WIP asked me to do a QOTD regarding the identification of the Mark of the Beast. Consider it asked.
I could give my answer immediately. But, I won’t. Because, as in math, HOW I got there is just as important as the answer.
Please give your answer first, before reading my stuff below. I don’t want to influence your answer. Then read the post. I’d be curious as to whether or not your answer changed. You could say, “I thought it was “A”, but now I think it’s “B”. Or, “I thought it was “A”, and I’m sticking with it because you are full of shit.” (The most likely response from my arch nemesis Ditchner, AWB, and ilk. Ignore these people.) I’ll wait ….
“The second beast was empowered to give life to the image of the first beast so that it could speak, and could cause all those who did not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He also caused everyone (small and great, rich and poor, free and slave) to obtain a mark on their right hand or on their forehead. Thus no one was allowed to buy or sell things unless he bore the mark of the beast—that is, his name or his number. This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast’s number, for it is man’s number, and his number is 666.”
——- Revelation 13:15-18 (New English Translation)
OK then, I’ll look at three key questions and the three corresponding principles, which lead to my conclusion identifying the Beast and his mark.
Key Question #1: To whom directly was Rev 13 written?
The answer is in Rev 1:4; — “To the seven churches in the province of Asia.”. It wasn’t written to Americans living in the year 2017. It was written to a specific group of seven Christian churches around 90AD in what is now modern day Turkey.
This means that the messages given directly to them do not necessarily apply directly to us today. It just can’t! For example, the church in Thyatira is condemned because they — “ … tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and by her teaching deceives my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols”. — That’s a very specific named person of that very specific time period, which has zero counterpart to the American church today.
Don’t misunderstand me. Just because a book wasn’t written directly to us, does not mean there is no benefit to reading it. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have to bother reading any of the books in the Bible, for NONE of them were written directly to us. We read Scripture because the principles that appear therein most certainly do apply to us. Principles matter.
So then, although there is in America no prophetess named Jezebel teaching sexual immorality (well, maybe Hillary), the principle of remaining sexually pure certainly applies. Of course, to the church in Thyatira much more than just principle was at sake … they were under God’s direct command.
Now, the concept of principles works out great in many situations. Unfortunately, prophecy isn’t one of them, especially apocalyptic prophecy. What principle can possibly be applied to the pale green horse, ridden by Death, who annihilates 25% of the world’s population? This is none. Yet … it must MEAN something!
Yes, it did mean something …. to the people to whom Revelation was written directly. THEY understood the full meaning of Revelation because it applied to them directly. John was specifically writing to a real people (not us), living in a real time and place (not ours), with a really urgent message (not just principles) that the whole church MUST have understood in its entirety.
Otherwise, why write the letter at all, if it was all encoded with nearly unsolvable riddles and mysteries, correctly understood by only a few … and even then, only thousands of years later? To what benefit would that have been to the seven churches? None.
Now, some people believe that many prophecies, especially apocalyptic, have a dual nature; 1) an immediate fulfillment (to the people living at the time the prophecy is made) and, 2) a future fulfillment, whose time is only known by God.
—For example, when Isaiah prophesizes to King Ahab that as a sign of God’s judgement a virgin will give birth, it was fulfilled in the short term when in actuality “the prophetess conceived”, and also in the future, 800 years later, when Mary conceived.
— Another example from prophecy; Daniel’s fourth beast “with large iron teeth and ten horns”, … about a thousand years later becomes Babylon in Revelation which is thought to be the Roman Empire, … which two thousand years later becomes the NWO, NATO, or whatever else seems fanciful.
Then, when the future fulfillment arrives (such as Mary’s conception) Christians will shout Halleluiahs and proclaim that fulfilled prophecy is proof of the inerrancy of Scripture.
There’s just one huge problem with that. The entire belief structure built around short/long term fulfillment (and its unusual bedfellows; secondary fulfillment, partial fulfillment, spanned fulfillment) is ALL a theological product of the last 150 years! You would think that just once, somewhere, that when a prophecy was given that had two fulfillment dates, that God would have told us that. Fact of the matter is that nowhere in the seventh chapter of Isaiah does the text indicate a second fulfillment, or even the slightest hint of one. All of these bizarre and esoteric ways or “rules” of interpreting prophecy were developed by men-with-an-agenda to solve theological problems, to shore up a particular related doctrine, or even to titillate the sheep … or scare the shit out of them.
You can get a massive migraine trying to understand it all, if even possible, and that’s a shame, because I can’t imagine that such complexity and confusion is what the original Bible authors had in mind. There has to be a better way. There IS a better way! It is Bedrock Principle #1 below.
Bedrock Principle #1: Determine the meaning of a Scripture as AS THE PEOPLE LIVING AT THAT TIME WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT.
———————————— –
Key Question #2: In what style is Revelation written, and why?
Revelation is Apocalyptic. The genre was popular in Jewish literature from the Diaspora (8th century BC) to when Revelation was written (90AD). “Apocalypse” in Greek means “revelation” — certain things are unveiled. It is not necessarily about the end of the world, — more often than not it is the unveiling about an end of an era, and a new one is about to begin.
The most important aspect of Apocalypse (for purposes of this article) is its heavy use of coded symbolic language. Why use code? Because the author was writing to Christians, who were under persecution by Rome. Revelation was written after the Romans utterly destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. John was a Jewish-Christian who still loved his fellow Jews, and his hatred for the Romans (Babylon) should be openly visible to most readers. He wanted their total and utter destruction. John was trying to encourage the followers of Jesus at a time when their entire world seemed doomed. But, how could he do it?
To speak and write openly about such things would have ensured his death, and many others. So, John wrote in code. Not a secret goofy nearly impossible to decipher Bible Code. He wrote in a code that Christians of the day would have immediately understood. They would not have had to ponder and wonder and try to figure out the meaning of ‘666’. They knew!
Again, as mentioned above, if they wouldn’t have known, why would John have written it to them in the first place? Just for fun? Or for people two thousand years later? The beauty of the code is that THEY knew …. but, the Romans did not! They operated from a totally different framework. and a different level of spiritual understanding.
In other words, the code enabled John to hide in plain sight.
Bedrock Principle #2: The mark is only a symbol of something. It is not an actual thing.
———————————— –
Key Question #3: How does one determine True Worship?
Jesus answers the question in response to the Samaritan woman at the well; —- “Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
It’s not about singing songs, or going to church on Sundays and prayer meetings on Wednesdays, or any myriad of other outward signs. In fact Jesus had a lot of contempt for those who specialized in outward external signs of worship. He tells us to ”beware of the experts in the law” who like to “walk around in long robes” and how they love “elaborate greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues” and he closes his long diatribe of such worshippers in Matthew 23 by calling them “snakes and the children of snakes” who won’t escape going to hell.
Jesus seeks worshippers in Spirit and in truth. It’s an internal thing. Whatever “in Spirit and truth” means, how can it possibly refer to tattoo or mark of some sort? That is purely an external thing—a matter of skin, not of heart. It is the very thing God loathes, and it makes no sense that such a thing now suddenly becomes an indicator of true worship.
Does the arm tattoo of your wife’s name framed in a heart mean you love her? No, it’s just a mark. Does saying “I love you, honey!” mean you love her? No, it’s just words. On the other hand, I truly cannot recall either of my parents ever telling each other “I love you.”. But, when I arrived at the hospital bed after mom fell down the stairs, and I saw my dad’s head in his hands, and crying … I knew he did. When dad plowed through a fence, a yard, and some trees and he was unconscious in the hospital bed, and mom was holding his hand, and doing her best to suppress a gusher of tears … I knew. Their love is deep deep in their heart, just as true worship is.
Besides all that, the idea of tattooing everyone makes no sense. John states that pretty much the whole world will follow the Antichrist/Beast combo-pack, and just a remnant of true believers remain. Why in the world tattoo 7 Billion … when all you really would need to do is tattoo a few thousand? (Doesn’t the picture at the beginning of this article look just ridiculous.)
Bedrock Principle #3: You can’t determine a True Worshipper from a mark
————————————- –
————————————- –
OK, with the bedrock principles established, let’s see if we can whittle it all down to some actual identification.
1)- The refusal to worship the beast will bring serious economic consequences for — “No one could buy or sell unless he had the mark”. No one the world over is exempt from this harsh economic repression; small, great, rich, poor, free, or slave. Governments and religious authorities love to shut out undesirables, those whom it cannot control, via economic control.
This brings me to another Bedrock Principle. Whatever John is talking about, that thing must have been achievable at the time it was written. So, when John talks about a ‘mark’, whereby everyone must have it in order to eat and survive … then that prophecy MUST have been achievable in AD90. Once again I must pose the question; why would John write to those seven churches about a certain thing – if that thing wasn’t even possible when he wrote it? The whole world must must have been able to be controlled economically in AD90, not 2017.
What I’m saying here is that we’re on to something here involving economic repression and control …. but, that control could NOT involve modern technology such as computer chips. Unless, Apple had an outlet back then in Jerusalem.
2) Revelation gives some hints of the beast’s mark.
— First, it’s “the name of the beast or the number of his name”
— The number “is a man’s number,” and it is 666
Many are convinced the number translates into an actual name. This is because of the fact that in those times letters also represented numbers. Folks who do this letter-to-number conversion often come up with Nero as the Beast. Of course, hundreds of names over the centuries have been thusly identified one way or another — if I recall correctly, even Henry Kissinger was a candidate. Whoever it was, I will once again emphasize that John’s readers knew precisely who, or what, it was.
3) A most curious comment!! And THE key question.
John says “This calls for wisdom”. Now, if my premise is correct – that the people via coded messages knew exactly who the beast was — then the obvious question becomes; WISDOM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT??
Eugene Boring, a distinguished professor and recognized author of many theological books has this to say;
“When Revelation was read forth in the worship of the Asian churches, the call for wisdom to calculate the number of the beast was not a challenge to identify who the beast, the persecuting authority was – they knew that well enough already – but to recognize WHAT it was, that it was in fact the beast empowered by Satan, not the cultural savior it claimed to be”
Another distinguished commentary writer, Robert W. Wall, says that the number did not identify a particular individual at all. Rather, the number itself has a meaning;
“The cryptographic 666 falls short of the number 777, which symbolizes divine perfection. The beast or Antichrist does not measure up to the perfection of Christ, though he claims to do so.”
4) Warmer. Warmer. Warmer. HOT!
—– John says 666 “is man’s number” Man, is fallen and sinful.
—– seven is the number of completeness, and always refers to God and his work
If the meaning of “666” is in the number itself, then we have our answer!
The beast is nothing more than human government under demonic control. The “beast” has always been with us, it always will be, and one day the Beast will destroy all humanity … unless God intervenes.
Now, this is not necessarily my personal belief. But, my personal beliefs are totally irrelevant. I do believe that considering the above bedrock principles, and other guidelines and commentary, that the above conclusion that human government could be the ultimate source of our demise … well, it just makes the most sense biblically, and without jumping through a series of complex theological interpretive rules. Not to mention it avoids any number of fantastical scenarios.
In closing, I want you to consider that America could become the Beast — that particular human government under which nearly all humanity is under economic control. If that’s the case, then our demise is probably a longer way off than most people think. We’ll continue to amass more and more power until almost the whole world is under our control. This jives well with Revelation as many already believe that such is the goal of the Deep State. Who truly knows … but isn’t it at least possible that this is what is behind MAGA? Too bad for other counties but, we all ought to be in good shape. That’s the good news. The bad news is that God eventually gets tired of our shit. Then he utterly destroys America.
.
.
https://jewsforjudaism.org/
I don’t understand the game. Where are the choices? You have major headings and discussion of each but where is A, B, C or D for me to choose?
Fuck it all, I’m going to bed.
I don’t understand the comment …. or the joke, if that’s what it is.
I was actually looking forward to your response. It’s not at all what I expected and, in that regard, it is disappointing.
Nicely, done, Stucky. Still no hope for redemption unless you confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe God raised him from the the dead (Rom 10:9-10), in other words, believe the truth.
I agree with your analysis, but not necessarily you’re conclusion. Indeed, numerology clarifies the usage of the number of the beast, “666”, which is no mystery because John tells us in the verse, it is the number of man. More specifically, it is the number of man, “6”, 3 times, “3” being the number of completeness, so “666” represents the fullness of man.
That is all we know. Anything else is speculation, so I disagree with your assertion it means demonic control of human government. The anti-christ is a person whose father is the devil, born again of Devil. Paster Steve Anderson, in the “Marching to Zion” documentary on YouTube, https://youtu.be/typ2pl2L47k, says Jews are the anti-christ, because they deny Christ. But, I don’t think the term anti-christ applies to just anyone who denies Christ.
