I’m loving this open thread concept. Since it’s Friday, I figured I’d pick a non-controversial subject matter. This should be good. I predict 354 comments.
9/11 – INSIDE JOB? – OPEN THREAD
I’m loving this open thread concept. Since it’s Friday, I figured I’d pick a non-controversial subject matter. This should be good. I predict 354 comments.
Fortune Mag; The Philadelphia Story “Smart City..economic activity is abuzz in historic Philladelphia, home to a fast growing highly-skilled labor pool.
After reading all your wonderful rants about the bulk of Philly’s rundown areas. I read the advertising story in Fortune twice to make sure I didn’t miss anything. It appears that the city may finally be getting it? “We offer an ideal environment for COE’s and entrepreneurs.” (Mayor Nutter). Seems the city is growing again for the first time since 1950. They have taken steps to be more business friendly, several investments have been made in/by the 101 upper learning institutions. New investments in the two waterfronts, Glaxo smith’s new headquarters, dramatic 4 year old new skyscraper downtown, Comcast center VP says, “being located in a city of vibrancy..enables us to attract and retain talent”.
Supposedly the keys to this are the location, intl Airport, relatively inexpensive labor costs and lower, real estate costs, high quality of life?, all of this attracts a younger workforce. New zoning laws, no business license fees, new companies exempt from taxes for 2 years…”companies are finding what they need in a city that’s accustomed to fostering durable enterprises and reinventing itself.”
In conclusion ” Philadelphia’s long history has seen industries come and go, but its essential assets have done more than endure. They are shinning anew as a rising generation claims the best of what urban America has to offer. That’s no fad, but rather a formula for a bright future”
Is this just a bunch of flashy marketing? I use Philly, Cleveland, Detroit, Cinncy as cities that have devolved due to decades of democratic leadership and socialism that runs out of producer’s money. Sounds like Philly may be getting it and trying to draw more businesses in?
Maybe you can check it out and advise if this is real or not?
Good Work,
SteveO
To “Pete,” my Internet stalker of countless names-
Thanks for posting this link to prior comments by me on 9/11 “truth”:
http://thedailynewsonline.com/opinion/article_4d828b2a-b186-11e1-8114-001a4bcf887a.html
Here’s another link to recent comments I’ve made on the WTC hi-rise collapses of 9/11:
Once again, I’m not the topic here, and unlike you, I really am interested in a full investigation of the collapses, and have repeatedly suggested that your 9/11 “truth movement” demonstrate on video how to cut steel columns with explosives, incendiaries, nukes, space beams, or whatever else they can dream up. Since you seem to be a bit short on knowledge, Section 2.4.4 in NCSTAR 1-9, based on the 1985 Cantor S drawings and a number of other reliable sources, shows that the 24 core columns in the original WTC 7 were W14 X 730s, and that the ones in the lower floor levels(shown in Fig. 2-23) were either reinforced with heavy steel plates welded across their flanges, or with even heavier steel plates welded between them. A W14 X 730 with none of these continuous reinforcing plates weighs 730# per lineal foot, measures 22.42″ in depth, has a 215 sq. in. cross-sectional area, a web thickness of 3.070″, and 2 flanges that are 4.91″ thick by 17.89″ wide. To put this into even better perspective for you, here’s one being cut the way it’s typically done in a fabricating shop:
As the video indicates, it took ~7 minutes and 32 seconds with a large band saw and an abundant supply of water.
If you share my interest in the truth, please urge Box Boy and his “800 engineers” to stand up some of these WF sections and show us how they were secretly cut in NYC on 9/11. There’s no need to cut 24 of them multiple times simultaneously in one or two seconds, along with the 57 WTC 7 perimeter columns that were a mere 500# per foot; just a few would demonstrate their credibility. They’re apparently too stupid to do their own ANSYS and LS-DYNA modeling, even with the data spoon-fed to them by NIST, so they should have plenty of time to produce this enlightening video.
If they could be forced to do it, we’d never hear another peep out of them…
“eloquent writing style and syntax are a rarity to encounter here” —- SAH
“TBP attracts a more intelligent type of person than Walmart does, and sadly that still means mostly idiots” —- SAH
“I prefer the intellectual company of the great thinkers” —- SAH
“ I’ll leave off with that, and continue to read, learn, and form opinions on my own as I always have …. with that, I’m out … fare thee well …” —- SAH
“To the rest of you – fuck you, you blind morons” —- SAH
======= =
I thought you left. It sure would be nice if you kept your word.
