FORWARD: I tend to be long-winded, so this article has been greatly shortened in the hopes that someone will actually read the damned thing. I’m not publishing this under my own name, so don’t expect academic levels of references and figures. You disagree with something, start a war in the comments.
The 1800s set the tone for mankind’s future, not just politically, but economically and scientifically as well. It was at this point when we began to understand that our actions may have a lasting effect on the global carrying capacity for humanity. The concerns have always wavered back and forth, but at the end of the day the predictions all mean the same thing:
“Doom” is a terrible scientific conclusion, as it is rooted deeply in emotion; however, doom is an excellent political conclusion as fear-mongering has long been a preferred tool for those with special interests, and unfortunately the budding science of climatology has been used time and again to push an agenda.
Today, climate change is as divisive a topic as can be found, pitting allies, neighbors, and even family against each other. This all or nothing approach to a very serious and complex problem is yet another challenge America faces in its attempts to stand united.
A Brief Background of Climate Change
The Greenhouse Gas Effect Theory is currently the science underpinning this latest issue. Dating back to 1896, the Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius calculated that different gases (most noticeably: Water vapor, carbon dioxide, and methane) had an effect whereby they would trap the amount of infrared energy in a system, increasing the temperature.
The original observations were considered to be non-important from a Doomsday perspective, as Arrhenius concluded that the effect would take many thousands of years to actually be a factor. As time moved forward, scientists continued to build upon and tweak Arrhenius’ work, isolating carbon dioxide as a contributor, and also discovering worrying trends in past-climate trends (paleoclimatology) where previously stable Ice Ages were discovered to have actually contained many smaller episodes, and in fact were not stable at all, regularly flipping from one state to another.
Alarm began to build in scientific circles, and by the 1960s the rising use of aerosols had caused a rise in smog around the industrialized world, as well as the relatively new phenomenon, Acid Rain. These two very visual concerns led to the beginning of the “Doomsday” crowd, with in 1970 scientists warned of an imminent Ice Age if mankind did not soon change their ways. Legislature passed during this time helped to greatly reduce the Acid Rain caused by industry and other irresponsible use of chemicals.
As one problem was conquered, another took its place in the form of a growing hole in the ozone layer located in the Southern Hemisphere. Fast global action proved strong enough to overcome this challenge, as the international outlaw of CFCs and reduction in HCFC use greatly increased the strength of the Earth’s ozone layer.
As the ozone layer slowly began its healing journey, the politician scientists pivoted to the next target on their hit list: The Greenhouse Effect.
Previous climate issues were fairly cut and dry: sulfur dioxide causes acid rain and HFCs destroy the ozone. But, this time is different, this time the smoking gun was not as easy to identify. The Greenhouse Effect is primarily driven by carbon dioxide, with methane being a close second. The problem seems simple, right? Just decrease global CO2 and methane production! Unfortunately that would prove more difficult than previous concerns. The sources for carbon dioxide and methane are innumerable, and whereas prior problems could be readily substituted, reduction in carbon dioxide or methane production would destroy entire industries in some countries and would cause great harm to the economy of most others.
In 1992 the world met in Kyoto, Japan, and signed the Kyoto Protocol, which put some loose restrictions on the nations that signed the treaty. To be honest, this rather half-assed approach did little to appease anyone, as only the signees would be holding to their word, while rising powerhouses such as China and India would continue chugging right along, like the little coal-fired-engine-that-could. Half-assed measures get half-assed results, and the El nino of 1998 was all the excuse that was needed. The Doom is back, this time assuring us that our planet would become too hot to support our current way of life, and if we did not make changes soon then we would all be featured in a real life Water World – a fate worse than death according to Costner’s acting career.
Climate change has only gotten more divisive since then, with hockey-stick graphs on one side, and receding glaciers on the other. Is the climate heating? Is it cooling? One ice sheet thickens (Antarctica) while the other grows thinner (Arctic). Some heat is missing, while other locations are too hot.
The simple truth is that Climate Change is not the worldwide threat its been sold to be and is nothing more than a giant, monetized distraction.
The Politics of Climate Change
Al Gore has long been at the forefront for combating “carbon dioxide.” Citing his college professor as his inspiration, Al Gore has become borderline obsessed with greenhouse gases, and how to combat them. His pressure on the US government and media has created a push for green energy kicking off a “gold rush” for the green energy sector. Suddenly money is flooding in, and as we all know, where government money flows, corruption follows. What was initially a dripping spigot of free money turned into several industries over night, with things like solar power and cellulosic ethanol promising to completely destroy the “evil” fossil fuels sector.
Well, the stage was set, and the show must go on. We have fossil fuels and capitalism playing the part of the bad guy, Al Gore and his activists the valiant hero, and “green” technology acting as the magical weapon that will slay the evil pollution beast and save us all. Dissenters are mocked and careers ruined. If you doubt the science on climate change you are met with outright scorn and disbelief, so thorough has the marketing been for this particular “doom” cult.