Another point to which I take exception is, “for NONE of them were written directly to us”. The Pauline Epistles were most certainly written to us today, the Saints in Christ Jesus, and you’re correct, it’s critical to get to whom is it written correct.
Otherwise, a thoughtful piece, even if you are still a goat. Also, what’s with the Jews for Judaism advert. Is Stukfuk a Jew? It would explain a lot, most notably his hatred for God and the inerrant truth of his word.
One final thing, and along these same lines. The mark of the beast could simply be a cashless society. It would fit, since once currency is only virtual, anyone could be denied it’s use at the whim of the directorate. With that in mind, then the beast would refer to a one world government with a global currency, which would not be great at all.
Thankfully, there is a saving grace, the grace of God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and all that is in them, and of his son, Jesus Christ, our hope for salvation. In the name of Jesus Christ, the name above all names, Amen.
Wow. A compliment from AWB! THE END IS NEAR!!!
If 666 is “no mystery” then I need an explanation of why John wrote “This calls for wisdom.” I offered one up. Perhaps you have an alternate one.
I think you missed my point — that the biblical authors do not write DIRECTLY to us. In Philemon Paul does not write “To Americans ..” but, rather “To Philemon our beloved fellow worker and Apphia our sister and Archippus …”
Everything I ever wrote about religious topics is speculation. I have no corner on truth.
I am definitely not Jewish.
I absolutely definitely do not hate God …. no matter how much you might believe that. Do I question God? Well …..
Of course Paul doesn’t write to Americans, that would be silly.
The epistles are written to the Saints, the household of faith. So, the statement, none of the bible is written directly to us, is patently false.
But, not to pick nits. What’s with the Jews for Judaism banner at the end of the article. I’ve heard of Jews for Jesus, but not Jews for Judaism. It’s a bit redundant, isn’t it?
I had to stop reading after just the first paragraph. You wrote::
“The answer is in Rev 1:4; — “To the seven churches in the province of Asia.”. It wasn’t written to Americans living in the year 2017. It was written to a specific group of seven Christian churches around 90AD in what is now modern day Turkey.
This means that the messages given directly to them do not necessarily apply directly to us today. It just can’t!”
This is just really off base. The book of The Revelation ( not Revelations) starts off with a preamble as John writes an overview before sending 7 specific, personalized letters to varying churches from his exile in Patmos.
Starting in Chapter 4, the entire book of the Revelation then reveals a vision that Christ gave to John of the end of the age or “endtimes.”
There really is no need to read any further than your first premise, when that is the basis of your entire litany and it is patently erroneous….sorry Stucky, not one of your better thought out ideas.
I actually agree with you. You should have read the next two paragraphs.
——————–
Don’t misunderstand me. Just because a book wasn’t written directly to us, does not mean there is no benefit to reading it. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have to bother reading any of the books in the Bible, for NONE of them were written directly to us. We read Scripture because the principles that appear therein most certainly do apply to us. Principles matter.
So then, although there is in America no prophetess named Jezebel teaching sexual immorality (well, maybe Hillary), the principle of remaining sexually pure certainly applies. Of course, to the church in Thyatira much more than just principle was at sake … they were under God’s direct command.
It’s often entertaining or interesting to examine ancient prophetic writings. Culturally the Bible’s a biggy. (Due to so much ubiquitous assimilation). One difficulty is we’re a materialism society. We seek to understand from what we see, analyse and can prove, yet we’re looking at the writings of a culture that empowered Gods/gods to determine outcomes of events, tying them to previous writings or beliefs “for it is written ” etc… (later spooking opposition with “heracy”). Yes, covert messaging, allegory and alluding to meanings in that similar to early pop culture, like Beetles “Lucy in the Sky..” to get past Roman censors….
Ancient Egyptians had knowledge of 38 constellations, so if the Jewdaic Semites originated from Egypt, it’s reasonable they had some similar stellar knowledge. At the Winter Solstice the Sun { Light} (son) is “reborn” between Taurus (Oxen) and Unicorn (Horse/Donkey?), with Orion (Hunter/Shepard?), accompanied by Canis ( sheepdog?) to one side….etc etc.
So real questions are can we be seeing an allegorical story told through metaphors of the stars by a far more superstitious “beyond here there be dragons” society?
And should we be looking at the symbolism of what energies/properties those mythical constellation characters are deemed to represent. The horse is a soul, green the color of envy/greed/ ill health etc…? In superstition / numerology etc 6 is material can be loving or can be self centered.
Ones soul being ridden by death can allude that through greed and envy we’re destroying our culture/habitat (one 6), by our hands/actions (2nd 6) and our minds/thoughts (3rd 6)..and this is the enslavement to the beast of chaos, that such thoughts/action allows external control/greed to direct a populous. Just another interpretation to get lost in the fog.
Perhaps Revelations could be paraphrased in a few words: “carry on like this and you’re fucked”
Right, except the Jew didn’t originate in Egypt, Joseph founded the schools of astronomy in Egypt, and it was from these schools the 3 wise men from the bible traveled 2 years to see the new born King, based on the signs they saw in the heavens.
No joke, I was really confused. I can’t do it over, I already read the cheatsheet.
When somebody makes me do something I don’t want to do, I will do my best to eff it up – Dr P
Everyone knows Obama is the Beast the Anti-Christ.
An anti-Christ yes but he is the Black Mahdi.
And Hillary the Whore of Babylon.
There is no mark of the beast. It’s a ruse.
The mark of the beast is what my dog left on the rug.
What you have said is as compelling as what is written here in the article. Because the premise of the article is wrong. John was not writing all of Revelation to the 7 churches mentioned in chapters 2 and 3. To begin from this premise skews the timing of the rest of the letter.
The system for the mark is already in place. The “hacking” of people’s credit info we regularly hear about is for the express purpose of replacing current ID systems with the mark.
Blessings:-}
I expected disagreement, but not on something as BASIC as to whom Revelation — the entire book — was written. It’s virtually impossible to find disagreement on this from anyone, anywhere. Well …. you.
Below is a link from Christian Library. Educate yourself.
http://www.christianlibrary.org/authors
———–
Do you realize the hundreds, if not thousands, of ideas offered over the course of millennia as to the identification of the mark ….. and to date EVERY one of them has been incorrect? And, yet, that doesn’t stop you from some level of certainty that it’s some credt-card-hacking thingy???
What if Jesus doesn’t come back for another thousand years — as valid as any other number of years. Imagine the level of human technology then. Imagine a reader a thousand years from now reading your post. Now imagine him or her laughing their asses off at such cretin technology.
But, hey, if credit card hacking meets your need for an answer, so be it.
Preterism is wrong. Among other things there has never been a time in the history of the world that all men have been forced to take a mark to be able to buy or sell. And as you have probably deduced, I believe that time is near and the church will be gone before it happens. The things described in Revelation match exactly with those Jesus told them was coming in Mathew24 and 25 concerning Israel’s future. A future described in Daniel9 also. A time Paul says in Romans11:25 begins when the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. Gentiles are still being saved so that time is not yet.
Blessings:-}
Yes, I admit I’m a Preterist. I think Revelation pertains to First Century Christians and I don’t believe in a tribulation. I believe in Judgment Day, which is what was referred to in the Middle Age and before. There is no reference to “tribulation” in early Christian writings, at least what we have access to, which the Vatican keeps hidden.
I’m sorry, but every slave enslaved by the Vikings was marked on their arm. All slaves in Rome were marked. The black slaves in America were marked by their color. Criminals in England in the Middle Ages were marked with a certain burn mark to their thumb, meaning if the6y were caught again they would be hanged. How hard was it to mark in the the ancient past? It only took a branding iron, a finger removal, fire, and more. That is not suggestive of a technological age. Do you think the “elitist” will be required to “take the mark?” I think not. So not everyone will be “marked.”
“Not everyone will be marked”.
He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev.13:16,17
The marks you speak of did not allow them to be the only ones who could buy and sell. So they could not qualify for the mark of Revelation13. And they did not affect every person on earth as the Revelation mark does.
Blessings:-}
The ones in charge are not required to follow the law.
For most gov’ts that is true, vixen. But, the gov’t of antichrist has one leader. And in his gov’t he sits as god, not a president. All must give allegiance and worship to hom. That’s what the mark signifies. They will wear it proudly just as many people wear their tattoos. Their popularity now is no coincidence.
Blessings:-}
Note that it does not say “He MAKES all…” But rather “He CAUSES all…” People will gladly take the mark, whatever it is, because they will want to. It’s interesting that the company which recently offered chips to its employees found that most were pleased to get it.
That’s true Gayle. I just wrote to vixen saying that people will be happy to take the mark. The stage is definitely set for the church to leave and the gov’t of AC to come into being. People who have rejected Jesus are ripe for his powerful deception.
Blessings:-}
Ed, do you consider it impossible that a great many of bodies that will take the mark are in fact empty vessels intended to encourage the “go along to get along” pressure of those few who truly have a choice?
That could happen I suppose. There were “giants” (the progeny of the union between fallen angels and women) in those days and afterwards. And as it was in the days of Noah so it will be at the time of the end. People like to follow celebrity so it makes sense that the AC might use these beings to encourage those who look up to them to receive the mark.
Blessings:-}
Yeah, I see a great deal of the effort surrounding those with an actual opportunity for choice with beings that look human but have no real choice. There must certainly be some degree of humanity within them, but they will have been lost before they ever were offered the opportunity to be a member of humanity.
Thus a great deal of humanity which has an actual choice when the mark is made available (and will not be obvious except in hindsight) will be surrounded by seeming equals all saying yes.
The problem with this entire structure is it seems to setup a situation for those who have a choice to be placed in a situation where their only option is to go along or die. The problem here is that to die by failure to comply… is so readily associated with overt suicide for failure to deal with yourself. It’s hard for many to disconnect dying from starvation due to failure to just register with an agency… with “killing yourself with a pistol because you can’t cope with your own problems”.
Nobody said the puzzle of here would be clear, eh?
“Yes, I admit I’m a Preterist. I think Revelation pertains to First Century Christians and I don’t believe in a tribulation.”
BOOM!! OK, I’m officially in love with you.? It is the best available option.
For folk who don’t know what the hell we are talking about;
——–
“Four different ways of interpreting of Revelation traditionally.
1. Preterist – Most if not all of the book was fulfilled in the past.
2. Futurist – The things in the book are to be fulfilled sometime in the future.
3. Historical – The things in the book have been fulfilled in the life of the church in great events throughout history.
4. Spiritual – The things found are not literal but symbolize the struggle between the forces of good and evil throughout the centuries.
——
The preterist view is the ONLY view which meets bedrock criteria #1 — Determine the meaning of a Scripture as AS THE PEOPLE LIVING AT THAT TIME WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT.
Do you mean we actually agree, Stucky. i never would have thought it.
That, to me, means means you’re a true believer an you are testing other men. Or maybe I’m wrong.
Sorry for the correction, but I had a few Guinness or two before replying. By the way , I don’t think Christians were restricted to grape juice, which was impracticable before caning or refrigeration
For a mind expanding side trip but definitely with a Christian worldview:
Read some Jakob Böhme, the German mystic…or at least some good summaries of his works since he is one of the most difficult writers to plow through. It was like a flash of lightning when I began, in some small way, to see what he was expressing.
He illuminates such “extreme” Bible teachings as “be ye perfect,” greater things shall you do,” know ye not, ye are gods?” etc. It also makes sense of Elohim as a plural (please, spare me the Trinitarian dogma), humankind’s critical role as a “hinge” between Good and Evil and a whole lot more. I’ve been studying religion and philosophy for 40 years and his voice is the single, most illuminating writer of the myriad I have studied. If I never read another source from here on out I would be greatly enriched.
One final tidbit: A lot of the misunderstanding (and mockery) about Christianity goes away as soon as you understand/believe that it is OUR craving to personalize God that gives folks the ammo for calling the Creator a “sky fairy”…we have literally made God in OUR own image.
We are individuated or discrete personalities while we’re in the physical. That is all we have known and so the less thoughtful make that the model for Big Daddy. But if, as Christ (BTW that is the Christos, the indwelling spirit in all of us rather than Jesus, the physical vehicle for the teachings) said, he/it has known us before the foundations of the world was laid, he knew us as God before our material formation. Just remember physical life is a TEMPORARY state and there is no need to shove God into absurd personifications to make him “personal.”
Nice chatting with you, let’s do it again in Eternity : )
As they would have understood it doesn’t mean it had to exist. Only that they were capable of understanding it. The first century church was expecting Christ return to come in their lifetimes, which didn’t happen, so BOOM!! The preterist view is incorrect.
Might I ask the source of your fascination with the Book of Revelation, when, as a Jew, you reject Jesus Christ as both Lord and Savior?
