CHINA & U.S. – WAR IS INEVITABLE

Why do countries go to war?

  1. One or both countries are led by maniacs (Hitler, Stalin, Tojo) 
  2. Opposing political systems (Capitalism, Communism)
  3. Necessity for resources or land (Japan, Germany)
  4. Accident due to treaties & alliances (WWI)
  5. Seccession or internal political issues (Revolutionary War, Civil War)

China is tired of playing second fiddle to the U.S. They are already kicking our asses economically. They have us by the balls as they own $900 billion of our debt. We need to issue $1.5 trillion of new debt every year for the next 5 years. We need the Chinese to buy a good chunk of this debt. The Chinese know that. They also know that Bernanke is trying to screw them by devaluing the USD.

They are converting their USD into hard assets. They are buying up natural resouces like mines and oil wells. They are signing deals with Iran, Venezuela, and African nations to tie up oil resources. They are buying gold. They have most of the rare earths in the world and aren’t sharing. Now it seems they are using those USD to build missiles and other high tech military hardware.

The US Navy revolves around their 11 aircraft carriers. We are in the process of building 3 new aircraft carriers at a cost of $14 billion each. The Chinese have perfected a new missile that will put these outmoded WWII antiques at the bottom of the sea. The US is preparing for the last war. China is preparing for cyber war using satellites, computer hackers, and high tech missiles.

China and the US both need oil. The supplies of oil are depleting. Economic tensions are already high. As oil becomes more precious, the US and China will be competing for the same supply sources. Any economic collapse experienced by either country will significantly increase tensions between the countries. These issues are a powder-keg and both countries will be lighting matches. I expect armed conflict with China to commence between 2015 and 2020, as would be expected in the Fourth Turning Crisis. World War erupted 12 years after the onset of the last Fourth Turning. A similar scenario would result in major war around the year 2017. It is our destiny.

China preparing for armed conflict ‘in every direction’

China is preparing for conflict ‘in every direction’, the defence minister said on Wednesday in remarks that threaten to overshadow a visit to Beijing by his US counterpart next month.

China preparing for armed conflict 'in every direction'

By Peter Foster, Beijing 1:30PM GMT 29 Dec 2010

“In the coming five years, our military will push forward preparations for military conflict in every strategic direction,” said Liang Guanglie in an interview published by several state-backed newspapers in China. “We may be living in peaceful times, but we can never forget war, never send the horses south or put the bayonets and guns away,” Mr Liang added.

China repeatedly says it is planning a “peaceful rise” but the recent pace and scale of its military modernisation has alarmed many of its neighbours in the Asia-Pacific, including Japan which described China’s military build-up as a “global concern” this month.

Mr Liang’s remarks come at a time of increasingly difficult relations between the Chinese and US armed forces which a three-day visit by his counterpart Robert Gates is intended to address. A year ago China froze substantive military relations in protest at US arms sales to Taiwan and relations deteriorated further this summer when China objected to US plans to deploy one of its nuclear supercarriers, the USS George Washington, into the Yellow Sea off the Korean peninsula.

China also announced this month that it was preparing to launch its own aircraft carrier next year in a signal that China is determined to punch its weight as a rising superpower. The news came a year earlier than many US defence analysts had predicted.

China is also working on a “carrier-killing” ballistic missile that could sink US carriers from afar, fundamentally reordering the balance of power in a region that has been dominated by the US since the end of the Second World War.

A US Navy commander, Admiral Robert Willard, told Japan’s Asahi Shimbun newspaper this week that he believes the Chinese anti-ship missile, the Dong Feng 21, has already achieved “initial operational capability”, although it would require years of testing.

Analysts remain divided over whether China is initiating an Asian arms race. Even allowing for undeclared spending, China’s annual defence budget is still less than one-sixth of America’s $663bn a year, or less than half the US figure when expressed as a percentage of GDP.

However in a speech earlier this year Mr Gates warned that China’s new weapons, including its carrier-killing missile, “threaten America’s primary way to project power and help allies in the Pacific”, underscoring the difficulties that lie ahead as China and the US seek to contain growing strategic frictions.

As China modernises, Mr Liang pledged that its armed forces would also increasingly use homegrown Chinese technology, which analysts say still lags behind Western technology even as China races to catch up.

