Editor’s note: One of the biggest topics facing Americans today is the issue of healthcare… and whether the government should play a role in providing it.
It’s unlikely this debate will fade away soon… as the coronavirus crisis continues to spread throughout the world and across America.
So in today’s Conversations With Casey, our founder Doug Casey addresses the question of whether the government should be involved in healthcare… and explains why our current system is essentially “criminal malpractice”…
Daily Dispatch: Previously, we discussed health, so I want to stay on that subject. In particular, I want to focus on a part of the health industry that I know interests you – or perhaps frustrates you, would be a better way to put it – regarding State involvement with healthcare, including socialized medicine.
One of the big talking points among Democratic candidates is their championing of more government involvement in healthcare. In your view, does that create more problems than it helps to prevent?
Doug Casey: Well, in the first place, don’t call it healthcare. That’s something you provide for yourself through proper diet, exercise, nutrition, and lifestyle. The State likes that term because it sounds friendly and positive; the average person wants to believe that “they” will somehow keep him in good health, for free. What they actually provide, at best, is medical care – which is about medicines and surgery, trauma and disease. Nobody wants to be reminded of those things. So don’t confuse it with healthcare.
Apart from that, only an idiot wants the State involved in medicine; socialized medicine is not the answer to health problems. In fact, it’s reasonable to say that it’s the cause of many of these problems. It reduces the efficiency of medical care to that of the Post Office, Amtrak, or your local DMV. The fact that US medical care is no better than, but between twice and 10 times the cost of similar care in, other places in the world is 100% the fault of the government’s laws and regulations.
Getting the State involved in medicine is criminal malpractice.
Daily Dispatch: Okay, but let us take the devil’s advocate view. Those in favor of socialized medicine say that there is a moral obligation for the government to provide a basic level of healthcare.
Doug Casey: Yes, I’m aware of that argument. But it’s grounded in ignorance. It’s not only destructive, but it’s immoral. Your body is your primary possession, and you’re responsible for your body, not society. Much in the same way as you’re responsible for your own clothes, car, and house. Society isn’t responsible for them – or shouldn’t be. If you’re not motivated to take care of your own body and it falls apart, that’s your problem. It’s not society’s problem or anybody else’s problem.
When people say that this is a moral issue or a moral obligation, they are right – but not in the way they think. It’s actually immoral to force someone to pay for another’s medical care. Nor is it morally right for a government to force a doctor or other health professional to sell his or her labor at a price decided by politicians or bureaucrats.
Many people are looking for the government to take care of these things. They idiotically think it’s free. But we know from both history and today’s experiences that governments not only can’t take care of things, they wind up poisoning whatever they touch. That’s to be expected. They’re based on coercion, and operated by people that believe in coercion.
Daily Dispatch: So, put these things in the hands of entrepreneurs and scientists, as long as it’s done without government meddling, right?
Doug Casey: When it comes to medical care, and curing things like the coronavirus, I would much rather rely on entrepreneurial biochemists, who are motivated by profit, than salaried drones working nine to five at a government desk job.
Actually, everything’s upside down in all of this. People are looking to the State, not science, to solve the problem. But State intervention in medicine is a major part of the problem. The FDA, for instance, probably kills more people every year than the Department of Defense does in a typical decade. Why? Because it delays the use of drugs, devices, and procedures by years, and raises their costs by billions.
From that point of view, we live in the worst of all possible worlds. But the good news is that, notwithstanding, science keeps advancing and things keep getting better.
Daily Dispatch: Staying on the topic of socialized medicine, a few years ago, former Congressman Ron Paul said up until the 1960s, only a small percentage of US medical care was funded directly or indirectly by the government. If people needed medical care, they would use a church-funded service, or a service funded by a local organization. Now, it’s a much larger amount with the various programs in place. What’s your take on how medical care has changed?
Doug Casey: That’s absolutely correct. A lot of this has to do with the moral risks involved, which have also changed over time. In those days, if somebody needed medical or financial help, there wasn’t a government bureaucracy to kiss it and make it better. You’d go to your local church, Optimist Club, Rotary, or some other beneficial organization. There used to be hundreds of them, but now they’re mostly gone. Their raison d’etre disappeared with welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, and the like. They tended to sort people out as to whether they were actually deserving or not, and only gave help as long as it was needed.
