FORWARD: I tend to be long-winded, so this article has been greatly shortened in the hopes that someone will actually read the damned thing. I’m not publishing this under my own name, so don’t expect academic levels of references and figures. You disagree with something, start a war in the comments.
The 1800s set the tone for mankind’s future, not just politically, but economically and scientifically as well. It was at this point when we began to understand that our actions may have a lasting effect on the global carrying capacity for humanity. The concerns have always wavered back and forth, but at the end of the day the predictions all mean the same thing:
“Doom” is a terrible scientific conclusion, as it is rooted deeply in emotion; however, doom is an excellent political conclusion as fear-mongering has long been a preferred tool for those with special interests, and unfortunately the budding science of climatology has been used time and again to push an agenda.
Today, climate change is as divisive a topic as can be found, pitting allies, neighbors, and even family against each other. This all or nothing approach to a very serious and complex problem is yet another challenge America faces in its attempts to stand united.
A Brief Background of Climate Change
The Greenhouse Gas Effect Theory is currently the science underpinning this latest issue. Dating back to 1896, the Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius calculated that different gases (most noticeably: Water vapor, carbon dioxide, and methane) had an effect whereby they would trap the amount of infrared energy in a system, increasing the temperature.
The original observations were considered to be non-important from a Doomsday perspective, as Arrhenius concluded that the effect would take many thousands of years to actually be a factor. As time moved forward, scientists continued to build upon and tweak Arrhenius’ work, isolating carbon dioxide as a contributor, and also discovering worrying trends in past-climate trends (paleoclimatology) where previously stable Ice Ages were discovered to have actually contained many smaller episodes, and in fact were not stable at all, regularly flipping from one state to another.
Alarm began to build in scientific circles, and by the 1960s the rising use of aerosols had caused a rise in smog around the industrialized world, as well as the relatively new phenomenon, Acid Rain. These two very visual concerns led to the beginning of the “Doomsday” crowd, with in 1970 scientists warned of an imminent Ice Age if mankind did not soon change their ways. Legislature passed during this time helped to greatly reduce the Acid Rain caused by industry and other irresponsible use of chemicals.
As one problem was conquered, another took its place in the form of a growing hole in the ozone layer located in the Southern Hemisphere. Fast global action proved strong enough to overcome this challenge, as the international outlaw of CFCs and reduction in HCFC use greatly increased the strength of the Earth’s ozone layer.
As the ozone layer slowly began its healing journey, the politician scientists pivoted to the next target on their hit list: The Greenhouse Effect.
Previous climate issues were fairly cut and dry: sulfur dioxide causes acid rain and HFCs destroy the ozone. But, this time is different, this time the smoking gun was not as easy to identify. The Greenhouse Effect is primarily driven by carbon dioxide, with methane being a close second. The problem seems simple, right? Just decrease global CO2 and methane production! Unfortunately that would prove more difficult than previous concerns. The sources for carbon dioxide and methane are innumerable, and whereas prior problems could be readily substituted, reduction in carbon dioxide or methane production would destroy entire industries in some countries and would cause great harm to the economy of most others.
In 1992 the world met in Kyoto, Japan, and signed the Kyoto Protocol, which put some loose restrictions on the nations that signed the treaty. To be honest, this rather half-assed approach did little to appease anyone, as only the signees would be holding to their word, while rising powerhouses such as China and India would continue chugging right along, like the little coal-fired-engine-that-could. Half-assed measures get half-assed results, and the El nino of 1998 was all the excuse that was needed. The Doom is back, this time assuring us that our planet would become too hot to support our current way of life, and if we did not make changes soon then we would all be featured in a real life Water World – a fate worse than death according to Costner’s acting career.
Climate change has only gotten more divisive since then, with hockey-stick graphs on one side, and receding glaciers on the other. Is the climate heating? Is it cooling? One ice sheet thickens (Antarctica) while the other grows thinner (Arctic). Some heat is missing, while other locations are too hot.
The simple truth is that Climate Change is not the worldwide threat its been sold to be and is nothing more than a giant, monetized distraction.
The Politics of Climate Change
Al Gore has long been at the forefront for combating “carbon dioxide.” Citing his college professor as his inspiration, Al Gore has become borderline obsessed with greenhouse gases, and how to combat them. His pressure on the US government and media has created a push for green energy kicking off a “gold rush” for the green energy sector. Suddenly money is flooding in, and as we all know, where government money flows, corruption follows. What was initially a dripping spigot of free money turned into several industries over night, with things like solar power and cellulosic ethanol promising to completely destroy the “evil” fossil fuels sector.
Well, the stage was set, and the show must go on. We have fossil fuels and capitalism playing the part of the bad guy, Al Gore and his activists the valiant hero, and “green” technology acting as the magical weapon that will slay the evil pollution beast and save us all. Dissenters are mocked and careers ruined. If you doubt the science on climate change you are met with outright scorn and disbelief, so thorough has the marketing been for this particular “doom” cult.
The rest of the modern world has thrown their lot in with Gore and his cronies as there’s never been a government that didn’t want more control over its people, and once again they have that age old excuse “its for your own good.” As the fever pitch of outraged do-gooders has risen, so has the amount of money flowing from the government (the public) into poorly thought out schemes and technologies. People like to feel important, and the relentless campaigns by governments, activists, and bored people worldwide have ushered in a new era of NIMBY policies that ostensibly are for the good of the environment, but really just defer the cost onto a different location (*cough* Chinese made batteries *cough*)
At this point it is borderline impossible to determine whether or not the Earth’s climate is warming due to just how highly politicized this topic has become. Papers that disagree with the media’s version of climate science are prevented from publication, or even never funded to begin with. The research that has been published in support of climate science is continuously being revised, and the models are constantly being updated as they fail time and again to demonstrate any ability to predict the future.
