The Do gooders in this country love wars.
War on Poverty
War on Drugs
War on Terrorism
Now the War on Guns
What could possibly go wrong?
Enough already!!!!
WAR ON DRUGS IS LOST – TIME TO SURRENDER
The Do gooders in this country love wars.
War on Poverty
War on Drugs
War on Terrorism
Now the War on Guns
What could possibly go wrong?
Enough already!!!!
What’s a “non-violent drug offender”? This Edward Bernays propoganda film clip never defines the term.
The do gooder fucks love to spend other people’s money to fight these wars:
War on poverty: $16 trillion and counting.
War on drugs: $1.093 trillion (see http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock)
War on terror: $1.411 trillion (see http://costofwar.com/)
War on guns: our second amendment rights
More people in jail than any other nation. These pointless wars, all of them, have imprisoned and enslaved (or killed) millions of people. The 100 million on welfare are slaves and parasites, living off other people, money redistributed from those that work. Some states have more people getting government money than paying taxes. This is all madness and insanity, and won’t last.
The war on drugs and terror has resulted in a police and surveillance state. As long as the criminals politicians can dream up more wars, they can steal more of your money. That’s the point isn’t it?
There is no War on Drugs. It’s a fucking left-wing political fantasy started by Richard Nixon and accentuated by Nancy Reagan.
I’m starting a War on Murder. Please send donations to Admin. I’m sure we’ll beat this monster into the dust.
“The war on drugs and terror has resulted in a police and surveillance state.”
—-AWD
Half right.
You can’t keep drugs out of prisons! Think that through.
We are all suspects until proven not one by a search of our pee, blood and hair.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/
So declare a war on congress? They seem to have one going against americans.
Imagine what could have been done if instead of pissing the 16 trillion away as handouts, it had been used to build infrastructure, or invested in research. That is 16,000 billion dollars. There would not ow be a deficit. The US would be the envy of the entire world – full employment would exist, in the most high tech and skilled jobs imaginable.
But know. Instead, 16 trillion was spent on Kentucky Fried Kidney and pissed up against the wall. Just fucking magnificent.
“You can’t keep drugs out of prisons! Think that through.”
—-biggtmofo
Well, you can’t keep murder out of prisons. Or rape. Or robbery. Or assault. Think that through, dumbfuck.
Don’t forget the war on virginity.
The distinction you fail to make, SSS, between murder, rape, and robbery on the one hand, and drug use on the other, is that the former involves a victim, the latter is between consenting buyers and sellers. The buyers are ingesting these substances into their own bodies. There is no crime (properly understood), because there is no victim.
Simply put, using the criminal justice system to punish people for what they do to themselves is incredibly stupid and self-defeating. We’ve got a 40-year drug war and the abysmal failure of alcohol prohibition from the 1920s as evidence.
The distinction YOU fail to make, Steve Hogan, is that drug trafficking is not a benign, victimless business involving merely a buyer and seller. What la-la universe do you live in?
Millions of people who BUY drugs are criminals who rob and steal, and sometimes murder, to feed their drug habit. That’s a fucking, quantifiable fact. Now, are you still suggesting that there are no victims of these crimes?
Illegal drugs cost money. A lot of money to the user. Period. Make them legal, and they STILL will cost money. A lot of money to the user. Period.
Your turn, Stevie.
Well, you can’t keep murder out of prisons. Or rape. Or robbery. Or assault. Think that through, dumbfuck. _SSS
All of the elements for the crimes you mention are already within the prison walls.
In the case of drugs, they come from the outside somehow, through the prison gate.
Different discussion.
SSS,
The crimes committed to feed one’s drug habits are the predictable result of making illegal something people want and are willing to buy regardless of laws. Black markets arise, profits soar, and those willing to kill will do so to protect those profits. The violence you decry is a direct result of the prohibition you support. Cognitive dissonance, SSS?
Ever heard of Al Capone? He made a fortune getting alcohol to people during prohibition. When booze was legalized, the mob had to find other sources of income, because the insane profits vanished. This ain’t rocket science, pal. Or is basic economics a blind spot for you?
It isn’t that illegal drugs cost money, it’s that they cost a LOT more money BECAUSE they are illegal.
