About 30 years ago, I took a series of jobs in Australia, turning around failing manufacturing businesses. We were there for a very few years, and during this time became eligible for Australian citizenship, which we took up. In return for saving one such failing business, I received shares in it, which I still hold today. Over the years I have remained an employee of that small private company, as has my wife, and visit regularly to see that it survives and thrives.
With respect to Australia, we love the people of the rural areas, and the land, passionately. We have never met finer people. City folk are much the same as they are anywhere, but Australian country folk are as fine as they come, as they are in the US. We love the “wide, brown land” of Australia.
“I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror
The wide brown land for me!”
So, it is obvious by now where this is going, and where I and my family are going. We are building our doomstead in Australia. I have kept this quiet for some time, as I value anonymity and privacy.
Australia does not have a Bill of Rights, and in some ways is far different than the US. Gun rights are substantially restricted, but virtually all guns are available, especially to those that live on the land. Freedom of speech is not specifically protected, but is so generally. Violent crime is far less than in the US. Murder is very rare, and almost all perpetrators are caught forthwith.
The political system is as dysfunctional as it is anywhere. The public debt is smallish, and the country has enormous reserves of natural resources, and has the ability to grow its population substantially over the coming decades if need be. It is a far kinder, gentler nation than the US, but that will need to be continually paid for. It has better prospects than most in so doing, owing to the above re resources and population growth, at least in the near term. It is referred to as “the lucky country” and with good reason.
The following three issues are critical to the plan we have implemented – Australian citizenship, part owner of small business, and employee of that same business. In combination, those three things have allowed us to implement plans over the past almost 3 decades that are now coming to fruition.
The benefits of citizenship are obvious – I can come and go as I please, plus citizenship passed through me to my offspring.
The business ownership allowed me to take and store and save business earnings that have already been tax paid. I am able to draw them down complete with tax credits as and when I see fit. I can access approx. $360,000 per year tax free of these earnings. If I access less, I actually get a refund of the taxes previously paid. This is very beneficial indeed.
Keeping employee status allowed us to access the private pension scheme (“superannuation”). It is a very tax effective scheme, and is meant to encourage people to self-fund retirement, rather than use the government pension system. Not only does your employer contribute a percentage of your income, a person can add more him or herself, either pre-tax or post-tax. I added a lot of post-tax funds, which has some significant benefits attached but which are too complex to visit here. The income prior to retirement is preferentially taxed, and post-retirement, all income generated by the scheme, and all income distributed by the scheme, are tax-free, if properly structured. And it does not depend on the amount.
Re the doomstead – the doomstead is on 40 odd acres of rural land, and is around half an hour from a regional center. The home/garage/shedding we have built are very substantial, and are independent from public water and energy. The homestead is water self-sufficient, with dams of a couple million gallons, and with perhaps 100,000 gallons per year filtered and sterilized rainwater collected for use in the house/pool. The outside areas will be irrigated via the dams through significant installation of pipes/pumps/filters. The option of bore water is available, but it is not high quality water, so unless necessary we will not use that option.
The house will have solar hot water, and solar electric panels will generate around 40 KW hours of electricity per day, complete with battery back-up for overnight. This will more than meet our needs, and we will sell some back to the grid. In the event of insufficient sunlight to power the battery bank, we will have a generator, and should that fail, we can tie into the grid.
The 40 acres is on a hillside with nice views, and is mixed as to its characteristics. Some of it is rocky and unusable, while some is nice pasture for a cow or two. Some of the in-between areas are being planted out for firewood and for fruit trees. A large area for growing food is under development, as are areas for egg production and such. The land is over-run with wildlife, especially kangaroos. There are goannas, and assorted birdlife, and echidnas, the odd wombat, perhaps a koala here and there (very hard to spot and only live in certain types of trees), and some of the world’s deadliest snakes about.
The project itself will be fully completed, save for some of the issues re planting of gardens, trees, etc. We are fortunate that we can do this project all at once, and understand what we are implementing, and how we are doing it, is not going to be possible for most people. I do encourage everyone to implement their own plans, however, and work toward that end.
As mentioned, our plan took 30 years, and it was ever evolving, but we had a very good vision of what we wanted to do, and an approximate date when we would do it. If you do not start the journey, you cannot get to the destination.
We are located near our friends from the past, and have responsible, hard-working neighbors of fine character next to us – gentlemen farmers such as ourselves. My kids are going to college in Australia – the education, while not free, costs around $6000 for tuition per year. One is going to the best university in Australia (approximately Ivy standard), and the other will be living at home as soon as the doomstead is complete, commuting to a rural college around 20 minutes away.
I have implemented an exit strategy for my business, which I will perhaps discuss another time.
Another upside is that we get to access our US Social Security in Australia. That pleases me to no end, as it will be good to one day get something back for all we paid in taxes and SS over the years.
There is a significant downside, which I have mentioned in passing oft-times before. The US taxes its citizens on their world-wide income, and places severely onerous reporting requirements on its citizens living abroad. And US tax law does not mesh well with Australian tax law. This will be addressed carefully, as it must. A good tax attorney has been very beneficial to us.
