It truly is amazing how Al Qaeda seems to be everywhere, even though we’ve spent $1.3 trillion, killed bin Laden, “won” the Iraqi war, “won” the Libyan war, and “won” the Afghan war. I thought we accomplished our mission. How can Al-Qaeda be in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and Egypt? They aren’t. The ruling class and their mainstream media mouthpieces call anyone who does not fall into line with what our Empire desires, an Al-Qaeda terrorist. The dumbed down American populace hears Al-Qaeda and quivers. They are manipulated into thinking droning wedding parties and children across the Middle East is the right thing to do. If not, our freedom will be in jeopardy from some ragheads living in caves 12,000 miles from our border. I don’t know whether I’m more disgusted by our neo-con fascist government or the non-thinking, iGadget gazing, hapless excuse for citizens that inhabit this decaying excuse for a society.
Al-Qaeda is Everywhere!
How did al-Qaeda, a tiny anti-Communist group in Afghanistan that had no more than 200 active members in 2001 become a supposed worldwide threat?
How can al-Qaeda be all over the Mideast, North Africa, and now much of black Africa? This after the US spent over $1 trillion trying to stamp out al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
The answer is simple. As an organization and threat, al-Qaeda barely exists. But as a name, al-Qaeda and “terrorism” have become the west’s handy universal term for armed groups fighting western influence, corruption or repression in Asia and Africa. Al-Qaeda is nowhere — but everywhere.
If you’re a rebel group seeking publicity, the fastest way is by pledging allegiance to the shadowy, nowhere al-Qaeda.
Take Iraq, where fighting currently rages between the Shia government and Sunni militias in Anbar Province. Interestingly, the Sunni uprising is centered on Fallujah, which was almost flattened by US Marines and blasted apart by depleted uranium shells and illegal white phosphorus as a dire warning to Iraqis who resisted.
After the US invaded Iraq in 2003, over a dozen Iraqi resistance groups rose to fight the Americans and their new-found Shia allies. Chief among them were Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath Party and Iraqi military veterans. As I kept saying at the time on major US TV networks, there was no al-Qaeda and no nuclear weapons in Iraq. Thank George W. Bush for Iraq’s so-called al-Qaeda.
Thanks to the magic of mass media manipulation, Washington was able to divert attention from all of the Sunni resistance groups — or “terrorists” as they were branded — to a single group of cutthroats led by a mysterious, renegade Jordanian, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The rest of the resistance groups simply vanished from our view.
A few have now resurfaced in western Iraq, notably the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Syria), or ISIS. It is always branded “al-Qaeda linked” by western media, though no evidence is offered. Iraq’s increasingly brutal regime has also claimed it is fighting al-Qaeda in Anbar Province.
Mention of the al-Qaeda buzz-word has sent America’s conservative Republicans and neoconservatives into a frenzy. They are demanding that the Obama administration do something. Maybe re-invade Iraq? There are some 10,000 US combat troops just down the road in Kuwait.
US special forces, drone and manned aircraft, and CIA mercenaries are already in action around Fallujah and Ramadi. As in past years, CIA is paying millions to Sunni tribesmen to fight anti-government forces.
Crazy as it sounds, the US is considering buying attack helicopters from Russia to give to the Baghdad regime, as it is now doing in Afghanistan with the Kabul regime.
Speaking of Afghanistan, former Pentagon chief Leon Panetta admitted that there were no more than 25 to 50 al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan. But now, al-Qaeda has popped up in Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, across North Africa, Nigeria, Mali, Central African Republic, and so on. Somalia’s anti-western resistance group, Shebab, is also branded “al-Qaeda linked.”
Back in the Cold War, almost all groups opposing western domination were called communists. Today, al-Qaeda has replaced communism as a hot button name. The widespread — but probably mistaken — belief that Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda was responsible for the 9/11 attacks has made anything “linked” to al-Qaeda fair game for liquidation.
Branding your foes “terrorists” is a fine way of de-legitimizing them and denying them any political or humanitarian rights. Israel did this very effectively with the hapless Palestinians, who foolishly cooperated by bombing civilians.
However, the obvious problem here is that doing so creates an endless supply of “terrorists” and pressure to take action against them. That and oil are the reason US special forces are now beating the bush all over black Africa. It’s the never-ending “long war” that America’s militarist and neocon circles want, and against which President Dwight Eisenhower so presciently warned back in the 1950’s.
Egypt offers another grim example of propaganda becoming fact. The majority of its people who voted for a democratic government in a fair election and its leaders are now condemned as “terrorists” by the thuggish generals who overthrew the legitimate government in Cairo. Anyone daring to oppose the US and Saudi-backed military junta is a “terrorist.” They must drive terrorist cars, eat terrorist food, and have terrorist babies.
