During my life, I have gradually developed a set of things that I believe. As a young person, I received very little in the way of help in developing these beliefs. In general, as a young person I never considered these things to be important. But somewhere along the line, I determined that what I wanted to be was an educated man, and that I wanted to make things, and be successful in business, and to have a happy, healthy, emotionally sound family. As a result, I gradually began to develop things I believe in. Following is a very truncated list of things I believe in. I add and subtract from things I believe in all of the time, and alter it based on things I learn and experience. The reason I have put this list forward is that these beliefs form the basis for my position on most issues. At the moment I am struggling to understand why some people take the positions that they do, as it seems to indicate that their belief set is extremely dissimilar to mine, and so I am confused. I welcome your comments and additions to this list.
I believe:
– in the general decency of the American people
– in the US form of government
– in the resilience of the American people
– in the obligation to conduct business honestly and with integrity
– that if one of my employees has the courage to ask me the question I need to have the courage to respond honestly
– in education
– in education for its own sake
– that the country needs to improve its education in the sciences, math, and engineering
– that governments should not fund college educations in the arts, but should funnel the money into science, math, and engineering
– that the general decency of the American people is being eroded by a growing welfare state
– that each person must be responsible for their own actions
– that each person should be responsible for meeting the costs of their retirement and old age
– in family
– in telling my children and my wife that I love them every day
– in becoming a better person each day
– in acting within the law
– in personal financial responsibility
– in spending less than you earn
– in paying your debts
– in staying debt free, except for financing an education and buying a home
– that building things is a noble pursuit
– in writing my representatives demanding change
– in books
– in reading every day
– in learning something every day
– in peaceful, lawful protest
– in protecting the weak
– in respecting the aged
– in loyalty to one’s family and friends
– in charity
– in being kind to animals
– in leaving a positive future for my children
– that making a profit is a good thing
– in capitalism
– in being polite to those providing me service
– that being rich is not a sin
– that being poor is not a sin
– in buying American-made
– that unions suck
– that everyone should have to pay taxes
– that we pay too much tax
– that the government spends too much
– that we should not be policing the world
– that we should secure our borders
– a man’s word is his bond
– in hard-work
– in no excuses
– in good planning
– in living life so that when I look back I will have no regrets
And this list goes on and on. Thanks for reading.
I don’t believe in atheism.
I beleive I am a Christian. But I am yet to be properly tested.
A pretty good list. Some comments:
“- in the US form of government.” Really? I think they took a great recipe and turned it into a shit sandwich.
“-in the resilience of the American people.” We going to find out soon enough.
“- that governments should not fund college educations in the arts, but should funnel the money into science, math, and engineering.” Why? How would they know what disciplines to fund and at what levels? It isn’t their money and there’s no profit/loss test. Bound to fail.
“- in acting within the law.” What if the law in question is immoral?
Steve – 1) democracy with elected reps seems pretty good to me.
2) yep
3) We have limited resources for education. States (primarily) fund the state university systems. The nation needs math grads lots more than we need psych grads. If they want to study psych or art history, they can fund it themselves. We need to promote math and science and engineering, especially given finite resources, in my opinion.
4) if the law is immoral, see option # 1 – get it changed through government. I believe this option still is viable. Trouble is people are too apathetic to do anything.
That’s a helluva good list.
I can’t keep a list in my head that’s more than five or so items long. I don’t know how you do it.
I will only list the handful of items I disagree with;
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1) “- that governments should not fund college educations in the arts,”
What? And lose the chance at developing the next Mozart or Michelangelo? The Arts define a culture and people more than the sciences. The best book I ever read onthe subject is Francis Scheffer’s, “How Should We Then Live? The Rise and Decline of Western Thought and Culture.”
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2) “- in acting within the law”
ONLY if the law is just and moral. Killing Jews was once a legal act.
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3) – ” … in writing my representatives demanding change ..”
Chasing the wind, imho. They don’t listen. They don’t care.
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4) ” – in buying American-made ”
Only a minor disagreement. I DO try to Buy American whenever I can. But I refuse to make it an iron clad rule. Take cars, for example. American cars are nice and pretty when they roll off the line, and maybe even for a few years thereafter. But I value durability and reliability above all else. And American cars can’t hold a fuckin’ candle to Japanese models.
