, I still did not have the $375 extension cord that I had prepaid for. After begging for a long, long time, I plugged my own extension cord into the outlet (all my equipment had to be pre-tested prior to the show opening). It took paying a fine and near tears to be allowed to stay in the booth that I paid over $1000 for. They were going to kick me out.

And none of these even touch on the public union horrors that seem to be the norm in my state. Teachers failing 75% of the elementary class, teachers being paid but not allowed to work, parking meter guys stealing coins, road workers drinking and sleeping more than working, the list goes on and on.

But my favorite memory isn’t my own, it is my brother’s. He was a union steward at a Tier 1 automotive supplier (since bankrupt and moved to Mexico). One of “his” guys took a two by four that had two 3 inch nails sticking out of it and hit another guy (rumored to be sleeping with guy A’s wife) in the head in the break room. My brother had to fight to keep Guy A’s job, even as Guy B lay in the hospital in critical condition.

Yes, at one point unions may have had a place in our society. But, that point is long gone and not much except corruption, bullying and theft is left. Sadly, most under-educated unionists think this is a good thing.

JIMSKI
JIMSKI
February 21, 2011 1:03 pm

OK my union story

My dad was a proud union local 12 millwright, worked for Dana corp in Toledo for 32 years before retirement. He knew my stance on Unions and always went out of his way to needle me about it and in some cases we would get into shouting matches. Sometimes he would not listen to reason at all. One day while visiting he had on a local 12 UAW shirt that had on it UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE NOW! on the front. We rehashed to old argument but this time he went ballistic and stormed out of the house with his dog to go for a walk. I asked my Mom what his problem was. She told me.

Mom took me upstairs and showed me a box full of stuff from my childhood. The box was stuff my dad had kept and it dealt with my health issues. I was born with a genetic health defect called a VSD ( google it ) Back in 1964 it caused “Blue babies ” and normally led to death. In 1970 the Children’s Hospital of Pittsburg started doing surgery to repair the holes in the lower chambers of the heart using a bypass machine. I was among the first 100 kids to get this done.

What my Mom wanted me to see was the union Journals from those days. Pictures of my dad and a little skinny kid at this fund raiser or that bowling event. The counted the hours of vacation time that we donated to my dad so he could stay with me in Pittsburg for 3 months and get me to any medical appointment needed. A story on how the union threatened a walkout and 5 other union shops including both Jeep plants and Both GM plants if they did not raise the limit on yearly health benefit this contract so I could get this ” experimental ” surgery.

So there is my story. Unions. Good and bad

llpoh
llpoh
February 21, 2011 3:16 pm

Cv51 – I have seen this many many times. It is a travesty.

Teresa/Jimski – nice stories. Amazing the experience that is out there. Sometimes I fall into the trap where I think I am all alone in having these experiences. Jimski, I am glad you told some of the good. It is there on occassion and is what unions were originally meant for. Too bad they have gotten off track.

plato_plubius
plato_plubius
February 21, 2011 3:25 pm

@IIPOH

you said, ” It sucks to have to take a backward step.”

There is taking a backward step and then there is tripping as you step backward off a cliff. Wasn’t there one person on the Union negotiating team that said, “Hey, wait a second guys, without this company this town will become a ghost town, maybe we should explain this to our union members?”

BTW, I enjoyed the read. I look forward to more of your stories. I like the idea of “telling stories”! Sometimes nothing is a better explanation of a certain topic than personal experience.

llpoh
llpoh
February 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Thanks Plato – unfortunately the sheeple did what the union said to do until it was too late. I think the union reps probably knew it was real but it didn’t suit their national goals so they hung the poor bastards out to dry. They believe giving way at one shop will flow thru to the others. That it kills a thriving town is neither here nor there for them.

Brad
Brad
July 23, 2015 10:17 pm

This is the problem with the global economy. There may be some advantages to globalization, but it marginalizes the domestic employee/workforce. The key is to adapt and change before the changes have to be made. Make higher quality goods that last longer and are worth the money. Go direct to the consumer. I’m thinking of one company that did that. They are now #1 in their industry. They retooled with mostly made in USA. There products cost more, but are well worth it. One of the best things to happen to the US is the increase in demand in China internally. Rather than crisis in Mexico, the best thing that could happen to the US is that Mexico demanded US goods. I am convinced that those $20/hr jobs could be $40/hr jobs with the right leadership. Leadership isn’t something that you always import. Read “Built to Last” and “Good to Great” by Jim Collins.

BEA LEVER
BEA LEVER
July 23, 2015 11:03 pm

Llpoh- I’ve never had to deal with unions so I don’t have a story but I enjoyed the one’s posted in this thread. Looks like you brought in some new posters , nice.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
July 24, 2015 1:05 am

Bea, when you see a lot of old names or new names, check the date, Punk left and came back and left again over a year ago, girlfriend issues, he said.