Guest Post by Scott Adams
Comedian Kathy Griffin got into some hot water for a staged photo of herself holding a realistic-looking severed head that looks like President Trump. I won’t reproduce the photo here. It is disturbing. People asked me what it all means in terms of persuasion, if anything. I’ll tell you.
Disclosure: Kathy Griffin played the voice of the Alice in my old Dilbert TV show on UPN. I like Kathy, both personally and professionally. I’m a fan. Feel free to factor in my bias when you read this post.
The fascinating part of the story is that Griffin and at least one photographer thought this photo would be provocative but within bounds. The Internet quickly informed them they were wrong. Griffin issued a video apology that some people judge to be insincere. But it looked 100% sincere to me.
I have been telling you since before the inauguration that the country was going to split into two movies on one screen. Some of us are watching a new president do his best to make America great. But half the country is watching a disaster movie in which we unknowingly elected a Hitler-monster to destroy civilization. The Kathy Griffin situation illustrates the two-movie idea perfectly. For Kathy and her associates at the photoshoot, this photo was intentionally provocative, but in a silly way. In their movie, beheading the Hitler-monster is a widely-approved fantasy. Perfectly acceptable. Nothing to see here.
Then they published the photo.
And learned there was another movie on the same screen.
You and I get to live in the movies in our heads until your script and mine come into conflict. That’s what happened with the Griffin photo. The photo showed us with disturbing clarity that we are not experiencing the same movie. In some of our movies, Griffin literally took the side of ISIS (EviLosers) against the Commander in Chief of the United States. But in Kathy’s movie, a comedian made a provocative joke, as she often does. That’s all.
Obviously I support Griffin’s right to produce provocative and sometimes offensive art. That is part of her job. And I also respect her rapid and thorough apology. To feel otherwise about Kathy would make me one of the overly-sensitive folks I have been mocking for years. You don’t get to turn me into that person. But you can go full-snowflake on this topic if you like.
The takeaway here should not be so much about Griffin. The takeaway is that a room full of people involved in the photoshoot did not see this as a huge problem from the start. They were living a different movie. If you judge this situation to be an error of taste, judgement, intelligence, or morality, you are missing the bigger picture. The bigger picture is that the country is living two movies at the same time, and Griffin was acting “normal” in one of them.
Persuasion-wise, Griffin’s photo was so over-the-line that I assume it ruined the movie for a lot of people following the anti-Trump script. The audience in Griffin’s movie just had a mirror held up to them. If they liked what they saw, they will stay in their seats. If they don’t like being the villains in their own movie, they might change the channel.
History might record this as the beginning of Trump’s rise in popularity. I have been predicting you will see the rise in the polls by year end.
Do you consider Kathy Griffin’s disturbing photo to be “art”? That’s a purely subjective evaluation. But Griffin did turn most Trump supporters into hypocrites by making them complain about political correctness.
If that isn’t art, you don’t know art.
I do not know art……gladly
“Griffin issued a video apology that some people judge to be insincere. But it looked 100% sincere to me.”
People get real “sincere” when their livelihoods are on the line.
“But Griffin did turn most Trump supporters into hypocrites by making them complain about political correctness.”
Are you fucking kidding me, Adams? That stunt by the cunt was way over the line, pure and simple, and everyone who detests it (Trump supporters and non-supporters) are not waving a political correctness flag.
See? I’ve been telling y’all that Scott is a fucking libtard mongoloid. How anyone ever thought for a minute that he had anything to say that wasn’t at least 70% bullshit is more than I can understand.
Here is how a 100 percent sincere apology would begin: “I apologize to President Trump and his family.” Those words were found nowhere in her apology. A sincere apology is directed to those you have hurt the most. All Griffin did was talk about crossing a line. For that, I’m calling bullshit on Adams. I’ve posted his columns, but this one is no Straight Line Logic for you.
Ya. If I was really going to sum up Adam’s weak attempt at writing it would be this:
There are two Americas. One side despises the other.
