On March 10, 1945, 300 American bombers continue to drop almost 2,000 tons of incendiaries on Tokyo, Japan, in a mission that had begun the previous day. The attack destroyed large portions of the Japanese capital and killed 100,000 civilians.
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In the closing months of the war, the United States had turned to incendiary bombing tactics against Japan, also known as “area bombing,” in an attempt to break Japanese morale and force a surrender. The firebombing of Tokyo was the first major bombing operation of this sort against Japan.
Early in the morning, the B-29s dropped their bombs of napalm and magnesium incendiaries over the packed residential districts along the Sumida River in eastern Tokyo. The conflagration quickly engulfed Tokyo’s wooden residential structures, and the subsequent firestorm replaced oxygen with lethal gases, superheated the atmosphere, and caused hurricane-like winds that blew a wall of fire across the city. The majority of the 100,000 who perished died from carbon monoxide poisoning and the sudden lack of oxygen, but others died horrible deaths within the firestorm, such as those who attempted to find protection in the Sumida River and were boiled alive, or those who were trampled to death in the rush to escape the burning city. As a result of the attack, 10 square miles of eastern Tokyo were entirely obliterated, and an estimated 250,000 buildings were destroyed.
During the next nine days, U.S. bombers flew similar missions against Nagoya, Osaka, and Kobe. In August, U.S. atomic attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki finally forced Japan’s hand.
The actual death toll was always put at 300000 + until “revised” in the 1990’s. Tokyo was filled with refugees at the time. The post war USAF BDA team put the number of dead and wounded at more than 400000. That was “revised ” in 1950 in an effort to end the occupation. Japan tried to surrender several times after the “fire raids” left the nation and war industry devastated. The US refused to even read the offer of surrender presented by the Swiss (who sill keep the original documents. they can be read by the public. ) until after the Atomic bombs were tested on “live” targets. US Bombing of Japanese cities in late 1944 and 1945 killed AT MINIMUM 2 million mostly women and children. Not a record to be proud of. The current “revision” is a propaganda exercise by your government to sell you the idea that a Nuclear war won’t be all that bad, so it’s OK to have one.
War is not very healthy for living things. WW2 taught us some lessons and certainly shows the futility of total war. The concept of total war now is beyond comprehension. We shall see!
Excellent post, Ray. So defenseless were the Japanese that LeMay had his B29’s come in and drop their loads at 10,000′. It was shooting fish (read defenseless people) in a barrel. He and his partner in slaughter robert mcnamara both agreed that they would get away with the war crime only because the u.s. was going to win the war. So fuck the Nuremberg war trials.
And, yes the next major war will make those atrocious numbers seem like child’s play.
Tough shit for them. Geopolitics is a high stakes game and we’re the pawns. They were murdering & raping their way through Indo-China intent on killing everyone in that part of the Pacific, even Australia. Play stupid games…
I wonder about them really trying to surrender when we were building up a massive invasion force despite these horrific fire bombings. Their lying diplomats were in DC blahblahblahing when they attacked Pearl Harbor. So they presented some documents, that don’t mean anything.
My godfather for one was eternally grateful to Truman for dropping those bombs as he was slated for a landing. Estimates of Allied wounded and killed were as high as 1 million.
I did expect someone to take the large view of the small picture. If turnabout is fair play the u.s. military has been fucking innocent people over and bombing wedding parties for a half century. With your logic we deserve some cataclysmic slaughter in return. Also fdr knew they were going to bomb Pearl and allowed it to happen. Pearl was a military target. The u.s. chose civilian targets. Finally, despite your godfather’s concern the Japanese were licked well before the atomic bombing. And research what the hero’s who won the war thought about it, including Ike, Mac Arthur, Adms King, Leahy and the Bull. They thought it was completely unnecessary and barbaric
All this he-man bullshit talk is going to be of no account once Vlad lights off that weapon that will send a 1500′ tsunami wave from New York harbor to the Ohio River.
War is no longer an option. It’s a death sentence.
My father told me Truman saved his life…and mine and my sister’s.
My father did also. They were wrong.
How do you know that?