Sorry, what’s the issue? The media calls muslim terrorists Al Qaeda because it’s convenient. The press, being as absurdly ignorant as the people they write for, haven’t got the time or ability to track the various nuances between Sunni militias in one Baghdad neighborhood, former Ba’athist govt members in Tikrit, competing tribal groups, Shiite militias, and others.
Al Qaeda is a convenient tag, since anyone can be Al Qaeda-membership is as easy as saying, “I’m in Al Qaeda!” It’s franchising. I figure Al Qaeda will never die because it doesn’t really exist. As long as 1 jihadi is left with a laptop and a copy of Inspire!, Al Qaeda can/will live on. You can kill people, but you can’t kill an idea. As long as the West is hated for its actions, extremes, support for Israel and other hated governments, awful culture, presence in the land of Mecca, and its control of the global economy, and whatever else, Al Qaeda will be able to find supporters. Also, as long as the global economy sucks, I think Al Qaeda will be able to attract supporters.
I wonder how long before the ultimate “cool” form of rebellion in the suburbs will be joining Al Qaeda? White suburbanite kids will dump their Che T-shirts, buy Bin Laden T-shirts, and like Al Qaeda in America on Facebook and get Jihad trucker caps to wear to the mall, driving parents and law enforcement crazy. “And in the news tonight, the ACLU is suing the Baltimore public school system for violating young Johnny Smith’s 1st Amendment rights to wear an I Heart Al Qaeda T-shirt in school….”
Unless you’re trying to actually track and fight them, there’s no reason to worry about the number of armed groups in Iraq. They change their names, split and merge and break up and reform, and appear and disappear as circumstances and cash flow and employment levels change. The fundamental issues in Iraq are simple: Everyone wants more power for themselves and less for others. Shiites are the majority and hate their former Sunni rulers. Sunnis used to run the place and hate Shiites. Kurds hate Arabs and want the North left alone. The tribes hate all the other tribes and outsiders. Hard-core religious people hate other religious groups and anyone who believes less than they do. Everyone has a gun. Arab culture dictates you get revenge for any insult or injury to your loved ones/family/tribe, etc. Violence in Iraq is not going anywhere.
The real question I have is Who Cares? If Iraq is going to survive in something approaching it’s current form, they’re going to have to be hungry enough to keep it. There is no justification for them to remain a country if they don’t have the willpower to maintain it. There is no justification for them to be a so-called democracy unless they have the willpower to maintain it. As far as I can tell, the average Iraqi doesn’t give a crap about democracy. Whoever is hungriest to control Iraq is going to be the one who wins-and that appears to be Iran. The Sunnis are too weak to do more than control their traditional home territory. The Shiites are too numerous and too organized by Iran and too well-funded for there to be any outcome. I figure the Kurds will eventually separate from Iraq and the remaining territory will collapse into civil war with Shiites/Iran the eventual winner. There aren’t enough Sunnis to control Iraq and Shiites will never back down now.
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Al Qaeda is like a Hydra, you cut off one head, and two more pop out. The only reasonable thing to do is not fight…
Meet al-Qaeda’s new poster boy for the Middle East
The fall of the Iraqi city of Fallujah back into the hands of al-Qaeda has shown the power of the movement’s new leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
THE FBI “most wanted” mugshot shows a tough, swarthy figure, his hair in a jailbird crew-cut. The $10 million price on his head, meanwhile, suggests that whoever released him from US custody four years ago may now be regretting it.
Taken during his years as a detainee at the US-run Camp Bucca in southern Iraq, this is the only known photograph of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the new leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and Syria. But while he may lack the photogenic qualities of his hero, Osama bin Laden, he is fast becoming the new poster-boy for the global jihadist movement.
Well-organised and utterly ruthless, the ex-preacher is the driving force behind al-Qaeda’s resurgence throughout Syria and Iraq, putting it at the forefront of the war to topple President Bashar al-Assad and starting a fresh campaign of mayhem against the Western-backed government in Baghdad.
Last week, his forces fought open clashes with Iraqi army troops around the city of Fallujah – once known as the graveyard of the Americans – after brazenly attempting to seize control there the weekend before.
“They turned up in convoys waving their black flags and saying that Fallujah belongs to al-Qaeda again,” said Ayad Dulaimi, a local resident. “With God’s help, the army will destroy them.”
For Washington, the fact that it is now Iraqi troops who are confronting Baghdadi’s fanatics rather than American ones is of limited comfort. For just like bin Laden, whose death he has vowed to avenge, his ambitions go well beyond the Middle East.
“You will see the mujahideen (holy warriors) at the heart of your country,” he warned the US in an audio-taped statement. “Our war with you has only started now.”
His attempted take-over of Fallujah and neighbouring Ramadi has also sparked bitter exchanges in Washington over the legacy of the Iraq war. As President Barack Obama flew back from his Christmas break in Hawaii last week, he faced accusations that he had squandered US sacrifices in Iraq through his decision to withdraw troops two years ago.
