- Job quality decreases, more hours have to be worked to get the same effect.
- Unstable households produce unstable students. Education quality begins to suffer.
- Parents don’t want to imagine they are doing a shitty job, they blame the schools.
- Schools lower their academic demands until any fucking idiot can pass.
STEP ONE – Illegal Aliens
Building a wall is stupid and expensive, the only reason its getting so much hype is because flashy and people have short attention spans. Maintenance on that monstrosity would be ball-breaking.
Instead, kill the problem at the root. Corporations already have to supply proof that they are employing US citizens. Now enforce the fucking rule, and slap companies that knowingly employ illegal aliens with massive fines. Much like how foreign banks won’t touch US citizens with a 10 ft pole due to IRS rules, US companies won’t touch illegal labor with a 10 foot pole.
All of a sudden all of those shitty low level jobs that the unskilled or uninspired once held will be open again. Not only that, but you remove a huge drain on the education system.
STEP TWO – Trade Imbalance
Institute tariffs on all overseas goods produced in nations without labor laws comparable to US Federal regulations. Ya know, OSHA and all that shit. Why? Well, right now we are rewarding shitty countries with fat American contracts while we force our companies to fight blindfolded with one hand tied behind their backs. By enforcing some parity between import and American producers, we encourage manufacturing and other jobs to come back home.
A unilateral harsh tariff leads to stagnancy in the private sector, so the trick here is only to punish the countries that are using what amounts to slave labor to complete the jobs. Punishing Japan for building better cars or Germany for building better instrumentation is stupid. We have to have competition or ingenuity dies, but right now we are cutting our own throats with shitty trade policies.
STEP THREE – Educate first
Kill Common Core. Kill Zero Tolerance. Kill No Child Left Behind.
Honestly, there are a large number of countries around the globe with better educational systems than what we have. I’m not going go into depth here.
One requirement: Children (and parents) must be allowed to fail. Compromising quality for feelings got us here in the first place.
STEP FOUR – Student Loans
- Student loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy. – Punish usury, don’t reward it.
- Public colleges must have entrance requirements. You can’t enter without meeting them. Can’t draw loans without meeting them.
- Currently C and D’s get degrees. Doctors have to pass their boards. Chemists have to pass ACS requirements. Engineers have their own certification. Kill the “Cs and Ds” paradigm, and force students to perform or GTFO.
- Increase funding to schools. Removing funding altogether kills US higher education overnight. Giving away free college to everyone who can stand up, see straight, and hear thunder is also a no-go. Increase federal/state funding to schools, but also make it expensive enough that college students have to pay for the stuff. Similar to what it was like from 60s through 80s.
- Forgive TPC’s and his wife’s student loans. Cuz you like him so much. So friendly and shit.
“I think just letting guys go get their trades when they are 15 or 16 would be a game changer.”
Bingo. I read somewhere that George Washington became a land surveyor at about that age. Mandating by law that people must remain in school for 12 years is killing learning and creativity, especially when what is being taught is nonsense.
@ TPC. ahaha, you got me.
““I think just letting guys go get their trades when they are 15 or 16 would be a game changer.”
I’d agree with this as well, though I didn’t think it was important enough to include in my “only 4 steps” plan.
I begged, begged my parents to let me graduate high school early. I was burning out hard core. In order to keep some semblance of sanity I took all of the “higher ed” courses I could take. College courses, and computer networking classes, I graduated high school with a semester of college under my belt, as well as my 2 year certification from tech school.
The vast majority of 1˚/2˚ school is a crock of bullshit designed to keep kids locked up most of the day so parents can afford to go to work to feed the machine more.
Nothing will change for the better until we stop letting favored people steal other peoples stuff.
“Stucky, I appreciate that you can have a reasoned response to my assertions.” —- Moon dude
Why wouldn’t I be? lol I usually don’t fling shit, unless shit is first flung at me. But, not always. You seem like a reasonable dude, based on your other posts I’ve read.
But, imho, you’re just flat out wrong on the automation issue.
Look, this is true, and I believe you know it. We can never go back. We will never un-automate. It just doesn’t work that way.
(Of course, that’s barring a WWIII event, or EMP, or SMOD … or something else that sends humanity back to the stone age.)