We hope to have transitioned by year’s end. I know folks have talked about responsibility to stay and fight, about how it is cowardly to run away, etc. I in no way see it that way.
The US is a place that I love, with people that I love. But it is deeply flawed. The US people are getting what they want, as I believe is their right. But it is not what I want. The police state is too huge, the loss of rights too pervasive, and the international aggression too frequent. The two lazy wolves and the one highly productive sheep are voting on what to have for dinner, and more and more I feel I am the sheep in that scenario. And that disgusts me and makes a travesty of everything I have believed, and everything I have worked for. The politicians and the bulk of the populace stand idly by while productive society is disadvantaged and destroyed in order to benefit the non-productive bankers, corporate giants, welfare recipients, et al.
I have paid my dues and then some. It is time for a quieter, back to nature lifestyle. We love Australia, and we are of no doubt that the lifestyle we can and will lead in Australia will be far, far more peaceful and happy than that which we could enjoy in the US. The entire family is in agreement on this. I do not wish to support financially the corrupt system, and so I am taking steps to end such support. I will vote with my feet and with my wallet, and will no longer be the milk cow for a vast number of takers. I will ultimately be responsible only for property and sales taxes, and will otherwise be largely entirely free of any tax system.
One of the basic human freedoms is freedom to move and to live where one sees fit. We are exercising that freedom, while it lasts. I am not sure that it is going to last much longer – the US is making increasing efforts to discourage its citizens from living abroad, and it is ever more difficult to do so.
Again, I understand some will view these actions poorly. But, to them I say that I am not a slave, although I have begun to feel like it. I am able to choose my own path, and have worked long and hard with foresight so that my family and I can choose our own paths. I encourage everyone to look at what they can do to minimize their exposure to the yoke, and to plan for the day when they can break from servitude to a master who cares not for you, but rather only for what you can do for him. Rapidly the productive of society are being crushed by the sheer number of those that refuse to add anything. The wolves are voting to eat the productive sheep and the process is accelerating. If you can get out of the servitude, the sooner the better, as the noose is tightening every day.
I thank the Admin, and the friends of TBP, who are doing important work here. I will continue to try to add something of value.
Billy:
“And so I will stay here, for good or otherwise. If it is my fate to go down fighting, then it is what it is… we all die.
All I ask is for the chance to choose how I go out.
But my son must survive. He is the last of us, and he knows it.”
Gave me the chills, my son is also the last in the family line.
Leaving is not an option for all.
I guess I’m older than Llpoh. My sons are past college. Married. Increasingly “with children.”
Their wives come with families. Families are embedded in geography. I also have one passport, not two. Anywhere else, I’d be “the outsider.” In most countries, given the time it takes to become “native,” that would be my condition for the rest of my life.
Thanks, but it’s not an option.
Two thoughts about Llpoh’s G.O.O.D.:
1) No one knows the future; lots of Brits saw the writing on the wall in 1937(ish) and bailed out, going to some sleepy tropical isles from which to observe the coming calamity in peace and tranquility. They went to the Philippines or nearby islands. OOPS.
Australia (like NZ) is quite close to China’s back yard, and given that Australia is Uncle Sam’s “ally” in that area, Uncle is in terminal decline and China, despite plenty of obstacles of its own, is likely to be the Next Big Thing in coming decades, the possibility of making the same mistake as 1937 Brits is far from small.
2) If the worst happens, there is nowhere on Planet Earth to avoid the fallout (literal or figurative) this time. I’m afraid I just don’t put much stock, personally, in the Mel Tappan GOOD theory. It reads like a fiction novel to me, not a plan of action.
There are simply far too many variables to consider any massive change in lifestyle, unless the change is something you’d want to do no matter what. If Llpoh would make this move even if living in the USA promised to be as calm over the next 40 years as it was in the last, more power to him. Otherwise, it’s surely not for me, even if I was younger, wealthier, and had a 2nd passport.
Good time to get out of dodge…link to X22 report on NDAA/black site prisons. The picture on the YouTube report is the message (if the video link works).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO-Uf9pawXY
People are protesting…but the crowds need to be much larger.
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2015/03/03/rally-connects-reports-of-chicago-black-site-to-push-for-reparations-for-police-torture-survivors/
My son too. I guess that weighs heavily on my mind, and often. Regarding Llpoh leaving, I guess the reservation I would have – and its not a condemnation or affirmation – is that should be prevail in this 4th turning…..I want to savor the feelings of pride that come with. That cannot be had without the exposure to the events. I can’t help but sound like a nomad – it really summed me up. Again, Llpoh – take care and keep the updates coming!
