The Maya: Who Woulda Thunk it?

 

Inasmuch America has a large population of Latin Americans, it seems to me that people, or some people, might want to know about them, and what they are, and where they came from. Most Latinos of the south are either a mixture of Spanish and Indian, or sometimes pure Indian. We have some idea of the Spaniards. They were European. But what were the Indians? What is their contribution to the great numbers of–whether you like it or not–new Americans? In particular, what are their blood lines? Are they, as nativists insist, of very low IQ–83–and have they enstupidated the Spanish? Horrendously primitive?

Without thinking about it, I had the entrenched idea that they were just that. I wasn’t conscious that it was either an idea or entrenched–just a fact. It didn’t occur to me that I knew virtually nothing about these  people, or that there was anything to know.

What pulled me up short was their architecture. Throughout a large region, sort of Yucatan through parts of Honduras, you find ruined cities of monumental architecture that would match most of what is found in the ancient Near East. A great deal of it is overgrown with jungle. To get to major sites like Palenque, you walk through dim  trails with unexplored walls and passageways.  But the existence of these ruins did not set well with the idea of primitive incapacity. The architecture was entirely Indian since they had no contact with Europe.

Maya city

Chiapas. Compares well with a lot of Roman monumental architecture. There are lots of these: Palenque, Tikal, Piedras Negras, Copán, Yaxchilan, Teotihuacan, Caracol, Uxmal, etc.

Maya-Condo

Chiapas. Time and the weather have not treated this building well, but it seems to me that these things must take considerable engineering talent.

Maya pyramid

Pyramid at Chichén Itsá. For scale, note people at lower left.

Aha! I thought with the  brilliance of one who has been hit over the head by the obvious. Something screwy is going on here. How witless can you be and engineer these things? I started poking around. And found interesting stuff. For example:

Mesoamerican Mathematics

The Maya invented a sophisticated base-20, positional-exponential number system, including zero. The invention of zero is regarded as major advance in mathematics, and occurred in India for sure and perhaps in other places, though never in Europe. Until Fibonacci brought zero back from the Hindu-Arab world, Europe used Roman numerals, a horrible system. I knew this, but had never thought about it. Well, it’s worth a little pondering.

In a positional number system, a number–7, say–has an absolute value–in this case unsurprisingly 7–as well as a different value depending on its position. For example, in the number 100,007, seven means, well, 7. In 100,070, its value is 70, and in 10,700, its value is 700.

“Exponential” means that each position in a number represents a different power of the base, in our case 10. Thus we have ten to the zero power equals one, to the first power, ten; squared, 100, cubed, 1000, and so on.

The Maya, using base twenty, had a similar progression, going 1, 20, 400, 8,000, 160,000 etc.. (Inevitably the choice of 20 as the base is attributed to our number of fingers and toes, though I have trouble imagining anyone actually counting on his toes.)

Neither of these ideas is obvious, or anywhere approaching obvious. Both eluded Archimedes, for example. They seem natural to us because were are steeped in them from the first grade and,  since everyone has had high school algebra, exponents seem routine. Using a thing and inventing it are very different animals. Any bright freshman can sling definite integrals; it took a Newton to invent them.

Imagine that you are a Mesoamerican Indian somewhere in Central America trying to figure out how to deal with large numbers. The fact that you are interested in large numbers suggests that you are not stupid. You have never had high-school algebra or heard of exponentiation. I cannot imagine how you would get from here to “Eureka!” (though as a Maya you probably didn’t know Greek either).

The idea  “Hey ,what if I line up powers of 20, multiply them by sort of coefficients, and add them….?”–is a huge intellectual leap. So far as I can determine, it only happened twice. It never happened in Europe.

For the mathematically curious, the Maya system had a remarkable peculiarity. Number systems, or anyway all I have heard of, require a number of symbols equal to the base. For example, binary, base-2, has two symbols, 0 and 1; decimal, base-10, ten symbols 0-9; and hexadecimal, base sixteen, 0-F.  So I thought, Oh help, I’m going to have to memorize twenty symbols of some weird sort.  In fact, the Maya ran a base-20 system with only three symbols representing  0, 1, and 5. That is truly strange, but it works. If interested, the link above explains it nicely.