Here is the problem I had. I was told that I was too smart to go to trade school. Even though what I really wanted to do was work making things. It ended up that I was terrible at school even though I finished University. Hardly matters now. I’m 50 and sitting at a desk. The world only needs so many smart people. The rest can be divided into 3 categories
1) people who make things
2) smart asses
3) dumb asses
I’d like to think of myself as being in second category although there are days when I fall into third.
Moon here seems to think if we just control production inputs and outputs there will be enough pie left for categories 2 and 3. I think it is foolish to think this. The producers will always have first cut of pie. We will always get what left over.
@Stucky – In addition to the stone age, you would have to kill all the people who had the knowledge that some of the real creators in this world have.
These are people who can keep a tractor running forever, both through their ability to cobble together parts, and from their ability to make diesel fuel.
Thats one small example.
Automation is not going anywhere, we’ve learned too much. Even if a worldwide EMP or w/e went off the creators of the world are like beavers – they are driven to build. Its their nature, and they embrace it wholly. The world is better off for these people being in it.
Humanity would remember the ways of the past, and would endlessly chase after it. The Dark Ages happened because Roman Ingenuity was highly centralized and dependent on the state. Today things are much more different, with building and manufacturing processes dispersed among the general populace.
“Automation is not going anywhere, we’ve learned too much. Even if a worldwide EMP or w/e went off the creators of the world are like beavers – they are driven to build. Its their nature, and they embrace it wholly. The world is better off for these people being in it.
Humanity would remember the ways of the past, and would endlessly chase after it. The Dark Ages happened because Roman Ingenuity was highly centralized and dependent on the state. Today things are much more different, with building and manufacturing processes dispersed among the general populace.”
TPC, this is profound. I believe you have put forth a positive vision of how the future might unfold after a Fourth Turning era. Knowledge and skills ARE widely dispersed, and more readily available than at any other time in human history. Knowledge, skills and resources not destroyed will be free of debt and can be redeployed. It is a vision of hope for an eventual rebirth of human progress. Thank You!
Moon says
“and third world sweatshop labor in places like southeast asia & Australia.”
Australia has the highest average wages in the world. Triple time on sundays means almost 50$/hr for min wage workers.
Wow! It gets interesting when somebody lights Llpoh’s fuse. You better get your poop in a group before crossing swords with him.
Hot damn, I missed a LLPOH post. Thats what he gets for posting consecutively.
“TPC – straw man my ass. My comment goes directly to your idiocy re letting students dump loans via bankruptcy.
Students are by definition bankrupt. No jobs, no wealth, no income, but plenty of debt. If they are allowed to dump their loans, they will en masse. Further, no one will lend to them if they can dump student loans in bankruptcy, because they are already bankrupt.”
The onus is on the lender to determine whether or not someone is worth lending to. Right now we make loans to everyone, but don’t let them discharge in bankruptcy. Its a dog and pony show, no substance. No money ever really appears anywhere, its just created 1s and 0s.
I’m advocating tougher metrics just to enter into college, let alone get any sort of financial assistance from anyone.
In short, the powers that be get to have their cake and eat it too, what I can’t believe in all of this is that you are perfectly accepting of a system that didn’t come into fruition until 2005 and now are acting like its always been this way.
What the fuck man, its a goddamned strawman and you fucking know it. Student loan lending is in no way similar to medical bankruptcy, an upside down mortgage, or a fucking payday loan. The government has picked a winner (the lenders) and enforces that ruling harshly.
I’m advocating that the lenders who made bad decisions get fucking burned for being bad at business.
If you are 100% against bankruptcy then fucking fine, lets argue that point, but stop sanctimoniously preaching from on high against an imaginary topic.
‘Murikan Edgeumahcation
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TPC writes:
“Schools were started and funded for decades on the back of government money. That history is as old as the Trail of Tears. In fact, during your own hay-day funding of public schools was…”
True. The problem is both countries – yours and mine – were a more homogeneous culture back then. There was also a hell of a lot lower level of corruption. You can’t go back to the glory days from here because as long as we are divided fifteen ways to Sunday and our political systems remain large and corrupt they cannot be fixed. The best you can do is defund it.
LLPOH writes:
“Forgive student loans? Hmmm. Let me think about that. Let some dickhead go several hundred grand in debt, come out of school, and declare bankruptcy (all college kids are bankrupt) immediately… a license to commit fraud on a massive scale.”