“The modernisation of the Chinese military cannot depend on others, and cannot be bought,” Mr Liang added, “In the next five years, our economy and society will develop faster, boosting comprehensive national power. We will take the opportunity and speed up modernisation of the military.”

Chinese missile shifts power in Pacific

By Kathrin Hille in Beijing

Published: December 28 2010 11:58 | Last updated: December 28 2010 11:58

A new Chinese anti-ship missile that will significantly alter the balance of military power in the Pacific is now operational, according to a senior US commander.

Admiral Robert Willard, the top US commander in the Pacific, said the Chinese ballistic missile, which was designed to threaten US aircraft carriers in the region, had reached “initial operational capability”.

His remarks signal that China is challenging the US ability to project military power in Asia much sooner than many had expected.

The US and other countries in the Pacific region are increasingly concerned at the speed with which China is developing its naval power. Japan, for example, recently decided to refocus its military on the potential threat from China.

“So now we know – China’s [anti-ship ballistic missile] is no longer aspirational,” Andrew Erickson, an expert on the Chinese military at the US Naval War College, said in response to Adm Willard’s comments to the Asahi newspaper.

Defence analysts have called the Dongfeng 21 D missile a “game changer” since it could force US aircraft carriers to stay away from waters where China does not want to see them. These include the Taiwan Strait where a potential conflict could develop over the self-ruled island which China claims.

The land-based missile is designed to target and track aircraft carrier groups with the help of satellites, unmanned aerial vehicles and over-the-horizon radar. Aircraft carriers and their accompanying ships are unable to defend themselves against such a threat.

Aware of the missile’s development, the Pentagon has already started considering ways to counter the new threat, including a new concept for more closely integrated navy and air force operations.

Robert Gates, US defence secretary, said in September, the development of such a missile would force the Pentagon to rethink the way carriers were deployed.

“If the Chinese or somebody else has a highly accurate anti-ship cruise or ballistic missile that can take out a carrier at hundreds of miles of ranges and therefore in Asia puts us back behind the second island chain, how then do you use carriers differently in the future?” Mr Gates asked.

The second chain of islands runs from the Bonins along the Marianas, Guam and Palau, forming a north-south line east of Japan and the Philippines. This line defines what China sees as its “near seas” – waters in which the US navy now frequently operates and are home to US naval bases and allies such as Japan and South Korea.

Adm Willard noted this year that China’s anti-ship ballistic missile was undergoing extensive testing and was close to deployment. Observers believe China started production of missile motors last year and that the Chinese military is preparing a nuclear missile base in the southern city of Shaoguan for their deployment.

Defence analysts have also linked several missile flight tests this year to the new weapon but no conclusive evidence has been available to date.

Adm Willard’s latest comments appear to remove any doubts. The term “initial operational capability” as used by the Pentagon indicates that some military units have started deployment of the weapon and are capable of using it.

Mr Erickson said: “Beijing has successfully developed, tested, and deployed the world’s first weapons system capable of targeting a moving carrier strike group from long-range, land-based mobile launchers.” .

Adm Willard said the new Chinese weapon was still not fully-operational and would probably undergo testing for “several more years”. The key remaining step is a comprehensive test of the entire system at sea, which is much more difficult than test flights over land.

China also needs to deploy more satellites to ensure seamless tracking of a moving target at sea. But defence experts warn that the weapon would immediately be a threat to US carriers because China could make up for a lack in accuracy by launching larger numbers of missiles.

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Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
January 1, 2011 4:28 pm

Attention all previous posters who sided with Smokey, please send him flowers while he recovers in the hospital. I heard the Stephen Hawking has donated his computer to Smokey so that he may continue to log on for his daily thrashings.
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Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 4:31 pm

SSS—–Nice. So true.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 4:34 pm

This entire discussion began because of my disagreement with the Administrator of the possibility of war for oil. -Pokey

Read my lips. There has ALREADY been a war for oil, by overthrowing Saddam and installing western friendly leaders, and China helped finance it.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 4:42 pm

BTW, chattering chacma, I said conflict in my post @3:58pm. Re-read it. I didnt say military operation. Dolt.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 4:45 pm

[imgcomment image[/img]
Making Smokey Salivate One Monkey Testes At A Time
comment image

SSS
SSS
January 1, 2011 5:27 pm

Admin said, “The Dong Feng missile is new. How do you know that the Aegis system will defeat it. You don’t. Your analysis is sorely lacking.”