[img]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdpAHc2ij7VQxmTeWYM3Qf2XA7aZMaFrc0cPfyZL4iuuYbKr14[/img]
@ card and Tommy,
It does weigh heavy, that is true. And, while I don’t want to hijack the thread or turn this into an “us” thing – because the thread is about Llpoh and his kin – it does bear mentioning…
The boy is strong and fearless, and that’s a good start. He’s also smart as a whip. But I’m always reminded of that one scene in Braveheart where young Wallace meets his Uncle Argyle and Wallace holds up the sword. Argyle looks at him and says:
“First, learn to use this (pokes him in the forehead).”
“Then, I’ll teach you to use this (holds up sword).”
It’s about the best we can do. Teach them to think, to fight, to make it on their own. Everything else is up to them… Though I confess I won’t breathe easy until my son is married and has a passel of rug rats of his own… I doubt I’ll live to see it, though… at least, in this world.
We all know clammy would also get the hell out of Dodge if her over-heated, fried head gasket of a car would actually get her out of Dodge.
Congrats Llpoh, sounds like quite an adventure and a great new chapter for you and your family.
I did not think they allowed Injuns off the reservation??
Seriously though, sounds perfect llpoh.
Llpoh,
Well done man. I wish you and yours the best.
In my humble opinion, moving from one country to another is no different than moving from New Yorkistan to Alaska in order to provide a better life for your family. Fucking hell, how hard is that to understand?
Maybe if Stephanie had a man to take care of her like that she’d be singing a different tune.
Lloph, I join all others here who salute your diligent planning and hard efforts to achieve all that you have. Each passing day I lament the downfall of America, and worry for my son’s future. I have been considering and discussing with my spouse moving out of country as well, albeit with miniscule resources available to do so compared to you and yours. I bet less than 1 in 10 million could do what you are doing. I think the window to G.O.O.D. is a year, 2 at best.
Best wishes.
Well Done Big Dog!!
Australia and Tasmania are high on my list of places to re-locate. They are amazing places of wonderment that possess locations you could get so lost in an invading army could not find you. They have lots of horses as well :-).
I believe another World War will occur in this fourth Turning as current events are pointing in that direction.
So let’s take a look at Australia’s ability to protect its land mass.
Australia military is ranked 13th in the world.
Total Aircraft. 408
Total # tanks 59
Total Naval strength 52
Active Military 58,000
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=australia
With that Military China could invade and take over Australia with very little fan fare.
Let’s take a quick glance at Chinese interests in Australia.
China owns many of the mines in Australia see this,
“China is leasing huge areas of land in Australia to secure a vital source of mineral resources, the latest sign of its acquisitive approach to the commodities trade.
No longer satisfied with buying iron ore and coal from Australian mining companies, Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton, China is developing its own mining operations, funding a port with a mile-long breakwater jutting into the Indian Ocean.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/12/china-australia-mining-iron-coal
China also owns an undetermined amount of farmland in Australia see this,
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/foreign-affairs/china-land-grab-hidden-by-corporate-veil/story-fn59nm2j-1226748527558
The down side to Australia in a World War scenario is more than likely they would become an occupied Country, most likely by China under the guise of protecting their investments.
The upside to Australia is the low probability of getting hit with a nuke, unlike the United States, that will more than likely get hit, related to the fact we are seen as a World tyrant that needs taken out.
So LLPOH,all in all, Australia is a very good move! NO INCOMING NUKES. Just develop a bug out plan to the outback should all hell break loose. If you need a horse trainer let me know. I am sure I could handle a wild Brumby.
BTW, Are you leaving any children behind?
RU: Sorry to be so clueless but what does G.O.O.D. stand for ?
Thx,
DD
@Dolly,
Get
Out
Of
Dodge
@lpoh
Best of luck to you and yours in your new home. A good friend (r.i.p.), a native New Yorker like myself, made that move many years ago and loved his adopted country as you seem to do as well. I moved to South America eleven years ago after spending most of my adult life outside the US, which I left permanently in 1998. I too am a dual national. I made the move in part because I disliked the direction in which I perceived the US to be headed, in part because I believed I could get more bang for the buck elsewhere, a belief that has been borne out and then some. I did a scaled-down version of what you have done and are doing and find my very rural life an endless delight. I am pushing 70, so distractions and amusements mean little to me now and I have the great good fortune of having my son, his wife (a native Latina) and my grandson right next door. I fear for the future of the US and its citizens, but favor practicality over “idealism”, particularly when the latter may have been imposed by circumstances that make a more daring solution difficult. I believe that one is responsible for one’s own life and choices and leave criticism of those of others to the others themselves.
One wishes the best to one and all who contribute here and hopes they find the best outcomes to their journeys wherever those journeys may take them.
Billy Switzerland?
Steph- Well played, could we expect anything more from Lloph? For all of his self congratulatory bantering about all he has done for his community, this act, loading up all his treasure and hiding, provides significant insight into historical predispositions.
Who here says packing up and running is Patriotic? Thats what this is, as clearly laid out by Lloph himself. Yes, he has been a successful entrepreneur, was it in a vacuum? Is it possible he stood on the shoulders of previous generations of Americans that sacrificed much more than he, to provide the opportunities he enjoyed?