The Real Problem
While the two ends of the climate change spectrum sling mud at each other, very real damage is occurring to our planet’s carrying capacity virtually unnoticed. Oceans, forests, and fresh water tables all have been devastated, and every last one of these have been fully preventable.
The Ocean, once a bountiful supply of food for many populations, now have been depleted to the point where much of the Earth may as well be a desert when it comes to food availability. The fish are simply not there anymore, destroyed by wanton harvest of commercial operations and gross overestimation of supplies by industry experts.
Westernized countries have largely understood the value of their forests and have begun extensive re-planting programs, while the Third World and emerging markets have been plowing under their forests for palm oil production and substandard farmland. A short-sighted approach to a far-reaching problem.
Of course there is no money in these problems, no way for Western governments and their cronies to loot and pillage their way to a “solution”…so they go ignored in favor of hefty subsidies to buddies in the various “green” industries and their “good enough for government” results.
The greatest threat to our “life as we know it” isn’t gas from cow shit, but instead wind from bullshit – and the Western world keeps eating it up as their leaders pile it higher and deeper, drowning us in piles of complete nonsense in an attempt to shame everyone into giving more of their future over to government control.
I no longer have any idea what the fuck hardscrabble is asking or, what Tucci is explaining. Electricity, not gravity, is keeping my fat ass glued to this chair. Earth might be round, or a globe, or an oblate sphere, who the fuck knows. A black rubber bucket with frozen water that looks like the Big Bang, and steaming hot piles of compost.
This schtuff is above my pay grade. Gonna get started on my next Pic Essay. Really. Simple shit … guaranteed.
Tucci-
Thanks for the stab at it. Regardless of the kind of gas (we’re on granite ledge, no marcellus shales around here) I still don’t understand what force would propel some gas bubbles towards the Earth while the others rise to the surface. Hopefully Anonymous will fill me in on the fluid dynamics part of the problem that he understands intuitively, but the reality of the bubbles radiating outward in every direction doesn’t seem to jive with the gravity/ lighter gas in denser water explanation that’s been used to explain the other questions above. If all of these things are such simple truths I have to admit it seems near impossible to get anyone to articulate them at a level that someone with a fairly sharp mind can grasp.
I remain hopeful.
“One of those photos is fake. Probably both.”
Or taken through a different lens.
Ever see the same photo with both a standard and fish eye view projected from it?
I don’t assume fakery on things that would be so obvious as to catch the notice of every lay and professional scientist and astronomer in the world if it were if it hasn’t.
Stucky, I admire your passion to remain incurious.
Stucky,
“This schtuff is above my pay grade. ”
Don’t feel bad, it’s above his too.
So,
I was looking at the two sat image links provided by HSF.
I did see the difference between the two images of North America,
and then the earthday_day_ site displayed this message:
“earthobservatory.nasa.gov/resources/blogs/earthday_day_lrg.jpg”
cannot be displayed because it contains errors.
I would suggest that our listeners have detected a discrepancy in the matrix, and are remove any images that do not conform to the current agenda.
you still can’t get to the images, its now 11:46 AM EST.
“As I have asked, explain them to me as if I were a retarded man.”
OK, light things float, heavy things sink.
Water vapor is lighter than water so it floats, liquid water is heavier than air so it sinks.
If that doesn’t explain it then nothing will.
“Or taken through a different lens.
Ever see the same photo with both a standard and fish eye view projected from it?
I don’t assume fakery on things that would be so obvious as to catch the notice of every lay and professional scientist and astronomer in the world if it were if it hasn’t.”
So a fish eye lens alters the size of the continent but not the outline of the planet itself?
And as to the last passage, allow me-
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” –
Upton Sinclair.
Around here we have numerous sightings of mountain lions. No big deal, they live on the continent and they have four legs, it was bound to happen. However, speak of them to the Department of Fish and Game and they will tell you that officially, no prints, no hair samples with DNA tests, no photos or videos of them will ever serve as proof of their existence because Department policy states that they do not exist in the State. Oh, and if you see one you may not shoot it, even if they aren’t here.
This is a lot like that.
What is official explanation and what is a reasonable to question are two very different things. I’m only interested in what is, not theory, not policy, not official and not fake- for whatever reason.
Hardscrabble Farmer writes about how it seems to him that: “the reality of the bubbles radiating outward in every direction doesn’t seem to [jibe] with the gravity.”
What d’you know about Brownian motion? Remember when I mentioned how that water vapor molecule in the atmosphere is influenced by collisions with other atoms and molecules in that same volume of gas? Well, Brownian motion is observed in other fluids than air – water emphatically so, and as I keep trying to tell you, gravity really is NOT that strong a force compared to all the other forces working on a molecule or cluster of molecules.
Anonymous explains-
“OK, light things float, heavy things sink.
Water vapor is lighter than water so it floats, liquid water is heavier than air so it sinks.
If that doesn’t explain it then nothing will.”
