And They Ask Me Why I Drink….

Guest Post by Eric Peters

What follows began as a reader question about electric cars and their “low maintenance.” I replied to this reader here. She replied to me, below. Since the topic is of general interest, I decided to give it the Treatment, in the manner of fungicide.

First, Samantha, who writes:

I have an engineering degree and you don’t fool me for one second. The engine (in an IC car) is by far the most expensive part of the car. In electric and hydrogen cars, they’re maintenance free. You’re selling horses in the dawn of the age of the motor car.

I’m not selling anything, Samantha. Nor trying to “fool” anyone.

I never claimed the engine in an IC car isn’t “by far the most expensive” part of it. Do you know what a straw man argument is? I did state that in an electric car the battery is extremely expensive.

Which is inarguably true.

I also pointed out – in re your original question – that electric cars are not (as you claimed) lower maintenance than IC cars. Maybe the electric motor is – but that is only one part of the EV. Aside from the motor, EVs have many of the same maintenance issues (e.g., wear and tear on brakes ands tires, suspension components as well as the cooling/heating system for the battery, which isn’t]\

easy for the average person to deal with; in some cases, the EV’s body must be lifted off the chassis to access these systems, etc).

You’re right that an EV doesn’t need oil and air filter changes and occasional tuneups but these are very infrequent in a modern IC car – which you ought to know since you’re an engineer – and such regular maintenance is generally inexpensive, while the EV itself is extremely expensive.

For example, the Nissan Leaf – which is currently the lowest-priced EV available – stickers for $30,000. This is for the version with the low-capacity battery and a 150 mile “best case” range.

This is twice the cost of an IC economy car that’s otherwise similar in terms of size and so on, such as Nissan’s Versa – which stickers for about $15k (and can travel 300-plus miles on a tank).

How many oil and filter changes does that $15k difference pay for? Well, let’s do some math – which engineers are good at. Let’s say an oil change costs $50 and let’s posit that the oil needs to be changed once every 5,000 miles. Let’s call it twice a year, so $100 annually.

The math does not look good…

But let’s try to make it better – for the EV. Let’s quintuple the cost of annual maintenance for the IC car to $500 – which is a gross exaggeration.

It still looks pretty bad… for the EV. Ten years of $500 annual maintenance runs to $5,000 so you’re still $10k in the hole – if you bought the Leaf.

But wait there’s more  . . . math, that is!

In addition to the expense of the EV itself, there is the additional expense (several thousand dollars) of replacing the battery – which must be replaced at some point due to inevitable degradation of charge capacity (engineers ought to know about this) as opposed to expensive IC components such as an engine, which usually never have to be replaced over a much longer useful service life (at least 15-20 years and longer).

Let’s not forget the cost of a “fast” charger” in your home. Add another $800-$1,000 to the cost of ownership. Oh, and you’ll also be paying more in property taxes – based on the purchase price/retail value of the car.

And insurance – based on the much higher replacement cost of the EV.

If your fundamental point is that EVs are cheaper because the motor doesn’t need maintenance, you’re simply wrong. EVs do not cost less to maintain – or rather, to own –  once you factor in the cost of everything  – as opposed to just the battery.

The bottom line is, you spend more. A great deal more.

And your premise that EVs are today’s equivalent of IC cars replacing horses and buggies is silly because unlike the cars of 100 years ago, EVs today are much more expensive and far less convenient than IC cars. One hundred years ago, it wasn’t necessary to pass laws mandating that Model Ts be manufactured, nor subsidize their purchase. They were bought freely because they were superior – functionally and economically – to the horse and buggy and to the electric cars of 100 years ago!

Today, EVs are being forced onto the market via mandates and subsidies. They have to be forced onto the market. Because there is no real (significant) market for them.

Precisely because their overall costs are so much higher and their limitations so much greater.

And they ask me why I drink . . .

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10 Comments
Anonymous
Anonymous
March 2, 2020 10:09 am

who would be surprised to discover “Samantha” the engineer, is just another twitter handle for Elon Musk, or some other rat bastard who is promoting: limited range, very expensive, and unreliable in cold weather, vehicles.

and why would .gov want to replace ICE ground transportation, with EV??

could it be that they don’t want a mobile population, who can influence markets, and disrupt odious legislation (I’m talking to you blackface Ralph Northam)

John
John
March 2, 2020 10:14 am

All very valid points, one’s most people ignore or don’t wish to acknowledge.

Anonymous
Anonymous
March 2, 2020 10:45 am

…and, the cost of the inevitable road use taxes that they are currently dodging.

subwo
subwo
March 2, 2020 10:51 am

When someone touts their engineering degree I ask what one. There are hundreds.

40 Different Types of Engineering Degrees

BUCKHED
BUCKHED
March 2, 2020 12:36 pm

As I said in college at the Frat House:

If all be true of what I think
There are 4 good reason’s of why I drink
Good Whisky
A woman
Perhaps being dry
Or any other reason I can think of why !

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
March 2, 2020 1:35 pm

Never argue with a dumbass. Make your point and move on. Hopefully enough might penetrate their thick skull so that in the future, when the revelation sinks in, it won’t be as unfamiliar.

Craig Johnson
Craig Johnson
March 2, 2020 4:12 pm

I can only hope smug stupid cunts like Samantha do not reproduce. There are too many of her ilk alive as it is.

gman
gman
March 2, 2020 6:27 pm

what about steam-driven cars? those used to be quite common, and steam driven trucks were still in use in england in the 1950’s.

Old Comrade
Old Comrade
  gman
March 2, 2020 11:50 pm

Worked on an older Toyota Sienna V6/4 cam/24 valve engine that had been mildly oil starved and was having issues. I forget the actual name of the gadget, but its purpose is to advance/retard the timing of the 2 cams used for intake valves by dynamically providing a slight “twist” to mechanically rotate the cam ever so slightly as driving conditions require. Those 2 gadgets use engine oil and the pressure of same to accomplish the rotating action of the cams; low oil, less effective gadget action. Bottom line: the idea for those gadgets was nothing new: steam engines started incorporating similar gadgets 120 years ago.

c1ue
c1ue
March 4, 2020 7:16 pm

I actually wonder whether the electric 3 phase induction motors used by Tesla degrade over time.
Brushed motors – the brush is what gets worn down and is regularly replaced. The Tesla motors are brushless, which means the winding in the motor gets the em stress.