I say emphatically, “No!!”
Murder is murder …. even if the State does it.
Life in prison without possibility of parole is just as bad. It’s a living death. But, it needs to be done correctly; 23 hours a day alone in a small cell. No amenities such as a TV or books. Just let the evil little bitch sit there and think about things for the rest of her natural life.
I could be talked into exceptions for assholes who hurt children (kidnap, murder, rape, etc.). They probably should die. I know that’s inconsistent as hell.
But I’m OK with Jodi getting life in prison.
she planned it all out, executed it and has no remorse. sort of like a TBP surprise attack except the victim died after the horrible assault.
when you consider whether your son would deserve to be butchered that way by a stalking killer, i don’t think you would be so blase’.
I agree with Stucky as life in prison is certainly not something worth living for nor should the state put people to death either.
What say they let the guilty decide if they want life or pushing the injection button?
Let her fry
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Can’t have it both ways, the death penalty is either ok or it’s not, regardless if the doer is or isn’t an asshole. Besides, using your proper penalty scenario you are counting on a Federal/State institution being able to administer the punishment “correctly”, fat chance of that.
I have no problem with the death penalty whatsoever. The arguments about it being inhuman are crap. Murder/killing is a particularly human activity. Always has been. People for/against it are making a morality call. Those against all play the “inhuman card”, as though that argument is measurable and absolute.
Me, I play the natural justice card. It is natural justice that the penalty fit the crime. I also see no reason why society should fund the costs of incarceration of someone for fifty years. (And bullshit on the arguments re the costs associated with someone on death row – those costs should be slashed.).
That said, I am trending against the death penalty not because I oppose it morally, but because of 1) it is applied based on racial/financial circumstance, rather than fairly across the board, and 2) the number of mistakes that have been made in conviction.
Re Arias, it seems she did it, and she took elaborate precautions to cover it up. Let her swing, then.
Peaceout – the current system is flawed indeed. The old fashioned long-drop technique worked well, and beheading was extremely quick and effective. The public is squeamish is all, and has forced the govt into “humane” processes of execution, which may in fact not be so humane, and are easy to fuck up.
If a person kills another person other than in self defense it is murder. No person has the right to murder another person therefore it is never moral to murder (aggressive killing). If it is immoral for a person to commit murder and not within their rights then said person cannot forfeit or entrust something they dont have to the state. Therefore it is immoral for the state to murder, and killing a restrained person regardless of what they have done is murder.
Legitimizing murder performed by the state must be avoided at all costs.
The Ted Bundys and Jeffrey Dahmers will always exist and are dangerous but it pails in comparison to the danger of a govt who decrees it has a legitimate right to commit murder.
juan
Of course, by asking me to make it a personal issue (MY son!) it then becomes a strictly emotional decision.
I am asking to you (others) to make a logical decision and a moral one.
Logically, murdering the perp does not bring back the victims.
Logically, we all know the death penalty is not a deterrant.
Logically, we know the real reason for the death penalty is revenge, anger, outrage.
Morally, as already stated, murder is murder, even if the State sanctions it. Tell me why it isn’t.
(Contrary to llpoh’s opinion that it’s an “inhumane” issue. The MANNER is which perps are murdered in the USA is actually very humane.)
“Me, I play the natural justice card. It is natural justice that the penalty fit the crime.” — AWD
WHOS natural justice? Mine may be different than yours.
What about the Mooslims cutting off hands even for petty thievery? Is that natural justice? They sure thing so.
Your other reasons are economic. Seems like a slippery slope — on several levels — to let the State become executioner for economic reasons.
It’s nice to see that you are trending against the death penalty. Your reasons, even though not for moral considerations, are extremely valid.
Clarification: By USA’s humane execution I was referring only to the chemical kind.
Electrocution is a Medieval Horror Show.
You just think she has nice tits
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What would Jesus do with Jodi Arias?
Why should taxpayers shell out $30,000 per year to keep her alive? So she can have conjugal visits with her new boyfriend? Who the hell cares? Millions of people will be killed and murdered in the coming societal collapse. If her boyfriend had killed her, I’m sure you’d be singing a different tune.