The charge was led by Senator John McCain, the 2008 Republican presidential candidate, who pointed out that hundreds of US troops had died during operations to keep Fallujah free of al-Qaeda. “Now we see people driving around Fallujah with black flags,” Senator McCain said. “It’s a disgrace.”
So who is exactly is the man who now so worries America, and why has he become so effective?
As with many of al-Qaeda’s leaders, precise details are sketchy. His FBI rap sheet offers little beyond the fact that he is aged around 42, and was born as Ibrahim Ali al-Badri in the city of Samarrah, which lies on a palm-lined bend in the Tigris north of Baghdad. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a nom de guerre, as is his other name, Abu Duaa, which translates roughly as “Father of the Summons”.
Some describe him as a farmer who was arrested by US forces during a mass sweep in 2005, who then became radicalised at Camp Bucca, where many al-Qaeda commanders were held. Others, though, believe he was a radical even during the largely secular era of Saddam Hussein, and became a prominent al-Qaeda player very shortly after the US invasion.
America is based on fear. A couple teenagers go batshit, and an entire city quivers indoors. Every product commercial is based on fear … buy this or your dick will fall off, your wife will leave you, your dog will die, you’ll be poor, unhappy or unfulfilled. One decade we’re afraid of an ice age, the next decade it’s global warming. Fuckit, I could go on forever.
In terms of International Policy …… we have feared EVERYBODY and, like, FOREVER. Fear defines USA policy. Al Qaeda is just the latest.
Native American Indians
The British
The French
Pirates of the Barbary Coast
The British, again
Mexicans
Ourselves (Civil War)
Indians, again
Spanish-American
Philippine War
Banana Wars (in Latin America)
Mexicans, again
Germans
Germans, again, and Japs
The Red Menace (Russians)
Koreans
Dominican Intervention
Gooks
The Yellow Menace (Chinks)
Beirut
Greneda
Panama
Somalia
Haiti
Yugoslavia
Iraq, Afghanistan and huge chucks of the ME
Al Qaeda
“Live in fear or die”. The new american tagline.
Saudi Arabia funds religion(wahhabism) & disruption(al-Qaeda). Exporting disruption AKA nut job wahhabism folks hinders Iran from gaining control over lands and rids the Saudi’s of wahhabism nut jobs at the same time.
Brilliant strategy!
There’s a good reason to fear some of these people.They hate you and will destroy America if they ever get the right weapons .Next time instead of knocking down a couple buildings they will knock down half of New York City.Would that convince you these Ragheads are our enemies?It took pearl harbor before Americans realized the Japs were our enemy.It took Hitler declaring war on us before we realized the Germans were also the enemy.Wake up.
Anybody want to see what is coming to a neighborhood near you? Go to YouTube and watch the civil war videos about Syria.Especially the ones called sniper headshots.Hard to watch but it is war.I believe this is coming to America in the years ahead.
This is an excellent read on the use of terrorism as a tool of imperialism.
http://williamblum.org/aer/read/124
@ bb
You–> “Next time instead of knocking down a couple buildings they will knock down half of New York City.”
Which really wouldn’t bother me all that much… maybe we can cut a deal? We let them blow something up, but we get to choose the target. Detroit? Apelanta? LA?
“It took pearl harbor before Americans realized the Japs were our enemy.It took Hitler declaring war on us before we realized the Germans were also the enemy.Wake up.”
You really don’t have any brains at all, do ya boy?
1) FDR was desperate to get us into WWII. Desperate. The vast majority of Americans polled as late as the fall of 1941 were dead set against any kind of war with anyone. Not our fight. America First was downright popular.
The Jappos invaded China. FDR used that as an excuse to stop oil shipments to Japan. Which literally spelled the end of their way of life. His terms: Abandon China and withdraw, and the oil gets turned on again.
Through the herculean efforts of our Ambassador to Japan, he got them to agree to a treaty. They would withdraw from China if FDR would turn the oil back on. This was in the Fall of 1941. Our Ambassador TOLD FDR this, and FDR told him to fuck off… he didn’t care. This put Japan in the position of attack or die. If they did nothing, their way of life was over. If they attacked, at least they stood a chance. They attacked. Which is what FDR wanted all along.
2) FDR was an Anglophile. He was Woodrow Wilson’s golden boy- Sec Navy. When he became president, he had our destroyers in the Atlantic work with British Kingfisher anti-submarine aircraft in locating and destroying German U-boats. He did this while claiming NEUTRALITY. He also broke international law by trading with only one of the belligerents in the war, also while claiming neutrality. You can’t do that. You can’t send munitions, etc, to only one side and then claim neutrality. You have to shit or get off the pot. FDR did it covertly, same as his mentor Wilson did- by packing munitions into passenger liners and red cross ships- both of which are precluded from carrying munitions.