For the record, from The Story of Mathematics: “The importance of astronomy and calendar calculations in Mayan society required mathematics, and the Maya constructed quite early a very sophisticated number system, possibly more advanced than any other in the world at the time ….The pre-classic Maya and their neighbours had independently developed the concept of zero by at least as early as 36 BCE, and we have evidence of their working with sums up to the hundreds of millions, and with dates so large it took several lines just to represent them. ”

Curious from a Stone Age people, which they essentially were. I note that Europe did not invent zero.

The Wheel

Maya Wheels
It is often said that the Maya never invented the wheel. Actually they did. Hundreds of these wheeled pull-toys for children have been found. Several writers have commented that it is difficult to understand why the Maya were unable to make the mental leap to the idea of making full-sized carts. But of course they could. Thing is, there were no animals to pull them, such as horses or donkeys. Making a mental leap to horses does not get you a horse.

Human Sacrifice

The Maya in the popular mind are thought to have been murdering, torturing savages given to human sacrifice. This is probably because they were in fact murdering, torturing savages given to human sacrifice. Why this is thought especially reprehensible is a mystery. The Romans sacrificed huge numbers in the arena so that the public could enjoy watching them die, crucified large numbers, and poured molten lead down the throats of criminals. In the European witch hunts, sort of 1450-1750, some 500,000 were killed depending on whose numbers you accept, mostly by burning alive. The Tudors hanged criminals, cut them down still alive, opened their abdomens and removed their bowels while still alive, and had four horses attached to their arms and-legs put them into pieces. And of course everybody and his dog  put entire cities to the sword, from Joshua to Hiroshima. Despite their best efforts the Maya could not keep up with the moderns.

Writing

The invention of writing is among the major intellectual achievement of humanity and one that occurred at most three or four times on the  planet, and perhaps fewer. Specialists argue, idiotically in m y view, over whether Chinese was or was not influenced by earlier writing. Specialists have to do something with their time. What is not arguable:

Wikipedia: “It is generally agreed that true writing of language (not only numbers) was invented independently in at least two places: Mesopotamia (specifically, ancient Sumer) around 3200 BC and Mesoamerica around 600 BC. Several Mesoamerican scripts are known, the oldest being from the Olmec or Zapotec of Mexico.”

The Maya script is logosyllabic and said to be functionally similar to Japanese, to which it is utterly unrelated. It is not “proto-writing,” but actual real writing. This was not immediately known because the script had  not been deciphered, but now about ninety percent can be read. This doesn’t help as much as might be expected since the Spanish Christians, as destructive as the Muslims of today, burned almost all Maya books–codices actually–and so everything we know comes from inscriptions carved on buildings. Imagine how we would look to Martians with the same problem. The book to read if interested is  Breaking the Maya Code.

 

The Arts

MayaPot1

MayaPot2MayaPot3

The aesthetic is a matter of taste but these to my eye appear artistically respectable. The Maya of today do nothing in math and technology, but retain a fine sense for design and the use of color.

Astronomy

Again from The Story of Mathematics: The Maya “were able to measure the length of the solar year to a far higher degree of accuracy than that used in Europe (their calculations produced 365.242 days, compared to the modern value of 365.242198), as well as the length of the lunar month (their estimate was 29.5308 days, compared to the modern value of 29.53059).” Try to imagine how they did it.

It is interesting that Europe invented neither writing, zero, nor its number system, but the Mesoamericans did all three. Perhaps the Indians were enstupidated by the admixture of Spanish blood. While this is all good fun, it again raises the question of how and why groups pass through periods of intellectual fertility and then stop, as the Maya certainly have. Always there is some pat genetic explanation that doesn’t make sense, can’t be established, or both. But the Indians did what they did. Interesting stuff, no?