St. Dufflebag
That Jakob Böhme fellow sounds interesting. Thanks. Just might have to do some searches on his stuff
Stucky, I frequently write comments here meant to be comprehended by the current audience, but with a much more important intention toward an unknown audience in the future.
And I’m not a prophet, disciple, or anything else of divine inflection. I’m just someone aware of the influence of the past on the present which creates the future.
Therefore I write to you today in a way you will understand, but with a meaning that those in the future with more time to contemplate will be able to extract even more meaning, especially when they are able to overlay what I say TODAY with what has happened since and what is happening to them at that current time (because certain things are universal through time and space).
Do you deny the writers you reference a power that I, a shitty forum poster, make use of every single time I post?
In a thousand years, we’ll probably be in another dark age and technology will have disappeared. Who knows?
True enough, Vixen Vic.
OTOH, we might be traversing the stars going where no man has gone before.
Maybe the Beast will reside in the holodeck of the starship USS Enterprise??
LOL. Where is Captain Kirk when you need him?
In a thousand years, we’ll probably be in another dark age and technology will have disappeared.
That could very well be what happens. But I have no doubt that if humanity does somehow manage a thousand more years without devolution to pre-technological primitivism, by then the whole sorry edifice of Abrahamic big-guy-in-the-sky sacerdotal parasite mind-control horseshit will be of concern or interest solely to historians and cultural pathologists – and not very many of them.
In other words your saying;
Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
To which the answer for the faithful is;
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It is His longsuffering that keeps you from your chosen place in the lake of fire right now. His gift is your’s for the receiving. But, the time is running out for you to be able to make that choice.
Blessings:-}
Zero interest in this QOTD.
BUT:
I am totally at a loss trying to understand how anyone could waste their time (life) writing such useless crap. I am amazed at the content and how it stitches together – I just cannot imagine at any point in my life that I would have wasted my time putting all that thought and info into something others would read.
Of course, I recognize that there are many other ‘whatever’ subjects for which I have zero interest that may interest others immeasurably, meaning my opinion could be related to an asshole (since everyone has one).
I’m amazed I wrote this; the thought occurred not to post it.
WIP asked the question only yesterday.
As you know, I greatly enjoy religious/spiritual topics. With the significant number of BOTH believers and non-believers (and even Tweeners) I think it adds value to this forum … and more often than not leads to lively discussion. I try to add enough informative content to make it more than just my own blurted out opinion but, most importantly, to make folks think about the topic — whether or not they agree with me is irrelevant. I’m not here to make converts.
I say all that because “all that thought” equated to just a few hours — from when I went to bed last night to about noon this morning.
Yes, it took time but, only because I’m working on this tablet. I did virtually no research besides looking up the verses quoted here and copying them.
When a reader directly asks me a question, and I answer it by volunteering to make it a post, I feel an obligation to do as good a job as possible. If I wasted time (I don’t think that’s the case), well, it is my time to waste.
If it was a waste of your time, I apologize. It’s under 3k words, so it couldn’t have been that bad.
Stucky, I much appreciate you’re getting us “thinking” about the topic. I think your contributions here are invaluable.
You’re the man Stuck. Koko is a dick. Maybe he’s the beast and knows you’re closing in on him.
I say it’s the cellphone. I don’t think you’ll be able to buy or sell without one, it has a number, you hold it in your hand and everyone worships it already.
LOL
I appreciate your honesty. I know that LLPOH also preached honesty and folks don’t last too long spreading bullshit here. I think that is what makes the racist creed posts repellent, they belong somewhere else where folks are more tolerant of bullshit.
The reason I say I appreciate your honesty is that you demonstrate how dedicated you are to digging for and revealing the truth of the writing while flicking off the flecks of dogma and doctrine.
Your approach isn’t wrong at all, it’s described in the bible as something the Bereans did; fact-checking the teachings of Paul and the apostles. (Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.)
Simply swallowing and regurgitating the things taught in a church setting is not engaging the literature. In that case, we could all simply learn the Nicene creed and go home.
Thank you, Sir, for all you do here. Whether you know it or not, and it doesn’t matter, none of us will ever know for sure, you build up, shore up, support the fallen spirits of folks who need the salve, the knowledge, the reassurance that they are not wrong to seek here the things not available in the houses of religious fanatics.
Your studies have not gone to waste. They are a treasure stored up in your heart for just this forum. (For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.)
https://ok.ru/video/267319183992
Now THAT is what I was hoping for.
Yes, I like the kind sentiments. Who wouldn’t? Even the hardest of hard-ass authors appreciate validation of their efforts — cuz writing can be hard — whether the commentor is in agreement with the content, or not. So, thank you, my friend.
But, it goes far beyond that. I have told you for years now, you are one of my favorite commenters here. You insight and wit are right up there with the best writers on TBP.
For example, loved the Bereans reference.
You know who else are like Bereans? Jews! They love to argue over EVERYTHING spiritual. That’s why there have been so many sects, even in Jesus’ time up to today. I think of the scene in Fiddler On The Roof where the Rabbi is arguing with the students, and the students with each other …. over minutiae!! You can’t get more Jewish than that.
I know it’s late, so I appreciate even more that you took the time to respond.
Bull crap! Jews are not like Bereans, more like Cretes.
Rabbinical judaism is nothing more than much ado about nothing. The bright line which divides the goats from the sheep is whether you love God, or love the world.
If you love God, believe the truth of his word, all of it, as canonized by the end of the first century. If you love the world, then listen to Stucky. He hates God, or better yet, watch this documentary, Marching to Zion, https://youtu.be/typ2pl2L47k. It’s 1:45 hours, and worth watching every minute of it, as opposed the specks of drivel drool which Stukfuk spews.
Only a handful here, if that, believe I hate God.
This is purely a figment of your imagination. Yet, you desperately continue to seek out converts.
You will not succeed … for people here have mighty strong Bullshit Detectors, and yours registers a solid 10.
Well said El Santo. I concur. Don’t know enough about the subject to comment, nevertheless you da’ man Stucky. It is a very interesting topic, fer’ shure’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4QBTot7ObM
This must be one of, if not the most hotly debated topic in the last 2000 years so no, it’s not a waste of time. A name to reflect products you are not happy with doesn’t occur to and seems a waste of time to me.
I gotta tell ya, your “useless crap” comment is quite the slap in the face.
I actually liked his post. I thought it was quite nice.
You are an armchair theologian having no working knowledge of the Bible whatsoever. Those words of John’s were written to us and all generations, especially those concerning the mark of the beast. You along with every other Satan Worshipper disguised as a Christian never ever realize what the Mark of the Beast actually does for those that receive it, that being, eternal life. Read on in Revelation and you’ll see that when they are tormented they attempt suicide, but death flees from them. No one at the time of John’s writings had received the MOTB and certainly no one was tormented for having it. Revelation also lets us know that for the idiots that bow the knee to Satan and receive the Mark of the AntiChrist will be personally tormented by Jesus Christ Himself in the flames of hell for eternity. From now on read and understand what you are attempting to discuss or keep your thoughts to yourself please, thanks.
IMHO the motb will be hybridized alien DNA. Developed in the labs of monsanto, made into vaccines by Glaxo, and administered to the whole wide world by the who. Any one refusing said vaccine will have their credit score and their smart phone turned off. This vaccine will cure/prevent Aids, ebola, smallpox, and the flu. once you take it you will never get sick again. By taking this shot you are swearing allegiance and trust of Jewluminati NWO. Anyone not willing to take this simple little shot will prove they don’t belong in the enlightened future being provided us by our ‘betters’. And will be relegated to the fema camps to await their beheading.
Hondo, you should read what Josephus says about the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans and compare that with Revelations.
Josephus is not the Author and Finisher of my faith, Christ is, thank you much. But historically the sacking of Jerusalem is just a forerunner, a taste of what is to come when all hell breaks loose on this earth. When all the Christians are dead, not raptured, and the fifth seal becomes reality then maybe you’ll understand just how fragile the world really is. thanks
Can you please tell me where in the Bible the “rapture” is discussed. I’ve failed to find it.
1 Thessalonians 4:17King James Version (KJV)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I’m sorry, but this is talking about going to Heaven. Again, I’ve missed the rapture part. Can you give me other references?
Sorry. I was addressing Hondo.
the greek word for ‘gathering together” is roughly translated as “rapture”. Believe me it is all bullshit that the baptists and pentacostals perpetuate to any idiot that will listen. I wish I had a better attitude towards the buffoons in the churches but I just don’t. They have made our Lord and Saviour a laughing stock instead of the King He really is. thanks
“Josephus is not the Author and Finisher of my faith”
——- Hondo, replying to Vixen Vic
She said nothing of the sort. She merely asked you to consider Josephus’ account of the sacking of Jerusalem … a valuable historical document.
Wow. Wow. Wow. What a fucking retarded comment … and quite the statement about your own intellect. Tells me everything I need to know about you. Your biblical IQ must be somewhere in single digits.
It figures you would go on the attack against anyone who dares question your theology. Quite ironic, really, since the overriding and overarching purpose of your posts is to attack Christianity.
Such of the deception and false narrative of rabbinical jews, and all who hate God Almighty.
You don’t find it odd that “Christianity” was founded by someone who never even met Jesus (outside of the knockout punch that converted him) and who actually was at cross purposes to what James, the brother of Jesus, taught as someone at Jesus’ right hand for his entire public ministry?
Because Paul is the “founder” of Christianity, not Jesus. Paul was the proselytizer who spread it. You may think that is a fabulous outcome or a terrible one but it doesn’t change the fact that what Jesus taught was repurposed by Paul into the brand we know as early Christianity, or at least the part that wasn’t stamped out as heresy.
I never understood why people took the word of Paul for anything that went beyond the actual words of Jesus as we have come to accept them as historically most verifiable. I don’t need someone who got his religion in a revelation to explain to me why THAT ONE REVELATION is what it’s all about. I can have my own revelation, or find another voice–like Böhme– to blaze a path ahead that I am only able to dimly perceive. That fact that you accept Paul’s version of Jesus’ message shows you are much more the theologian than the spiritual being that I thought was the object of this exercise.
By the way, you may want to take a peek at Raymond Smullian’s logical analysis of proofs of God. He was no amateur: original thinking on Godel’s proofs, concert pianist, author of many books on philosophy and logic. His point: There is no more reason for anyone to accept YOUR version of truth than there is for someone to deny you have it…it is not a conclusion that can be proven, only believed.
I wonder if you realize your attitude is EXACTLY what got Jesus hung up on a cross. You seem to have the same blind, and unfounded, faith in your own capacity to discern Truth.
Err, what? Christianity is the New Testament, or covenant of God with man. That a man, Paul, revealed it has no bearing whatsoever.
Paul and James, actually Peter, worked out their differences.
What I find odd is that people who refuse to accept the truth of God’s word, are so adamant in attacking it.
Then, you want to blame me for the crucifixion of Christ. The bible says the devil crucified Christ, it also says the Jews crucified him, and obviously, the Romans were complicit, so you’re a little off the mark, and I’m none of these.
Nowhere in the epistles does it proscribe capital punishment for any offense. The closest it comes is in Romans,
“Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” (Romans 1:32 ESV)
Because in the OT, stoning was a common practice for violation of the law. But, as you know, we are no longer under the Law of Statutes, but the Law of Grace, so we will all be held accountable for what we believe.
“You are an armchair theologian ….”
Unless one went to seminary — which I did, but did not graduate — then we are all “armchair” theologians. Except you, right?
——
” … no working knowledge of the Bible whatsoever.”
Hahaha! “No working knowledge of the Bible as I understand it!” There, fixed it for ya.
——
“You … Satan Worshipper”
Hahaha!!! Niiice!!
——-
” … personally tormented by Jesus Christ Himself”
Well, so much for that Jesus-is-love theory!! Do you use that line when you witness to someone? I’ll bet thousands have come to the Lord with that strategy. BTW, Herr Theologian, is that even in the Bible?
——
“From now on …. keep your thoughts to yourself ”
Never. Ever. Gonna. Happen. You might consider a change in your own attitude, cuz otherwise, I’m going to be a yuge thorn in your side.
Blessings ;<)
Sorry, Stucky, but can’t tell who you’re addressing that to.
Vixen, he was speaking to Hondo, the moran who claimed Jesus would become the eternal tormenter in hell. Rrrlly?
Yes, He will be the tormentor in Hell. Revelation fully explains that those that receive the mark of the beast will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb. thanks
personally tormented by Jesus Christ Himself in the flames of hell – Hondo version
They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. – NIV
Always looking to exploit the righteous indignation your posts stir up. You’re no different from any other who reject the truth of God’s word, although it has taken awhile to recognize the pattern of your deceptions.
