WHY DIDN’T ASIANS VOTE FOR ROMNEY?

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Posted on 10th November 2012 by Administrator in Economy |Politics |Social Issues

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Asians have the highest household income, highest education levels and the highest married family rate in America. They should have been a lock for the Republicans. Why did they vote overwhelmingly for Obama?

In the Aftermath of ‘12

By: Neil Howe

On November 7, Americans were just beginning to assess the magnitude and meaning of President Obama’s ’12 victory when the Dow dropped over 300 points, its largest daily plunge of the year. The next day, November 8, it plunged again. It’s almost as if history doesn’t want to give us time to contemplate what happened. But now, at the risk ignoring the rush of events, let’s take a moment to put some closure on the election season.

Overall, as my readers know, the ‘12 results were pretty much what I anticipated.

I said the election would be a lot closer than in ‘08, but that Obama would win. The margin would be narrow, but the outcome would not be an all-night cliffhanger. That turned out to be about right. In ’08, Obama won by 7.3 percent of the popular vote, just about the median margin for all elections in U.S. history. (It was just shy of FDR’s margin over Thomas Dewey in 1944.)  In ’12, Obama won by only 2.3 percent of the popular vote, which is the fifth smallest since 1900. (It was just under George W. Bush’s 2.5 percent margin against John Kerry, an election that was also considered a squeaker.)

I said there would be a 15-to-25 percentage point gap between under-30 young vote for Obama and the 65+ senior vote for Obama. In ’08, the gap was 21 percent; and in ’12, a preliminary survey by Pew projected it would be 20 percent. In fact, according to exit polls, the ‘12 gap between young and old was 16 points. So age polarization did moderate slightly. From ’08 to ’12, all age groups voted about 3 percent more for Romney. But Millennials tipped somewhat more steeply to Romney (about 5 percent) and the Silent a bit less. Let me go back to the postwar history of the presidential “generation gap” and update the Pew chart here. My edits in red show the actual ’12 exit poll results.

Why the moderation—or shrinkage—of the Obama youth margin from ‘08? Pre-election surveys identifying this youth shift away from Obama found that it was generated mostly by young whites (especially non-college young whites who have been hit hardest by the post-2008 economy) and only to a lesser extent by young minorities. The CIRCLE crosstabs on the exit poll, shown below, confirm that this is indeed what happened. Note that this time, unlike in ’08, the majority of young whites (51 percent) voted for the GOP.

This should not be a surprise. Unlike McCain, who struck many Millennials in ’08 as simply “too old,” Romney came across as more youthful and did not present the same obvious age contrast with Obama. Also, as I have mentioned in previous posts, Millennials are attracted to Romney’s cool, analytical, consensus-seeking persona—just as they have been attracted to many of these same qualities in Obama. The huge positive shift to Romney among under-50 whites after the first debate was largely attributed to the popular discovery that Romney was not an eccentric hothead like McCain or committed culture warrior like Rick Perry. This discovery brought Romney back into the race and hugely complicated Team Obama’s campaign strategy. Ultimately, however, it was not enough to put Romney over the top.

Although I’ve reported on several surveys pointing to declining youth enthusiasm for the election, I’ve also insisted that the Millennial Generation is destined to be a civic force to be reckoned with. My entire generational model points in that direction. True to my model, Millennials pulled through—surprising many who had predicted they would stay home. In fact, according to the latest CIRCLE estimates, the ‘12 youth voter participation rate (at least 49 percent, the count is not over yet) was nearly as strong as it was in ’08 (52 percent). This rate is already higher than ’04 (48 percent) and much higher than in the last election in which Gen-Xers totally filled the under-30 age bracket (1996: 37 percent).

In ’12 as in ’08, the youth vote determined the outcome—meaning that if the under-30 vote had simply split 50-50, McCain and Romney would have won. This cannot be said of any election earlier than 2008, going all the way back to the 1930s. The youth vote likewise determined the outcome of all the major battleground states that went this time to Obama: Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. Many who expected a GOP victory clearly hoped that a lot fewer youth voters would show up at the polls this year. This did not happen. Or, if it did happen to some degree, declining excitement probably kept home precisely those young voter categories (noncollege white males) who would have been least likely to vote for Obama. Either way, no advantage for Team Romney.

More generally, the ’12 results showed that the Democrats were mostly right, and the Republicans mostly wrong, about the composition of the turnout. The GOP-ridiculed “D+6” model turned out to be dead on. Also, futures markets like Intrade once again demonstrated their uncanny ability to hone in on the most likely outcome, even when real-time voter surveys were jumping all around. Conservatives who normally praise the virtues of markets should have known this all along.

Let me turn to two further perspectives on the results—income and ethnicity. Each sheds some interesting light on where Romney went wrong and why he fell short.

First, income. As discussed in a previous post, a major Pew survey recently revealed that the significant overall voter shift away from Democratic (and toward Republican) party identification over the last four years has been generated entirely by lower- and middle-income voters. Reason: They have been hardest hit by the economy. Affluent voters, by contrast, actually lean more to Obama and the Democrats in 2012 than in 2008. For Romney to win, it was absolutely essential for him to exploit this opening and harness this disaffection. He had to persuade these voters that the Obama economy had failed them and had stripped them of their security, dignity, and independence. And he had to make his biggest gains (relative to ’08) among lower income brackets.

In this effort he failed. The GOP preference by income bracket in ’12 was even steeper (slightly) than in ’08. Among > $100K voters, Romney won 54 percent; among < $50K voters, he won 38 percent. Compared to McCain in ’08, Romney did better over $100K and worse under $50K. To be sure, Romney faced some unique challenges in appealing to lower-income America—starting with his image as a very wealthy Wall Street wheeler-dealer. But these were surmountable. (Obama too is regularly criticized as an elitist Ivy League legal theorist, yet over time he has learned to handle the issue deftly.) What killed Romney was not the image, but rather the substance he regularly delivered that perfectly matched the image. Notorious example: the surreptitiously taped “47 percent” monologue, which was exactly the wrong message and which remained attached to Romney until the end of the campaign. The remark did untold damage. At long last, Jimmy Carter’s humiliating 1980 loss to the GOP was avenged by his grandson!

Second, ethnicity. And here I’m not sure I have the answers. Romney was the decisive favorite of all white Americans (59 percent).  He was even the decisive favorite of all white American women (56 percent). Yet Romney was also distinctly unpopular among nonwhites: He got the vote of only 27 percent of Hispanics, 26 percent of Asians, and 6 percent of African-Americans. Despite his better overall showing compared to McCain in ‘08, Romney actually lost 4 points among Hispanics and (incredibly) 11 points among Asians.

What’s going on here? Of course, everyone points to John McCain’s and George W. Bush’s conciliatory stance on immigration reform as one reason they didn’t suffer as badly at the hands of minority voters. Maybe. But I don’t think that’s a complete explanation. Romney and Obama actually agree on most of the basics of immigration reform—and though minority immigrants widely approve of Obama’s Dream Act and selective enforcement policy, they also know about his relentless deportation agenda. (Obama has deported more immigrants than any other President.)

I think something deeper, more cultural is at work. An 11 percent decline among Asians? That’s a catastrophe for the GOP. Asians are not known to obsess over immigration reform. They exceed whites in median household income. They are socially conservative, aspire to own property, and admire successful business leaders. In recent elections, I haven’t found one in which they didn’t give the GOP at least 40 percent of their vote.  In 1996, when Dole lost badly to Clinton, Asians actually preferred Dole to Clinton, 48 to 43 percent. So what happened in 2012?

Perhaps this is where Romney’s Mormonism ultimately hurt him—not, as once expected, among white evangelicals (who ended up ignoring theology and voting for him anyway), but among nonwhite minorities (who could not look past the long LDS heritage as a white-only church). Again, I am simply suggesting possibilities. I welcome your suggestions.

We can make two fairly certain predictions for how Romney’s defeat is going to play out for the future of the GOP and for the Republican candidates likely to be running in 2016. One prediction is generational. Romney is likely to be the last Boomer to run as the GOP Presidential candidate. After all, by nearly everyone’s post-mortem consensus, he was the ablest Boomer contender in ’12 and still he lost. In 2016, by contrast, a huge new influx of first-wave Gen-Xers will be flooding onto the GOP primary stage. They are smart, charismatic, and (mostly) have plenty of hands-on executive experience. I’m talking about Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, Bobby Jindal, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and Ted Cruz. And maybe we can add on late-wave Boomers (both born in 1959) Susana Martinez and Scott Brown.