The rest of the modern world has thrown their lot in with Gore and his cronies as there’s never been a government that didn’t want more control over its people, and once again they have that age old excuse “its for your own good.” As the fever pitch of outraged do-gooders has risen, so has the amount of money flowing from the government (the public) into poorly thought out schemes and technologies. People like to feel important, and the relentless campaigns by governments, activists, and bored people worldwide have ushered in a new era of NIMBY policies that ostensibly are for the good of the environment, but really just defer the cost onto a different location (*cough* Chinese made batteries *cough*)
At this point it is borderline impossible to determine whether or not the Earth’s climate is warming due to just how highly politicized this topic has become. Papers that disagree with the media’s version of climate science are prevented from publication, or even never funded to begin with. The research that has been published in support of climate science is continuously being revised, and the models are constantly being updated as they fail time and again to demonstrate any ability to predict the future.
The Real Problem
While the two ends of the climate change spectrum sling mud at each other, very real damage is occurring to our planet’s carrying capacity virtually unnoticed. Oceans, forests, and fresh water tables all have been devastated, and every last one of these have been fully preventable.
The Ocean, once a bountiful supply of food for many populations, now have been depleted to the point where much of the Earth may as well be a desert when it comes to food availability. The fish are simply not there anymore, destroyed by wanton harvest of commercial operations and gross overestimation of supplies by industry experts.
Westernized countries have largely understood the value of their forests and have begun extensive re-planting programs, while the Third World and emerging markets have been plowing under their forests for palm oil production and substandard farmland. A short-sighted approach to a far-reaching problem.
Of course there is no money in these problems, no way for Western governments and their cronies to loot and pillage their way to a “solution”…so they go ignored in favor of hefty subsidies to buddies in the various “green” industries and their “good enough for government” results.
The greatest threat to our “life as we know it” isn’t gas from cow shit, but instead wind from bullshit – and the Western world keeps eating it up as their leaders pile it higher and deeper, drowning us in piles of complete nonsense in an attempt to shame everyone into giving more of their future over to government control.
Dear robby,
Good luck to all of your vaunted, fabled canadian hockey teams in the upcoming playoffs. Oh, wait…
As I said earlier, good luck to you.
Nitey nite
aw now that one hurt.
not really.
cz you are a fucking loser get to church and gpray for some common sense. Shirley to God he can perform another miracle. He is a kind and just god. He has a sense of humour too! He makes believers that are as stupid as french toast. You being proof positive of that…
“Shirley to God he can perform another miracle. ”
He can perform another miracle and don’t call Him Shirley.
(apologies to Leslie Nielsen) 😉
🙂
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TPC nails it! There is no place like The Burning Platform! Send a donation. Mine is late, but forthcoming.
Well it’s settled then,,, “it’s turtles all the way down!”
So, cz is a Creationist. These are people who believe the earth is no more than 10,000 years old … and that dinosaurs were on the Ark.
Yeah, uh-uh, yet this is the guy who is so proud in questioning everything. hahaha!!!!
You’ve been duped. Arguing with a Creationist will turn you into a retard.
ASIG… Loved that one. I will share that with my son, who is a semester and a half from being a computer engineer and is sure he knows everything.
Unfriendly, I really don’t need a champion, but thanks. EC is out there somewhere to give this nasty version of fermented Jellyfish the bidness.
HSF… I may not be able to completely combat the gravity theory, but as far as magnetism? I am an asswipe magnet who seems to attract some of the rudest assholes who visit TBP and want to pick on someone they assume is weak. However, I am a survivor.
Unfriendly… read your follow-on “threat” and had to laugh…
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Well THAT wasn’t funny was it? Try this guy.
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😉
The Socratic Paradox.
It amazes me that whenever people ask questions about things they are not certain of, the crowds descend. Human nature, I guess. Social cues that require a unified front against anyone who questions accepted paradigms.
Okay, I can certainly live with that, wouldn’t be the first time I’ve stepped on the third rail.