That’s a completely different structure than what we have today. Today, the government hands over money and assistance regardless of genuine need, which means the system is rife with abuse. Worse, the government’s involvement has totally destroyed the functions of private charitable organizations.
In addition to that, I would make the point that, if you don’t have the money to pay for your own medical expenses, maybe that means that you’re not a productive person. And if you’re not a productive person, why should other people be forced to keep you alive?
I think it’s actually immoral to force others to keep mooches, slackers, and other unproductive people alive on general principles. Justice is about people getting what they deserve. If you’re a foolish grasshopper, don’t save money, and don’t take care of your body, whose fault is it? If you then want to force other people to bail you out, that is both immoral and unjust. People should get what they deserve.
Everybody dies eventually. Nobody gets out of here alive. Although, I hasten to add, it won’t be long before science is able to extend the human lifespan almost indefinitely.
Daily Dispatch: And for those who genuinely can’t help themselves, or who are in a bad position that is not necessarily of their own making?
Doug Casey: That’s where the charitable organizations would help. It’s up to voluntary organizations to dispense donations wisely. If an organization was profligate allocating funds, donors would think twice before donating again. A totally different situation from government taking money in compulsory taxes, then frittering it on political whim to the undeserving.
As I said, this is much more a moral question than just a question of efficiency or economics. The morality question is: Does the State have a right to hold a gun to your head to make you pay for someone else’s bad luck or bad habits?
But governments and bureaucrats don’t see it that way. They see tax money as theirs to spend as they see fit, not according to the desire of its producers, what’s efficient, or what is morally correct.
Daily Dispatch: Well put. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts today, Doug.
Doug Casey: My pleasure.
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Hi Doug,
Fuck you.
Does the government have a obligation to have 14 aircraft carriers and 800 bases around the world?
Does the government have an obligation to tax the middle class in oblivion, while allowing corporations to pay no taxes and commit fraud with no punishment?
Does the government have the obligation to allow AGW to terrorize the average citizen?
Why does Medicare satisfaction approval poll in the 70% range Doug?
What is the government’s obligation other than to make my life miserable?
If we have a government, and it’s only obligation is to make my life hard and allow healthcare to go through for profit corporations that make billions while charging astronomical prices for crappy coverage, then why the fuck have a government at all.
Again, fuck you Doug.
The problem with dirtbags like Doug Casey is that they talk of morality without having any moral grounding themselves. “When people say that this is a moral issue or a moral obligation, they are right – but not in the way they think. It’s actually immoral to force someone to pay for another’s medical care. Nor is it morally right for a government to force a doctor or other health professional to sell his or her labor at a price decided by politicians or bureaucrats.” This guy has the moral bearing of a gerbil. If you want to talk actual morality, it is immoral to watch someone suffer from something easily treatable while the scum that skims off the top piles billions of dollars into their bank accounts. Fuck you Doug Casey. You know nothing about morality, so shut the fuck up.
Casey, like any other hardcore Clintonite liberal, is a Godless, souless money worshipper. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not so much. People like him are why the younger generation despise capitalism and are so behind Bernie Sanders
I don’t have a problem with my tax money helping people with rare diseases or who wind up getting cancer. What I DO have a problem with is the high cost associated with preventable obesity. These people should get nothing more than diet and nutritional education. A nurse should go to their house, throw out all the crap they are eating, and they should be signed up for classes on proper portion size and low carb lifestyle. Make people responsible for their own choices.
And how many people would REALLY have the cash money to ‘pay for their own (medical) expenses’ in this market? Only the ones who’ve stolen the most like Bloomberg and Sanders.
Lets do a little, what if, on obesity.
1. What if we found, in our chemical based food diet, food conversion chemicals like we feed to our live stock once upon a time.
2. What if we found the GMO manipulations to be more intrusive than we are being told. They have crossed barriers between animal and plant life.
3. What if we stopped watching the best propaganda machines ever invented, the hand held telephone anf tv set.
4. What if we all got off our plump butts and did a little good old exercise in the form of day to day taking care of ourselves.