To be sure, not all the these will run for the White House in ’16. And, of those who do, many have sharp edges and as-yet unvetted secrets that could prevent them from going all the way to nomination. But it is an impressive field, and the Democrats have nothing like it in the bull pen.

In fact, it’s easy to imagine a generational reversal in party candidates. The Democrats in 2016 could very well move back to a Boomer candidate (Hillary, we know you’ve been waiting!), who might encounter little serious competition from Xers. Meanwhile, the Republicans are clearly going to put an Xer at the top of their ticket. Moreover—and this is my second prediction—this Xer is very likely to be nonwhite or Hispanic. (Of the contenders listed above, three are Hispanic and two are Indian.) Given Romney’s exit polls, many GOP leaders will regard the elevation of a minority standard bearer for their party as not just a nice-thing-to-do, but as a must-thing-to-do.

84 Comments
  1. Thunderbird says:

    I guess the establishment republicans are really hated.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 3:34 pm

  2. Eddie says:

    I’m guessing that Asians look on LDS and their widespread proselytizing as having wreaked damage and destruction against Asian religions and cultural traditions.

    How do you feel when Jevohah’s Witnesses knock on your door? Yeah. Oh, no, not another one!

    Taoism is eight thousand years old, dating back to Lao-tzu.

    If you’re an Asian, when some young, dumb, white kid knocks on your door touting his 150 year old sketchy, hard to swallow Christian narrative, and tries to covert you, how do you react? Especially if you already know that his religious community is overwhelmingly white and that their ideology is rife with racist overtones?

    O don’t think Romney’s Mormonism hurt him so much with the young…but with the Asian vote, perhaps it did.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 3:40 pm

  3. ssgconway says:

    The higher-income folks that I know voted for Obama, generally speaking. Asians are more likely to be secular in their orientation, or at least not interested in ‘social issues’ as they are framed by Christian conservatives. High-income secular voters, unless they’re business owners suffering from a negative tax and regulatory environment, favored Obama. That Asians (in professional occupations especially) should favor the President should therefore come as no surprise; it’s exactly what voters in Mitt Romney’s well-to-do home county (Oakland County, Michigan) did – regardless of race.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 3:54 pm

  4. flash says:

    Eddie- touting his 150 year old sketchy, hard to swallow Christian narrative,
    For chrissakes, stop confusing the 150 cult of Mormonism for the 2000+ year old Christian religion They are apples and oranges.

    Hey look me I’m a wood butchering dentist…come on in folks and get that two by four extracted from your jaw bone…same thing Eddie.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    10th November 2012 at 4:11 pm

  5. Colma Rising says:

    Really fucking simple:

    They aren’t fucking stupid.

    They don’t vocally stand out, and they don’t rock the boat. They are doing just fine and aren’t feeling the calculus of the increasing rate of demographic change to boot.

    I think it’s safe to say that they are correct in their instinct that Mittens comes off as a douche bag and a vote on that instinct is not really too hard to fathom.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 5:06 pm

  6. Kill Bill says:

    Tangent:
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-gops-asian-american-fiasco/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 5:20 pm

  7. TC says:

    Chris Christie knows he’s too fat to ever be Prez, so he sold his soul for who knows how many $B in federal bailout money. He’s done as far as the GOP is concerned. Jindal and Rubio aren’t Natural Born Citizens (as per the founders’ definition) and although the media and the legal system obviously doesn’t give a shit, there’s enough believers on the right who will stay home rather than vote for either of those guys. IMO, it looks pretty grim for the GOP in 2016.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 8:38 pm

  8. WIP says:

    Who giives a flying FUCK? In the end we are all Greece or WWIII will take about 7 Billion people. Sorry RE. I see your 7 Million and Raise you 7 Billion.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 9:49 pm

  9. SAH says:

    @TC -Jindal was born in Louisiana. Rubio was born in Florida. I bet both of them have birth certificates to prove it too.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 10:20 pm

  10. Bruce says:

    It’s so simple. In recent years people have come to hate Republicans at a faster rate than they hate Democrats. In a smaller part because of policy ( most voters only understand policy in three to six word slogans) but mostly because the Republicans have trotted into the lime light the most objectionable, inarticulate, hostile and just plain nasty stupid people they can find.

    Even the moron vote traditionally strong in the Republican camp is shrinking and the delusional vote demographic is almost all democrat now. But the Democrats will catch up after the disasters and pain everyone is in for over the next four years comes home.

    But it matters little who’s in office. No matter what things will always be screwed up until we hunt down and rout out the Bankers.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 12:31 am

  11. Ron says:

    Almost every slightly religous person ive met wouldnt vote for Obama.All filipinos,ive met talk about how being catholics and against abortion and gay marriage,and the horrible economy.So Romney should have gotten votes.
    I still think Obama won because most people arent that bright.I saw it coming.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    10th November 2012 at 2:33 am

  12. Chicago999444 says:

    Its allegiance with the Christian Right and its freak show of nasty, stupid, and just plain crazy adherents like Rush Limbaugh, Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, and Sarah Palin, have all cost the Republican Party the support it might have had from many segments of the population.

    It’s not that people don’t understand the damage Obama’s economic and fiscal policies are creating. We surely do. But we also see that the oppositions are really only different on the surface, and that a Romney presidency would have meant another war, MORE government expenditure and more government debt, as well as further reduced personal liberties and a continued assault on women’s rights.

    It was not even a question of who would do less damage, but whose atrocious policies were more easily reversed. Many of us decided that while it will be difficult to unwind the welfare state, it would still be easier to do that than to recover from World War 3.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 8:20 am

  13. TC says:

    @SAH – being born in the US to non-citizen parents make them 14th amendment citizens, not Natural Born Citizens. see Minor vs Happersett. But like I said, you don’t have to take my word for it. Nominate either Jindahl or Rubio and then scratch your head again why GOP voter turnout was so low.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 9:14 am

  14. sangell says:

    The term “Asian” like Latino is very imprecise. Japanese Americans in California are a different bloc than Vietnamese in Westminster or Sacramento Sikhs and Hindus just as Cubans are not Mexican mestizos or Central American Indians.

    While San Francisco Chinese may vote Democratic ( what alternative do they really have in that city) they are not loopy left wingers. In fact, they share most of the same concerns of those who post here.
    They are often the targets of black street crime, are not energized by gay marriage or redistributionist
    economic policy and like Korean and Japanese Americans are not wedded to the Democratic party ideologically. It is more a practical matter in that they tend to live in big cities that are dominated by the Democrats so any ( and I’ll use the more antique but accurate term) Oriental who wants to run for public office had better be a Democrat or they cannot win. Thus their political leadership is, of necessity , Democratic.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 11:36 am

  15. indian american says:

    The republican party comes across as the the party of sanctimonious white Christians. The economic message is lost in the bible thumping. Example: very wealthy Indian American doctor will not vote for Republicans b/c of a speech at the RNC convention years ago talking about how we are a judeo-christian nation for judeo christians…blah, blah. These impressions stick. True or not, the image is one of white smugness and intolerance. And this image is only growing…

    Moreover, asian americans do not identify with the image of the tea party. Guns, slogans, racial undertones. I don’t know the stats, but tea partiers are seen as uneducated and there is nothing more important to the Asians than education!

    Finally, there is a feeling that the conservative values are hogwash. States like WV and Alabama have huge divorce rates and teenage pregnancy; the beacon of conservative values, Sara Palin, has an out of marriage grandchild. (A friend of mine once joked that he married into an Indian family b/c he wanted to experience traditional American values that he didn’t find in American homes! ) I don’t agree with this generalization, but some Asians believe that conservatives are trashy alcoholic whites who don’t practice what they preach.

    I don’t agree with all of this, but these are things I have heard over and over. I am a highly educated Indian-American from a self-made professional family. At home, we are conservative, with a 0% divorce rate, 0% alcoholism rate, and an average income well over $200k. And yes, we are all democrats.