When you think about it student loans are (or can be) a form of fraud themselves. For many they are similar to indentured servitude – they cannot simply be discharged through bankruptcy and since it is highly likely that those receiving them are unqualified to execute the purpose for which the money was loaned and to then bear its fruit they are not so different from the mortgage loans made to those who were unable to pay them prior to 2008. In this sense they are a form of fraud. The solution being not in the ability of the debtor to have them discharged in court (since students are essentially bankrupt already) but rather in the punishment of those trying to supply them to unqualified candidates in the first place. Perhaps bankers making bad loans to unqualified applicants should face prison time… or at least a good tar and feathering.
So Francis, the Einstein that he is, wants to shift responsibility away from the individual making stupid decisions onto other entities or people. “Bwah, our cannot lan a fuckwit money! If you do we will put you in jail!” He wants to make someone else responsible for the stakes of grown men and women. Faking nanny state bullsht at ts very best.
Fucking brilliant. Just when I think it cannot get stupider around here, there it is.
Rob andStucky get it – penalise automation and the US will never again advance. Cannot get bigger tractors. Cannot get faster computers. Cannot use a welder if you are currently drilling by hand and bolting shit together. Moon is one dumb fucker.
TPC, you numbskull, twice you have called my statements “straw man”. Well, here is the definition.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person’s actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of “reasoning” has the following pattern: Person A has position X.
Now, that is nothing like what I did. I addressed your specific, idiotic idea, in detail. I did not ignore your position, I addressed it. Stick to chemistry because you obviously struggle with English. And you know I like you. You are just starting to annoy me some with that straw man bullshit when I am doing no such thing,
ACTUAL picture of Llpoh …. who shall henceforth be known as CHIEF Strawman
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hahaha
Ok Stuck. Payback is hell.
I am better looking than that. Just.
Typing on phone, this should be fun.
1. I assert student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy, like all other debt.
2. You state that that would be fraud.
3. I reply that its just like all other debt, and that by loaning money an entity is assuming risk and capitalism dictates losers should eat their losses, and not be allowed to ram through legislation that makes them special.
4. You state that youngsters will just commit fraud.
The strawman is that you are arguing on a tangent – “Student loan recipients are irresponsible and will commit fraud.”
Seems exaggerated to me.
Its a well crafted strawman, but you are a big dog so I would expwct nothing less. I now upgrade your position to…Wickerman!
Here’s the problem with discharging debt. It encourages even more retarded decision making by the student and the bank making the loan. There needs to be risk, moral hazard, otherwise it is dumb leading the blind.
I dont pay taxes so that some femtard can rack up a couple of hundred thousand in debt just so that she can get a job as community organizer making 25 grand a year and appearing at a rally near me. Then launching into some type of 3rd wave feminist tirade and demanding I hand over more fucking money because I am white, male and oppressing her dumb fat black ass.
I’d rather have her cleaning bedpans at local hospital. At least then I get to keep my money and she gets to do something useful.
A win win as far as I am concerned.
Llpoh writes:
“Fucking brilliant. Just when I think it cannot get stupider around here, there it is.”
Sometimes you remind me of Flash. You type like some people talk – for the sake of hearing their own voices. You’re arrogant, sometimes obnoxious and so sure that everything you write is fact and so sure of every one else’s stupidity that it never occurs to you just shut the fuck up and read/listen digest or think. In fact you rarely have anything to say here unless it is to criticize, obnoxiously, something which you disagree with. Maybe you have been in Australia for too long. I’ve rarely met an Aussie male over here who was’t a complete and total fucking asshole badly in need of having his balls kicked in. In fact I distinctly remember smashing some kangaroo fuckers nose through his face when I was about 21 because he thought he was the shit and didn’t know how to keep his mouth shut. So to help you from becoming some dingo chasing, coconut crab blowing dick let me help you out:
There is this thing called discussion. You can have it without being a total prick. You can find the definition here if you are unfamiliar with it:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/discussion
Nowhere did I suggest that the borrower was not at least equally complicit in the crime. All I am suggesting – particularly in a world where the tax payer tends to bear the burden of someone else’s stupid financial decisions (if you think that won’t happen with the current student loan debt bubble then you have more faith in the system than I do) – is that the lending institutions are also complicit in what is essentially a fraudulent transaction because they know ahead of time that it is unlikely the debt will be repaid to begin with. At the very least – and I say at the least – it is a major ethical issue.
