Guest Post by Niamh McIntyre and Rosie Bradbury
The Bureau of Investigative Journalism interviewed 33 current and former Amazon employees, including 21 video reviewers, to shed light on a little-known outpost of Amazon’s sprawling global operations.
Inside a vast Amazon warehouse in Beaumont, California, squat blue robots carrying eight-foot yellow shelving units perform a jerky, mechanized dance around each other as they make their way to human workers.
Amari* works 42 hours a week there as a stower, placing products on the shelves robots bring to him. “Cameras are trained on your station at all times,” he said. “It’s kind of demeaning to have someone watching over your shoulder at every second.”
But it’s not just Amari’s managers who are watching. An artificial intelligence (AI) camera system also monitors the stowers’ movements — and if it fails, a video is sent to someone thousands of miles away whose input helps to improve Amazon’s machine-learning tools.
The videos are reviewed by workers like Viraj in Bengaluru, India. “It is very hectic work,” he said. “We shouldn’t blink our eyes while reviewing a video, because our accuracy will go less. We have to be on screen at least eight hours — which is kind of painful.”
Amari and Viraj may work in different countries doing different jobs. But both perform mind-numbingly repetitive tasks whose output is strictly monitored, all of it serving to fine-tune the very system used by Amazon to closely monitor its own workers — and create the seamless experience enjoyed by its customers.
Reviewers like Viraj get through up to 8,000 videos a day, with their output ranked against that of their colleagues. The relentless pace of their work can take a serious physical toll. They are paid as little as £212 ($260) a month.
Video reviewers interviewed by the Bureau reported physical problems including headaches, eye pain and even deterioration in their eyesight. They said they were made to hit punishing targets, with tracking software logging any periods of inactivity outside of designated break times.
While one expert recommended that people doing video annotation should take screen breaks every half an hour, some said their targets did not allow for this.
The Bureau of Investigative Journalism interviewed 33 current and former Amazon employees, including 21 video reviewers, to shed light on a little-known outpost of Amazon’s sprawling global operations.
Amazon spokesman Steve Kelly disputed a number of the allegations in this story, saying the Bureau and Verge had “selected a handful of anecdotes to paint a misleading picture, and we do not believe they represent the vast majority of our team.”
‘We’re not able to even blink our eyes’
Amazon has developed an extensive range of applications that use computer vision — a branch of machine learning in which computers process large numbers of images and learn to recognize patterns.
The cameras trained on Amari’s station use computer vision to automatically register the location of products in its inventory and flag errors he makes. This technology has also been deployed inside Amazon Go stores and to monitor compliance with social distancing guidelines by warehouse workers.
Amazon says the system’s algorithm is 95% accurate; the remainder of cases require manual checks. That means that every day millions of images and videos are sent to workers based in India and Costa Rica, who decide whether a product was successfully stowed and indicate where on the shelving unit it is located.
Video reviewers said their primary role was stock management — but they can also record errors made by their colleagues overseas: two former workers said reviewers could raise “stow etiquette” issues if they saw stowers breaking Amazon’s rules on camera.
Most crucially, though, their non-stop manual work helps to improve the computer vision system, which learns from their responses and becomes more and more accurate. But the people teaching Amazon’s computers to see said their own eyes have been damaged by the work.
“We will not be able to even blink our eyes as we need to keep a watch on the videos,” said Prisha, a former video reviewer based in Hyderabad, India. “That impacted my health a lot. It makes the eyes really dry because you constantly stare at that screen.”
The videos are anywhere between two seconds and two minutes, and reviewers said they can watch thousands in a day. Shifts are usually eight to nine hours long, though they can be increased to 11 hours during busy periods, such as in the run-up to Christmas or Black Friday.
Reviewers get around one and a half hours’ break time, with any periods of inactivity outside of that instantly logged by tracking software.
Indian interviewees said they earned 25,000 rupees (£265) per month on average, while the Costa Rican average was 514,000 colones (£716).
Constant observation
The humans behind Amazon’s all-seeing computer vision are themselves tightly monitored while they work.