Typical Boomer ‘Me’ bullshit, the sooner this country is rid of this generational cohort the fucking better, please join him. Pack up your treasures and run, cowards, we will be better off in the coming storm without you.
Bravo, Stephanie, your shit flinging took guts, and those of us whom don not flee are going to need guts.
ottomatik congratulates an asinine assault on someone who has done more for this country than he/she will ever do.
How are you making your stand Ottomatik? As a fry cook at McDonalds?
How many Americans are you employing?
You sound like fucking Obama with your bullshit about shoulders of previous generations. Please tell us how Llpoh didn’t build his business. I love that liberal bullshit.
You and Steph deserve each other in your hatred of successful people.
Chicago- “Stephanie, would you have called the Jews and other minorities of Nazi Germany “cowards” for saving their own lives, and fleeing to the U.S. or some other safe haven? ”
Are these the only 2 options?:
1. Willing load your family on trains headed to Treblinka
or
2. Flee
Llpoh
Good luck. I have more than enough to leave. You need substantial funds to find a suitable place, relocate overseas and live comfortably. And there might be a language issue, but I can speak passable Spanish, so my choices are broader.
I could easily do it, but I won’t. My wife and family are all here with me and would not agree plus I’m older than you and more set in my ways. And I love America, as I’m sure you do.
That said, you have worked hard and planned well. I hope everything works out well for you.
Great thread everyone. Stephanie opens the door on comment #2 and rolls a hand grenade into the room. Admin goes off like a Roman Candle just like the old days. I love it.
SSS can’t leave the country because he might break a hip and he’s still dedicated to his passion – breaking 120.
Been to Oz many times; can’t blame you at all for moving there. If I didn’t have my land’s DNA in my veins, I’d be getting out, too. May still, if things go too far. I do believe the window for doing so is closing… much like the Soviet Union, we will eventually not have the option.
What a great testament to all your hard work, perseverance and foresight. Hope you’ll share with us how it goes.
Llpoh – Just read your post and find myself very impressed and envious at the same time. Kudos to you and your wife for having the foresight to be able to see into the future, come up with a plan and then have the diligence to execute through action. Through hard work you have created the resources to afford to make such a drastic move and in my thinking have every right to live and take care of your family wherever you please. That is freedom after all. To me the thing that makes the whole thing work is being able to include your kids and bring them with. That would be the deal breaker for our family, if it meant not being able to see our kids and their families regularly, a move like what you are doing would be a on-starter.
All the best for your future in Austrailia and look forward to reading about how things work out.
Llpoh out on the town.
How Llpoh will spend his peaceful days of retirement.
I believe most all the working, productive people want to leave the US – one way (really leave) or another (secession).
If things keep going the way they are now I see more and more the possibility of some states seceding. Maybe not the Civil War type secession, but rather just telling Washington to stick their laws up their ass. Maybe Texas will have it’s own border patrol, and building it’s own fence – stuff like that.
What will be left is the FSA. Then the rest of the states will look a shit hole – Philly, Camden, NYC, etc.
Admin, Easy, you dont know me.
“ottomatik congratulates an asinine assault on someone who has done more for this country than he/she will ever do.” completely fallacious, how could you know, pompous presumption, your not the Oracle.
“How are you making your stand Ottomatik? As a fry cook at McDonalds?” No, weak. As a devoted member of my community, which I was born into and lived my whole life.
“How many Americans are you employing?” 15 full time, down from 20 something before 2008, how fucking many are you employing? Oh, sorry, you must not be a good American, ridiculous.
“You sound like fucking Obama with your bullshit about shoulders of previous generations. ” Yeah, well I guess all of the Motherfuckers who gave their lives, or worked their fingers to the bone, or who lived within their means to make this a better place for future generations like Stephanie don’t deserve shit for recognition or validation huh? Me Me Me!
“You and Steph deserve each other in your hatred of successful people.” Ha, trite beyond description. I am surrounded by successful people, whom I love and admire. We have no empathy for the plight of cowards whom would rather kick back with a brewski after getting theirs, rather than rolling up the sleeves and paying it forward.
Ottomatik has a problem with me judging him. Ain’t that a hoot after he shits all over Llpoh.
People didn’t work their fingers to the bone for future generations. What fucking fantasy planet do you live on?
Some Americans (not many) work their fingers to the bone to make a better life for themselves and their families. Individual intelligence, hard work, persistence and risk taking are what allow people to get ahead. I’m not working hard for you or your family. I don’t give a flying fuck about you.
Llpoh has been the model of what an American should do. And you have the balls to side with Steph who is nothing but a whiny bitch blaming everyone else for her failures. The Boomers have kept her from getting an education and being a successful entrepreneur.
I’m sure it’s the Boomers fault for your business being down 25% from 2008. Maybe you should have anticipated the downturn and prepared.
Calling Llpoh a coward reveals you to be a small minded douchebag. I know you.