“Me, I play the natural justice card. It is natural justice that the penalty fit the crime.” — AWD
So we should let her run around on a golf course during a lightning storm? Maybe drop her in a forest fire? Toss her over niagra falls, thrown in shark infested waters? And if she lives then she is innocent, right?
Why should taxpayers shell out $30,000 per year to keep her alive? -llpoh
Because we shell out trillions to keep banksters alive? =)
Kill Bill
You pussy. Don’t you have anything better to do than post inane stupid comments on subjects that nothing to do with you? Did you ever notice nobody ever responds to any of the comments you make? Have you ever noticed you’re completely ignored by one and all around here? Maybe it’s time you give it a rest, go down a few more bottles of geritol, pull your pud a few times (or did the viagra quit working?) and get a life. Everyone here is tired of your shit.
Don’t you have anything better to do than post inane stupid comments on subjects that nothing to do with you? -Llpoh
Arent all the comments on this subject having nothing to do with the commenter [IE You]?
Yeh, thought so.
Harry P – your logic fails. I agree it is immoral to murder – an act of agression. However, your logic progression then makes execution an act of aggression, which I disagree with, as that is an act of punishment and justice. Otherwise, if a person steals, and it is an immoral act, then jailing him for theft would be an act of theft as well, and so would be immoral (stealing from him his freedom). You are trying to make your moral point of view – which is fine and you are entitled to it. But it is not a transitory view – a = b so b = c fails, as a does not equal c. Punishment by the people is in and of itself not an act of aggression.
Stucky – to me, it is just and right someone forfeit their life if they commit murder. Punishment fits the crime and all of that. That is to me justice. I am not suggesting that the murderer’s family be included as well – that would not fit the crime. And re some of my reasons being economic – all societies exist for the benefit of its citizens. I have no moral opposition to the death penalty, and see no reason to incur the cost of incarceration. I do not want to see inncocent people die, and they have. If I am convinced that is not happening, I am happy to rid the world of murderers.
Re the harsh penalties of the Muslims – the western society has some severe crime issues. For me, the root of those issues is that penalties for crimes around the margin (petty theft/graffiti/etc) are 1) too lax, and 2) not implemented quickly and cost-effectively. I think that cutting off hands is counter-productive, as it means the person will surely be a burden on society. I have no real problem with them losing their hands. If you do not steal, you do not get your hand cut off. Probably a bit harsh in my opinion, but again, society is there for the benefit of its citizens. Theft should not be allowed at all, and the punishment needs to be severe in order to protect the interests of society.
Personally, I favor caning – swift, enormously painful, and a huge deterrent. I would use it for many if not most “minor crimes” – DWI, theft, graffitti, etc. I would use it in combo with incarceration for major crimes. Singapore canes, and has almost no crime. Go figure.
Thank God, Llpoh, the self-appointed representative of TBP, hath spoken!
[I think it is a doppel]
Kill Bill – you have been suckered in by a doppler. Get your doppler antenna up, will you. I said nada to you at all.
Already caught it llpoh. Antennas working fine.
Kill Bill – I must say, though, your response to the doppler are drawing my attention – the self appointed crack in particular. I have not fired anything across your bows in probably 2 years. I thought we were generally buddies.
Okay then – guess we are still best buds. Damn dopplers are gonna get it when I catch them ..
llpoh as a boy
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“I’m gonna run a factory some day, by God”
A bullet is one dollar.
Keeping her alive for life is hundred’s of thousands of dollars.
She planned it. Executed it. Got caught.
An eye for an eye.
Can’t taxpayer’s save any money somewhere?
Oh what am I saying. Crazy. Give her an EBT card and let her file for SSDI. If she does not hang, I told my wife she has the green light to shitcan me. Just tell them I talked mean to you and said your meatloaf sucks!
Face it. The only people that have to pay for their crimes are the ugly people. I love the way she nerded herself up.
If this happened 100 years ago, it would cost the taxpayer about 50 cents. Either way, she will cost us 100s, if not millions of dollars now.
llpoh
You’re OK with State sponsored murder as a punishment. You’re OK even with cutting off hands. You’re OK with caning.
You sure you aren’t a mooslim? You would have loved living in Old Testament times … they killed people by stoning them … which I’m sure you’re OK with also.
Restitution and/or Rehabilitation coupled with Compassion and Forgiveness. These concepts are foreign to you?