The part he left out was the conclusion:
“…if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.”
End of article.
We love Kathy Griffin, she is wonderful. Freedom of speech, remember that concept. Who cares what is said about someone that has said, “I could shoot someone on the street and my supporters would still support me”.
Fake comedians who are actually Killary political agents!
That is not art. It is garbage from two sick minds and now you have proven to be as classless as those two idiots. She is not an artist or a comedian. You have a right to believe as you do and you also have right to kiss my backside.
This isn’t one screen split into two parts, it is two separate buildings miles apart and a small minority will find this acceptable. It is not like any art most care to see. Scott Adams, I think you just moved down a few notches.
If the actual purpose of Griffin was to get publicity, mission accomplished, but I doubt she expected the backlash from the left.
Who does it better?
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Yeah Kathy!!
CNN advertisers to boycott until they fire Griffin:
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Fired
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Fake comedian Colbert should be axed too!
Colbert is a friend of Pedogate John Podesta. Podesta raised money for Colbert’s wife to run for office in Virginia. Then, Colbert gets on his show and denounces Pizzagate / Pedogate, without a word of how he took money from Podesta and the inherent conflict of interest that produces:
youtube.com/watch?v=tfXWXNItF_Y
great connection James…Podesta and Colbert just
love each other SO much.
If that is art then anything goes.
How about a photo of me dropping a turd in Griffin’s mouth.
Only one???
fling a bunch from across the room…some will stick
on the wall. and you can classify it as “performance
art”…maybe get funded to take it on tour?
Adams is the ultimate one trick pony, you’re watching this movie, I’m watching that. Who gives a fuck?!?! This bitch needs to be thrown in jail for this stunt regardless of how her dumbass brain works. Scott Adams, learn how to write, it’s not a damn comic strip!
I only judge people by their actions first, the company they keep second, and what comes out of their mouth third.
If Scott takes the action of defending his friend by saying he likes her and her work and calls that art, then that’s all I need to know about him.
Griffins alleged comedy routines are vile and this is depraved. The late Father Malachi Martin might even describe her as “Perfectly Possessed”.
Gene Gene build a machine,
Joe Joe made it go,
Art Art laid a fart and blew the whole machine apart.
Before being radicalized by ISIS:
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Does that classify as pussy grabbing?
That was a few years back when Trump was a democrat, I think Griffin was at his wedding.
Dawg, not to defend Adolf but I doubt you could draw the above pictures. It was a different time and street scenes, castles/buildings and still lifes were the order of the day.
Bee Leever: What the fuck does my drawing ability have to do with anything?
I can’t rap, either. So I am not permitted to render an opinion as to whether it sucks, too (it does)?
Dawg- I look at the detail in the drawings old Adolf produced and think how much time and effort it must have taken, the balance and the perspective is admirable. He was no master painter but there is talent there and it is unfair to say it sucks. Try to produce a painting with that level of detail, then get back to us with a sample, you may rethink your attitude about Hitler’s ability.
It is your right to pronounce it bad art, I don’t agree and that has nothing to do with endorsing Hitler or any cause he may have had.
Okay I will concede that from a technical point of view, the pictures are well done. He reproduces the subjects nicely.
But in my mind, that doesn’t make good art. To me, good art should hit you in your soul, stir your spirit.
Those pictures do nothing of the sort. They remind me of pictures some tourist would take: Oh look, a castle! *Click*
I actually agree with Yo’bo when he says art should be uplifting. I don’t get that from Der Führer’s work.
Rdawg, there’s also the possibility that these drawings (or paintings as the case may be) weren’t done by Adolf at all. Fan clubs like the one for Adolf or the one for Massa Abe Lincoln have been known to attribute all sorts of stuff to the dead scoundrels as a way of justifying their hero worship.
She should be given exactly the same treatment that a white redneck male would get if he had done that to Obama or Hillary.
Hmmm, Guantanamo, Abu Grabe type treatment, IRS audits, FBI harassment, probably arkancided.