If Dougout Doug got his way for the big invasion maybe neither one of us would be posting?
https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/MacArthur%20Reports/MacArthur%20V1/ch13.htm
I read it from the direct quotes of Ike, Mac Arthur, Naval Chief Leahy Washington, Naval Chief in the Pacific King and Admiral Bull Halsey. They knew better than our fathers. My father in law also. It was a common fallacy.
Douglass Mac Arthur was one of the most effective commanders in American history. And he did so while avoiding the enemy to reduce his soldier’s causalities then cutting their supply lines so they withered on the vine. He knew the horror of war.
CC
Check this out.
“General Marshall, in conference with President Truman, estimated 31,000 in 30 days after landing in Kyushu. Admiral Leahy estimated that the invasion would cost 268,000 casualties. Personnel at the Navy Department estimated that the total losses to America would be between 1.7 and 4 million with 400,000 to 800,000 deaths. The same department estimated that there would be up to 10 million Japanese casualties. The ‘Los Angeles Times’ estimated that America would suffer up to 1 million casualties.
Regardless of which figures were used, it was an accepted fact that America would lose a very large number of men. This was one of the reasons why President Truman authorised the use of the atomic bomb in an effort to get Japan to surrender. On August 6th, ‘Little Boy’ was dropped
on Hiroshima and on August 9th, ‘Fat Man’ was dropped on Nagasaki. On September 2nd, Japan surrendered and America and her allies were spared the task of invading Japan with the projected massive casualties this would entail.”
Operation Downfall
Here are the major players who disagreed with dropping the two Atomic Bombs and why: http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm
CC – This is a fascinating article on the subject:
If the Atomic Bomb Had Not Been Used
Was Japan already beaten before the August 1945 bombings?
Editor’s Note: President Harry S. Truman responded to this article in the weeks after it was published.
About a week after V-J Day, I was one of a small group of scientists and engineers interrogating an intelligent, well-informed Japanese Army officer in Yokohama. We asked him what, in his opinion, would have been the next major move if the war had continued. He replied: “You would probably have tried to invade our homeland with a landing operation on Kyushu about November 1. I think the attack would have been made on such and such beaches.”
“Could you have repelled this landing?” we asked, and he answered: “It would have been a very desperate fight, but I do not think we could have stopped you.”
“What would have happened then?” we asked.
He replied: “We would have kept on fighting until all Japanese were killed, but we would not have been defeated,” by which he meant that they would not have been disgraced by surrender.
It is easy now, after the event, to look back and say that Japan was already a beaten nation, and to ask what therefore was the justification for the use of the atomic bomb to kill so many thousands of helpless Japanese in this inhuman way; furthermore, should we not better have kept it to ourselves as a secret weapon for future use, if necessary? This argument has been advanced often, but it seems to me utterly fallacious.
I had, perhaps, an unusual opportunity to know the pertinent facts from several angles, yet I was without responsibility for any of the decisions. I can therefore speak without doing so defensively. While my role in the atomic bomb development was a very minor one, I was a member of the group called together by Secretary of War Stimson to assist him in plans for its test, use, and subsequent handling. Then, shortly before Hiroshima, I became attached to General MacArthur in Manila, and lived for two months with his staff. In this way I learned something of the invasion plans and of the sincere conviction of these best-informed officers that a desperate and costly struggle was still ahead. Finally, I spent the first month after V-J Day in Japan, where I could ascertain at first hand both the physical and the psychological state of that country. Some of the Japanese whom I consulted were my scientific and personal friends of long standing.
From this background I believe, with complete conviction, that the use of the atomic bomb saved hundreds of thousands—perhaps several millions—of lives, both American and Japanese; that without its use the war would have continued for many months; that no one of good conscience knowing, as Secretary Stimson and the Chiefs of Staff did, what was probably ahead and what the atomic bomb might accomplish could have made any different decision. Let some of the facts speak for themselves.
Was the use of the atomic bomb inhuman? All war is inhuman. Here are some comparisons of the atomic bombing with conventional bombing. At Hiroshima the atomic bomb killed about 80,000 people, pulverized about five square miles, and wrecked an additional ten square miles of the city, with decreasing damage out to seven or eight miles from the center. At Nagasaki the fatal casualties were 45,000 and the area wrecked was considerably smaller than at Hiroshima because of the configuration of the city.
Compare this with the results of two B-29 incendiary raids over Tokyo. One of these raids killed about 125,000 people, the other nearly 100,000.