I spent the day boiling syrup yesterday and a friend of mine came over to give me a hand. It snowed all day- I thought that AGW proponents would have a plausible explanation for the unseasonably cold weather we’ve been having, but for me it added to the experience; the roaring fire in the arch, the snowfall at my back with the cold air pouring in. As we worked I talked to him about a discussion I had been having earlier in the morning on the Internet, about global warming, about flat eath theory about gravity and the bucket full of water. I tried to explain my questions and my observations and he added the parts that he understood and it was a really great conversation. The entire time we watched sap boil, water evaporate, steam rise, syrup darken, brix rise, and wastes coalesce on the surface of the main pan. When the foam became too heavy we added a drop or two of tallow to break the surface tension, when the temperature of the concentrate rose to 219 degrees we drew off the syrup and measured the sugar content using the hydrometer. We added wood to the arch repeatedly and as the syrup came closer to draw off temperature we added smaller sticks of hardwood to rapidly raise the temperature in the front pan. All the while we maintained a steady flow of sap into the pans, checked the floats to maintain a uniform depth, kept the wood stocked near the front of the arch- 2 cords total for the day- switched tanks off as the emptied and on as sap was needed. It is a ballet of activity, carrying pails of syrup, hotter than the boiling point of water into the finishing room, cleaning up as we work, maintaining a constant fire, spinning more plates than the guy on the Ed Sullivan Show in order to make 25 or 30 gallons of syrup. Call that what you will, but every aspect of that single endeavor is packed with science, the real deal- theory, postulation, experiment and data. I may not know the first thing about plate tectonics or gravitational waves, but I know how to make maple sugar from sap, over and over, again and again and everything that goes into it from soil to syrup.
I know that most people consider what I do to be a step down socially from my previous occupation, that any dirt clod can farm, that “it’s a lot of hard work” and the underlying implications of that statement- drudgery, filth, sweat and a dim mind. That the man who would voluntarily choose something like this is just a step up intellectually from the animals he serves. We live in a society where the vast majority of people have so completely turned their backs on the agrarian lifestyle that many people truly believe that food comes from a grocery store, that to kill an animal is to engage in a form of barbarism and that if we advance just a little bit further we can do like the Jetsons and live off of pills with just the right blend of vitamins and minerals. All the while people get fatter, sicker, more addicted to drugs. The more money we pour into schools the more illiterates we turn out into adulthood. Instead of doing, people spend the vast majority watching; big screens and small ones, other people living other lives while their own existence is defined by narrower parameters and smaller circles of real friends and neighbors. If the world had been made immeasurably better by the advances we’ve made in the past half century there would be evidence of it, yet the contrary seems true. The path we are now on appears- to me- to be the wrong one and that requires that we make some kind of choice to either remain in harness with society and its aims or unhitch ourselves and head out in a different direction. And that is what we’ve chosen to do.
I am not offended by being called ignorant, or racist or any of the other terms that have been tossed my way because of the things I have said. I am my own man with my own thoughts and every opinion I hold, every question I ask, every position I take is based on one underlying principle and that is this- to thine own self be true. I seek answers to questions because I don’t know them. I question authority because it is the one constant of history that other men will deceive you. My friend observed at one point yesterday that as good as some people are- he happens to be an EMT who has devoted his life to helping save people’s lives- there are those who work just as hard, every waking hour of their day to be cruel and evil. It drives them in the same way that making the world a better place drives us. I know this to be true because I have known people just like that, people who enjoy the misfortune and misery of others, who find deep satisfaction when others are in pain,confusion or sorrow.
One of the reasons I have hung my hat in this particular corner of the Interwebs is that I have found it to be welcoming to ideas that in other places people would clutch at pearls. Most of the poster here are as liberal in the true sense of the word as I have found anywhere. They can listen to one perspective and come back with another and no one is offended. They can dish out cruel barbs and not take them personally, offer encouragement and praise and have it mean something. I have learned more here in the past three years or so than most people will ever be exposed to at an Ivy League school and it has helped me to improve my life. What I bring to the table is a slice of my life that I had hoped would not only encourage others to do the same in whatever way they thought best served them, but honest inquiry into paradigms and ideologies that deserve scrutiny. The more I learn from experience, the less I trust from dogma. Organizations of men in power have deceived the masses for as long as they have existed, whether the Church or the Government. Not believing this fact doesn’t mean it isn’t true and if you simply accept certain proclamations and pronouncements because they come from authorities and experts doesn’t make you an authority or an expert, it makes you a dependent.
There are certain posters on here that know a lot more than I do about a wider range of subjects than I could ever begin to get my head around and they have earned my respect again and again, not because of their awards or positions, but because of their passion and their explanations. They take their time and give it freely to others when they contribute either in articles or comments and I am very grateful, whether they are didactic or inspirational, driven by anger or joy, funny or dry as toast. I have no degrees, no areas of specialization, no solid academic credentials, but I do write the things that I think about as honestly as I am able to do because that is my payment for being accepted into the community of those who honestly look for answers to their questions. I am kind of stunned by the responses I have gotten and honored to think that what I write has much value at all, especially after the drubbing I have taken in the past for my opinions, but then this is an unusual place.
So, my apologies for derailing the thread, it wasn’t intentional. Sorry Stucky for implying that you were incurious about the world, I only meant about the topic at hand.
I have learned a few things about gravity, but I have more questions than when I first started and I can see that I’m not the only one. Clearly the things we thought we knew about it are far more nuanced than most people would imagine (it’s so powerful that planets can be affected from hundreds of millions of miles away, but not so powerful that molecules can be affected at ground level). I absolutely believe the more I look at it that there is a deception within the scientific community to appear knowledgeable when in fact they really haven’t got a clue about most of the physical world and how it works as a whole, the theory of everything and as long as government funding keeps it in business, I don’t imagine it will ever be available for the betterment of everyone, but rather for those who seek to benefit themselves.