    Moderator- if you find this post offensive, please consider the points and incorporate them into your own comments if you like. I don’t think the Mormon aspect was at all relevant. I would not describe Asians as tolerant of other religions– it is more like indifference.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5

    10th November 2012 at 1:18 pm

  16. Colma Rising says:

    Indian American:

    You should post more often. I don’t think the connect is made by a lot of people regarding your points.

    Sangell made a good point too. Often, Chinese-American politicians in SF have a very “Blue Dog” stance.

    Perceptions are key. They don’t go away.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 1:29 pm

  17. SAH says:

    @TC – Minor v Happersett was in effect overruled by the 19th Amendment, issues of citizenship were just a side tangent of this ruling – and it was in fact ruled that Minor was a natural born US citizen, but that she wasn’t eligible to vote due to her gender.

    The basis of American citizenship has always been based on English Common Law, and rests primarily on the precept of Jus Soli (right of the soil), meaning place of birth is the primary determinant of who is a natural born citizen of the US. Some other countries do not recognize Jus Soli at all, but we always have since the original adoption of the Constitution. Jus Sanguinis (right of blood) is the secondary method by which one can be a natural born citizen (born to 2 American citizens outside the jurisdiction of the US).

    I agree that the interpretation of the 14th Amendment has been too broad, and should not include children born to foreigners who are here illegally, and who should take the nationality of their parents by Jus Sanguinis. However, our accepted 14th Amendment currently even includes this class of ‘anchor babies’.

    In the case of Jindal, his parents were both legal green-card holding permanent US residents at the time of his birth, who later became naturalized citizens. Jindal himself is undoubtedly a natural born citizen of the US, even if we were to employ a stricter interpretation of the 14th Amendment. Where things might be a little sticky for Jindal is NOT in any question of his being a natural born US citizen (there is no legal question of that), but rather in his holding automatic Dual Citizenship in India by right of Jus Sanguinis under Indian law at the time of his birth. When Jindal was born, any child who’s Father was a legal citizen of India received automatic Jus Sanguinis citizenship. Current Indian law will confer Jus Sanguinis citizenship to children of Indian citizen parents only if the child is registered for it. So, it seems Jindal has dual citizenship.

    However, this STILL should pose no legal problem for Jindal if he seeks the Presidency. US Attorney General Edwards Pierrepont wrote in 1875 of a case in which a natural born US citizen was taken back to Germany at a young age and had dual German citizenship by Jus Sanguinis. Pierrepont said:

    “by virtue of German laws the son acquired German nationality. It is equally clear that the son, by birth, has American nationality, and hence he has two nationalities, one natural, the other acquired. …. Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen. There is no law of the United States under which his father or any other person can deprive him of his birthright. He can return to America at the age of 21, and in due time, if the people elect, he can become President of the United States.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 2:19 pm

  18. sangell says:

    RE: 14th Amendment and citizenship

    I won’t go into the illegal ratification of the 13th and 14th amendments merely not that they did not have sufficient majorities in either the Congress or by state ratification to be adopted but as to the issue of acquiring citizenship by being born on US territory needs to be revisited when neither parent had a legal right to be in the United States.

    It is pretty established that once cannot grant a right, title or privilege one does not legally posses. I cannot sell an item I do not own nor can I grant permission to use property I do not own unless I am acting with the authority and consent of the owner. The 14th amendment turns this upside down if two people who have no US citizenship or even permission to be in the US can bestow something they do not possess ( citizenship) on another.

    Not long ago a Canadian mother was about to give birth to 4 or 5 premature babies. There were not enough available incubators on her side of the border so she was flown to an American hospital to give birth. It was not the intention of the mother or the Canadian government that her children be American citizens and she was authorized by both governments to be in the US. If the US government asserts that illegal immigrants children become US citizens if the child is born on US soil can the US government not also claim jurisdiction over those Canadian children and, e.g. draft them for military service and place a warrant for their arrest if they do not present themselves for induction? Should work both ways in other words.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 2:55 pm

  19. Administrator says:

    Indian American

    I don’t find anything in your comment that is offensive. I think you are absolutely correct. The Republican party is led by neo-con old white bible thumpers. I hope it self destructs.

    Only one problem. The Democratic party is just as bad.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 3:14 pm

  20. John A says:

    Indian American,

    My nationality is American. I have no other and I want no other. My ancestry is Czech, English, Irish, and Native American. Thank you for your comment here. I hope to see more of your comments in the future.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 4:33 pm

  21. Drowning in Parasitism says:

    They vote overwhelmingly Democratic because they are subjected to the same (Big Brother-as-savior) collectivist clap-trap, multi-culti, anti-Whitey indoctrination at every level of the early educational process along with the rest of masses. They are spoon-fed the “beleagured minority” malarkey with Whites-as-their-sole-historical-oppressors throughout their years in our Soviet finishing schools we call “higher education” which is obsessed with “diversity, radical egalitarianism,” and “racial justice” at the expense of all else.

    As we can well see, the “model minorities” care very little about upholding the Constitution and rule of law which pinpoints the entire problem with foreigners who know little to nothing (all by design of course) of our nation’s history. Moreover, if it were advocated and put into practise “that White foreigners were to be flooded into other countries at staggering levels that would ultimately dispossess, disenfranchise and displace the majorities of those host countries, they would see it for what it is: an ACT of WAR. Only Whites are brainswahed into thinking we have some moral obligation to play host to the dregs of the world even as these ingrates replicate the same deploreable conditions of the countries from which they fled and this is being done to Western European countries ALONE by our new Masters.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4

    10th November 2012 at 5:06 pm

  22. TC says:

    @SAH – of course Minor was NBC – she was born on American soil to American citizens. What’s your point? Jindahl’s parents were not citizens at the time of his birth. It doesn’t matter that you believe he’s NBC, as there’s too many righties who believe otherwise.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 5:39 pm

  23. SAH says:

    @TC – you are wrong. You originally stated “Jindal and Rubio aren’t Natural Born Citizens (as per the founders’ definition)”. Wrong. At the time of the Founding Fathers, many people were born on US soil to British Subjects (legal foreigners). These people were considered natural born citizens by right of Jus Soli, and their status as natural born citizens has never been in question – not even before the adoption of the 14th Amendment. Jindal is absolutely a natural born citizen under the Founders’ definition, regardless of the 14th Amendment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 5:50 pm

  24. AWD says:

    “….the most current county-by-county election map, which clearly reveals what state election maps don’t, and what Obama and his Leftist cadres do NOT want you to contemplate. It shows where Leftist constituencies reside.

    The assault on Liberty we witnessed Tuesday, as was the case in 2008, was led primarily by those on urban “ObamaNation Plantations,” those who depend on what Obama calls “redistributive justice” from the rest of us in order to survive. They account for almost 60 (SIXTY) percent of Obama’s constituents, and Socialist Democrats are masters of co-opting (read: “buying”) their allegiance and getting them to the polls. The good news is that about 10 million fewer Obama voters showed up in 2012, despite his billion-dollar campaign.”

    17239

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7

    10th November 2012 at 6:51 pm

  25. Drowning in Parasitism says:

    Who’s behind swamping the Western countries with alien foreigners who for the most part will NEVER assimilate because our Federal Leviathan and Bolshevik Supreme Court have ensured it cannot happen:

    Immigration in the U.S.:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpjxLxK1GWw

    Immigration in Western Europe:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7Ymki71fM&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpWhdrNlEmI

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/israeli-anti-immigrant-riots-ignored-by-the-organized-jewish-community-and-the-mainstream-western-media/

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/07/jewish-australian-mp-bring-israels-african-immigrants-to-australia/

    http://incogman.net/12/2011/hypocrite-israeli-jews-will-kick-out-50000-africans/

    Israel detains and exports children and African immigrants while foisting mass immigration on Western European countries:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR6Pe7_lPEc

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 9:53 pm

  26. Michael says:

    Why did Asians vote for Obama overwhelmingly?
    Simple it is. They do the math.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 4:39 am

  27. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    As an Indian-American, I’ll tell you why you won’t win with Asians (at least Indian Asians)

    First off, your Bible thumping is very off putting, you want to be a bunch of jeebus loving bible thumpers, fine, but stop trying to push it in our faces, we aren’t interested. When Christians come to our temples and try and disrupt our holy festivals, I can tell you its not going to win much support.