Of the 210 square miles of greater Tokyo, 85 square miles of the densest part was destroyed as completely, for all practical purposes, as were the centers of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; about half the buildings were destroyed in the remaining 125 square miles; the number of people driven homeless out of Tokyo was considerably larger than the population of greater Chicago. These figures are based on information given us in Tokyo and on a detailed study of the air reconnaissance maps. They may be somewhat in error but are certainly of the right order of magnitude.
Was Japan already beaten before the atomic bomb? The answer is certainly “yes” in the sense that the fortunes of war had turned against her. The answer is “no” in the sense that she was still fighting desperately and there was every reason to believe that she would continue to do so; and this is the only answer that has any practical significance.
General MacArthur’s staff anticipated about 50,000 American casualties and several times that number of Japanese casualties in the November 1 operation to establish the initial beachheads on Kyushu. After that they expected a far more costly struggle before the Japanese homeland was subdued. There was every reason to think that the Japanese would defend their homeland with even greater fanaticism than when they fought to the death on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. No American soldier who survived the bloody struggles on these islands has much sympathy with the view that battle with the Japanese was over as soon as it was clear that their ultimate situation was hopeless. No, there was every reason to expect a terrible struggle long after the point at which some people can now look back and say, “Japan was already beaten.”
A month after our occupation I heard General MacArthur say that even then, if the Japanese government lost control over its people and the millions of former Japanese soldiers took to guerrilla warfare in the mountains, it could take a million American troops ten years to master the situation.
That this was not an impossibility is shown by the following fact, which I have not seen reported. We recall the long period of nearly three weeks between the Japanese offer to surrender and the actual surrender on September 2. This was needed in order to arrange details: of the surrender and occupation and to permit the Japanese government to prepare its people to accept the capitulation. It is not generally realized that there was threat of a revolt against the government, led by an Army group supported by the peasants, to seize control and continue the war. For several days it was touch and go as to whether the people would follow their government in surrender.
The bulk of the Japanese people did not consider themselves beaten; in fact they believed they were winning in spite of the terrible punishment they had taken. They watched the paper balloons take off and float eastward in the wind, confident that these were carrying a terrible retribution to the United States in revenge for our air raids.
We gained a vivid insight into the state of knowledge and morale of the ordinary Japanese soldier from a young private who had served through the war in the Japanese Army. He had lived since babyhood in America, and had graduated in 1940 from Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This lad, thoroughly American in outlook, had gone with his family to visit relatives shortly after his graduation. They were caught in the mobilization and he was drafted into the Army.
This young Japanese told us that all his fellow soldiers believed that Japan was winning the war. To them the losses of Iwo Jima and Okinawa were parts of a grand strategy to lure the American forces closer and closer to the homeland, until they could be pounced upon and utterly annihilated. He himself had come to have some doubts as a result of various inconsistencies in official reports. Also he had seen the Ford assembly line in operation and knew that Japan could not match America in war production. But none of the soldiers had any inkling of the true situation until one night, at ten-thirty, his regiment was called to hear the reading of the surrender proclamation.
Did the atomic bomb bring about the end of the war? That it would do so was the calculated gamble and hope of Mr. Stimson, General Marshall, and their associates. The facts are these. On July 26, 1945, the Potsdam Ultimatum called on Japan to surrender unconditionally. On July 29 Premier Suzuki issued a statement, purportedly at a cabinet press conference, scorning as unworthy of official notice the surrender ultimatum, and emphasizing the increasing rate of Japanese aircraft production. Eight days later, on August 6, the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima; the second was dropped on August 9 on Nagasaki; on the following day, August 10, Japan declared its intention to surrender, and on August 14 accepted the Potsdam terms.
On the basis of these facts, I cannot believe that, without the atomic bomb, the surrender would have come without a great deal more of costly struggle and bloodshed.
Exactly what role the atomic bomb played will always allow some scope for conjecture. A survey has shown that it did not have much immediate effect on the common people far from the two bombed cities; they knew little or nothing of it. The even more disastrous conventional bombing of Tokyo and other cities had not brought the people into the mood to surrender.