It’s time to divide our country up, we are not 1 people anymore. Otherwise, very bloody war is coming. And probably soon.
If you want to see some UGGGLY high school photos, look up Kathy Griffin’s. Beyond homely joo girl.
“But Griffin did turn most Trump supporters into hypocrites by making them complain about political correctness.
If that isn’t art, you don’t know art.”
Comments:
1. While this may be typical of leftist “art”, where every degeneracy imaginable is embraced, this is something different. This is a vicious display of hatred.
2. Complaining about political correctness? Trump supporters are hypocrites for voicing their revulsion to this? And Griffin is to be applauded for the “art” in showing Trump supporters to be hypocrites? News flash, this ain’t political correctness, this is disgust.
Scott Adams shit on his plate today.
I would like to blow Mr. Adams postulating out of the water by suggesting that every one in that photo shoot knew they crossed the line and were preparing the apology as the picture was taken. Maybe the only thing they were not counting on was the negative liberal responses; although after calling Ms. Coulter every ugly name in the book, they thought they could get away with it.
Did you say you would like to blow Mr. Adams while he was postulating out of the water? I know. I know…don’t be mean rugger. Ya might want to work on your syntax… Not Sure…just sayin. As for myself, I have no desire to blow Dilbert (in or out of the water…postulating or not). However, I might be interested in raining blows down on him for posting such drivel.
Thank you all. You’ve been a great audience. Be sure to tip your waiter. Goodnight.
We should accept her apology, even though she admitted it was due to the negative reaction, not due to actually thinking it was a bad thing to do, only to the extent the left would have accepted an apology if the shoe were on the other foot.
Maybe you’re right, David. Lets wait and see if she apologizes. She hasn’t done anything of the kind yet.
“The bigger picture is that the country is living two movies at the same time, and Griffin was acting “normal” in one of them.”
Yes, we know. Marina Abramovic is an artist, Kathy griffin is funny, the Podesta’s pedophilia/cannibal slanted taste in art is transgressive, blah, blah, blah.
Two movies.
I enjoy Fantasia and you guys prefer Hostel IV but they are both equal, right?
The whole moral equivalence angle is a worn out trope ready for the dustbin of history.
These are tasteless, degenerate, ugly people with a deep seated hatred for all that is pure, good, traditional and wholesome.
“These are tasteless, degenerate, ugly people with a deep seated hatred for all that is pure, good, traditional and wholesome.”
Agree with every word. But, this thread is full of the exact same hypocrisy we accuse the left of and the hatred of the left is clouding judgement right and left. EVERYONE poses the question: “What if some right-winger had posted similar photo with an Obama head?” A valid question, but we’ve got to play it all the way out? What if? Would we have been outraged around here? Would we have called for the the dude to be immediately jailed, without due process, by whom? Homeland Security? Under the Patriot Act?
And then we have the gall to point out all the hypocrisy on the left????
The picture is disgusting on a lot of levels and in my mind doesn’t fit into even the broadest (and I like to use the broadest) definition of art. I have always despised Kathy Griffin and never once found her the slightest but funny.
BUT, there is no fucking crime here and I do not want to live in a nation where there is one. We all love free speech around here right? Well everyone put on your big boy pants, cause this is fucking it!
It used to be a crime here and I remember it being a better place to live and have a family. Once upon a time there were Defamation of character laws, slander and libel laws and just plain old natural laws of decency.
Has anybody ever presented a legitimate argument that this was what was intended as the first amendment?
That’s civil law, not criminal law. I don’t have any love for our civil law system either, but it is an entirely different argument. Could (should) Trump be able to sue her for damages (if he were a private citizen)? Sure. But that is VERY different from having some copfuks grab her and toss her in the hole without due process (and with any real due process in this case, there is NO crime)–which is EXACTLY what many people are calling for here. I am raging against hypocrisy wherever I find it–and yes, I look at my own with a most critical eye.
And yes, it goes against the natural laws of decency, but I NEVER want the government to enforce those.