    Also if you think running someone like Jindal or Haley will help you, I’ll let you know the outcome, it won’t help.

    None of the Indians in my community like Jindal or Haley, we consider them morons.

    So feel free to run them, but I wouldn’t.

    Secondly, we aren’t as conservative as you think, we aren’t opposed to social programs as you are.

    Thirdly the racism and bigotry of your base is very off putting. Sorry but its there, you guys can hide and argue that republicans aren’t racist, but we’ve experienced it first hand, so we know just how intolerant the GOP actually is.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6

    10th November 2012 at 5:00 am

  28. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    Protip Stucky:

    Calling us Dot-Heads is not going to win us over to your party

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

    10th November 2012 at 5:02 am

  29. flash says:

    Avinash_Tyagi -Protip Stucky: Calling us Dot-Heads is not going to win us over to your party

    And, what party would that be Avinash?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 5:36 am

  30. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    Republican

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    10th November 2012 at 5:44 am

  31. flash says:

    Avinash ,So Stuck is a Republican and all this time has hid this alliance with the dark side from fellow TBPers……the dirty rotten…..

    Just curious , but could he also be the bastard child of Galactic Emperor Ronnie Raygun as well?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 5:57 am

  32. flash says:

    Good job Avinash. When you look in the mirror from now own you can focus upon the image of a full blown collectivist and be proud that yourself and ilk played as much a party in altering the history of a nation as those few farmers that stood their ground against the British Redcoats culminating into the overthrow of a monarchy.

    You sir, by supporting a Marxist ruler have played a major role in firing the shot of collectivism mortally wounding indivdual liberty which will resonate all over the civilized world.

    I salute you.
    It’s no small feat to bring down a Republic.

    http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/11.12/newkind.html
    The slothful masses now control America through an Orwellian czar in Washington whose mentor was a rabid communist apparatchik in the 1970s and whose close advisors (Bill Ayres, Jeremiah Wright, Valerie Jarrett, etc.) have always been radical leftist haters of America. This Orwellian czar is now a lame duck President and doesn’t have to run again. All that blocks him from ravaging our rights and freedoms is a supine Senate and a timid array of House Republicans. Will these political sycophants be able to stand up to him and the new hordes of entitlement seekers that bolster him with their eager votes? Not likely. Congress will, instead, begin to reach out to the new entitlement seekers along with the pressing hordes of illegals and their comrades waiting in the wings for entrance to America.

    Jean Raspail’s Camp of the Saints looms over the horizon. Congressional sycophants will begin to emulate Fox News analyst, Kirsten Powers, who gleefully reported on election night, “We are now a brown nation.” They will begin to reevaluate their position on the illegals. They will reason that another 15 million illiterate anti-Americans amidst us is no problem. To paraphrase Nixon, “We’re all Multiculturalists now.”

    Thus, Obama will push full-blown for amnesty for the illegals and Marx’s redefinition of slavery into a “new kind of freedom.” We will charge toward the abyss at a speed never before employed. Obama and the Creature will gobble up the last of our freedoms. America will become a giant replica of Greece.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 6:17 am

  33. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    America cannot become greece

    Your belief that it can shows a misunderstanding of of the respective economies

    We have our own central bank (the fed) whereas Greece is under the ECB, we have control of our currency.

    Our Economy is far larger than Greece’s

    And treasuries are still considered a safe investment.

    In fact even with negative real interest rates we still have people looking to invest in our treasuries, basically paying us to borrow.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

    10th November 2012 at 6:41 am

  34. flash says:

    Avinash_Tyagi –America cannot become greece

    Right AT, and fiat currency will away maintain a semblance of it’s intrinsic value.

    Avinash -In fact even with negative real interest rates we still have people looking to invest in our treasuries, basically paying us to borrow.

    Would those investors happen to be the Fed and their discount window customers? My left pocket recently loaned my right pocket 700 billion in freshly printed cash and the interest rate was fabulously affordable.

    No I’m off to invest in the DJI….wish me luck.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 6:51 am

  35. Indian_Indian says:

    Indian_Indian

    I have lived in India, in the UK and in the US. I have never seen any intolerance from any white American. The only time I was afraid in the UK and US was when I was confronted by a black man.

    Indian_American wrote “These impressions stick. True or not, the image is one of white smugness and intolerance”. In the past 30 years (since 1980) America had 20 years of republican presidents’ rule, but I do not think any Indian would have found American intolerant. GW Bush the war monger president also never came across as someone who was intolerant of Indians or any other ethnic groups.

    conservative values are not hogwash, rather the practitioners might be, but then it is better than what you generally find among black Americans who are 99% democratic voters.

    havind said all that the White American cultue is infinitely far better than what we have in India. The endless corruption, the brode burning, the Khap panchayats, the rape of women, the communal riots and what not…

    End Note – YOU will find far less American_Indians than Indian_AMericans on this planet. So much for the SUPERIOR Indian values.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 7:55 am

  36. Indian_Indian says:

    The above is addressed to Indian_American.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 7:55 am

  37. Hollow man says:

    Lol, they probley did vote for Romney!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 8:04 am

  38. Administrator says:

    Avinash Tyagi

    If you think this is a pro-Republican website, you aren’t as smart as I originally thought.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 8:06 am

  39. Hollow man says:

    It just shows how much the injuns know about liberty.
    Freedom of choice and the feedom to suffer the ill effect of those choices to grow you as a human being.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 9:31 am

  40. sangell says:

    It would be impossible to find a more ignorant and bigoted population in the United States than Americas indigenous blacks yet , to hear our Hindu friends here, they are comfortable overlooking the likes of Al Sharpton or the Congressional Black Caucus in their political affiliations. If bible thumping makes you uncomfortable look no further than Barack Obama who will adopt the cadence and tone of the black preacher just as soon as he steps before a black audience and whose own religious leader, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright , ought to make your skin crawl.

    That you are comfortable with these alliances says to me your stated objections to the Republican Party are insincere and that you are simply more of the same big government leftists willing to overlook any flaw in your own political allies if it is necessary to maintain political power.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 9:45 am

  41. Hollow man says:

    Don’t worry injuns you and other like you have invaded and made america what you want it to be.

    You have won. Enjoy it as America dies.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 10:01 am

  42. Hollow man says:

    Obama in 2016, recall it is a living breathing document. It is to grow and mature lika human, corp. And such. Obama does not leave office until 2020.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 10:14 am

  43. Thunderbird says:

    The “shining light” in our now dead constitution that our collective minded population has failed to see is that we are individually self developing beings. The “bill of Rights,” now voided because the people failed to preserve these rights, recognized that we are created from something outside this world that is greater than us, and no power in this world has a right to deny us our right to self development. No one can deny that the body and mind we are given to use in this world are instruments far superior than man can create. These instruments were given us for our self development.

    Government and law is a product of man. When it is used to force programmed development of a certain bent, like socialism, communism, fascism, on a self developing being, it is wrong. And those politicians doing it are wrong.

    This country is being run on negative thoughts and emotions which by their nature lead to slavery to a lower power, fear. Fear makes people give their power away to false promises of those in government. If you think about it government has always led people to slavery, and the more government the more slavery. Limited government, which our forefathers strove for, allows for the most latitude to self developing beings.

    I don’t know where we are headed after this election, but I do know there are still many people in this country that aim for self development and liberty to do it. Perhaps this government will self destruct under the weight of all the entitlements demanded from it just like the Soviet system failed, and the European system is failing. But for now the latter day Bolsheviks are in their hay day.

    Hang tight. Individualism is not dead.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 10:17 am

  44. sangell says:

    Actually Hollow man, the immigration the US receives from Asia is pretty much exactly what any well run immigration program should be. Getting young professionals from India ( hey, they already speak English) were educated at their own countries expense is a win for the US politically and economically. They assimilate and require no expensive government social programs.

    I do wonder about Muslim immigration, even educated Muslims. We certainly don’t need cab drivers from Pakistan, Egypt or anywhere else nor do we need their little stores which are often little more than fronts for various frauds and money laundering schemes.

