The Electric Car Upside . . .

Guest Post by Eric Peters

Is there any upside to electric cars?

In the interest of fairness, this question should be fairly answered. As is true of almost anything – Hitler did build the Autobhans, after all – you can find a few good things to say about electric cars . . . if you look long and hard enough – and don’t ask too many pesky follow-up questions.

The heat works immediately –

An electric car is like a mobile space heater, one of those little boxes you plug in at home or work to take the chill off the room you’re in. They make heat as soon as you turn them on – assuming there is current flowing. In a non-electric car, you have to wait for the engine to warm up first. This usually takes several minutes, at least, on a very cold day and in the meanwhile you stay cold.

On the other hand . . .

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The electric car’s electrically powered heater uses power directly to make heat – just as a home/office space heater does – while heat in a non-electric car is a free perk of internal combustion that makes use of the heat produced by the engine as a waste product. It does not cost you energy to  turn the heat on in an IC-engined car; you won’t use more gas to keep the heat on – even at full blast – and your range won’t be reduced.

Use of the heat in an electric car will do both those things.

Electric motors produce immense toque, immediately –

Torque is a measure of twisting energy and electric motors produce that in abundance relative to a combustion engine. Also, their massive torque output is available sooner and more directly because most electric cars are direct drive – meaning the electric motor directly turns the wheels, without the power having to be transmuted from up and down energy to rotational energy (at the crankshaft) and then transmitted via a transmission to the drive wheels.

Right-now power may be the electric car’s strongest card. The electric motor in the Tesla Model S makes in excess of 900 ft.-lbs. of torque and the car is capable of a ballistic 2.4 second run to 60 MPH. For reference, an internal combustion-powered supercar such as the 2018 Mercedes AMG S 63 sedan maxes out at 664 ft.-lbs. of torque and can’t keep up with the Tesla in a straight-up drag race.

On the other hand . . .

Energy – whether in the from of electricity or gasoline – which is transmuted into power – is limited by the amount you have available. The more power you use, the less energy you have left – whether in the gas tank or the battery pack. But the energy in a non-electric car’s gas tank can replenished in minutes while putting energy back into an electric car’s battery pack takes the better part of an hour, at the least  . . . if one can find a high-voltage “fast” charger. And using the “fast” charger, the battery pack can only be partially recharged – to about 80 percent of capacity –  in order to avoid damaging it. To recover a full charge – the equivalent of a full tank – takes hours of slow charging.

A gas-engined supercar might not be fuel-efficient, but it isn’t wasteful  . . . of time. And what good is an electric supercar that’s very quick, but which makes you wait for hours?

Simplicity –

An electric car is fundamentally simple vs. an IC-engined car – in the same way that a jet airplane is simpler, in terms of its mechanicals, than a piston-engined airplane. The electric car’s drivetrain – like the jet engine vs. a reciprocating piston engine – has fewer moving parts than a car with an internal combustion engine. For example, there is usually no transmission as an intermediary between the electric motor and the wheels, which are turned directly by the electric motor. And of course the electric motor doesn’t have pistons or valves or fuel injectors or a radiator that clogs up and never requires oil and filter changes – so you will spend less on routine maintenance.

On the other hand . . .

To make electric cars appealing as well as plausibly practical, it has been necessary to sex them up with powerful motors and battery packs as well as lots of peripheral gadgets. This has made them expensive to buy. Which means that what you didn’t spend on maintaining the car you spent on the car itself.

Electricity is cheaper than gas –

EVs got a big boost when the cost of gasoline almost doubled a few years ago; plugging in was seen – and was – cheaper than filling up. This is probably still true today. Especially since one can still take advantage of free electricity at public charge stations that do not charge you anything to plug in (this is subsidized by the government in order to increase the appeal of electric cars and so get more people driving them – which is what the government wants).

There is also the convenience factor. It’s handy to be able to “gas up” at home.

On the other hand . . .