“We have no empathy for the plight of cowards whom would rather kick back with a brewski after getting theirs, rather than rolling up the sleeves and paying it forward.”
Yup, describing the Boomer cohort pretty well.
People didn’t work their fingers to the bone for future generations….in America.
There, I fixed it for ya.
Where do people work their fingers to the bone for future generations Steph?
Why don’t you move to this fantasyland?
I’m sure you’d be a success without working hard. Isn’t that the Millennial expectation, since you love to talk about cohorts?
So you don’t work your fingers to the bone for your sons, and grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. What, they graduate college and then adios?
You really are missing the comprehension gene. We know you can’t write, but you can’t read either?
“Some Americans (not many) work their fingers to the bone to make a better life for themselves and their families.”
I work hard for me and my family. It will be up to my sons to work hard for their families. Everyone has to make their own way in this world.
I’m certainly not working hard to support you and ottomatik and the millions of Free Shit Army battalions.
@Llpoh, America will miss you and your kind, of course that won’t be for a long time as for now you (and I, and others) remain the “evil businessmen” that don’t deserve to capitalize on a lifetime of risk and hardwork.
These people NEVER state the same for the public/union employee that retires on OUR backs with 20 or 25 years of – essentially, compared to so many of us private workers – part time work. THEY deserve, hell, are ENTITLED to their pensions.
You, on the other hand, are a coward for wanting to take part of what you have worked your ass off for.
I see it all the damn time, especially in a union-heavily-influenced state like Michigan.
I wish you, and yours, nothing but the best. I hope the worst of it misses you all and I hope you live out the end of your days surrounded by those you love.
And, finally, dah-aym am I jealous! Hugs friend.
First off, congratulations Llpoh!! Second, I know you made the best choice for your circumstances, but New Zealand is the best choice IMHOof the two for reasons we can discuss some other time, but one of which is how similar Oz is becoming to the U.S., especially when contrasted with Kiwiland. 🙂 On the other hand, making a choice for Oz, especially as a citizen, lets you freely go back and forth to New Zealand so “good on ya” as they see in these parts, no effective difference for you!! And, with you being relatively close, looking forward to meeting you at some point.
FOR THOSE WHO SAY IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY:
This is not necessarily true. If you are young, your options are greatly expanded for Oz and NZ. If you have one of numerous wanted skills, this helps for Oz and NZ. The cut off age (unless it has changed) for Oz using skills to get in is 45 and it is 57 in NZ. We used our skills to get into NZ (very blessed with having the right ones at the right time), I found a job and we moved!
There is a lot of paper work red tape involved, but it is only “trying” for those who are not sufficiently motivated. My wife and I used to joke about that is one way NZ sees how serious you are, making you jump through the hoops. That said, NZ is much more efficient and responsive in their bureaucratic requirements than the U.S. As I had all our ducks in a row, it was a matter of laying out the documentation in a clear fashion and we had nary a glitch. The worst glitch we had was waiting for the crime report to come back from the FBI, they take quite a while (NZ wants this to make sure you are not a criminal, at least one that has made it to the federal level!) And that was U.S., not NZ.
The younger you are, the less skills you are going to require. In fact, you can go on a one year workng holiday in NZ plus the same in Oz if you are under 30, assess the situation and maybe find a job/sponsor that will end up letting you stay in the country even without the skills.
Also, if you did it our way and line up a job, you only need enough money to get over here and survive until you get paid! We cashed out stuff, took the massive tax hit, paid off our mortgage and paid for a shipping container and had some $ left over but not near what we should have at our age. It is still possible to get all your personal possessions safely out and over on a container with no taxes or duties due and, depending on what those are, those things might hold some good value as well. Anyway, we did not have the long range foresight that Llpoh dd in our younger years, being sucked into the American matrix, but woke ourselves up and exited from it.
You can too. For relatively little money. You just need to want to bad enough!
There are also other ways to live elsewhere if you have more $ but are not really rich, these include starting a business that is successful for 3 years and employs 2 or 3 kiwis or depositing enough $ into the system over here (still not truly rich but much better off than most Americans, this can be done for less than $1 million U.S.)
Congrats Llpoh, sounds like you’ve been planning for a long while and I always admire folks that put their money where their mouth is.
While I’ve never been to Australia I’ve heard good things. That said I also know an American couple that relocated down under for the wrong reasons – their overly generous social safety net. Not sure on the details of how they did it but on their most recent visit to the states they were not short on words for all the praise of what the Aussie gov’t is “giving them.”
That’s my problem with “1st world” bug out locations. Sure old commonwealth countries like Australia and Canada may fly under the radar in the geopolitical scheme and are pretty nice places but they are generally not different from the America wolf-sheep analogy aside from total population #’s. There are takers everywhere in the world, and plenty more any place where there is gov’t mandated generosity. Not saying “under developed” nations are better but aside from Antarctica there are takers everywhere you go.
Anyway, best of luck and someday I hope to visit your adopted homeland.
Fine,
Although I know, or more accurately have known many whom have sacrificed for the future, even your future.