The devil constantly changes his methods, but his motives are unchanging.
Go fuk yourself, Stukfuk. Thanks for the clue about your rabbinical judaic observances. Your arrogance precedes you, and it was the final piece I needed to completely and utterly dismiss you. No one should listen to you, no matter how knowledgeable you appear. The great deception of the 20th century was the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. The greater deception occurred in the 3rd century AD by Rome in compromising christianity with paganism to establish a state religion. Thank God for the 1st amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America! Do not be deceived.
“Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15 ESV)
“No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:23 ESV)
“Go fuk yourself, Stukfuk.”
Is that your closing summary? THAT is the best you got?? In a court of law that could only result in one verdict; Case Dismissed!! And the courtroom explodes in rapture at my victory. Then you are banished into utter darkness where there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
—————-
“… completely and utterly dismiss you”
Ahhhh, if only it were so easy for you. You thought about me all day yesterday. And when you went to bed. You thought of me this morning the moment you awoke. You ran to your computer to check my responses. You’re thinking of me now. You’ll be thinking about this article, the responses, and me all day long. You are even now scheming your next response to me. This will continue for a loooong time. For you see ….. I AM IN YOUR HEAD
———–
“No one should listen to you, ”
Ahhhh, but they DO!! Look at all the kind comments in this thread. It is like that in every religious thread I’ve written. And you know why? Because I’m not pushing an agenda. I have no desire to convert anyone. I present information, often an alternate view. It makes things interesting. But, most importantly — unlike yourself — I don’t NEED to be correct! Look at Bea’s most recent post. It is the polar opposite of what I believe. And guess what? It doesn’t bother me!!
Many people here disagree with my views. But, they listen. And that really makes you go batshit crazy. This makes me so happy.
Remember this if you keep your word and dismiss me forever; I’ll still be in your head.
By your own statement, you’re not Jewish, and neither are you getting away with rejecting the truth so easily.
You’re quick to throw insults, and quick to point out when others do so, you hypocrite. Your entire OP is riddled with inaccuracies, because you don’t believe the truth of God’s word, yet when anyone challenges you, you resort to playground bully tactics. You may have some fooled, but not most.
“You are an armchair theologian ” LOL…are there any other kind ?
I’m not sure what the mark will be but this ” human Government under Demonic control ” as you put it will use this mark to identify people who are loyal to it.Without the mark you will not be allowed to do business as in buying or selling .I used to think the mark was spiritual like when a Christian is sealed by the Holy Spirit but with such powerful High Technical equipment available it must be material as well as spiritual . I believe the book of Revelation is for the Church throughout the age of Grace including the first century as well as now.I am interested in your view Stucky!!!
@BB …this, without which no one can buy or sale , not even Doug Casey …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk
Hondo
1. Fuck you, Stucky knows more than you ever will dream of knowing.
2. Where did you get the idea for “will be personally tormented by Jesus Christ Himself in the flames of hell for eternity”? You must be thinking of Joseph Smith who is said to keep folks in hell until he deems them worthy of release.
3. Change your moniker, it’s an insult to The Duke.
I didn’t ‘get’ the idea. Read Revelation 14:10 and if that doesn’t convince you then what else is left to be said. thanks
Stucky, are you taking suggestions for QOTD? Big Mike never posted any of my suggestions. What makes Wasted in Public so special?
Hey wetback (this is El coyote, correct?), maybe you questions were of the idiotic kind?
Wreck In Park, I was complaining that Big Mike never once took my suggestions but, here, Stucky the Magnanimous even shared the credit with you.
I am for the moment, EL Cibernetico. I have also claimed EL Coyote, Chen, Juan not John, Another Juan, El Shaka (RIP), and a bunch of others but not Billah’s Wife; no one can beat that master troll.
El
I’m always open to suggestions.
And willing to assist/do them IF I feel capable to do the subject matter justice.
I know I turned down at least two requests because I simply didn’t know enough about the topic.
Feel free to ask anytime.
Get a room.
Stucky- I posted the answer already in another thread.The mark of the beast is the RFID chip that will be placed in the fleshy part of the hand between the thumb and pointer finger. You will not be able to buy or sell or drive your car as your car will be set to the particular frequency of your chip. Cash will no longer be in circulation and your credit card accounts will also be set to your chip. As you leave a store the reader will ID your chip and charge your account.
I read many years ago that the chip will also give TPTB the ability to terminate a human if they deem it necessary.
If that were to happen, that’s when you quit the system, move to the boonies, grow your own food, and trade for anything else you need.
Food, water, shelter and warmth are all you need (and sex for the men out there). Anything else is dressing for your turkey.
Yes, I expect heat from that one, but regardless. And yes, women like sex, but not as much as men, and life is carried forward regardless.
VV? That was the oddest self-replying remark of the day. Life is indeed carried forward, regardless.
And, by the way, we moved to the boonies and are doing fine in all regards.
I think the following: the Mark will be physical; maybe a chip or invisible Bar Code. The 666 Beast will be the President of the EU (or whatever the ZOG is called at that time). It will be after many Natural Disasters strike the USA, after we are reduced to a Communist Garbage Third World dump, after WWIII (The Mystery Babylon destroyed in one hour by fire?), during the Coming Ice Age and the Tribulation. The Beast will be a Rothschild who backs the new e-currency (only) with his wealth that enables the World’s Economy to restart after the coming currency crashes (esp the dollar). Asia will probably have a Shogun that is the World’s Vice President. All this is probably at least 10 years away and perhaps 50; a lot of Prophecy (Bible and otherwise) will happen first. OK Stuckey, I know you will be on this like a Lion on prey.
Great comment RHS!
Jump all over you? Nah!!!
It IS the question of the day. If I jump all over folk when they simply answer the question, then they will start to avoid future QOTD.
Besides, the answers are interesting.
As long as people are prospecting for ideas about the Mark:
I think it’s a henna tattoo, washes out after a week or so. Satan so depressed he made such a rookie error he enters Betty Ford Clinic. New Jerusalem descends. Reign of peace. Jamie Dimon gives away his fortune.
OK. I made the last sentence up.
I have thought for many years that the invisible bar code will be the mark. It will be on the forehead of all those approved by the rulers, so the system can recognize those who are acceptable to the system and those who are interlopers. There are cameras everywhere now you don’t see. They see you; you don’t see them. Your computer has a camera in it now. In the future, all electronic devices in the home will include cameras. Maybe home light fixtures will have cameras. TPTB will not only see what is done everywhere, they will see who does it.
The mark will also be on the hand. In buying at any store, those in the system will simply wave their hand at the electronic reader as they walk through the checkout line, like you scan your debit or credit card now. Money will be pulled automatically from your electronic bank account. Have you noticed that gooberments and their supporters are trying hard to eliminate paper currency?
Milk and eggs from the grocery store have expiration dates. Truth does not have an expiration date. What was true in AD 70 is still true now.
It was an excellent, thought provoking post, though.
Here is the link I posted with the comment in the other thread:
https://www.infowars.com/implanted-microchip-to-replace-credit-cards-car-keys/
This was on Drudge Report yesterday.
It’s just some bullshit.
You could not be more wrong Z. This is absolutely going to happen short of divine intervention.
I remember reading about the friend of David Rockefeller’s son relating how they laughed about how everyone would be chipped and enslaved and that was probably twenty years ago.
Stucky, we don’t call Jared666 (666) for nothing.
I’m pretty sure the RFID chip was developed by Lucent Technologies and (wait for it ) is headquartered at 666 Fifth Ave. which is owned by Jared Kushner/family since his father passed away. Jared666 also maintains his company offices in that building.
Lucent Technologies, as in Lucifer?
Knew about Jared, but not Lucent. Trump has been dealing with degenerate jews his entire business career. I’m hopeful he recognizes and knows how to deal with their treachery. Time will tell.
AWB- Just think how proud the Trumpeteers will be when/if it should turn out that Jared666 is to be the antichrist and they voted for Trump (Jared’s father-in-law) who propelled Jared into power. How do you deal with your own family members AWB, hard to smite your own son-in-law, lol.
That’s my point exactly. Like I said, hopefully he is able to discern the treachery of the jews. Zionism is a deception perpetrated against the West.
How do you propose it be handled?
Wow! Arch nemesis status! How humbling is that?
First of all, Archie, you should realize that the 7 seven churches were each a type to be repeated later as ant-types which is the pattern of the Bible. So, no, God was not only speaking to the 7 churches of John’s time but to the anti-type churches which extend to the present time.
Next, Archie, you should realize that a mark on one’s forehead refers to that which he believes in his mind and heart. The mark on his hand, refers to his actual behavior. Acting like a “good Christian” is of little value if in your heart you have doubt, for instance.
Then you must identify the Beast. Here you attempt to do so without even using the companion book of Daniel which unlocks the mysteries of Revelation. The true Christian church that fled to the wilderness to practice the apostolic faith as set forth in their scriptures, the Greek Received Text, knew exactly who was persecuting them. History outlines a period of 1260 years (prophesied by Daniel) that these people were under severe persecution by the Roman Catholic Church. The wilderness church spread from Syria, east to the Orient, and west as far as Ireland. The book, “Truth Triumphant” by Benjamin George Wilkinson goes far beyond the fake history the the Church of Rome crafted. All of the great reformers from Luther to Calvin to Huss, to Wycliffe, to Tyndale and Knox (to name a few) all identified the Roman Catholic Church as the Beast of Revelation. When Luther translated the Bible into German he first translated the book of Daniel (which you ignored) because he realized its significance in unlocking the symbology of Revelation.
Revelation 14 which warns humanity of taking on the mark of the beast tells us to “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters” What else did God create? He created the Sabbath on the seventh day and made it holy. The Bible tells us that the Sabbath is a sign (a mark) between God and his people. What did the Roman Catholic Church do? They outlawed the Sabbath and forced the world to observe the first day instead. Don’t take my word for it, read about it in their own words at http://www.romeschallenge.com/ A tiny excerpt: “And this is today the position of the respective parties to this controversy. Today, as this document shows, this is the vital issue upon which the Catholic Church arraigns Protestantism, and upon which she condemns the course of popular Protestantism as being “indefensible, self-contradictory, and suicidal,” What will these Protestants, what will this Protestantism, do?”
If you pay attention to world events you will recognize the great push towards Sunday rest and Sunday worship which is becoming the law in Europe and will spread here and everywhere. That, Archie, is the mark of the beast.
John’s Relevation is written as a letter to the seven churches. He states it right there in the letter.
Sorry, VV, but it was intended to be read by all Christians until the end. Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” That falling away would not come until the fall of the Roman Empire which opened the door to the Roman Catholic Beast system which revealed the “son of perdition” with the election of each new Pope. While they lost their power to persecute “heretics” in 1798, they have gained immensely in power, particularly since the 1929 Lateran treaty that restored their political power. This is the hidden power behind the UN, The New World Order, the Masons and most other secret societies attempting to bring about the changes in society we are all witnessing today.
Let no man deceive you, particularly that blowhard who calls himself Stucky.
Dithcner,
You’re still around. I can only surmise you are a Seventh Day Adventist? I may have already asked you this some time ago.
If I were to officially join a denomination it would be SDA. In the 19th century they could clearly justify calling themselves “the remnant”. Today they have become politically correct in many nations and rarely preach the 3 angels messages of Rev. 14.
Rev. 12:17 mentions the remnant “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Where “testimony of Jesus” is defined in Rev 19:10 “…I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” The Adventists got the exegesis of Revelation correct and were not fooled by the Jesuits who invented the obvious lies of preterism and futurism which have put 99.9% of Christianity to sleep.
“If I were to officially join a denomination it would be SDA.” —— Ditchner
I just checked their membership requirements. So solly for you …. they don’t take in assholes..
OMG!! That one’s a jewel! Sorry, my sense of humor is a little..well, a lot juvenile. I try really hard to hide it, though. Only my husband appreciates it, because his is worse!
I’ll only try to post what I understand, so I’m not going to go point by point.
To your first point, all epistles were written to the churches in cities such as Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia etc., so I would disagree concerning your assumption the book of book of Revelation was written to only the seven churches in Asia. In each of the epistles, local concerns were addressed and also matters that pertain to the faithful universally. The custom of the time was to circulate the epistles among the churches, so the churches in Asia were not hoarding their epistle only for themselves.
Concerning the MOTB, I believe it is describing an end time future event when a powerful man will declare himself to be one who directly opposes God in Christ Jesus. I believe that will be a true test of where you place your faith in, for as described, for those who reject the mark it will be as a death sentence ( there may be some provision for them, see Matthew 25:32-40).
The age is dark and there has been much speculation, including some many years ago who feared the soc sec number was the end times MOTB, but I don’t believe that event was the fulfillment of the prophesy.