The law against making threats against a president are still in effect, aren’t they? This isn’t burning an effigy of a person, it’s stating a desire to actually murder someone.
I think that the only reason the Secret Service hasn’t gone after her is that Trump isn’t allowing them to.
I can’t speak about the intentions of men I never met who lived hundreds of years ago, but I think this EXACTLY the purpose of the First Amendment. I’m paraphrasing someone, but the idea is “I despise everything you are saying, but I will defend your right to say it to the death.”
Rage against the pic, call immoral, ugly, idiotic, repugnant, etc–it is all those things. Better yet, ignore the fuck out of it and thereby banish the talentless twat back to the obscurity from which she should never have emerged. But don’t call for Griffin’s arrest on one thread and then turn around and tell me how much you hate government overreach on the next.
FWIW, I find nothing in any of your posts that I disagree with. Can’t understand why there are any down votes for your argument.
Because it is a genuine argument and people just don’t recognize them anymore. Everyone is lost in a sea of rhetoric.
Down voters please provide a solid logical argument for why I am wrong.
Drud, there’s nothing wrong with rhetoric. Rhetoric isn’t a dirty word. rhetoric is the effective use of language to illustrate a point. I downvoted you because you’re missing the point, not because I think you’re wrong.
Your position is that the photo is just an exercise of free political speech. My position is that it’s no such thing, it’s an expression of a desire to murder another human being. That makes it a threat, in my view.
The 1st amendment states that there is an inalienable human right to speak out against the government. That means that you have the right to say that the president is a mongoloid or has failed to give a shit about your pet concern or has a tiny dick.
It doesn’t follow that, because of your dislike for him you have the right to threaten his life by expressing a desire to hold his severed head in your hand.
I simply disagree. There can only be read into it the vaguest, implied desire to cause physical harm. This is VERY different from calling the Whitehouse and saying you’ve planted a bomb or you are looking through a sniper scope. And still nobody has answered my question about if it were a right-winger with an Obama head…would there be OUTRAGE and calls for immediate arrest on TBP?
I don’t want an answer, I just want people around here to ask themselves the question.
And I never said there was anything “wrong” with rhetoric…it just has no place in a logical argument. The two must be kept separate and yet they seldom are.
I didn’t call for her arrest. I said it used to be a crime here and it was a better place for it. The government does indeed enforce civil law and it is not government overreach if the population demands that they enforce or enact and enforce a law.
Currently the COPFUCKS are indeed grabbing people and throwing them in the hole without due process and I don’t mean Islamic terror suspects. Ask Maggie about her experience in Missouri.
I also said, has anybody made a legitimate argument that that was the intention of the first amendment. No one has made any real argument that I’m aware of or it would have been in the news.
“I also said, has anybody made a legitimate argument that that was the intention of the first amendment.”
This is a logically null statement. We can’t speak to intention of others–so no legitimate (logical) argument can be made. This is exactly why ignorance of the law is not an excuse–because it can never be disproved.
I know you didn’t call for her arrest but others did. My first post was not addressed to you, but to the forum in general. My subsequent posts were in response to your response.
And the government can’t (or at least should not be able to) enact or enforce a law that is un-Constitutional even if every single citizen in the country demands it.
This brings up another major point that people, even around here, just don’t get. The Bill of Rights does not give us any rights. We ALREADY have them–they are inalienable. The Bill of Rights simply forbids the government from taking them away from us.
Totalitarianism in any form is anathema. Nailed it on the Bill of Rights!
That is not what I’m saying. Where is the body of work that went into the 1st amendment being being brought forth and debated anywhere in the same manner as other amendments. The intentions of those people were indeed written and debated heatedly.
I apologize for the mixup on who you were referring to.
The government can and does enforce laws that go against the Bill of rights with or without support of the people. Sometimes By shady constitutional amendments sometimes by just outright lawlessness. Sometimes Vigilance committees do it. Witches were burned without anymore due process than dipping in the well. If she died she was a witch.
