Tim says (he’s asked this question at least 3 times previously in various threads on marijuana): “This is a serious question, and not intended to troll. Can someone please explain to me the difference between decriminalization and legalization?” Well, Tim, why not do some independent research. But here goes.
Decriminalization = Downgrading the possession and/or use of a certain quantity of marijuana deemed “for personal use” from a felony to a misdemeanor and subjecting the possessor to a FINE in lieu of formal arrest. The quantity of marijuana deemed “for personal use” is defined under individual state law. For example, six ounces or less. New York and Ohio are two states which have decriminalized personal possession/use of marijuana. Decriminalization has these important features:
1) The offense does NOT appear on the offender’s criminal record as it is not defined as a felony. This is the most important feature of decriminalization since the offender is not stigmatized as a felon for the rest of his/her life.
2) The offender is not placed under arrest, taken to jail, and subjected to a trial, which creates an undue burden on the offender and the state. Instead, the offender is issued a ticket which defines the offense and a fine, released at the place of detention, and pays the fine either by mail or appearance in a misdemeanor court of law. Example: a first offense for marijuana personal use/possession in Ohio is a $100 fine.
Legalization = Possession, including medical marijuana, of a certain quantity of marijuana deemed “for personal use” is legal under state law. No detention. No fine. Same applies to a certain small quantity of marijuana plants being grown by an individual. It’s legal. Sounds great, doesn’t it? Fits right in with the simple-minded crowd who shout, “Legalize it and tax it.” Not so fast.
1) Legalization in Colorado and Washington has created large and expensive state bureaucracies to enforce their complicated laws. Brand new state licensing board employees and state inspectors for the growers, transporters, and sellers are two examples of state drones who will never go away.
In 2014, the Colorado Department of Revenue reported that it collected nearly $53 million in taxes from marijuana sales. Not really. It was $44 million from sales taxes on medical AND personal use marijuana sales, ie. the buyers of marijuana (the Department did not break the two tax revenues down). The other $9 million was from licenses and fees charged to the sellers of marijuana in addition to the taxes they were collecting from buyers. When you factor in the COSTS to the state for enforcing its legalization law, the projected tax revenue of $60-75 million from sales of personal pot is a joke and a giant lie with a twist. This time it’s a state government that’s lying and covering up, not the federal government.
2) Much lower prices for illegal weed in the black market remains a major factor in both Colorado and Washington and greatly undermines the inflated projections of state sales tax revenues from legal pot. “Weed is still pricey at Washington’s pot shops — often in the $23-to-$25-per-gram range. That’s about twice the cost at medical dispensaries,” according to a January 2015 Fox News report. Here’s where ignorance of the metric system and laziness of many TBP visitors kicks in. $23 per gram equals a whopping $688 per ounce of weed. According to International Business Times, the black market price of an ounce of weed in Washington is $232. Mama mia. $232 black market versus the $688 legal market for recreational pot users. $232 black market versus the $344 legal market for medical pot users. And this is in one of the CHEAPEST BLACK MARKETS IN THE U.S. Who do you think is going to win this market contest? I’m laying 100-1 odds on the Mexicans. Any takers?
3) All state laws on legal pot, passed or proposed, specifically exclude those under the age of 21. Enough said. You know what that means. More shit piled on the young and clueless who make mistakes. Decriminalization makes no age distinction. Huge, huge bonus.
I could continue with this heartless beat down of my critics, but, as Stucky likes to say, I’m filled with the spirit of goodwill to all. That and there’s a glass of spirits waiting to celebrate the New Year. Many blessings to all of you for 2016.
Shockingly, no mention of the drop in violent crime in Colorado. The state decides it’s income statement on this issue, therefore, dropping random state $ figures has no merit. If they are losing money, they are just incompetent.
There are two issues at play: the individual Pot user and the State
1. Users should not be arrested, go to jail, pay a fine (which has a record of the infraction which will be used against you by other industries), or have their future lives ruined with a police record – Period.
I am for legalization based on above.
2. The State – as a taxpayer, I am somewhat concerned of adding a bigger bureaucracy which has it associated increased costs and inefficiencies, and corruption.
But, if the State authorized product costs more, the users would either quit or buy from an illegal source. So What – the same scenario applied to alcohol and there aren’t too many moonshiners selling their product across the country.
Mike,
I’ve heard others claim that crime rate drop -partial year, full year not in yet- is the result in new restrictive gun laws.
And still others claim it is the booming popularity of concealed carry.
Statistical correlation does not imply causation, particularly so when it is being used to support a political position.
Marijuana can probably be ruled out as a causative factor or you would also be seeing similar decreases only in places that have legalized the stuff, but that isn’t the case. You do seem to see it everywhere shall issue CC has been enacted though.