But the trend is moving along. The age is becoming Godless, we all have our soc sec numbers (a stepping stone, not the actual event) and our currency will soon become a few bits and bytes on a banks harddrive. It seems we may be offered that choice in our lifetime.
That’s about as much as I’d like to speculate, your study of the Bible is impressive, I hope it leads you to what the book of Revelation was written for; to receive the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Just a point, there have been many Godless times in history. I wouldn’t call the Vikings invading England a good time for England. This is a mere example. But those people certainly had it worse than we do now. They didn’t even have some we consider simple, such as electric heaters.
Another example, when Caesar invaded Germany and cut off everybody’s arms that defied him so they had to beg for their food and feeding, and served as a reminder of what happens when you defy Rome. Just a few examples.
Why was that down thumbed own? That is history, my man.
It wasn’t my thumb!
Thanks for your reply, I find many dark times in history, but I won’t point to any time as “the event”, only that each dark moment in human history just substantiates that yes, we are fallen and in need of a Savior.
Many have tried to predict when the event will happen, I believe you will see it when it hits you in the face; any attempt to predict is horse puckey.
But the MOTB is really not what its all about anyway, live a life by faith and strive to become a mature Christian is more than enough of a calling for us to base our lives on; sign and wonders can become excuses for our missing the mark (not saying its wrong, just don’t get caught up in it) and for that, there will be a judgment. The past is covered in the blood and the future is the playground of the enemy in filling us with anxieties and endless debates that can shipwreck our faith; for me, to live is Christ… that is enough.
Preterist, future, historical or spiritual are all different paths to the same goal, let that goal be to gain Christ and all else to be water under the bridge.
Vixen Vic
It is virtually certain that most of the down thumbs come from the Trinity of Evil; AWB, Ditchner, and their father, Satan. Hahaha
Take it as a sign of victory. We are winning the Good Fight with unassailable logic and clear thinking.
They have nothing but a thumbs down widget. How pathetic!
You whine like crazy for a couple of days after you get downvoted to hell, though.
Vic- I did not downvote you but it has to be a global thing , Mmmkay. Maybe that is why they dinged you.
Sometimes people get downvoted specifically to see who cares about such nonsense and just trigger them into embarrassing themselves into asking who downvoted them.
Othertimes they get downvoted because they use isolated historical events to project a broad brush that isn’t really appropriate.
It’s frequently hard to know which version is happening.
If you read Rev, you notice the people of God are sealed while those who are evil receive a mark. Marks fade, but one who is sealed is sealed forever. 6 is the number of man as being incomplete without rest in God, whose perfect number is 7. 666 is just using repeated numbers for emphasis. Those who are not sealed are marked as never reaching Gods perfect design.
Marks fade, but one who is sealed is sealed forever.
See! I told you it was henna!
So if Gods perfect number is 7.666, why not round it up to 7.7?
2 things;
1: Number Of The Beast – best album ever
2: You guys do realise that the Bible is officially classified as fiction right?
“2: You guys do realise that the Bible is officially classified as fiction right?”
Officially, by whom? I think it’s “officially” classified as religious text, but that is also in error.
It is officially truth, as defined by the highest authority, God Almighty.
You do know that you will never be able to objectively prove that, right? I don’t mean it may not be true, I mean YOU can never prove it. Why speak in such absolutes? You are asking us to borrow your faith when faith clearly can’t be borrowed. As a **non-Christian** once so thoughtfully observed: “Spirituality cannot be taught, it can only be caught.”
You won’t ever be able to objectively prove your position, either, yet you seem pretty well convinced. Everyone believes something. That’s a given. My belief is that we will all be held accountable for what we believe. You don’t believe that, so what is it to you what anyone else believes?
I eagerly await your reply, Sir Jim Bob Douchebag.
AWB comment on your 9/16 at 957am…. I am looking at your thumbs up and down, even at 6. I vote for a third column being neutral and an if only 5 other thumbs would join with me thumbing it we’d have the mark of the beast right here in river city…all done mystically!!
Key Question #1: To whom directly was Rev 13 written?
First Century Christians when the Romans came to destroy Jerusalem and the temple.
(I’ve said before, I’m not a Dispensationalist.)
Key Question #2: In what style is Revelation written, and why?
Revelations is the most Hebraic writing in the New Testament. It can be compared to many Old Testament texts as far as symbolism, etc. John wrote it to warn the early Christians of what was coming. I believe he wrote before the Roman invasion of Jerusalem, and there are scholars out there that agree, though many don’t.
Key Question #3: How does one determine True Worship?
OK, that’s a hard one. I guess by trusting and believing without reservation and praying.
By the way, the beast was Nero. In Roman numerals the name represents 666.
Wow is all I can say.
Wow, Stucky, I’m simply amazed at your Biblical knowledge. And I was trying to recommend books to you, LOL. 🙂
I agree with most of what you say. And the 666 part was very convincing, and I believe that is going on now, with government being Satanic. I mean, look at all the pedophilia, theft, assassinations, etc. But I agree with the Oxford Bible and other authors that 666 was Nero and that Revelation was written before Jerusalem fell. As I said in a comment above, Josephus’ description of Rome’s war against Jerusalem does coincides with Revelation. I have a book that describes the coincidences, and have to agree they’re convincing. I know, in reading a book, some people stretch things to fit the mold, but I don’t think that was done in this case. (I can’t remember the title and author right now, but if you want it, I’ll look for it.)
Again, just amazed at your Biblical knowledge.
Vixen Vic
I do not mind people recommending books. There is always more room for knowledge. OTOH, there is only so much time in the day, and to the reading of books there is no end.
My knowledge of the Bible doesn’t amount to diddley-squat. Knowledge is relative, right? To a recent convert or, to a person who never read the Bible then, sure, what I know is impressive. But, compare me to one of the authors I quoted in the article — M. Eugene Boring — then I’m nothing but a rank amateur. I couldn’t even lick the mud off the boots of the great ones, such as C.S. Lewis.
——
Of all the topics and specialties available in Scripture, there is none I spent more time studying than prophecy. Countless books, countless study, countless time. Frankly, I’m embarrassed by it. I couldn’t today answer “to what end?”. Knowledge solely for knowledge’s sake is a waste of time. That’s one thing my old age has taught me.
Stucky, I believe if you truly believe, and accept Jesus, that’s all that matters, regardless of your reading.
But, he doesn’t.
AWB,
With the level of anger and rage you are showing towards Stucky,I question your acceptance of Christianity.
In what way have I directed anger at Stucky except when he directs an attack towards me? It took awhile to recognize this as a pattern of his, he’ll goad someone into responding in anger, then slap them in the face with the same response as your post. You haven’t provided any specifics, so I’ll leave it at that.
“In what way have I directed anger at Stucky except when he directs an attack towards me? ”
———–AWB
Liar. From your VERY FIRST POST EVER you addressed me as Stuckfuk, followed by your usual desperate (but, comic) rants against my being and soul. Every regular reader here knows this.
———–
Folks, isn’t it comical to watch AWB come UNGLUED??
Yes, it is. But, it could be scary … if we lived in another time, or place. Does anyone understand what kind of man he is?
— If we lived during the Inquisition, he would be the torturer.
— If we lived in the 1600s, he would drown women as heretics.
— And if he lived in a mooslim country, he would EXECUTE all who disagree with him.
Oh, yes, he would. Don’t disbelieve that for a moment. Just read only his comments in this thread. His anger, rage, and intolerance for any views other than his own is psychotic. JUst look what he wrote to St. Joe Bob Dufflebag
“I eagerly await your reply, Sir Jim Bob Douchebag.” —– AWB
Now go back and read what Sir Jom Bob posted? Swearing and cursing? No! Name calling? No! Insults? No! Sooooo, why did AWB call him a “Douchebag”. Because St. Joe Bob had an OPINION that AWB did not like.
Oh, yes, a thousand times yes. People like AWB, given the opportunity and license … would kill you simply for thinking differently. Of course, coward that he is, he’ll just leave it up to Jeebus to personally torture me forever. This man is psychotic, folks.
And, over what?? He hates and scorns and mocks anyone who ….. thinks TMOB isn’t literally true!!
It’s not like we’re debating if Jesus is God. We’re talking about a fucking mark! Why would someone have so much anger over a topic that is so meaningless, mundane, and irrelevant?
He is truly psychotic, and may have other serious mental issues.
Would you let a man like this in your house? Walk your dog? Wouldn’t you tell your children to cross the street whenever they see him? No, no, and yes. I would encourage you all to treat him the same way here on TBP. He might never go away, but at least we can ignore him. A good start would be to not reply to his posts, and vote all his posts down. With God’s help, we just might extinguish this vermin from our midst.
Jeebus approves this message.
Hey Stucky,
Jesus thinks you reveal your self doubt too easily.
Jesus knows you know Jesus knows.
Sincerely,
Don’t be such an easily triggered little girl.
I love c.s Lewis,by the way
Countless books, countless study, countless time. Frankly, I’m embarrassed by it. I couldn’t today answer “to what end?”. Knowledge solely for knowledge’s sake is a waste of time. That’s one thing my old age has taught me.
Same here and may I share my conclusions after 40 years?
1) Read NO MORE theological tracts, read the words of the mystics, those who resonate with your deepest stirrings and who claim direct experience of that Great Unknowable we call God. You will find a power and a purpose that is completely foreign to the soul-deadening dialectic of theology. It will be like leaving a forest and stepping onto a plain with a vast expanse before you. Theology is mind games. Mystics’ words are their attempt to capture lightning in poor human language.
2) Use their words sparingly, as a fire starter but not the whole bonfire. Every mystic with any semblance of truth that I have discerned all say we must DIVE WITHIN. How? I believe it starts out simply. Observe what you think, what you do, why you behave as you do to see how conditioned we are by the world and our flaws. Then observe the world, how others behave, how they react. How animals interact, how the natural world adapts. It is the Great Handiwork but we bury our faces in books by guys like Paul rather than trusting our own minute-by-minute revelation of Truth. As someone once told me, “God nurtures a weed that grows through the crack of a sidewalk. Do you really think He is going to leave you on your own for this journey?”
Trust your highest instincts, take what you’ve learned so far and apply it to the small garden that has been placed before you to tend. ALL you need to know, ALL you need to learn or do is there waiting for your hand…which is just the Hand of God in potential.
These are the words of St. Joe Bob Dufflebag.
Dufflebag
I sure do hope that you stick around and post a lot more often!!
Most interesting thoughts. Which mystic would you recommend? Websites?
TIA
Try the Philokalia. Collection of the writings, over a period of 2000 years, of people who left the distractions of the world behind in order to meditate quietly as Joe Bob so eloquently described. They withdrew to live, work, and meditate in monasteries or to live as solitary hermits.
Why is it no surprise that Stukfuk would be all onboard for reading anything other than the Bible?
Mystics, really? I’m sure Zara is a fan.
I have a dufflebag too.
By the way, there is a book by Kenneth Gentry called “The Book of Revelation Made Easy,” if you’re interested. It’s is not based on Dispensationalism, but I would suggest Dispensationalist read it, to give you something else to consider. Then you can make up your own mind.
Stuck is a teacher, he isn’t going to make up his mind, he has an inborn need to keep questioning, keep learning and teaching, that is his calling, whether he likes it or not.
Actually, that invitation was more to Dispensationalists and non believers, rather than Stucky. I think Stucky shows he knows more than he admits.
I sometimes think it will be an implantable chip required to buy and sell. I think this is possible. However, after reading more and encountering “third strand DNA” several times and noting that research is apparently going on, it would not surprise me if that is it. You will probably think that is all nuts Stucky, that’s OK. Google “third strand DNA”, “Max Igan”, the CERN tunne opening ceremony (I saw the whole thing, it is truly hard to believe the Satanic symbolism in that elaborate ceremony) Plenty of rabbit holes to go down such as https://redpillinfowar.com/2017/06/30/transhumanism-and-the-genetics-of-the-mark-of-the-beast-corrupting-the-image-doug-hamp-full-lecture/ for but one of thousands of examples.
—
Just read your explanation and I get where you are coming from. I subscribe to the meaning for those then and those in the future. I literally just read revelation, the entire new testament with revelation again and then the books of Enoch. I do not come to the conclusion that all of it must have been achievable at that time of its writing. And so people debate this over the eons.
Just read Hondo’s comments and that could be the “enticement” with the third strand (eternal “life”), the transhumanist message certainly is being spread loudly over the last few years, aye?
Yep. See Norman and others are going where I was so I will go ahead and post this before reading more…
I’m looking forward to your comments, Stucky, on my analysis. Guess it will probably be tomorrow.
Good night.