For an avid drug warrior like you, SSS, I wonder just how long you’re willing to see the war last before you decide you are wrong. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.
we already did the experiment, and the data is irrefutable.
alcohol was much more expensive for the buyer during prohibition, than before or after.
legal alcohol–cheap. illegal alcohol–expensive.
and, with the end of prohibition, all that organized crime associated with booze just went away, right?
oh my goodness! the crime did not disappear!
it moved to heroin, prostitution and gambling! imagine that–other activity that is fucking stupid for government to try to make illegal became the new refuge of crime.
but this simple, clear historical set of facts still eludes so many. shame.
“Millions of people who BUY drugs are criminals who rob and steal, and sometimes murder, to feed their drug habit. That’s a fucking, quantifiable fact. Now, are you still suggesting that there are no victims of these crimes?”
Other millions of people who buy and use drugs DON’T steal. But they still end up in jail.
And the system we have now actually exacerbates the killing and hardcore criminal activity, because it allows the cartels to become as rich as principalities.
SSS, the reason drug trafficking is so profitable is because it is illegal. because the profits are so great and it is illegal, the “business men” operating in it negotiate with guns.
cigarettes and alcohol cost money too, if they were illegal then people would be operating black markets to provide them to customers and all the things that go on with drugs would also exist for cigs and booze.
Designer drugs like meth and E come out because weed, cocaine and heroine were made illegal.
if it’s legal, more people would provide it and the costs would go down because of the increased competition. And because if it was legal business transactions would be safer and legitimate. The profit margins would go down so that doing it illegally wouldn’t be worth it. Criminals would simply move into moving some other illegal product that has a strong demand but operates within a black market due to perpetual governmental stupidity.
Acting aggressively to stop a person from doing something to themselves that does not infringe on someone else’s rights is a criminal act. In the “War on (Some) Drugs” the criminals are the govt enforcement agencies and lawmakers who try to limit what people put into their bodies.
Crazyivan said, “All of the elements for the crimes you mention are already within the prison walls. In the case of drugs, they come from the outside somehow, through the prison gate. Different discussion.”
Bullshit. Not a different discussion. Many prison murders are contract hit jobs that come from outside prison walls for completely different reasons unrelated to drugs. Same with robbery and assaults. Ever hear of payback for being a snitch, crazy? Or for fucking up a botched robbery?
Jesus, the number of naive people on this site who open mouth and insert foot is unbelievable.
Naive? What could be more naive than someone advocating a policy that’s been in place since 1971 without a hint of success?
Admin
You dirty rat. You posted this just to piss off SSS. Fess up, rat!
SSS has received an epic beatdown that should go into the TBP Hall of Shame.
SSS
Please keep posting. With just a tad bit of effort, I believe you’ll be able to gather in 100 Thumbs Down.
You’re even starting to win me over with your anti-drug stance. Not only do we need more laws, we need tougher laws. Drug users must get Life in prison. Drug sellers must be Executed. Show ’em we mean business!! That’s how you win a war.
Damn, the predictable shit-on-SSS crowd on legalizing drugs shows up again. Different screen names – biggtmofo, Steve Hogan, Eddie, howard in nyc, crazy, and harry p – but the same fucking tired arguments. Harry p wins with his stupid Nobel Prize winning award on economic analysis of legalizing drugs, endorsed by Paul Krugman.
You fucking idiots show up on this site lamenting that this country is going into the shitter, and yet you are willing to take a big dump and flush the toilet. You puff up your chests to show what “pure” libertarians you are. No, I’m not going down that road. Ever.
Do you realize how fucking whacko you sound? “Let’s balance the budget and legalize meth.” Jesus Christ, pick your fucking battles.
You site stats that say the War on Drugs has cost $1 trillion dollars, but fail to mention that is the 40-year cost. Yet you, none of you, fail to mention ANY detailed information, which I have repeatedly done on this site, on how to reduce the defense budget by hundreds of billions of dollars. None of you. But I have. Practical, doable, sensible solutions.
Try it sometime. Instead of your dipshit drug focus.
“Bullshit. Not a different discussion. Many prison murders are contract hit jobs that come from outside prison walls for completely different reasons unrelated to drugs. Same with robbery and assaults. Ever hear of payback for being a snitch, crazy? Or for fucking up a botched robbery?” -SSS
All I was trying to say was that what happens inside the gates and what happens outside the gates does seem to breach the gates. That was my topic of different discussion. I find it interesting to hear how the gates are breached, for personal reasons.