Time to begin the big cleanup, sorry if I caused any offense in anything I said above I was just asking questions where the answers available did not suffice.
HSF
Please do not count me as one of those people who thinks farming is a step down from other more noble pursuits. My Grand Father was a Great man, many things but first and foremost a farmer. He taught me self reliance and independence. To be brave enough and to be my own person. I do wonder sometimes when you ask questions as you do about science if you are playing me. Wonder if there is some sick joy in watching me lose my shit when invariably someone comes behind you. Loads yet more coal in boiler, speeds up train then intentionally switches track towards an inevitable crash.
It does bother me that I am then forced to debunk hokum that those interlopers proffer as fact. The flat earth model is an insult to physical evidence contrary. You are outside everyday. Please stop and look at the rocks, the outcrops. Especially the sedimentary sequences that abound everywhere in the Appalachian Range. Ask yourself how they could be deposited. Buried and turned to stone. In some cases metamorphosed. And all in the period of a couple thousand years. Then ask how could the Mountain Ranges of the world thousands and thousands of meters above water contain fossils of deep sea ocean life long since gone from this world. We have spent the last two hundred years discovering fossils. These fossils are created under rare conditions. Need millions of years to bury and form. But of course when presented with this evidence these people fall back to position is that those are just a test of faith. How does one argue with that. You can’t. I don’t have a problem with questioning things. My problem is that it should not be up to me to offer the solution. But that is how they want to do this. You start out trying to present facts. Ask them to get a telescope and look for themselves to the glorious heavens to Jupiter. And with their own eyes explain and propose a model that explains the winds of Jupiter. Travelling at different speeds the great red spot heaving back and forth across the planet. This universe is a place of wonder and yet these people would rather bury their heads in a book written thousands of years ago. Written by people even more backward than those living today in Afghanistan.
And then I get really pissed off when they say I offered nothing.
Jupiter is a beautiful planet. On a clear night it can seen it in sky. Get some binoculars, marvel with your own eyes at it’s glory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Red_Spot
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Now I am an atheist. It was a long road to get to where I am now. I was at one time Catholic. It is a personal choice. I respect those who believe. In some ways I yearn for the comfort that their is some over riding goodness in this world of men. But I don’t see it. I look around at all the problems and have to ask myself why an overarching goodness can’t step in and smite the offenders. Make things more right. In my life I watched two of my friends walk away from me and die in a mine explosion. I keep asking myself why this could happen in a world with this overriding love. Even now some 24 years later I verge from tears to rage in minutes when I think about it. And when people say those men are in a better place all I want to do is reach into their throats and rip their hearts out.
Please don’t ask me to show you the wonders of the world. I am not a great scientist. Just one who see wonders and looks for myself.
That in the end is all anyone can do. It seems sad that in a world of overabundance of information there are people who would rather not explore. It seems to me to be a waste. If there is a God he must be shaking his head in disbelief at what he has done.
Anyways keep writing I love your prose. I hope you can find room for me.
@HSF – You didn’t derail the thread, I just wish I had been in the office so I could have answered the question. I enjoy teaching adjunct chemistry as side work, from introductory level on up to graduate level, so I’m better equipped than most at breaking down a new topic.
As for looking down on farmers….I work in the animal feed industry, I smell pig shit every day, and I grew up on a hog farm, so its not like I’m above anybody.
HSF… I wrote a really scintillating reply to you and then was tested for being a robot by having to identify the images containing pasta and I guess I failed the test. I can’t reproduce the reply.
In summary, it was that you seem to be smarter than the average dumbshit I worked for or with at the Air Force Depot when I did Financial Analysis on the Program Management Team. I suggested that for myself, farming and raising animals is a lot more interesting that analyzing the costs of maintenance work on B-1’s or B-52’s.
Now, if I don’t get quizzed on what pasta looks like again, this might make it.
In my later years I have turned to gardening; growing barely enough to make any difference to my own family, but I’m not in it to reduce the grocery bills. I’m in it to put dirt in planters and flowerpots, plant seeds in chilly spring winds, watch sun and water and time turn nothing into the twisting vines of tomatoes, orange-based green sprays of carrots, tall green stalks of corn and squat bushy stalks of bean plants. I don’t get paid for it and probably spend too much money for the return, but oh, the TASTE of home-grown, fully ripened tomatoes! Crunchy green peppers, tangy onions and crisp green peapods! Whatever I spend in time and money comes back in produce and peace of mind. I don’t have anywhere near enough land in this city to farm anything, but I do not look down on farmers at all – I grew up with too many of them to have any illusions about how simple it is!