Mateo, a former reviewer in Costa Rica, usually spent his shifts checking that workers in U.S. warehouses were observing COVID-19 protocols. But on one occasion, he saw something unsettling in his feed.
It was an Amazon break room, with chairs set out, very similar to the one in his own building. It gave him an uncanny sense of being observed. “Probably someone else, somewhere else, was watching me at the moment I was watching them,” he said.
Managers keep track of reviewers’ performance with real-time analytics and they must maintain a high accuracy rate, between 95 and 99.5%. Nitara, who took a job with Amazon in Bengaluru after university, failed to pass her probation period due to missing her accuracy targets.
“We were not allowed to make mistakes,” she said. “For me that was quite difficult to handle. I’m human, I’m not a robot.”
While they decide how to categorize a video, a timer on their screen counts how long they take. If they linger too long, their “takt” time — the average time to get through a video — will increase and they may be subject to retraining, disciplinary processes or even face losing their job.
“You can’t move or do anything,” said Prisha. “If you even give a little gap, your takt will increase and you may land up at the bottom.”
A document passed to the Bureau by a former reviewer in India shows the takt ranking system for 25 employees, with the bottom four names highlighted in red. The top performer has a takt time of 5.7 seconds; the bottom-ranked person 13 seconds.
Jiyan, another former reviewer based in India, said that while the targets were manageable, the work was still “stressful.” What bothered him most, though, was the monotony.
“It’s a very boring job,” he said. “The entire day, for seven and a half hours, you’re doing the same thing over and over again. There is nothing new.”
In Amazon’s peak period of October to December, reviewers said their work increased significantly, with less time between videos, and one said bathroom breaks were more difficult to take. Another India-based worker said he couldn’t take time off over the Hindu festival of Diwali.
Amazon said that workers in India had the option to take Diwali off, and the company’s spokesperson Kelly said workers in India and Costa Rica were “encouraged by the software they use to take short breaks throughout their shifts.”
Warehouse surveillance
In the summer of 2020 Amazon’s warehouse in Bolton, north-west England, was rolling out a new stowing system — known internally as Nike — that relied on computer vision and manual checks from workers in India and Costa Rica.
Workstations had been remodeled to include three new cameras trained on stowing stations, which would register the location of a product, largely eliminating the need for handheld scanners. Amazon said this would shave crucial seconds off the stowing of each item.
But Naomi, who worked at the warehouse at the time, found it difficult to adjust. “It was just quite nitpicky — the way you had to stand, the way you had to move,” she said. “You couldn’t really have your own freedom in the way you did things.”
To maximize the computer’s chance of success, stowers were told to ensure they were in view of the camera and to use “clean and straight movements” when putting an item away. In cases where the system failed, footage was sent to video reviewers to verify.
The new system was also rolled out at the California facility, where Jade, a former supervisor, would often start her day by reviewing error reports from previous shifts. “There were like 30 or 40 different rules of how things had to be specifically stowed,” she said.
Many of these reports, containing photos of the stowers’ violations, were generated by the new camera system. If enough of these errors accumulate, it could lead to a disciplinary process known as a “write-up.”
Amazon’s Kelly said:
“Stowing metrics are shared with employees and managers to identify strengths and opportunities for growth. We don’t use the Nike system information to coach associates on ‘stow etiquette violations.’ Nike cameras are programmed only for inventory purposes … Their focus is product placement.”
Jade would also check that workers were performing well in other key metrics: “rate,” or the number of units they stowed per hour, and “time off task,” or how long they were inactive outside of break times.
Isaac, a former stower at a Michigan warehouse, received a write-up after accumulating around four minutes of time off task. He was feeling unwell, and went to get some medication and use the bathroom at the end of his break. Despite explaining this to a manager, he still received a written warning.
Kelly said:
“Employees are reminded to take short breaks throughout the day, in addition to regularly scheduled longer breaks during each shift.”
Jade said she felt the productivity targets were set at a reasonable level, and people who tried could hit them. However, she also described the work as “mind-numbing.”
