What exactly is “Payroll” tax and how is it different from “Individual Income” tax? Is it the money they take out for Social Security, Medicare, etc? If so, I’m not sure it makes sense to put it on the same chart.
That’s the reason the article is called “interpret this chart”. You can see right away that Employer Taxes (including Social Security, Medicare..) have increased while corporate taxes have decreased or have taken a lesser role in the source of revenue.
The chart doesn’t say any taxes have increased, rather it shows the increasing reliance on employers and individuals in favor of corporations.
This chart helps explain why employers turn to illegal workers or foreign workers accepting lower pay to reduce their tax burden.
EC
Corporations do not pay taxes. ONLY individuals do. Whether through lower employee pay, higher prices for goods, or some other mechanism, corporate taxes are ALWAYS passed onto individuals. The bigger problem is that the worthless federal government, by whatever mechanism, is STEALING countless trillions in wealth from our society (not including the hidden tax of inflation which has extracted trillions more since the worthless Federal Reserve was put in place).
wholy1
December 20, 2017 2:23 pm
“System D”, Folks – from inland rural locations of PRODUCTIVE People collaborating/trading DIRECTLY “1-2-1”. The gov-agent third-party “middle[NOT]men”, academic cry-bullies, media “disinfo-tainers”, financier/trader parasites contribute NUTH’N REAL productivity.
Sounds like Protocol VI of the Learned Elders of Zion.
It’s been called a “forgery” and a “hoax” for over a century, but never is it debated or argued against, especially how it actually fits world events.
But what do I know, I’m just a stupid goy that reads and notices patterns….
CCRider
December 20, 2017 2:23 pm
My conclusion is that these rapacious pricks in d.c. lay claim to every last cent earned by every soul in this country. Then, once every generation or so they sprinkle back some tiny (borrowed) portion of it and crow about how lucky we all are for having them as overlords.
BTW, if stealing less money from us will make the markets boom what do you suppose would happen to the economy if they got nothing? And I mean that-ZILTCH. The Garden of Eden perhaps?
Vote, my ass.
BB
December 20, 2017 2:35 pm
It’s is my Understanding the tax system was created to pay the interest on this debt ( money ) created out of thin air.Most if not all the interest goes right into the pockets of the Already Wealthy Families that own the Federal Reserve & the Banks on Wall Street. Over 500 billion a year.Think about that.If i understand this fraud / scam / Crime correctly ?????Pls let me know if I am wrong.
You need to borrow more or have someone else borrow in order for the ponzi to function. This is why deflation causes such destruction under the current structure.
22winmag - ZH refugee who just couldn't take the avalanche of damn-near-hourly Bitcoin and doom porn stories
Anon- NO I iz not!! Reading through this thread, many comments said the same thing, I just chose to use my best kneegrow slave jargon to express it short and sweet. Now fuck off….
Hoboken411
December 20, 2017 2:50 pm
My interpretation: NOTHING CHANGES.
Stubb
December 20, 2017 3:02 pm
It looks like an average of 180% to 190% of total taxes have been collected yearly since 1945. Excise, estate and other taxes along with individual income taxes have averaged out with small variances but payroll taxes have increased in order to make up for decreasing corporate income taxes.
Wrong answer. Payroll taxes up reflect huge increases to SS and Medicare payouts. They need to be much higher still, or costs need to be slashed.
Solon's 2nd Friend
December 20, 2017 3:14 pm
Slowly, over time, the federal income stream has trended away from relying on capital taxes and toward labor taxes. The new tax bill will continue and reinforce this trend.
Because the chart reflects percentage, rather than nominal amounts, it’s immaterial whether the budget is cut or not. So, even if your position is that the federal government has no right to collect taxes, this means the states must step in to provide the same set of services. Thus, the same lobbyists would simply change their focus onto state legislatures and create a similar scenario. Many would argue they already have, and state-level finances reflect that fact.
Why must government provide these services in the first place??? Indeed, there are things that need to get done, but by allowing the decision of WHAT must be done to stay in the hands of the criminals in government, we get what THEY want, not what WE want. When I walk into a supermarket, what is available is the collective summary of what WE want, not what politicians want (with some exceptions). The marketplace can and WILL provide the services society needs in the same way it provides the goods we need. We will certainly pay, but we will pay FAR LESS, get far better service, far better accountability, and failures will go away, rather than (like the government monopoly skools), demand more, fail more, and never go away.
rhs jr
December 20, 2017 3:51 pm
The Welfare (esp Medicaid) & Warfare (NeoCons) are destroying the Productive Class (the Golden Goose). Remove the bad Banksters (the Federal Reserve) and that will deflate the Beast; reform Welfare down to “widows & orphans” who require assistance; and reestablish America’s Traditional Roots.