Revision: Can’t get your name right.
It’s stukfuk.
It’s Stuckmeister, King of the TBP Shit Flinging Monkeys.
Answer to Q1: don’t care
After reading the article and skimming most comments, reading some
Answer to Q2: still don’t care
I will NEVER understand the need for some people to take the time and effort to add nothing to the conversation except “I don’t care.”
Who cares if you don’t care??
Do you think people say to themselves — “Self! My day is now complete knowing that Old Dog doesn’t care. I don’t know how I could continue posting without knowing that.”
Stucky,
In communication between people, if you ask a question don’t be shocked by any answer. Often times you may not get the answer you were looking for.
You asked two questions and I answered them honestly. Everybody is different, and some may say I am more different than most.
You could at least thank me for the respect I showed you by reading everything you wrote.
But you didn’t, so go piss up a rope. You can hope against hope that someone writes 666 on my forehead.
But repetition is a good thing, I don’t care.
PS You caught me on a very bad day. I am dealing with a serious health issue that my 89 year old father is going through right now, this coming on the heels of two evacuations from that bloody hurricane last week.
Peace out.
PPSS You can insult me any way you want and it will fall like a marshmallow against a steel plate. I have really thick skin because I have been trained by professionals.
OK. I tend to go overboard sometimes. I do apologize.
I also have a 90+ year old father. I think I understand your challenges. I hope it goes well for him, and you.
I’m sorry.
I just love this website. Nothing can beat it.
Rather than address similar posts individually …. this goes out to all the micro-chip folks.
The mark of the Beast will begin to be enforced halfway through the Antichrist’s seven-year rule, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
Half the population will already be dead. The ecosystem in ruins. Great wars. Books such as Late Great Planet Earth speculate nuclear wars. EMP nukes will wipe out all or most computer chips. Regyoulah nukes will wipe out communication equipment on land.
How will chips survive all that?
The first half of the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled by Jesus. He made the covenant with many. When it was broken with His crucifixion, the church age began. The time Paul refers to as the dispensation of the grace of God.
Jesus told Israel that He had come in His Father’s name and they did not receive Him. And that another will come in his own name and him they would receive. This will be the AC and when the great trib begins he begins to reign and enforce the mark and makes war with the saints and overcomes them. This will continue for 31/2 years ending with the battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus with the saints at His 2nd coming.
This is why Revelation only refers to 1260 days, 42 months, and time, times, and 1/2 a time in regard to the events of the tribulation.
Blessings:-}
AWB
You are the most hypersensitive piece of shit on this thread. Stunningly stupid, as well.
Theology??? Where in the fuck did I discuss that???
Vixen Vic merely asked Bondo Brain to examine a HISTORICAL document. Bondo gave a retarded response about Josephus and his (Bondo) faith. What a retard.
You two must be related. How sad yo momma must be for having spawned two brain dead worms.
Edwitness
Your response is theology from the book The Late Great Planet Earth.
Have you ever had an original thought, Mr. Parrot?
Blessings :-}
The Late Great Planet Earth does not teach that the tribulation period is 31/2 years. It also does not teach that Jesus made the covenant that was broken at 31/2 years with only the remaining 31/2 years being the great tribulation reserved for dealing with Israel. It also does not teach as I believe the “overspreading of abominations” of Daniel9 to be the continued sacrifices in the temple after Jesus’ death.
But, as I told you before, no one, not even you has had an original thought.
Bendiciones:-}
Stukfuk, once again attacking anyone who dares question your theology.
The irony is that you would call someone else a parrot.
That’s just bull. Don’t bielive any of it.
Stucky-You asked for a answer as to the MOTB. Some of the armchair bible scholars here have said that pertains to the long ago biblical times and not relevant to today. They did not make their case as to where in the bible the people of the earth were unable to buy and sell without a mark or what that (mark) actually was…….because I don’t know of any book of the bible that lays that out as happening in that time.
So, let’s speak of the here and now. RFID chips exist and have been in use for some time now. Some countries have already chipped citizens by the thousands, this is not just an American thing, it is global. Steps leading to biometric chipping have been in place for years such as chips in passports etc.
Stucky wonders how chips will survive the EMP and nukes if that is the actual mark of the beast. Because the EMP/Nuke attacks come BEFORE the mass chipping is required so you will be able to buy and sell. The number 666 is the number of a man (the antichrist) not a stamp on the forehead of humans. On my shortlist is Jared666 who’s number is 666 and has been sitting in the WH in a position of power for months. He is just creepy enough to play the role of the antichrist.
Perhaps some of you have seen the commercial where a guy goes through a store gathering items, mostly food, then proceeds to leave the store without paying and they say in the future there will be no check-out lines (as the chip reader will scan every item and charge your account). This is not something they are working on, it is technology that is in place and ready for the masses.
Vic says above that if we get to that point it is time to move to the boonies and barter with each other for the things we need. My question Vic, taxes are a fact and you will not be able to pay property tax without the MOTB/chip, so what land will millions of Christians live on bartering without paying taxes and people will want shelters in which to live? The property tax shakedown will not stop, there will be no healthcare services without the chip (book it) and you can bet that you won’t be able to barter a major surgery with a dozen eggs Vic.
You can poo-poo my answer Stucky, but it already exists, makes sense and is doable worldwide as the MOTB.
BL
I disagree with much — not all — of what you wrote.
I won’t poo-poo it at all. Hopefully, I’ll have time to respond later this evening.
This will be my last post on this thread until them. I don’t want to dominate today’s conversations any more than I already have. There are other worthy topics posted today.
That’s fine Stucky, bring it on.
If you can’t see the potential for the enslavement by the chipping of humanity then feel free to present your version of the MOTB, and for once give us an example instead of just telling us what the bible says. I could have just blathered on and on with bible verses but you asked us to ID/name the MOTB.
” … the EMP/Nuke attacks come BEFORE the mass chipping is required …” —- BL
You are actually advancing my argument. If EMPs hit BEFORE the “chipping is required” then the satellites will be toast. Ground communications infrastructure will be toast. So, tell me, exactly what will those chips be connected to??
——
I do not “wonder” about the MOTB. I covered that in my article. Did you even read it? The “mark” is not a physical thing. It is a symbolic thing, as is most of Revelation (except the beginning chapters and ending chapters).
What about God’s seal/mark? Do you know about it? It must be mentioned at least 50 times in the Bible. Look it up yourself, I don’t have time for spoon feeding. You will find that in each and every case it is symbolic. It is the same with MOTB.
———–
My other critics, simply refuse to answer the far lessor issue, but interesting logical aspects of MOTB; It’s a simple question.
1) ALL the Christians have already been raptured.
2) All that is left is a remnant of 144,000 Jews, now Christians, witnessing.
3) Their success is not that great.
4) I’m guessing 95% or more of the world is already following the Beast.
Soooo, WHY tattoo 95% of the people? This makes no sense.
To argue that nukes would be the end of our electronic prison is lame, me thinks you have been watching too much tv. Rest assured the ruling cabal will not lose their communications capability and they will reinstate ours within weeks, depending upon how much carnage they are hoping will happen.
OK, I’m done tonight.
Wow. I think Admin posted this around NINE O’CLOCK IN THE EVENING. 70 posts … in the evening! Wow.
Nice job everyone!! (Except the big dick who called me a Satan Worshipper!)
G’night.
Will be answering you in the morning,u.Stucky. later, depending on work schedule.
This topic and this thread remind me of why I stopped attending church.
I have so much work to do today and now this is going to be stuck in my head.
Thanks a lot.
Lol
I would have thought this to be right up your alley … you know, with BEASTS and all that.
Right? I have neglected my housekeeping duties, not put away the stuff from moving and I now need to get ready to go out for my anniversery to see Kenny Wayne Shepherd.
I can’t seem to help myself and this is the big debate between Christians that’s been going on for years with nothing really settled. There’s ways to come to what seems to be valid conclusions until you read another scholars seemingly valid conclusions, with scripture quotes and all to back them up. I’m not at all qualified. I’ll just stick to my core beliefs, you can’t get in trouble, that way. You know the ones that if you deny them, there is no way you can call yourself a follower of Christ.
Count the number of the Beast:
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A
R
I = 1
V = 5
S
F
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
D = 500
E
I = 1
____
666
the number of a man
Which is written on the triple tiered crown of the Pope for those who did not know that.
Hey Stucky,
Interesting post and some illuminating responses. Definitely not my field of expertise but something that is interesting to read and even more so when people who disagree discuss rather than act like ass hats. Makes it that much more engaging. Read pretty much all of it (responses) and think I might have learned a little bit so thanks. I’m with HSF though, based on at least one or two responses to you I am reminded of why I no longer walk through the doors of a church anymore unless it is a special occasion and my wife asks me to. If it wasn’t for her I wouldn’t darken the door of one. If the church is the bride of Christ someone is going to be some upset with us further down the road… you don’t treat ladies like that.
The church is the body of Christ. You are of the body. Israel is the bride.
“Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.” (1 Cor 12:27 ESV)
It’s OK, you can only go as far as you’ve been taught. Stukfuk is the absolutely worst kind of teacher, teaching lies for the truth. I’m not perfect, but I don’t intentionally set out to deceive, which all Stukfuk does. Then bashes anyone who dares to suggest he’s wrong, but not with scripture, just personal attacks.
You decide.
“but not with Scripture”
Bwahahahaha!!!! Let him who has eyes examine my post filled with Scripture, and let that determine who is a liar from the pits of hell. Satan must be your father, for he is the Father Of Lies.
——-
I bash no one merely for disagreeing with me. I have many friends here, such as, El Coyote, Gayle, KaD, and a host of others who do not share my views. I have said countless times that I have zero desire to convert anyone.
I only bash Dipshit Morans. And you meet that qualification many times over.
Blessings ;>}
Yeah, whatever moron. That’s just about the level of intelligent conversation anyone expects from you, except those who you’ve deceived with your lies.
You’re responding to a post in which I made a point, and then backed it up with scripture. I’ll go toe to toe with you any day of the week.
It won’t be a fair contest, but I’m done with those anyway.
Just as I suspected,
**crickets**
There, I up voted my own post.
” …. based on at least one or two responses to you I am reminded of why I no longer walk through the doors of a church anymore ”
Same here.
I’m the one who filed for divorce. At the time, I was still heavily involved with an evangelical church: twice on Sunday, prayer meeting on Wed., Bible studies at home, and teaching adult Sunday school. I was fully immersed, let me tell you.
That literally changed overnight after the filing. Dirty looks. Insulting comments. ALL my friends decided to un-friend me. I was asked to find another church.
But, I did not. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Thanks to haters/hypocrites like Ditchner and AWB, I never set foot in church again. Who needs their bullshit? Not me. Ever again.
Too many Christians would rather shoot their wounded, than comfort them.
“For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”
Hell hath no fury like a pussy scorned.
are you talking about yourself Ditch?
an old saying–
“Don’t judge Christianity by the people who call themselves Christians”–
Gandhi read the Bible every day. Asked why he had not become a Christian he said that if he had ever met one he would have become one.
We all need a lot of work.
Stucky
I was out last night so missed your post. I have enjoyed reading all the comments.
I want to respond to your description of your church experience. I too was divorced while the upright, very involved member of a church body. I was the responsible party in the divorce. Because my church was healthy (i.e. committed to following the teachings of Jesus) I was not shown judgment, only compassion (without being excused). I removed myself from that body to enable my ex to continue to worship there comfortably, but I continued attending church elsewhere, another body that was aware of my circumstances but again was gracious to me.
You experienced the worst kind of legalism and hypocrisy that only a bad church can bear as fruit. I believe this is one of the things Jesus was implying when he said in Matt. 7:21-23:
“Not every one that says to me , Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father, who is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not clearly prophesied in your name? And in your name cast out demons? And in your name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them I never knew you; depart from me, you that work iniquity.”
Both Old and New Testaments clearly teach that corporate worship is to be pursued by God’s people. It must be good for us if it is part of the Owner’s Manual. Man being man, however, will manage to screw it up in some instances. The OT prophets harped on this, and several of Paul’s letters deal with corrections that needed to be made in the earliest churches if they were to be aligned with the teachings of Christ. The entire book of Galations is a warning against the kind of legalism that your church exhibited. Your experience should not be mistaken as a confirmation that all Christian churches delight in damning people to hell.
As for Revelation, a book that has vexed theologians for centuries, I take away only a very few basic assumptions:
1. It is written so that people from all eras of church history can find hope. It is written to the seven churches, but nowhere is it implied to only those churches. They are representative of both the historical periods of church history and the types of churches that are characteristic of the entire church age.