Albury Smith
Thank you for being a voice of reason in the wilderness.
I’d like to ask you two personal questions;
1) Have you ever convinced a Truther to even say, “Hey, I might be wrong?”
2) If not, where do you find the strength to continue what seems to be a fruitless task?
@Stucky if I leave, who will you beat off to? Oh, I forgot, you prefer simian penis to actual women.
Iron smelters dont use Kerosene to melt steel. Why? Because it doesnt burn hot enough. See all that black smoke? That means the jet fuel is starved for oxygen and is burning cool. The exhaust coming out the back of a jet engine gets up to around 1, 1000 degrees, at MAX power an engine pressure ration (EPR) of 100% or more, and doesnt shoot out a black plume because oxygen is being pumped in by rows of compressor. Yes, you can melt the blades in a turbine engine if you run it a high EPR for an extended period of time. But you cant melt an iron beam without something forcing large amounts of oxygen into the fire. There just isnt anything in the WTC to do that.
SAH
I know Smokey, and you’re no Smokey. Nice try, though.
SAH
You might consider wandering over to the evolution thread.
Didn’t you say your parents were …. old aging hippy boomers who became Jesus Freaks?
I imagine you’d have some tremendous words of wisdom to share. (Warning: We just might be on the same side of the issue, though.)
@Stucky – I was disheartened by the ratio of idiots to intelligent people here… And then I realized, at least 85% of the idiots are YOU and your multiple personalities.
Speaking of Smokey, too bad he’s the one expiring instead of you. TBP and the world would be a much nicer place.
Good morning!
Look at that…. the gloves are on the mat.
Kick him in the nuts! Kick him in the nuts!
“Speaking of Smokey, too bad he’s the one expiring instead of you.”
Very classy. Pure class.
You wouldn’t like Smokey either. He used foul language and often didn’t use the “style and syntax” that would have met your approval. Plus, he was a Boomer … the very people you want dead asap. Plus he spoke highly of his parents … while you are on record as utterly despising yours.
He would have told you to suck on his 12 inch pythom so that he could spill baby batter all over your face. On the plus side of the ledger, you would have liked that, based on your own claim to willingly spread ’em for just about anybody.
PS — that’s why I would never jerk off with you in mind. Your crab and puss infested snatch just doesn’t do it for me.
Jet:
Could you please link me to any NIST WTC collapse hypothesis that includes the melting of steel? Do you suppose that an ~80% loss of yield strength at 600C, a very common office fire temperature, just might account for the structural collapse of a steel-framed building?
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/firesafetyengineering%26theperformanceofst
Your claim that black smoke = cool fire is similarly misguided:
http://www.911myths.com/html/black_smoke.html
(See photos)
Albury Smith
I hope you’ve found a home here at TBP. I like your style. Your opponents are over in a corner sucking their thumbs and muttering to themselves.
Don’t worry about getting banned from my site.
Stuckey:
I’ve never actually had a troofer say “Hey, I might be wrong” in so many words, but having all of my comments blocked at most of their “forums” is a close equivalent. Loose Change immediately banned me the first day I tried to post there, simply for asking someone who’d just lied about Silverstein’s PBS quote why his 12 different insurance companies, at least 4 of which are foreign-based (2 in Zurich, 1 in Copenhagen, 1 in London), all paid him a total of $4.68 billion if he publicly admitted to blowing up his property. My question wasn’t deemed “sincere enough” by the moderator, who proudly announced to his sheep that he had no choice but to ban me.
These sadly misguided and/or grossly dishonest people really piss me off, and I do it to counter the ridiculous crap they spread on the Internet.
@SAH – thank you.
When I came to the conclusion that the official version couldn’t be true it was traumatic – the implications ran far and deep and it took the wind out my sails for while.
When 9/11 occurred I was as horrified as anyone at the brutality but not particularly shocked – and that sentiment in and of itself was enough to draw out the name calling and censure.
By having some understanding and appreciation of the geopolitics and history in the Middle East the “official version” made sense – but even then there were those that conflated that understanding with approval and I learned quickly to keep even those thoughts to myself.
Maybe because I was so late in realizing how wrong I was – and coming at it through the financial crisis – it came as a shock to see the infighting, the rhetoric, the emotional demagoguery and the ridicule.
