The Civil War was fought over State’s Rights! The Civil War was fought over Slavery! The Civil War was fought cus’ crackas was tryin’ to keep a brotha down! What a load of horseshit!
The Civil War was ignited politically because of the State’s Right to succeed and the preservation of the institution of slavery . It is not a one versus the other debate. They were both the cause of the Civil War but that is not why the war was fought. The Civil War was fought because the North and the South were radically different. The old wounds never completely healed because the North and the South STILL have different cultures and economies.
As Americans we can all have a McDonald’s and Walmart in every town but different regions of the country will still see the world differently. The division of the North and South is still apparent in every election when half the country votes for the Blue team and the other half votes for the Red team.
As a Southern I hold the Stars and Bars in the same high esteem as the Stars and Stripes. As a resident of Alabama I consider myself a current citizen of Alabama above being a citizen of the United States. As a native Texan I consider myself a citizen of the Lone Star State above being a current citizen of Alabama above being a citizen of the United States.
This is what State’s Rights means to me. Being a citizen of a individual State above being a citizen of the collective States.The United States was originally founded as a confederacy. A confederacy is defined as a collection of states for the common action of similar states.
It wasn’t until after the American Revolution the Articles of Confederation was replaced with the Constitution under a stronger influence of the Federal Government. This changed the country into a Federalist system while many Southern states from the Revolutionary War wanted to remain a Confederation.
The debate of the importance of the Federal Government is still ongoing and creating a new divide. By being a citizen of the United States I am automatically a participant in the Federalist system. The Federal Government rules over every State and the power is concentrated in the hands of 535 people. Considering the United States is inhabited by over 300,0000,000 citizens this concentration of power is going to create a new divide over the role of the Federal Government. Except this time I doubt it is solely the Southern state who want to return to a confederacy and limit the role of the Federal Government.
In Part Two I will be discussing the Articles Of Confederation, Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers.
I agree 100% and I’m from the north but have lived in TX, NM and now live in VA.
The slavery thing is a crock and I am tired of them pushing this guilt on the good people of the south. By the way, in 1909 there was a black people exhibit in the Bronx Zoo (that’s in NY folks). Slaves were better taken care of by their owners than were poor European immigrants up north (they were free!). Plus, most (almost all) of the Rebel soldiers who fought were not slaveowners. They were patriots defending their homeland against an aggressor who wanted their resources, to force a central bank and it’s currency and those beautiful southern women.
S.C. governor to call for removal of Confederate flag: report
By Robert Schroeder
Published: June 22, 2015 1:27 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley will call for removing the Confederate flag from the Statehouse grounds later Monday, the Post & Courier reported. Haley, a Republican, will call for the flag’s removal in the wake of the killings of nine people at a historic African-American church in Charleston last week. Haley has a news conference scheduled for 4 p.m. Eastern. Removing the flag from the grounds would require a two-thirds vote in the state House and Senate.
Southerners were fighting for freedom from greedy tyrannical Northern Political Masters and the North was fighting to keep their Southern Colonies enslaved. . Next time, Conservatives will be fighting for their lives. There won’t be a Ft Sumter because there will be millions of Communist and terrorist looting and burning down urban jungles everywhere. Obama will blame the Right Wing Christian Extremist and deny all responsibility. The winners will write the history.
It just amazing me how quickly republicans give in to the cultural Marxist of the left. It’s Like they have given up. Kinda like most white people.
Diversity kills nation after nation. Diversity is where nations come to die.Why the white population can’t understand this is beyond me. It is so very frustrating.
Hilary is a ‘damn Yankee’!
Steph, my millennial babe. In the first paragraph you say. “The Civil War was fought over Slavery…(is) a load of horseshit”. In the second paragraph you say, “The Civil War was ignited politically… (for) the preservation of the institution of slavery”. Huh? Say again? And “…North and the South were radically different.” duh! Yes they were different in livelihood and philosophy, but the differences didn’t cause the ‘The War of Southern Liberation’ or the ‘Civil War’ as ya oil call it..
The South was tired of paying ‘tribute’ to the North in the form of tariffs and being forced to buy cheap Northern manufactured goods. The South wanted to leave the Union for its own self interest, keeping their money and buying better quality goods from England. England wanted the cotton.