Perfect explanation. Gravity then, is able to discern between heavy things and light things and the force of gravity as explained by Newton only applies to heavy things. Got it. Light things are not affected by gravity because, science. Totally understood.
Tucci, pedisis accounts for random movement based on interaction of atoms or molecules within a gas or liquid. What I observed was not random, it was precise radiating phenomenon. straight lines in every direction away from the center, not some corkscrewing one direction and then turning around or all over, but rather a uniform origin and heading. Think red shift.
Anonymous says:
Stucky,
“This schtuff is above my pay grade. ”
Don’t feel bad, it’s above his too.”
And there it is- another cogent and well reasoned response demonstrating the rock solid foundation of all good science.
And FWIW, no one pays me so I can ask any question I like without fear of economic or social reprisal.
Anti-Fragile, baby.
The piece you are missing, HSF, is the bonds between water molecules in its solid and liquid states. H2O has a unique polarized structure where the 2 H ions form the base of a pyramid–with a bond angle of 107.5 degrees. This created a negative end and a positive end to each and every water molecule. This polar structure creates a weak bond (due to the Electrostatic Force) between molecules. When temperature (read molecular energy) is low (under 0C), this bond causes all molecules to be tightly bound together in a crystalline state (ice), when temperature is moderate (0-100 C) the molecules can slip past one another, but the attractive force is enough for them to stay together rather than float away (anon above is correct with wood floating analogy). Of course, eventually these bonds also break one-by-one at room temperatures due to the nature of statistics and probability (evaporation). Once boiling temperatures are reached, the molecules become energetic enough to break the bonds between molecules and float away.
As for the way gravity acts between matter on Earth and on the Moon…it is just a sum of vectors, as Force must be defined by both direction and magnitude. Hence, liquid water in oceans, replenished by a well-understood and mathematically defined and predictive process of the water cycle, and rising tides due to Moon’s gravity.
Now, one caveat I will put forth: I am explaining all of this in Newtonian terms. The Quantum Mechanical plays into the Newtonian in completely unpredictable and I believe quite misunderstood ways. Newtonian Gravity works great for motion on earth and most motion in the Solar System, but completely falls apart as the lens widens to the Cosmic. General Relativity has been the go-to explanation for almost a century, but still leaves huge holes. My point is, I think there is a rational component to our existence (I make my living using the rational to make real things, aka engineering) but I also believe there is very much a irrational component as well.
To sum up: (1) Newtonian gravity works very well to describe virtually all motion on this planet, including that of water molecules. (2) You are very much correct to question everything, including this.
My thoughts, and could be wrong
First
Please do not confuse CO2 with pollution, since CO2 is life sustaining. Politicos especially love to now brand CO2 as ‘pollution.” Very effective to the vulnerable .
To those saying it is pollution in large quantities, like an overdose of whiskey, I think it true to say that CO2, at this time comprises in the atmosphere just one part out of total 2500 parts . Rather small in volume or density. And, not scientific, but seems incredible that such a small density would have such major effect, except for the agenda goaled.
Next, the earth for eons has suffered through naturally recurring eons of life destroying cold and ice, interspersed with ages of natural life supporting warmth.
The Medieval Warm period, though possibly regional, existed, as did the following destructive Little Ice Age, ending around 1850.
At one time, the prairie region of Canada, not that historically long ago, was blanketed with an ice sheet of thickness 1000ès of feet. That ice did not just flop off into space somewhere.
Finally, the Master Class has already stolen much of our responsible liberty and freedom . Before resorting to the messiness of the gun, it uses AGW as one major means to steal what remains of our liberty. By frightening the masses with AGW alarmism, sensationalism, catastrophism.
By thereby removing from us our freedom of action, including the freedom to spend our own money, through what they call carbon taxation. And no, carbon is not carbon dioxide, same as I am not my brother, though of the same family. But they call it carbon, which you would not want to spot on your white dress or suit.
Bunch of liars and deceivers, not that uncommon today.
To me, the best evidence yet of the deception here in Canada is that in all the decades now, except for what I search out myself, not once have I heard or discovered from the main press-media, not one individual or group allowed the opportunity to dissent.
That is the extent of the debate, meaning none. from the controllers. Only the alarmists have full opportunity to alarm.
By the way, different topic, but, even though the ozone holes were politically used much later, they were actually discovered in the year 1956, before the advent of that particular politically polluted thought process.
Diving headlong through all five of the Kübler-Ross stages of loss and grief, Hardscrabble Farmer expresses acceptance: “Gravity then, is able to discern between heavy things and light things and the force of gravity as explained by Newton only applies to heavy things. Got it. Light things are not affected by gravity because, science. Totally understood.”
And yet again, let it be repeated that gravity is only ONE of the fundamental forces acting upon matter, and it’s the very weakest of the four.
Little stuff – whether it’s a molecule of water, of hydrogen gas, of iron oxide, of cholesterol – will tend to behave “strictly” according to gravity’s dictates only to the extent that the other forces aren’t exerting greater influence – which is almost always the case.
How is it that you consider gravity so strong when everything observed about it keeps demonstrating that as the fundamental forces go, it’s pretty much a comparative limp-dick except on the very largest scales?
Once again, I understand virtually everything that has been discussed here, I took both chemistry and physics at a private school i the 70’s and aced them, so I am not exactly retarded as claimed. I just find that the deeper I think about the things I observe, the more questions I have and the less plausible the formerly solid theories sound. Gravity works on some things, but not other things. It’s the weakest of the four forces except it is so powerful all of the solar system is obliged to conform, that kind of thing.