    An anecdotal story. Growing up in San Francisco in the 1960′s all the little corner groceries were owned by Chinese. SF didn’t have a lot of big supermarkets then so these tiny stores were still viable. Today the Chinese no longer operate any of them. The couples that ran them sold them to Muslim immigrants as they retired and their children graduated from university and went on to work in American industry. Of course, times have changed and those little stores are not so viable anymore so the Muslim proprietors have to engage in coupon and food stamp frauds and other money laundering schemes using these little stores as fronts both out of economic necessity and in keeping with their cultural tradition. It is also the case that the children of these new proprietors are not overwhelming the admissions offices of Stanford and UC Berkeley with applications, again more in keeping with the lower class Muslims. So, again, its not immigration per se that is the problem it is the quality and cultural traditions of the immigrants that matter.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 11:05 am

  45. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    @Administrator

    I’m just basing it on what I’ve read and seen, if it looks like an elephant, and it sounds like an elephant and it walks like an elephant, well you get the point.

    @Sangell

    Wright is a Fringe individual with no power in the Democratic party, within the GOP however, the fringe individuals dominate

    @Indian_Indian

    Yes because rapes and riots never happen in the US, oh wait, rapes do happen every day, and didn’t those white students riot after Obama was elected?

    Hmmmm

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    10th November 2012 at 11:34 am

  46. sangell says:

    @Avinash_Tyagi

    Jeremiah Wright may have no official position with the Obama Administration but we really don’t know what his relationship, if any, with the president currently might be. Certainly Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are powerful figures in the Democratic Party and I can find no equivalent to them
    in Republican party circles. Then there is former DC Mayor, convicted crack cocaine abuser and current city councilman Marion Berry who recently said “”We got to do something about these Asians coming in and opening up businesses and dirty shops. … They ought to go. I’m going to say that right now.” Is that the kind of enlightened thinking you find attractive in the Democratic party?

    As to ‘riots’ , I presume you are speaking of some incident on a Mississippi campus after the election involving some drunken college students? If so you aren’t very familiar with what a real riot is but, if you stay in the US long enough, your fellow democrats will educate you on what a real riot is if you missed out on the LA riots of the early 1990′s. You will see Asi

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 12:03 pm

  47. Administrator says:

    Avinash seems a little touchy about his Indian paradise with 10% inflation and millions living in abject poverty. Maybe you should remove the beam from your eye before spouting about the splinter in someone else’s eye.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 12:05 pm

  48. Thunderbird says:

    The fact the Avinash lives here now says something… he prefers the lifestyle he lives in this country over his own. He gets more respect here using his money than he does in his country; even with their caste system.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 12:18 pm

  49. Stucky says:

    “Stucky: Calling us Dot-Heads is not going to win us over to your party” —- Avinash_Tyagi

    Win you over? You think that’s what I’m trying to do? I could care less. My only intent was to call you out on your own bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and illogical thinking that you spewwed forth on this thread.

    Dothead is what it is — an apt description of people who put red dots on their foreheads. You should be proud of it.

    If you want, you can call me a Kraut … because I am from Austria and I love cabbage! Doesn’t bother me. Or, you can call me ‘Sticky’ because I like to …. well, nevermind.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 12:51 pm

  50. Stucky says:

    Avinash_Tyagi

    One of the things I greatly admire about India Indians — at least the ones living here in the USA — is that they are hard working people. I have never known even one who accepted FREE SHIT. Not one, although there might be exceptions somewhere … if so, surely less than 1%. They work hard, pay their taxes, don’t complain, mind their own business, and commit few crimes. This is all quite exceptional.

    It is also quite baffling, then, that you and your kind affiliate with a party whose primary platform is ….. giving away free shit!! I (we) call that cognitive dissonance.

    And you are GRAVELY misinformed, and seriously lacking in reading for comprehension, if you think I (we) are pro-Republican. I (we) loathe them with equal fervor. Although, it would make much more sense if you disliked Republicans because of their war-mongering whoredom ….. since Indians are, I believe, generally pacifist and very anti-war. THAT would make a lot more sense than your stated reasons of “racism” and “bible thumping” ….. bullshit you are parroting from watching mainstream news, no doubt.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 1:12 pm

  51. indian american says:

    Dear Stucky,

    I believe the issue raised was why Asians did not (generally) vote for Romney. I provided a description of the impressions that many Asians have regarding the republican party. And no, I don’t hate Christians. And I actually believe that our government benefits from having both republicans and democrats as part of the process. Republicans need to understand how they come across if they want to win.

    As for your references regarding Indian culture, I don’t believe that that is the topic of this forum.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 1:18 pm

  52. Indian_Indian says:

    Avinash_Tyagi said

    “Yes because rapes and riots never happen in the US, oh wait, rapes do happen every day, and didn’t those white students riot after Obama was elected?”

    You are taking out the outliers and comparing it to the norm in India. Now crime reporting in India may be a very small percentage of the actual.

    The Indian rupee has fallen from 10 to 54 since 1984. That is about 6% fall just in the currency exchange rate. The inflation in the US has been about 3%-4% all these years. So India has had an inflation rate running at 10% for the past 30 years.

    Recently an Indian bureaucrat mentioned that the poverty line in India is at Rs.32 which translates to about 60 cents a day. I think the FSA in the US live much better than the professionals in India. Somebody is working for it.

    It was news when NY lost power for 3 days because of Sandy, whereas Indian villages do not get power for 16 hours a day. This is quite a norm.

    Even now in many villages in India solve their problems via KHAP panchayats. You can google what is a Khap panchayat to know more- so much for the legal system.

    Indians are know for their Math and Engineering skills, but that is a miniscule percentage of the population. The others are close to the Rs.32 mark I mentioned earlier.

    The infrastructure is close to third world in India. There are states where children are killer because they are female – some parts of the country have 850 girls for 1000 boys.

    Leave the statistics alone, the very fact that Avinash is making his career and life in the country of the “stupid Whitey” is a testament to the greatness of Indian society.

    Is India progressing? Definitely yes. Id America declining? Definitely yes and Obama and his ilk can bring America to Indian levels in a few decades. Anyway Avinash will be happy to live in a non-Whitey America! Let us see how he copes.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 1:25 pm

  53. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    @Administrator

    Who said anything about considering India a paradise, I’m talking GOP, not India, as Tuesday showed you guys are now the minority, I’m very happy with this Democrat majority America. A better America. :D

    @Sangell

    Jackson and Sharpton powerful figures? Since when? Its been years since either had any real influence

    With outdated intelligence like that its no wonder the GOP got trashed this cycle.

    @ Thunderbird

    Indeed, by avoiding Republicans as much as possible, staying out of the backwoods areas of the country and away from any banjo music, I find it quite enjoyable living in the liberal cities of America.

    @ Stucky

    problem is, its not called a dot, its called a Bindi and secondly most Indians don’t wear Bindis

    so the term is both inaccurate and clearly intended as a slur, and you claim bigotry on my part, lol

    Yeah I’m really mistaken, sorry, but your rants clearly label you a republican, otherwise why defend them so vehemently? As for the Racism charge, well you already proved to me yourself that it exists, so I don’t need the MSM.

    As for why I support the Democrats, and why so many others do as well, well I’ve already given the reasons.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    10th November 2012 at 1:27 pm

  54. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    @indian_indian

    Yes because everyone in India commits rape and riots, lol

    I’m comparing outliers to outliers to illustrate that there are outliers everywhere.

    I’m not saying India is anywhere near perfect, it has lots of problems I agree, but India was never the issue I was discussing, I was only referring to your comment about how rapes only happen in India, or some other silliness you were going for.

    And I’m very happy with the current Democrat dominated America, good time ahead once we marginalize the GOP

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    10th November 2012 at 1:33 pm

  55. Stucky says:

    indian american

    You vote according to your belief-system, do you not? How you were raised and what you believe … well, that’s all part of culture. So, indeed, culture is part of the discussion … Indian or otherwise — such as the “trashy alcoholic whites” — another culture, you reference.

    Nevertheless, while I disagree with what you wrote, I certainly DO appreciate that you wrote it. Divergent views are great …. even though they get hammered here. LOL

    At the end of the day, I believe it matters little how Asians vote. The population is too small to significantly affect outcomes. The black vote doesn’t matter either. They’ll vote Democrat forever. It’s the Latino vote that Republicans better figure out.