Most of the federal government was funded by these tariffs, about 75%. To lose the Southern tariffs would have crippled the federal government. More on this, read the following and learn the truth:
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2013/June/37/6/magazine/article/12309/
Lincoln’s and Sherman’s desire to punish the South for wanting to leave the Union and conduct their own business based upon their own needs is one reason for the hatred after the ‘Civil War’. The other is the Connecticut Yankees that came down to the South to raped and pillage. Carpet Baggers to this day, carries a negative connotation. History has a memory.
Steph keep up the good work.
Homer- The horseshit part is the over simplification that it was a one or the other. They were both the political spark to light the fuse. The reason the war was fought with such an intensity in a short number of years because they were radically different.
The post Article of Confederation started the divide in my opinion, but it was really the Reconstruction Era that created the lingering animosity that lead to the creation of the KKK.
Hey OP – it’s secede – not succeed.
Everyone’s shaking like a dog shitting peach pits, but this is how a people are erased. Been happening since, well, forever…
One people replaces another, the first thing that happens is their symbols are torn down. Then the statues of their heroes are pulled down. Then their histories are rewritten, the previous histories destroyed or repressed. Soon, nobody knows the old histories anymore, nobody remembers the old names…
Look at what’s happening in South Africa. Flag hauled down, statues pulled down, streets and schools renamed… they are where we will be in a few years…
When one group of people replaces another, it’s what happens.
To see it in modern pop culture, see below… Xerxes sought to wipe the Greeks out via naked aggression. The cultural Marxists seek to wipe us out via crawling their craven asses to the government and sniveling – having the government do with their alleged monopoly on sanctioned violence and imprisonment (and threat thereof). They wouldn’t dare dirty their hands doing their own shit labor and risk their precious skin – but they have no problem getting goons to do their work for them…
Pay special attention to Xerxes after the 3 minute mark…
Hey OP – it’s secede – not succeed.
Ha, ha, ha. But they wanted to succeed too! Happy accident.
All Black colleges should be required to fly the Confederate flag because they are relics of that Era. If they don’t like it, then they should fully integrate like real colleges.
OK. Guess I am compelled to comment. Sad to see the flag taken down, but as a law enforcement buddy of mine commented once, do you think one single Confederate soldier would want this flag to fly over a country that tolerates Miley Cyrus, the Kardashians, Obama, the Neo-Cons, Bill Ayers and the rest of the human sewage washing over America? Hell no. If you wish, fly the Confederate flag in your heart (as I do) but right now EVERY real American needs to stand by Old Glory until we can wrest the country back from the liberal-left-Progressive traitors and usurpers. All real Americans must stand united until that day – there is much justice to be meted out to this filth. Then, if we want, we can go back to playing Yankees and Rebs.
Steph–“The reason the war was fought with such an intensity in a short number of years because they were radically different.” I don’t get the connection.
Of course, I only went as far as the fourth grade. I would have gone to the fifth grade, but I didn’t want to pass my Dad.
The war wasn’t any more intense than any other great war. About 800,000 people died in the Civil War and the bulk of these was from disease.
Japan during WWII had a Battle Flag and a Country Flag which they use today. I wasn’t aware that the South (confederate States) had two flags.
The New Age fuzzy thinking is that symbols have power. they don’t. Power emanates from the belief structure that people hold. You can destroy the the Confederate Flag and it won’t make any difference in peoples behavior. You must change the beliefs system to have any effect on behavior.
Most people will still have their beliefs whether the flag flies over the capitol or not. It is just the nonsense of fuzzy, political correct thinking.
Roof’s belief system was based upon a historic fallacy, that the ‘Civil War’ was about slavery and that the Negro is the cause of our problems today, an inaccurate and simplistic belief. There is a Civil War myth that is part of the common culture that we accept as the truth and which many of us have bought into.
Be careful what you believe.
I’m from the South. Born and Raised. I grew up with the Confederacy, the War of Northern Aggression, and all that. And I’ve lived other places, too. I love the South and Her traditions, for the most part. And I’ve read a bit about the Silly War.