Gotta run, dump closes at 1.
Still on phone, but I’ll take another stab at it.
As a solid, water forms a crytalline matrix (ice). When we add energy (heat) we disrupt these bonds and the water melts into its liquid form. These water molecules are interacting with each other in the form of hydrogen bonds, which result in the hydrogens and oxygens of adjacent water molecules “sticking” to each other.
Adding more energy, we drive the liquid into its gas phase – water vapor. These vapor molecules behave as a true gas, and do not readily hydrogen bond with each other. Gas molecules have a higher energy level than liquid, which is expressed in the form of kinetic energy.
So these water vapor molecules are not being flung outwards radially, but instead are zipping around at random, careening off each other like pinballs.
As to your original question, the vapor is NOT ignoring gravity, it just has enough of its own kinetic energy that it OVERCOMES the pull of gravity so that it can zip around in our atmosphere. When it gets too high in the atmosphere it loses temperature, which brings it back to a liquid state as a droplet, falling back to Earth.
HSF
Not sure why you are pursuing this thread. And you are being sarcastic for no particular reason. I’m going to give it my best shot. There are two types of forces at work in world.
They can be divided generally into strong and weak. Gravity believe it or not is a weak nuclear force. But everything is affected by gravity.
They are from strongest to weakest.
1. The Strong Force
This force is responsible for binding of nuclei. It is the dominant one in reactions and decays of most of the fundamental particles. This force is so strong that it binds and stabilize the protons of similar charges within a nucleus. However, it is very short range. No such force will be felt beyond the order of 1 fm (femtometer or 10-15 m).
2. The Electromagnetic Force
This is the force which exists between all particles which have an electric charge. For example, electrons (negative charge) bind with nucleus of an atom, due to the presence of protons (positive charge). The force is long range, in principle extending over infinite distance. However, the strength can quickly diminishes due to shielding effect. Many everyday experiences such as friction and air resistance are due to this force. This is also the resistant force that we feel, for example, when pressing our palm against a wall. This is originated from the fact that no two atoms can occupy the same space. However, its strength is about 100 times weaker within the range of 1 fm, where the strong force dominates. But because there is no shielding within the nucleus, the force can be cumulative and can compete with the strong force. This competition determines the stability structure of nuclei.
3. The Weak Force This force is responsible for nuclear beta decay and other similar decay processes involving fundamental particles. The range of this force is smaller than 1 fm and is 10-7 weaker than the strong force. Nevertheless, it is important in understanding the behavior of fundamental particles.
4. The Gravitational Force
This is the force that holds us onto the Earth. It could be important in our daily life, but on the scale of atomic world it is of negligible or no importance at all. Gravitational force is cumulative and extended to infinity. It exists whenever there is matter. Your body is experiencing a gravitaional pull with, say, your computer (or anything close to you or as far away as stars and galaxies) but the effect is so small you will never sense it. However, you can sense the gravitaional pull with the Earth (that is, your weight) due to the cumulative effect of billions of billions of the atoms made up your body with those atoms of the Earth. This means that the larger the body (contain more matter), the stronger the force. But on the scale of individual particles, the force is extremely small, only in the order of 10-38 times that of the strong force.
Woe is me.
Just spent about an hour of my useless time putting together my thoughts on this,. ( I was al;ways retarded and slow,) And, when I post, get a message.
Looks like you already said that.
Not the first time. What does it mean.
Piss on it. So sorry that no one benefits from my ignorance.
HSF,
Not sure about all this physics stuff but one thing is for certain, gravity seems to have dropped three quarts of maple syrup on my door step today. We will get the check to ya and can’t wait to try it.Thx.
Joey
It has happened to me. You likely just double clicked when you hit submit. Might be too strong a force working on your mouse 🙂
Hardscrabble,
Can you explain to me why “Cream rises to the top”?
If you can, you’ll answer all your own questions.
Rob,
You seem to be of a mind that will find this fascinating:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3483728/Is-FIFTH-fundamental-force-Large-Hadron-Collider-results-hint-bizarre-new-particle-doesn-t-fit-laws-physics.html
The possibilities it suggests are phenomenal if it turns out the way it looks like it may.
“How is it that you consider gravity so strong when everything observed about it keeps demonstrating that as the fundamental forces go, it’s pretty much a comparative limp-dick except on the very largest scales?”
For that to make sense it has to be ignored that gravity is what holds the universe together (and, of course, that would be using a Newtonian model and finite universe of limited scale, anything else making it relative to everything else as well as itself in both nature and strength and not really discussable in these simple terms).
IMO, I speak for no one else.