I was about fifteen, and Mr. Wilson, a real farmer, rented two fields from us to grow hay. He hired me and my brother Alden at $2.50 an hour to bale hay when it was ready. His wife drove the truck hauling a thirty-foot flatbed trailer and a cooler full of water; Mr. Wilson himself was too old and damaged to haul, but his boy was on top of the trailer helping out. In the July heat she drove around and around the already-baled field, as we walked behind; grab an eighty-to-one-hundred pound bale of hay, THROW it five to eight feet horizontal / vertical up onto the trailer, where his boy would have to grab it, lift it onto position in a herringbone weave to prevent shifting, and set it in time to grab the next one. Four or five hours passed as Mr. Wilson appreciated the challenges: “There was so much rain in March I had to seed this field twice; we didn’t really get enough rain in June to grow it as thick as it could have. The price of hay isn’t as good this year as last, and I’m going to need to get another crop in before October if I’m going to have enough to sell and feed my cows. I think God made farmers to illustrate the futility of planning for the future! Maybe next year will be easier to raise something worth selling.” Then, at the conclusion of a hot, sticky, bone-weary day, “Boys, what do I owe you?” “Uhh, lessee, two-fifty times five is twelve-fifty, Mr. WIlson.” Pulling out a roll of bills as big as my fist, “Damn! Should have stopped by the bank, the smallest thing I have is a twenty (for each of you). Enjoy it then, we’re square and I really thank you for your help”. Mr. Wilson, wife and son drove off with a load of hay, a good day’s aching and bruises and our gratitude.
I do understand and appreciate farming, just not sure I could ever do it. I think I’ll stick with gardening.
Rob, no worries and no I am not catfishing you or anyone else.
Yeah, it is a wonderful world and yes, every question begs another. The thought that I would even CONSIDER flat Earth theory would have sent me off the rails ten years ago.
I don’t currently have ANY theories about ANY of the things we talked about in this thread. Like I said above, I understand the science of turning tree sap into maple syrup and each of the processes involved because I did the experiments myself and have repeated them successfully over and over again and again with the exact same results. That doesn’t make me a scientist, but it does mean I have proven to myself the science behind each one of those steps rather than accept it from an authority on their word alone.
The gravity thing is a good example because it demonstrates- and this thread proves it- that a lot of what we have all been taught by our physics teachers in the past has been somewhat short of the full truth. I learned that everything that was physical in the Universe was made of atoms and that every known element conformed to a molecular design that was immutable. I also learned that gravity was so powerful that it kept the entire solar system and all of its subsets in a perfect synchronicity because there was an unalterable attraction of masses. Yesterday during the discussion I learned that that is not always true. That’s huge. The far larger mass of the Earth doesn’t offer enough gravity to control the tides at sea level, but the far smaller mass of the Moon at a quarter of a million miles does. The atmosphere (made up of molecules) rises away from gravity of the massive Earth while in certain states it is drawn towards Earth. The gravity of Earth is strong enough to keep the rising molecules of the atmosphere drawn to it instead of escaping into the immutable pull of the vacuum of Space…
I could go on, but that was enough for my mind to mull over for a day.
I think about these things because I want to understand them. The world is so beautiful, so surreal, so ineffably profound that to not think about it would be heresy. When people respond to these questions- and let’s be fair, they are reasonable- that I must have been on LSD to even question the orthodoxy, let’s just say I get the feeling that I am on to something.
The Church, we are told, maintained a rigid control over the people of Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire by controlling the narrative, installing a priesthood that served as authorities, preserving a doctrine of complete adherence to it’s belief system that doggedly rooted out dissent, punished disbelievers and extracted wealth from the population in order to expand it’s power.
Then the Reformation took place where we are told men for the first time had access to knowledge and could decide for themselves what was Truth, science began to ask questions and through rigorous experimentation determine specific realities. Over time the creative aspects of the Renaissance turned into the economic drivers of materialism and capital. These human constructs- not natural, not scientific, but theoretical and abstruse- gained dominance and a new system of human social order emerged with new clerics and Popes dictating new dogmas. Apostates were hunted down and expelled just as the old ones had been, social pressure exerted to help maintain a power structure, dogmatic doctrines put in place and heretics expelled. The one constant was one part of mankind’s desire to control and dominate another through the use of extortion, adherence to narrative and control of information. The Internet was no different from the Gutenburg type in that it gave access to previously controlled information to everyone who was literate. Now people who previously had no access to information outside of the publicly accepted narrative could discuss questions they had with others and that led to a great leap forward in human understanding. Science which has for the past century been nothing more than a combination of technics (tools of warfare and control) and distractions (TV/Igadgets/videogames) employed to control the populations.