As far as the coward descriptor goes…sorry but I could hear the fear in his prose. If there was not his big list, then he would be staying here. He has constantly mimed, and supported your predictions of the big storm, obviously he is packing up and fleeing. Prudent to some, cowardly to others.
He is always selling us on his value as an entrepreneur and a leader( inferred), so, should we all follow the leader?
You seem to be selling the run, hide, enjoy, meme. Is that what past Americans have done in past Fourth Turnings, to breathe fresh life into the American spirit? Or is this just for those successful enough to ‘bug out’ with style?
ottomatik
No one is selling anything. This is a fucking blog with people who comment about their opinions, circumstances, fears, and life stories. It’s a forum where people can learn from others. Or in Steph’s case, not learn. Llpoh hasn’t sold anything or declared himself a leader of the new revolution.
Instead of shitting on men who have lived their life like every American should, why don’t you fill the void and be the leader of the new revolution. What’s stopping you? How does llpoh’s retirement plans impact you in any way?
The vitriol, jealousy and anger of Millennials doesn’t give me too much hope they will step up to the plate and do the heavy lifting during this Fourth Turning. You and Steph do remember that the Hero generation does the hard work. Right?
Or did you conveniently forget that part?
For every Snowden, there seems to be a million Stephs.
Ottomatik, yes, by the late 30s, your only choice, as a Jew, a gyspsy, or a member of any other group targeted by the Nazis, was to either flee, or be loaded into a box car.
The smart people saw what was happening by 1933, when Jews could not even sit in their own gardens of an evening, or practice in their chosen professions.
These smart ones knew also that once a strong trend is in place, that you can’t buck it- all you can do is wait until it exhausts itself, as anyone who has tried to short equities in the past couple of years on the premise that the valuations are just too ridiculous, can tell you.
I wish I had the wherewithal to establish a beachhead for myself and my family in a country like Australia, in case of the worst. But I don’t, so all I can do is fight to improve my own position here, and to improve my neighborhood and city- you might say good luck with all that given this city’s current financial condition.
What I will for no argument do, is run blindly toward whatever place rumor tells me is better when things fall apart, because when things really unravel, you are much better off in the place you’ve lived for decades and have numerous family members, friends, and business associations than you are suddenly showing up in some place where people have never heard of you, and where you have nothing. Ilpoh has spent decades establishing a real home in Australia where he now knows people and has resources and property. Don’t go anyplace where you don’t have that.
Chicago-“Ottomatik, yes, by the late 30s, your only choice, as a Jew, a gyspsy, or a member of any other group targeted by the Nazis, was to either flee, or be loaded into a box car.”
No. ZOB. here…http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007745
Admin-“I’m certainly not working hard to support you and ottomatik and the millions of Free Shit Army battalions.”
I don’t take handouts, thank you though. I wasnt raised up like that, but me and my kin are thankful for what those that came before us built and paid forward and try not to shrink from the responsibility of doin the same.
ottomatik
So Llpoh is a coward, even though he is one of those who came before you, built the country, paid millions in taxes, employed dozens of Americans, accepted personal responsibility for his life, and followed all the rules.
OK. Now I understand your position perfectly.
I step up where I can, when I can, and work as hard as most, I have no plan to flee the storm, and I could. Costa Rica would be my choice, but as fucked up as it is I love America, not the Fascist that have hijacked it, but the America we all have known or glimpsed.
Shit, I know what is coming, all here do, or at least acknowledge its distinct possibility. I would stand up for Lloph’s right to flee, to the end.
I imagine when the Roman empire was collapsing those with the resources found a mountaintop out in the country to build their keep. I also imagine the bulk of people left behind were as clueless, mesmerized by the bread and circuses and the lies and propaganda, as most of the sheeple are now.
What I don’t have a good idea of is how those in the middle made out – aware of the inevitable but obliged to stay.
European society didn’t disappear and perhaps the “dark ages” weren’t as bad as we’ve been led to believe.
One can hope.
Admin,
His accomplishments took guts and hard work, for all I know. Call it retiring, call it running, its all perspective. He has been one of the most vociferous on this collapse blog and in that light, his actions are, well cowardly. He is spent and can not take it anymore, I get it, who has the energy to stand against the tyrannical juggernaut assembling before us? I personally cannot condone the run, hide, enjoy meme, even as fearful as I am about the future.
ottomatik
OK then. You are now the fearless courageous leader of the TBP army. What should we do? Where are you leading us? What’s the plan oh fearless leader?
We breathlessly await your wisdom and guidance.
LLPOH, I wish you and your family the best of luck. As I see it, you are being driven from this country, in the exact same way I was driven from Philadelphia. I got tired of having a target on my back, both as a fleeced taxpayer and a landlord. I am fortunate enough to have had the funds to do so. Even though I sold my unit years ago, I am still getting threatening letters from the city “treasury” about some form or other I failed to file, even though I have filed it multiple times. My accountant tears his hair out over it. I can scarcely imagine how you as a business owner and employer have been harassed by “Uncle” Sam.