Even though I haven’t turned on my TV set in years, I knew who you were talking about because I’ve seen snippets of the trial and the media play-by-play everywhere I’ve been in public over the past several weeks. Even though I consciously went out of my way to ignore it.
It bothers me more that she has been made famous than that she committed murder. A murder is committed about two every hours in this country. Her notoriety, however, is a creation of the media. Sex and violence and an attractive female perp…makes a great story and sells advertising
Kill her? She’s the goose that lays the golden eggs. Maybe they can put her in prison for life and turn it into a reality show.
This country is fucked up, folks. Just another case in point.
llpoh,
killing someone who is defenseless is murder, so how is murder under some circumstances and by certain people a moral act?
Are you capable of morally murdering someone? If you don’t have that authority or right, there is nothing to pass on, you can’t entrust it to the govt.
Jailing someone who steals is stupid. A person steals from someone in the community and then the govt steals (thru taxes) from the community so they can pay to keep that person in a cage. That might be what we have today but it is nonetheless idiotic. Punishment does not equal justice. Justice would be the thief being required to make their victim whole by the returning of the property or something of equal value. If a person gets stuck in a cage after stealing then the victim still loses. Punishment is distributed but justice is not served.
I concede a person who commits murder can’t bring back or ever replace the person they murdered, but legitimizing the state’s authority to execute them doesn’t bring back the viticm either but does lead to further tyranny (at this point, even more of it).
Don’t get me wrong, there are horrible people in the pool of the world and chlorine should be added but so good people aren’t corrupted the best solution is for society to embrace taking responsibility for their own safety. If the govt stopped infringing on the right to keep and bear arms and people were armed however they wish the talk of the death penalty would almost vanish because criminals would be killed morally by their victims while defending themselves.
That coupled with the ability to furlough 80% of the non-responders would save a ton of money compared to what we have today.
execute
Harvest the bitches organs for people in need and feed the rest to the turtles.
Btw this will be SOP when i am appointed benevolent dictator of earth.
“State sponsored murder” – what a joke. Again, just the inflammatory language used by anti-execution folks. Punishment meeted out by society is not a crime – is jailing someone state sponsored kidnapping ? Nope. Is fining them state sponsored theft theft? Nope. Is executing them for a heinous crime state sponsored murder? Nope again. It is punishment.
Stoning, hanging, burning at the stake, electrocuting, etc. – all the same result. I would not support those old techniques, nor would I march in the street against them.
Re “Restitution and/or Rehabilitation coupled with Compassion and Forgiveness. These concepts are foreign to you?” Fuck that. Crimes deserve to be punished. Happy to see restitution take place where possible. Rehab? What a joke – rehab sure is working. Why should society incur the cost. Punish and move on. Compassion? What does that have to do with justice? In other words, you are a criminal, committed a terrible crime, but I should show you compassion? Not for me. I save my compasion for those unfortunates in need through no fault of their own. Forgiveness – that is for individuals that have been wronged. I do not think that a justice system has a right to administer forgiveness.
Who’s Jodi Arias? What did she do?
Harry – I largely agree re your point about not jailing thieves. That is why I favor the cane, plus restitution. Restitutuon is not sufficient of itself.
The recivity rate of recipients of capitol punishment is zero. There is no amount of rehabilitation, correction, counseling, compassion and non-capital punishment that can improve on zero recivity. There will be collateral damage but it will be far less than the “collateral damage” done by our government both foreign and domestic.
Actions must have consequences. If not, it is chaos. That is the problem in our society. The punishment does not fit the crime.
Rob a 7-11 go to jail for 20 years.
Rob depositors of their funds, go to jail for, well you don’t.
Look like an ugly black man and stab someone 40 times… Seeya ! Wouldn’t wanna be you.
Stab a boyfriend 40 times,dye your hair and look like a nerd… We will see.
Let the punishment fit the crime.
Take a life. Give a life.
The system is breaking down. It no longer functions with such corruption.
Remember, buy steel trash cans. They make excellent EMP defense devices.
Stig – and here I thought we were on opposite sides of every argument. Sic ’em.