“Your brain just kind of dies slowly while you’re doing it,” she said. “Even though the people in Costa Rica aren’t doing the physical side, they’re doing the mind-numbing brain side. You’re treated like a robot.”
Proxemics and Amazon GO
During 2020, when COVID-19 protocols were in place across the world, the company said it would retool its machine learning systems to help enforce social distancing in its warehouses — a program it called Proxemics.
Workers in U.S. warehouses saw themselves displayed on large screens with a six-foot green circle around their feet. If they got too close to a colleague, the ring would turn red. And in cases where the computer was unsure how close they were, images were sent abroad for additional checks.
Thiago, who worked on the Proxemics team in Costa Rica, told the Bureau:
“It was a difficult job. I think it could be the worst one I ever did in my entire life.”
Like Prisha, he felt it was hard to look away from the screen if you wanted to maintain high metrics. “At the beginning, my eyes would cry,” he said. “Every six seconds or less, you get another image. It was crushing.
“It was difficult — to the point that you can’t look to the side because if you look to the side, you’ve already had 10 seconds on your screen.”
Sudip Bhattacharya, assistant professor at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Deoghar, said video reviewers are at risk of digital eye strain, symptoms of which include dry eyes, impaired vision and headaches. “If the resolution is low,” he said, “there is a risk of permanent eye damage.”
He also recommended screen breaks every 20-30 minutes, but some workers interviewed by the Bureau felt it was difficult or impossible to take breaks outside of their allotted times.
Thiago said he was given around six minutes each day as a designated “eye refresher,” with an additional 10 minutes to use the bathroom outside of scheduled break times.
When he was promoted to team leader he was given access to Amazon’s employee monitoring software, which tracks workers’ periods of inactivity. “They could tell how much time you didn’t touch something on the screen or you moved your mouse,” he said.
Reviewers have also worked on footage from Amazon Go grocery stores, which use computer vision to detect what a customer has purchased, billing their card automatically without the need to scan items through a checkout.
Amazon Go’s marketing trades heavily on the futuristic novelty of a largely automated store without checkouts. But in reality, the role of shop assistant has simply been outsourced to video reviewers in India.
Ishan, who worked on the Amazon Go team, said he got regular headaches from the work and was given just four minutes per day to use the bathroom outside of his scheduled breaks. “Some who are lucky will survive and the rest will have to leave,” he said. “An employee is a replaceable asset for them.”
“[It was] very minimal pay for the continuous high-level stress of a never-ending workload.”
Amazon said that employees are free to use the bathroom as needed and the accounts given to the Bureau do not represent the vast majority of those working on the team.
Workers in the dark
The workers being filmed by Amazon’s cameras know little about the people watching them from the other side of the world. Of the nine stow workers interviewed, just one said they were aware footage from their station could be sent to other countries for manual review.
And for their part, some workers in India and Costa Rica said they were unsure exactly how Amazon used the fruits of their labor. “We had no idea where this particular data was going,” one worker said. “We were never given such knowledge [of] what exactly is happening in the backend.”
In California, a new law aims to address the conditions endured by Amazon workers. Assembly Bill 701, which came into effect at the start of this year prohibits performance targets being set at a level that could pose a safety risk, or prevent sufficient bathroom or meal breaks.
It also gives warehouse workers the right to request three months’ worth of their own productivity data.
Lorena Gonzalez wrote the bill when she was a state representative and now heads the California Labor Federation. She was concerned about productivity metrics causing injuries in the workplace, and believed that giving workers access to their own data would be the first step in resisting management by algorithm.
“We wanted to make sure that they had the right to that information, especially if they felt like it violated their basic labor rights to health and safety,” Gonzalez said.
Amari, the stower in California, said the law had made a tangible difference in the warehouse and managers were no longer regularly reprimanding people for falling behind on their productivity rates — although workers could still be disciplined for other violations.
The work of a stower in California is very different from that of a video reviewer in India, but both are vital cogs in Amazon’s optimization machine. As they work, they are constantly generating new data points to refine the algorithmic tools that monitor and discipline them.
“The only way to fight back against [algorithmic management] is to refuse to go quicker,” Gonzalez said. “But an individual can’t do that alone.”
