First of all I am an Agnostic, but one who is open to some Christian beliefs. Second, I do NOT want this to become a debate whether or not God exists. So, you rabid atheists can go pound salt. But feel free to participate if you can suspend your disbelief momentarily, and accept the premise, “God is.”
I have pondered the idea of whether or not God blesses nations for decades, even before I wandered away from the faith. What brought the idea back to my mind’s eye more forcibly again was Obama’s recent trip to Israel. He closed his ridiculous pontificating with, “May God bless you. May God bless Israel. May God bless the United States of America”. (To hell with the mooslims, I guess.) Obamadevil calls upon God to bless America constantly. Will God answer, “OK!”?
According to Barna Research about half of all Americans consider themselves “born again”. I know how these people think. They believe God is involved in all things America; from its past glory to its future redemption. Perhaps that’s why we have so many sheeple …. it’s pretty damn easy and convenient to not do anything when you believe that God will sort everything out.
I’m not going to examine the hundreds of applicable scripture verses. (Thank God!!) Just two of the more popular ones will suffice. It sure seems like God, indeed, blesses America.
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“Blessed is the Nation Whose God is the Lord” ———— Psalm 33:12
“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” ———— 2 Chronicles 7:14:
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The other side of the coin question is, “Does God curse nations?” Various born-again preachers have pronounced that God has cursed America for a variety of “sins”. Jerry Falwell said God cursed America because of abortions. Others give popular reasons such as; Sodom and Gomorrah-like promiscuity, taking prayer out of schools, homosexuality, worshipping money, and, well … the list is nearly endless. Like, this one from Pat Robertson, who after Haiti’s devastating earthquake said it was God’s curse on Haiti …. for getting rid of the French!! You can’t make this shit up. (I know for a FACT that God hates Frenchies. It’s in the Bible. One of God’s plagues upon Pharaoh was what? Froggies!!! Case closed. )
“Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French … and they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, ‘We will serve you if you’ll get us free from the French.’ True story. And the devil said, ‘OK, it’s a deal.’ Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another.”
Again …. from the perspective of a non-believer, talk of God cursing or blessing people or nations is absurd. But for genuine Christian believers … (those who believe the Bible) … there is nothing absurd about the idea of God blessing or cursing nations.
Some believe the Founding Fathers established a Christian nation, which God then blessed. For example, John Adams cautioned that our government is wholly inadequate for a people who are not moral and religious. However, the degree of liberty Americans have enjoyed is dependent on a government that treads lightly … not on a certain group of people praying on their knees. Adams believed a government can tread lightly without inviting chaos and license only in a society where the majority of the people obey the law voluntarily, not simply from fear of punishment. His error was that he believed only Christians can obey laws voluntarily because only they are aware of their accountability to a Higher Transcendent Moral Order (God) for the way in which they live their lives.
Even if Adams was right, what does it actually mean to ask God to bless America? What “America”? Is it a piece of geography? If we invade Mexico and basically exterminate them (like we did Native American Indians) does that mean God blessed America … even though most all of Mexico is also Christian? Aren’t we asking God to treat America better than other nations, especially other Christian nations? Why would He do that? On what basis?
I think the story of Sodom & Gomorrah better exemplifies what most Americans think God’s Blessing means. Abraham was able to bargain with God to spare the city. God agreed to spare the city if even only 10 righteous souls were found therein. Archaeological evidence suggests the population to have been around 1,000 souls, give or take a few hundred. So, it’s safe to say God would have spared S&G if the righteous in the city was only 1%. Yes, that is the Christian hope for America. The verse from Chronicles listed above is often used as further proof for it reads … ““If MY people, who are called by MY name …”. You see, it doesn’t matter how many heathens inhabit America. As long as the REAL Christians, even if they number as few as 1%, turn to the Lord we shall all be blessed.
Unfortunately, this belief ignores a pretty major biblical truism; GOD HATES COMPETITION. This pretty much puts the U.S. Constitution at odds with the Biblical command to put God first. We pride ourselves (rightfully so) regarding our religious liberties; Christians, Mooslims, Joos, Buddhists, Satanists, Atheists … ALL are welcomed in this land, a land Christians expect God to bless.