The bill of rights and any amendments to it are pure propaganda. The only rights we have are those we can take by force or persuasion. Look back a decade at a time and see who had what rights and for how long.
There is no such thing as the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that’s also propaganda. We have the right to Serve and Worship God period and accept whatever he sends me as a blessing even if i don’t think so. That is true liberty that cannot be taken, only surrendered. If I’m to be tortured I’ll whine and snivel but still accept it as my lot. If I’m to go to prison I’ll whine and snivel but to prison I will go. Kathy will find that out in due time and I call her vile but I don’t hate her or wish her Hell. If I choose otherwise I will be violating the only right I have been given by god. That comes with a penalty worse than she will get if she doesn’t repent because I know I don’t have the right to hate her.
Good stuff here, Fleabaggs. Every debate is ultimately an exercise in semantics–I believe is was Schopenhauer who said something to this effect . Right is a word that gets tossed around constantly and gets analyzed almost never. So, let’s examine it. A hermit living alone in the woods, who has zero contact with other human beings has what rights? The right to his thoughts, certainly the right to free speech (but it is of course much like the the theoretical tree falling in the forest, isn’t it), the right to do whatever he wants with his body and the land that no one else ever visits. The point is, and I think you made it quiet well, is that there is a societal component to rights. Without question there is…and so from a practical standpoint it is reasonable to say, as you did, that “the only rights we have are those that we can by force or persuasion.” Ok. I’ll accept that premise to a point, but it is still are long way to “The bill of rights and any amendments to it are pure propaganda.” No, Constitution is a shared IDEA. It is made manifest by having enough free individuals believe strongly in it. This is exactly what happened and for quite a while. Of course, slowly and surely, those who would rule have eroded the idea of limiting the role of the government and have subverted the constitution and the citizenry. The end result of this, of course, is the constitution becomes mere words on paper. One the IDEA is dead in the vast majority of the brain-dead, group-thinking masses…well, you may as well use it for TP. That is is last remaining use.
The truly great thing, is that the idea of liberty never really dies. It survived the fall of the Roman Empire, it survived the Dark Ages, it survived the two World Wars and it will survive the death of the American Empire as well–provide that the Human Race does.
Does it not qualify as a threat of assassination made against a sitting President, or incitement to the same? How can it not?
Yes, I have a sense of humor. I also remember CNN showing a graphic of cross-hairs over George Bush’s face. I didn’t find that humorous either.
What we have lost is any sense of civil discourse. The culture grows coarser by the day, and Ms. Griffin thought it the trendy thing to do to move it an inch farther along (after all, it has worked for so many other entertainers). I suspect she was truly shocked that all her progressive allies didn’t swoon over her antics.
How a culture can be pulled back from such degeneracy and incivility I don’t know. From Evergreen State to Anthony Weiner to the US Congress to the immoral wars to the theft of our money – maybe Kathy Griffin is a perfect example of what half of us have become. Thank goodness I am a deplorable.
Great post, Gayle.
“How a culture can be pulled back from such degeneracy and incivility I don’t know. ”
I’m pretty sure I do, it’s just not a pretty answer: we have to suffer. We have to suffer enough on an individual and a societal level that we once more realize the fundamental truths: individual liberty is the best way to form a society, period. Helping others of our own free will is the best way to get through this life.
By God it’s a long way back.
Fuck you and your suffering, Drud. I refuse to “suffer” the atrocities of the leftists.
America is on the edge of a civil war. YOUR individual liberty is now at stake, but you are willing to suffer? Grow a backbone.
DUD- Are you talking shit again? People are edgy…….you’re gonna pull back a nub, (that’s what they say down south).
Suffering is overrated.
Rise up.
I wish we could get out of the suffering that is coming but if I wish in one hand and crap in the other which one will fill up faster. It won’t matter what triggers whats coming but we are going to suffer big time. Kathy is just a smattering of the Evil that will be unleashed when things go south.