HSF, without gravity or if warm or shaken, the four main gases of the earths atmosphere would be random (as in a container). But if the four gasses are cool and calm in a gravity field, the gas molecules would obey the laws of buoyancy and behave like four balls of different weights (H2=2, H2O=18, N2=28, O2=32) in water and form four layers: hydrogen on top, then water VAPOR below the hydrogen, then nitrogen 3rd from the top and oxygen on the bottom. In reality, hydrogen and helium gases do float to the top of the earths atmosphere (where the solar wind blows them into space); water VAPOR would be above the N2 and O2 layers. A big reason that all our water is not blown away into space is that water molecules are electro-statically “bipolar” (the hydrogen nucleus are positive and oxygen atom is negative which causes water vapor molecules to cluster and form liquid water droplets which are heavy and stay lower in our atmosphere than N2 and O2 ). If interested. the reason for the different weights expressed in Atomic Weights: Hydrogen is element number 1 with a nucleus of one proton (atomic Weight 1) and it exist mainly as an atmospheric molecule of two covalent bonded hydrogen atoms or a H2 (atomic weight 1 + 1 = 2). Water is a covalent bonded compound of one oxygen and two hydrogen atoms H2O (atomic weight 1 + 1 + 16 = 18). Nitrogen is element 7 ( 7 protons and 7 neutrons for atomic weight 14) and exist in the air as two bonded atoms (or 14 + 14 = 28). Oxygen is atomic number 8 (8 protons and 8 neutrons with atomic weight 16) and exists in the atmosphere mostly as two covalent bonded oxygen atoms O2 (or 16 + 16 = 32).
Okay Anon at 1:00pm
One more time. Gravity is weak force compared to force that binds nuclei. Don’t believe me then pick up the computer you are typing on and drop it on floor. Let me know how experiment turns out.
How about a break. I’m listening to this. Music helps smooth out my days.
A beautiful song is a strong force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlumjcOg9k&list=RDDvVznAb9-Ss&index=6
My bad just finished that. This is what I am listening to right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlumjcOg9k&list=RDDvVznAb9-Ss&index=6
Rob,
I’m not understanding your position.
It seems to be one of scale, there is no reason to believe that the forces holding the nuclei of an atom are not simply gravitational forces on a smaller system scale, they serve the same purpose as the gravitational forces on a much larger scale do.
Maybe we are not talking the same thing, words and such often complicate such discussions with their relative meanings in the context of the discussion they are used in.
Mathematics are much more precise which is why that is what science uses of define the universe as we know it, but that is still relative within the system to which they are being applied.
try again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4lmRP52y4A
Hardscrabble @ 12:15 pm says: “Once again, I understand virtually everything that has been discussed here, I took both chemistry and physics at a private school i the 70’s and aced them, so I am not exactly retarded as claimed. I just find that the deeper I think about the things I observe, the more questions I have and the less plausible the formerly solid theories sound. Gravity works on some things, but not other things. It’s the weakest of the four forces except it is so powerful all of the solar system is obliged to conform, that kind of thing”
________________________
I did NOT excel in chemistry or physics in the least, so my thoughts below will be much less erudite and scientific regarding Hardscrabble’s natural observations and queries presented on this thread as well as the ongoing commentary here by everyone else (music videos notwithstanding!). 🙂
However, regarding church dogma, scientific observation, theory, etc – I have found the following to be fascinating:
If one online queries topics such spacetime, general relativity, Newton’s law of gravitation, etc – you will eventually get to “the fabric of space”. Simplified, it is like four people holding a large sheet, one person on each corner then drawing it tight. Then, placing a basketball in the middle. The mass of the basketball draws down the sheet, so if you throw a golf ball on the sheet, it will drift downward to the basketball and this what is behind the concept of “gravity”.
Of course the sheet analogy is flawed because it does not allow for the vacuum of outer space. But it does offer a mental visualization of the concept. There are actually much better visuals onYouTube (“under the fabric of space”) and the best one I ever saw was on wimp.com where a guy uses different balls on a funnel type platform and demonstrates how all of the balls fall into rotation with each other.
Anyway, all of this was discovered in the last century and yet some theologians claim it all supports the infallibility of the Bible because Isaiah 40:22 says: “He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.”
Another interesting discovery by scientists in the last century is has to do with the “weight” of atmospheric systems and how the effects of wind and water govern weather patterns. Also, the scientific connections between evaporation, clouds, and how lightning and thunder chemically / mechanically trigger rainfall.
Again enter some theologians – who claim this all validates Job 28:24-26 that says: “For He looks to the ends of the earth, and sees under the whole heavens, to establish a weight for the wind, and apportion the waters by measure. When He made a law for the rain, and a path for the thunderbolt”
I know from a scientific standpoint, I may sound sophomoric. Even seventhgraderic? But perhaps it’s merely a matter of multiple “unseen” forces, working in unison, that apply separately to various “strata”. (i.e – vacuum of outer space vs. atmospheric elements here on earth).
Furthermore, what if each “strata” is its own little “universe” with their own various constructs working in their own symbiotic ways? Friction, surface tension, moisture, temperature, etc. Like HSF’s water bucket.
I may be stating the obvious. But it has been a fun mental exercise for me this morning, nevertheless. In my experience, after initial observation, sometimes merely asking the right (simple) questions can solve half of the problem.
Okay Anon
If gravity was a stronger force than the bond holding nuclei together than the computer would continue thru the floor. If you think about it matter could not exist either. The big bang would never have happened. I know there is a better explanation than this out there. However problem everyone has is that we look at world as a solid when it in fact is mostly a void. But one would have to think of world at atomic level. Most don’t as the human brain was designed to observe what can be seen not ponder the mysteries of the universe. I’m not a physicist, my son who has a Masters in Electrical Engineering and could likely do a better job. This discussion has veered to the “God of the Gaps” where everything needs to be explained. I was just trying to offer simple explanation about strength of gravity. I was being a bit smarmy so I apologize. Not trying to be a dick.