Now put on your thinking caps and recall your Old Testament knowledge. Recall stories such as when the Jews left Egypt and very shortly thereafter worshipped a Golden Calf. Did that please God’s multi-cultural heart, or did he strike dead 3,000 Joos on the spot? Please tell me the number of times God says; “Oh, yeah. You wanna let any religion into the land of Israel? Sure, I’m cool with that!”. Did you come up with …. zero? Good for you. BTW, Jesus was even less tolerant, casting forth curses and promises of hellfire to even Joos who didn’t believe his story. So, people can claim this is a Christian nation until they are blue in the face. But when one looks at the ONLY nation in the Bible ever called “God’s people”, and the requirements thereof, then you will see America is no more Christian than Outer Mongolia, and both nations can expect similar “blessings”. None.
To which a Christian might respond; “Well, so what! Whether or not God blesses nations is irrelevant. God can and will continue to bless ME, no matter where I live!!” I won’t argue with you. I just hope for your sake that you do not equate biblical blessings with American prosperity; your mortgaged house, your cars, your toys, your job, and even your security; do you think God will send down angels to minister to you? Why, you? Wouldn’t God owe an apology to the millions who have died a martyrs’ death? So, as God looked down as Roman lions ripped into the flesh of a first century Christian perhaps He thought to himself; “Sorry Zachariah. That’s got to hurt! Haha. But, don’t worry, I’m gonna bless Mary Jones in Iowa in a couple thousand years. She’s Amurrican, ya know! I owe it to her.”
Here’s what I believe. America is on its own. YOU are on your own. God isn’t going to save you from the coming destruction. Go ahead and trust God to send your soul to heaven, but here on earth you alone better take care of your sorry ass.
For an agnostic, you sure have a lot of religion rolling around in your cranium.
God gave people free will, and God can’t bless a nation unless the nation stands under God. We all know that isn’t the case anymore. That went out sometime in the 60’s. America pays lip service to a belief in God, no matter what the bible thumpers profess, but it’s all bullshit.
We have broken all of God’s laws, and there is a price to be paid for doing so. We have started to pay the price, but you haven’t seen nothing yet. Liberal progressive democrats demonize christian religion, the “corn pone nazis”, yet they preach multi-culturalism. What they really want is collectivism, communism and/or socialism and fascism. Do things their way or die (not God’s way).
Obama and his minions have to run the table now to bring about the end of this country. Many, many people believe he is the antichrist, and for good reason. This isn’t a christian nation any longer, or any other type of nation, so God isn’t going to save us. And he’s not going to save all the false prophet religious phonies out there. Religion has turned into a parlor trick, a side show, and has co-signed all the sins practiced today. Go to church on Sunday, be forgiven, so you can sin all week. A bunch of hypocrites. But don’t blame God for religion.
The seven deadly sins, revered and practiced as a country by Americans:
wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.
The only thing that matters is your soul, and how you practice spirituality. Our nation is beyond saving at this point.
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You’re missing the bigger picture. It isn’t whether Zach got ripped apart by lions, but that Christians persevered, albeit in a perverted form after the third century, but they persevered across millenia.
You’re also incorrect that the US is non-Christian, it was founded on Christian principle, the only time in history of which I’m aware.
I’m reminded of the story of Lot, for whom the city of Sodom was spared, until he was rescued from it.
The christian’s call isn’t to worldly possessions, but to win men and women for the Lord, to fight the good fight.
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.” (Revelation 22:14, ESV)
Stucky, it’s amazing to me that you seem to know a lot about the world of god, being an agnostic. Atheism is a religion, pure and simple. I would suggest to you that while professing to “not know,” you spend a lot more time explaining why you don’t believe, that you do the other way around. One might call you a god rejector. You’re not ignorant, you know enough to believe, but you don’t. You have my pity.
Oh Stucky you cover a lot of territory and it’s a challenge to respond.
The Old Testament is difficult in many ways, but I love the stories of the “Heroes of the Fairh” and all their human frailties. They were liars, murderers, adulterers, cheats, idolaters and failures in many other ways (like me) but God still loved them and used them and eventually brought them to spiritual maturity. This gives me hope for me and you. Yes, God’s ways are sometimes incomprehensible to us mere mortals; we’d like a predictable, manageable guy upstairs who sees things from our perspective. Instead we get mystery and the insistence that faith requires trust when we don’t understand. This forces humility, a most winsome quality.
Jesus said a lot of amazing things but I go with “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself.”. When queried about the definition of “neighbor,” the parable of the Good Samaritan resulted, which makes clear a neighbor is even the most despicable person you know. Try to imagine a world where just these two principles (so profoundly simple and so profoundly difficult) are applied. You’d need to have compassion for Ben Bernacke and Jamie Dimon!