“Until workers come together and organize as a collective against the kind of speed-up that happens with computer management, then they’re just going to … require people to go faster and faster.”
*Names have been changed
Originally published by The Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
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“Were sorry/you’re no longer needed, or wanted, or even cared about here/
Machines can do a better job than you/
And this is what you get for asking question/
The unions agree sacrifices must be made
Computers never go on strike/
To save the working man you got to put him out to pasture . . .
The Dead Kennedys
“Soup is Good Food”
Frankincense 1985
Having employed a great many people in my time, I can say this with utmost certainty:
I would rather hammer my nuts with bricks than employ people. If there is any viable option whatsoever, I would never hire anyone, and would suggest any aspiring businessperson think about that – it is preferable to hammer one’s nuts with bricks than to employ someone. Having employees is most unpleasant.
As an employer you become responsible for your employee – you become responsible for anything stupid or dangerous that they do. You have to pay their taxes for them, you pay their insurance for them, their SS, various holiday payments. You cover them for injury, even if they do the most stupid of acts against your explicit instructions. You personally pay for their fuck ups. If you have 100 employees, you will be actively trying to fire as many as 20% of them at any given moment. Some of them will steal from you. Almost all of them will steal time, at a minimum. If you ever tell an employee “no” to any request they make, you will likely have a dissatisfied employee. You will have to plan for them not coming to work on a regular basis. Etc etc etc.
I currently do not employ anyone, after having done so steadily for decades. Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, I am free at last.
I am dead serious. Employing people, especially if you own the business, defines hell on earth. Yes, there are many good employees. But even they are excruciatingly painful to employ. You will never wake up and say, gee, it is such a wonderful day because I get to employ Bob, a really great employee. No. Employing Bob will still suck ass. It is the nature of the beast.
So, to all those unfortunate Amazon employees, I say this: that sucks. But employing you is no bed of roses, either.
.
Great article,remeber it,sad part is the issues stated are even worse 8 years later.
Serious question brother.
So this last summer I tore out of the wifes parentals place a kitchen that was not only old and poorly built but wasn’t even finished. The mom had literally 28″ of counter and had been this was when they built it.
These are the cheapest people on the planet. They bought, back in 74 a house kit, which was more like a cabin by the lake house kit. The cheapest they could buy. An octagonal house with a small square bedroom pod on one end. Each wall is 12′, so its not a big place and there is nothing square in any fashion if you know what I mean.
So I did a tear out and rebuild on the kitchen, piece by piece because they were still here. My first cabinet builds. My problem is we have no income so yeah, I have to do things on the cheap no. I know you are a really big fan of OSB so would like your input or ideas. If you don’t mind.
A new counter top here in canukistan is 1200 – $1800. Buys a lot of groceries. I topped the cabinets with osb for now as I run outta time for shop work. Shop isn’t heated and its about 10F so tools are a little frosty.
My question. Whats a cheap, long(ish) lasting and somewhat nice finish I can put down ? I have a bunch of other reno’s so I need to get something down and come back to it later for a better finish type of job. What I did with the OSB was to put some polyurethane down to seal the surface. I’ll leave it down and put a real counter top over it, is my thoughts. Suggestions?? other than burning the place to the ground. Thx. Pics are where I ended before cold weather rolled in.
First off,when monies not a issue,I use many layered birch ply for me cabinet boxes(only done a few custom meself).You need to use the osb would try and coat all being a kitchen(moisture)near the lake(moisture),you get the idea.That said,unless you have a pipe leak badly ect. you will probably be all right.
I have to say,the osb finished really does not look too bad from camera angle/flash.
Seems like you have a 1″height difference between stove/counter at moment,perhaps particle board with laminate,hear me out,get some stuff looks like marble/granite not too bad price wise and looks good.Any piece not covered with laminate gets sealed first,(moisture/kitchen/lake air).
You could also go with a underlayment ply and do a tile job on counter and back splash with a nice wood surround,need to take into account tile/set mix and underlayment to reach stove level(36″ height unless a esoteric custom height).