The evidence points to a combination of factors. (1) Some of the more informed and intelligent elements in Japanese official circles realized that they were fighting a losing battle and that complete destruction lay ahead if the war continued. These elements, however, were not powerful enough to sway the situation against the dominating Army organization, backed by the profiteering industrialists, the peasants, and the ignorant masses. (2) The atomic bomb introduced a dramatic new element into the situation, which strengthened the hands of those who sought peace and provided a face-saving argument for those who had hitherto advocated continued war. (3) When the second atomic bomb was dropped, it became clear that this was not an isolated weapon, but that there were others to follow. With dread prospect of a deluge of these terrible bombs and no possibility of preventing them, the argument for surrender was made convincing. This I believe to be the true picture of the effect of the atomic bomb in bringing the war to a sudden end, with Japan’s unconditional surrender.
If the atomic bomb had not been used, evidence like that I have cited points to the practical certainty that there would have been many more months of death and destruction on an enormous scale. Also the early timing of its use was fortunate for a reason which could not have been anticipated. If the invasion plans had proceeded as scheduled, October, 1945, would have seen Okinawa covered with airplanes and its harbors crowded with landing craft poised for the attack. The typhoon which struck Okinawa in that month would have wrecked the invasion plans with a military disaster comparable to Pearl Harbor.
These are some of the facts which lead those who know them, and especially those who had to base decisions on them, to feel that there is much delusion and wishful thinking among those after-the-event strategists who now deplore the use of the atomic bomb on the ground that its use was inhuman or that it was unnecessary because Japan was already beaten. And it was not one atomic bomb, or two, which brought surrender; it was the experience of what an atomic bomb will actually do to a community, plus the dread of many more, that was effective.
If 500 bombers could wreak such destruction on Tokyo, what will 500 bombers, each carrying an atomic bomb, do to the City of Tomorrow? It is this deadly prospect which now lends such force to the two basic policies of our nation on this subject: (1) We must strive generously and with all our ability to promote the United Nations’ effort to assure future peace between nations; but we must not lightly surrender the atomic bomb as a means for our own defense. (2) We should surrender or share it only when there is adopted an international plan to enforce peace in which we can have great confidence.
CC, I fall back to my original post:
My father told me Truman saved his life…and mine and my sister’s…I believe he was right.
Anyway…glad both our Dad’s survived and we are here to post about it!
Actually the bombers came in at between 2500 and 4000 ft. This is the zone that is too high for gunfire and too low for anti-aircraft artillery. It was done at night because the Japanese had few night fighting aircraft (radar-equipped planes). The crewman could smell the results of their actions.
they had been trying to surrender since ’43 or ’44–the commies around roosevelt & truman either didn’t present the offers or minimized them because russia wanted japan to stay in the war–
japan wound up w/the same terms from macarthur that they had offered over a year earlier–
You win a war by killing the enemy.
Something we knew in WWII but seem to have forgotten after it was over.
Which is why we won WWII unconditionally and have lost everything since.
nobody ever hears about it because it was in a rural area and it started as the same day as the great chicago fire but in rural wisconsin a massive fire occured that caused tremendous damage & loss of life–that fire created massive fireballs,which is what caused most of the damage & loss of life–
during ww2,war planners from the us & britian went to wisconsin to learn how to replicate the fireballs,which were then loosed upon the civilian populations of germany & japan–
Bullshit ,the Japs were trying to surrender on their terms.American terms were unconditional surrender.Had the Japs been willing to surrender on American terms the bombing would have stopped. Remember ,they attacked us first.
Air Force General LeMay said so much in interviews after the war.The Japs would not surrender according to American terms so He Destory the Japs cities and they still would not surrender.
Anonymous ,you are so right .The objective of War is to kill the enemy as quickly as you can in order to save your own Army.The Army is made up of real flesh and blood men. That’s is what the American leaders saved.
Amen.
BB. The Japanese agreed to all our terms except abdication of the Emperor. Then they even agreed to that and we still refused to let them surrender.
I lived with a girl who survived the fire bombing. She said before each raid we dropped thousands of cinder blocks on the roofs so the firebombs could more easily penetrate and do more damage. You believe your narrative because General La May said it was true. That would be the same guy who bragged about vaporizing all of N.Korea. in the name of peace. You just told Stucky’s how much you read the Bible each day. Perhaps you should try reading the black printed lines and avoid reading the clear white lines in between for awhile.