 

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48 Comments
ursel doran
ursel doran
August 4, 2016 12:28 pm

EXCELLENT work Senor Fred, fascinating.
Am an old fan from way way back..

unit472
unit472
August 4, 2016 12:42 pm

Mayan astronomy was impressive and if social and cultural beliefs are based on astronomical phenomenon then a method of calculating is necessary. Where you have a few centuries to solve a problem you can often find the solution. To the Mayans a numerical system was vital while Europe was more interested in ratios and if ‘zero’ was an important tool for numerical calculation understanding ‘Pi’ was at least as revolutionary as it led to gears and clocks.

Mayan architecture otoh is relatively primitive. Compare the Pyramid at Chichén Itsa, generally considered the most impressive example, with Chartres Cathedral built around the same time. Blocks of stone were laid upon one another to make both edifices but one is just that, a pile of stones whereas European cathedrals were light and airy spaces with the stone work holding vast interiors and soaring steeples.

Rise Up
Rise Up
  unit472
August 5, 2016 9:33 am

@unit472 – “primitive”? you say? Hardly!

“As unique and spectacular as any Greek or Roman architecture, Maya architecture spans many thousands of years; yet, often the most dramatic and easily recognizable as Maya are the fantastic stepped pyramids from the Terminal Pre-classic period and beyond. Being based on the general Mesoamerican architectural traditions these pyramids relied on intricate carved stone in order to create a stair-step design. Each pyramid was dedicated to a deity whose shrine sat at its peak. During this “height” of Maya culture, the centers of their religious, commercial and bureaucratic power grew into incredible cities, including Chichen Itza, Tikal, and Uxmal. Through observation of the numerous consistent elements and stylistic distinctions, remnants of Maya architecture have become an important key to understanding the evolution of their ancient civilization.

With the decipherment of the Maya script it was discovered that the Maya were one of the few civilizations where artists attached their name to their work. The art of the Maya has been called the richest of the New World because of the great complexity of patterns and variety of media expressions. Limestone structures, faced with lime stucco, were the hallmark of ancient Maya architecture. Maya buildings were adorned with carved friezes and roof combs in stone and stucco. With large quantities of limestone and flint available, plaster and cement were easily produced. This allowed the Mayans to build impressive temples, with stepped pyramids. On the summits were thatched- roof temples. Evidence show that the early Maya architects were using the corbel vault principle, which is arch like structures with sides that extend inward until they meet at the top. ”

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http://www.crystalinks.com/mayanarch.html

Credit
Credit
August 4, 2016 12:45 pm

” it again raises the question of how and why groups pass through periods of intellectual fertility and then stop,”
1. the gods no longer favor them, or
2. diversity “is not” our strength, despite this current trendy sjw mantra, thus
their culture has devolved toward lesser freedoms thus stifling manifest intent in the populace.

rhs jr
rhs jr
August 4, 2016 2:26 pm

I suspect the Olmec did have some contact with people from Europe. Fred didn’t mention the Indian’s contribution to our diet (corn, squash, potatoes, tomatoes, chocolate, vanilla, peanuts, gum) not to mention Tacos and Burritos.

AWB
AWB
August 4, 2016 3:15 pm

Are we really going to compare the discovery of the Americas and the treatment of aborigines with the genocide being perpetrated in the ME today and historically by Muslims?

Spaniards traveled for months by sea risking all to claim the new world for Spain. What have the Muslims risked, and in whose name do they commit their atrocities?

Nice try. 2 out of 3?

Full Retard
Full Retard
  AWB
August 4, 2016 6:19 pm

AWB tries to hijack the thread. Fred never even mentioned Arabs or the ME. Nice try, asshole.

Maggie
Maggie
  Full Retard
August 5, 2016 7:56 am

Out of respect, Aye Dubya Bee should change his moniker.

Vodka
Vodka
August 4, 2016 3:17 pm

The wheels on children’s toys, but on nothing else useful or practical is baffling. But the Romans invented the steam engine in the form of little desktop size contraptions that served merely for amusement, and it probably never occurred to them to scale it up for useful ‘work’ when slave labor was so prevalent.