The rest of your list is as American as baseball (a dumb, boring sport) and Apple Pie (mmmm, yummy!!),
llpoh,
The founders gave us a republic. The politicians transformed it into a democracy. The first protects the minority from mob rule. The latter IS mob rule. The results speak for themselves.
Education subsidies are the primary reason why education costs far outstrip inflation year after year. Stop the money machine of the Fed, have market rates for borrowing, and the inflated tuition costs would pop. People could go to school without going into hawk.
Immoral laws: to use an extreme example, the Nazi’s passed a law making it illegal to help or harbor Jews. You’d rely on this being overturned in an election? Less extreme examples follow the same principle. If a law initiates force or fraud against the innocent, it is immoral and should be resisted by more than an occasional vote that won’t matter.
This reminds me of the list George Washington used to keep and review daily, llpoh.
Washington was a humble man at his core. His contemporaries, British and Native Americans alike saw something special in George, even at a young age.
I think that something was his dedication to goodness. It is what set George apart, and prepared him and our young country for an extraordinary time.
He had a terrible temper and worked very hard to keep it at bay. He practiced being kind, thoughtful, and completing ordinary tasks well. He categorized the specific habits he wanted to improve and reviewed the list daily. He practiced being good. He believed he was a work in progress and never wavered in trying to improve his character. He was circumspect, humble and virtuous. He was never pompous or a bore.
There was a time in American history when colonists weren’t certain they deserved to be free. So they placed great emphasis on developing qualities like personal responsibility, thrift, kindness, and temperance. They worked on themselves and by extension their communities. They wanted to be worthy of freedom. They recognized it was a responsibility.
People were not educated formally, like we are today, but they were far more knowledgeable. The everyday person could recite history, identify and appreciate artistic works, and discuss current events.
Two steps forward and 102 steps back, heh? It saddens me to see how far our culture and society has fallen.
But I do think you are onto something, llpoh. We have no power over what others see, do and say. We can only control our own actions and strive to improve our own character.
Maybe, if there are enough of us following this path, we can restore America – one person, one family, one community at a time.
I believe in the US Constitution.
I believe in our young people.
I believe in continuously trying to educate the sheeple.
I believe in Doppleganging.
So, I ve got this great business going and the government steps in with regs that motherfucks my livelihood and I’m to bow down and not whimper as I take up the ass… fuck no excuses,I want restitution.
The US fascist form sucks and I’m beginning to think you do too.
Stuck – I think you will find those great artists you mentioned were largely privately funded. And I believe that arts should be privately funded. I understand your point, but we are drowning here, and good artists will not help us make a living.
Re #2: I don’t think they made it mandatory. Most laws are prohibitory rather than whatever the opposite of prohibitory is. They forbid you doing things. I might change my mind vis a vis laws that are confiscatory or that make immoral acts mandatory, or if I begin to believe peaceful change cannot work.
Re #4 – I buy American made where possible but not to the point of idiocy. But small variations in price do not make me abandon American made. That is penny wise and pound foolish.
“- in the US form of government”
Which one? The current kleptocracy where all votes are available for a price? I believe that the original form from 1789 through Andrew Jackson was fairly decent. It was always and ever intended as a “democracy” of a sort of aristocratic class anyway, and once that started being diminished, the system started becoming corrupted rapidly.
“- in the general decency of the American people
– in the resilience of the American people
– that the general decency of the American people is being eroded by a growing welfare state”
I can only guess that you are between 50 and perhaps 75 years of age. I believe the first two were reasonable beliefs to develop based on how people and government behaved prior to about 1968 (admittedly with many failings even back then). If you spent some real “quality time” with younger people I think your faith in decency and resilience would be greatly shaken. More like late imperial Rome. As for the third point I fully agree, but it reinforces my comments on the first two points.
“- that each person must be responsible for their own actions
– that each person should be responsible for meeting the costs of their retirement and old age
– in personal financial responsibility”
Great ideals, and in a nation of laws and justice I would absolutely agree. In our ponzi-casino financial system there are largely those who take and those who get taken. With the Fed constantly devaluing the dollar it is not realistically possible to save enough using ordinary savings means (such as bank accounts), and entering the stock market is simply gambling in a rigged casino. Things are too corrupt for this to work.
“- in acting within the law”
And when the law is blatantly immoral, unjustifiable, and enforced arbitrarily, and there is no realistic possibility of change to the law? What then?