Llpoh
December 20, 2017 4:51 pm
Ok, I will play. That payroll tax percentage is up, income taxes flat indicates that the “rich” are paying almost all the income taxes, topping out their payroll,tax payments, while the “poor” contribute heavily to payroll taxes. That corporate taxes are down reflects the drop in rates in the 1980s. The increased payroll taxes dilutes the corporate percentage further, as it also does the income tax as well as excise tax figures. Income and corporate taxes relative to one another have remained relatively unchanged since the 1980s. Payroll tax rates have increased 50% since 1970.
So, the major impact seen above has been the increased payroll tax rate and the reduced corp tax rate.
Zarathustra
December 20, 2017 4:58 pm
So the payroll tax has been used as a slush fund to mask the real debts this govt has been accumulating for a century.
Exactly, LLPOH. They have hidden in plain sight the fact that they are not serious about paying down the public debt. It’s like all drama you get when you catch your GF cheating on you, no – wait, it’s all the bullshit you get when your GF is cheating on you and you don’t have a clue, yet the signs are all there.
EC
Paying off, say, 20 trillion of public debt eliminates 20 trillion from the money supply and the economy as it -the money in circulation that debt created- no longer exists after being paid off.
Masked men, women. Masking red tape. Masquerade ballin’ from hi to lo to hi. Masque of the red (ink) death. Damascus blades in most all hands & in most all backs. Perversity & stupidity & dishonesty & other synonyms.
Zarathustra
December 20, 2017 5:05 pm
It was until about 1980 or so.
AC
December 20, 2017 6:32 pm
The chart means the Neocons will soon tell us that the corporate and estate rates are still too high?
Iska Waran
December 20, 2017 6:34 pm
My take is that we could sock it to corporations and have high nominal personal income tax rates back in the ’50’s when we were the only industrialized country not decimated by WWII. Now that we have to compete with other countries, with money and production being fungible, we can’t get away with confiscatory nominal tax rates the way we did in the 1950’s – no matter how much lefties wish we could.
Fulton
December 20, 2017 6:58 pm
The chart clearly shows the tax burden has shifted from corporations to workers. Are you guys DENSE?
Boat Guy
December 20, 2017 8:00 pm
The tax bill for average people will not be impacted enough to do anything significant . Considering that our president and congressional bozo’s think $175,000 is a middle class salary , obviously they are clueless about the cost of living , the employment oppurtunities and the salary offers after all 30 hours at $15 bucks per hour is considered full time ! Wow what a deal , never fear the plan will trickle down prosperity like always . As average Americans get pissed on by the circle jerk that is Wall Street to K-Street to Capitol Street the insider bunch will tell the outsider bunch we should thank them for the rain .
As a strong advocate for skilled labor that should earn a master craftsman’s wages and benefits it is my duty to inform all such is not the case . Yes there are pockets of prosperity and some successes to be pointed too just not in the significant numbers that will Make America Great Again !
The industrial might that could do that has been left to rust rot or make way for condos and casinos . The people that would be training the next generation and producing products and equipment were thrown overboard 40 to 50 years ago and now there are to few to train and no place to do it and the circle jerk couldn’t care less !
MrLiberty
December 20, 2017 9:51 pm
Conclusion: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GO!!!
nkit
December 20, 2017 10:09 pm
Pretty obvious that the graph says that the Keep TBP Fighting meter is short just a bit short with less than 2 weeks to go.. It is the Holiday season…
22winmag - ZH refugee who just couldn't take the avalanche of damn-near-hourly Bitcoin and doom porn stories
December 21, 2017 4:49 am
Payroll tax didn’t “go up”… it exploded 4-5x while other taxes shrank or stayed flat.
Seeing as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicare Part D (the drug “benefit”) were unsustainable from the start (and basically nothing but vote-buying schemes by both democrats AND republicans), it is of little wonder that payroll taxes have been increased. And even with that, USDebtclock.org still estimates a total of over $44TRILLION in unfunded liabilities for these programs as of this moment.
flash
December 21, 2017 5:30 am
Corporations people too.
[img[/img]
Mike Moore
December 21, 2017 9:59 am
Long time lurker, first time commenter; this site is my ‘go to’ every day. Some of the regulars here seem like old friends after I’ve watched them develop as “persons” over literally years through their dropped breadcrumbs of personal information. Stuckey, Llpoh, HSF, Maggie; all people I know perhaps better than I know some of the people in the small town I call home. Regarding the comments about the latest tax scam from the swamp, please correct me if I’m wrong but I have long thought that taxes on businesses were part of the cost side of the ledger which have to either be passed through to the customer, or serve to reduce profits(which I think is why the business exists) so either the cost to the customer goes up or the business goes down. Since in the end only people pay taxes, might we all be better off to stop the BS of corporate tax collection and pass-through in the name of real clarity?