The Catholic priests destroyed the Mayan codices because they were, in part, instruction manuals for summoning the spiritual realm on a level of such blackness and stark evil that it was said to have shook the Christian scholars who studied them to their proverbial core.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  Vodka
August 4, 2016 6:25 pm

Really, Vodka? Fred is describing the achievements of a civilization that had an interest in science and math and you reduce them to superstitious necromancers. I guess the old proverb still holds: if your brown, stay down. My gosh, your 165 IQ privilege is showing.

Vodka
Vodka
  Full Retard
August 4, 2016 8:55 pm

Charles Manson might have had an interest in science and math too, but that doesn’t change the facts of what he did. You seem especially worked-up over this discussion of Beaner history.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  Vodka
August 5, 2016 12:44 am

Maya history, they dominated Central America. He didn’t mention the Aztec Empire centered in Mexico City. Those guys were assholes who concentrated on collecting tribute from surrounding tribes, human sacrifice and making war, sort of like Washington.

Vodka, I don’t have time to get worked up. I know Fred was yanking your chains when he slyly threw in the comment that such things weren’t done in Europe. Do you take me for a noob?

Maggie
Maggie
  Full Retard
August 5, 2016 7:58 am

I’m struggling to understand the reference to the wheels on childrens’ toys.

Marco
Marco
August 4, 2016 3:56 pm

IQ is a bell curve
Genius and inspiration can occur in any population. It’s rare everywhere.
The technologies we take for granted stand on discoveries of less than 50 people.
Most people are capable of superstition, hate and fear.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  Marco
August 4, 2016 6:30 pm

IQ is measured and graded in percentiles along a bell curve. It is not the bell curve.

Credit
Credit
  Full Retard
August 4, 2016 7:31 pm

IQ is the underlying data that creates a bell curve formation in representative populations on a graph of percentages.

the tumbleweed
the tumbleweed
August 4, 2016 4:00 pm

Yes, Fred, we know you live in Mexico and lovvvvves it so much.

Dutchman
Dutchman
August 4, 2016 4:21 pm

Hold it, hold it. I work in base 16, which is referred to hexadecimal. 4 bits = 1 hex digit.

So there are 16 hexadecimal digits: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F (A=10,… F=15).
2F = 2 * 16**1 + 15 * 16**0 = 32 + 15 = 47 base 10.

Base 200 would have 200 digits – representing the values 0 – 199.

I think Fred is hittin’ the sauce.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  Dutchman
August 4, 2016 6:32 pm

He said they counted using base 20. I think your hitting the sauce.

Maggie
Maggie
  Full Retard
August 5, 2016 8:09 am

No offense FR, but I THINK the implication is that there are MANY functioning systems in use today. Surely you remember the ditty boppers at tech school with all their recently discovered secret coding ability. When I was in AWACS, I could practically communicate in octal because Westinghouse had designed the computer to read, think and STORE data in octal form. It was incompatible with the onboard computer system, which is why a special interface was required, but you could literally delve into the stored data at thousands, perhaps millions of locations in the memory cards and put together a story about how energy is sent through engines, into a radar transmitter and pulsed out into space to find out where good guys and bad guys are located. All in Octal format.

Grog
Grog
  Dutchman
August 4, 2016 9:55 pm

My base is binary.
1. Male
2. Straight

GilbertS
GilbertS
August 4, 2016 5:34 pm

So what? The current crop of jerkoffs we get here aren’t those people. And they’re even less those people when you consider countless generations have passed since those people disappeared. Additionally, whatever bloodlines those creative ancients might have had are well-dilluted with other blood, such as Spaniards’. And even if their ancestors built some cool junk, they were also the idiots who destroyed their own environment and caused their own collapse. They’re no more the brilliant minds of back then than the Italians are the Romans who built an empire that straddled the entire known world. And the Greeks of today certainly aren’t the dudes who conquered much of the known world prior to the Romans. And the Egyptians today certainly aren’t the folks who built those neato pointy buildings. If anything, the Egyptians of today are more likely the asshats who burned down one of man’s greatest collections of knowledge in all history, because allah snackbar and stuff..