16 Democrat AGs Begin Inquisition Against ‘Climate Change Disbelievers’
Hans von Spakovsky
Beginning in 1478, the Spanish Inquisition systematically silenced any citizen who held views that did not align with the king’s. Using the powerful arm of the government, the grand inquisitor, Tomas de Torquemada, and his henchmen sought out all those who held religious, scientific, or moral views that conflicted with the monarch’s, punishing the “heretics” with jail sentences, property confiscation, fines, and in severe cases, torture, and execution.
One of the lasting results of the Spanish Inquisition was a stifling of speech, thought, and scientific debate throughout Spain. By treating one set of scientific views as absolute, infallible, and above critique, Spain silenced many brilliant individuals and stopped the development of new ideas and technological innovations. Spain became a scientific backwater.
As an old adage says, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. So we now have a new inquisition underway in America in the 21st century—something that would have seemed unimaginable not too long ago.
Treating climate change as an absolute, unassailable fact, instead of what it is— an unproven, controversial scientific theory, a group of state attorneys general have announced that they will be targeting any companies that challenge the catastrophic climate change religion.
Speaking at a press conference on March 29, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said “The bottom line is simple: Climate change is real.” He went on to say that if companies are committing fraud by “lying” about the dangers of climate change, they will “pursue them to the fullest extent of the law.”
The coalition of 17 inquisitors are calling themselves “AGs United for Clean Power.” The coalition consists of 15 state attorneys general (California, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, Vermont, and Washington State), as well as the attorneys general of the District of Columbia and the Virgin Islands. Sixteen of the seventeen members are Democrats, while the attorney general for the Virgin Islands, Claude Walker, is an independent.
The inquisitors are threatening legal action and huge fines against anyone who declines to believe in an unproven scientific theory.
The inquisitors are threatening legal action and huge fines against anyone who declines to believe in an unproven scientific theory.
Schneiderman and Kamala Harris, representing New York and California respectively, have already launched investigations into ExxonMobil for allegedly funding research that questioned climate change. Exxon emphatically denounced the accusations as false, pointing out that the investigation that “uncovered” this research was funded by advocacy foundations that publicly support climate change activism.
Standing next to Schneiderman throughout the press conference was the grand inquisitor himself, former Vice President Al Gore, who has stepped into the role of Tomas de Torquemada.
Gore, who narrated a climate change propaganda film in 2006 entitled “An Inconvenient Truth,” praised the coalition, stating that “what these attorneys general are doing is exceptionally important.” Neither Gore nor the “AGs United for Clean Power” has any concern over the First Amendment or the stifling of scientific debate.
When pressed on the effect that such investigations and prosecutions will have on free speech, General Schneiderman claimed climate change dissenters are committing “fraud” and are not protected by the First Amendment.
This comes on top of U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch admitting that the Justice Department is discussing the possibility of pursing civil actions against climate change deniers, and that she has already “referred it to the FBI to consider whether or not it meets the criteria for which” federal law enforcement could take action.
As we have said before, “Level-headed, objective prosecutors should not be interested in investigating or prosecuting anyone over a scientific theory that is the subject of great debate.” And yet, that is exactly what the AGs United for “Political” Power are going to do.
Fortunately, there are other state attorneys general who understand the importance of the rule of law as opposed to what they say is an “ambition to use the law to silence voices with which we disagree.” Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt and Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange said they would not be joining this coalition:
“Reasonable minds can disagree about the science behind global warming, and disagree they do. This scientific and political debate is healthy and should be encouraged. It should not be silenced with threats of criminal prosecution by those who believe that their position is the only correct one and that all dissenting voices must therefore be intimidated and coerced into silence. It is inappropriate for State Attorneys General to use the power of their office to attempt to silence core political speech on one of the major policy debates of our time.”
Although the Spanish Inquisition ended almost 200 years ago, the American Climate Change Inquisition appears to just be getting started. By threatening legal action and huge fines against anyone who declines to believe their climate theories, the attorneys general in this coalition are trying to end the debate over climate change, declaring any dissent to be blasphemy regardless of what many scientists believe.
This strikes a serious blow against the free flow of ideas and the vigorous debate over scientific issues that is a hallmark of an advanced, technological society like ours.
Rob,
Gravity is the force that makes the floor denser than the computer dropped on it. Remove gravity and you simply have an amorphous mass of atoms and molecules randomly bouncing around in free space.
Atoms and Molecules themselves do not simply bind together in a dense mass, it is gravity that binds them.
If we are to believe that Hydrogen is the “building block of the universe” then gravity is what has produced all that exists within it (both matter and empty space as a result of gravitational attraction producing the solid part of it) since gravity is what fuses hydrogen into more complex elements and their resulting molecules in the first place (which is why helium, for instance, is produced within the sun but not within a container of hydrogen).
And that is, of course, assuming there are not other superior forces at work and what we are calling forces gravitational, nuclear and otherwise- are simply our observations of them at work.
HSF, I’m not a scientist of any sort, but I have a hypothesis about your bubble trails in the pail of water. Some bubbles are created in the body of the water but most of them are created where the water touches another surface like the side of the bucket and unless they get too big they remain adhered to the surface. Why? I have no idea, but this is what I observed when I filled my new fish tank over the weekend (I’m very curious about aquaponics but decided to start small – a 20 gallon tank with three gold fish). In a bucket the surface of the water freezes first and then it starts to freeze from the outside in creating an upside down bowl shape as it freezes. This is also from personal observation. Now comes the hypothesis – as the crystal forms part of the bubble is trapped but another part is pushed by the water as it freezes. The part of the bubble still in liquid adheres to the solid surface of the ice in the same way as it initially adhered to the side of the bucket, which would explain why the trails don’t all run towards the surface. In my hypothesis this is why you see the trails that appear to be radiating out from the center – they were formed from the outside in, not the inside out.