I have contemplated leaving also, and if I didn’t like Maine so much, I would have left already. Ireland and Nova Scotia were on the short list. The United States might as well be run by a foreign country because that’s what it feels like.
Incidentally, great essay. Tip of the top hat to you sir.
@llpoh, good luck. I don’t blame you, though it wouldn’t be my choice. I’ve taken a serious look at moving to various grass-is-greener countries (including Australia, NZ, Canada, and a couple European nations) and have decided that, for me, it’s not the right choice. One of my greatest concerns is point #1 raised by dc.sunsets – the SHTF day is coming soon, and while the USA might be the cause and center of attention (the world’s biggest fan!), the worst impact of the S may fall elsewhere. For example, what did Poland and Ukraine do to deserve their WWII fates? Or the various tropical islands mentioned.
My crystal ball is that Australia and New Zealand will be under much more influence of China going forward, which may be tolerable but likely no picnic. Or they might be significant battlegrounds in a coming WW3. Especially with the US basing more troops in Australia. I don’t like the prospects for Australia in an age where international trade is highly limited and oil scarce.
I’ve been away for months now, working on my own move. I’m remaining within the FUSA, but at the very fringes of empire, where Sauron’s eye can barely reach from Mordor on the Potomac. Obviously I’m hoping this is a good move in many ways. Time will tell.
Lloph….. God’s Speed
Lloph- We have certainly had our dust ups in the past, no grudges held, as has been the tradition here. That said, I do wish you the best in your future endeavors and travels. If anything, my comments here represent a disappointment that, Men of Caliber, will be fewer in number when the shit hits the fan.
I do appreciate your sentiment that you will no longer be feeding the beast, and thanks for putting together the essay, fueling the shit fest.
America is screwed. Between the FSA which is greater than 50% of the population, and the rest who have been brain washed in government schools They have been dumbed down, taught to sit quietly, put up with PC rules, put up with the ass hole administrators.
Can you believe that our elected leaders have created a country within a country? 30,000 Somail’s in Minneapolis, 66,000 Hmong in Minnesota, 13,000,000 illegal Mexicans in the US.
WTF – this is taking money right out our pockets! And nobody takes any action. The government is giving the country away. Nobody speaks up about this, the legislature does nothing – this tells me we’re done.
We have nobody left that is going to speak up. The US will continue to get more and more socialist, with less freedoms, and more and more rules / laws. I don’t believe the 4th turning will ever happen.
Probably OZ and NZ are 50 years behind us.
@Dutchman, no one has to “speak up” for a turning to happen.
It will happen, the only “Ifs” are when and how.
Americans just don’t understand. We no longer own our food supply chain, or our health, or even our homes and property.
At some point one of those systems will fail spectacularly, and the turning will really heat up as we go to war with ourselves.
By watching the news I see they want me to hate the young, the old, the black, the immigrant, the pro-choicer or pro-lifer, hatred is imbedded and reinforced.
When store shelves go empty – and really, do we think China will continue shipping us apple juice, pasta and insulin if they are at war with us? – you will see.
I doubt those of us that survive will even recognize America, or the world, in 20 years.
I so hope I’m wrong. Pray I’m wrong.
@ottomatik
Am I correct in assuming you do not equate expatriation with flight? It appears you and others feel that anyone who leaves the birth country is running away. If one takes that assumption to its extreme, one shouldn’t leave one’s home town lest one be considered a deserter. One seizes opportunity where one finds it and it often takes more courage to take the concomitant risks related to moving someplace and starting anew than it does to stay in place unless one is truly compelled by circumstance (family obligations, e.g.) to do so.
Don’t know exactly what called it to mind, but I suddenly saw in memory’s eye the final scene of a marvelous b&w movie from the early 60s: “Hud”. The eponymous title character is a selfish wastrel who inherits his father’s ranch after the older man’s untimely death following the son’s decision to have the honest old gent declared mentally incompetent. Hud’s nephew, a decent sort, decides not to stay on with the new owner and one sees him head out into the wastes of west Texas with a suitcase, venturing into the unknown rather than “stick it out” in a miserable situation in a miserable place “governed” by a miserable stay-at-home.
The kid had high principles but knew a losing hand when he saw one, so he walked away; didn’t run, mind you, he walked. It’s not easy and the older one grows, the less easy it becomes. That comment is drawn from the perspective of age and experience, a necessary perspective when one even considers attempting to judge the actions of others.
Admin- I can only suggest that we all integrate ourselves into our local communities as much as possible. Spend our money as close to home as possible, supporting our families, friends, neighbors, and fellow Americans as much as possible. Flippant, I know.
Our embracing of debt and eschewing of self reliance has been the main lever used to pry power away from the middle class. If we were a nation of (actual) Homeowners, and entrepreneurs, I cannot help but think we would be in better shape. Much of this I have learned here.
I cannot lead in any capacity other than example, and I will continue to refine my concept of citizenship around these interactions and the information I find here. Not in Australia.