Stucky
You are hereby the recipient of my coveted “Fuck you and the horse you rode in on” award. You can now join the ranks of DENSE DUDES I listed above.
SSS, you and your stupid drug war are infinitely more tiresome than the arguments against it. The policy you want has been in place since Tricky Dick was in office. Care to regale us with its successes?
I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t argue about the squandered money, which has been enormous. No one can possibly estimate the treasure wasted on this ludicrous attempt to prevent people from drugging themselves.
Rather, I argue about the loss of liberty as insane zealots like you call for more drug laws, no-knock raids, imprisoning pot-smokers, impoverishing families, stealing from taxpayers to fund the prison-industrial complex, creating inner city war zones, the slaughter of innocent civilians, militarizing local police departments, and the rest.
You are fucking out of your mind. The fact that you can continue to support this asinine attempt to legislate the personal morality of others you’ve never met and will never know can only be chalked up to someone who has lost touch with reality.
Get a grip. The drug war is lost. It was lost the moment they started it.
“Yet you, none of you, fail to mention ANY detailed information, which I have repeatedly done on this site, on how to reduce the defense budget by hundreds of billions of dollars. None of you. But I have. Practical, doable, sensible solution.” SSS
OK, I’m listening SSS, what’s your plan?
I’m really torn on the issue of drugs. I have certainly done more than my share in the past. I can honestly says that I had a FANTASTIC time during those years! I have no regrets at all.
I know from personal experience that responsible people can and do use “illegal drugs” without destroying their lives. I also know from personal experience that a great many more people who use illegal drugs simply descend into a ruinous life that few effectively ever recover from. I do know that the effect of alcohol is far more fucked up that any drug I ever did and there are damn few drugs I did not do.
I don’t have anything to offer in the way of solutions but I am opposed on principal alone to the govt deciding what I can or cannot do.
I_S
“You are fucking out of your mind.”
—-Steve Hogan @ SSS
That’s one of my better qualities.
“OK, I’m listening SSS, what’s your plan?” (referring to defense cuts)
—-crazyivan @ SSS
I’ve listed extensive and detailed cuts to nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers, foreign basing and so on. I’ve also listed cuts to the F-35 program. I think my best contribution is pinpointing future defense posture, which will save trillions. I am a Ron Paul supporter on defense.
Not a good answer, but I’m playing golf tomorrow, and I need my sleep in order to hit some really bad shots.
SSS – drugs would be a fraction of the cost they are now if they were legal. For instance, pot is a damn weed. No one would pay more than very little as they could throw seeds around and have more than they could ever use.
Narcotics prices would fall – poppies are easy to grow. Cocaine prices would plummet. Cocaine literally grows on trees.
The only way they would be costly is if the government taxed it. Which I am sure they would – they couldn’t help themselves. Then they would need a police force of some kind to make sure the taxes are collected, just as they do for now for alcohol and tobacco – the ATF.
But there would be an explosion in users. I had a coke user tell me once that the best thing about coke was that it was so expensive, otherwise he would kill himself snorting massive quantities of it.
No good answer.
Well, SSS, I am in good company.
StuchenDense
When the ‘cold war’ ended, the military industrial complex would have had to be downsized drastically, cutting the gravy to too many of the elite. So, the ‘war on drugs’ was created to sell weapons and ammo. That was not profitable enough so the ‘war on terror’ was devised and that one is forever. The addiction to profits by the MIC will keep it going until the patient (the US) is dead.
America cannot and never could survive as a capitalist democracy without war and killing. The Us was founded in blood and we kept it flowing somewhere in the world right up until this minute. That most of the world now hates the Us, is not unexpected. And, yes, they do. Those who don’t will soon change their minds as they too are stabbed in the back one way or another to keep the American Banana Republic going a bit longer.
Swing well tomorrow sss. you are reluctantly loved around here
“Damn, the predictable shit-on-SSS crowd on legalizing drugs shows up again. Different screen names – biggtmofo, Steve Hogan, Eddie, howard in nyc, crazy, and harry p – but the same fucking tired arguments” ———— SSS
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The real reason SSS hates drugs: fewer opportunities to Choke His Chicken
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StuchenDense new anti-drug campaign
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The biggest problem this country faces is the Debt
.
Therefore I propose we have a WAR ON DEBT..
And to show we’re serious in fighting this War on Debt we need to have an unlimited budget in order to win this war.