Well, the Aegis has been successfully tested dozens of times, including by the Japanese Navy. It has been operationally DEPLOYED by the hundreds on a whole bunch of ABM cruisers. Google it. According to the Chinese, the Dong Feng has reached “initial operational capability (IOC).” IOC means, “We think it will work.” It will take the Chinese years more of testing (should be interesting how they will do that) before it is ready to be operationally DEPLOYED.

The Aegis has already defeated dozens of credible offensive missiles developed to hit surface ships. It will defeat the Dong Feng should the U.S. Navy decide to put a carrier inside the Dong Feng’s range, about 1,300 miles. But that’s not a given. You can’t destroy something that’s outside the range of what you intend to destroy it with.

One more thing. The Dong Feng’s guidance system partly depends on tracking information sent to the missile from satellites. The Chinese have yet to launch enough satellites to insure that the missile’s accuracy is sufficient to destroy a carrier.

Any further questions? I didn’t think so.

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
January 1, 2011 5:38 pm

Peak oil has no historical precedence, it will end the way we function as a society. Never before has anything remotely close to peak oil occurred. To think mankind will not go to war for a dwindling resource that is vital to every part of our way of life is so stupendously closed minded it defies all logical belief.

Shit, STD ridden crack whores kill each other over street corners, and a war for oil is unrealistic. OK.

SSS
SSS
January 1, 2011 5:54 pm

Punk said, “To think mankind will not go to war for a dwindling resource that is vital to every part of our way of life is so stupendously closed minded it defies all logical belief.”

The issue is China and the U.S. going to war over oil, not mankind. And comparing superpower and emerging superpower governments to crack whores is way out there. No wonder Smokey got frustrated with this discussion.

SSS
SSS
January 1, 2011 6:03 pm

Admin

Oh, my. You lost the Dong Feng discussion to my far superior experience with warfare in general and weapons systems in particular, so it’s on to submarines. Sorry, I’m finished with educating you and Punk today. The bell has rung. Class dismissed. It’s recess. Back to your tag team tactics with Smokey.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 6:18 pm

SSS——-This shit with Punk and Administrator is a fucking joke. I mean, this is easier than winning by default. This is shooting fish in a barrel. Once again, for the FUCKING IDIOTS, by the time the USA attacks these other countries there may be ten to fifteen years oil supply left. The military engagement with China would either go nuclear, which would wipe out probably half the planet, maybe all of it.. Or it would be fought with ground troops and cost TRILLIONS of dollars and millions of lives. You FUCKING idiots are assuming our government does this with the consent of its electorate? Or will we do it as a totalitarian regime? And for a supply of oil that won’t last twenty years? Maybe not fifteen years? How goddamn fucking stupid are you people? Talk about goddamn denial. Do you genuinely believe that five billion people would stand idly by while we occupy Saudi Arabia or China? The terrorist attacks would reach holocaust proportions, dumbasses. Your denial is breathtaking. You’ve been made fools of and still cling to your hallucinations.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 6:20 pm

Not to brag, but that is the best of my many stellar posts on this thread.

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
January 1, 2011 6:55 pm

You’re right Smokey, that is the biggest most worthless pile of dog shit you have managed to vomit out. I do admire your way with words. Well, its been fun bashing your skull open all day, but I think we will have to part ways on this for now, our minds are made up, we’ll just have to go see the movie when it comes out. I’ll leave it up to Stuck to decide the victor, as I am giving up first he’ll probably say you, but I don’t really feel beaten…

What say you StuckNinja? How did I do?

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 7:27 pm

Punk——That’s right, you fucking cur. Run away with your tail between your legs. I beat you worse than Mike Vick ever beat his Pit Bulls. I don’t blame you for chickening out. I notice the Administrator is in hiding also, licking his wounds, too embarrassed to come back on this board and take his medicine. I don’t blame either of you for pussying out, after the brutal shellacking you have undergone. Bring your shit anytime and the result will be the same. You will receive a trouncing.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 7:31 pm

By stellar I take it you mean immense….like your ass.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 7:35 pm

Smokey is to words what Sisyphus is to usefulness.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 7:37 pm

Kill Bill—-“By stellar I take it you mean immense….. like your ass.” No. I mean like my dick.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 7:40 pm

No. I mean like my dick. -Smokey

Keep rolling that boulder Sisy.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 7:41 pm