I have to say I am a little disappointed in the visitors here (excluding Stucky), I expected better from the libertarian-minded folk and that you would adhere more to the non-aggression principle. By the comments and the thumbs down on my comments I over-estimated or under-estimated (depending on your perspective).
llpoh,
we are obviously at an impasse, I am not changing you and you aren’t changing my moral compass. you think punishment can deter crime while I think most of the punishment dished out is a crime in of itself.
empowering govt to administer justice or punishment is one of the most insane forms of logic I can think of. they can’t run a post office or the trains. empowering govt only leads to abuse and people who enable this abuse should not be surprised by the perpetual wars of choice, drone strikes and a paramilitary police force. Once govt is sanctioned to commit murder, punishment, restitution or execution (or whatever other word you want to call it) they have a monopoly on the use of violence and no person, innocent or guilty is safe.
over coffee after easter dinner a few weeks back I had a similar conversation with the pops that played almost exactly this way until it ended uncomfortably with me saying this was the first time in my life i was disappointed in one of his positions.
Those who turn swords into plowshares will plow for those who kept their swords,
Harry – I understand your position. One more comment I would make is that I generally care little whether punishment deters further crime. I believe in punishment that suits the crime, and I believe such punishment should reflect society’s intolerance for crime. If it acts as a deterrent, all the better. I believe evil doers should be punished. And punished in a cost effective way.
I do not see punishment as an agression – I see it as a response to aggression. If people do not steal from me, damage my property, assault me or mine, etc., then they have absolutely nothing to fear from me ever.
I believe that libertarians generally are non-aggressive folk that will will however respond mightily when they are actually threatened or injured. They do not go out of their way to be aggressive, but in general they sure as hell know how to defend themselves and believe in so doing. I am not a total pacifist, and know few who are.
May her jail cell be filed with crime scene photos. Wheather she lives a little while or not , who cares. There are plenty of people politios and such who are just as guily as she is and they get to walk around and keep doing it. So who cares.
I just watched Jody Arias say that she would rather be executed than spend the rest of her life in prison. Maybe this is the best reason to grant her a life sentence?
llpoh
About a month ago Ms Freud and I watched a movie called Amish Grace …. it’s available on Netflix … about the Nickel Mine incident …. and the incredible amazing ability of the parents of the dead children to forgive. Quite frankly, I highly doubt I could do that. Intellectual discussion aside, I’m pretty sure I would become the Executioner.
You say “fuck that ” to forgiveness. But, I say it is a most powerful way to live … for those that can do it.
You are like OT Jehovah …. full of wrath and vengance.
I’m like NT Jeebus ….. full of love and forgiveness. lol
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OMG never in my wildest imagination did I think this crap would ever appear on TBP, and to be presented on here by my TBP hero Stucky. Unfortunately in my own house I have been subjected to the images of that crazy post menstrual bitch Nancy Grace shaking in her rage throwing out her vindictive superlatives of disgust over the human trash that is Jodi Arias. My dear woman friend feels so sorry for the poor Mormon boy who used this gal as a sex toy and then dumped her.
Oh the epic tragedy of the listless man drawn to the Jezebel of life. He just didn’t know who he was messing with. The broken hearted Jezebel shed her wrath upon him and a yeah Nancy and her HLN idiots rein in with there morose sense of pity for his mortal indiscretion. What a puke fest.
National news what garbage when people die every day for far more nobler reasons
who?
Stuck – the “fuck that” was meant for the activities of the govt, not of individuals. Forgiveness is for individuals. I agree with you, if a person can live that way, and have peace inside, then it would be a powerful force. It is not me.
But even peace-loving societies would not tolerate vicious criminals in their mix. They would eradicate them somehow if charity and foregiveness failed.
the self appointed crack in particular. I have not fired anything across your bows in probably 2 years. I thought we were generally buddies. -llpoh
We are. My apologieChen is a troll, not a very good one, BTW Chen IS self-appointed.
BTW have you thought about getting a gravatar?
I just watched Jody Arias say that she would rather be executed than spend the rest of her life in prison -Gayle
Thx Gayle. I guess I was a bit premature. =)
Call it a very late term abortion. I am okay with that.
KB – lol! Good stuff.
I really have trouble figuring out who chen/juan/etc are. They need to be horsewhipped.
So, Arias has decided, state laws or not, she wants to die.
So be it., but by her hand.