Where in the fuck did you study particle physics. Let me guess the University of Phoenix. You are completely wrong. If you graduated from High School please send diploma back for shredding. You don’t need it.
Man I’m trying to be nice but that is the most retarded fucking I have read yet today. Let’s try on get back on topic. We should be taking about climate change.
@HSF
The difference between the two pictures of the earth is all a result of different lenses and the distance from the camera to the earth.
I use to have a round globe but I threw it away some months ago. If I still had it I can assure you I could easily reproduce that affect by simply changing the distance from the object to the camera and playing with lens angles.
As an example if you were exactly 100 miles above Kansas and took a picture of the earth with a fish-eye lens, what you would have would be a picture of the earth (round of course) which would be all land. You would see nothing of the Atlantic Ocean on the east, you would see nothing of the Pacific Ocean to the west, but you would however see a sliver of the Gulf of Mexico to the south- south east. To the north east you would see the eastern tip of Lake Superior on the horizon and also the southern tip of Lake Michigan. Lake Erie and Lake Ontario would be over the horizon. So that picture then would look as though the earth was almost all land. It would actually be a picture of the earth but would look different than a picture taken further up.
The pictures that you posted, the one picture that looks like North America is huge is taken at a distance of about 2000 miles from earth. The other picture is taken at a distance of about 15,000 miles from earth.
Climate change, back on topic lads. No need to believe me or thee, take it from the boys on the inside. FOLLOW THE MONEY. Gore was reported to have a collusion with Goldman sucks, the Vampire Squid to run the money game to clip the fees.
Climate change is a black cloud of lies raining money down unto science and politics.
If I were a scientist or physicist , I would rather focus on bridging the currently unknown link(s) between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.
Here the video I was referring too (that I saw on wimp.com) a while back. If you have not seen it yet, it really is an interesting nine minutes describing the fabric of space and gravity if you can find the “time”:
Administrator recaps (in full) Hans von Spakovsky’s article titled “16 [National Socialist Democrat American Party “Liberal” fascist asshole] AGs Begin Inquisition Against ‘Climate Change Disbelievers’” to expand upon my earlier comment about Senator Whitehorse, the Rhode Island Pinko who began taking up this particular bludgeon against scientific inquiry and freedom of speech last year.
And nobody comments further, all of us reading here being pretty well convinced that when it comes to the “Blue” faction in American politics, we really ARE talking about the moral equivalent of the Red Guards.
==== excerpt ====
“Manmade Global Warming” is a collection of ideas that have been thoroughly discredited by real science for years. Yet you would never know it by observing the behavior of politicians, media personalities, and certain corrupt academics and scientists. There is not now, nor was there ever any scientifically respectable evidence for global warming. Like Lysenkoism, it is a complete and total fabrication, a hoax.
Yet it continues to have a strictly political life because, just as Lysenkoism served Stalinism by backing up Marx’s flawed notions — Global Warming serves today’s collectivists by offering them an excuse to seize control, not merely of the means of production, but of each moment, every aspect of the lives of every individual under their thumbs.
To be absolutely certain the opportunity isn’t missed, dissenters — meteorologists and others willing to dismiss Global Warming as the crock it happens to be — have found themselves intimidated, denied funding and tenure, even fired. Here and there you’ll even see demands that “climate change deniers” be prosecuted, imprisoned, or executed. Somewhere, the ghosts of Stalin and Lysenko are having a huge laugh together.
— L. Neil Smith, “Lysenko’s Revenge” (30 August 2009)
[see http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2011/tle607-20110213-07.html ]
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Well, speak of the devil. Paul Driessen gets a “guest opinion” slot this afternoon on Anthony Watt’s Web log, titled “Prosecuting climate chaos skeptics with RICO” [see http://tinyurl.com/gvtqafu ].
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Spurred on by Senator Sheldon “Torquemada” Whitehouse (D-RI), Jagadish Shukla and his RICO-20 agitators, and their comrades, 16 of the nation’s 18 Democratic attorneys general (the other 32 are Republican) announced on March 29 that they are going after those who commit the unpardonable offense of questioning “consensus” climate science.
If companies are “committing fraud,” by “knowingly deceiving” the public about the threat of man-made carbon dioxide emissions and climate change, New York AG Eric Schneiderman intoned, “we want to expose it and pursue them to the fullest extent of the law,” under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act. “The First Amendment does not give you the right to commit fraud.”
Their initial target is ExxonMobil, but other companies, think tanks like CFACT and the Heartland Institute (with which I am affiliated), and even independent researchers and analysts (like myself) will be in their crosshairs – using a law intended for the Mafia. Incredibly, even United States Attorney General Loretta Lynch says her office has “discussed” similar actions and has “referred [the matter] to the FBI.”
These RICO investigations and prosecutions are chilling, unprecedented and blatantly un-American. They abuse our legal and judicial processes and obliterate the First Amendment freedom of speech rights of anyone who questions the catechism of climate cataclysm. The AGs’ actions are intended to browbeat skeptics into silence, and bankrupt them with monumental legal fees, fines and treble damages.