Anonymous
December 21, 2017 10:07 am
dropped breadcrumbs of personal information
That’s a cold way of putting it. Try keeping all that hidden and what you end up with is a YoBo or Andrea Irajihadist. I keep my cards close to the vest and fly under the radar. I should be more forthcoming so I can develop as a person but it’s hard to be so open, especially with critics like Infidel out there.
EC
What exactly is “Payroll” tax and how is it different from “Individual Income” tax? Is it the money they take out for Social Security, Medicare, etc? If so, I’m not sure it makes sense to put it on the same chart.
That’s the reason the article is called “interpret this chart”. You can see right away that Employer Taxes (including Social Security, Medicare..) have increased while corporate taxes have decreased or have taken a lesser role in the source of revenue.
The chart doesn’t say any taxes have increased, rather it shows the increasing reliance on employers and individuals in favor of corporations.
This chart helps explain why employers turn to illegal workers or foreign workers accepting lower pay to reduce their tax burden.
EC
Corporations do not pay taxes. ONLY individuals do. Whether through lower employee pay, higher prices for goods, or some other mechanism, corporate taxes are ALWAYS passed onto individuals. The bigger problem is that the worthless federal government, by whatever mechanism, is STEALING countless trillions in wealth from our society (not including the hidden tax of inflation which has extracted trillions more since the worthless Federal Reserve was put in place).
“System D”, Folks – from inland rural locations of PRODUCTIVE People collaborating/trading DIRECTLY “1-2-1”. The gov-agent third-party “middle[NOT]men”, academic cry-bullies, media “disinfo-tainers”, financier/trader parasites contribute NUTH’N REAL productivity.
Sounds like Protocol VI of the Learned Elders of Zion.
It’s been called a “forgery” and a “hoax” for over a century, but never is it debated or argued against, especially how it actually fits world events.
But what do I know, I’m just a stupid goy that reads and notices patterns….
My conclusion is that these rapacious pricks in d.c. lay claim to every last cent earned by every soul in this country. Then, once every generation or so they sprinkle back some tiny (borrowed) portion of it and crow about how lucky we all are for having them as overlords.
BTW, if stealing less money from us will make the markets boom what do you suppose would happen to the economy if they got nothing? And I mean that-ZILTCH. The Garden of Eden perhaps?
Vote, my ass.
It’s is my Understanding the tax system was created to pay the interest on this debt ( money ) created out of thin air.Most if not all the interest goes right into the pockets of the Already Wealthy Families that own the Federal Reserve & the Banks on Wall Street. Over 500 billion a year.Think about that.If i understand this fraud / scam / Crime correctly ?????Pls let me know if I am wrong.
If you borrow the only $100 in existence, and need to pay back $106, how does that work out?
You need to borrow more or have someone else borrow in order for the ponzi to function. This is why deflation causes such destruction under the current structure.
If by $100 you mean Federal Reserve Notes, they’ll just print an additional $1,000,000 while you sleep.
The $6 should be easy to come up with.
Borrow more.
This ocean is deep. But it ain’t blue.
We iz tax slaves and da corporations don’t pay shit on day profits.
yo iz dum.
Anon- NO I iz not!! Reading through this thread, many comments said the same thing, I just chose to use my best kneegrow slave jargon to express it short and sweet. Now fuck off….
My interpretation: NOTHING CHANGES.
It looks like an average of 180% to 190% of total taxes have been collected yearly since 1945. Excise, estate and other taxes along with individual income taxes have averaged out with small variances but payroll taxes have increased in order to make up for decreasing corporate income taxes.
Wrong answer. Payroll taxes up reflect huge increases to SS and Medicare payouts. They need to be much higher still, or costs need to be slashed.
Slowly, over time, the federal income stream has trended away from relying on capital taxes and toward labor taxes. The new tax bill will continue and reinforce this trend.
Because the chart reflects percentage, rather than nominal amounts, it’s immaterial whether the budget is cut or not. So, even if your position is that the federal government has no right to collect taxes, this means the states must step in to provide the same set of services. Thus, the same lobbyists would simply change their focus onto state legislatures and create a similar scenario. Many would argue they already have, and state-level finances reflect that fact.
Why must government provide these services in the first place??? Indeed, there are things that need to get done, but by allowing the decision of WHAT must be done to stay in the hands of the criminals in government, we get what THEY want, not what WE want. When I walk into a supermarket, what is available is the collective summary of what WE want, not what politicians want (with some exceptions). The marketplace can and WILL provide the services society needs in the same way it provides the goods we need. We will certainly pay, but we will pay FAR LESS, get far better service, far better accountability, and failures will go away, rather than (like the government monopoly skools), demand more, fail more, and never go away.
The Welfare (esp Medicaid) & Warfare (NeoCons) are destroying the Productive Class (the Golden Goose). Remove the bad Banksters (the Federal Reserve) and that will deflate the Beast; reform Welfare down to “widows & orphans” who require assistance; and reestablish America’s Traditional Roots.