Kill Bill once again trying desperately for relevance on a board that ignores his ignorant remarks. He wants so bad to be a player, but he just doesn’t have what it takes to roll with the big boys.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 7:43 pm

In the words of a wise statesman with the initials R.L.—–I could beat you punks with half my brains tied behind my back.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 7:44 pm

I have strummed you like you strum your untunable guitar Smokey. I have beaten you like a child beats square pegs into round holes. I have made you my TSA employee whose job it is to fondle my junk.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 7:46 pm

I am you master and commander. I am your captain and you are tennile. I make you want to crawl away and die like the sick canine you are.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 7:47 pm

Bwah I have Smokey defeating himself in the vote down quest of 2011

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 8:02 pm

This New Year’s Day beatdown is the worst in the history of TBP. And I did it with remarkable ease. I mean, this beatdown was so bad it made Alabama’s 49-7 thrashing of Michigan State today look like a triple overtime tie. This beatdown I administered today makes Muhammed Ali vs Jerry Quarry look like a split decision. This beatdown is like the New England Patriots versus a middle school girls team. Not that I am proud. It is what it is.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 8:13 pm

Smokey, I have waylayed you like Mike Tyson knocked Trevor Berbick the f out. I beat you like Corey Dillon beat Desiree. Im waiting for you to drive off a Cliff like Junior Seau.

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 8:22 pm

Sorry to join in late. I score it 120 – 110 to Smokey and SSS with style points to the merry trio.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 8:29 pm

llpoh—-Maybe 120 Smokey and SSS to -110 merry trio.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
January 1, 2011 8:33 pm

Kicked off in Smokeys deep dark desperate dank and dirty manhole!

Take that you sodden sucksack.

StuckInNJ
StuckInNJ
January 1, 2011 8:40 pm

“Oh, my. You lost the Dong Feng discussion to my far superior experience with warfare in general and weapons systems in particular, so it’s on to submarines. Sorry, I’m finished” —– SSS

Despite SSS fingering his aegis muscle …………… Admin WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats

——————————————————————————————————————————- –

Punk — luckily you qualify for StuckyRule #4, subparagraph A. A poster may still be declared winner even afterpulling out of the debate if 1) the other poster is so fucking deranged in their views that further debate with such a deluded old fart would result in the poster losing his mind or, 2) I fuckin’ say so.

You passed both qualifications. You have won and overwhelmingly so. Not only are you a nice guy but you are a smart nice guy.

StuckInNJ
StuckInNJ
January 1, 2011 8:47 pm

Kill Bill, I have not forgotten you. You and you alone are left to battle Smokey. Well, not much of a battle is it as you are tearing up his monkey ass. Keep up the good work. Fight, fight, fight. All of your posts will one day be in the TBP Hall of Fame, and Smokey’s in the Hall of Shame. You will win Emmy’s, Oscars, Purple Hearts, and Medals of Honor. All that Smokey can hope for is that they name a mental disease after him.

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 8:48 pm

And Admin and KB add a few body blows. Stuck jumps in from the sidelines. Yes folks, the battle rages. Still looking for that one knockout blow.

All the crap about the Long Dong missiles or whatever not withstanding, a war between the US and China is highly unlikely. Although China would be formidable if all citizens were armed only with slingshots.

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
January 1, 2011 8:50 pm

LLPOH
My complete annihilation of Smokey is right there in black and white. The devastation is undeniable. It was an epic thrashing, one for the record books. Smokey is still curled up in a ball in the corner rocking back and forth muttering to himself.
“I beat him, I beat him, I beat him”
Poor fucker. I was pretty rough on him. His head should stop ringing in a couple days.

Reverse Engineer
Reverse Engineer
January 1, 2011 8:50 pm

The following is part of a longer post I just made in the Top Ten Shitholes thread. Its relevant here of course:

“Over in the China threads, the case has been made that we will “NEVER!” go to war with China because both sides know its Unwinnable. The thing is, in order to maintain the Big Shitties where so many people in both the FSofA and China live, both will be in competition and increasingly desperate for the lifeblood necessary to keep those Shities running, which is OIL. We are not at the point YET where that competition is so keen, and other less necessary uses of Oil will be cut off first, such as the personal use of an automobile amd production of so many of the toys of the modern age. However, the conservation and rationing will only work for so long before in both countries the most critical systems become affected by this. At this point War becomes the only choice, because either way a large percentage of both populations will have to die off, and each place will want the OTHER one to experience most of the Die Off.