BTW: I just read yesterday that the US consumes 40% of the world’s prescription drugs. That doesn’t sound bad except, we are about 4% of the world’s population.
Then there is the $70+ billion in recreational drugs annually and the many billions in alcohol and tobacco, and…
Where do YOU want to be when the SHTF and all of these disappear? Whew! Zombie Nation will not begin to describe the withdrawal pains in America. lol.
The real problem is that the bankers and powerful government people are the drug trade and the cartels their rough and rowdy partners. That is why the war on drugs will never be won no matter what.
Does anyone really think we could not wipe out the opium supply in Afghanistan if we wanted to. Hell no….we guard it. The most dangerous drugs in the world are peddled by our red white and blue dope dealing government and dark evil bankers. They are the top Dog Drug Kingpins not the Cartels. The Cartels are their bitch’s
The war on drugs is nothing more than a business plan designed to maintain profits.
We are doomed.
An 18 hour acid trip when I was 19 or 20 was a wonderful experience. I would be afraid to attempt that again, at my age. After 35 years, I still remember most of it. I recommend it to everyone to undertake at least once, except for those that have deep seated self-hatred. It was a journey of self-discovery. Plus, it’s pretty hard to beat sitting in the shade next to a beached fishing boat, watching a debate between the boat and the ocean as who whose fault it was that it ended up there.
Steve Hogan -. Care to regale us with its successes?
The drug war been very,very good for the SSS bank account …golf anyone?
SSS, throwing a Krugman-esque insult out there? nice buddy. So the likely economic outline I described isn’t what happened with alcohol after prohbition ended? Please enlighten me on your revised version of history.
A more krugman like idea would be to make more things illegal so we could lower unemployment by hiring more stormtroopers to keep people off the dangerous drugs (the ones that don’t have lobbyists).
Bottom line is the argument to make/keep drugs illegal is morally wrong. The idea that you or anyone else can decree what another person is allowed to do with or to their body violates a person’s sovereignty. You have zero moral footing using aggressive violence to keep people from “doing” drugs as long as they are aggressing against people. There are already laws against robbery, murder and fraud. Tryinig to stop peopel from committing those acts by outlawing a plant is like trying to stop murder by outlawing guns.
The idea that you or some govt entity should be able to limit what a person can peacefully do puts you in the company of sociopaths like Hitler, Stalin, Lincoln and Obama on this issue.
A rerun, love it.
An all-time personal best. 9 straight pink screens on my comments, including 2 shutouts, 0-13 and 0-16, the latter of which achieved the coveted “hidden due to low comment rating.” Plus a recommendation that my performance is worthy of the TBP Hall of Shame.
Match THAT, bitchez!!!!
SSS
You’re at 94 thumbs down. One more post by you should do it.
Sorry SSS but I had you give you thumbs up on the “bitchez” comment. Funny shit! Up or down……keep swinging for the fences!
I_S
I_S
If you come onto this site with some of my views and don’t bring a sense of humor, you’re toast. Plus I’m now up to TWO comments hidden due to low rating. Heh.
And to think I didn’t even mention some of my best arguments, such as what to do about the three (not one, not two, but three) international treaties the USG has signed which have outlawed certain drugs, including marijuana. The pro-legalization dipshits have NEVER countered that one with anything rational or politically feasible. Never. The reason? It makes them think too hard, and that gives them a migraine.
I’m declaring victory and taking my ball and bat home.
SSS
Didn’t we sign treaties saying we wouldn’t torture people?
Are there treaties dealing with pre-emptive wars on countries that have done nothing?
Are there treaties about killing women and children with predator drones?
Admin
Excellent questions, but completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and nothing more than a red herring. Nice try. Thanks for playing.
SSS
What would be the implications to America if we broke our treaty about drugs?
Would the rest of the world cut off our foreign aid? 🙂
All the War on Drugs has accomplished is to enrich drug cartels and swell the ranks of gang members, while wrecking the lives of non-violent, non-criminal drug users and make us a Gulag Nation with the highest incarceration rates in the world.