I agree the church can be maddening. The arrogance is sometimes appalling and deadly. God will bless whom He chooses and curse whom He will. Generally speaking, I think history shows that individuals, families, cultures and nations who follow Biblical principles are healthier,happier, and more prosperous than those who don’t. Call it Karma if it’s more comfortable.
I think you’d enjoy the book “Jesus for President” by Shane Claiborne and Chris Haw.
For an agnostic, Stuck sure prays a lot for IU to win.
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Fool’s thoughts on Hell:
Hell is a fantasy spawned in the minds of those who are too cowardly to stand and fight for the things all good men desire.
These folks want to believe that unjust will be punished in the afterlife.
Or, to put it simply, someone else will do it.
The Watchtower bunch left another piece of their bullshit on my door the other day.
Interesting statistic about them is they a finite number of them can be saved which turns out to be 144×144 or a gross gross.
That ought to tell you something…………F###ing Jehova WITLESSES.
I don’t care what you believe. Any government that tries these steps is a corrupt government.
Step 1: Kill God
Step 2: Replace God with government
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/university-files-charges-against-student-who-refused-to-stomp-on-jesus.html
Maybe you’re on your own. But, the writing is on the wall.
Correction second line regarding Jehovas:
.
…………They think a finite………
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good. (Psalm 14:1, ESV)
God loves you, Stucky, and AWD too.
But I don’t see America as God’s chosen people. But then, I don’t see anybody as more chosen by God than anybody else. God is an equal opportunity deity.
Americans are pretty prideful… and the Bible does say “Pride goeth before destruction”. So when pride goeth, look out! The US of A is toast.
Eddie, you can pick and choose what you like.
God is not a diety. You’ve been paying too much attention in class when you should have been sleeping.
If He follows the Golden Rule, he will let us sink. America professes to be a religious, God fearing country, but it is just the opposite. We began by killing the natives, took land from the neighbors, fought among ourselves and with others over money (Civil War & Revolution), joined or caused many wars for profit, etc.
We are the money changers in the temple. We worship Mammon. Why would He not allow/cause our demise? If you wait for God to save you, you will have to take it up with Him after you die. I don’t see Him anywhere today. (Apologies to those of other faiths or none.)
Makati, don’t confuse the federal gommit with the people who settled and founded this nation.
We ceased being a nation of, for and by the people long ago. Don’t believe me, ask the american indian. The feds broke every treaty with them except the last one.
When did you ever sign a treaty with the Indians? Why do you accept breaking treaties? I don’t, it’s dishonest. Welcome to the federal gommit.
God or no god, we’re fucked. Does there really need to be any further debate on this point?
“You have my pity.” ————- Nonanonymous
That’s a rather condescending remark, no?
I don’t your pity, thank you.
ecliptix543
Gallup International indicates that 41% of American citizens report they regularly attend religious services …… over 100 million people. The Christian book industry rakes in several billion a year, as does Christian music. And there is more Christian TV and Radio than makes sense.
I don’t think I’m going out on a limb saying that millions of Americans think that Jeebus will take care of everything, no matter how bad things are or get, no problemo. As I said in my article, perhaps that’s one very good explanation why we have so many sheeple.
I thought all that was worthy of debate. But, perhaps not.
“I would suggest to you that … you spend a lot more time explaining why you don’t believe …”
———- Nonanonymous
I could. But, you wouldn’t like my answers. Trust me on that.
When Jacob passed along the many blessings bestowed upon him by God as God had bestowed upon Abraham and Isaac before him it is important to pay attention to which of the twelve sons got the lions share of the blessings. It was by no means an equal split, nor did the firstborn (Reuben) take home the prize as he had exhibited behavior that angered God and was, thus, passed over.
To Judah was given the kingship and the right to rule. From Judah came David and his everlasting throne. Just how God accomplished that is a subject for a different thread but it is remarkable and involves both of Judah’s sons from Tamar, Pharez and Zarah (who wore the scarlet thread around his wrist). Also from Judah, of course, came our Lord, Jesus Christ and the nation of Judah which became known as the Jews. Nobody had ever heard of a Jew at the time the children of Israel were escaping from Egypt.