I find laminate easy to work with/forgiving for most part/damaged down road,well,skuff sand and run a new piece over it,seems the cheapest/will work well to me without seeing in person(remember,permanently banned from leafland!).
I feel from look/kitchen as long as solid and not looking like crap they are happy,tis a lake house!
I will say a heavy cut board nice to have if tenderizing meat with a hammer as laminate will not like that(nor tile).
Tile is time consuming, but doable, and it sounds like a better option to me for a budget. I have done tile in kitchens and bathrooms, but not professionally.
Good eye. I allowed for room to over lay the OSB which I thought either a laminate or concrete. Haven’t done either before, this in my first kitchen reno. I made the carcasses all from 5/8 melamine so its sealed and caulked the edges so water shouldn’t be an issue, unless it sits for a while.
I have a fair amount of wood that I used for making CBG’s. Birch, elm, some oak, cherry, and a few others. I never use softwoods like pines, firs etc
I’m thinking if I slab it up into lengths and glue it together like butcher block. Whadda yah think?? I’m thinking lay it over the OSB. I have about a quart of food grade oil I could treat it with. Wifes pappy turned bowls. I have a large resaw bandsaw, 3″ blades that would make short order of any wood I need slabbed.
Ken
I’m not so great with tiles. def not my forte’ so I tend to stay away from things I’m terrible at.
But many thx gents for suggestions
I say you have the stock a butcher look would be epic.I do wonder figure weight and are you cozy boxes would hold me only ?You want to go crazy with it(I am cosmically bored at times),you could if ya’s dare lace the angle with strips back and forth over the 22.5 degree(?)angle left side,would look cool as hell but a lot of extra cuts.
I say might start with small box on the right of stove and see how it goes before going all in length wise to see how it looks and time ect.
That said,what you going to do about backsplash if not cozy with tile?
You realize as soon as Patriot sees this and notices I did not recommend burning the whole thing down due to osb he is going to sharpen his knife to cut me a new orifice!
Each drawer set is its own carcass and the walls are all 5/8 melamine. So two side by side I think will handle just about as much weight as I could stack onto it. So whether butcher block, stone, concrete, I don’t think it will matter much. Plus I’ll leave the OSB to help strengthen and spread the weight. Whether that works in real, I dunno but its the story I’m running with.
I’m not adverse to the cutting differing patterns and angles. Where I get constrained is in the time. I have a LOT of work to do and its just me myself and I doing it all. Actually the other two are lazier than shit and stand around watching me work.
I think I can do the wall tile easily enough if I go with the 1′ x 2′ tiles and top them with a wood trim. Then they just have to stick to the wall and leveling isn’t a big deal.
As for the new orifice… I’ll run interference for ya
I like the butcher block idea,guess you might need ply(dare I say it/osb(nah) to lay your pattern?),I think this is the best result personally/despite the work to make it happen.
I grew up with a 6″ joiner and a 15″planer so to me this tis easy work/feel you are size required may take a bit longer but feel you will prevail,you have done well so far,the final project close!
For the counters, poured concrete works well. Pretty cheap and indestructible.
James May – Manlab – Counter top.
I have never done the concrete counter though interested,wonder though,if the boxes are strong enough frames to support such a effort.
Probably OK. A couple of 1x2x 1/4″ steel angles could be screwed into the inside corners of the cabinets for peace of mind.
Oh,also,for folks interested you can get a powder to color said concrete counter tops.
Good tip.
You can also brush in a skim coat over the mold release agent before pouring the rougher concrete so you get a nice smooth finish. I have seen some ‘marbled’ skim coats that look like the real thing.
Part of the retaining wall I built. I used red and black oxides to make the color patterns. Both the fake brick and the capstones.
I could so similar for a counter top… thoughts?
That looks great! If you can pull that off, I think a counter top should be pretty easy for you.
Another how to.
Yep. Thats one of the options I was looking at. I think the carcasses I built would be plenty strong enough to hold the weight. Each drawer set is a stand alone as thats how I had to do the reno when the wifes parents were still here. A little at a time.