If electric cars become mainstream cars – as the government is hoping they do – it will mean much greater demand for electricity, which will inevitably mean higher prices. And not only because supply and demand but also because it will be necessary to add to the grid infrastructure – build new utility plants – in order to meet the increased demand. This will have to be paid for – and will be paid for in the form of higher utility bills.

Also, there are certain to be new taxes on electricity – to replace the revenue lost on motor fuels taxes, which are used to pay for the roads. Which electric cars will use – and wear out – just the same as cars powered by internal combustion engines.

Electricity only seems like a good deal vs. gasoline at the moment – because there is no electric analog to the roughly 50 cents per gallon folded into the cost of every gallon of gasoline. Fold an equivalent tax into the kilowatt-hour price of electricity and the math changes pretty abruptly – and that’s without taking into account the infrastructure cost of building all those new utility plants to meet the upticked demand of millions of electric cars hooked to the grid.

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29 Comments
marblenecltr
marblenecltr
December 13, 2017 2:45 pm

Some questions:
When the batteries wear out, is there fading of power, or does the car stop very quickly?
Would it not be a good idea to have sound created for the safety of pedestrians, especially children in cities with parked vehicles?
What will landfills or approved battery disposal sites be like after some time of common electrical power for automobiles? And what would be the extent and nature of the pollution?
What would be the availability and peak life of the lithium or any other source of energy? Don’t try to fool me with the dinosaur story, I heard this morning that they were not really the source of petroleum, and that the Sinclair people had been lying with their logo of the dinosaur.
Could we see a standardization and interchangeability of batteries so that they could be exchanged at stations across the country for recharging and quick resumption of travel for motorists? I don’t recall where I saw this bit, but there was a presentation of a battery-operated car stopping for battery replacement. As the trunk, hood, doors, maybe even the glove compartment were opened, thousands of AA cells spilled out for recharging or replacement.

Iconoclast421
Iconoclast421
  marblenecltr
December 13, 2017 3:02 pm

Many people have suggested the idea of a standardized swappable battery, Shai Agassi comes to mind. This is a response I posted 8 years ago on my blog:

I’ve thought about that and I do think it is a good idea at first glance. Simple and elegant. It would benefit the auto industry greatly if we had a standardized form factor for batteries so that they can be swapped out at any gas station for a freshly charged battery in under 3 minutes. You just pay the core deposit for your first battery. The problem is that the service fee for changing the battery is bound to be larger than the equivalent amount of gasoline represented by the charge in the battery. Especially if we’re talking about using robots that no doubt will cost hundreds of barrels of oil equivalents to design, build, deploy, and maintain. In order for it to work it has to be so simple that you could literally open the hood, pull the battery out, set it on a rack and grab a new one and drop it in and swipe your credit card and go. If its any more complicated than that it cant increase overall energy efficiency in the economy. But the problem is that if the battery were small and light enough for an average person to easily service, then we probably wouldnt need to be thinking about using easily serviceable batteries. 20 years from now, we MIGHT have a 20 lb battery that can push a 2000 lb car 30 miles. But even 20 years from now it is likely to cost 5-10 times more than a 200 lb battery that can take you 30 miles. So its a great idea, but is unfortunately unworkable.

http://anythingexceptthetruth.blogspot.com/2009/04/prosperity-and-decline.html

Anonymous
Anonymous
December 13, 2017 3:09 pm

The only drawback to electrics is the batteries, the same drawback the Baker faced.

Since development of small vehicle sized fuel cells is always a highly criticized suggestion, I’d like to suggest that we develop small vehicle sized nuclear power plants instead.

No charging time to deal with, huge energy capacity making unlimited length trips at any speed fully viable, and with the ability to make them as a standardized module that can be moved from vehicle to vehicle new cars would cost much less than now when you have to buy the batteries and all along with the vehicle.

Another plus, no charging stations needed.

Nukes for cars, it’s the only answer.