I find the back-and-forth draining – both sides have evidence and experts – facts and fantasy- enough to make anyone feel overwhelmed and wishing to go back to sleep.
But when I strip away the emotions and beliefs I get to a place that says we could have done it – that level of organization, complexity and secrecy is possible.
And then I get to place of “would we do it?” – and again – after stripping out the emotions and beliefs and looking back on what’s been done before I get to yes.
And then I get to the place of realizing there are individuals who decided they should do it.
@Sticky – of course the Boomer Smokey spoke hight of his parents, they were obviously Nomads or Heroes, aka the generations who protect and sacrifice to give their children a good life.
It seems clear that you are obsessed with me, hang on my every word, and consistantly refer to my vagina via each of your identities. Get it through your sick, senile skull – I’m not interested in your or any of your imbecilic identities or what you have to say.
@INTJ – you’re welcome, hope you keep posting. I appreciate anyone who can write well, and present a logical argument. I don’t have to agree, but I enjoy hearing both sides to any issue, especially the best arguments for each side. Yours were the best Truther comments, and for that you deserve much credit.
INTJ _4_Truth:
Your grasp of science is pathetic, but do you have any thoughts on why al Qaeda needs your “truth movement” to deny that they were behind 9/11 and other suicide attacks on innocent people? They haven’t in more than a decade, nor has any Arab government in the world. The Azzams and al Zawahiris (Ayman al Zawahiri’s parents) are 2 of the most influential families in Egypt, and the bin Ladens are one of the wealthiest families in SA, so are they just too bashful to go to the media and defend their relatives, whose lives are/were threatened by the strongest military in the world?
2 minute video showing smoke and heat damage (or lack of it) on the left side of the Pentagon hole. When you consider the fuel that was on that plane, how is it that possible?
SSS – I’m still waiting for my question to be answered. You said Albury Smith “sure knows what he’s talking about”. You’d have to be an expert to know this.
My question again: Are you a structural engineer?
“Summarizing:
We have assumed that the entire 3,500 gallons of jet fuel was confined to just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with perfect efficency, that no hot gases left this floor, that no heat escaped this floor by conduction and that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat.
Then it is impossible that the jet fuel, by itself, raised the temperature of this floor more than 257° C (495° F).
Now this temperature is nowhere near high enough to even begin explaining the World Trade Center Tower collapse.
It is not even close to the first critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F) where steel loses about half its strength and it is nowhere near the quotes of 1500° C that we constantly read about in our lying media.
“In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments.”
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/how-hot.htm
backwardsevolution
Did you know I called my husband Ted Olson, Solicitor General of the U.S., on my cell phone and told him American Airlines Flight 77 had been hijacked and was flying low over houses?
Where did Flight 77 go?
Where am I?
Administrator –
“Albury Smith
I hope you’ve found a home here at TBP. I like your style. Your opponents are over in a corner sucking their thumbs and muttering to themselves.
Don’t worry about getting banned from my site.”
To tell you the truth, I’m shaking my head in utter disbelief at that comment. People who suck their thumbs don’t want to see reality. Thumb suckers are people who know things don’t add up, but don’t have the balls to step up to the plate, so they suck instead.
Administrator, being someone who holds truth above everything else (correct me if I’m wrong), you no doubt would wish for a complete investigation into 9/11, or is it your opinion that we had one?
SSS – still waiting for your answer: are you a structural engineer?
I think we can all agree there are too many unanswered questions and inconsistencies. Let’s have a “complete” investigation, not a whitewash. What are you so afraid of?
I don’t recall saying al Qaeda didn’t play a role in 9/11.
I don’t recall giving scientific data.
I don’t recall saying the various hijackers accused weren’t involved.
Dear 9-11 Truther,
EVERY building demolition is brought down …. wait for it ….. the bottom floors first. This is done in order for gravity to do most of the work, not the detonations.
The towers came down top to bottom … a feat never done before, or since because, well, it simply wouldn’t work.
How do you explain this?
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He said / She said.
Both sides have a version of reality – now someone will present something that purportedly discredits either the person or the statement.
Not all 9-11 Truth has yet been explored.
I think this one has potential
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Actual 9-11 Truther and his logic
1) Sees airplane hit building
2) Shortly after, building falls down.
3) Magic thermite did it!