If you were the commander of a German U-boat and there was some destroyer up there directing fire down on you, I doubt you would give a shit whose flag it flew- you’d shoot at it. And when the Germans shot at our destroyers, FDR had the newspapers howl “GERMANS SHOOT AT US DESTROYER!” Same thing with the illegal arms shipments- the Germans knew which boats carried what, and they blew them out of the water. Newspapers said “GERMANS SHOOT AT UNARMED PASSENGER LINER!”
Want to blame someone for our entry into WWII? Blame that fucking progressive crippled old fuck FDR and his rugmunching fugly “wife”…..
The Germans were desperate to keep us out of the war. That bullshit about “we’d all be speaking German right now if not for…” is just that- a load of bullshit. The Germans couldn’t get across 15 miles of English Channel to invade England- what makes anyone think that they could cross 3000 miles of open ocean with a sufficient logistical train to invade and conquer the continental United States? It’s just ludicrous… the Jappos knew that invading us was suicide. EVERYONE in the US had a rifle. Any invading force would be annihilated. The Germans also knew that.
You really need to read more, bb….
As far as the ragheads… been there, done that. Got the t-shirt and coffee cup. In retrospect, it really ain’t our fight. A bunch of illiterate goat herds in the Hindu Kush sitting in a cave are NOT a threat to our national security.
I don’t know why the media keeps playing Fallujah as if it’s some insult or loss for us. We turned over Iraq to the Iraqis and they wanted it. They couldn’t agree to our SOFA demands, so we left. It’s their ballgame. They’re the ones who lost something. And why should we care at all? Their troops suck, have no motivation or loyalty, and they’ll never admit they weren’t ready to stand on their own two feet. I think Saddam Hussein was the best hope they ever had for stability.
Besides, who cares if they control Fallujah? Now AQIZ controls a shitty 3rd world cesspool of a city in a shitty 3rd world cesspool of a country. Woopty-freaking-do. Surround it, barricade it, and let them starve with their “prize.” It isn’t like they can do anything with it. If the locals flee the city, now the Iraqi army can take responsibility for bombing the city flat, instead of us.
Hannibal thought he was on his way to mastering Italy when he captured and took over a couple walled cities, yet in the end they just sucked up resources and troops he could use elsewhere. We do not remember him for being a winner.
Billy boy , America stay out of the war until Japan attacked and Hitler declared on America hoping Japan would declare war on Russia which would take some of the burden off Germany on eastern front.FDR might have wanted a war but most Americans did not and most didn’t see Japan or Germany as the enemy.Iran will have nuclear weapons soon and you will probably live to see an attack on a western city.Billy I know you have a plan but you will get punched in the mouth.
bb, I haz a question for you. If Iran has been only a year away from an atomic bomb for over 20 years now, don’t you think they’d have one by now?
America need more drones to kill Al Qaeda and Emmanuel Goldstein.
when obamey bowed it was sign of treason
…but…but…but… a least Bush wiped the cum stains from his lip before greeting his loyal morons..er…I mean patriots..
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Al Qaeda is a symbol that is being abused by the federal government.
The problem is two-fold. One, groups who falsely claim to belong to al Qaeda and aren’t. Example: the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG). LIFG was formed in the early 1990s and had one goal in life …. get rid of Qadahfi. Why? He wasn’t radical enough. It wasn’t until around 2005 that the LIFG professed allegiance to al Qaeda. I think everyone here knows what happened after that.
Two, Sharia. That’s the #1 goal of every single member of radical Islam (see LIFG above). 100%. Al Qaeda is a popular brand with these ass clowns. Doesn’t matter whether or not they are really affiliated with al Qaeda or not. they’ll throw their hat in the ring and say they are.
It’s working. And only because the USG is too afraid to say the problem is radical Muslims of any stripe. Al Qaeda is a much easier boogey man.
Blanket words.
The ‘Taliban’ is some 150 tribes that would as much shoot each other as anyone else.
Al Qaeda is another. They would just as well shoot each other as anyone else who steps their foot into the crazy.
i am hoping that al-quada will be getting a series on tv———–it would be a great reality show—not really real in a real sense of reality——–really—-soon on fox.
@ bb
You–> “Billy boy , America stay out of the war until Japan attacked and Hitler declared on America hoping Japan would declare war on Russia which would take some of the burden off Germany on eastern front.”
I’m not going to fight with you over this.