(other than fuel cells)

Iconoclast421
Iconoclast421
  Anonymous
December 13, 2017 3:16 pm

If we actually made the investments in thorium that we should have 40 years ago, there probably would be thousands of thorium powered cars on the road today. They’d still be expensive as hell, but at least it would be a vector towards a better future that is simply unavailable now due solely to past stupidity.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Iconoclast421
December 13, 2017 7:20 pm
starfcker
starfcker
December 13, 2017 3:18 pm

Eric Peters is an asshole and a liar.

Every “problem” he talks about will be solved with the next model year. There isn’t a better car currently in the world today. That EP asshole refuses to believe the car is GREEN and will save billions of gallons of oil annually. The 2019 model, according to Elon Musk, won’t even need batteries. It will run on bitcoin.

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
  starfcker
December 13, 2017 5:39 pm

star…………..
I have respect for E. Peters and I look forward to his articles.

Starfckr
Starfckr
  starfcker
December 13, 2017 5:53 pm

Also, if a cop pulls you over in your gasoline car and you don’t follow his orders fully, he has every right to shoot you dead. He can’t pull over a Tesla because it accelerates too quickly.

starfcker
starfcker
  Starfckr
December 13, 2017 11:27 pm

Ouch. 2 dopples in one article. Let’s look at the biggest advantage a Tesla offers to the urban consumer. Your wife never has to get out of the car at a gas station. Go to bed fellows, get some rest. Tomorrow it’s war

Stucky
Stucky
  starfcker
December 13, 2017 11:55 pm

Yeah, but the dirty rotten Doppler, heh heh, who said the next Tesla will run on bitcoin was pretty funny AND “you” got five thumbs up!!

starfcker
starfcker
  Stucky
December 14, 2017 12:18 am

You know how it is, Stucky. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I always love it when newbies come in and complain about this or that. They just don’t get it. You can just say raccoon or yorkie or Tesla and everybody knows who the butt of the joke is. It’s fucking hilarious

BL
BL
  starfcker
December 14, 2017 12:29 am

Star- Just for the record ,I can’t take credit for that dopple even though the doppler and I have a close resemblance.

starfcker
starfcker
  BL
December 14, 2017 12:42 am

Bea, not everybody has a sense of humor. Payback is a bitch. But it’s funny. Every time I fuck with someone I know I’m toast somewhere up the road. And I almost look forward to it. Because it’s funny. My dopples are pretty transparent. I don’t know how to change the little purple thing, nor would I bother. And I expect retaliation. Part of the deal.

Smoke Jensen
Smoke Jensen
  Starfckr
December 13, 2017 11:35 pm

A Tesla still can’t outrun a radio and the batteries will die. A real tortoise and hare scenario.

Smoke Jensen
Smoke Jensen
  starfcker
December 13, 2017 11:37 pm

Starfkr, They should be called coal burning cars. all they’re doing is shifting the fuel SOURCE.

22winmag - ZH refugee who just couldn't take the avalanche of damn-near-hourly Bitcoin and doom porn stories
22winmag - ZH refugee who just couldn't take the avalanche of damn-near-hourly Bitcoin and doom porn stories
  starfcker
December 14, 2017 6:09 am

Eric isn’t a liar, he just doesn’t understand that a skilled driver in a heavyweight rear-drive Lincoln (for example) can match or even outdrive the typical front-drive car in a snowstorm.

surfaddict
surfaddict
December 13, 2017 3:22 pm

you didn’t finish…lets do the math for kilowatt per mile taxes required to make up for losing all gasoline taxes. I bet the answer is unpalatable/scary

Longtimber
Longtimber
December 13, 2017 3:44 pm

10 gallons of Petro in your Tiger Tank- how many go out the Radiator as heat?
What’s an unnecessary Break job cost? Warren Buffet bets on the Future with BYD.
http://chinaautoweb.com/electric-cars/

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
  Longtimber
December 13, 2017 5:36 pm

Long:
Can’t wait for you to buy a replacement battery pack and then you won’t be concerned about heat loss to radiator.

“What’s an unnecessary Break job cost?”
Well, if your Brakes actually Break, then I would submit that it would be a necessary repair if you wanted to drive the vehicle again.