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In an appeal to ridicule, a person belittles a claim by suggesting that it is absurd. The mockery of the claim, in theory, reduces its power. However, an appeal to ridicule does not take the form of a valid or useful argument, because it brings no new information or concrete discussion into the debate. There are numerous examples of an appeal to ridicule, but they all more or less take the form of “X is foolish, therefore x is false.” Often, an appeal to ridicule utilizes a straw man, a weak argument created by the opposition and attributed to the defense. A straw man is easy to debunk for the opposition, and an unwary defender may not be aware of how his or her words or position were twisted to create a straw man.
INTJ – wow, great link re the cell phones. I had never read that before.
“By finally settling on this story, Olson avoided a technological pitfall. Given the cell phone system employed in 2001, high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners were impossible, or at least virtually so (Olson’s statement that “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well” was a considerable understatement). The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004. […]
A 9/11 researcher, knowing that AA Flight 77 was a Boeing 757, noticed that AA’s website indicated that its 757s do not have passenger-seat phones. After he wrote to ask if that had been the case on September 11, 2001, an AA customer service representative replied: “That is correct; we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.”
Too many questions unanswered. INTJ, must be our intuitive nature that makes us see the subtle things that others don’t, makes us question when others are satisfied with the official story.
Barbara asks a simple question and you retards respond with another bullshit link which is debunked by this link:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77_Calls
Enough with the fucking links. Think for yourselves you retards.
WHERE IS FLIGHT 77 IF IT DID NOT CRASH INTO THE PENTAGON??????
No links. Answer the fucking question. Where is Barbara Olson? Where are the other passengers that were on that flight.
This thoroughly discredits Griffin personally, INTJ _4_”Truth”:
http://www.jod911.com/There_Are_No_Missile_Defenses_at_the_Pentagon.pdf
and Mark Roberts’ compilation of facts and real evidence discredits his “no-plane” bunk:
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
Claiming that Ted Olson’s account was “the only evidence that American 77 was aloft after it had disappeared from FAA radar around 9:00 AM” is stupid and contemptible.
He said – she said.
It will never end – we are still arguing about what happened to JFK.
Truther Retards (lol, great name)
I have it on good authority that Barbara Olson is actually backwardsevolution.
I have til now studiously avoided this thread. Wish I had continued. Ratio of nutjobs is too high. Z takes on SSS and gets a cruise missile pounded up his ass.
Personally, I think Z should inherit DaveL’s crown of resident dumbfuck. He has more bases covered in dumbfuckedness.
The Cardington frame had no spans greater than 30′, INTJ _4_”Truth,” and was completely symmetrical. The 44-79 girder in WTC 7 was ~47′ long, and the 5 nearly perpendicular beams intersecting it from the east were ~52′ long. The only beam opposing them from the west intersected the girder at <20 degrees. All of the Cardington connections were full moment, and all of the interior connections in WTC 7 were simple gravity. To people who know what they're talking about, those are huge differences.
Since you cited the Cardington tests, please feel free to list all of the researchers involved in them who agree with you.
I am going to compile a list of all the nutjobs and send it off to the Nigerian scammers. It will prevent them from having to spam millions and will allow them to specifically target retards. It will save the rest of us a lot of time filtering emails.
For non-Truthers only. (i.e., Normal People)
Loose Change. It’s the Holy Grail video that started all the Truthers on their way to tin foil Nirvana.
Yeah … the video that was produced by two 20-somethings with no education, no expertise in anything and who according to their own admission started the project as a fiction, and then only later made it a “documentary” when they realized they could make money off it. Yeah, that one.
Just now found an awesome resource. It’s a Viewers Guide that debunks the Loose Change crackpots comment by comment. Very thorough, long, lots of references.
Online version
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/introduction.html
Download-able Word Version (146 pages … I told you it was comprehensive!)
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/911_loose_change_2_guide_1.doc
Lurkers – question what happened. Dismiss the people who might call you “nutjobs” or “truther retards”. People who call others names are weak, period. They are not interested in the truth, but interested in hiding it.
Why are they interested in hiding it? Who are these people and how do they benefit?
SSS – still waiting for an answer to my question posted above.
I don’t recall citing the “cardington” tests.
Like I said earlier, there are enough experts, papers, professionals, websites etc. to make ones head spin but the name calling, ridicule and hostility never ceases to amaze me.
