If California, or some other bastion of liberalism, manages to jump through all the hoops and secede from the U.S., what will happen to the money their citizens have paid into Social Security? Would they get their own money? What about CA’s MASSIVE gubmint debt?
Start with “What will they use for money and what will back it? and go from there.
And what will the tariffs on their products exported to the United States be?
And who will be paying all the welfare to their citizens (or subjects as it might be) that the United States is paying now?
Will their current State residents still be considered US citizens, dual citizens, or non citizens?
And on and on and on.
Keep in mind how well it worked out the last time some States decided to secede from the Union.
Secession talk is just that, sore losers talking and nothing else.
Being a native Californian, it is obvious the state is run by the public employee unions, all good Democrats who wish to keep the useful idiots poor on welfare and vote themselves lavish pension benefits.
CA has massive debt, that is only eclipsed by the unfunded pension liability of state and local governments. We also have about 35% of national welfare recipients, but on about 13% of the population. W/O Silicon Valley and Hollywood it would be even worse. Manufacturing was run out of the state years ago.
Why do I stay? I was born when is was a bastion of conservatively managed government and no public employee unions. I am hoping the useful idiots will finally realize what happened and vote the jerks out of office and we can make California Great Again!
Get out while you can. I used to work for California companies but lived in Minnesota, probably made 50 trips to L.A. and San Jose work related in semiconductor test equipment. Most of the younger people lived with their parents unless they were there before home prices skyrocketed. Last time I was in San Jose a condo was 400K and a night in a hotel was $200 (12 years ago est.). From what Michael Savage says the democrats control that state by whatever means necessary, in many locations no republicans are even on the ticket. California is a lost cause, a nice place to visit especially on the company buck, but I would NeVeR choose to live there, up to my eyeballs in debt. Was offered jobs in Ca. refused as it is better for a family not to be in massive debt, nor is it desirable to live in a state with massive debt, as all debts come due someday and someone has to pay one way or another its likely to be the people.
The answer to all those questions, and more, is this simple:
Hey Persnickety! RE “what will happen to the money their citizens have paid into Social Security? Would they get their own money?”
Yes, you are exactly correct. All that SS money? It’s gone! Who would pay back California’s SS money? No one. Or at least if it DID get paid back it would have to be from sticking current California workers with the tab. Just like the rest of the US will either not get paid, or will be paid by current workers. The technical term for this sort of financial arrangement is “Ponzi”.
To put it in more detail, I wouldn’t want to hold any California government bonds (state or local) now or for a while.
If I lived in California and expected significant SS payments – which is iffy for anyone in any state – I would think about moving to a non-seceding state.
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I have mixed feelings about a Kalifornia secession. In terms of the current politics, good riddance! Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum! But the land of the state is terrific, and 30-40% of the population is just fine. I would much rather see the state re-taken politically. Driving out illegals could be a major part of this.
Every single political organization in human history, whether principalities, nations, empires, monarchies or whatever form you can imagine have at some point failed and then vanished from the world stage.
This is not an opinion, it is a fact.
The same will hold true for the USA. How that end comes about is as yet, unwritten, but any talk of “it won’t happen” is based on ignorance, not reality.
California should free their slaves (their taxpayers) and form a Confederation with New England, Cuba, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, and Greece; call it The Union of Socialist Utopias. They should print their own currency and call it Confederate Money.
Your name for the currency sucks and it pisses me off. It is an insult to the Confederates of history. Free Money???
Also, if CA secedes, most of the country will agree so there won’t be a fight to retain the illegals, welfare toadies, and unions workers with their unfunded pensions. This would be a YUGE win for the USA if your group selection banded together to form their own country without borders.
They’d have one border, although it might only go one way.
The rest of the country could send our illegals to CA. California likes illegals so much, let ’em take all of them.
A split won’t happen for many reasons, but money flows do go both ways. Does anyone know if CA contributes more tax revenue to the Feds than the state gets back from the Feds?
They claim an outflow.
That’s what they claim, not everyone agrees with them since they have to ignore or re-categorize a lot of stuff to do it (like all that Federal defense and other Federal spending done there that is actually tax dollars from the rest of the country going to them).
Depends. Are Californians instantly non-US citizens upon secession? Or will they have to declare their loyalties? If they remain US citizens they will still have to pay taxes no matter where they work. The US is the only country that taxes citizens that work outside the US. So I’ll assume yes until then.
Countries that tax world-wide income from Citizens.
It also includes Libya, and North Korea; and possibly Eritrea and the Philippines.
The shithole parts of the state are the ones with all the secessionists. San Fran, LA, maybe Sacramento, & mostly along the coast. The people up north are ready to split from the state, the central valley is questionable. Look at the election by county map. Same deal with WA & OR, coastal “paradises” outnumber the rest of the state. Let them vote to go by county. The SS owed to those who actually paid in could, maybe, be paid back in a reduced lump sum… or not. Vote wisely, glasshoppa.
The state debt is all theirs. Doesn’t the word budget mean anything to CA politicians? Even if they dont leave why should anyone else be responsible for their irresponsible overspending? If I told all you fine & wonderful readers that my credit card balance was too high from buying all that crap on Amazon, would you help me pay it down? Didn’t think so.