Tennessee Budd
Tennessee Budd

Valid assessment of a “Break job”.
I’m still wondering about “Autobhans”. Are they–sorry, tehy–where Ghandi and Buddah drive on their–I mean, teihr–vacations?

C1ue
C1ue
December 13, 2017 4:32 pm

Points are valid except the simplicity part.
Electric motors are *not* simple to operate. The number of moving parts is less, but the delicacy is far higher. Damage to these parts is also far harder to repair – though to be fair most “service” these days is pull and repair anyway.
However, expertise to diagnose and repaid such problems is also non trivial. Most auto mechanics ate not going to be familiar with electrical drive systems, much less the completely non OBD diagnostic systems in an electric vehicle.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  C1ue
December 13, 2017 7:26 pm

I use electric motors in all sorts of projects and have installed very large industrial ones.

I’d far, far, far rather face the “complexity” and deal with the almost indestructible “delicacy” of an electric motor, AC or DC, any day of the week instead of, say, installing a gasoline engine to run my drill press or milling machine.

Dave
Dave
December 13, 2017 5:24 pm

When they put in the flux capacitor, I’ll consider buying.

Anonymous
Anonymous
December 13, 2017 6:43 pm

Why don’t we just jump straight to dilithium crystals?

Dave
Dave
  Anonymous
December 13, 2017 8:04 pm

Isn’t there a warp speed limit?

Lloyd Richards
Lloyd Richards
December 13, 2017 7:36 pm

This article conveniently leaves out a lot. As far as electrical usage, electric cars will be very important and useful for the power grids in that collectively they will act as the equivalent of a huge battery storage for alternative energy such as wind power produced at night and solar during the day. If you’re in a warm climate or during the summer months, the heater is not an issue. Regarding torque, using energy that takes time to replace, that’s simply not true in a practical sense. You’ll still be charging up when you’re not using the vehicle, such as over-night. And what about plug-in hybrids, which have the best of both worlds? This article is clearly biased against electric vehicles. It’s a case of the horse and carriage driver listing all the impractical things about the internal combustion machine.
I remember similarly framed arguments about why LED light bulbs will never be practical.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
  Lloyd Richards
December 13, 2017 10:15 pm

I agree 100%. My Prius Plug-in has cut my gas bill by 70%. And as long as you remember to plug it in, the first 10 or so miles can be all EV. I don’t notice charging the car on my elec bill.

Iconoclast421
Iconoclast421
  Lloyd Richards
December 14, 2017 12:34 am

I loathe these tired naive arguments. LED light bulbs dont have massive government malfeasances standing in the way of adoption. And they dont have greedy goddam bastards like Musk also standing in the way like a frickin fallen tree in the road. Just thinking of the success of LED bulbs and HDTVs and cell phones and all these things only fuels my hate of government and these disgusting parasites like Musk who suck off it and block the free market from functioning. Were it not for this filth we might actually have decent $15000 electric car models on the market. At the right price they make a lot of sense. But as they are now you just are not getting what you pay for (absent the subsidy). All these bullshit stories about how much you save on gas are just bullshit. I’ve done the math. If you simply paid less for the gas powered car then you’d have more money left to buy fuel. If you finance the car then the added interest you save is equivalent to free gas. Every additional $1000 financed at 6% is 2-4 months worth of gasoline in an economy car. It’s just a bullshit scam that barely even holds with the massive subsidy. And it is that subsidy that has held back the market for more than a decade now.

22winmag - ZH refugee who just couldn't take the avalanche of damn-near-hourly Bitcoin and doom porn stories
22winmag - ZH refugee who just couldn't take the avalanche of damn-near-hourly Bitcoin and doom porn stories
December 14, 2017 7:00 am

I listened to a TESLA/Musk/Stock Market puff-piece on an AM radio finance program before coming to this particularly odorous Eric Peters EV vs gas article. Without billions up billions invested in protected industries, electric remains an exotic toy or a niche market at best.

Now I’d like to hack up that hairball.