Ok, I will play. That payroll tax percentage is up, income taxes flat indicates that the “rich” are paying almost all the income taxes, topping out their payroll,tax payments, while the “poor” contribute heavily to payroll taxes. That corporate taxes are down reflects the drop in rates in the 1980s. The increased payroll taxes dilutes the corporate percentage further, as it also does the income tax as well as excise tax figures. Income and corporate taxes relative to one another have remained relatively unchanged since the 1980s. Payroll tax rates have increased 50% since 1970.
So, the major impact seen above has been the increased payroll tax rate and the reduced corp tax rate.
So the payroll tax has been used as a slush fund to mask the real debts this govt has been accumulating for a century.
$20 trillion in debt is hardly masked.
Exactly, LLPOH. They have hidden in plain sight the fact that they are not serious about paying down the public debt. It’s like all drama you get when you catch your GF cheating on you, no – wait, it’s all the bullshit you get when your GF is cheating on you and you don’t have a clue, yet the signs are all there.
EC
Paying off, say, 20 trillion of public debt eliminates 20 trillion from the money supply and the economy as it -the money in circulation that debt created- no longer exists after being paid off.
Are you sure you want to see that?
Good fucking grief. Honest money for a change would be the best thing that could happen to this country.
Are you sure you want to become Zimbabwe or Venezuela? Nibiru would be more merciful.
Masked men, women. Masking red tape. Masquerade ballin’ from hi to lo to hi. Masque of the red (ink) death. Damascus blades in most all hands & in most all backs. Perversity & stupidity & dishonesty & other synonyms.
It was until about 1980 or so.
The chart means the Neocons will soon tell us that the corporate and estate rates are still too high?
My take is that we could sock it to corporations and have high nominal personal income tax rates back in the ’50’s when we were the only industrialized country not decimated by WWII. Now that we have to compete with other countries, with money and production being fungible, we can’t get away with confiscatory nominal tax rates the way we did in the 1950’s – no matter how much lefties wish we could.
The chart clearly shows the tax burden has shifted from corporations to workers. Are you guys DENSE?
The tax bill for average people will not be impacted enough to do anything significant . Considering that our president and congressional bozo’s think $175,000 is a middle class salary , obviously they are clueless about the cost of living , the employment oppurtunities and the salary offers after all 30 hours at $15 bucks per hour is considered full time ! Wow what a deal , never fear the plan will trickle down prosperity like always . As average Americans get pissed on by the circle jerk that is Wall Street to K-Street to Capitol Street the insider bunch will tell the outsider bunch we should thank them for the rain .
As a strong advocate for skilled labor that should earn a master craftsman’s wages and benefits it is my duty to inform all such is not the case . Yes there are pockets of prosperity and some successes to be pointed too just not in the significant numbers that will Make America Great Again !
The industrial might that could do that has been left to rust rot or make way for condos and casinos . The people that would be training the next generation and producing products and equipment were thrown overboard 40 to 50 years ago and now there are to few to train and no place to do it and the circle jerk couldn’t care less !
Conclusion: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GO!!!
Pretty obvious that the graph says that the Keep TBP Fighting meter is short just a bit short with less than 2 weeks to go.. It is the Holiday season…
Payroll tax didn’t “go up”… it exploded 4-5x while other taxes shrank or stayed flat.
Seeing as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicare Part D (the drug “benefit”) were unsustainable from the start (and basically nothing but vote-buying schemes by both democrats AND republicans), it is of little wonder that payroll taxes have been increased. And even with that, USDebtclock.org still estimates a total of over $44TRILLION in unfunded liabilities for these programs as of this moment.
Corporations people too.
[img
[/img]
Long time lurker, first time commenter; this site is my ‘go to’ every day. Some of the regulars here seem like old friends after I’ve watched them develop as “persons” over literally years through their dropped breadcrumbs of personal information. Stuckey, Llpoh, HSF, Maggie; all people I know perhaps better than I know some of the people in the small town I call home. Regarding the comments about the latest tax scam from the swamp, please correct me if I’m wrong but I have long thought that taxes on businesses were part of the cost side of the ledger which have to either be passed through to the customer, or serve to reduce profits(which I think is why the business exists) so either the cost to the customer goes up or the business goes down. Since in the end only people pay taxes, might we all be better off to stop the BS of corporate tax collection and pass-through in the name of real clarity?
dropped breadcrumbs of personal information
That’s a cold way of putting it. Try keeping all that hidden and what you end up with is a YoBo or Andrea Irajihadist. I keep my cards close to the vest and fly under the radar. I should be more forthcoming so I can develop as a person but it’s hard to be so open, especially with critics like Infidel out there.
EC