Fred, can you get back to covering our national/global collapse and your gonzo journalism in the 70s-80s and stop with the weekly book reports on people from south of the border?

Full Retard
Full Retard
  GilbertS
August 4, 2016 6:37 pm

And what can we infer from your world history capsule other than that the USA USA USA will also sink into the toilet of time?

Someday, folks will wonder how such primitive looking remnants of ‘Murica could have once dominated the known world.

GilbertS
GilbertS
  Full Retard
August 4, 2016 11:09 pm

Then, they’ll find lots of us in the ground preserved perfectly thanks to all the Lays and Utz chips and they’ll see us in all our glory. The worst will be those of us who spent so much on plastic surgery that all they leave behind will be a casket with a pair of rubber boobs, rubber ass, chin and pec implants, etc. Kids will marvel at the synthetic people we manufactured.

Maggie
Maggie
  Full Retard
August 5, 2016 8:12 am

It is true that the people of USA seem to think that the current organization of this planet is the final one… as if the country can’t just be cast aside like a Yugo.

javelin
javelin
August 4, 2016 5:54 pm

“Try to imagine how they did it” the author asked when wondering how the mayans made astral/astronomical calculations.
The answer is quite simple but takes the fun and mystery away. ………It was dark at night. For hundreds and hundreds of years, generation after generation, it was dark at night and staring and logging the movement of the stars was a cultural pastime (after all what else do ancient mayans without electricity do at night except make little mayans or gaze at the stars?)
After several generations, written observances and word of mouth passed down from the tribal stargazers–the projections and trajectories could be easily surmised by even the most average of humans.

Now the question of why humans, on every continent & who supposedly had no contact all universally decided to build some form of pyramids? That would be good conversation with a few intelligent friends, a bottle of good brandy and a few good cigars……..

GilbertS
GilbertS
  javelin
August 4, 2016 6:37 pm

I think the pyramids are easily explained-it’s easy to stack rocks on top of each other in a pyramid-type pile. My kids do it at the beach every year.

Grog
Grog
  GilbertS
August 4, 2016 10:01 pm

Gilbert,
I think that’s called a cairn.
So sorry for their loss.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  Grog
August 5, 2016 12:48 am

Thanks, Groggy, I looked it up and suddenly Stones for Ibarra made a lot more sense.

Diogenes
Diogenes
August 4, 2016 6:10 pm

Ok Fred after kissing police ass and mexican ass, bring on the muslim kiss ass next.

GilbertS
GilbertS
  Diogenes
August 4, 2016 6:39 pm

Hey, have I ever told you about how fascinating their music is? Sort of somewhere between an out-of-tune stringed instrument and a cat being skinned alive while a person just goes, wuuuuuh, wuuuhaaaa, waaaahaaaa, habbbaaabaaaahaaabAAAAAAAAA! It’s wayyyy better than that stupid Western music with its rhymes and harmony and beat.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  GilbertS
August 5, 2016 12:51 am
GilbertS
GilbertS
August 4, 2016 6:36 pm

I won’t deny that ancient cultures are fascinating. I think the best book on the subject is Guns, Germs, and Steel.
Also, you might find the alternative history, 1421: The Year China Discovered America, equally interesting. That’s a fascinating book, although it’s rather light on verifiable proof. His claims, among other things, the Chinese had direct contact with pre-Columbian South America and points to the presence of Asian fruits and veggies, Chinese laquer art, and chickens there before Europeans.

None of this helps us with our current problem-the invasion of the backwards-ass dirt-worshipping terd-world peasants from south of the border.