I think I would put additional cross pieces in the larger carcasses to help spread the weight out. I also have some red and some black iron oxide to color it if I go that way. options
The employer/employee relationship is a two way street that works sometimes and not other times.
I have had the joy of working for some of the greatest folks who taught me a trade/made the work day fun//while also being a great/productive outfit(win for all).I thru the years applied these skills for other bosses some good/some bad,and,would teach new folks some basics so they were better workers and felt they enjoyed/looked forward to learning new things.I was also the guy not allergic to insulation itches and thus always got that suck job but was fine with it/I also loved digging sauna tube holes and me best boss appreciated that and said despite me skills/licenses/tools/certs. was glad to see me willing to eat the garbage work still.Mike(me boss for over 10 years)was a good boss/a better friend/a great dad who died way the fuck to young.
The one thing about not being married was no wife/kids to support and thus with the shit bosses/foreman ect. would leave at drop of a hat and have new work as soon as I wanted(tended to take extended vacations!).
One time I gave me notice by taking out the windshield of the foremans pickup with me framing hammer on a Friday, we got out early in the parking lot of a restaurant/bar and calmly walked back in to astonished coworkers/foreman and the rest of the patrons(big window overlooked parking lot)/finished me beer/lit a smoke and then walked out,fucking epic!A long story as to why happened,any interested will tell it.
So,I hope I taught some folks some skills/certainly used said skills to help friends/family with their own homes for price of a six pack/teach me friends kids skills in carpentry and auto ect.
I do small work now that works out fine solo but realize the value of a good helper/partner when needed on jobs I may get in future,as I said,the boss/worker relationship is a two way street.
The bathroom is the most expensive room in the shop. The bathroom costs at least 50/hr. Workers sitting in here and disturbing others on their way to and from. People will take the tp. Flood the floor. Save up shit from home and spend the first half hour there being personally productive. And how many go to the bathroom to do social media??? These jag offs make the bathroom such a drag on production and profit.
I have to agree with james. I too have had the opportunity to employ and be employed. I’ve had some really great bosses and some really crappy ones. And I think there have been more crappy ones than good. Its like an US against THEM.
But I’m old skool who practices the art of honesty in all I do. When I was starting out in electrical my boss could drop me off and leave. Knowing that when he came back I was working and the proof was in the pudding. I never asked for raises, but I always got them.
When the employer, I treated employees the way I was treated. Yes, there are the lazy, liars and dishonest people, but they are everywhere. Employees are expensive, especially when they screw up, but thats business and accidents happen. I expect an honest days work for the pay given, its a contract. You do X and I give you Y, fair trade. Fair warnings will be given which the stupid ones will ignore and you send them packing.
Definitely owning and running a business is tough and stressful. The bigger the biz the more stress as there is more at stake. The employees don’t run the show and are not entitled to the profits as they risk nothing. The trick for employers is to be fair and clear, imo. Clear instructions and requirements, if not followed means cya.
As for scamazon, bezos is a scumsuck’n dirtball in every way. But elon, the white hat will help save his biz with brain implants to turn these human workers into the proper droids they need to be.
“but thats business and accidents happen”.
I have never believed that. In my own business, I very rarely made mistakes – accidents don’t happen, someone makes a bad decision, doesn’t think about what they are doing, doesn’t plan and execute, etc. If it is your own money, amazing how few accidents happen. I made some, over the years, and can remember almost all of them. The biggest one cost me $20k or so. It still pisses me off. It was a mistake where I didn’t know what I didn’t know. But employees routinely cost me more than that.
Any time an accident happened, no matter how big or small, there were consequences for the person who caused it. No exceptions. I don’t believe in accidents. I didn’t pay people to have accidents. Mostly, people got warned. Other times, like the time the fucking shit for brains who dropped the brand new tens of thousands of dollar milling machine off the back of the delivery truck after I had told him not to touch it while I went to get the appropriate rated chains but he knew better and used an unrated chain that snapped when he used it the minute I walked away, got flung off the property. And that shit for brains was my most important tradesman, and still did something so stupid and insubordinate that it got him fired on the spot.
Accidents don’t just happen as a rule. Stupid, lazy, careless cause them to happen.