“- in writing my representatives demanding change”
When I was younger and more naive, I often wrote my nominal representatives. Nominal. None of them are actually my representatives, and the thinly disguised “fuck you, moron” response letters I consistently received (in response to polite and well-written letters) made that very clear. Generally they said, in essence, “thank you (haha) for your comments, but you are wrong and people who donate more money than you will get their way, regardless of morality, the Constitution, public opinion, or (haha) democratic principles.” The system is corrupt and has been for all of my adult life.
“- in buying American-made
– that unions suck”
DOES NOT COMPUTE. Actually I do buy US-made stuff when it is the best, as with many firearms and some other sporting goods. But US-made cars are striving for third place, thanks to the UAW, and the same is true of many other US products for much the same reason. For example, I’ve bought Red Wing boots for farm use because they were one of the last US-made shoemakers, and they have proven to be junk comparable to Chinese imports that cost 1/3 as much.
“- in hard-work”
Great ideal, but for the last few decades there has been far more money in sophisticated con games and ripoffs.
Flash. HOLY SHIT!!
Was THAT necessary?
10 posts in and you’re flinging shit.
Wow.
Let’s see if llpoh will add “turn the other cheek” to his list. lol
-In the United States CONSTITUTIONAL form of government, before it was sytematically dismanted.
-In the freedom to buy American when it makes sense and buy foreign when that makes sense. (loves me some Japanese cars, French wines and Scotch whisky).
-In science as the ultimate authority governing rational decisions
-In art and creative expression as the ultimate expression of humanity
-In building strong communities
-In cultivating my relationships, and pursuing my passions as my highest callings in life.
Snicky picks apart llpoh’s list phrase by phrase, word by word.
llpoh is gonna be up until 2AM tonight defending his honor.
Good Luck, Bud!
flash – you are the reason I wrote this. You read into it what you want to. I neither said nor implied any such thing. As a matter of fact have said many times that I squeak like mad when things are being shoved down my throat. Sometimes I have even won – at a cost, undeniably. But it can be done. But we are a people of laws, and we have a government that is supposed to be working for the greater good. It often doesn’t turn out that way. And I sure do not believe in every man for himself – and I would never want you to be the decider of what is right and wrong, legal and not. Which you obviously want to be. Asshole.
Well, I learned how to weld today AND to handle a oxygen/acetylene cutting torch so the testosterone, heh, heh, is flowing freely.
I am trying to down thumbs Steve Hogan @ 8:17 and thumbs up everybody else but this f&*()(#*&$ word press is not cooperative tonight.
Great list llpoh. Just, plz, number them for us old farts that did not grow up with bullet points. When you post, I sometimes feel like one of those freakin’ twins separated at birth.
I would only add – “Thanking whatever God is listening that I am so blessed in this life”.
@Admin: where, exactly, is llpoh talking about aethism? And this, coming from you, a soon-to-be-Catholic-refugee?
Hope
It was a joke. Think about the statement.
llpoh turns the other cheek ….. until the last word.
Grade A-
Persnickety – you said “The current kleptocracy where all votes are available for a price?” The form of government is not bought and sold – the reps are. The form is fine in my book. The reps need to be changed, and laws about donations/lobbyists introduced.
I really do not know what to say to the rest. If I read you correctly yo seem to be saying that these beliefs are a waste of time. Personally, I try to live an honest and moral life.
Re the union comments – unions are a large part of the reason that quality of American made products often suck.
Re spending time with young people – i know a lot of young people via my kids. Almost universally hard-working squared away kids, working toward something. They may be a statistical blip. The ones I meet as an employer – they are not generally those I would want to employ or entrust anything to.
Re the various comments re immoral laws – the examples given tend to be the most outrageous possible. Anyone have anything a bit closer to home? We all know the evils of Hitler Germany.
Hope – if we were twins I have no doubt I would be the butt-ugly one. Re the format – I type on Word then copy it over. It generally looks fine on Word but sucks on WordPress. You are right – I should have noticed.
I sure do argue with you all the time, but that is a great list.
Too bad those is power, those in charge of our monetary system, the politicians, the lobbyists, the beneficiaries of subsidies, graft, and government hand-outs, the union bosses, the entitlement recipients that won’t work, Wall Street, the banksters, and all the rest of the people that have ignored your list that have destroyed our country.
Those are value of a time gone by.