2. Many prophecies in the book have not yet been fulfilled. At the end of the church age there will be a Satan-energized worldwide religion, economy, and government. We can see the overt attempts happening now to bring these into place. Cash is going away, a new economic system awaits the certain termination of the existing one, and geopolitical crises will be solved by bringing all nations under the authority of a sensible solution like the UN. For all of these to be put in place, I think the earth will still be functioning pretty well, so I think the worldwide conflagration comes after. That does not mean there won’t be a disturbing number of local conflicts and wars.
The current campaign to destroy Western Civ is part of the dynamic. Christianity has been the foundation for the pre-eminent culture of the world, and both the faith and its culture of freedom and individualism must go. I anticipate that the church is going to come under increasing pressure to conform to the dictates of the State, in whatever form it manifests. Currently, Christians are about the only group that popular culture can mock and condemn. I pray daily that Christians will be strengthening themselves for what is to come.
3. Israel will play a significant part in the events of the end. This is too extensive a subject to explore here, but you can be assured that Israel is not going away anytime soon.
4. Regarding what is called the Rapture, there are passages of Scripture that seem contradictory. All I know is, bad things are coming, and I do not believe the Church is going to be whisked away before it all starts coming down. However, the Bible teaches clearly that followers of Christ are not subject to God’s wrath. Revelation clearly describes times of God’s wrath being poured out on the unrepentant world. The church will not be subject to these episodes, either because it is removed or it is protected.
5. There is going to be a fierce fight between good and evil, pictured as the great battle of Armageddon. The good guys win.
6. There are judgments, accounts are settled, and the universe is relieved of evil. The details may all be allegorical.
That’s all I have time for right now.
Hi Gayle
The judgmental church folk was not THE reason I left the church. It was, as I noted, the “straw” that broke the camel’s back. I already had one foot out the door. The reasons aren’t important for this thread.
Regarding your thought on Revelation, I ask you to see my post to Bea. It’s about the four methods of interpreting Revelation. I am what is known as Preterist. The preterist view differs in several details you posted. I’ll leave it at that.?
I’m glad Admin was able to retrieve your post!
But.. But… If you are really a Preterist, then why did you pose the question about the MOAB? You were successful in starting a great discussion (your good goal, I know) but from your view, the mark has already occurred sometime in past history – so what happens next? Preterists interpret all of Rev as completed history. Has Jesus already returned? Or is he not returning in physical form? I don’t understand how Preterists reconcile their claims with the clearly unfulfilled promises in Revelation. It would make more sense to me to hear that Revelation is just the ravings of a crazy old man alone on an island, and the book shouldn’t even be in the Bible than to hear its claims are true and have already happened. I know for sure there are tears and death and sorrow that have not yet been wiped away.
“Preterists interpret all of Rev as completed history.” —- Gayle
Not true. There are clearly portions of Revelation that are in the future.
Still responding to Gayle ….
Preterism is never 100% pure in actual practice. Sometimes futurism creeps in, just as there is no pure futurist because preterism creeps in.
THAT is the nature of religious study. Few things are absolutely clear, and everything is debated.
That’s even true in preterism. It is NOT a monolithic system. Even they disagree with each other! I believe there are about TEN different flavors to choose from. Bunch of dweebs arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
— “Bunch of dweebs arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.”
We’ve replaced their regular dweebs with Stucky. Let’s see if they notice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-DwyV55GPo.
Anon- I think you are a futurist, good comment.
Don’t blame me for your degeneracy, and take some responsibility for yourself.
Well golly!
The bible eating turd is back ….. AFTER he vowed he’s done with me.
You know why he’s back?
I’M IN HIS HEAD!!
I’M IN HIS HEAD!!
I’M IN HIS HEAD!!
I’M IN HIS HEAD!!
Haha haha.
“Get lost Troll.” —- Jeebus, da Lawd
I was done with you when you used a Jew for Jews banner at the bottom of you MOTB post. Not one of your better ones, btw.
You’re the only turd eating troll, here. Get lost yourself. There, I said it.
Ha, I get it! I agree with you! Once your wounded like that in a church, why would you ever want to go back?
Shame on those stone thowers! As a post-abortive woman, many in the church think there is no forgiveness for us. But, never mind them. They are the prodigal son’s brother.
There is only one thing that sends someone to hell. That is trusting in a false god. Because we go with the god we trust in for all eternity. If you have trusted in Jesus you are forgiven and will enter heaven immediately after your last breat leaves your body. With no condemnation for anything you have ever done. This is available to all who will trust In Jesus.
Blessings:-}
What does Jesus gain if you trust in him? I can’t believe that people really think God gives a fuck if you praise it or not. Your God is very vain and insecure.
Why do you come to this site? Or visit with friends? To have interaction with others right? To express yourself and to have others express themselves to you. Perhaps to even express your love for them and them for you.
This is what the scriptures refer to as fellowship. It is the expression of the love God has for us and we have for God and each other. And it is what God has always desired to have with every person who has ever lived. This is why the Bible says God is love.
But, He wanted us to desire a relationship with Him as much as He desires one with us. So He gave every man the free will to choose whether to have that relationship or not. Most have chosen not to. But, that does not deter the love of God.
One day death came between God and man. In His love He came as a man to die a man’s death so that by His resurrection He would conquer death so we could be born spiritually so that death would no longer be able to separate us from Him. Because death can only touch what is natural. By this He continues to draw you to Himself so that one day you can be with Him in heaven forever. Where there is only love, joy, and peace in the Holy Spirit.
That’s what He gains from this. A relationship with you.
Blessings:-}
The seven churches of Revelation have repeated over history. Today we appear to be in the final “Laodicean” stage. Rich, yet lukewarm. No wonder so many abandon the churches. But, we are told to persevere. “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”
Evil thoughts in the mind, evil deed done with the hands.
To properly examine the topic one must take the long view. It makes perfect rational sense to say that Revelations was written in the first century about events of the first century and has no more relevance to events of today than the Iliad. It also is valid to stats how millions of believers over the last 2000 years have been sure that the Antichrist and end times had arrived and all of them have been wrong.
However, it seems odd to me that the Christianity and christians seem to be so reviled/persecuted by the establishment at this time. Why would christians be singled out in this way when the apocolyptic literature of our times (namely 1984 and Brave New World) suggest that all religion would be opposed/oppressed/outlawed. It’s easy to say that Christians are singled out because they are righteous or because the elite want it that way….but those are short term self-serving answers. I am asking why in a broad historical sense. Also, technology has changed the world more in the past few decades than all the millennia of Civilization that came before…allowing for a far more complex and larger system than ever before by orders of magnitude. All times are unique but he 21st century is the MOST unique of them all.
In other words, if, and that’s a huge if, there were to be a playing out of the apocolypse described in Revelations now would be a more likely time than any that have come before.
Drud
Christianity was born of nonviolent rebellion and nonconformity. It is no accident that Jesus was put to death because he offended the State (Rome) and the institutional corrupt religious system of the day. True Christians, by their very existence, are an affront to the State because they refuse to let the State be the object of their faith. May it always be so.
Drud
Anon above is me.
He was put to death because the people demanded it, the Roman governor would have nothing to do with it and washed his hands of the matter.
I am continually astounded by how much current political doctrine has adulterated Christian doctrine. In the near future, when proto-Conservatism finally becomes the prevailing attitude, Jesus will be regarded as a leftist who deserved to be put to death.
— “the Roman governor would have nothing to do with it and washed his hands of the matter.”
The absurdity of this claim is clear. To wash your hands of a matter is a specific claim as to your responsibility in the matter. You either say “I agree with the mob” or you say “I will defy the mob”… and you accept the outcome either way.
This holds true for all who report to you. If you choose to defy the mob and all who report to you agree with the mob, so mote it be. If you choose to agree with the mob and all who report to you wash their hands. So mote it be. If you choose to wash your hands and all those who report to you wash their hands and the mob kill an innocent. So mote it be.
You can never wash your hands.
I paraphrased and screwed it up. He said he would not have the blood on his hands, he was only complying with their wish. They agreed it would be on them so long as the Roman governor crucified the man.
You are right, razzie, I have to hang my head and admit that I forgot the story of Nathan and David. David took a poor man’s only lamb. Pilate crucified the lamb of God.
Pilate was put into the position most like us find ourselves in today. Deny and wash our hands hoping neutrality in the face of uncertainty will save us, or choose a side and accept the consequences.
razzle is a front for EC, or some other kind of fraudulent character. A true fact.
That was an excruciatingly pointless exchange to invoke pulling that lever of absurdity unless one is operating on the level of universal unity.
Are you God, anon?
I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together
Sounds like you’re 100% in for donating together to the Indentured Servant, Hillary, Huma, hotel 3some?
EC- That would be humorous if it were not so true.
With seven billion folks on the planet I keep having this funny feeling. God might summon Michael the Archangel and say, “The theater looks full so start the show.”
Perfect rational sense dors not apply to a bible discussion. I stopped reading your comment at that point.
If you had kept reading, you would have understood that Drud was not making that claim for himself, only referring to a common belief of others.
Hi Stucky,
I was going to skip the whole thing because I don’t know you well enough to know if you are serious or just messing with believers.
So it appears you are serious and so as I am trying to get organized after moving for the 3rd time in 3 months (long story) and I need to get a whole bunch of shit done before my very hardworking husband gets home, I need to come back to this, if it’s still going, maybe tomorrow. Is that a run on sentence?
In the mean time, you might find this guy interesting. I know I have been learning a lot from him in the past few weeks.
Umm, I think it has 13 parts and I have only had time to read 2 or 3 but it has helped confirm some things I have been suspicious of for quite some time.
Oh and I know people have been giving you links to things they think you should read/watch. Part 1 is pretty short, you can read it in probably 5 minutes or so. If it doesn’t grab your attention, then you haven’t lost much time.
“I was going to skip the whole thing because I don’t know you well enough to know if you are serious or just messing with believers.” —— Mary C.
I do both!! That’s the beauty of being Stucky.
That link looks terrific. Perused the site for a few minutes. I will definitely be giving that guy some of my time. Thank You.
“I do both!! That’s the beauty of being Stucky.”
Folks here would do well to understand that a foolish consistency can become a bore here. As soon as you get typecast, your done. I’m looking at you, YoBo.
But you’re very predictable?
razzie, We all are, if you looked at your cell tracking data, you will see the thick lines where you wander in circles nearest your location. But, by golly, YoBo has worn a deep trench here just covering the same ground day after day.
So wait… then we all are “done” as you said? I actually wouldn’t disagree with that… I’m mostly in the camp that we’re all experiencing why we are who we are, not deciding who we will be. It’s kind of predestination, but not really.
As to reliable repetition: Foucault’s pendulum wears a predictable trench day after day too, and it’s VERY meaningful. Patterns are patterns, not calling certain folks out on their patterns guarantees they’ll just keep doing them even more if there is any hope for change.
So I celebrate you shaming individuals engaged in absurdist group deniggeration regardless of the identity of the person doing the shaming or the target of their shame. However if I don’t detect equal attention, then I’m gonna have to assume you are personally biased.
It’s not absurdist but it does reach absurd proportions, at which point I must protest even though, at heart, I do not favor censorship, capisce, or as HF would say, get it?
For the record, Mr. Cilantro, there are no free speech classes studying your posts. That said, you’re definitely a bit racist, in a good way.
At the end of the day both you and I were sold by human traffickers upon our berth.
Stucky
Anon above is me. Sorry.
“… present your version of the MOTB, and for once give us an example instead of just telling us what the bible says” ——– BL
You say I post too much what the Bible says.
AWB says I never supply Scripture references.
I’m SO confused right now!!
—————————
The article talks about MOTB. Did you even read it?
Example? What are you talking about. I told you the Beast is human government under demonic rule. If you read the article, you would have known that.
Bea (and others, I suppose)
Rather than continue responding to the details of MOTB, I shall say a word about the root of our differences.
1. Your views are what is known as futurist. That is not an insult. It is one of four possible ways to interpret Revelation. Every one falls into one of the four categories. (Except, Dontgiveashitists.) There’s a brief description at the 3:20 mark in my respose to Vixen Vic. You should at least refresh your memory and read it. Takes 20 seconds. The category one picks WILL determine how they interpret all this.
2. One should be interested in the history of these various views. History teaches lessons. It illuminates truth. It helps us make informed decisions on how we got here . People who aren’t interested in the history of these views aren’t serious Bible students. Their attitude is “I made my choice. I have my views. I don’t care one whit about other viewpoints.”
———–
I’m not going into detail about all four options. I just want to make some brief points about Futurists.
1. Futurism is THE dominant belief in Christianity today. If one judges by available literature in a Christian bookstore, it’s over 95%. It wasn’t always like that.