I live in Chicago, a place that would be Paradise on Earth were it not for the turf wars fought by street gangs looking to control the drug trade. Gang killings, which are sometimes over a girl, but much more often over prized street corners and alleys, are 95% of the homicides in this city. The drug laws have made these worthless, commonplace substances insanely lucrative and have also given them a “forbidden fruit” aura, just as Prohibition made heavy drinking trendy among segments of the population who weren’t much into it before. Women, for example, didn’t drink much beyond a glass of wine at dinner before Prohibition, but during the roaring 20s, every trendy gal had to have her flask of illicit hootch in her purse, or if you were really cutting edge, strapped to your thigh. This I heard from my grandmother, who was a teen during that period. When liquor was legalized, MJ and other street drugs became trendy, with consequences we have seen, in contrast to the period before the Harrison drug laws, a substantial subset of our population was addicted to opium, yet they managed to refrain from committing vicious crimes to obtain the money to buy the stuff. We did not have widespread crime or familial breakdown due to its prevalence, even though people did sometimes kills themselves on it.
Guess what? If people want to engage in self-destructive behavior, no law will stop them and neither does the law have any right to stop them. People have the natural right to imbibe, ingest, inhale, or inject any substance into their bodies they please, and any attempt to prevent them from exercising their rights will produce results much worse and the damage will be inflicted on many innocent people. The collateral damage from the War on Drugs includes not only the people who’ve caught gang bullets never intended for them, but the people who have to try to live and work in the neighborhoods where this crap is sold and most of all, the youth who become addicted to this stuff because, thanks to Prohibition, we have no sensible regulatory structure that would recognize various levels of impairment and regulate where and to whom this crap is sold. As one police officer put it, as long as this stuff is prohibited, the drug dealers will decide where it is sold and to whom it is sold- and if the dealers decide to sell it to 10 year old kids in a schoolyard, that is who it will be sold to and we have no control over it. We never have and never will.
Worse, our attempts to control it only make the bloodshed worse. Everytime a major busts takes place that results in multiple arrests of gang leaders and seizures of huge quantities of money, drugs, and weapons, people in the neighborhood, including many beat cops, just cringe in dread because they know what is coming next, which is that a gang war will break out over the vacated turf, and there will be no peace on Earth until it is decided who is in control. Rinse, repeat, over and over and over with no discernible effect on the dope traffic, which continues unabated because if morons want to destroy themselves, that is what they will do.
“What would be the implications to America if we broke our treaty about drugs?”
—-Admin
Good question, which would certainly enter the picture in the process of abrogating those treaties. But abrogation itself would be the key issue.
Every treaty has an abrogation clause, which normally kicks in a year AFTER a country announces its intention to abrogate the treaty. In all of our history, the USG has abrogated, to my knowledge, only two treaties, both of which were bilateral and not multi-lateral like the drug treaties.
The first occurred in the late 18th Century when Congress voted to abrogate a bilateral treaty with France. President Adams and the Supreme Court stayed out of it and let the abrogation go unchallenged because France was essentially declaring war on the U.S. by seizing our merchant ships and crews bound for Great Britain.
The second occurred during Jimmy Carter’s presidency when Carter broke diplomatic relations with Formosa (Taiwan) and essentially abrogated a bilateral defense treaty with that country. Senator Barry Goldwater filed suit with the Supreme Court saying Carter did not have the power to do that without the Senate’s consent. The Supreme Court said “It’s not our job to settle this dispute. The Senate should have voted on the abrogation and failed to do its job.”
So the stage is set. Even if he wanted to, Obummer can’t just issue an executive order abrogating the drug treaties because a precedent has been set that two-thirds of the Senate must consent to SIGNING a treaty, as specifically stated in the Constitution, but also must be involved in ABROGATING a treaty with two-thirds majority, or approval from 67 senators.
Now, where are you going to come up with 67 senators voting yes to pull out of the drug treaties in today’s political atmosphere? Answer, you aren’t. Not even Obammy is that friggin’ stupid.
SSS
It’s simple. Executive Order. Who needs Congress?
Doesn’t Congress have to vote for the United States to go to war?
How’s that requirement working out?
SSS hits the magic ONE HUNDRED number!!
Congrats!!
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“It’s simple. Executive Order (to abrogate treaties). Who needs Congress?”
—-Admin
If Obama tried that, knowing there’s legal precedence against it, he’s just given the Republican House excellent grounds for drafting articles of impeachment. He needs that sideshow like a hole in the head, especially when he’s got much bigger fish to fry, like gun control and running the country into bankruptcy.
And how in the fuck did I get 3 thumbs-down for posting comments that cited historical facts that are absolutely indisputable?
SSS
It sounds like my solution is perfect. Drugs are made legal and Obama is impeached.
Who says I never have solutions?