But the greater part of the blessings went to the two sons of Jacob’s most beloved offspring of his most beloved wife, Rachel. Call it unfair but Jacob loved Joseph more than any of his other sons, primarily because of his love of Rachel. The other brothers realized this and nearly killed him before selling him into bondage in Egypt while they were still living to the North in the land of Canaan. But instead of becoming a slave, God made the Pharaoh take notice of Joseph, eventually putting him 2nd in command (only to himself) and essentially in charge of the entire Egyptian society. When his family joined Joseph in Egypt during the drought and famine the brothers feared for their lives because they remembered how they had mistreated him. But Jacob was beside himself in Joy because he had been told Joseph was dead those many years. Joseph treated his brothers kindly and was the obvious choice to get the most substantial of the blessings despite being only older than Benjamin. Before they were slaves in Egypt, they lived as kings.
But ,instead of bestowing the blessing on Joseph, he split it between his two sons, Manasseh and Efriam. He even threw in a twist and gave a little more to the younger than the elder. “he (Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Efriam) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.”
After the explosion of archeology in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries it became clear that those ‘lost tribes of Israel’ had never been lost (by God) and could be located in the British Isles, North Western Europe, and the United States. Again, a subject for another thread. It was Great Britain (Efriam) that became the multitude of nations and later the United States (Manasseh) became a great nation.
But, Great Britain has been in decline for a century and look what’s happening here. God never said the blessing would last forever. In fact He tells of a terrible time when the world will be in great tribulation. Does it not look like we’re moving in that direction?
So, in my view, God has blessed our nation but He will also punish it for turning away from Him. Just as he sent the Assyrians to conquer the northern tribes due to their wickedness, and as he sent the Babylonians later to conquer and take into captivity the remnants of Judah, the Jews.
Today, our so called leaders, the elite, worship their God in their Masonic temples and secret rites of secret societies, but their God is not the God of Abraham but the one God cast down from Heaven to rule over the Earth. If you want to be rich and powerful on Earth, join the Masons. If you want to spend eternity with God in Heaven, Christianity is the way.
“Here’s what I believe. America is on its own. YOU are on your own. God isn’t going to save you from the coming destruction. Go ahead and trust God to send your soul to heaven, but here on earth you alone better take care of your sorry ass.”
I don’t disagree. As far as the ‘go ahead and trust God’ part I strongly agree. Great article. It’s actually refreshing reading something from an agnostic because the athiests are erking me out.
“God isn’t going to save you from the coming destruction”
Unless it is true that the church is raptured prior.
In a country of 325 million people its a mixed bag of right and wrong. As I understand God and the Bible come judgement day its an individual not collective judgement.
. Will God save America? I dunno but America is not mentioned in the “end times”. Something I ponder and feel uneasy about.
Hebrew scriptures = inflated oral stories turned into written stories about past happenings (real and/or not real) of several different tribes of humans in one geographic area of the world who were trying to explain what they could not explain with reason… EX: Moses (if he did exist) with Gods help, turns the river Nile blood red – back in the year 5,000 +/- BC they did not know the biological make-up of things so hey, this great and powerful mysterious creature did it to save us special people. In reality what happened was they had just gone through a dought and the bloody color is the result of Chromatiaceae bacteria, which thrives in oxygen-depleted water and often takes on an opaque red blood hue.
Christian scriptures = Jesus (if he did indeed exist) was a Jew teaching his own up-dated versions of Jewish laws and rules, many of which were in agreement with what the famous Rabbi Hillel was teaching also around that time. Jesus died like thousands of others Jews did by Roman cruixfication because he was a threat against Pilate and the others nut leaders. His teachings were then later written down by some guys the best they could remember many, many decades later. Rest of the scriptures is made up of different men and their letters, who thought they were doing the work of Jesus / God for the better of their people…
As a born again Christian, I have faith that God knows me and loves me. He expects certain behaviors from me, but that is no guarantee that I will be happy with how my life happens or the results of my decisions. In fact, it may be that America is going to fail precisely because we profess to be a Christian nation… The Old Testament is chock full of God testing the faith of his people.
In the end, God isn’t going to save this Nation, he cares only for my soul. If this Nation is to be saved, it will have to be done by its’ people. Maybe a driver of those individuals actions is their Faith, maybe not, but God isn’t going to defend our liberty…
TomK – Jesus did exist…there’s enough evidence in the historical record to know that much for certain…the real question is did he rise from the dead? Well his disciples died horrible deaths believing he did. To avoid those deaths, they need only recant. None did. I have Faith in their witness. He rose from the dead so that if I believe, I may too… if only in Heaven…..