Employees are torture, as the article posted about the man under the bridge says.
Hmmmmm…..,seems if you hired so many “idiots” perhaps the boss is the cause of many” accidents”.I guess with a machine shop with cnc you can run it yourself these days to a large degree.
So if the rated chain snapped then that too would have not been an accident?? A piece of equipment fails and that too isn’t an accident?? A communications breakdown, is who’s fault?? I do agree that a tradesman who screws up royally should be fired as you are supposed to be a professional and know what you are doing.
BUT, if you are so adversarial as to state there are no accidents and its all somebodies fault, to me means you are the bulk of the problem. If you can’t account for others fucking up then the biggest problem is you as you’ll take that anger straight to the people working for you. Few like working for an intolerant ranting asshole.
I don’t know that you do or do not rant on employees but I suspect its part of the equation. These people don’t share the same intensity and dedication in your business as you do. They don’t put in the same freak’n long hours and no pay that you have when you started out. Funny thing is, they never will.
But whatever, you can run your business anyway you like. My experiences are completely different than yours. Some employees were a lot of fun, and worked hard. And I paid them well and my only real demands were they got the job done timely and done well. At the end of the day I call the shots and the job doesn’t get finished until it passes my standards and the customers are happy. Which is another aspect of business, the customer. sigh
I have been very successful running businesses. I don’t make excuses, and I don’t accept them. In my entire experience, which is extensive, I have never seen a chain rated for two tons fail when lifting two tons, or one ton. It just doesn’t happen. Equipment can fail, but if it fails because of operator error, lack of prescribed maintenance, etc.m then that is not an accident but a fuck up. I don’t tolerate fuck ups – anyone fucking up can expect consequences. Communication errors are also not accidents. They are fuck ups. The message needs to be sent, received, and the sender needs to verify both that it was received and understood. It is a simple process. Follow-up is critical in business and consumed a great percentage of my time. Anyone responsible for communicating must do it. Simply saying “but I told him/ sent him an email/etc” is not good enough.
Who said I ranted? It almost never happened. The only times I ranted at an employee was when I was trying to keep from firing some young person who needed a wake up call, it was done intentionally, and it was an act, and happened under 5 times in my career, while, as I said, trying to teach a young person about work and to try to wake them up. It only worked once, though, but was worth the effort. I didn’t even rant at the fuckwit that dropped the mill. I told him he was fired and to fuck off of my premises. What I did was tell employees that when they screwed up that they had screwed up, that screw ups are not acceptable, that they need to lift their game, and to don’t let it happen again.
If you want to let your employees fuck up without consequence, be my guest. Me, I pay them not to fuck up, and to do their jobs correctly. Every time.
And I give them what they need to be able to do that, and I leave them alone to do it. My employees either stayed with me a very long time, or left in the first year. I wasn’t unfair, I wasn’t harsh, I wasn’t abusive. I had high expectations, I demanded what I paid them for, and I gave them all huge autonomy. Either employees valued that, or they didn’t. The best did. The worst didn’t.
I managed businesses with thousands of employees, and medium sized businesses. That is how I did it, it always worked. But having employees was torture.
I have accidents all the time on the farmstead. I think of them as learning experiences.
On the flip side, I tell my son to figure out a way to work for himself instead of some prick. I’ve also found that working with women is a pain in the ass.
Yes, women are also not fun. And as most managers are horrible at what they do, if your son can avoid working with or for them, all the better.
Here in the United States of today — with all of the permissive drug use — I’d be inclined to agree with your position about being against hiring employees. Plus add all of the victim groups and the D I E nonsense and you’ve got the fixings of a business failure at the drop of a hat.
You are full of shit.
I had a cleaning business, and every one of my employees were undocumented, low-skilled, Mexicans.
I trained them in everything, including how to get to work on time.
They worked their asses off for me, and did great work. I only ever had to fire one.
And today, 15 years later, they still call me to catch up.
Maybe try not to be the massive dick your comments reveal you to be.