I recall somebody held Curtis LeMay in low regard. Patton comes across the same way. Thanks, Flea. You’ll get no points here for holding liberal views but I appreciate your honesty. Otherwise, all you’ll hear from the radical right is crush, kill, destroy.
” She said before each raid we dropped thousands of cinder blocks on the roofs so the firebombs could more easily penetrate and do more damage.”
WTF? Citation/link(s) please.
Hey, stupid, Flea is your reference and citation, moran. He also had other narratives from ‘nam that would singe the hair around your asshole.
Thanks El. I still love you but I’m not a liberal . I just refuse to accept story lines that overlook that kind of slaughter. I was among the first to expose Stalin and Mao for the slaughter of 100 million. I also, as you well know I don’t buy that links stuff. Your one of the few I missed here.
Anyone who doesn’t support the mindless slaughter of people because Uncle Sam says its ok, is generally branded a “liberal” because name calling is easier than examining one’s own lack of morals when it comes to the deaths of innocents. And YES, I mean innocents. Women and children in Japan (especially in the 1940s) had NO say in what was going on in their worthless government. Frankly most Americans have no say in what is going on in THEIR worthless government.
What I mean is that if you are not a warmonger for whatever reason, they will consider you a liberal, the term being a useful pejorative applicable to anybody they don’t like. Even if you don’t consider yourself a ‘liberal’.
El. I stand corrected, thought you were calling me a lib. I still love you. You and Yoji. Polar opposites but this place wouldn’t be the same without you two.
Totally opposite, I heard Yoji was a girl.
Paul.. You aren’t required to believe me. I just state my case and let the reader decide. In this case I said I lived(shacked up) with a woman in Tokyo who survived it. Why I believe her? A year later to my great shame, I was wholeheartedly participating in something nearly identical. Since then I’ve become a Berean”test everything” so I don’t begrudge your asking.
The first bombing of Tokyo was the Doolittle Raid on April 18, 1942. Jimmy Doolittle’s co-pilot Dick Cole is the last surving member.
https://www.history.com/news/one-final-toast-for-the-doolittle-raiders
My dad fought the Japanese on Iwo Jima. He is in this picture looking at the camera with his hands in his dungaree pockets. Ira Hayes is to his right. The picture was taken 3 March ’45. The next day dad got shot in the head, received last rights because he had dog tags/religious medallions around his neck from fallen marines and they didn’t know if he was catholic or not. He was evacuated to Guam and let bygones be living in Japan as a teacher for 20 years. He is at time 25 minutes in lower left of documentary “Shooting Iwo Jima” (flag raising motion picture). A navy corpsman in 2/28 5th marine division. He carried an M1 and a 45 cal pistol to protect his marines (that refutes that fellow corpsman John Bradley couldn’t have been flag raiser as man in picture had a rifle).
When I lived there from late 50s through late 70s we owned Japan. I would think the Japanese would be fed up by now of being our hosts.
Subwo , that’s nice.I like to read and see pictures about the men who fought in the Pacific Theater .Hard Battles , Tough soldiers. Men of courage.
Thanks BB. I didn’t find this till after he died in 2011. He told me when I was a kid that he was in that outfit when I was looking at a picture of the flag on Iwo. He was only there for the first one raised and was one of 4 marines of the company sent down the Mt. when Joe Rosenthal was going up to take the camera picture that became famous. Dad never joined VFW or did the chest thumping. He just said that when one gets a belly full of war they never want to repeat it.
Rabbit ,I had never read that particular Article.Glad you put it up.
Fleas ,I read the Bible and pray everyday but that doesn’t change history. The Bible is full of war.God Ordered alot of it himself.Think about that.
I’m not sure God ordered that one. Why didn’t we drop those bombs on the still viable Jap Quantung Army. Could it be that they were keeping the Commies in check in Manchuria. Stalin was preparing to invade Japan from the north. Anything less than total capitulation by Japan would give them political cover to take Hokido. Sahkalin was claimed by the Japanese and the Soviets could not use Vladisvostoc if we had that and Hokido blocked. Just one of several strategic reasons to justify the slaughter.Our very own archives show that we forced them into declaring war on us overriding Yamamotos objections. FDR couldn’t get Americans to attack Germany without Pearl harbor.