God and religion is what happens when ignorant, fearful people are confronted with things they can’t explain but for some strange reason feel an overwhelming need to describe.
“Coming to terms” literally means finding the words, the “terms”, to define what one is feeling/experiencing and when that is a massive fear of the unknown then the unknowable needs to be described.
The sheeple would rather believe that someone somewhere knows what’s going on and then follow along if it promises salvation from (..fill in the blank..).
Yes – the sheeple are numerous because religion offers answers to the unanswerable – ambiguity and uncertainty are NOT tolerable – so there must be an explanation for everything – and yes please – let’s do wrap it all up in issues of morality as if morality only comes about via religions and gods.
All this because people die and others realized how easy it would be to control others by the fear of what comes afterwards.
Consciousness and existence are mysteries and I’m okay living with them – I’m curious but I don’t “require” answers to move forward. The Golden Rule works for me.
Feelings, beliefs and faith are NOT equivalents to knowledge, proof or evidence. Dead is dead – what happens afterwards is unknowable.
How one chooses to manage the unknowable is their business – right up and until it impacts me.
Consciousness is a trip – this banned Tedx talk is a fascinating lecture about societies’ attempts to control other people’s consciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKHMH4FfWrw
Olga- “Consciousness and existence are mysteries and I’m okay living with them – I’m curious but I don’t “require” answers to move forward. The Golden Rule works for me.”
Christians don’t’ require answers either…that’s why it’s called Faith. Interesting that you choose the Golden rule for a basis for deciding whether an act is moral or not. You deny the existence of God yet, you measure your own actions against his chief commandment.
OMG forget what God thinks we better be concerned about what the GALACTIC SENATE thinks!
If we are not alone in the universe some day they will make contact. They will review our history and our present and put us all down like the mad dogs we are.
I’m sorry I thought this was a science fiction post………
JIMSKI-“If we are not alone in the universe some day they will make contact. They will review our history and our present and put us all down like the mad dogs we are.”
I dunno…the universe is a pretty big place… just because there may be more life out there…it doesn’t mean they will be our moral betters. What happens if we make contact and we find out they are Christians too?
Christians did not invent and do not have ownership of the “Golden Rule”. Morality, humanity, selflessness and love exist absent “faith” in any god or beleif in any one religion.
Working as a community to pronounce what happens after one is dead is, IMO, an unnecessary waste of energy as well as an attempt to control through fear.
I wonder if someone can identify for me a movement, organization, or belief system founded on and energized by atheism that has made a positive difference in this world.
“ … and later the United States (Manasseh) became a great nation.” —— ditchner
From Egypt in 5,000BC to America today …. We’re all lost Jews!!! That’s quite a stretch.
How many Jewish Pilgrims (haha) were on the Mayflower? Or, in the colonies before that? None, right?
The Jewish website below states that the first Jew came from BRAZIL. And that there was no significant Jewish population in the USA until the early/mid 1800’s. Your “Manassseh” stuff is waaaay out in left field.
I don’t know much about the Masons ….. except that they make really useful jars for storing food.
” … identify for me a movement, organization, or belief system founded on and energized by atheism that has made a positive difference in this world.” —— Gayle
The Burning Platform
I wonder if someone can identify for me a movement, organization, or belief system founded on and energized by “an organized religion” that has made a “negative” difference in this world.
Definition of AGNOSTIC
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
Our socialist/communist leaders have to kill God off to seize ultimate power. And every socialist/communist country has fallen in a catastrophic collapse, with millions of deaths. That’s where we are headed. Our worst is yet to come: after the 2014 elections, when liberal progressives gain control of the house and senate, and start rewriting the Constitution. Enjoy what time you have left.
wrath: military in 120 countries all over the world, Iraq and Afghanistan
greed: Wall Street, Banksters, corporatocracy
sloth: 100 million on welfare don’t work, sit on their asses
pride: USA is #1, nationalism patriotism
lust: Porn, divorce,
envy: 90% hate the 10%
gluttony: baby boomers, USA most obese people in the history of mankind.
God’s wrath is coming
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“Interesting that you choose the Golden rule for a basis for deciding whether an act is moral or not. You deny the existence of God yet, you measure your own actions against his chief commandment.”
——— chris
The Bible contains much truth. Even an honest atheist will admit that. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater?