Of course it is Unwinnable for both sides, but both sides will be desperate with no other alternative. The War will quickly end the lives of many, and from a certain point of view they will be the lucky ones, because many more on both sides will experience a slower, more painful and tortured exit into the Great Beyond.”

RE

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 8:54 pm

Ok Stuck – you egg on KB and I will prod Smokey. KB, just remember the road to glory is usually paved in blood.

Smokey – KB thinks you are a pussy. Are you gonna just stand there or what?

Stuck – you were obviously influenced by the pictures. Punk danced nicely I admit. But he, as usual, brought a spoon to a knife fight.

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 8:57 pm

Punk – gotta hand it to you. You have a great victory speech. Best if you get a victory before you use it tho.

Your game is improving, I admit. You can actually get off the porch to do a bit of ass sniffing now. Better leave the fighting to others for a while longer tho.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 9:03 pm

And the bipolar maggot StuckInNJ, in a desperate attempt at obtaining a couple more inches of hard cock, appoints himself referee, judge, and jury on TBP. Interesting that Stuck unequivocally supported Smokey’s position early in the thread, but the uncontrollable lust for that younger hot beef injection and exploding sausage cum overwhelmed his rational thinking. I’m Stuck and your schtick is getting REAL old, REAL fast. I’m Stuck, and I’m finished talking to you, EVER.

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 9:15 pm

Punk – please take note of what can happen when the big boys get going, per the recent posts. It can get ugly FAST!

You are starting to develop a nice style – a nice biting humor. You gotta learn the kill shot tho.

And you gotta learn to hide your weaknesses better. I mean, by now we all know you are whipped, like pink (and I don’t mean the good stuff), etc. These can and will be used against you whenever you start to land a few good blows. Gotta figure a way to turn these to your advantage. May be difficult. Think on it while you are sleeping on the couch.

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 9:18 pm

Stuck – I too noticed you originally sided with those of us that are right on this. What gives? The losing arguments surely didn’t sway you. I can only conclude you are trying to rile Smokey. If so it seems to working!

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
January 1, 2011 9:38 pm

LLPOH
Leave the fighting for others, good advice. That’s the sportsmanlike thing to do. I will take the blood in my mouth home as a victory and let the others have their turn. Even broken and wheezing he still poses a threat with his foaming poisonous spittle, even though I have crippled his every argument and thus, his bite.

Stuck
My victory in your eyes means a lot to me. I knew there was a reason I liked you. I tried to step up my game when you piped up, someday I hope to match your comedy.

SSS
SSS
January 1, 2011 9:41 pm

Stuck

I want you to sign on, with your picture appearing, and validate that bullshit you(???) may or may have not posted. If that was actually you, I want you to state unequivocally that you weren’t high. If you do, you’d better be able to explain your 180 degree switch from your initial post..

Something stinks on this thread. This was a fucking rout of Admin and Punk. Even Kill Bill was on board. All of a sudden, not.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 9:48 pm

SSS—-I think you may be right. Stuck was NOT using his avatar. I believe we’ve been had. Someone posed as him a couple of weeks ago, and he caught it and straightened it out.

llpoh
llpoh
January 1, 2011 9:50 pm

SSS – you make a good point. Things are flip flopping like pancakes at the moment.

Punk – a bit of blood in the mouth is fine and a good learning experience. I would worry about the other end if I were you. Your ass could end up as swollen as a bitch in heat’s if you aren’t careful. All the Preparation H in the world wouldn’t soothe those piles if you overstep the mark.

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
January 1, 2011 9:50 pm

Those are weaknesses? You’re right, I guess I do have a lot to learn.

I mean, what was I thinking? Handing you a rubber sword with no cutting power whatsoever, how silly of me to not know that what I was actually doing was creating weaknesses.

Thank you for your wise advice.

Smokey
Smokey
January 1, 2011 9:51 pm

SSS—–Do you think there is much of a chance that Administrator would pull that stunt in a last ditch effort to save face? It could not have been Punk, he’s too stupid to do it.

SSS
SSS
January 1, 2011 10:02 pm

Smokey

Admin didn’t pull that stunt. I have Homeland Security monitoring this site. It didn’t come from his computer. Punk is still under scrutiny, despite his delusional nature.