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DRUD @ 12:10 pm says: “Now, one caveat I will put forth: I am explaining all of this in Newtonian terms. The Quantum Mechanical plays into the Newtonian in completely unpredictable and I believe quite misunderstood ways. Newtonian Gravity works great for motion on earth and most motion in the Solar System, but completely falls apart as the lens widens to the Cosmic. General Relativity has been the go-to explanation for almost a century, but still leaves huge holes. My point is, I think there is a rational component to our existence (I make my living using the rational to make real things, aka engineering) but I also believe there is very much a irrational component as well.
To sum up: (1) Newtonian gravity works very well to describe virtually all motion on this planet, including that of water molecules.”
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Regarding the closing of the gap between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, what is the difference? What if it is the vacuum of the cosmos? My understanding is that, currently, experts are trying to make the connection(s) to “The Theory Of Everything” via gamma radiation and waves of light.
But what if it’s the vacuum? Kind of like a submarine in the ocean. If one leaves the submarine, they would be subject to different forces than within the bubble of the submarine itself. The ocean representing the vacuum of space (Relativity) and the submarine represented within the “mass of objects” (Quantum Mechanics).
In any event, my only hope is that some 200+ IQ physicist stumbles upon this thread and combines some of the excellent scientific commentary and observations here along with my juvenile theories and it, unexpectedly, triggers a formula within his (or her) mind that bridges all gaps.
Then, our world will segue into a new era. A “Jetsons” type existence whereby the mysteries of dark matter and anti-gravity will be solved and we will all enjoy flying cars, free energy and world peace.
In the meantime, where did I put my bong? Oh yeah. There it is, over by my magic mushrooms.
Gotta go for now. The Vinyl Store just called and my requested selection of Grateful Dead records are now in stock.
Until next time… 🙂
Also, before I go, another interesting article:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6558-quantum-quirk-may-give-objects-mass/
HSF – virtually all of your assumptions about gravity are just wrong. Not a one of them is correctly conceived and from those false assumptions you, of course, draw false conclusions. Everyone’s attempts to instruct you fall on deaf ears because you find another false assumption to use to counteract the information presented. I want to reiterate the previous comment that a blog comment section is not a place for a course on Newtonian physics, but having said that, much of what you have been told here is basically true. It is your understanding of the world around you which is compromised and none of the guidance from you friends here on TBP is likely to guide you as you lack the underlying physical education. It is this lack which has caused you to clasp upon false assumptions and thereby come to false conclusions.
Having said that, let me direct your attention to this video which clearly shows that both a feather and a bowling ball are affected by gravity in the exact same way. It is simply that the feather is affected more by the friction of the air in the room than is the bowling ball. The smoke is even lighter than the feathers in this video and as such, is caused to move upwards by forces which are much larger than those applied to the masses by the gravitational field of the earth.
Sorry but I am just not smart enough to imbed a video.
Rob writes of “HSF – virtually all of your assumptions about gravity are just wrong. Not a one of them is correctly conceived and from those false assumptions you, of course, draw false conclusions. Everyone’s attempts to instruct you fall on deaf ears because you find another false assumption to use to counteract the information presented.”
Actually, this has been (and continues to be) a pretty good exercise.
Ever heard of what’s facetiously known as “the Bellevue Method” in medical education and training? It goes – VERY cynically – “See one, do one, teach one,” meaning that the medical student or intern or resident or fellow watches a diagnostic or surgical procedure once, performs that procedure once, and then teaches that procedure to a junior guy.
It’s a truism in all academic disciplines that if you don’t grasp a concept well enough to make it intelligible to a well-intentioned neophyte, you don’t really grasp the concept at all.
Now, I’ll admit that I like to fuck around by deliberately making shit seem obscure, but then I’m a cynical, vicious, hard-hearted, sadistic old son of a bitch, and apart from using Geritol as a drinks mixer, there aren’t many pleasures in what’s left of my life, and you’re lucky I’m not using Denko-Rub as the lubricant for your prostate examination, so bend over, bitch, and grab your ankles….
HSF – I know that this might be a little confusing but what this video shows is that smoke does not raise in a vacuum. It falls under the influence of gravity just like the feathers and the bowling ball.
OMG – look, I did insert a video. It just has to be at the end of the post. Well see, we all learn something new every day.
You all just assume all of these newtonian explanations are chiseled in stone. I’ll guess you dig darwin too:
Yeesh, I feel like my next post needs to be an explanation of intro p-chem (gen chem to most.)
Some of you guys have really wandered here lol
Uncertain – I think the theories you are talking about are Dark Matter and Dark (or Zero Point) Energy….basically the idea that a vacuum isn’t empty…that free space (much like free shit) just ain’t free.
The issue in my mind is that of the Six Blind Men and the Elephant. The truth greatly, even in physics, greatly depends on one’s own point of view. We have exactly on point from which to examine a Cosmos vast and ancient beyond imagining. We assume that everything acts like it does from our vantage point just as it does from every other one…is this true? No one can know…but we have no choice but to assume that it is or everything is just a wild-ass guess.
As far as combining Relativity and Quantum Mechanics that has been the Holy Grail of physics for nearly a century. My favorite is the lamely named Quantum Relativity. At least it has some brand new thinking behind it…the idea is that basically, instead of Time and Space being this giant canvas upon which the Cosmos is painted…Time and Space are themselves created by the interaction of quanta…a theoretical smallest unit of Space, Time, Fundamental Forces, Matter, etc.