First thing in my opinion, like a lot of momentous things in American history, the South did not secede out of the strong heart-felt principles we hearken to today. From what I’ve read and digested, it seems like a bunch of hotheaded rabble pretty much pushed us there. I’ve been reading The Civil War Day-By-Day lately and it is a good account of day-to-day events from the Lincoln election to the end of the war. When you read about what “activists” were doing to push SC to secede, it reads more like a bunch of drunken assholes forcing the issue. I love the South, but a lot of secession seems like a bunch of half-cocked rabble who had no idea what they were doing and how it would turn out. The war started with a whole lot of ignorance. If you read up on the first shots of the Revolution, it’s the same story. Much as I love America’s founding ideals, when you look at what was actually happening on the ground prior to the war, it seems like a bunch of rowdy hotheads got things rolling. For instance, I forget which book on my shelf pointed out how hard the British were trying NOT to stir up trouble, but the hotheads brought it to them. I was reminded of our troops in Iraq who tried to honor local cultural sensibilities, but the locals still got mad all the same. i.e. The Brits were ordered not to mess with the locals, but on Sundays they had full uniform review, which offended the hyper-Christian sensibilities of the locals, causing them to curse the Brits as Godless occupiers. These same hotheads are going to be who get us into our next civil war, like when a bunch of rednecks see Army soldiers on patrol in public next month on maneuvers during Operation Jade Helm and decide to take on the New World Order, shoot some dumb PVT from New York who has no idea what’s going on, and trigger a massive standoff with the Feds which gets even more hotheads up in arms and suddenly it’s open season on Federales and all-out chaos in the Heartland.
Second thing. Yes, the South fought for States Rights, but the part we tend to gloss over is how those rights were specifically the States’ Rights to hold Slaves. There was no other “right” to contend over and you can’t deny the founding documents of the CSA and the founding speech by Davis seems to make that point and how the founding state constitutions also underline it. As a Southerner, it was a bit bitter for me to make that admission to myself, but you can’t deny it-it’s written right into the founding documents of the South.
Third thing- While the CSA was fighting to own slaves, which they were right was their right at the time, the North violated pretty much all of the Constitution in the process of trying to keep the union together. Lincoln was a dictator. He also forced the issue of the war and stubbornly refused to even meet with the Southerners trying to stop the war.
Fourth thing- When PC Yankees and ignorant fools proclaim the war was fought over slavery and to free the slaves, they look like massive idiots. You can read numerous statements from Lincoln on down to all the congressmen who stated they had no intention of changing slavery, only limiting it from further spread. Lincoln, himself, famously stated he would have kept slavery if it would have kept the South in the union.
Fifth thing-As a pro-Southerner who loves the state of his birth and the heritage of his homeland, I have a problem with all the dudes who fly the so-called Confederate Flag. Why do people insist on flying that flag in particular? I’ve got a couple, but I don’t feel the need to fly them. What I used to keep on my wall was the Stars and Bars in nice 100% cotton, not that cheap nylon crap. That’s the real Confederate Flag and I’ve never understood why fans of the South would ignore that one for the War Flag. I kind of feel like that flag has been turned into a symbol of something other than the South and it’s original meaning has been replaced with a more modern, more ignorant one that pretty much equals hate for most people who see it. I guess since most people don’t know what the real Confederate Flag is, they can’t get angry when they see it. And why doesn’t anyone fly the Bonnie Blue Flag? That was the first flag of the South before there was a CSA. [img
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6th and final thing- Demanding SC pull down its Confederate Battle Flag is stupid. I can understand lefties want to get rid of the flag. What I can’t understand is why anyone outside of SC gets a say in the matter. I also can’t understand why they can’t wait for the dead to be buried before trying to capitalize on their passing for personal political gain. It’s ghoulish. The bodies were still warm when they started demanding the flag come down. We also didn’t even know the whole story when the calls for change started on CNN. As if the flag was what forced the kid to kill people. He was wearing Afrikaaner and Rhodesian flags on his coat, not Southern ones. Shall we pull down the Afrikaaner flags from the SC statehouse, too? Cuz’ I haven’t seen any. If you’re not a SC resident, you don’t get a say. And to circle around on SC to demand they change something is the real irony of this whole thing. I’m sure SC will knuckle down and change this time, but it is kind of ironic the state where the CSA started as a rebellion against outside authority will buckle in response to it.
“The reason the war was fought with such an intensity in a short number of years because they were radically different.” I don’t get the connection.