FDR did, in fact, cut off the oil supply to Japan as a result of Japan invading China. He said as much. Our Ambassador did, in fact, secure a treaty whereby the Japs would withdraw from China if FDR turned the oil back on. FDR told them to get bent. This is historical fact and has been cited in various books, history and otherwise, most notably and recently “A Republic, Not an Empire”. FDR was a warmongering piece of crippled progressive shit married to a fugly fucking rugmuncher of a “wife”, and we didn’t “STAY” out of the war until the Jappos attacked us… we were in it long before then, though this was hidden from the American people.
As I already told you, but you appear to have ignored, FDR was already running weapons, munitions and other supplies to Britain on passenger liners and Red Cross ships, while claiming NEUTRALITY – a clear violation of International Law and the Laws of War (see, various Geneva Conventions, treaties, etc).
“… persons protected by the Red Cross/Crescent or white flag are expected to maintain neutrality, and may not engage in warlike acts. In fact, engaging in war activities under a protected symbol is itself a violation of the laws of war known as perfidy. Failure to follow these requirements can result in the loss of protected status and make the individual violating the requirements a lawful military target.”
Perfidy—> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
Quote: “In the context of war, perfidy is a form of deception in which one side promises to act in good faith (e.g., by raising a flag of surrender) with the intention of breaking that promise once the enemy has exposed themselves (e.g., by coming out of cover in order to capture or kill the enemy). Perfidy constitutes a breach of the laws of war and therefore making it a war crime as it degrades the protections and mutual restraints developed in the interest of all Parties, combatants, and civilians.”
Which means that fucking crippled fuck of a Prog FDR was engaged in war crimes even before our formal entry into WWII.
He was already having our destroyers engage German subs in the North Atlantic while claiming NEUTRALITY. Also against the Laws of War. He was deliberately provocative of both the Germans AND the Japs, goading them into attacking us so he could use that as an excuse to get us into the war “formally”…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war
You—> “FDR might have wanted a war but most Americans did not and most didn’t see Japan or Germany as the enemy.Iran will have nuclear weapons soon and you will probably live to see an attack on a western city.Billy I know you have a plan but you will get punched in the mouth.’
No, it’s not MIGHT have wanted a war… He DID want a war and did his level best to get us involved in WWII by provoking belligerents. This is a matter of historical record and there is no “might” about it. And I believe the poll numbers, percent of Americans who wanted to stay out of the fight was in the middle to high nineties even as late as the Fall of 1941. FDR was in disbelief and was right pissed off that over 90 percent of Americans DIDN’T want to enter the fight, despite all his provocations and warmongering… I’d have to do some research, but I’m pretty sure that there were Jews involved, lobbying HARD to get us involved. And this was in 1940 and 41, LONG before there were any established camps, etc.
If Iran gets nukes, well, so what? What guarantees do any of the other nuclear powers offer? Russia had several dozen nukes “go missing” that haven’t been found yet. Israel has about 300 of them that WE gave them (that they deny having to this day). The Pakis have them, the Hindus have them, the North Koreans, the Chinks… your fearmongering will get you no traction with me.
And who are WE to tell any other sovereign nation what they can or cannot have? IF Iran gets nukes, and is stupid enough to use one on us, they know that their country will be wiped from the face of the Earth within a day of their using one. There literally won’t BE an “Iran” anymore…
You’re not thinking like a fucking bad guy bb…. but then, I never accused you of having an overabundance of brains.
Bad guys want to fuck us over? They got maybe one, possibly two nukes. Why biff one in a city? That is literally a pinprick to a country the size of the US. You want to maximize your assets using asymmetrical warfare. So… how do you get maximum mileage out of your one or two puny nukes?
You biff them above the atmosphere using gear you bought through several cutouts… probably from the Chinese or North Koreans. Even a creaky old SCUD missile has enough OOMPH to get it high enough to do the job.
PIFF! Your nuke, launched from a crappy container ship flagged Panamanian and sitting in Galveston harbor, biffs over Kansas somewhere. It sets up something called The Compton Effect. Short version is that it creates a supercharged EMP. Everything line of sight is blown back to the Dark Ages… and from above the atmosphere, that line of sight is most of the continental united states…
Total time from launch to Dark Ages? About 15 minutes.
And, if you got another, then you nail Mordor or NYC just for spite…
THAT’S how they think, bb….
Now, I’m really really done talking about this.
Billy trying to educate bb, hilarious. Good luck with that….
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was a farmer until the U.S. military radicalized him:
“Some describe him as a farmer who was arrested by US forces during a mass sweep in 2005, who then became radicalised at Camp Bucca, where many al-Qaeda commanders were held”.
The neo-cons have created our enemy. If we weren’t there, the most hunted man in Iraq would still be farming.
George Washington was “just a farmer” until the British drove him to take action.
The same thing would happen here if an imperialistic government came into the U.S. and tried that, too.
Billy why do you feel a need to insult me,?It want work.I could punch you in the mouth right now and have you pissed but instead I going to give you the benefit of doubt because I know you
live in redneck,hillbilly fantasy land.Now be gone.