Miles, are you the guy who bought the red dildo on Amazon?
Maybe… SHHHH. It’s an Xmas present for Mrs. Coyote.
“The people up north are ready to split from the state”…… Correct.
As a member of the state of Jefferson I can attest to this statement. The shitholes in this state run everything. Those that live in these shitholes occasionally venture out to view the barbarians that live in the rest of the state, but never dally long.
Day Two: Some horrible people kinetically disrupt the roads, and water and power lines, leading into major California cities on a massive scale, and the 90% of the State that is not insane secedes from the insane (mainly coastal) areas of California.
Day Three: Insane-ifornia organizes protest marches and sit-ins, to solve the no-water, no-power, and no-food problems their insanity caused.
Day 28: Sane-ifornia begins the disposal of the 20+ million urban dead in what was Insane-ifornia. Most will likely be found trying to get their EBT cards to work at an empty Walmart.
As my people once made an unsuccessful effort to secede from the Union and paid for their impertinence with rather serious human and property damages, allow me to lecture kooky Californians on exactly what to expect should they be foolish enough to actually try to leave the USA. First, no state can leave the Union. This fact was never established by law or the Constitution. It was shown to be the case rather conclusively at Antiedam, Gettysburg, Cold Harbor, Shiloh, etc. While it was not treason for Southerners to try to secede in 1861 (there was no legal or settled opinion on the issue at that time, and most scholars leaned to the secession is a right point of view), after the Confederacy was defeated the principle was fairly well established.
If California tries to leave the Union, alone or with accomplices, the state will be put under martial law, the state government will be dissolved and replaced with a Federal administration, the ringleaders will be executed for treason or sentenced to long prison terms, the idiots who have collaborated with this crackpot idea will be arrested and will be stripped of every last cent, and anybody crazy enough to resist with violence will be shot down in the street. All illegal aliens in the state will be expelled without ceremony. There, California, is your plan to secede. Enjoy.
Southern Sage, you are mostly correct, with one exception — Texas. The treaty by which the United States annexed Texas granted Texas the right to leave the union on its own in perpetuity.
Most discussions of possible secession include Texas, because of this and other reasons.
Texas would end up being a part of Mexico, California probably would too if China didn’t take them first.
When would the wall be built? Before or after the wall with Mexico? Who would pay for it? Maybe there’d be a better idea for keeping the illegals out of the US?
Cut off the free money, housing, healthcare, better and more effective than a wall, walls are nice too.
I swear you guys would drown in a teacup. Just legalize them: problem solved.
EC- That’s dixie cup. “Drown in a dixie cup”, (much smaller cup)
Build a wall between the US and Kalifornia and make Mexico pay for it. Then a wall between the US and Kanada. Make Mexico pay for that one, too.
EC – Round ’em up like sheep and herd ’em back across the border. Problem solved.
Folks here are too emotionally involved with the issue to find a solution that works.
I was reminded of a case study where the board of directors hired a guy on the condition that he get rid of a huge receivables balance, he would collect several hundred thousands upon elimination of the problem. He wrote off the whole thing. Problem solved – he collected his bonus.
The options are:
a. deport them all
b. legalize them all
c. arrest a few and deport them, hoping some more will self-deport
d. build a wall, deport a few and legalize the rest
e. do nothing, let lynch mobs take care of the problem
f. wait another four years when they will vote for Chelsea Clinton
g. Build a wall, deport a lot of them (the worst of them, like 1/3, criminals and the ones with tattoos), conditionally regularize most of the rest with NO U.S. citizenship, deport anyone who votes illegally, and anyone who sneaks back in after deportation gets at least 5 years in prison. And they all have to change their name to Todd. Even the women.
Iska, did you know that lying to an immigration officer about your status, immigration intentions or voting illegally already carries a no papers/no legal entry penalty?
Sneaking back in after deportation carries a 10 ban before your allowed to apply for entry.
Being here illegally can also get you jail time with ICE. Then you get deported, unless you have a lawyer; he can submit a stay of deportation and other tricks but it costs money.
They already punish shit under the moral turpitude clause, it covers all kinds of criminal activity and in some cases simply an accusation will do. For example, a young girl told her schoolmate that her green-card uncle (a legal resident) had spanked her butt playfully. The friend told a teacher, the principal called ICE and he was deported.
The whole immigration apparatus is as frustrating as having to go to the DMV on a regular basis. It’s a happy day when you get the papers, though.
My wife found a passport in the women’s bathroom at the Flamingo. We were waiting in line to see the X show. I said, give it to the security there. An Indian national walked up looking quite distressed, the security pointed to us after he gave him the passport. (Passport instructions say you must have it on you at all times). He came over and thanked us. He came back later with a very distraught young girl. He apparently forced her to go thank my wife in person. My wife didn’t wait for her to say a thing, she gave her a hug.
I kinda modified the golden rule for myself – treat people as you would have them treat your kids. My rotten kids owe me big time. Fuckers.