That is why there is multiple parts to this article.
robert h siddell jr–The right to associate has the inherent corollary which is the right not to associate.
If there wasn’t a need for black colleges, there wouldn’t be any.
“All Black colleges should be required to fly the Confederate flag…” Still wedded to force, are you?
The whole issues is being pushed for no other reason that it is another way to divide the American people into opposing sides.
Never let a crisis go to waste, if you don’t have one when you need one then create it.
Anonymous–Yes I believe so. I’m for cooperation and respect.
About 800,000 people died in the Civil War and the bulk of these was from disease.
Prove it. Until recently, the number of combat deaths stood at just over 600,000. It was revised up to somewhere between a low of 650,000 to a high of 850,000.
If they didn’t even know how many died during the war, how can you say with any degree of certainty that “the bulk of these was from disease”?
And the South didn’t have two flags. We had 5.
1. First Official Confederate – aka “Stars and Bars”
2. Confederate Battle flag
3. Second Official Confederate – aka the “Stainless banner” or “The Southern Cross”.
4. Third Official Confederate
5. Confederate Navy Jack – oddly, this is the most recognized Confederate flag and the one most associated with the South. The one in SC is the square battle flag.
This is not counting “unofficial” flags like the Bonnie Blue.
Billy I didn’t know there were so many flags used by the Confederacy.
650-850 died is the consensus. Prove what? That they dies from disease? Diseases just at Andersonville POW camp are as follows:
Abscess, Anasarca, Ascites,Asphyxia,Catarrh,Constipation,Diarrhea,Diphtheria,Dysentery,Erysipelas,
Gastritis, Hemorrhoids,Hepatitis,Hydrocele, Icterus, Laryngitis, Nephritis, Pleurisy, Rubeola, Scurvy,
Smallpox, Tonsillitis, Typhoid, Ulcus. You can also add gangrenous tissue and, of course, lead poisoning.
J. David Hacker, a demographic historian,wrote …the data suggested that 650,000 to 850,000 men died as a result of the war… Not including civilians.
http://www.civilwar.org/education/pdfs/civil-was-curriculum-medicine.pdf%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.civilwar.org
/education/pdfs/civil-was-curriculum-medicine.pdf[/img]
Put that in you pipe and smoke it.
Billy–Try this link to a pdf. I tried above but it didn’t come thru.
“Two thirds died of disease not wounds.”
http://www.civilwar.org/education/pdfs/civil-was-curriculum-medicine.pdf
Billy–
Disease
Disease killed more than 400,000 soldiers in the Civil War, according to the University of Houston’s Digital History website. Dysentery was the most common fatal disease, according to the Civil War Preservation Trust. Soldiers also died from typhoid fever, a bacterial disease transmitted by lice, as well as malaria, pneumonia, smallpox and yellow fever. Several factors contributed to the spread of disease, including poor hygiene, spoiled food, impure water, lack of medical knowledge and lack of surgeons.
http://classroom.synonym.com/biggest-causes-death-soldiers-during-civil-war-19455.html
Goddammit! Where the fuck are my posts going??!
”
Civil War Casualties
Casualties Numbers And Battle Death Statistics For the American Civil War
Civil War Casualties At Antietam
Civil War Casualties At Antietam
Though the number of killed and wounded in the Civil War is not known precisely, most sources agree that the total number killed was between 640,000 and 700,000. (See article below)
Union Civil War Casualties
Combat Deaths: Over 110,000
Other Deaths*: Over 250,000
Confederate Civil War Casualties
Combat Deaths: Over 95,000
Other Deaths*: Over 165,000
(*Other Deaths include, among others: disease (by far the most common cause of death), accidents, drowning, heat stroke, suicide, murder, execution.)”
http://www.civilwar.org/education/pdfs/civil-was-curriculum-medicine.pdf
Etc. Seems common theory is that 2/3 of civil war deaths were from disease.
FUCK!!!!!
WHY can’t I post a goddamned thing?!? I try to post and nothing fuckin happens… I try again, and it tells me it already posted it and that I’m posting a duplicate…
WHat the blue fuck, Jim? Some kind of mojo going on that we need to know about?
Dear readers I’m not one to posit false data or exaggerated claims. I’m usually right, although, on occasion, I am a little less right than I ought to be.