    Not that I give a shit about our ONE PARTY system. What would be nice? If a solid core group of whites, Hispanics, blacks, and Asians would come together and say; “Enough of this shit! You’re not fooling us any longer!!” …. and then form a legitimate 3rd party ….. of the people and for the people. But, that will never happen as long as there are people (like yourself, sadly) who fail to understand there is not a rat’s ass difference between Dems and Repubs. Go Ron Paul!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 1:36 pm

  56. Stucky says:

    “I’m very happy with this Democrat majority America. A better America.” —- Avinash_Tyagi

    “Yeah I’m really mistaken, sorry, but your rants clearly label you a republican, otherwise why defend them so vehemently?” —— Avinash_Tyagi
    .
    .
    And thus endeth ANY attempt to speak reasonably with Avinash. What a maroon.

    Enjoy your “better America” …. which I hereby nominate, and immediately award; “The Dumbest Dumbass Thing Ever Said On TBP.”

    I’m done with you. Maroon.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 1:44 pm

  57. Indian_Indian says:

    @Avinash_Tyagi

    I am also not comparing India against America, my response was for your “trashy alcoholic whites.” Despite all their limitations the “trashy alcoholic whites” have built a society which is far superior to the “highly educated professional” Indians built in India. In all the parameters I listed, the “trashy alcoholic whites”‘s America is far better than the one in India.

    Like Obama (who blames Bush for everything) You could still blame India’sills to the British rule till some 65 years back.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 1:49 pm

  58. Stucky says:

    Actual picture of Avinash_Tyagi and his Bindi (dot), celebrating Obama’s victory.
    hindu.jpg

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 1:49 pm

  59. Indian_Indian says:

    Stucky – it was a thumbs up for you. I clicked on the down by mistake.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 1:51 pm

  60. AWD says:

    Indians do not have a positive effect on this country. They come here, get government loans and handouts, and buy up hotels, gas stations, convenience stores. They qualify as minorities, and get their hands on all the minority loans and goodies they can. They are as dependent on the government as any FSA member. They only network among themselves, loan each other money, and don’t participate in this country in any way, shape, or form, except to extract money. They do not assimilate with the population, here or any other country they invade, and for all practical purposes, look down on decadent and fat Americans.

    Of course they voted for Obama. America 2.0 is going great. We keep falling and failing:

    America WAS the greatest country in the world – but no longer is. Here are the stats as he breaks them down:

    The U.S. is:

    7th in literacy
    27th in math
    22nd in science
    49th in life expectancy
    178th in infant mortality
    3rd in median household income
    4th in labor force
    4th in exports

    But here are some other stats where the U.S. ranks as well:

    19th is State success
    3rd in oil production
    12th in prosperity
    22nd in freedom of the press
    2nd in child poverty
    30th in nocturnal safety
    3rd in “liking” the United Sates (behind Japan and Kenya)
    11th in “happiness”
    22nd in freedom from corruption
    24th in “perceived” honesty
    39th in income inequality
    4th in employees “faking” illness
    3rd in human development
    10th in economic freedom
    17th in credit “worthiness”
    4th in global competitiveness
    47th in infant survival
    38th in trade freedom
    8th in researchers
    12th in thriving population
    34th in the Children’s index
    61st in monetary freedom
    and, most depressingly, 50th in erection length.

    You get the idea. The rise of economic strength was built on the backs of hard working Americans (white) who built stuff from skyscrapers to railroads. We farmed, we produced and we raised families. The pride of “built in America” was the flag that we waved.

    America just voted for a continuation of dependency. Dependency on government for handouts from food stamps to welfare. Dependency on the graciousness of our neighbors to continue loaning us money to support excess spending. America has become a debtor nation and the cancer of debt has eroded our economic prosperity.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 2:16 pm

  61. Anonymous says:

    AWD, I see 4-5 potential separate countries on your map, not counting Alsaka (which I believe will go solo at some point) and assuming Texas will combine with some other states. Some would say it will take a long time, given there is a lot of red in some of the big blue states, but I say they will ignore the current state borders and re-draw. The partitions around the world should be complete by the time the Fourth Turning ends.

    What do you think?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 2:16 pm

  62. AWD says:

    I agree. The ObamaNation plantations with their modern-day government-dependant slaves should be fenced off from the rest of the country and left to fend for themselves. States should become independent; that said, I live in the socialist state of Illinois, which will never break away from the Federal tit.

    We have the distinction of having brought up Obama the community organizer, the socialist, the communist, and unleashed him on the country. Where I live, however, is very conservative. Illinois could easily be broken into two or three separate states. What a battle that would be: glorious. It would also be glorious to see state trying to gain independence under Obama (the president that ended our country).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 2:23 pm

  63. indian american says:

    I still don’t understand why a discussion regarding why the republicans do not get a majority of Asian votes has any relevance to Indian society in India? If we were comparing US society as a whole to India, my remarks would certainly be different. This is about the asian american perception of the republican party and on that I have expressed my opinion.

    Although I disagree with AWD, he/she does offer an answer to the question: Indians vote democrat b/c they are dependent on gov’t (according to AWD).. I would love to hear someone else propose an answer to the question. Why do Asians go democrat?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 2:43 pm

  64. Indian_Indian says:

    “I still don’t understand why a discussion regarding why the republicans do not get a majority of Asian votes has any relevance to Indian society in India?”

    Simple answer – Because of your condescending remarks and the high moral ground that you took.

    Examples:

    “but tea partiers are seen as uneducated and there is nothing more important to the Asians than education!”
    “he beacon of conservative values, Sara Palin, has an out of marriage grandchild.”
    “but some Asians believe that conservatives are trashy alcoholic whites ”
    “Thirdly the racism and bigotry of your base is very off putting”

    You may not accept many of these but still you justify those who accept these stereotypes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 2:53 pm

  65. indian american says:

    Stucky,

    I believe your reason for the asian tilt toward democrats is that you believe asians overlook the issues in the african-american community but look down on the “white” trash issues that I mention in my post. Correct me if I’m wrong. If I have described your reason correctly, then let me first say that I find this reasoning interesting and thought-provoking. Second, I would ask why you believe Asians might feel this way?

    Indian-Indian, I’ll accept your characterization of my post but would ask the same question as to why you think asians, and particularly Indians, tend to vote for democrats.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 3:03 pm

  66. Thunderbird says:

    Probably Asians go democrat because republicans portray themselves as arrogant know it all persons and war mongers. They want to spend taxpayer money in large sums on offensive military campaigns overseas disguised as Defense spending. They come across as ugly Americans.

    I’ll wager if the republican head honchos did not censor Ron Paul and let him speak to the public on the republican platform, more Asians would have voted republican.

    Just listening to the republican talk show hosts is enough to turn a sensible person off. I doubt if many Asians listen to these garbage radio programs. They sure attract a large group of people who parrot what they say because their minds are closed to reality. Probably a large group of losers who have nothing to do but live on the negativity they spew out. And they do spew out negativity and agitate. Not food for the Asian mind.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 3:12 pm

  67. SAH says:

    “Asian American” is a false demographic group, which includes 2 disparate categories/races of people. The continent of Asia is huge.

    Your Indian friends here are primarily Caucasian. Their genetic lineage is closely related to other West Asians (Afghanistan, Persia) who are also Caucasian – and yes Indians are closely related to Europeans as well. Indians are genetically 3x more closely related to Western Europeans than they are to the Mongoloid (aka oriental) Asians who reside East of the Himalayas. Most all of you Caucasians also share Indo-European languages and a love of Cows and dairy products in common. You are also all people with ability to grow ample facial hair, and body hair, and are the only race on Earth to have the gene for blue/green eyes (yes, West Asians have those too – in lower frequencies). You’ve also always shared a common ancient center of cultural heritage, emanating from the fertile-crescent region of the Middle East. Sorry to inform you, but you’re of a common racial and cultural background.

    Orientals aka East Asians are racially Mongoloid. Genetically, Orientals are not closely related to Indians and other West Asians at all. None have Indo-European languages, don’t love Cows (traditionally use water buffalo) and none have any the ability to consume Dairy products, a very few desire to. Orientals have little ability to grow facial or body hair, and none carry the blue/green eye gene. The fertile crescent hasn’t played an influential role in cultural development East of the Himalayas, with China instead serving as the common ancient center of cultural heritage for all Orientals.