AWD , I am right most of the time about most things.You could learn from me.Besides you’re the one who has so much bitterness which makes you a very unhappy person.read Hebrews chapter 12
It would be a great reality show – Brann
Ever notice nearly every reality show is inconclusive?
The big-foot hunters, the ufo hunters, the ancient aliens, the geologist who looks at rocks…
Then there is the stoopid. NJ Swhore, Honey Boo, NBA wives….
The fuck??
Ridiculous.
AWD , I am right most of the time about most things. -bb
izzat so?
Please enlighten me bb, and by that I mean dont quote ancient literature.
@ bb
You–> “Billy why do you feel a need to insult me,?”
Because you felt the need to be condescending in a previous post. You no rikey? Tough shit.
“It want work.I could punch you in the mouth right now and have you pissed but instead I going to give you the benefit of doubt because I know you live in redneck,hillbilly fantasy land.Now be gone.”
Really? THAT is the takeaway from my entire post? You got your panties in a twist because I said I never credited you with an overabundance of brains?
You poor, stupid little person… I’m trying to teach you how bad guys think. The remedial history lesson was for free, but I still think you should seek a refund from whatever school you attended…
Bad guys don’t come at you head on. They come at you sideways. And even though I blew them off as “illiterate goat herds in the Hindu Kush”, some of them are quite intelligent and have attended schools in the West. They’re well read. They’re familiar with authors like Sun Tzu.
Attack where the enemy is weakest.
Well bb? Where are we weakest? You think a bunch of ragheads are gonna board a Fallujah Air flight out of Afghanistan with a suitcase nuke on it’s way to Miami? Please.
Our infrastructure is pitiful. Especially our power grid. Most of it is 40 plus years old. If you’ve only got one shot, you aim very carefully and you make it count.
An nuke biffed above Kansas would set up an EMP that will knock most of CONUS back into the Dark Ages.
Here’s some fun facts for you bb…
There’s roughly 3000 passenger airliners in the air at any given time over the US. On each of those planes are an average of 200 people. NONE of those planes are hardened to an EMP.
3000 planes x 200 people per plane = 600,000 people.
Biff a nuke above our atmosphere that sets up an EMP and every one of those affected aircraft will be a 400 mph lawn dart… over a half million dead, just from the aircraft.
Kind of makes 9/11 look kind of puny, yeah?
Oh, and let’s not forget the blowback from JUST the aircraft…
Each plane carries several thousand gallons of avgas. Avgas which WILL catch fire and/or explode on impact. 3000+ raging fires all around the US…
An EMP will knock out emergency response vehicles AND any electrical pumps supplying water to municipalities… a twofer. Meaning: there’s no way to fight the fires. Those fires will spread. Some will burn themselves out. Some won’t.
And that, my dear bb, is just the beginning….
NONE of those planes are hardened to an EMP -billy
The jet engines will continue to burn fuel. No spark needed. Also the fuel pumps are mechanical driven by the engine. One of the checks we do is to make sure they will take in fuel even with the electric boost pumps off. The hydraulic pump is also engine driven and will continue to supply hydraulic pressure to the flight controls. Some aircraft also incorporate a ram air turbine [RAT] that drops from the area about the wheel well to supply hydraulic pressure.
@ Kill Bill
So, you’re saying that the planes are fly-by-wire?
I thought modern passenger airliners were controlled electronically from the cabin? I’m no expert on commercial aviation, but I’m not aware of any commercial airliner that is fly-by-wire anymore…
However, since you have experience in this area, I will defer to you if this is not the case.
So, you’re saying that the planes are fly-by-wire? -billy
Airbus are, most all the others still use control cables from the control column, or flap handle etc to move a control valve. Same with landing gear.
The DC-8 still in use, the elevators have no hydraulic power. its is a fly by tab system. The ailerons are powered but can revert to a fly by tab arrangement.
The only time we turned ignition on was during turbulence, the rest of the time the engine igniters were left off after engine start.
Electrical failure is always a possibility, EMP or no, therefore the backup systems were designed to operate without electrical power.
The pilot wont be happy about losing instruments but the airspeed, altitude and some other indicators, will continue to operate.
A dark airport could be a problem.
Kill Bill
The point I am trying to beat into bb’s thick skull is the Law of Unintended Consequences as well as small bits of asymmetrical warfare and even some physics..
An E3 event, man made or otherwise, will fry us. Any vehicle made after 1980 or so, if it’s not underground or shielded, will be DRT until the fried electronics are replaced with new.
Look at it this way. Back in the late, great 18th century, our food supply looked like this.
Farm ——> Market ——> Table.
Or, with sustenance farming.
Farm/garden ——> Table
The reason I chose the 18th century is because shit can happen that will throw the whole thing wonky, and you won’t even know about it until it’s too late.