I’m fairly certain they know how to use the wheel, but they still don’t seem to know how to keep the body panels matching on their minivans. I think they know how to build stuff, since a lot of them work illegally in construction, but they can’t seem to figure out English. They have learned not to sacrifice virgins, but they can’t seem to stop raping them.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  GilbertS
August 4, 2016 6:40 pm

Faulty premise, Socrates. First there would have to be virgins in ‘Murica.

GilbertS
GilbertS
  Full Retard
August 4, 2016 6:52 pm

HA!

Grog
Grog
  Full Retard
August 4, 2016 10:05 pm

“terd-world” ????

Peaceout
Peaceout
August 4, 2016 7:22 pm

“Try to imagine how they did it”
One word. Aliens!

Tim
Tim
  Peaceout
August 4, 2016 8:41 pm

@ Peaceout:

I like the way you think.

“I’m not sayin’ it was aliens. But it was aliens.”

polecat
polecat
  Peaceout
August 4, 2016 10:26 pm

“Chariots of the Gods man! ………they practically owned all of South America”

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
August 4, 2016 8:16 pm

Popol Vuh and all that jazz.

Fred sounds like he is really enjoying his dotage, I admire that.

Stucky
Stucky
August 5, 2016 9:36 am

Did the Mayans conquer Europe?

Or, did the Europeans conquer the Mayans?

Mayans eat shit. Case closed. (And so does Maya Angelou.)

yahsure
yahsure
August 5, 2016 5:25 pm

Many of my coworkers are Hispanic.Where their family is from is a mystery.But born and raised here in the U.S. I find how they call themselves Mexicans to be funny. Once in awhile i will ask if they have a house in Mexico and commute each day.I have yet to meet any white folks that first tell you where their ancestors are from before adding American.I never bring it up unless asked.
Much of the answers to questions about pyramids is lost due to few records. Funny how people think they know it all and then are presented with new information that makes the old information wrong.Maybe we will get to visit our Southern countries if a new ice age appears.
I recently offended someone when i pointed out that Mexicans name their kids Angel or Jesus and they end up the opposite.Many such names are in our prison system.And how no White folks name their kids these names. I thought i was just being factual,At least from my experience. Yes, I am not very PC.

Full Retard
Full Retard
  yahsure
August 5, 2016 10:52 pm

OMG, yahsure, my SIL wanted to name his first-born ‘Angel’. WTF? My parents gave us good, serviceable names.

My mom never threw a birthday party for us and never put dainty gold jewelry on us, gold bracelets and gold necklaces.

She said the Mexican authorities intervened when a couple wanted to give their kid a white name like Britney or Brandy or some other cute shit. They told them to pick a common Mexican name. Unfortunately, even some of the new choices offend old Mexicans – they come up with Nahuatl names like Xochi and shit like that.

I was in Hondo-land and they had girls running around with names like Lissette. Then there are the truly horrible names in Cuba and Puerto Rico, things like Niurka and Bierka.

One of the things I found, and it was intriguing, a lot of names we assume are Spanish in origin are actually names carried over from the old Byzantine Empire, of course, they picked some of them up from the Jews – names like Joseph, John, Angel, Tabitha, Tamara… Weird.

Oh, and while we are on the subject of names, there for a while, the boss hired about 5 guys into the same shop, they were all named John.

Mac Tírë
Mac Tírë
August 5, 2016 10:08 pm

Who cares how smart they were/are? They are not us. Allowing in a large number of fast breeders of another race will mean our eventual death. Will it matter to our descendents what the IQ of the group that replaces them is?
We get it, Fred, you love ’em. You moved there. You married one. You’re a Cuck. Shame on J Quinn for posting Fred’s increasingly desperate brain farts (must be all the beans.)

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
  Administrator
August 6, 2016 3:22 am

I thought the trip to CO might have mellowed you out a bit admin!

Full Retard
Full Retard
  Mac Tírë
August 5, 2016 10:55 pm

Mac, do you suck dick?

Stubb
Stubb
  Full Retard
August 5, 2016 11:14 pm

Big Mac loves that special sauce, long walks in the rain and buys generic rubbers cause he’s a cheap fucker.