    These 2 groups (Indians and Orientals) really cannot be lumped together in any way other than the arbitrary geographical designation of what comprises the Asian continent. Even more strangely, other West Asian relatives of India such as Afghanistan and Persia are considered Caucasian in
    American demographic definitions. They just tossed 1 Caucasian group, the Indians in with orietals. Furthermore, as different as Euro Caucasians are from Indian Caucasians – well, among Orientals vast differences exists between Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Tibetians, Vietnamese, Korea, etc.

    There is NO meaningful way that an ethnic correlation can be made with supposed “Asian voting habits”. The REAL determining factor here cannot possibly be race (since “Asians” are a false group of 2 races) nor can it be culture since there are multiple cultural variations in each of the 2 races that make up “Asian Americans”. The real determiner here is in other factors:

    “Asian Americans” of both the Indian and oriental types have the highest rates of college and graduate education in America, have travelled internationally, and have high incomes. Polling by John Zogby that did not differentiate by race found that overall:
    1. Among college-educated voters, Obama leads by 8 points, 47 percent to 39 percent.
    2. Voters who have traveled internationally give Obama a 10-point advantage, 48 percent to 38 percent.
    3. Romney had the greatest support among middle-income Americans (6 point lead over Obama) making $50-$75k. His lead dropped by half (3 points) among those making over $100k.

    The final 2 factors are Religion and Geography. Most Indian and Oriental “Asian Americans” are NOT Christian, so Repulicans fail to gain “Christian Values Voters” whom they emphasize and rely on so heavily. Finally, both Indian and Oriental “Asian Americans” tend to live and work in high population Democratic strongholds – places like NY, NJ, CA etc where all of the voters are more likely to vote Democrat anyway.

    It really ISN’T a race or ethnicity thing (as it is with Black voting trends) for — “Asian Americans” are an imagined race, and an imagined ethnic group.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 3:39 pm

  68. Kill Bill says:

    49th in life expectancy

    See, the donks and paks want to depopulate the country and when the austerity measures hit expect it to rise even higher.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 3:52 pm

  69. indian american says:

    What is a “donk”?

    SAH- you don’t think that there are common cultural elements between East Asians and Indians? I do, although my opinion is based purely on personal observation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 4:20 pm

  70. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    @ Stucky and Indian_Indian

    Sorry but I never used the Term “Trashy Alcoholic whites”

    Its funny that you guys have to invent things “that I said” to try and argue with me, lol, you guys are truly desperate.

    Stucky You’re a Ron Paul fan? You have my sympathy, I had no idea you suffered from such mental insanity

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

    10th November 2012 at 4:49 pm

  71. Administrator says:

    Avinash is clearly a troll who would rather take a big shit on the site rather than debate issues. Time to head back to Huffington Post and Paul Krugman’s blog for your wisdom. Don’t miss the Chris Matthews show tonight. It’ll send a tingle up to your nutsack.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 5:03 pm

  72. SAH says:

    @indian American – I believe a “donk” is a American black male slang term for “Big Ass” as in – “Damn, homey you see dat honey with da Donka Donk Donk?! I’d like to gets me sum o dat fo sho, and skeet all ova dat, ya feel me?!”. But… I’m not fluent in Ebonics so you might want to check google translate.

    As for similarities between Indians and Orientals? India and China both make a lot of babies and have over a Billion people. They are both forced as groups by geography to immigrate legally, so we get high quality immigrants from both places. They fill similar niches in America – math/science/engineering/medicine. They had that one movie together – “Harold and Kumar” which was funny. Orientals got Buddhism from India, and India got rice from China. That’s about it.

    India is truly Caucasian. Even the Caste system is very similar to European feudalism. Oriental society based on Confucianism has always been about competitive testing, and in a way, cutthroat meritocracy.

    Perceived Similarities I think are like a cultural version of Convergent Evolution. Indians and Orientals share certain social strategies in America, but they derive from completely separate cultural and racial lineages.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 5:35 pm

  73. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    @Administrator

    What issues are not being debated? What idea of yours do you consider to have been ignored?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 5:56 pm

  74. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    Also for those who don’t believe the GOP has a religion problem, check it out

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/10/15073187-this-week-in-god?lite

    Basically if you weren’t an Evangelical or a Mormon, you probably didn’t vote for Romney

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

    10th November 2012 at 6:03 pm

  75. Hollow man says:

    Madcow? Yes siree she tells the truth! No wonder you think this is a repub site. Liberty dang it! Choice! Make it or fail based on your actions. Small goverment!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    10th November 2012 at 7:08 pm

  76. Administrator says:

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 7:41 pm

  77. Administrator says:

    Avanish

    What did ya learn on the Chris Matthews show tonight?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 7:43 pm

  78. Administrator says:

    Avadish

    Is that you on the front of the train?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 7:48 pm

  79. Administrator says:

    Avakanish references this shrill libtard to prove his allegance to the religion of liberal ideas. How’s that Keynesianism working out for Japan after 33 years and 5 recessions? If they had just spent more.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 7:55 pm

  80. Avinash_Tyagi says:

    Actually Japan’s problem is they were too timid in reacting early on and fell into a liquidity trap, their method of fiscal spending has been much like the US’s, timid and stop and go in nature (the US however acted much faster than Japan did in loosening interest rates at the onset of the recession avoiding the liquidity trap)

    The problem is that country’s like the US and Japan lack the political will for the size of expenditure necessary.

    For a bit of context, WW2 was the stimulus that finally ended the depression, adjusted for inflation to 2011 levels, US expenditure on the war comes to about 4 trillion.

    By comparison, the spending on the US Stimulus was 839 billion (spread over 10 years)

    Basically trying to move an economy about 6 times larger with a stimulus about 5 times smaller.

    So there’s no real surprise that it only generated/saved a few million jobs rather than the many millions we lost due to the Bush era, it was far too small to do the full job.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    10th November 2012 at 2:39 am

  81. Prem says:

    Why Indian Americans voted overwhelmingly for Obama:

    1. They like Obama personally. They like the fact that he went to Harvard – a minus with the banjo duelling demographic, but a big plus with Indians.

    2. Birtherism, Sununu (Obama must learn to be American, Colin Powell only endorses Obama because he is Black) and the general racist disrespect from the GOP is totally off putting.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    10th November 2012 at 11:28 pm

  82. Kepi says:

    Firstly, I want to say I’m very thankful for our Immigrants. Not only are they responsible for bringing a lot of things I would never have been exposed to otherwise into the country and provided a cultural rejuvination that was much needed, but they’re the ones coming here and having babies. If it weren’t for immagrants, we’d be in the same position Japan is and the same that Europe will be in the near future. If you have negative population growth, your economy cannot grow. Hell, the last time the world population is believed to have stagnated, was the beginning of the fall of the Roman empire, the beginning of the dark ages. That the US won’t suffer that fate in my lifetime is because of immagration, and for that I’m grateful.

    As for the reason Asian Americans went to Obama rather than Romney, I’d say it’s the total loss of dignity the party has suffed. Culturally dignity is a huge deal to most Asian American cultures (whether or not their culture of origin seems to care), and when you represent yourselves as a bunch of screaming selfdestructive lunatics, you lose the Asian vote with contempt (meaning they’ll go to the other guy). To Asian immigrants, it is important that outsiders see them as respectable, dignified people to be taken seriously and they view their success in this country as an indication that such a disposition works. When they see the party throwing a crazy hissyfit for 4 years because they don’t know how to act when they’re not in power, Asian folks’ll disconnect pretty hard.