In 1812, there were two major volcanic eruptions. One each in 1813 and 1814.
Then, in 1815, Mount Tambora exploded. It’s estimated that 100 cubic kilometers of crap was blown into the atmosphere (for comparison, Vesuvius only had 10 cubic kilometers of crap blown into the atmosphere) along with all the gasses that go with it.
One year later, North America had the year without a summer. Folks were caught totally flatfooted. I doubt any of them had even HEARD of Mount Tambora…
Snow fell feet deep in July in New England. Birds fell dead out of the sky from the cold. Mass starvation. And this was when most folks grew their own food or raised their own animals. Eventually, many New Englanders said “Fuck this shit” and headed south and west, which was our first major western migration. And this was just North America…
An E3 event would be… biblical.
Our power is generated by the burning of coal. Coal supplied by trains that run on diesel electric traction engines. You can write those off.
Even IF you’re lucky enough to live near a hydro plant, all the transformers will be blown. I know where our county keeps the spares, and there’s about two dozen of them. Two dozen for a whole county? Nevermind that IF you can get your cherry-picker running (doubtful), which transformers are you going to replace? The transformers are made elsewhere, in factories supplied with parts from somewhere else… yeah, you’re not gonna be getting any “new” transformers anytime soon.
Our medicines are produced hundreds, if not thousands of miles away – produced on demand and trucked in. Trucks that won’t run anymore because of fried electrics.
Once the cities are tapped out, the migrations will begin. Cities have populations from all over the world. And some pretty nasty diseases, too. Those diseases will move with the migrations…
Currently, there are no foundries that produce their own power. They all use electricity to melt metals, but don’t make that power on site. Cut the power, and all that molten metal freezes in place….
Then, there’s old man winter… think about this past “polar vortex”. Now think about it with 98% of the US without power…
There’s more, but you get the idea… how are we gonna harvest crops? Moreover, even if we CAN harvest anything, how will we get food to the folks who need it?
I’m pretty sure that if anyone wanted to fuck us over REALLY well, then would biff a few nukes and set off a bunch of E3 EMP’s over the US…
I doubt 30% of our population would survive the first year.
@ Kill Bill
“Electrical failure is always a possibility, EMP or no, therefore the backup systems were designed to operate without electrical power.
The pilot wont be happy about losing instruments but the airspeed, altitude and some other indicators, will continue to operate.
A dark airport could be a problem.”
Okay, so let’s combine our knowledge and see what we come up with….
I know that there’s about 3000 passenger liners in the air at any given time over the US. Some asshole or group of assholes biff a couple nukes off above the atmo and we get bitch slapped by the mother of all EMP’s…
How many planes would be lawn darts in your opinion?
Remember, an EMP knocks out everything. Not just airports. Imagine not just a dark airport, but a dark EVERYTHING. No transponders. No highway lights. No house lights. Nothing. Like the US was back even before electrification… advanced darkness and no reference points that I can think of… .
In rough figures, how many would make it to the ground safely?
And Kill Bill brings up the venerable old Greasy-8.. CFM-56 or JT8D engines? Bill – I gots a question for ya: Were you working in the vicinity of Elizabeth City, NC on a contract building S-70 gunships back in the fall of ’08? Some of the things you’ve posted over the years here lead me to think I might actually have met you in person.
How many planes would be lawn darts in your opinion? -Billy
Did this imaginary EMP go off during the day or night?
The majority of passenger craft are down for maintenance for the night. Cargo craft fly mostly at night.
All these aircraft carry batteries,and as far as I know are not susceptible to emp.
As to your question less than half the amount you prescribe.
Thinker says: George Washington was “just a farmer” until the British drove him to take action.
The same thing would happen here if an imperialistic government came into the U.S. and tried that, too.
Isn’t that imperialist government the current US government?
And Kill Bill brings up the venerable old Greasy-8.. CFM-56 or JT8D engines? Bill – I gots a question for ya: Were you working in the vicinity of Elizabeth City, NC on a contract building S-70 gunships back in the fall of ’08? Some of the things you’ve posted over the years here lead me to think I might actually have met you in person. -E
I worked on both the JT8 and the CFM-56. Diesel 8’s.
No. worked a Pemco in Alabama [modified KC-135] and Tinker [AWACs] and assorted others from American Eagle [Abilene] and AAR Oklahoma. Also San Antonio on UPS QF mods.
Actually, the707 [kc-135] still used JT3.
modded to use a CFM with no thrust reverser but added more rotors to the wheel brake.
as well, the KC-135 incorporated an escape hatch/ladder ,just below the flight deck, that blocked the wind and allowed the flight crew to clear the wing.