Would Japan have surrendered without the atomic bombings? Interesting article below to add to the discussion. Seems to make many points on the compass…to me.
https://www.stripes.com/news/special-reports/world-war-ii-the-final-chapter/wwii-victory-in-japan/would-japan-have-surrendered-without-the-atomic-bombings-1.360300
On a side bar: My Mothers younger brother was in Korea when the North over-ran the South as an army grunt, most of his platoon was KIA including the boyhood friend he enlisted with who was with him. He was seriously wounded and survived horrendous combat while his company was totally over-run.
He eventually made it to a hospital in Japan…where he met my Aunt Yoko…his nurse…one of the sweetest women of my boyhood and a wonderful, tender sweet Aunt.
He brought her to an old mining town in East Pa and they had a son…who has been a raging Christian Preacher since his 20’s in the 70’s.
My uncle was never the same after he came home from Korea. His war experiences seemed to have hollowed him out leaving an angry booze filled, bar room brawler – raging man in place of the shy kid who had left…and he drank himself to death over the next 20 years.
Very sad. In my small CT town there was this Hurtgen Forest vet who would wander the streets wearing an overcoat in every weather. Naturally the veterans admin didn’t do anything to help him. That’s because after doing the ruler’s bidding they became an expensive and unnecessary liability. The state has the cold heart of a reptile.
Mark. I did the same thing when I got home from Nam. Being overrun etc. It just hollows you out so completely you don’t want to feel anymore except the numbing effect of booze and drugs. By the grace of God I stopped a few weeks shy of death and turned it into something positive. I harbor no illusions about the ugliness of wars I just want to make us all think about our own wars and why we want to do it again. A war to save our families is not the same as a war to save the bankers.
Fleabaggs,
I’m 68, was a grunt in Nam.
I was in IV Corp from 11-67 to 11-68.
It was this very history thread on mar. 16 Mi Lai massacre that I started posting on TBP. I was just a casual reader here before that.
I was I Corps February to September 69…medivaced out…little bit of a left knee gimp when its cold and damp but not much.
Mark. I Corp was bad from start to finish. The other 4 were on and off.
Fleabaggs, Yea, I was under fire my fourth day in country. The “Little Tet” in 69 was nothing like 68…but it was eventful.
when i was a kid growing up there was a man up the road who was a mean as hell when he drank–the wife & kids were scared of him,and we kids knew to stay away from his house when he was drinking–
it wasn’t until i was in my late teens that my dad told me he had been a pow in korea–
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the largest Christian centers in Japan.. of course ((THEY)) dropped the atomic bombs on them.
Truman the joo.
I got drafted in ’63 and immediately went to the library to find out where ‘nam was and what it was. Then I crafted a scheme to fail the draft, which worked; I am a draft dodger and proud of it. Nam just wanted independence from French colonial overlords, but our wonderful “war,kill,war” goons running DC saw glory. So just like in our war of independence from the British overlords, we assumed the role of Hessians, and took over the role of the French, who had by then woken up, and proceeded to try and keep the Vietnamese as colonial slaves. Nice work, warmongers. Only 58,000 ignorant Yankee kids killed, and 100 dreds of thousands maimed and mentally crippled. AND THEY’RE STILL TRYING TO DO IT, AND WINNING AROUND THE WORLD !!!! Only way out is to wipe out homo sapiens and hope nature can configure something better.
Good for you for educating yourself instead of just believing the flag wavers and the lies from Uncle Sam. Sad that in this vast information age where everything is just a “click” away, the ignorant still think the US military is about defense and not about the profits of the war machine and the bankers that support it.
I am reading Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Harari right now. A good read. The author mentions the code of Hammurabi 1n 1776BC in accordance with the gods Anu, Enki , etc. He calls them mythical gods but they are recorded in the Sumerian tablets. And Sitchen has written volumes on the history of man as recorded in the tablets.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23692271-sapiens
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/sitchinbooks_timeline.htm
Ozum. you’re right about the war but I don’t remember it being in the news in 63. Only occasionally in 65 when I went in. If humans are the problem why haven’t YOU jumped off a bridge yet. You were able to identify the problem and effect a solution to Nam before it was even an issue, surely you could have found a bridge by now and led the way for millions of your Sapien hating ilk. Tell God he fucked up and to make amends he should allow you to be the first to be removed.