Class dismissed.
Come on Doug , socialized medical insurance works great for government employees . In most cases for school teachers , police , firemen and paper pushers pay a great deal less for a great deal more coverage and more choices for medical insurance plans . Private sector employees have seen real wages shrink while all benefits from retirement and health insurance plans paid by companies evaporated . Now private sector employees are not able to cover the expense for their own benefits but are taxed to subsidize benefits for people that make more money than they do and retire younger then they can if at all and you should know this and if you don’t then as others have already expressed “FUCK YOU”
To you thumbs down you are either wealthy and prepared to drop hundreds of thousands out of pocket or you are covered by a tax payer subsidized health insurance plan
Insurance and welfare/medicaid/medicare fucked it all up.
Casey is a jew. His Talmud regards all non-jews as “livestock with souls, born only to serve the jews”.
That being said:
There are problems in the American health care system, BUT, comparisons to other countries is off-base.
If you need a CT scan or other high-tech procedure here in the USA, you will get one, almost immediately.
In addition, ANYONE who shows up at a hospital emergency room WILL be treated without consideration of “who will pay the bill”. This is the case in ALL medical facilities that have emergency rooms and urgent care centers in the United States, and is mandated by law.
Our neighbor to the north, which has excellent medical staff, routinely rations CT scans and other high-tech procedures, as these machines and procedures are far less available due to cost considerations. You might have to wait 3 months for the same CT scan in Canada.
A number of years ago, Canadian hospitals were caught providing CT scans for veterinarians’ animals, while humans were on waiting lists for use of the machines. You see, veterinarians paid cash “up front” for use of the machines.
A dirty little secret of Canadian health care, is that some patients are referred to American border-city hospitals for treatment if they squawk loud enough.
In addition, Canadian politicians and movers and shakers routinely come to the United States for medical treatment.
Look at Great Britain’s National Health Service which routinely rations health care as well as exacting death sentences on humans because of cost.
Recently, a British subject (baby) was refused potentially life-saving treatment not only in Great Britain, but also in the United States. The parents had the money to pay for the treatment here in the United States, but Britain’s National Health Service would not allow the baby to leave. A similar situation is unfolding, as the “National Health Service” refuses to allow the parents to take their child to Italy for treatment. What kind of health-care is that?
Socialized health care is fine for cuts, scrapes, and bruises, but when it comes to high-tech procedures, there are always cost considerations. Anyone can see that government-imposed solutions almost never work.
It is interesting to note, that in Canada, Great Britain, and other “socialized medicine” countries, private supplemental health insurance is necessary in order to receive decent medical treatment.
The problem is not health care, but health INSURANCE and HMOs – Health Maintenance Organizations, which artificially mask the true costs of health care. Health INSURANCE should be available for catastrophic situations, not routine medical care.
Going back to a “fee for services” like in the pre-HMO days of medicine would be an improvement as there would be competition for health care services.
Two good examples of successful “fee for services” medicine are plastic surgery and laser refractive surgery (eyes). Both plastic surgeons and ophthalmologists offer discounts for their procedures. In fact, prices for these procedures are constantly dropping.
A good distinction can be made between HMOs and automobile insurance.
Automobile insurance pays for accidents and damage to vehicles, nothing more. If automobile insurance were run like HMOs, they would pay for vehicle maintenance,oil-changes and the like.
Yes, the American health-care system needs improvement, but socialized medicine is not the right approach.
As much as I loved Trump beating Hillary, I will love Sanders beating Trump. The number one issue for real people is healthcare. Not the wall, not guns, not abortion. The fact that they don’t want to be bankrupted if they get sick. If Bernie runs he will destroy Trump. Bank on it.
Not a chance
If you think old bernie is going to give you health care I suggest you are kidding yourself. Double check his track record for helping the people.
It’s not that people want socialized medicine. They need healthcare they can afford.
I agree Yahure.
If you want health care you can afford, then open it up to competition, decentralize it, stop wanting magic, get big money out of the game and for damn sure get government out of the health care business. Government was NEVER suppose to be a business in the first place.
Just a suggestion and possible starting point.