1) I do not believe that the current form is distinguishable from the current corruption. Democracy is an extremely difficult and usually temporary form of government, and it started evaporating from the US somewhere around 1850, even though many people don’t see it even now. The changes you propose would be positive, but are like putting duct tape on a leaking dam. No long term solution.
2) “If I read you correctly yo seem to be saying that these beliefs are a waste of time. Personally, I try to live an honest and moral life.” There is a difficulty here: observing beliefs that by themselves seem to have a moral foundation, when doing so results in harm to people you have a moral obligation not to harm. For example, belief solely in hard work and saving, with ultimate failure causing you to be a burden on your children; or to not take any medical treatment on credit, causing you to die prematurely and deprive your children of your support and guidance. Or, blindly obeying the law and reporting infractions to the police for prosecution, when the supposed infraction is not immoral, or is less immoral than the harm resulting from the person’s conviction. My view I will call, without intending to be arrogant, deep morality; trying to see as far down the chain of causation as possible and determine the best course of action. It is by no means infallible, and it too ultimately rests on principles, but a few very simple ones – basically, obligation to help and support family, and to avoid any unjustified harm on anyone.
3) Re: your kids’ friends. Chances are you raised good kids and they chose good friends. Therefore they would not be a representative sample. I’m not saying that NO young people are good, I am only saying that I believe the cultural has fundamentally changed and the average is not so good.
4) Laws, laws, laws. How about environmental laws? I consider it immoral to pollute in a way that harms others, but is it immoral to file paperwork a day late? Or to do something that is itself decent, but without having received a permit beforehand? Speed limits? If there’s no one around, except the officer running the speed trap in the median, is there a moral issue with speeding? What I am getting at is basically positivism vs. either natural law or a refined system of utilitarianism. I am not a positivist. However, nearly everyone who writes legislation is, as are a great number of judges.
AWD – thanks. I do not mind that they are from a time gone by. Many guess think that it is a waste of time having a belief system given how poorly our leaders behave and how they seem to be immoral, unethical, and totally corrupt. But that is them, and I try hard not to behave that way.
lloph,
Agree with you in every respect except your belief in the US form of government.
Do you believe in government by elites, a living Constitution, and the way the country is run now?
Please define your term, “the US form of government.”
I believe in the Great Pug Buddha. May his Generous Heart never run out.
For those that believe in heaven and hell,
Do the right thing, live your life the right way, follow the path, not perfection, but the right way, and….heaven.
Follow the way of greed, pride, envy, sloth, gluttony, wrath, vanity, immorality, corruption, and all the rest, and you know where they are going to end up….the hot place, burning….
Persnickety – I guess I tend to see speed limits as suggestions rather than laws. 🙂 Although that said, I really do not speed – I find it does not get me there any faster, and it is more dangerous, and I have often had kids in the car to protect. So I have become accustomed to being a doddler.
Filing paperwork late – I hadn’t given any time thinking about that. But I do not do that either. I believe in planning.:)
Re late paperwork, my kids have had the lecture from me many times about how I do not accept them turning in their work late. Throughout many years of school – grade/high/uni/grad/post grad I never turned an assignment in late. They hate that story. Good planning prevents piss poor results.
Re #2) I suppose I agree that things are not always black and white and that there can be unintended consequences. But they are almost always so with me. I am sure it is a character flaw.
Re your #3 above – I suspect you are correct. But hope springs eternal.
@Jim: I still don’t get it. But I made Ranch dressing with Miracle Whip instead of Hellman’s mayo and it was really really really horrible, I hope the chickens will eat it up, it really freaked me out so perhaps it is just some weirdness associated with that.
@llpoh: Nay, nay, no one is butt ugly in the TBP universe, **kiss**. It is NEVER wrong to have a moral compass. Without a compass you don”t know where you are. If you don’t know where you are,then you don’t know where you’re going. If you don’t know where you’re going, you don’t know where you’ve been. Then, you are truly LOST. Hence, why a compass, ESPECIALLY, a moral one, is SO important.
Keep up the good fight, my friend. We may be dinosaurs in what we believe, in this era of screw anybody to get ahead and devil take the hindmost, but the era of the dinosaurs lasted for 300 million freakin’ years and most people’s careers don’t last for more than one news cycle.
So put that in y’all’s pipe and smoke it.