One more anecdotal story to explain the reason behind my falling away from the Church of Science. I’ve probably written about it before and if I have, forgive the repetition. I have collected Indian artifacts my whole life and have a pretty large collection, the vast majority picked up in my hometown in NJ. I learned the types, the materials, the sources, the styles, the ages, etc until I was probably the best authority on the artifacts of my particular region. Again, no degree, but plenty of experience. I made friends with many credentialed archaeologists and shared my finds with them. Specific finds made them very uncomfortable because they contradicted the official narrative of the State sanctioned science of archaeology; Roman coins, cast iron at depths of six feet, bronze, etc. I wasn’t showing them these pieces to screw up their beliefs, I was sharing them to help me understand how these things could have been where they ought not have been according to everything I had learned up to that point. As I looked for answers I became friends with other people who had discovered the same kid of artifacts, Gary Fogelmen of Indian Artifact Magazine was one of the most knowledgeable and helpful of all of them, but again, he was self taught, not credentialed and the people who contributed to is publication were in that camp, overwhelmingly. The more these people brought this kind of thing up, the more the official policy of the State began to crack down. What had once been a really interesting hobby was now classified as a crime and when NAGPRA passed, the government began to seize collections and deny that certain artifacts ever existed. You want some further proof of this read these-
http://archive.archaeology.org/9701/etc/specialreport.html
http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-evidence-supports-solutrean.html
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/04/02/fbi-seizing-artifacts-rural-indiana-home/7210675/
It became clear to me that the official policy of the State narrative wasn’t to discover the truth about anomalous finds, but rather to reinforce their particular view of history. That’s not science, is it? And if one person with only their own experience can begin to see that scientific inquiry had transformed into social control and political narrative, wouldn’t it be prudent to begin to examine other aspects of the official story about everything?
I get long winded when I am putting off working on something I don’t want to do.
Clean up.
Gotta go.
Question authority. One of the things I love about TBP is that the people here are some of the most aware on the planet when it comes to the realization that TPTB is the enemy. But we all have our blind spots that are so ingrained that we don’t even realize that we are blindly following TPTB’s program in some regard. Then we get into arguments because we each think the other is the one who is blind. More often than not we’re both right 🙂
Rob in NC, I’m not trying to prove the expando planet theory. Geology is a science like any other and therefore it changes as new theories are proven and old theories are disproven. People who stick with the old theories that they learned in school and don’t even investigate the new theories are no better than the anthropogenic global warmists wanting to prosecute people for not believing their theories. If you’ve already investigated and dismissed the topic as an invalid theory based on the facts then that is as it should be. As a geologist I hope you can get much more data about the expando planet theory than I could find on the internet because it is a newish theory in your wheelhouse.
For those who don’t know about the expando earth theory, below is a video that I think gives a pretty good introduction for the lay person about it. One big part that is missing from this video is how/why the planet would expand. Others have theorized that the core of the earth is plasma and plasma + some types of solar radiation = new matter. From a lay person’s point of view I think that this theory is interesting as a possible replacement for the current theories. Does it fit the facts better than plate tectonics, continental drift and subduction zones? Only investigation by people more knowledgeable on the topic than I will tell.
Hardscrabble there is no church of science. You are conflating church dogma with the scientific method. They are not the same. It is a logical fallacy for you to propose this. You running around poisoning the well just like cz did last night. Okay if you don’t believe what is proposed when it comes to Indian artifacts in New Jersey. Well then propose your theory. Why is it so hard to do this. I hear all these anecdotes. Well this, well that. So you are going to question all science just because of Indian artifacts. Is there anything that can be put in column of accepted or is everything up for grabs. I mean I ask a simple question last night about winds of Jupiter and the response isn’t a reasoned model. It is more conspiracy here, more there. I would find the world an even more scary place if this is how I decided to frame it rather than just accept that there is no God.
One thing at a time. Can you go out and observe the outcrops of rocks and then ask if current theories on Geology fit as an explanation for how they were created. If you can’t then propose something else. Don’t use the “I understand tree sap” in an effort to downgrade your intelligence. By doing this you are asking the so-called believers in the church of science to prove for you whatever Theory is floating around using the preponderance of evidence that is readily available for all to see.
I always liked Geology. It is something you can touch and see outdoors. I am always amazed when I find a fossil for first time. Wonder at all the processes required from the death of specimen to my uncovering all the years later. The chance and randomness blows by my mind. The millions of years intervening. I was never much interested in particle Physics, the origin of Universe. Big Bang. For me that ‘s too theoretical. But that doesn’t invalidate those people who have made it their life’s work to study those things.
I live and the here and now. Geology is something concrete and yet dynamic. Always something to see. I can look at the ground or to the sky. I suppose it can be called my church. But even if I admit that it doesn’t somehow invalidate the scientific method.
So they want us to buy into some intangible, elusive, fraction of a degree change somewhere, under a new measurement scheme while ignoring the chemtrails that are splattered all over our skies.
It is like the shooting events and drills going on.
You either wake up or be a freaking retard…you chose.
Araven This is complete and utter bullshit.