So, anonymous runs his business illegally, by his own admission, and wants to give me instruction on how to run a business. To my knowledge I never once, not once, committed an illegal act in any of my business dealings. And I sure as hell never hired illegal immigrants. This dickhead brags about it. Unfuckingbelievable.
And amazing that employees that are working illegally might work hard, to keep from being turned in to the authorities.
What a low life scumbag.
Techno-plantation
Every business is looking for “workers”. Why would anyone choose to work there?
Why would anyone choose to hire them?
With the burn out rate it’s no wonder Amazon is going to run out of people to hire soon. This whole thing sounds like a Black Mirror episode.
Elon’s brain implants into peon workers will help turning them into proper droids.
These are the droids you are looking for.
No they aren’t. That is just plain stupid. They will be able to get workers. And besides, they are doing their level best to automate as many jobs as possible out of existence.
Someone here is stupid and it’s the person that doesn’t read.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/22/amazon-workers-shortage-leaked-memo-warehouse
Gee, seems that article says in some future period in the US there will be problems. All western nations are in that boat, as people get paid not to work. But internationally in say India there will be no problems. And you quote an article that is very short on detail. A nice recession will change things massively.
Llpoh,
I finally had time to come back and read this post and thread tonight and the candidness of your first (December 2, 2022 8:03 am) comment (way above) made me laugh out loud. I got such a kick out of it I read it to my wife and she laughed too.
In my own experience, I learned how to partner with other business owners who employed people so I didn’t have to.
It was mutually beneficial – but especially for me.
Uncola – thank you. You were smart to avoid the hiring while running a successful business. This is something a person knows, or doesn’t. Some people only learn by picking up a cat by the tail that it is a bad idea, no matter how much you advise them not to do so. Your wife sounds like she is wise to this stuff.
We both grew wise to that stuff together and it was at her urging that I went the way I did. Cash is king but payroll is an ever approaching army. And, then, all the other stuff too
There are always new slaves crossing the open border.
I would quit and get a better job or start a small business. I always wondered if anyone with a gun was going to shoot the traffic cameras on the freeway. Lately, I wonder about A.I. and if someone will eventually destroy the system that makes digital slavery possible. It’s amazing what guns and gasoline and a lighter can do. Remember there are only so many people trying to force their will on you.
I have contact with railroad workers and they mentioned having no sick leave even though they are union. Most non-union places in my town offer sick pay that is earned with time.
I for some reason feel a lot of rail workers will be getting”Sick” around Dec.9,and need to stay home even though they have no sick days out of respect for their co-workers and not getting them sick,just a feeling…..
Wow compliant slaves obeying their master. I don’t understand how anyone could tolerate the working conditions. Fear of hunger perhaps.
Yeah I worked in one of those fucking Amazon shithouses around 14 years ago. Hired before the busy Christmas season just to go around picking stuff off shelves, pack boxes, and move them onto trucks for 12 hrs / day / 7 days a week. Sound easy . . ?
Before they started with robots, Amazon would hire like a half dozen goons to follow everybody around all day long. That was their sole responsibility.
The first minute a goon spotted somebody who wasn’t sprinting down aisles…. or wasn’t racing to run someone down with a forklift, they’d pull you aside and just start threatening you in your face. They’d tell you you’re slow and shouldn’t be working here, and if they just didn’t like you for the way you looked, you were terminated on the spot
It wasn’t that bad as far as extra money goes for the holiday season from 7:00 a.m. to 7. p.m. Those fucking goons though watching every single move and following you into the bathrooms made it a fucking dreaded place to go every day
Some of this is truly old hat — and right here in the United States in unionized corporations.
I personally know of a (former) United States flag air carrier whose reservation sales agents were timed on their phone calls down to the 1/10 of one second … and their bathroom breaks were timed in the same fashion.
These AMZN folks get 1 1/4 hours of breaks in an 8 or 9 hour day … that union shop flag air carrier got 30 minutes of lunch and 2 breaks of 10 minutes each … and that was in California — land of all sorts of ridiculous corporate regulations.
The old saying is to the effect that there’s nothing new under the Sun — a polite version of SSDD …
Invisible hand of the free market at work!