Jackson – the form I believe in is a democratic one with representation. i have no argument that the group of leaders we have are corrupt and immoral and are bringing the country to ruin. We need to toss them out while simultaneously demanding changes to prevent lobbying, corporate donations, limits to private donations (i.e. prevent multimillion dollar donations by the Koch brothers, etc.). But the basic form I find is fine. It is the power that the “elites” are wielding over it that is the problem.
The Great Pug Buddha:
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Sorry PJ – I am trying. Once more:
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LLPOH
Thanks for sharing that list. Everyone should have values or principles that they center their daily lives around.
I believe solid relationships are built on care and candor.
I believe some of my best thinking has been done by others.
I believe one should be impressed, not impressive.
I believe in leading by example.
I believe in mentoring others.
I believe personal and professional growth is a daily discipline of sound habits.
I believe we have all been given a gift from God that should be shared with the world.
I believe in gaining wisdom from every experience.
AWD
I didn’t know you were a Bible Thumper. Fine.
The Bible tells us to love our neighbors.
You have 70 million Boomers.
Therefore, you are going to hell. Fry, you little hater!
I have spoken. So be it. Amen, and amen.
You HATE 70 million Boomers.
Goddammit.
LLPOH
“And this list goes on and on.”
TH’FK?
I believe you need to get out more often.
D – what is this “out” to which you refer?
A good list.
“out” – as in…
laugh, sing, dance…
trip the light fantastic
Guess they’re not on the list.
Arrrgghh! Satan is amongst us! I cast thee out. Sing, dance – these be Satan’s works!
D – when you have kids, these things take a back seat to taking care of the kids. I work and I do family things, and I waste time around here. That takes care of the laughter bit. Spending time with the family is all I really care about. We don’t do too much singing – but we get out a bit. We have a big vacation planned for Xmas. My boy will be home from college, and my girl will be free from high school – so off we will go.
Good advice. Thanks.
I believe it’s time for a Fat Yak pale ale… and more pictures of hot big breasted women on TBP…
LLPOH:
I didn’t mean it to be taken quite so literally. It’s just such a long and serious list.
I understand about caring for kids and working and family things.
I don’t keep a list, but if I did Love and Fun and Laughter would be at the top.
They work great with kids and work…also with wasting time.
Hope you have a fun vacation – and hope you leave the list home.
Dammit, llpoh, I was hoping for a scathing argument about the virtues of crime and punishment, the death of morality and to quote up and down how the system has been rigged to bilk the hard-working…
Yet I respect your list, as I feel most of it is noble.
A real list of the ideal…
I have my difference in opinion, based on how people behave… inconsequential.
I don’t see your list as being valued or rewarded… even actively punished… by society.
I really want to argue. Really. You up?
Colma – I am up. Quietly munching popcorn and Admin do battle with SSS. SSS is trying to fight Marquis rules but admin keeps dragging him out to the street. Glad I am a spectator, as I am am worn out, for the moment, fighting too many battles on too many fronts.
Fuck it, man, I’m worn out too. Drinking a glass of cheap ass wine… I missed a couple dumb questions on a test… still an “A” but I fucking hate slipping on stupid shit. Wrote a massive term paper this weekend and it’s weird: I always get euphoric and upitty when I blast a huge paper out.
I opened the laptop and saw Davos under the name… wordpress will let you know who’s lurking and typing not logged in. Hope he cooled down because I kinda like the dude.
I kinda like unions too, if they realize where their bread is buttered. I lament their acceptance of global markets. It’s a corporate shield v corporate shield argument for me, on a philosophical level.
I think it’s high time the ships from china sit full at port.
I’ll check the Admin v SSS…
I love it when the Big Dogs give him a hard time.
Keep up the good work Colma. Gotta get some rest. Bad wine is better than no wine.
I have to say I am with Stucky in regards to letter writing. Other than that, I think I believe in all of those things too.
Good list, LLPOH.
If you are a capitalist (“- in Capitalism”), then you believe in the free market (the really free market) deciding on the best allocation of Capital to produce a good or service. Therefore, is it not a contradiction to defend “Buying American”? Or do you honestly believe that a gas-guzzler Humvee is the best allocation of Capital (State-funded by Mr Bush) to build a car…?
Greetings from sunny Portugal
LLPOH
Form the looks of your list your a fucking Saint already.
I believe that regardless of what anyone believes we are all doomed. And pretty soon too.
I believe I’ll go fishing and not worry one bit about what I believe.
Admin is razor sharp. Ivy League Dartmouth, “we don’t any stinking God”.