    Now, that applies to First Generation Asian Immigrants. FOB’s if you will. Second Generation Immagrants generally follow the tradition of eventually voting the opposite of how you percieve your parents. Since most First Gen Immagrants strike their kids as being traditional and old school, they’re going to vote for what is pressed as the liberal/progressive option because being raised by Tiger Mom makes them want to pursue other options.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 12:51 am

  83. Mike says:

    Asians are more cosmopolitan. There are more connected to opinion in the rest of the world where war mongering is unpopular. They are more likely to be academics and less likely to work in the defense industry. They find our culture wars bizarre. They are less likely to live in rural areas. They fear that racism could be directed at them as well as other groups. Many are good at math (that’s just a joke I’m throwing in!).These are also factors in why Jews do not support the GOP – but there are other historical factors as well.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    10th November 2012 at 5:22 pm

  84. Rainouart says:

    Hey, indian american:

    YOU HAVE PROVED “IN SPADES” WHAT I HAVE SUSPECTED FOR A LONG TIME – THAT MINORITIES LIKE YOU VOTE DEMOCRAT BECAUSE YOU ARE ANTI-WHITE RACISTS, AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS NOW A PARTY WHOSE WHOLE APPEAL IS ANTI-WHITE RACISM. AND THE FASCIST MEDIA CONTINUALLY REINFORCES YOUR NATIVE RACISM WITH BIGOTED STEREOTYPES OF WHITES — WHICH YOU LAP UP BECAUSE THE RACIST STEREOTYPING GLORIFIES YOUR ANTI-WHITE RACIST VANITY.
    The republican party comes across as the the party of sanctimonious white Christians.
    OH? AND WHAT ABOUT SANCTIMONIOUS HINDUS? (OH, RIGHT, NO SUCH THING — ONLY WHITE CHRISTIANS CAN BE SANCTIMONIOUS.)
    The economic message is lost in the bible thumping.
    BALONEY — THE MESSAGE IS 9/10 ECONOMIC AND 1/10 OR LESS “BIBLE THUMPING”. IT’S JUST THAT YOUR ELECTRONIC DEMAGOGUE — CALL IT “DEMOCRAT T.V.” FOR ACCURACY — S-A-I-D “THEY’RE JUST A BUNCH OF BIBLE-THUMPERS” AND YOU BELIEVED IT … AND YOU BELIEVED IT NOT BECAUSE IT’S TRUE BUT BECAUSE YOU’RE A RACIST.
    Example: very wealthy Indian American doctor will not vote for Republicans b/c of a speech at the RNC convention years ago talking about how we are a judeo-christian nation for judeo christians…blah, blah.
    YEARS AGO?? SUCH IMPRESSIONS ONLY STICK BECAUSE THE RACIST HATE THAT WAS ALREADY THERE GAVE IT THE EMOTIONAL PUNCH THAT MAKES PIDDLY SHIT LIKE THAT STICK. THAT DOCTOR MUST BE A HORSE’S ASS TO VOTE AGAINST HIS OWN ECONOMIC SELF-INTEREST JUST TO GET EVEN WITH THE HONK, BUT SUCH IS THE POWER OF RACIST HATE. OH HEAVENS, I FORGOT. TAKE THAT BACK — ONLY THE HONKY CAN BE A RACIST, NEVER AN INDIAN-”AMERICAN” WHO HATES AMERICANS THAT ARE UNLIKE HIMSELF.
    These impressions stick. True or not, the image is one of white smugness and intolerance. And this image is only growing…
    SO WHO IS SMUG AND INTOLERANT? O-F C-O-U-R-S-E IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IF IT ISN’T TRUE — DOES RACISM CARE IF IT’S TRUE OR NOT? NO, IT’S HAVING TOO MUCH FUN: “LET’S VOTE FOR OBOMINATION AND STUFF IT TO THE HONK!”

    Moreover, asian americans do not identify with the image of the tea party. Guns, slogans, racial undertones.
    THE ONLY “RACIAL” UNDERTONES CONSIST IN THE SLANDEROUS IMAGE PRESENTED BY DEMOCRAT T.V. — BUT YOU ARE SUCH A COCK THAT YOU BELIEVE IT INSTANTLY BECAUSE YOUR PRE-EXISTING ANTI-WHITE RACISM, WHICH YOU PROBABLY BROUGHT WITH YOU FROM INDIA, IS LEGITIMIZED (SEEMINGLY). OH WAIT, I FORGOT, THERE IS NO RACISM IN INDIA. ONLY THE HONK CAN BE A RACIST.
    ALSO, IT’S QUITE CLEAR THAT 1776 DOESN’T MEAN A THING TO YOU INDIAN-”AMERICANS”. YOU COULDN’T CARE LESS ABOUT IT UNLESS THERE’S SOMETHING IN IT FOR YOU. AND YOUR T.V. DEMAGOGUE OF COURSE WASHES YOUR BRAIN OF ANY IDEA THAT THERE IS ANYTHING IN IT FOR YOU — ESPECIALLY WITH RACIST STEREOTYPES ABOUT SOME OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS WHO OWNED SLAVES.
    SO LET’S SEE — YOU PREEN YOURSELVES ON YOUR MORAL SUPERIORITY, EVEN THOUGH IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE LINGERING INFLUENCE OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE AND WHITE ANGLO-SAXON, CHRISTIAN VALUES — INDIA WOULD BE A HELL-HOLE OF CASTE-BASED OPPRESSION (IF IT ISN’T STILL).

    I don’t know the stats, but tea partiers are seen as uneducated and there is nothing more important to the Asians than education!
    YOU DON’T KNOW A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G EXCEPT WHAT YOUR T.V. DEMAGOGUE TOLD YOU TO THINK. THE TEA PARTY DRAWS ALL TYPES, BUT IT IS ORGANIZED BY PROFESSIONAL-CLASS PEOPLE — GOT IT, KNOW-NOTHING?

    Finally, there is a feeling that the conservative values are hogwash. States like WV and Alabama have huge divorce rates and teenage pregnancy; the beacon of conservative values, Sara Palin, has an out of marriage grandchild. (A friend of mine once joked that he married into an Indian family b/c he wanted to experience traditional American values that he didn’t find in American homes! )
    ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER MINDLESS DEMOCRAT T.V.-MADE IMAGE THAT INDIAN RACISTS LOVE BECAUSE IT LEGITIMIZES THEIR PRE-EXISTING ANTI-WHITE RACISM.
    I don’t agree with this generalization, but some Asians believe that conservatives are trashy alcoholic whites who don’t practice what they preach.
    THEY BELIEVE THAT ABOUT ALL WHITES. EXCEPT THOSE THAT SUCK YOUR ASS BY AGREEING THAT ONLY THE HONKY CAN BE A RACIST.

    I don’t agree with all of this, but these are things I have heard over and over.
    PROVING HOW WIDESPREAD INDIAN RACISM IS.
    I am a highly educated Indian-American from a self-made professional family. At home, we are conservative, with a 0% divorce rate, 0% alcoholism rate, and an average income well over $200k. And yes, we are all democrats.
    BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL ANTI-WHITES AND THE DHIMMI-CRAT PARTY HAS STAKED ITS FUTURE ON CONDONING AND EVEN ENCOURAGING ANTI-WHITE RACISM — WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF THEIR TELEVISION MIND-CONTROL CARTEL. BUT THIS CARTEL WOULDN’T HAVE ANY POWER OVER YOUR MIND UNLESS YOU WEREN’T ALREADY CORRUPT WITH RACISM: ALL THE T.V. CAN DO, BASICALLY, IS REINFORCE A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION — (LIKE THE FAMOUS CON-MAN WHO, WHEN THE F.B.I. ASKED HIM HOW HE WAS ABLE TO CON SO MANY PEOPLE, REPLIED “BECAUSE THE SUCKER HAS LARCENY IN HIS HEART”).

    OH, AND AS FOR 0% DIVORCE AND ALL THE REST, THAT IS JUST YOUR FAMILY. MY FAMILY HAS THE SAME RECORD, BUT IT DOESN’T COUNT BECAUSE WE’RE JUST A BUNCH OF HONKIES. (NOW, ABOUT INDIA — HOW MUCH HONOR-KILLING IS THERE OVER THERE? OR WIFE-MURDER? EH? OH RIGHT, THAT DOESN’T COUNT BECAUSE IT DOESN’T GLORIFY INDIAN VANITY.
    WHILE YOU’RE LOOKING DOWN ON WHITE “SMUGNESS” AND “INTOLERANCE”, MAYBE YOU COULD SPARE A MOMENT FOR LOOKING IN THE MIRROR — CANDIDLY THIS TIME.

    Moderator- if you find this post offensive, please consider the points and incorporate them into your own comments if you like.
    I AM NOT THE MODERATOR, BUT I DO FIND IT OFFENSIVE. BUT DON’T WORRY, IT WON’T BE DELETED. THE HONKY’S OFFENDEDNESS DOESN’T COUNT!!
    I don’t think the Mormon aspect was at all relevant. I would not describe Asians as tolerant of other religions– it is more like indifference.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    10th November 2012 at 12:50 am

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