Gotcha. I spent about half my time on heavies doing cargo door mods and major avionics upgrades/glass cockpits, the other half on various versions of the Blackhawk doing mostly desert mods and rebuilds. But, I got my start on DC8 and 727 C & D checks in middle Tennessee. Favorite bird so far is a tie between the Pilatus PC12 and KC10’s.
Pemco in Alabama… Does the name Dennis Moody ring any bells? I know he worked there on and off as a PM.
Kill Bill
“All these aircraft carry batteries,and as far as I know are not susceptible to emp.
As to your question less than half the amount you prescribe.”
You’re not understanding.
An EMP fries the circuitry that carries the electricity, not batteries. You can have a thousand batteries hooked up in series, but it won’t do you any good if the circuitry is hashed.
The older the tech is, the more resistant to an EMP it is. Modern computers, digital anything, anything with a chip in them, if they’re not hardened to an EMP, then they’re DRT. Circuit breakers and surge protectors don’t do shit. By the time they trip, the damage is done.
And if it were ME being the bad guy? What time would my mythical nuke/EMP get biffed?
I would pick rush hour on the east coast. Maybe 8:00 am. Possibly 8:30. That way, you get the commuters in the midwest and farther. And that’s just one. If I had more, I would set them off as “rush hour” was at its worst in each area, with overlapping areas of effect. Just to make sure I fucked them over really well. But, since this is a surprise attack, I would probably have them all go off at the same time… wouldn’t get the carnage on the West coast like you would on the east coast, but meh… they’re still in the dark ages.
Piff. Everything rolls to a stop. Highways are clogged. Trains stop wherever they are. Power and water goes off. Transformers are fried. All cell phones, computers and all iCrap are also DRT. Also any car or truck made after 1980.
Less than half?
Call it 250,000 people, down from the original 600,000. Quarter million is less than half.
But we’re just wargaming and spitballing…. the point is that if you wanted maximum mileage out of limited resources and you’re fighting asymmetrical warfare, an EMP is the way to go. It would take months, if not years, to get everything back up to where it was…
Billy the population die off from such an event would be massive, I’ve read 90%. With no water, sewer disease will kill those that don’t strave to death or killed by Urban tribes.
@Econman. Yeah, but it’s OUR imperialistic government. Let China or Russia try it.
Who’s the guy in the middle of the picture that admin posted in the initial thread? Sure looks like Our commander and chief…but whatever!
Al Qaeda = “The Database”….according to research conducted and published by Globalresearch.ca in 2005.
Here is the opening excerpt from the article:
….
Global Research Editor’s Note
This article originally published by Global Research in 2005 sheds light on the nature of Al Qaeda, an intelligence construct used by Washington to destabilize and destroy sovereign countries, while sustaining the illusion of an outside enemy, which threatens the security of the Western World.
* * *
Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that “Al Qaeda” is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan. Courtesy of World Affairs, a journal based in New Delhi, WMR can bring you an important excerpt from an Apr.-Jun. 2004 article by Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence.
………………
The “boogeyman” analogy is an accurate description of Al Qaeda for group think and mass perception reasons. The movie Wag the Dog comes to mind….and the Oscar-winning classic (sarc) Argo!
If anything, we should be looking more inward for our enemies! They number many and are doing more damage to us than anyone could ever do from a cave in afghanistan! Their arrogance and deceitfulness with how they are orchestrating this as well as their complete lack of regard for the Golden Rule and the Rule of Law should help the few awakened Americans focus their energy and efforts domestically first….TBP has had countless threads naming names…just like the rest of the blogosphere…maybe Americans need to learn something from the Thai protestors on how to show the government shills and their puppet masters’ who is really in charge.
Thai protestors attempt to shutdown Bangkok
[img]http://news.yahoo.com/protesters-mobilise-ahead-planned-thai-capital-39-shutdown-080603449.html;_ylt=A0SO8zQUgtRS2GgAUvxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0cDAxNDRiBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDI5M18x[/img]
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I know….I know…..IT’s not even tinfoil Tuesday here on TBP….I
“In 1812, there were two major volcanic eruptions. One each in 1813 and 1814.” —- Billy
I’m not good at maf. I had to read it three times to get it. It would have helped if you started the second sentence with “Also,”
Anyway, nice try at edumucating bb. IT WON’T WORK!! Although your rant was very educational for me, and others.
I STILL think “bb” is a regular who is doppleganging. Why? No one can possibly be that fucking stupid all the fucking time. It must be on purpose. No one would hang around after getting thousands of thumbs down …. unless he/she is a doppleganging troll.
Adding to the intrigue in this “conspiracy” is the recent death of Loretta Fuddy who was the sole person who died in the plane crash near Hawaii that happened to be videotaped….Mrs. Fuddy duddy was the same Hawaiian Director of Health that “confirmed the authenticity of Obama’s Hawaiian certificate of birth”…He mine as well be a manchurian candidate!