Montefrio- I am not sure how best to respond.
We all (here) see it coming. It is a most personal decision on how to prepare for it. I will support the right for each to do as he/she feels is best, emphatically. That said it is clear that America is going to need somebody to stand up for her. Do not think she has not been right here before, she has, and we are living with the decisions past Americans have made. I can only hope enough awaken and find the courage to steer her on a proper course in the coming storm, which is clearly upon us.
LLpoh, congrats and Godspeed. You have nothing for which to apologize and I have a strong feeling that the Southern Hemisphere is going to be the place to be in the years and decades to come. Wisdom and cowardice may appear similar at times, but you are clearly demonstrating the former. To Steph and others of similar viewpoint I ask this: what America are you fighting (or going to fight) for, America the people, America the government, America the land or America the idea. Of the four, only the last is worthy and even the idea of America has become warped, twisted and corrupted by generations of neglect. Besides, the idea of America (liberty, independence, self-governance) can be fought for anywhere at any time. The land is certainly beautiful, but I highly doubt it is any more so than that in Australia. IMO all land that is left unspoiled is beautiful. The government? Fuggedaboudit–this is “our” greatest enemy. That leaves only the people, but the problem is there IS not American people anymore… we are simply a hodgepodge of various mobs and special interest groups. Just as there is no American culture anymore…there are dozens of silly demographic groups masquerading as mini-cultures, that more often than not like to fling mindless insults at each other over the most trivial of issues. The America we live in is a failed state, an empire in its final stages of collapse. No one should feel any particular obligation to fight for it…the fight for those who do remain here is for the idea of America reborn sometime in the hopefully not too distant future.
From what I have read in the past and a few people have told me.Australia would not have been my choice. But people are still free to live where they want. I think life here will just get harder.Every day there seems to be a new law or a freedom lost. There will be a lot of civil unrest when many wake up and figure out they are screwed and they can’t afford what has been taken for granted for years.
Housing, energy,food and transportation costs will drive the coming riots. Not to mention a government that doesn’t represent the peoples wishes anymore. Maybe an economic collapse.
Lots of people are leaving the country. Or at least preparing for what is coming. I tell people to do the best they can.
@ottomatik
Thank you for your response. I grew up in the US during the 50s and 60s, but curiosity impelled me to leave in the 70s and I liked what I encountered elsewhere, so stayed overseas when it was still relatively easy to do so. I liked less what I encountered upon my return to the US in the mid-eighties and began planning an exit once family obligations and war chest accumulation goals had been met.
I agree with you that the America of yore and would-that-it-could-be-again needs those willing to stand up for her, but if I may make a suggestion, quoting an old saw you likely know: “You can kill more flies with honey…” . Bear in mind also that while courage is required, it may not be enough to carry the day. Another old saw at times is worthy of consideration: “Discretion is the better part of valor”. But best of luck in the worthy pursuit of doing what you can to see the country put back on course.
P.S. ¿Por qué Costa Rica? Tiene una cocina muy insulsa y hay otros países bastante más interesantes.
Montefrio- Yes, discretion is there better part of valor, im not looking for valor, so I plan on heeding your advise and use plenty of discretion, but I am staying here, battening down, making the adjustments and weathering the storm. Also, I love honey and have been talking with local apiarists about getting a colony going.
I know not that kind of honey, but maybe it is….
P.S. Me encantan las playas de Mal País y tienen aquaintences que me ayudarían a instalarse y encontrar algún empleo . Pura Vida mi amigo.
Wow, what a thread of comments. My sincere thanks for all the kindness shown.
Many folks – TE as case in point – has a real sense of what I am feeling. One of the key drivers of what I am doing is, besides being a tax slave, I generally feel most folks no longer respect or admire small businessmen and women. Quite the contrary. They take from you your taxes, and hate you as well. It is most unpalatable.
Re Australia – we love desert. It is my favorite type of landscape. Australia is covered in it.
Re New Zealand – with Australian citizenship comes the right to live in NZ. Maybe spend some summers there. It is a fine country.
Re those couple saying I should stay and fight: who would I fight? When? How? I am pushing 60. I have done what I believe I can.
Time to pass the buck to the next folks. I wish it were a more valuable buck, but the ills the country has are not of my making – quite the contrary. I have done what I could. It was not enough, as there are too few doing what they can. Too many takers, bankers, corrupt politicians, govt drones. My blood has been sucked, and I am bone dry and tired of the process.
Damn, I have missed the Admin kicking ass. He is a true champion. He can lay waste to all and sundry.
Llpoh
It’s funny. Anyone who wasn’t here 4 or 5 years ago missed some of the nastiest exchanges ever seen in the blogosphere. And many of the exchanges were between you and I. If Steph and Ottomatik think my comments were mean, they would cower in a corner when you, me, Stuck, Smokey, Davos, Colma, and AWD would have an all out war. Those were the days.
We’ve both mellowed. I can even admit you were right about OWS.