This better fuckin work… I am on my last goddamned nerve…
Homer,
It is just, fair and proper that anything posted here can be challenged with regards to accuracy. You’re not special nor are you exempt. Calm your tits.
The same “historians” who have agreed for over a hundred years on the number of dead soldiers – both sides – somehow “missed” somewhere between 50,000 to 150,000 dead all these years (not even counting the high estimate of 850,000…. if I did, the number “missed” by these credentialed monkeys would be closer to a quarter million).
They potentially “missed” a quarter million dead soldiers… you’d think someone would have noticed it. And yet I’m supposed to take their word as Holy Writ on anything else? Heh…
I don’t doubt that a great many died from disease and not as a direct result of battlefield. It’s just that anytime one of these “experts” opines, everyone accepts their utterings as unimpeachable truth… far from it.
And Clams is right re: Mr. Lincoln’s War being fought with such intensity is because of the carved-in-stone law that cultures clash, and the more dissimilar the cultures are, the more alien they are from each other, then the more violent and bloody the clashes are when they occur.
I posted this elsewhere – or at least tried to – it would be worth your time to read it. This article, and the book it links to as well. Might shed a bit of light on things for you.
www(dot)abbevilleinstitute(dot)org/review/monsters-of-virtuous-pretension/
Bill, I know how you feel. I had the same problem with my posts. Now I hit the submit button and keep my fingers crossed.
Yeah, okay, I’m done here…
I’ve tried 6 times to post this shit… all have failed. Tried altering the link over to The Abbeyville Institute – if you want to find it yourself, look up “Monsters of Virtuous Pretension”.
Any further efforts by me to post this will only result in me throwing this laptop out the fucking window…
You all can say whatever you want… I gives about this thread anymore… getting cock-blocked when I want to post something – no matter how many permutations I try – is too goddamned frustrating, so I’m out…
Later.
Well I’ll be dipped in shit… it actually posted…
As a point of reference for Admin ……. zero posting problems on this end.
If you folks are using IE … get the fuck off it. I had nothing but problems with IE …. basically zero problems with Firefox.
Lastly, if you are having problems — like shit you just typed disappearing — write your stuff in Word and then just copy and paste it here. At least you won’t have to retype your hard work.
Just my two cents.
Since when is me typing gibberish hard work?
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Homer, so just what is the justification for the Black colleges that is the reason we still have to have such inferior tax supported racist institutions? Could it be that they are set aside jobs for Black staff, Democrat-Communist training facilities, Black holes for grant graft, and diploma mills for Black students? Black colleges get more tax money per student than real colleges so the taxpayers should have a say; if the politicians voted for flying the Confederate flag, Blacks can suck it up being forced to do something just like the majority have had to suck it up with quotas, sensitivity training, welfare, F’d up public schools, crime, governmental Black this and that. If Blacks don’t want to associate with Whites, turn all the non-fully integrated Black super majority ones into private Black colleges or let all the tax supported colleges set entrance standards based on academic tests and let the racial ratios fall where they belong anyway. Come on back buddy and defend these flagrant inferior Black racist anachronisms.
Off Topic, the justification for any college is that student want to go there. No students, no college.
“Racist institutions”? Those are your word not mine.
Homer, that could be justification for a private business as long as it could pay it’s bills. But suppose the “NY Rackets School” got 50,000 more applications from people with approved government minority student loans who wanted to become professional criminals (bank robbing, drug smuggling, money laundering, prostitution, communist organizing) and the school is granted NY state general revenue taxpayer funding and then adopts the name “NY State Black Associations College”. Would that all be OK with you? :
Off topic again. Private for profit colleges which game the system and abandon their students once the student loan is approved are an abomination. That this hasn’t been addressed by the CONgress speaks volumes of the influence that private corporations have over our elected, ‘bought and paid’ for leaders.
robert, your stretching it.
FWIW, there was no Civil War. The Southern states seceded and the Northern state declared war on them to force them back into their bloody Union. No Southern states tried to take control of the Federal government . The War of Northern Aggression or War between the States more accurately describes the conflict. You’re welcome.
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Homer, you’re avoiding it. Blacks and Black colleges are gaming the system.