Furthermore, the “Golden Rule” is clearly not unique to Christianity. In fact, it can be considered a Universal Moral Rule, and many religions PRIOR to Christianity taught it.
.
Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
—– Confucianism
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
—– Buddhism
This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
—– Hinduism
No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
—– Islam
What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
—– Judaism
Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
—– Taoism
That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
—– Zoroastrianism
Now this is the command: Do to the doer to cause that he do thus to you.
—– Egyptian, circa 2040BC
These eight words the Rede fulfill, ‘an ye harm none do as ye will.
—The Wiccan Rede
I have never understood how a belief in a god is the equivalent to morality.
I don’t believe for one minute religion and a belief in gods is going anywhere – many people desire and enjoy the fellowship, community and tribal acknowledgements that a belief in an almighty something and membership in an organized religion provides.
Working within a VOLUNTEER community to acknowledge the pain of loss, the celebration of life and the organization of the communities’ shared milestones is IMO, a good thing.
Working as a community to pronounce and then FORCE an opinion about what happens after one is dead – and how one should live to conform to that opinion, is, IMO, an waste of energy as well as an attempt to control through fear.
Consciousness is profound and we have barely scraped the surface – and ruling through fear, whether fear of eternal damnation, fear of estrangement, fear of the police state, or some other fear, it’s still ruling through fear.
I understand agnosticism. My question was about atheism.
Absolutely, organized religion has had negative impacts. It cannot be denied, however, that it has had some major positive effects on individuals and cultures.
So my question still stands.
I’m not sure how a question about “atheism” is relevant – the original article was written from an avowed agnostic, stated in his opening sentence.
America “asserts” God as their very own while also claiming the moral high road – same as most religions.
If we could get to where the community and fellowship is what is emphasized – rather than pretending we know what happens after we’re dead – then perhaps “we the people” might begin to make better choices for our nation.
And the world in general.
Lifting people’s consciousness and making them aware of how much we don’t know is, IMO, preferable to telling them what to believe, what to think and what to do.
20 irrefutable facts and why I am not an atheist;
1)—If the earth was in an elliptical galaxy the lack of heavy elements and radiation exposure would prevent any life from existing. Life can only exist on a planet in a spiral galaxy.
2)- If the earth was in one of the spiral arms of our galaxy the amount of radiation and supernova explosions would kill all life. Yet Earth lies in the peaceful openness between our galaxies’ spiral arms.
3)- If the earth was too far away from the center of the galaxy there would be no heavy elements to form life. If too close to the center radiation and disruption in planetary orbit would kill all life. Earth is exactly where it must be to sustain life.
4)- If there were more than one star in our solar system our orbit would be disrupted enough to prevent life from existing.
5)- If the sun we orbit were any larger it burn too rapidly and burn up all life. But if any smaller the rotational and tidal periods of earth would be drastically altered and there would not be enough UV radiation to allow plants to create sugars and oxygen.
6)- If the sun burned a different color (more red, blue, ect.) plants could not photosynthesize.
7)- If the surface gravity of earth was just minutely altered the atmosphere would contain either too many gases poisoning life, or too little gases and we’d lose our protection from deadly radiation.
8)- If the earth was closer to the sun we’d be too hot. Farther and we’d be too cold. A change as much as 2% would kill all life.
9)- If earth’s orbital eccentricity was greater, seasonal changes would be too extreme for life to withstand.
10)- If earth’s axial tilt was slightly changed, surfaces temperatures would be too high for life.
11)- If the earth rotated faster atmospheric wind velocities would be catastrophically violent, if slower, temperature differences would be too great.
12)- If the earth’s magnetic field were stronger, electromagnetic storms would be catastrophic, but if too weak, solar radiation would eradicate all life.
13)- If the earth’s crust were too thick too much oxygen would enter the crust killing life, if too thin, volcanic activity would kill all life.
14)- If there were more asteroids and comets in the solar system, constant collisions would kill most life.
15)- If the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere were too high there would be a catastrophic greenhouse effect, if too low, plants could not photosynthesize.
16)- If there were too much water vapor in the atmosphere a runaway greenhouse effect would kill all life, if too little there would not be enough rainfall to support life on land.
17)- If the atmospheric discharge of electricity (lightning) were too high fires would reach catastrophic levels, but if too low, there would not be enough nitrogen in the atmosphere to support life.
18)- If the ozone level in our atmosphere were too high surface temperatures would be freezing, and if too low, radiation would kill all life.