I did a debunk on this at Christmas. If you want to read it. Be my guest. This fascination about Pangean super continent must be from Jurassic Park movies. It is only explanation I can come up with.
There have been many more super-continents since earth was created. For this theory to work each time the super-continent formed the earth deflated. It’s beyond fucking stupid to believe this. But whatever. You want to believe this fine.
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Based on current evidence this is what the Rhodinian super-continent looked like. Look it up. I am not even going to post the link. Be brave and explore for yourself.
Rob in NC, Apparently you just want to be pissy rather than help people understand the current theories as you understand them and you’d rather argue than read for comprehension. “This is complete and utter bullshit”. What exactly is complete and utter bullshit? That I’m not trying to prove the expando planet theory? That if you’ve already investigated and dismissed the topic as an invalid theory based on the facts then that is as it should be? That as an expert in the area you can (or should be able to) get more valid information than I, as a layperson, can get on the internet? That all sciences can and do change over time?
The multiple super-continent theory is one that I had not heard, so I may just Google it as you suggest. I do find it interesting, though, that you are disparaging people because you think they believe information that they researched on the internet, yet when I ask you for more information you tell me to look things up on the internet…
If you have a pointer to your debunk I would like to see it.
“It amazes me that whenever people ask questions about things they are not certain of, the crowds descend. Human nature, I guess. Social cues that require a unified front against anyone who questions accepted paradigms.” ———— HF
Oh, please!! Now you’re playing the Persecution Card? Woe is me! Those meany TBPers are massing a unified front against me! Yeah, just another damned conspiracy.
It’s not like you’re just asking any old common question. You’re asking questions that fly in the face of science. Questions about gravity and a flat earth …. questions that have been settled with an enormous amount of data ….. but, you feel superior and proclaim, in essence, “the data is bullshit!!”, while offering precious little as evidence. Just believe you, right? And you’re surprised at the blow back?
You’re a good man. A free man. Supporting his family. Teaching your children well. A perfect neighbor. No doubt, anyone you call “friend” is an extremely fortunate person. And you work the land — one of the most honorable “jobs” that exist. So much to admire about you. BUT, when it comes to science, well, you’re just fucken bat-shit crazy.
I accept your apology, if that’s what it was. Or, was it just an explanation? Well, I’ll accept that also. Let there be peace.
I said that because it is complete and utter bullshit. Use some common sense. There have been several super-continents. How does this model work with the previous ones. Please explain. But you are not going to do that. You are going to stick your thumb in your ass and claim ignorance.
Wow! What a model to use to proceed in life.
And don’t use that lay person bullshit on me. That is the tried and true strawman and I am not going to play.
As for the link. Find it yourself.
Oh yeah I am in Nova Scotia not North Carolina get that right at least.
“Then ask how could the Mountain Ranges of the world thousands and thousands of meters above water contain fossils of deep sea ocean life long since gone from this world.”
———– Rob in Nova Scotia
That’s PROOF there was a GLOBAL Flood in Noah’s day! THAT’S how seashells and shit got deposited on high mountains.
Dumbass. Why do I have to do all the heavy thinking around here?
“expando” Earth? That’s a new one. What? Like spandex? hahaha
:0
Today I learned:
The Earth is flat.
The Earth is expanding.
Continents are a lie.
Maple syrup tastes good.
Stucky is all knowing.
Stucky is easily confused.
Geologists have unexpected fire in their belly.
God created the Earth 10,000 years ago.
….and last but not least, Jim Quinn likes to stir shit up!
Rob in wherever, apparently you just want to be a jackass today. Congratulations, you’re doing an excellent job.
Fuck you Araven!
Pull that thumb out of your ass and stick it in your mouth. It will more than likely will taste the same as the shit that has been spewing out of your mouth.
Be brave and try something new!
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TPC… the last but not least can’t be news to you. You been here too long.
Maggie
Hope you still like me. I’m not usually this rude but I’m having fun throwing shit today. Maybe it’s the long winter getting to me. Who knows!
Anyways the warm weather will soon be here! I promise to be nice again.
And they call me the conspiracy whack job………..glad to have some company.
HSF has more horse sense than most here and that includes Stucky. Try to look at the construct with a open mind and not from the lifelong programming. Stand back and view the the situation using logic.
Rob in NS claims there is no dogma in science while being extraordinarily dogmatic in presenting his theories as facts, while he ridicules anyone else even bringing up the topic of an alternate theory, LOL. Keep going Rob, you’re taking jackassery to new heights today.
Araven
Keep sucking it has to get better!
Bea Lever buys into the wackadoodle idea that gravity ain’t what normal scientists say it is, and also the flat earth crappy-ola.
WOW … WHAT A FUCKEN” SURPRISE!!!!
“Today I learned:”…etc.
TPC, you forgot:
“we never went to the moon”.
That’s the most important one, IMO.