Lurkers
Ignore backwardsevolution and INTJ _4_Truth.
They are only interested in the truth ……. THEIR “truth”.
You really do have it backwards, ev. Before you “question what happened,” you should read and understand the results of the investigations already conducted, and question the absurdities spouted by Griffin, Gage, and the other charlatans of the 9/11 “truth” industry. Some knowledge of fundamental scientific principles would help too.
If you “don’t recall citing the ‘cardington’ [sic] tests,” INTJ _4_”Truth,” I must’ve confused you with backwards ev, another equally hopeless cause on here. My bad.
How come you dumbass truthers continue to post links to “experts” and haven’t answered the simple fucking question?
Where did Flight 77 go?
Where am I and the rest of the passengers?
Let’s even hear a fucking theory. Anything!!!!!
Sound of crickets from you nutjobs.
You fuckers are delusional.
Stucky – “Ignore backwardsevolution and INTJ _4_Truth. They are only interested in the truth ……. THEIR “truth”.
No, I don’t have the truth, just a lot of unanswered questions. You don’t have the truth either. Only a full and complete investigation would give us that.
What are you so afraid of? The truth?
“John Farmer, Jr., senior counsel to the Commission stated that the Commission “discovered that…what government and military officials had told Congress, the Commission, the media, and the public about who knew what when — was almost entirely, and inexplicably, untrue.” Farmer continues: “At some level of the government, at some point in time … there was a decision not to tell the truth about what happened…The (NORAD) tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public.”[22] Thomas Kean, the head of the 9/11 Commission, concurred: “We to this day don’t know why NORAD told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth.”[23]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission
So why are you so afraid of the truth coming out? How do you benefit by it not coming out?
Stucky – Just now found an awesome resource. It’s a Viewers Guide that debunks the Loose Change crackpots comment by comment. Very thorough, long, lots of references.
Online version http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/introduction.html
That is the same site I posted for your review on earlier on this thread 1st September 2012 at 1:21 pm.
Your response – I’m not so sure that website does “serious” research. From their website FAQ.
“could have”, “might have” ….. that’s not serious research. They tackle a very serious question with pure speculation. And the answers are quite laughable.
What is going on here?
Paul Craig Roberts’ critique of John Farmer’s book entitled “The Ground Truth: The Untold Story of America Under Attack on 9/11”:
“Farmer has no way of knowing what happened on 9/11 or who did it.
What he does know and has figured out is that the 9/11 Commission
was lied to by people who were supposed to be helping the Commission
deliver the truth to the public.
Whether the lies were big or little, whether the lies were told to coverup
a false flag operation or to cover the butts of agencies that had failed
in their responsibilities, whether Farmer’s explanations for the lies are
correct or incorrect, the fact remains that the Commission was misled.
The conclusion to be drawn is that the Commission’s report is unreliable
and, therefore, that we do not have the truth about 9/11.
That this conclusion comes from the legal counsel to the Commission is
compelling evidence that a new investigation is required.”
Paul Craig Roberts was the former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Ronald Reagan and writes his own blog. John Farmer, Jr. was the senior counsel (lawyer) – the senior counsel – for the 9/11 Commission.
Imagine the senior counsel saying that the Commission was lied to! Makes anyone with two brain cells wonder, doesn’t it?
I only got 2 thumbs up for posting a link to this informative web site and you got an amazing 10 thumbs up for debunking something that had previously been debunked. Anyway glad you found the site.
Still waiting for one of you truthers to tell us where American Airlines Flight 77 is?
Please enlighten us.
You must have a link to some crazy ass website that will reveal that Flight 77 never existed.
Maybe it got lost in the Bermuda Triangle or is being kept at Area 51 with the alien spaceships.
“That is the same site I posted for your review on earlier on this thread 1st September 2012 at 1:21 pm. Your response – I’m not so sure that website does “serious” research. From their website FAQ.”
Holy shit! Really. That fuckin’ insane, on my part. Krist. I don’t believe it.
What might have happened …. I quick went to, clicked on something, saw what I thought was -pro-911 horseshit, and left.
I am ALWAYS game for an anti-Wingnut site.
Sound of Crickets – “Still waiting for one of you truthers to tell us where American Airlines Flight 77 is?Please enlighten us.”
Only a full and complete investigation will enlighten us. Bring it on!
SSS – sound of crickets.