2. Futurism is a recent systematic study of prophecy. For 1600 years the church held one of the other three viewpoints.
3. Futurism originated shortly AFTER the Reformation. It was a Catholic response to Protestant dogma. The Protestant theologians identified the Catholic Church as the Beast and the Pope as the Antichrist. Some highly respected Jesuit pries,t Francisco Riber, came up with a brand new concept; push out Revelation into the future, and personify the Beast, and make Antichrist some Jew from the middle east. How he did this is a study in horrible theology. Nevertheless, it worked to divide Catholics and Protestant even further. Protestants continued to hold one of the three other views. Futurism became a firm Catholic doctrine.
These are historical facts. Not, my opinion. You can read about the history of futurism below:
http://www.futurist-futurism.com/
4. Protestants embraced futurism in the 1830’s by a man named John Nelson Darby.
5. Pretty much everything modern day Christians (including you) believe about prophecy, and esp. Revelation can be attributed to Darby. He had unique and unusual ideas that eventually became (new) doctrine in the Christian church
—- He invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.
—- Prior to 1830 there was not one single church in America, or the Christian world, which taught this doctrine.
—- His teachings resulted in premillennialists, rapturists, dispensationalists and a host of other new complicated ideas
—- His teaching resulted in an onslaught of “date setters” that continue to this day.
—- He came to restore 1800 years of false teachings, he says, to teach “rediscovered truths.”
————————————————-
In favor of being a Preterist
1. It’s what the early church (50AD – 150AD) believed. What, you think they were futurists? Nope. They absolutely positively believed Jesus was going to return in THEIR lifetimes. This is so widely known to be true that even futurists, like Darby, acknowledge this.
2.The church fathers were all preterist; Clement, Justin Martyr, etc etc
3.
I got logged off, and now the edit button is missing. So, to finish my thoughts …
3. You need a PhD in logic to follow the convoluted trail of futurism, and the various iterations. Not to mention an advanced math degree to decipher all the dates. Preterist is simple, elegant, and original …. not a newfangled idea from the 1800s.
—————————-
Knowing even this brief history should show why there will never be agreement between the various schools. No one will ever convince the other by arguing over the details. We are starting out with different fundamentals right out the gate.
The only hope of reconciliation is to understand the historical origins of the four methods of interpreting prophecy.
For example, I was a futurist most of my evangelical existence. But, once I discovered that the early Christians were preterist, and that futurism was invented 1800 years later, I did the right thing and followed the truth.
Most interesting, to say the least – the original article, and even morseo, the comments.
I will make several Biblical and hermenuetical points.
Hebrews 10:25 is pretty specific about Church attendance. With the bickering Corinthians (I Cor. 11:19), Paul said there must be divisions, that the ones right might be proven over the false. That was specifically directed at the abuse of the Lord’s Supper, which could quickly open up a whole new can of worms. Having said that, one claiming the faith (in Spirit and truth is a whole other issue), will seek a Church that is faithful to the Gospel, and not “drop out.”
John’s Revelation must be considered in light of all of John’s writings, which mean the Gospel and Epistles bearing his name as well. A study of that, especially having to delve into the Greek to get the full gist of things John said, would keep most busy for several years. You will/should hopefully discover John’s “translation key” – which he applies in all his writings and especially Revelation, which makes it an open book to those who pay attention to the first three verses of the entire Book of Revelation.
666 is found in most of the manuscripts used as the Majority Text, but there were other manuscripts (found in the critical apparatus of Greek Bibles), which had it as 616. Scripture and Jesus, and thus His called and ordained Apostles, used a numerology, but one conditioned solely by the primary confession of the One Holy Faith, which rules out the wild guesses about this or that. Many of the heresies of the past were the false attempts to come to conclusions without the primary confession of the Faith. It is critically necessary to understand the often-figurative language of the book. The modern day chiliasts go off the rails (as did their counterparts in the first few centuries) at this point, and miss the next, most critical point.
The center of Scripture – the fulfillment of the Old Covenant (a more comprehensive term than “testament”), and the proclamation of the New Covenant, is predicated solely in the humiliation, suffering and death of the Christ – the Anointed One, and more specifically, the precise accomplishment of His death on the Cross in likewise precise terms. This is of critical importance to understanding the Revelation. The Old Covenant is not the authority, the New Covenant is, as it is the fulfillment of the Old. Hence, trying to interpret the New by the Old is a useless venture.
Since by Christ’s (the A and Ω) own words, Revelation is addressing the conclusion of time at its end, then John’s words cannot not be proven to have been fulfilled at any time past. Thus – Revelation is “unfolding time” to the reader(s).
One would do well, before attempting to “interpret” Revelation, especially in this 500th Anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation, to go learn in detail what the great “Sola’s” of doctrine in the Reformation were all about. They are subsumed in John’s opening words to the book. John understood them, and his Gospel and Epistles are, as if the Book of Revelation, filled with them.
Pax tecum – jb
Stucky
I posted a long rely to you about your experiences – and mine – with getting a divorce while being a pillar of the church. I also gave some detailed thoughts about Revelation. It was by Anonymous because of a glitch. I see it can not be found now, so I guess it is wandering somewhere in cyberspace. I am very sorry it is lost because I was hoping to hear your response. It was far too long to do over so I guess it wasn’t meant to be. Hopefully I can touch on the same topics another time.
Gayle, it’s probably lodged in the spam filter. Admin can retrieve it.
It was in the spam filter. I just released it.
Admin
How do you stay on top of everything?
Thank you so much for checking.
And thank you too, Zara.
The mark of the beast is the ash smudge left on your head and in your soul after partaking of the communion in Roman Catholic tradition. There is nor will be a middleman needed to counsel with God.
Anon- I find that answer very interesting BUT not all humans on Earth are Catholic or Methodists who take the ash mark. The mark must apply globally.
The matter of sealed by God and marked by the beast has drawn me back to the discussion. They both share similarities in that both imply ownership; the seal of the Holy Spirit implies indentification with Christ and the mark implies indentification with the beast. The difference however relates to the sealing by God is only known to God; Christians do not walk around with a big “C” on their forehead after becoming born again. The mark required by the beast carries with it a physical condition, buying and selling. This involves a third party who will need a physical mark to know if they can buy or sell to this person. In all the 50 or so sealings of God, there is never a physical requirement, as only the Lord can recognize the seal of the Holy Spirit on a believer.
On a personal note, I had to go through a divorce also and have been rung through the ringer of judgment and sideways glances. It seems most of the time, brothers and sister keep their judgements to themselves, but if one goes through a divorce, it is open season on you with very little mercy or compassion (or, it’s a dog eat dog world out there and I’m wearing milk bone underwear, hat tip cheers). It was a difficult time, but I was able to find grace even as I went through hell; I hope you have found the mercy and kindness offered by our Lord to help you go on in the faith.
Blessings!?
Chuck Girard sings “please don’t shoot the wounded”
Don’t shoot the wounded, they need us more than ever
They need our love no matter what it is they’ve done
Sometimes we just condemn them,
And don’t take time to hear their story
Don’t shoot the wounded, someday you might be one
It’s easy to love the people who are standing hard and fast
Pressing on to meet that higher calling
But the ones who might be struggling, we tend to judge too harshly
And refuse to try and catch them when they’re falling
We put people into boxes and we draw our hard conclusions
And when they do the things we know they should not do
We sometimes write them off as hopeless
And we throw them to the dogs
Our compassion and forgiveness sometimes seem in short supply
So I say…
Chorus
We can love them and forgive them
When their sin does not exceed our own
For we too have been down bumpy roads before
But when they commit offenses outside the boundaries we have set
We judge them in a word and we turn them out,
And we close the door
Myself I’ve been forgiven for so many awful things
I’ve been cleansed and washed and bathed so many times
That when I see a brother who has fallen from the way
I just can’t find the license to convict him of his crimes
So I say…
Chorus
That doesn’t mean we turn our heads when we see a brother sin
And pretend that what he’s doing is all right
But we must help him see his error, we must lead him to repent
Cry with those who cry, but bring their deeds into the light
For it’s the sick that need the doctor,
and it’s the lame that need the crutch
It’s the prodigal who needs the loving hand
For a man who’s in despair, there should be
Kindness from his friends
‘Lest he should forsake the fear of almighty God
And turn away
Thank you, the words of encouragement still comfort even though my trial was years ago; much appreciated!
Now I can thank Stucky for proving with his postings and the comments that theology has got to be the most tedious, futile and boring subject of study in a universe stuffed with tedious, futile and boring subjects.
Even more boring than your anti Joo posts?
Stucky- If you want me to play along with the futurist doctrine, then howz bout you put up in detail where the MOTB was EVER foisted upon the entire population of this planet at one time in past history where people were restricted from buying or selling without a mark……..you can’t. So THAT FACT must mean that it will happen in the future (if it ever happens), but for the sake of this discussion we will assume that it will happen some time in the FUTURE. If you CAN come up with historical facts that support your position I may agree with you.
[img
[/img]
God does truly live…
I have been in the presence of one of God’s angels Answering a question I pose to God a month or two before and that was in my thirties when the above happened I heard the choir of heaven once the angel disappeared it was very very loud…
when I was 16 a demon who was attached to my favourite aunt who she made clear she hated God with no ifs ands or buts…
The demon came after me and I was floating above the ground as attached to an invisible cross with my head turn to the left away from the demon and the hatred that spewed out of it was horrific…
The very next day my brother and I were involved in a head on car accident the foggy mist followed our vehicle until the accident had happened…
God lives in my heart and in my soul I give thanks and I pray for help and many times daily give thanks again…
God can live in you all as well… all you have to do is speak to him from a open heart and soul…
God lives…
Are any of you motherfuckers from planet Earth?
God damn Stucky, 172 comments already. You sure do know how to stir the shit…. A true talent, IMO.
I don’t believe in any of that kind of nonsense. While I don’t “know” thats its all nonsense, I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that believing in any of it is useful for anything other than a mental security blanket. But who knows. I try to keep an open mind, but I am very cynical and opinionated, so its difficult.
Ann Barnhardt (at 10:00 in the podcast) thinks that Mark Zuckerberg is a prime candidate to be the Antichrist:
speaking of crazy bitches…
Careful… I’ve invited Ann to live in a van by my pond for the tribulation times.
She probably won’t come since we are not Catholic. But, she’s welcome to come with her pretty pink AK and help keep the wolves out.
I’d stand behind Ann holding her AK in any fight! Only her Catholic views are crazy but she would say the same about us. Her opinions about Pope Marx, err Francis are spot on, though.
And no one can explain the OTC’s and CDO’s and all that crap to an idiot like me better than Ann!
May I? *trigger alert. Christian discussion, if you are easily triggered, please skip this post*.
As a Christian, we are called to stand for our beliefs even unto martyrdom, so it’s easy to see how non critical discussions about things like the MOTB can become so heated, as we somehow allow the uncritical to become a part of our critical belief system.
As brothers and sisters, we should practice our discussions according to the word of the song Stuckey shared; because we all are wounded in sin and should offer grace and acceptance of our differing opinions.
To those who are now triggered after having been warned, if what we discuss is nonsense or boring, why are you still reading? I generally stay away from atheist/agnostic discussions as I can add nothing helpful to the discussion and inserting my opinion about something I’m not, elevates me to troll status; why go there?
Yesterday there was a thread called “Loss of Willpower”–
it was a pic/quote by Alexander Solzhenitsyn–
to the west’s loss of willpower as a reason 4 our decline i would add that probably even more of a reason for our decline is the loss of religion among our population —
there is a reason islam is on the rise all over the world–
[img
?w=500&h=250[/img]
When children become convinced their ancestors were evil for trying to make the world they had any control over at all, aka their family and community, a better place than they currently experienced… it’s guaranteed their children will destroy everything.
I once read a Rabbi who uttered the same sentiment, razz. The Jews have a long and unbroken oral tradition in the history they have witnessed. It was in the context of why the Baby Boomers rebelled against the Greatest Generation. His answer: because the Boomers were left with nothing left to ‘fix’, and resented the tough-act-to-follow position they were in. He said the Jews, through the centuries, had seen it happen many times. Destructive rebellion comes in the following generation.
I can see a good Rabbi going down that path. There is some rabbinical knowledge that I’ve come to appreciate through the years. Much of it related to humbleness, and properly appreciating the environment you depend upon.
The Boomers were artificially told “We destroyed True Evil… CELEBRATE!”
Not only was what they destroyed not true evil, and uncomfortably close to their own personal world in all ways but outwardly identifying as such, but they were previously allied with something and then awkwardly immediately at war with them. I might start calling them the Doomer generation.
Stuck – thanks for keeping the monkeys amused. Wish I had interest in this stuff still, but it waned over 30 years ago.
Re the mark, I think it will simply be the digitization of money.