Rob… I like you BETTER now that I know you can stir the shit pot a little!
Stucky- I did not say I “buy into” the flat Earf theory. To be honest I have not had time to read much about it so as to form a final opinion.
You automatically condemn those who venture into uncharted territory that questions the official wisdom. HSF has an open mind and I commend him for that.
Stucky has a flat head and BELIEVES every official story. WOW…..WHAT A FUCKEN’ SURPRISE !!
OBTW- We did not go the moon.
“Stucky has a flat head and BELIEVES every official story.” —— Bea Lever (in bullshit)
“EVERY” official story?? You couldn’t be more wrong, Kimosabee Dickface.
Look up in the sky. Sun? ROUND! Moon? ROUND! ALL the planets and their moons (if you have a telescope)? ROUND! ……….. Earth? FLAT!! Bwaaaahahahahaha.
I can’t help it if you’re a fucken idiot.
Maggie- You spent your military career flying at high altitudes, can you confirm without a shadow of a doubt that at 30,000 ft on a clear day, the Earf has a very definite arched curvature?
Gosh Stuck………I must have missed the day you came out against a “Official Story”.
You still hang on to 9/11 like it was the gospel, Bwaaaaahahahhahaha! Sucker !!
If the universe is a hologram, what difference does it make as to the shape of the Earf?
Stucky should change HIS name to Bea Lever……..he believes anything TPTB dish out.
@ 2:24 pm Bea Lever says:
“If the universe is a hologram, what difference does it make as to the shape of the Earf?”
Bingo! We have a winner! Any comments beyond this are superfluous, except, of course the obligatory few comments to get this over the 200 mark.
Coming up on 200, come on you little shit throwers, you can do it!
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The Earth is a sphere, gravity is constant, and Araven smells like old socks.
Go!
OK…I want to take a shot at what’s running through my mind at the moment…I will screw it up and most certainly not get it all to page, but I’m juts going with it here,
HSF, for just a second blew my mind with the idea of Gravity not affecting a single water molecule…I quickly explained it to myself in a Newtonian framework…but I at least get where he was going with it. This ties in nicely with the Theory of Everything or Grand Unified Theory or whatever you want to call it. What I want to express is the NEED for such a theory and the impossibilities raised by trying to find it.
Take the world of Quantum Mechanics: things go Batshit crazy when they get tiny….particles act like waves, things skip from one place to another without traveling between them, one can do the same thing twice and get radically different results. Very fucked up.
YET, when you add all these tiny little pieces together you get a world (ours) where everything acts according to fairly basic Mathematical constructs derived 400 years ago (albeit by a genius) in a world yet to conceive of electricity, let alone computers. AND we can make all kinds of real, working shit following these very simple laws of motion, proving that the math is right and describes the real world as we interact with it. These laws of motion work (almost) perfectly for all the motion in our entire Solar System.
But existence doesn’t end at our Solar System. In fact, it seems to go on virtually forever in all directions,and when you start to look at the really, really, really big picture things no longer make sense. Light acts weird–sometimes behaving like a particle, sometime like a wave, always moving at the same speed regardless of one’s frame of reference–Newton’s very simple equation for “Universal Gravitation” breaks down in a big way and gravity looks to be more of a “bending” of space and time, however the fuck that happens, and even then, though the math works, now the universe has WAY too little mass to cause all the forces we seem to observe,
Damn it…so, tiny things don’t make nice intuitive sense to us and neither do really huge things. So, does anyone see the real problem here? IF the Cosmos is a rational place (an that is a huge “if” and all you atheists MUST be able to answer an immediate and conclusive “YES” or you are not proper atheists) THEN the tiny must sum to form the immense. Period. The Fundamental Forces that govern subatomic particles (Weak, Strong, Electrostatic) must somehow relate to the Force that governs the yuuuge (Gravity).
Hopefully, many of you see the conundrum—the only scale that makes real, intuitive sense to us is the scale which we can interact with everyday…yet, we throw out terms like “scientific method” to lay claim to pure logic, and that we have found real Truth (capital T) that would exist and has always existed even without us to see it (and interpret it). In other words, we observe the Cosmos from a tiny, unique perspective, develop models that depend entirely upon that perspective and then say that our perspective has nothing to do with it.
This is what I think HSF was going for when he was talking about scientific dogma.
Bea Lever
You are such a lying sack of pig shit. Inbred faggot. You surely are the product of cousins fucking.
9-11 is a huge mystery, and the official story is almost certainly mostly bullshit. I’ve said that over and over. You’re lying about what I said is nothing but your 8 inbred brain cells trying to score a point. Fail!!
You’re demolition theory and magic thermite is the only thing I don’t buy into. Now go jerkoff to that naked picture of your Cousin Ellie May.
200
Blow me.
Do I have to restore order to this thread?
DRUD- What are you trying to say, are you for or agin HSF.