SSS…never forget…Vices shouldn’t be crimes .
Tried to vote it down here in WA… my stoner friends were too gleeful at the prospect to realize the state making more rules is NEVER a good thing.
If you really want to compare prices on Cannabis, check out http://www.weedmaps.com
I don’t buy the idea that so-called “black market” weed is that much cheaper than through a dispensary. Sorry SSS but your arguments rely on weak, obscure data for support.
Illegal or legal, dopes IQ’s are inversely proportional to usage rates.
SSS- Thanks for the highlights, we have battled back and forth on the issue for years now. One point I am not clear on is, how does decriminalization deal with manufacture or growing? Possession is one thing, but where does the Marijuana one possesses come from, a felonious grower? Mexican Cartels?
“One point I am not clear on is, how does decriminalization deal with manufacture or growing? Possession is one thing, but where does the Marijuana one possesses come from, a felonious grower? Mexican Cartels?”
—-Ottomatik @ SSS
Doesn’t matter, Otto. Decriminalization is focuser on the user/possessor and how much weed is involved. I would add that pot “growers” who are found with one or two marijuana plants, or whatever, on their property such as their house or garden, could also be written into a state decriminalization law.
I am trying to convince people here to get rid of the nickel-dime pot FELONIES in many state laws which do not rise to the level of a true felony. This bullshit has damaged hundreds of thousands of lives, if not more, and needs to stop. And it’s very costly.
The federal government is stuck. It cannot at any time in the foreseeable future legalize marijuana. It’s hamstrung by Congress and international treaties. But the states can minimalize the damage done to the everyday pot smoker. THAT can be done. Nation wide.
Now that I better understand SSS’s position, it makes a LOT of sense.
At a minimum, it would be great start.
I wonder if SSS just fell off his rocking chair?
“Now that I better understand SSS’s position, it makes a LOT of sense. At a minimum, it would be great start.”
—-Stucky re my comment @ 7:27 pm above
Thanks, Stucky. That’s the first positive comment in 5+ years I’ve had from you on my views of illegal drugs. I’m either making progress or did indeed fall off my rocking chair.
R says:
“Tried to vote it down here in WA… ”
Me too!
Although I can’t indulge, I love the stuff but decriminalization is better than legalization.
Westcoaster said:
“I don’t buy the idea that so-called “black market” weed is that much cheaper than through a dispensary.”
I’m not sure of the source SSS used for his WA weed prices but you can get an ounce of very high grade, legal weed in WA for $256/ounce. The same legal weed purchased in one gram increments works out to $420/ounce.
The black market has essentially collapsed in WA because anyone with a medical MJ card can grow their own. If you have a pulse and body temp in the 90’s you can get a medical MJ card. Many are growing far more than they can use and they try to sell it but usually end up giving it away. Someone commented that the same thing has happened in CO.
SSS said:
“I am trying to convince people here to get rid of the nickel-dime pot FELONIES in many state laws which do not rise to the level of a true felony. This bullshit has damaged hundreds of thousands of lives, if not more, and needs to stop.”
Damn straight! Depending on jusrisdiction you life can essentially be over if busted with marijuana. In many states you get arrested, have your car taken away, lose your job, go to prison, chances are you’ll lose your home, wife and kids go on welfare, tax payers pay to imprison you and if civil asset forfieture comes into play you can lose cash, bank accounts, property etc. Real fair!
_____________________________________________–
(Estimated Number Of People In The US Sentenced To State and Federal Prison For Marijuana Offenses)
Total Federal Prisoners 2004 = 170,535
Total State Prisoners 2004 = 1,244,311
Percent of federal prisoners held for drug law violations = 55%
Percent of state prisoners held for drug law violations = 21%
Marijuana/hashish, Percent of federal drug offenders, 2004 = 12.4%
Marijuana/hashish, Percent of state drug offenders, 2004 = 12.7%
(Total prisoners x percent drug law) x percent marijuana = “marijuana prisoners”
Federal marijuana prisoners in 2004 = 11,630
State marijuana prisoners in 2004 = 33,186
Total federal and state marijuana prisoners in 2004 = 44,816
Note: These data only address people in prisons and thus exclude the 700,000+ offenders who may be in local jails because of a marijuana conviction.
Taken from:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Marijuana
SSS
Sometimes I get the feeling … “why bother posting the same shit over and over when it changes nothing?”. Perhaps you and others feel the same way from time to time.
But, let this be a lesson. Your relentlessness in preaching the same gospel over and over, which culminated in your brilliantly logical presentation above, has finally (I’m a little slow) won me over.
Some say I’m wishy-washy. I’d like to think I’m not close-minded, and that I can still take in new data, and make mid-course adjustments.
Congrats, you’ve made much progress.