I didnt realize this site policed/removed comments…..I do now! So long from Lwr Gwynedd….
Concerned
WTF are you talking about? No fucking comments have been removed. You might be too fucking stupid to post a comment properly.
Ha, ha…I just saw this on a Zerohedge article http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-23/confederate-flag-sales-soar-despite-populist-removal-merchandise
“We leave it to The Burning Platform’s Jim Quinn to explain the hypocrisy of banning The Confederate Flag…”
Son of a bitch! The first time I am quoted and appear on ZH Admin gets the credit.
Sorry Stephanie
ZH just grabs whatever they like on TBP and assume it is mine. It happened to Stuck too.
A question for you native Southerners. Why isn’t the CSA flag flown, rather than the battle flag? Sometimes I wonder if Southerners even know there is a difference…
Billy,
Leave it to you to post a video from the movie 300, which is based on a fucking comic book. Xerxes was a zoroastrian which by definition means he was a humanitarian. Yes, he was a bit obsessed with the Greeks after his father, Darius I failed to subdue them, but the Greco-Persian wars were started by the Greeks, who were raiding Persian ruled cities in what is today western Turkey.
Maybe one day there will be created an epic film about the life of Cyrus the Great, but not as long as Jews control Hollywood. The Jews get Exodus and Schindler’s List. The Persians get 300…
Of course I would never knock hellenic civilization at it’s height, but it is also true that their societies were based on slavery and an absurd polytheistic religion while the Persians worshiped one benevolent God, allowed local self-rule to their conquered lands and slavery was abolished throughout the lands they controlled. The western world might be a better place if the Persians had won.
Admin- That’s ok I am delighted it was used on ZH . I find it hysterical that now 12,000+ know of your Southern origins and that you are a proud citizen of Alabama.
As a fellow resident and native of Alabama (Gadsden), it’s great to hear you live in this state. We will need more of your kind after everything goes to hell.
I haven’t logged into Facebook or talked to anyone locally to get their reaction yet, but I’m guessing this Confederate flag ban is going over like a lead balloon around here. Fuck Ebay, Fuck Amazon, Fuck Wal Mart. I will not do business with any of those cock suckers ever again.
I’ve got about 60-70 Obamacare signs that were popping up around this area like mushrooms until I took every single one of them down. I’m thinking a few of those might end up getting repurposed as Confederate battle flags.
“right now EVERY real American needs to stand by Old Glory”
To hell with that. Fuck you, and fuck your supposed “glory.” The USA was a bad idea from the very beginning. The South will rise again bitches. The rest of y’all I’m not so sure about.
TBP – The eHarmony of Doom websites.
Nathan Klein says:
“right now EVERY real American needs to stand by Old Glory”
To hell with that. Fuck you, and fuck your supposed “glory.” The USA was a bad idea from the very beginning. The South will rise again bitches. The rest of y’all I’m not so sure about.
______________________________
I’m totally about this. Fuck the United States and it’s failed Constitution. Bring back the Confederacy and the Articles of Confederation. I’m not so sure about Texas…I think they just want to be their own thing (having lived here for two years).
Stephanie, after reviewing your profile picture, combined with the number of insightful and reasoned comments you have posted over the years on this and other sites (singlehandedly fighting back hordes of morons in many instances), and having learned that you live in Alabama (!), I get the strong impression you and I are destined to have dinner together some time in the next 3-6 months.
I don’t know who the smartest person in Alabama is….but I’m sure it’s either you or me.
Email me..@ gmail.com
username nathan.klein and add a .17
Let’s chat. Did you ever open a new blog…? What’s the URL?
Nate
“A question for you native Southerners. Why isn’t the CSA flag flown, rather than the battle flag? Sometimes I wonder if Southerners even know there is a difference…”
The CSA was a political entity that is no more. But the rebellion still lives on in men and women’s hearts.
The battle flag is popular for the exact same reason that football has always been popular here, no more so than today.
We have been preparing for this battle for 150 years. We aim to win this time around. Looks like third time will be the charm.
(American Revolution, Lincoln’s War, ….?)
Nathan
That is a very kind offer. I haven’t known a man since my brother left us.
But you really must do something about that 1970s haircut. At this point you are not sponge-worthy.
SS -At this point you are not sponge-worthy.
OUCH!