Have a great night you Aussie prick. 🙂
To paraphrase Francis – “Blah blah fucking blah” And I have nothing to say?
You shot your mouth off by suggesting lenders should go to jail for lending to consenting adults, because you feel those consenting adults need protection. That is fucking bullshit. The biggest problem the world has is lack of personal responsibility, and there you are advocating an even larger nanny state.
Run away and hide you little pussy. You talk shit around here you get called for it. If you do not like it, too fucking bad.
Plus, Stuck loves me, and that is all that matters.
I have a question
What degree has more value
My Son’s Advanced Major with Honours in Mathematics
or
My friend’s Daughter’s degree in Sociology
Both went to same university. Both paid the same amount in tutition. Things are fucked up now. Too many persue useless degrees. It would be even worse if all the precious snowflakes could follow their
dreams and then dump the cost of their useless degrees on someone else. If a degrees tutition was based on its value maybe you’d have a case TPC but that isnt what is happening.
Everyone starts out by paying for a Cadillac but some end up butt hurt when they realize the car they buy is a Yugo. A bad choice no doubt. But one I should not 1have to pay for.
llpoh,
You’re such a fucking idiot. Personal responsibility doesn’t just extend to the borrower it also extends to the lender – especially in this day and age. It takes two to tango disphit. One to lead and one to follow. Both parties are guilty and as a result the rest of us suffer and if you’re too arrogant to admit you’re wrong on this one then you really are just another know it all, blowhard Aussie who is badly in need of having his balls kicked in.
And while we’re at it – the gov’t fucktards who set it up this way should also get tarred and feathered. When the general public STOPS being liable for bad decisions made by borrowers AND lenders then you’ll finally have a leg to stand on. Until then the only reason you have to argue this point is that your fragile Aussie man-pussy ego is hurt.
Francis – what a load of bullshit. You want to make the lender responsible for the borrowers mistakes. The lender is responsible for his losses if he fucks up. Nothing more nor less. Student loans are non-dischargeable as otherwise no one would loan students anything. Make it a crime to loan money? Horseshit. Remove the bankruptcy clause is fine by me but a mistake. But make lenders responsible criminally if borrowers cannot pay? Bullshit.
BTW – I do not think any loans should be dischargeable. But that is just me.
llpoh,
Believe it or not I feel the same way as you do about loans. If you do the crime be prepared to do the time. The problem is that since 2008 the banks are NOT responsible for their losses. They know it – they make risky loans, they package them up and when they blow up the rest of us get to pay for it. THAT is criminal behaviour. Until that aspect of our financial system changes we have a problem.
I’d also like to point out that when a loan goes bad the lender can reposses the chattel that was used as colateral. Although sometimes it would be beneficial for everyone if loanee unlearned the retardation it cant be done for obvious reasons. They get to walk away and reproduce. Sending another generation to march into the maw of higher education.
Francis – the best TBP fights are when folks believe the same thing, but fight about the details. That is when it gets exciting around here. It is tame these days, but it was once the Wild West.
Here is my concern:
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This is NOT sustainable.
And while student loans may not be cleared in bankruptcy there are other ways to avoid paying them.
Additionally the old saying you can’t get blood from a stone holds as true here as anywhere. As the economy collapses and more debt is incurred the money simply will not be repaid even as the debt continues to grow. This means the productive will pay. The banks will get off Scott free – again – and the bonuses will continue to flow.
Unless you can see another outcome to this cluster fuck that doesn’t involve pixie dust and unicorn farts (cause as much as I _believe_ if you borrow it you should it pay it back this doesn’t mean it is actually going to happen) I think we’re headed for a problem.
“Francis – the best TBP fights are when folks believe the same thing, but fight about the details. That is when it gets exciting around here. It is tame these days, but it was once the Wild West.”
Yep.
The system needs a complete reset. Nothing can be done because of rules, regulations, laws, and precedents piled on top of each other in intertwined layers, making change impossible. Small tweaks to the system, regardless of intent, result in enormous backlash from entrenched interests. Individuals desiring positive change are quickly isolated and eventually weeded out. The system is self-serving and it’s original function is no longer a factor in any decisions made. Like a dilapidated house, it is not in need of a fresh coat of paint, but a controlled burn.
This is true of everything in our society today, not just the education system. If we do not have the collective maturity to perform a voluntary reset (we don’t, btw) the laws of the universe will eventually perform one for us.