19)- If the moon were too close, tidal forces would catastrophically sweep over the earth surface, and if too far, create instabilities in earth’s climate.
20)- If the uniformity of radiation was smoother stars and galaxies and the earth could not form. If coarser, the universe would be empty space.
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CONCLUSION: Scientists have calculated that all the factors required for life to exist in the universe and on earth happening by chance is one in ten to the one-hundred and twenty-third power. For you math-challenged, that’s a 1 followed by 123 zeros.
Don’t just skip over that number. Think about that for a moment. Well … you can’t … it’s just to large to comprehend. We need something to compare it to. How about this? The estimated number of ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE is just ten to the 82nd power (http://www.universetoday.com/36302/atoms-in-the-universe/). So the probability of life on earth forming by chance is greater than the number of atoms in the universe. Wow.
“Behold, the heavens declare thy Glory”.
@Stucky – I’d challenge those stats, based on the fact that we cannot begin to understand what strange forms of “life” may lie beyond the bounds of our solar system.
As for God blessed/cursed….I wish. Then I could blame the Man in the Sky.
No, it is humans who bless or curse their own existence. Our country was founded with an amazing system of laws and codes (not perfect, but still better than the alternatives). We bastardized these amazing codes, and have allowed it to happen.
Our destruction is our own.
Some of you are old enough to remember America’s most famous atheist, Madalyn Murray O’Hare.
She was not a nice person, from the reports I’ve read. The way she met her end is very interesting to me. She was robbed, by two of her employees, after they tortured her to find out where her money was buried, and then chopped up and buried in an oil drum in a shallow grave.
When I think about her, it gives me faith that (a) the Law of Karma is alive and well…and (b) that God not only exists, he has a wicked sense of humor.
Olga
I think you and I could have a great discussion over a couple of glasses of wine. Unfortunately the limitations of blog responses are manifesting themselves so I call a truce.
Agreed!
“I’d challenge those stats, based on the fact that we cannot begin to understand what strange forms of “life” may lie beyond the bounds of our solar system” ——- TPC
You mean perhaps like the “silicon based life” creature — the Horta — from the original Star Trek (The Devil in the Dark)?
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I’d rather not venture into fantasy worlds we don’t know. You may challenge the stats (how does anyone determine the number of atoms in the universe??) but the fact of the matter — in the world we do know — is than an extraordinary number of things must be exactly just right for biological life to have formed.
And the 20 point list (that’s just the start) above deals only with Earth. There are just as many in terms of the Universe needing to be “just right”. And I haven’t even touched on all the “just right” conditions needed for biological life.
It is all a terrifically Great Mystery to me. People like to mock Agnostics for not being able to make a choice.
Door Number One: God!!
Door Number Two: Chance!!
This agnostic asks; “Can I have another door?”
God travels and communicates through dark matter and dark energy, everyone knows that.
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Stuck, it would be a mystery, which it was until the mystery was revealed.
Wise men, wiser than you pondered these things for millenia, which up until the 20th century hadn’t changed a whole lot, with the exception of a few discoveries, like the telescope, etc.
What they did have were the stories handed down, then written, but before God made man, he wrote his word in the stars, then from Adam onward, that was all they had.
The mystery was in the north sky, which is almost void of stars. God made known that mystery on the day of pentecost, when holy spirit was poured out upon those who confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from dead. It’s available to every man, without distinction.
You may claim “it’s a mystery,” but you would be wrong, just like in everything else. It’s only a shame that you can’t see it, or if you can, refuse to believe it. It’s not all that complicated, yet you reject it. Why is that? I’ll tell you why, it’s your arrogance. You’re in good company. Carl Sagan was a god rejector, too, and the world is a better place without him. Apparently, you’ve been given another chance. Don’t waste it. Confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead, and you will be saved from the wrath that is to come.
Don’t believe there’s any wrath coming? Hmm…..
… an extraordinary number of things must be exactly just right for biological life (as we understand biological life) to have formed.
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The universe is a big place – I suspect that we might realize one day that to study the small sample of earth and then extrapolate out to the universe may be less accurate then to study the Universe and then consider earth’s dynamics within this bigger picture.
“CONCLUSION: Scientists have calculated that all the factors required for life to exist in the universe and on earth happening by chance is one in ten to the one-hundred and twenty-third power. For you math-challenged, that’s a 1 followed by 123 zeros.”
Are these the same assholes that can not tell me if it is going to rain this Saturday ?