You can refuse to acknowledge suffering is in our path, you can also debate whether it’s a necessary thing to lift us from our current cultural malaise, but you can’t refuse to suffer. Well, shit you can even try that but you might as well refuse the sun coming up in east. Suffering is a part of living. Hardship is how anything grows strong. Is it too far a leap to suggest that our lack of any real hardship over the past several decades is what has allowed our culture to become so weak, so far decayed?
I wonder more and more how many generations it will take to undo the mess we are in. And you are right, it will be generations of suffering.
“These are tasteless, degenerate, ugly people with a deep seated hatred for all that is pure, good, traditional and wholesome.”
Many fine comments from the various articles that TBP has devoted to Ms. Griffin. While I have nothing to really add that hasn’t aready been said, the quote above caught my attention and summed up how I feel about these people. Spot on analysis and couldn’t agree more. The fact there are so many of this ilk, and others like Mr. Adams who support them, makes me ponder whether I was born a few decades too late. Maybe even a few centuries!
+100
agreed
Famous last words: Daffy Griffin ” For my final act”
I used to have a collection of Dilbert books.
Gone.
Not art.
Movie shmovie! Anyone who ” personally and professionally ” likes this bitch and her comedy is a doofus.
The Oligarchs are whipping the Useful Idiots up for their “Brown Shirts” Summer of Rage protests on 2July. I think they need some group Sensitivity Training…
Can we trade in this bullshitter’s articles for someone with real substance? Andrew Bacevich? Glenn Greenwald? Gary North?
I don’t know if this shit or The Piss Christ qualifies as art and I don’t give a fuck to ponder it. It’s not why I read TBP.
Hypocrites? Hypocrites because they’re embracing political correctness? No Scott, no one is complaining because this video (not picture, as you described) is not politically correct. They are outraged that a so-called comedian used an ISIS inspired terrorist action & put it out for all to see expecting kudos for what a great performance artist she is. What she actually did was normalize barbarism. Do you call ISIS photos & videos of terrorists holding severed heads art? Why don’t you call them performance artists too? What next, film a 50 year old man raping a 2 year old looking doll/mannequin but calling it ‘performance art’ makes it okay? Where do you draw the line? You, specifically?
Now that I know Adams is really weasel workmate Wally the loser who does not like confrontation I won’t read Dilbert any longer. Adams lost some fans. And the loser claiming TBPers are ‘like” the bigots? Wiping my ass on your face.
The bitch has a right to produce any kind of depraved art she likes. That means she is entitled to whatever blow back comes her way. She is a left wing cunt who will use violence against us if the opportunity arises. We had better be ready.
This is not “art”. It is a crude political statement by a nihilistic, degenerate attention whore.
That this is even considered to be “art” is indicative of how far into the abyss civilisation has fallen.
Kathy Griffin is not a comedian, she is a #collaborator.
Agree with Overthecliff.
It doesn’t take much of a stretch of the imagination to envision a time when Griffin and others like her, if come to absolute power, will be demanding people like us submit or face the camps. They’ve taken the first baby steps down that road.
I always like to reverse the argument….. what if someone… a conservative entertainer had done this exact same stunt (“Yes, it was a stunt… not an artistic impression… please she is as self-serving a person as I have ever seen….she kicked her husband to the curb right after her “first” reality tv series)….. but now, it was Barack Hussein’s severed head within the first 6 months of his presidency. The press and the progressives would have been calling for blood. It would have been labelled hate speech…. the FBI would have arrested the entertainer. She crossed a line “knowingly” that goes beyond disrespectful… it wasn’t to make us think… but rather to glorify herself. Her opinions don’t matter in the least…. please… her last gig was commenting on who was wearing what on the red carpet.
We, though, don’t live a world where anything is fair or equal…. She felt justified….just like all the other “artists” felt justified in saying that would leave the U.S. for Canada or places unknown if Trump was elected…. amazingly they all stayed so they could continue to badger us.
A Scott Adams quote:
(from another of his writings)
“If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask?”
My Reply: Ummm, one like this? :
“Do you consider Kathy Griffin’s disturbing photo to be “art”?”